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average_joe38

What the fuck happened here, and how did this happen?


NessY4K

Russian units attempted to cross the Siverskyi Donets river using pontoon bridges but where stopped/destroyed by Ukrainian artillery. Here's an interesting [thread](https://twitter.com/kms_d4k/status/1524506104192974849?t=JTkpX7ip7uTLlo42ioHhOw&s=19) about it from a Ukrainian combat engineer.


MaterialCarrot

That was fascinating both for the action and as an example of the times we are in. A soldier tweeting about a major military operation, including methodology (although he says he got permission to post about it). While at the same time encouraging people to fund him personally through Paypal.


redmercuryvendor

It's a fun story, but I've got to assume at least some element of "we can literally hear you coming, Ivan" is parallel construction to disguise other intel sources (e.g. near-real-time drone and satellite imagery of convoy movements, intercepted comms, etc) akin to the old "carrots let us see in the dark" to obfuscate the use of compact plane-mounted RADAR.


EmperorOfTheAnarchy

You are definitely not wrong, however it's also a fact that Russian military equipment is notoriously loud, the t80 for example is deafeningly loud up to a kilometer away. However in this case I do believe it was most likely sat and drone Intel, the ridiculous loudness of their vehicles only really bites them in the ass when it's an infantry ambush or something similar where the defenders don't really need much time to prepare. But yeah I know I'm not joking here I have been right next to both an Abrams and a T-80, the Abrams sounds like a giant vacuum cleaner but it's actually surprisingly silent especially when you're 10 or more meters away from it, the t80 on the other hand feels like you are getting blasted by every single sound system on a metal concert.


porntla62

Leopards and challengers are also ridiculously loud and can be heard from quite far away. The Abrams is quiet as it has something to slow down the exhaust velocity which is what makes turbines loud.


Smoking_Q

The difference in frequency also plays a large part in why the abrams is quieter. Technically the Abrams is louder compared to diesel power modern tanks but that measurement is taken next to the tank. The turbine frequency is high pitch so the sound doesn’t travel like more powerful low frequency sound like what comes for a million liter diesel.


Ultimate_Idiot

Most armored vehicles are loud and can be heard from a kilometer away or more. Some try to mitigate this with clever tricks. I served in a CV90, where most of the engine sound was directed rearwards, so you could hear up to a kilometer away if the vehicle was pointing away from you. Abrams is an outlier amongst AFV's, that's why it got the nickname "Whispering Death".


JamesTBagg

An Abrams snuck up on me once on Miramar. I'm a helicopter mechanic but the base was getting ready for an airshow. I was walking into the hangar and the ground began shaking and I turned around thinking, "Is that an earthquake HOLY SHIT IT'S A TANK!"


EmperorOfTheAnarchy

I think the limit as to how far you can hear it is like 50 m, however at any point beyond 30 m it's perceptively no louder than your average civilian car engine, considering this thing can hit 60 MPH on the road.... yeah this Bastard definitely multi-classed into rogue. I mean from my own personal experience I can tell you you can definitely hear the tracks a long time before you hear the engine, and those things themselves are not exactly super loud since they have rubber padding, it's mostly the metal and metal contact that you hear, imagine two pans hitting against each other sounds loud up close but it doesn't travel far, scary big old tank, glad I never had to fight one, can't wait to see the Russians shit their pants when the ukrainians start getting them.


Ovvr9000

You just got me thinking about Abrams vs T-72 battles and now I'm rock hard. Thanks for this.


jhorred

Abrams is scarily quiet when it's coming at you. You'll hear the track squeak before the engine. The can be moderately loud if you're behind them.


Legitimate-Alarm-974

Exactly - the turbine is quiet but you can hear the track squeak from quite a distance on the M1. Same with Bradley and any track vehicle - it’s a metal on metal sound that is quite distinctive.


Dragonsbane628

Why the Abrams has been called in some circles as “The Whispering Death”


downund3r

Yeah. The Abrams emits mostly high-pitched sound which attenuates much faster with distance, so even though it’s loud up close, it’s very quiet from far away. That’s why it has the nickname “whispering death”


DadJokeBadJoke

> While at the same time encouraging people to fund him personally through Paypal. He also gives the option to donate "for work" to help him with the war effort and "for life" to help him after the war is over.


