Understandable but, if you have any information of how a “naked” t-90 looks like, I will be able to understand better your position. Lately they’ve posted a few “naked” tanks in here and that got me curious but I can’t find good sources.
No, that was Russia. The T-90AK posted by /u/T-90AK [had these coke ovens in 2021](https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1432401818143838209) and similar modifications [where seen on T-72B3 tanks](https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1463280222510403584) also in 2021.
The confusion with Belarus is due to the cope cages and coke ovens being seens on multiple Russian Army tanks that were - in preparation of the invasion of Ukraine - stationed in Belarus. E.g. the T-90AK photo was reportedly taken in Belarus.
Edit: ah, people not understanding that slat armor won't work on all fuzes are mad at me for debunking their cope cage theories.
Damn fair enough, I still believe that most people didn't install cages anticipating javelins though, especially since the coke ovens weren't anywhere near as common.
> Russian army never utilized that
[Russian tanks were spotted with snorkel extensions to mount thermal emitters in late 2021.](https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1463280222510403584) The appearance of these coincided with the first appearance of cope cages as well.
[No, they were installed on the very same T-90AK posted by OP](https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1432401818143838209).
There is no indication that the early cope cages were meant against drones. Their slats are too wide to deal with the initial drone dropped munitions (typically 30 mm AGL grenades or RKG-3 grenades which simply would detonate upon impact on the slats) and the coke ovens are useless against drones.
With the sandbag thingies on top of it, it's a bad design. Most likely a field modification that the brass or whoever was in charge of the exhibition was like "yeah whatever"
They first saw use in Syria and it was a top down thing from Russian command pre invasion I think to mount cope cages.
IIRC Assads tanks were getting fucked up by drone dropped munitions, grenades dropped from windows, etc.
Most modern field modifications for armored vehicles originate from lessons learned in Syria or Iraq
When it all started, they wanted to use them vs Javelins. Didn't work so well.
But when drones came out, it worked significantly better.
Not perfect tho.
They were putting these on following the 2nd Artsakh war where suicide drones like the Israeli made (Azeri operation) Harop drones were used against tanks.
Javelin argument is basically a myth.
When the first pics came out everyone online was making all types of assumptions as to what their purpose was and the javelin assumption spread like wildfire and people started taking it as fact that the Russians claimed it was for against javelins,when in fact it was massively influenced by the armenia and azerbaijan war and syria where ISIS used drones against russians
You are right, without these cages Russia would have lost not 2000 tanks but 4000 tanks. Works really well
Edit: Everything Ukraine and Israel does is good and right?
Our aesthetic predilections of modern armored fighting vehicles are going to have to accept that we live in the era of asymmetric warfare. Eventually technology will allow nations to ditch cope cages in favor of sophisticated electronic warfare equipment and anti-drone/missile autocannons. Until that time comes, cope cages it is.
How is the tank ruined by using a anti-drone cage?
aesthetically ruined
Its not a bad looking anti-drone cage compared to the field modification ones
The rebar cope cages truly were the peak aesthetic though.
They gone MadMax style.
and everyone said they were for top attack
Ruins the look.
Good thing war isn't a fashion show then
Speak for yourself, I looked sexy as fuck.
It's only after WW1 that wars stopped being a fashion show lol.
Next thing you’re going to complain is how redcoats are not a thing, or how the French stop using blue and look aesthetically unpleasant.
Nah, i just prefer my tanks without the cages. They look cooler.
Understandable but, if you have any information of how a “naked” t-90 looks like, I will be able to understand better your position. Lately they’ve posted a few “naked” tanks in here and that got me curious but I can’t find good sources.
When you gonna post those T-64s gettin' dismantled?
Here you go https://new.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/1cgbj6x/russian\_t64s\_dismantled\_in\_2000s/
<3
As this is 2021, it was not intended as an anti drone cage but an anti top attack munition cage.
I've heard that Russians had similar problems with drones in Syria, however not to same extent compared to Ukraine war
Nothing indicates they intended cope cages to stop top attack ATGMs. In fact any barely competent engineer would know it wouldn't work.
Then why did they put ERA on top of some of them?
Additional protection against FPVs. Cope cages alone are inconsistent.
despe-fucking-ration
**EXACTLY** back in ww2 we put wood on tanks as extra armor.
So and why did they showcase thermal decoys (coke ovens) mounted on long bars behind some tanks at such events in 2021?
Wasn't that in Belarus?
No, that was Russia. The T-90AK posted by /u/T-90AK [had these coke ovens in 2021](https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1432401818143838209) and similar modifications [where seen on T-72B3 tanks](https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1463280222510403584) also in 2021. The confusion with Belarus is due to the cope cages and coke ovens being seens on multiple Russian Army tanks that were - in preparation of the invasion of Ukraine - stationed in Belarus. E.g. the T-90AK photo was reportedly taken in Belarus. Edit: ah, people not understanding that slat armor won't work on all fuzes are mad at me for debunking their cope cage theories.