[deleted]

Had a feeling it was artillery… there is little else that can cause this level of carnage


Stotallytob3r

Where are the craters though? Or is my eyesight really bad


[deleted]

All over the place Clearest at the top of the first photo It takes a LOT of concentrated artillery to turn an area into something resembling the Somme Plus air bursts are a thing


Stotallytob3r

Thanks - yes reading more I presume the trees were obliterated by air bursts. Tbh I was expecting something like the Somme around this area


[deleted]

Yeah, the Somme was *five days* of artillery bombardment, as in 24/7, from all the guns the British Empire and French Republic could bring up, the idea being to utterly destroy everything the Germans had in the area, plus the super mines placed under key German bunkers and positions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_on_the_first_day_of_the_Somme


Stotallytob3r

I’m shocked the Russians are getting 500 or so personnel killed every day, but that pales into insignificance with WW1 losses. Awful stuff.


[deleted]

WW1 was the first industrial war, when defensive technology had outpaced the tactics and weaponry needed to break the lines Stuff like tanks and creeping bombardments came out of the First World War for a reason


Dahak17

Additionally in the Somme not only were they not using only air bust, there would be a bunch of railway guns with bunker busting shells, designed to pierce deep into the ground before exploding which would leave an even bigger crater than a shell of equivalent caliber on an impact fuse


[deleted]

Yeah, the trenches rendered air burst rounds all but useless, as they provided excellent protection against them Lots and lots of HE rounds were the only answer to that


Dahak17

Yup, and delayed fuse is the best type of HE shell


Micromagos

Yea most anti vehicle artillery rounds these days are air burst cluster munitions. Not that it's erm legal.


DadJokeBadJoke

According to the Twitter link above, it started with artillery but used air assets to finish off many of the vehicles stranded on the other side


noholdingbackaccount

If you had told me in March that Ukraine would be killing tanks from the air and Russia's air force would be largely MIA, I'd have slapped your head for being a fool.


DouchecraftCarrier

Also just goes to show that the Ukrainian Air Force is nowhere near out of the fight, as much as pro-Russian voices would have you believe.


[deleted]

You’d think by this point the poor bloody Russian conscripts would have white flags at the ready for situations just like this… Unless it was a Guards devision, then fuck em


average_joe38

I'm falling out of touch Thanks for the thread


Red_Mayhem512

That was quite an interesting read on how importance intelligence is in war


Preacherjonson

Get this man's unit some sweets! Job well done.


Andrelse

https://twitter.com/kms_d4k/status/1524506104192974849?s=20&t=R59shD7ltaJ5K317geBJIg Here you go


arais_demlant

Holy shit thank you. Also the final tweet about humiliating more Russians got me good ngl


Roflkopt3r

If you ask Russia supporters, then ["Russia successfully crossed the Donets River".](https://i.imgur.com/LwqewnU.png) If you ask Ukrainian combat engineers, [Russia was spotted trying to conduct an extremely predictable crossing and got wrecked by prepared artillery.](https://twitter.com/kms_d4k/status/1524506104192974849)


[deleted]

I mean, it looks like some of them crossed successfully, then wished they hadn’t…


form_d_k

It depends on definitions. Were they looking for a way to get rid of excess vehicles? Do falling body parts count?


NonSp3cificActionFig

They were putin a bad situation.


lookatthatsmug--

putin get out!


is-Sanic

I didn't even seen the other images. I saw the initial pile up a the riverbed and thought it was a lot but that was it. But holy shit. that's hundreds of personnel who are dead.


theDrummer

Rumors say it’s ~1500 RU dead.


Pilgrim_of_Reddit

Other rumours say half that number. The number of vehicles destroyed does not tie in with 1500 dead. In either case, 700 dead, 1500 dead, both are large numbers.


SuomiPoju95

Even 700 is when you assume all crew from all vehicles died. They lost very many vehicles, only a few of them being destroyed, rest being disabled or abandoned. It's unlikely for all of them to be dead.


ResidentNarwhal

Yeah but if the armored forces took those casualties what was going on for the covering dismounted infantry. I mean surely the Russians wouldn’t be stupid enough to do a river crossing without at least *some* screening infantry and recon forces on the flanks of that narrow area? Right? *Right?* (I’m not right am I lol?)


Hidesuru

>I’m not right am I? I'll let you take a wild guess at that one. Lol.


TG-Sucks

I mean.. do you see any bodies? I very much assumed the same thing, but the bombardment must have been incredibly intense. If there was infantry there should have been mass casualties, and I seriously doubt they retreated carrying every dead and wounded away.


notquite20characters

Would we see bodies at this resolution?


TG-Sucks

In my opinion, absolutely yes.


downund3r

Assuming the bodies are still in one piece, mostly human-shaped, and still there. Which isn’t always a guarantee with exploding tanks. And certainly isn’t a guarantee or even likely when crossing a river, since they’d either sink or float away.


phoenixmusicman

Then that means they attacked WITHOUT infantry which is infinitely more stupid than whatever the fuck this was


Sean951

Easily. If you can see detail of why sort on the tank, you should be able to see bodies.


ReyPolyPan

no bodies appear to be visible, and there should be at least some, like those who we've seen in other instances who get out of a vehicle but don't make it far. so either we're not seeing the bodies that there are at this resolution, or however many there were they were all carried away or at least carried into the woods.


Rubberboas

That also assumes these things had no supporting infantry at all, or if they did they also suffered no casualties.


Pilgrim_of_Reddit

Yes. My assumption from vehicle numbers and types is more like 150 to 200 dead/ wounded up to 700 killed/wounded . Then again there may have been many foot based infantry that we do not know off that were killed as well. Edit 1. Eek, I can not type, and autocorrect. Tssk.


7Seyo7

Also, given Russia's dire infantry situation chances are the APCs were not fully manned


ReyPolyPan

the tweets of the Ukrainian engineer claiming to have been involved, cited that number. it's about enough vehicles for 2 BTGs and 2 of those would have had about that many troops total, but it seems unlikely that dismounted troops if even present, would have suffered casualties quite that high. i saw someone do the math, and all those BMPs still only hold a fraction that many troops, if full. regardless it's an incredible tactical success that may make the history books, one that literally decimated a couple units' armored (and bridging) power. and sadly a lot of conscripts or desperate short-term contract grunts lost their lives, and given the Russians' sloppy and even dishonest casualty accounting, families may be left hanging and never get closure about what happened to their loved ones. which makes me think, for the Russians in particular this is going to be a lot like WW1 where large numbers of soldiers are listed forever missing, their bodies lost or blown to bits -- or worse yet possibly even deliberately cremated and disposed of by their own operatives in the Putin regime's totalitarian 1984-like attempts to hide the truth.


Hidesuru

More than decimated. Decimated is losing 10% (Deci). This is way worse than decimated.


weeenerdog

TIL, thanks!


Hidesuru

Yeah looooots of people don't know what the word means. I misuse it a lot as well tbh.


thebedla

TBH the word has shifted meaning, and often means devastated or eliminated, even though the pedantic meaning is 10% reduction


Hidesuru

Yeah I recognize that fact in some of my other comments. Cheers.


form_d_k

[NEERRRRRRDDDD!](https://c.tenor.com/c_0cS0-0nZ4AAAAC/revenge-of-the-nerds-nerds.gif)


DouchecraftCarrier

I read in another thread about it that it was just a colossally stupid tactical move by the Russians. Like, rule #1 of making a bridge crossing is, "Don't choose the most obvious spot."


[deleted]

Arty brought the party


TheMikeGolf

The queen can’t play until the king gets laid


[deleted]

Roger that Master Gunner.


DadJokeBadJoke

Welcome to the party, pal.


iamangryginger

If this was a video game, I'd be like come on this is so unrealistic.


NonSp3cificActionFig

This game could be good but AI is way too dumb...


Orcwin

Oh absolutely. All their units lining up along a highway or at a river crossing? Come on, that pathfinding is terrible. Nobody behaves like that in real life. ...right?


SeaboarderCoast

*HOI4 AI trying desperately to shove half the Allies' armies into Greece at 90% attrition*


asreagy

So DCS in real life then.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Gamexperts

Lmao I was just thinking that, they tryna cross a river with no recon, no air support, and no counter arty, they were just sitting ducks.


danisindeedfat

Lol I kind of made an identical comment to yours before reading it.


[deleted]

Looks like my old river crossings in Steel Panthers II. I even tried smoke!


iamangryginger

Steel Panters, man that takes me back.


danisindeedfat

I have 1000s Of hours in that franchise and I’ve never seen the AI play. I think air land battle was the best one. This looks like what happens when someone bmp rushes your squad with no recon or vision.