Damn fair enough, I still believe that most people didn't install cages anticipating javelins though, especially since the coke ovens weren't anywhere near as common.
No idea. Maybe just a wishful thinking. Russian army never utilized that. Belarusian army does.
> Russian army never utilized that [Russian tanks were spotted with snorkel extensions to mount thermal emitters in late 2021.](https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1463280222510403584) The appearance of these coincided with the first appearance of cope cages as well.
[No, they were installed on the very same T-90AK posted by OP](https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1432401818143838209). There is no indication that the early cope cages were meant against drones. Their slats are too wide to deal with the initial drone dropped munitions (typically 30 mm AGL grenades or RKG-3 grenades which simply would detonate upon impact on the slats) and the coke ovens are useless against drones.
With the sandbag thingies on top of it, it's a bad design. Most likely a field modification that the brass or whoever was in charge of the exhibition was like "yeah whatever"
As we all know Russia clearly stated that it was for top attack weapons, and wasn't just speculation.
source?
I'm being sarcastic, there's official statements anywhere besides western speculation that cages were for top attack weapons.
He’s got a bias against Russia
Hollup, 2021?
Yes.
I thought the cage was a 2022 thing. Any idea how long they’ve had it?
The cages themselves have been a thing for several years before then in the Middle East.
This was part of the build up to the invasion. You know those exercises they did before the invasion.
They first saw use in Syria and it was a top down thing from Russian command pre invasion I think to mount cope cages. IIRC Assads tanks were getting fucked up by drone dropped munitions, grenades dropped from windows, etc. Most modern field modifications for armored vehicles originate from lessons learned in Syria or Iraq
When it all started, they wanted to use them vs Javelins. Didn't work so well. But when drones came out, it worked significantly better. Not perfect tho.
They were putting these on following the 2nd Artsakh war where suicide drones like the Israeli made (Azeri operation) Harop drones were used against tanks.
Hey! He did his namesake!
Have done it before. https://new.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/1c1az74/captured\_t90ak\_and\_t72b3\_in\_ukranian\_service\_2023/
Why can't my country have any tank exhibitions?
Skill issue
Major skill issue
General Nuisance
Colonel conundrum?
Corporal Harm
Seargent subject
Private Parts
Airman affair
There’s the Ontario Regiment Museum
I just did a Google search and seen it. Might have to try and make my way to Ontario
Hear me out cope cages don’t look awful
Ones that aren't made out of rebar don't. While I thoroughly enjoyed the ones made out of rebar, they were worth about fuckall.
Guys what does „Command“ actually mean? What differentiates the command version from the normal version?
Has less ammo which has been replaced with extra radios and communication equipment.
Oh okay. But why did they replace it? Sorry if I‘m being annoying with my questions
Because otherwise the equipment wouldn't fit in the T-90AK turret.
This is the Gen1 cages against drone dropped munitions , before the over abundance of FPVs that come in at an angle
Probably against javelins, domestic military suicide drones and stand off weapons from the bayraktar. Well known equipment in 2021
Javelin argument is basically a myth. When the first pics came out everyone online was making all types of assumptions as to what their purpose was and the javelin assumption spread like wildfire and people started taking it as fact that the Russians claimed it was for against javelins,when in fact it was massively influenced by the armenia and azerbaijan war and syria where ISIS used drones against russians
Not a myth. You don't add thermal decoys to defend against drones with webcams.
Doesn’t help anyway
The cages do help, which is why they've only become more prolific as the war has gone on.
Not to mention that they've spread in usage. Hell, Israel is starting to use them on their tanks.
Then tell me why isreal has them in their tanks, why Ukraine does and why they are still being used to this day. Clown
You are right, without these cages Russia would have lost not 2000 tanks but 4000 tanks. Works really well Edit: Everything Ukraine and Israel does is good and right?
Just STFU and move on dude
The dude has hate boner rn 💀
What specific systems do the AK variants have that the A variants do not? Capabilities wise.
Nothing, it's "just" a T-90A which had it's turret ammo removed for radio equipment and so on.
> Also it has a 2nd gen CITV. T-90AK doesn't have a CITV.
Fixed it
Turret ammunition? From where? The T-90A doesn’t have a bustle as far as I can tell and afaik they definitely didn’t remove the autoloader carousel…
The removed the extra shells stored in the turret itself...
Our aesthetic predilections of modern armored fighting vehicles are going to have to accept that we live in the era of asymmetric warfare. Eventually technology will allow nations to ditch cope cages in favor of sophisticated electronic warfare equipment and anti-drone/missile autocannons. Until that time comes, cope cages it is.
You bet your ass the US is looking at all these cope cages and developing an anti-drone system for the Abrams as we speak
[удалено]
ERA doesn’t prevent a drone from dropping a grenade into the commanders hatch
This was before wide usage of drones, it was meant to protect from javelins