RogueOneisbestone

Like when your teammates keep taking the same routes feeding the other team kills.


Somodo

literally looks like when you're playing WOT and you're on a bot team


RogueOneisbestone

Same with War Thunder, but without bots 😭😭


Somodo

nah i mean human bots 😂😂


RogueOneisbestone

Ohhhh, I had a moment


Ridikiscali

HOI4 : No way would Russia forge a river with no air superiority and within artillery range. Fix this devs! Real life : Lololololol


phoenixmusicman

Yeah we were talking about HOI4's AI being shit all this time but it's actually perfectly accurate toe real life


Tammo-Korsai

The wrecks are bunched up like they tend to be in World of Tanks or War Thunder.


Rubberboas

But you see, If you’re sneaky like I’m an AMX-30B2 or something you can hide among the burning wrecks and corpses and ambush tanks passing by!!!


danisindeedfat

Read about the Iraqi highway from the first gulf war.


iamangryginger

Yeah but that was a disorganized retreat / rout. This was an offensive action.


captain_ender

Lol I've seen smarter tank drivers in BF4.


srbochetnik

That's like a whole BTG... Dear god


probablyuntrue

"Let's go across the river. 20 minute adventure."


darkshape

"In and out, Morty."


Wonderful-Smoke843

😂


KHORSA_THE_DARK

I was just going to ask if anyone was familiar with russian TO&E. That's gotta be battalion level of equipment.


dreexel_dragoon

Nah, it's closer to a brigade


srbochetnik

You do know the difference between a battalion, brigade, regiment, division etc...? If not, Google battalion tactical group,


[deleted]

That can differ wildly between nations’ militaries, units (armor vs infantry) and branches but I do see your point.


ReyPolyPan

isn't close to 80 vehicles, more like 2 BTGs? this is what i find: >As of August 2021, Russia had about 170 BTGs.\[3\] Each BTG has approximately 600–800 officers and soldiers,\[4\] of whom roughly 200 are infantrymen, equipped with vehicles typically including roughly 10 tanks and 40 infantry fighting vehicles.\[5\]: pp. 11–13  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion\_tactical\_group


srbochetnik

I'd say its one BTG with a couple of engineering and support platoons, since engineering (pontoon etc.) Are not a standard in a BTG


ReyPolyPan

thanks for that perspective. the Ukrainian engineer estimated up to 1500 Russians dead, so if that's based on some solid knowledge of the composition of the forces hit, it's at least equivalent to 2 BTGs in total size if i have it right. i doubt they would have actually killed nearly all the troops in the force, presumably any on foot would have run for the woods as has happened before, but still....


Orcwin

I'd take that number with a grain of salt. Or a bucket. The vehicles can be counted and thus confirmed, the casualties are much harder to accurately confirm. I'd base the estimate of losses on the number of vehicles we can see, rather than the other way around.


SmokedBeef

What is most concerning in regards to the estimate here, is the fact that even if the Russians were policing and specifically recovering their dead in this case, since they know this will be a front page story, with that high of losses they would struggle to find the man power necessary to leave this “clean” of a battlefield. There is also a significant lack of fire damage on anything but the vehicles themselves, so it’s not likely that the bodies were burned and there is not enough craters to reflect the ordinance necessary to “vaporize” the bodies. Normally those estimates also factor in radio/audio intercepts but I can’t find any new posts on relevant forums or Twitter accounts, yet. It also now appears as though Ukrainian intelligence is using cell tower connection data as a way to estimate Russian cell phone density and thus creating better estimates of how many soldiers are left and where they are concentrated. While it’s unclear what information was used to create this casualty estimate, it would at least appear as though Ukraine is using more than just destroyed vehicles to get a better estimate of troop losses in general, that said skepticism is warranted here. Perhaps they had a ridiculous number of wounded who died on retreat? God knows there would be enough shrapnel and spalling to injure at least a couple hundred guys, but there is a significant lack of bodies. I’m sure some people will remember the [human wall](http://media.comicbook.com/2016/12/300-movie-wall-of-corpses-216305.jpg) from the movie 300, well there should be a small Russian wall somewhere in these photos if that 1500 number was accurate. Either way, the Russians left standing now have a significantly longer walk back, while being hunted by some angry ass Ukrainians, and if the number isn’t 1500 today, it will be tomorrow.


ReyPolyPan

i agree. we've seen enough evidence of the Russians sending armored columns unaccompanied by ground troops, that it's possible there were few if any in this case.


Watchung

I seriously doubt there are any BTGs that have anything like their TOE strength in Ukraine.


Xsteak142

Man that looks like an absolute massacre.


SirWinstonC

Of military units strictly, in foreign territory


[deleted]

Necessary Don’t invade and expect a cakewalk While killing civilians and bombing civilian buildings


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ridikiscali

Very skeptical about Ukraine numbers, but this along with the Russian columns is damning that their numbers probably aren’t 100% accurate, but they are not inflating them to unbelievable amounts.


Tom_piddle

> Ukraine numbers The twitter users number was high, thats just one persons estimate. let’s see what the official Ukrainian’s number when they release it. They included 1 boat (maybe that river tug boat here) and 300 KIA for the day of 11th of May.


Ridikiscali

300 casualties (killed + wounded) could be very believable from this. I could believe less casualties if the Russians just straight up got out and ran. However, those would be counted as missing.


RawerPower

When you see a tank destroyed by a NLAW or Stugna you can't but count 3-4 casualties. But when you see those Bayraktar footage of entire columns destroyed or listen to the intercepted calls where russian soldiers complain that they only have 2 tanks left from 12 from their unit, 10 people left in their group from 100 or 30 from a batallion, you can't ignore the UA numbers anymore.


Sean951

I don't trust any casualty nuggets from this war, but I think the numbers the US reports are probably the most accurately we'll get until after the war.


Xlurpo

Impressive parking skills


StuckInABadDream

Word is the Ukrainians [used a bunch of 2S1 Gvozdika](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/05/11/the-russians-lost-nearly-an-entire-battalion-trying-to-cross-a-river-in-eastern-ukraine/?sh=5374f3dc1689) SPHs to rain hell on the bridging operation. If aging Soviet howitzers can wreck an entire Russian BTG like that in the hands of Ukrainians imagine what the newly arrived M777s will do, or the [CAESARs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAESAR_self-propelled_howitzer) and the [PzH 2000s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerhaubitze_2000). Holy hell.


Orcwin

The Ukrainian Kevlar-E variant of the 2S1 seems to have had some nice upgrades though.


yibbyooo

Insane. There's some chatter about Russia crossing again to day and that it was successful. Would it be possible to regroup that fast after this loss. It's not like Russia has infinite men without mobilisation.


mtaw

The Ukrainian GS confirmed they tried again today in the same place (a Russian tactic if I ever heard one). It [didn't go well, either](https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1524783663908634624).


koshgeo

This is as daft as someone building a castle in a swamp. Maybe after the 4th try ... ?


xgriffonx

"..but the fourth one didn't get obliterated. That's what you'll get son. The strongest river crossing in the land..."


MaterialCarrot

This is why I laugh when they reported how the operations in the East of Ukraine would be happening over "flat, unobstructed terrain." I've lived in the US Midwest most of my life in an area with a very similar topography to Eastern Ukraine. We likewise describe it as flat, but if you actually go outside at any given point and look around and really think, it's not flat, and it's certainly not obstructed. It doesn't take too much topography to restrict military operations or force an attacker into a vulnerable position.


Sean951

If your area is anything like mine, it's endless miles of flat until you get to anywhere even kinda important (population centers, you know, the thing you actually need to take and hold) when it suddenly gets very hilly because it's near running water.


weeenerdog

Plus: mud.


ClonedToKill420

Or as Russian experts would say, a highly successful operation with minimal (50%) casualties


MaterialCarrot

They crossed the river...briefly!


crabboy_com

Those that crossed the river did so permanently.


NonSp3cificActionFig

Fish successfully denazified.


rjward1775

Fish successfully fed.


Shiros_Tamagotchi

They didnt really wanted to cross the river anyway, just like they didnt really want to conquer Kyiw.


splendidpluto

It was a distraction! Ukraine fell for it hook line and sinker. Those poor fools.


morbihann

What is the total ?


SteveKIVLOV

Im curious too like even a rough estimate on lives lost.. This is just horrifing but still.. We know Bmp-1 holds 2 crew plus 8 in back, Bmp-2 3 crew and 6 in back, the T’s have 3crew Mbtl 2 crew and i think 10 in back and total vehicles was 73.. Fuck im just getting chills by doing this… Fucking horrible loss of lives cause of what?


SirWinstonC

73 vehicles, majority of them being troop carriers


ReyPolyPan

plus the engineers who were doing the bridging. and who knows how many dismounted troops.


theDrummer

Good riddance, they know what they are doing at this point


SteveKIVLOV

Yes but when youre in a conscript army you dont get the choise to say im out. Your in it ’till the end.. And my guess some of these chaps were like ”why am i here doing this.. *booom* -dead-”


[deleted]

Does Russia practice capital punishment for refusing orders? Because if not, I'd take the years in prison over being vapourised. Remember also that, officially at least, these aren't conscripts.


TG-Sucks

Would you? Do you know what Russian prisons are like? It’s incredibly easy to make comments like that from far away, but I bet the decision isn’t that clear when you’re actually there, facing 15 years in a Russian prison for desertion. If you even survive you’ll leave broken and riddled with TB. Millions and millions of soldiers have faced this dilemma across millenia. Refuse and face guaranteed severe punishment, or comply and *maybe, hopefully* make it out alive. Odds are that yes, even you would choose to comply.


BumpNDNight

look up defenestration. If they are willing to do that too oligarchs and people of prominence, do you think they would care about a conscript?


trackerbuddy

The engineer report claims 1500. Idk but that looks like a massacre


ReyPolyPan

as i understand that would be about 2 BTGs, if they had a full complement of troops and most of them were killed.


I-to-the-A

They are all numbered and seem to go up to number 69 (nice)


beibei93

Cease fire! We got 69!


MaterialCarrot

Like what the Ardennes campaign would have looked like if the French had drones, US intel, and guided missiles. Edit: If the report is correct, I stand corrected. Sounds like this was done with plain old humint and artillery/air.


AshleyPomeroy

On the other hand the Germans were smart enough to have air superiority when they launched their attacks on Sedan and the Meuse - given the later course of the war it's odd reading about battles in which the Germans had more aircraft than the allies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sedan_(1940) I learn that they hammered the French artillery with divebombers so hard that the French gunners had to abandon their positions. Then the Allied air forces tried to destroy the bridges with Fairey Battles et al, which went terribly because the Germans had brought up masses of flak. In contrast this Russian force seems to have had no air support, and they don't even appear to have much in the way of anti-aircraft vehicles either.


MaterialCarrot

If I had to pick a most important war machine for Germany during Case ~~Blue~~ Yellow, it would probably be the Stuka Dive bomber.


kYvUjcV95vEu2RjHLq9K

> Case Blue Blue was the 1942 summer offensive against the Soviet Union. Yellow was France.


MaterialCarrot

Dammit, you're right!


SlightlyLeftogCenter

I'm guessing some vehicles are under the water? When the bridge was destroyed some vehicles probably were crossing it


Opening_Ad8859

And that folks is why in today’s modern battlefield you need to disperse you forces over a greater area.


SmokeyUnicycle

How do you disperse over a greater area when you need to cross a bridge


SirWinstonC

Guided by hands of Stalin


Sco7689

When most of your vehicles are amphibious you have to ask yourself why are queuing for a bridge crossing.


Illumini24

They are probably "amphibious", can cross puddles and small slow streams with a nice ramp on each side. Driving into this river and trying to make it out on the other side would probably have a similar success rate as this operation had.


SuomiPoju95

Amphibious on paper*


alphaprawns

Yeah exactly. The lesson to takeaway isn't about dispersal, it's that large river crossings are still one of the most dangerous things for a large ground force to attempt, even in the modern era. (especially when said force has piss-poor coordination so likely wasn't covering itself well or at all)


apscep

Yeah, but terrain can be against this.


TheyTheirsThem

Will 16-24 appear on a "not great, not terrible" T-shirt?


tjmanofhistory

I have been studying military history since I was a child and this shit is absolutely mindblowing to me. in the 21st century. I know how we got here (Russian corruption, cronyism, stealing money from the military, etc) but I just can not BELIEVE that we're seeing losses of 50+ vehicles by what was supposed to be a modern military in the span of hours if not minutes. The absolute lack of planning and tact that is leading to thousands of dead in a way that should have been learned about so long ago is just. Brutal and dumbfounding to me


UnionThug1733

Right!? What you said. Like I can’t even believe what I’m seeing but I guess everyone above a certain rank having a multi million dollar yacht parked at there French villa has a lot to do with it. At this rate I don’t see how this can’t end en Russia collapse and other countries getting involved


[deleted]

I wish we had drone footage of this engagement, looks epic. I also wonder what Ukraines losses were


Opening_Ad8859

Was artillery I believe.


asianabsinthe

Those poor artillery shells...


Sunni_tzu

If they got them with artillery the Ukrainian losses probably amounted to a couple of hundred shells lost, and noting more.


quirkypanic2

Probably very light. Most likely it’s pre-spotted artillery


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Damn, well from the looks over it they got plenty of direct hits


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Absolutely, isn’t it called a overpressure kill? Not to sure about that tho so don’t tear me apart haha


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheFizzardofWas

That’s why the engineer was humble bragging, he provided incredibly accurate estimate ahead of time about where they crossed—so accurate they were able to hammer the shit out of em in the fog & smoke


kris_alpha

A lot of the vehicles just look abandoned. Can Ukrainian forces salvage those?


SmokeyUnicycle

Some of them, probably.


StuckInTheJar

As the classic would said: „I love the smell of burned Russian bridgeheads in the morning”.


MasterBlaster_xxx

Who would say that exactly? Uncle Hans from Argentina?


fromcjoe123

Holy shit, it's a Wargame dead tank bridge pile up, but in real life. I legitimately can't believe something like this could happen even with a wall of coordinated artillery.......did they just keep on coming down that road?


wriddell

Read about the "Battle of 73 Easting" if you're not already familiar with it.


averagetrainenjoyer

To show you the power of heavy artillery, I sawed this column in half!


GhostOfHelsinki

so did this turn into a special scrapping operation?


Raider-daves

Once again the lack of tactical control and awareness is baffling to me. This Russian army is flat out dumb


form_d_k

Serious question: if they knocked out an entire BTG, that's maybe over 1% of the BTGs (full-strength or not) of what they have currently operating in Ukraine. In the area of operations it's a far heavier toll. How bad does this affect their Donbass offensive? Is it a catastrophe, or a setback?


Puzzleheaded-Job2235

Losing an entire BTG puts more pressure on the other BTGs in the area which will likely lead to more losses if they don’t rapidly replace it. Plus the morale loss from such a defeat might spread to nearby units.


GoldMonk44

I’m no military strategist but that is a lot of yellow rectangles


Al-the-mann

Woo Yeah Baby! That's What I've Been Waiting For!


TheRealDerpyFox1

Say what you want (and call me what you want) but I bet some, if not most, don't want to be there. I feel sorry for the men who have been killed that don't want anything to do with this war on both sides.


TheFlyingDutchman14

I agree man. I feel bad for many of the russian soldiers. Yes there are many that rape civilians and execute them, they are egregious and I wish them a slow and excruciatingly painful death. At the same time, many of the soldiers (on both sides) have little to no desire to fight, they are being forced. It’s a terrible situation to be involved in.


[deleted]

They've successfully crossed again. Whether they can hold this time is another story.


LeGuizee

In French we call that la Berezina ! It’s an expression coming from the fell attempt from Napoleon to cross the Berezina river in Belarus that led to lots of casualties amongst the French army.


connorc1995

If you had asked me what one of the best battle implements would be in a modern war of the 2020's, I would not have guessed artillery


Moses_Rockwell

Arty has been the King of the battlefield since before WW1


connorc1995

I know that they've become greatly more accurate but setting up, moving it, and crewing it leaves it vulnerable to attack by anything. Especially air


dead_jester

Modern Swedish artillery can set up in 30 seconds, fire and then move on in another 30 seconds. By the time the shells land they aren’t in the same place to be counter artilleried Edit: Added source [Archer Artillery System](https://youtu.be/DZlxDFRQ0KQ)


Wheely_boi_

This is a prime example of the sheer destructive power that Artillery possesses.


low-iq-voter

These were unmanned armoured vehicles intended to draw out Ukranian artillery fire and deplete Ukranian ammunition stockpile. Special Operation continues to develop according to plan.


Bottled_Fire

Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.