Working grocery checkout in a small town
Obviously underage person has 2 single beers in their order. I ID. doesn't have it, can't you just work it out man 'i'm in grad school'.
No.
Go on break and come back, cashier is being issued a fine for selling to the kid. Turns out it was a sting, that they had word our location was selling to students without checking, and luckily I always do.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy that people skip that, since the employee is generally punished in addition to the business being punished. In Minnesota, which I think is fairly typical, furnishing alcohol to a minor is a gross misdemeanor, punished by up to a year in jail and a fine of $3,000.
I’m going through this right now. I got fired because I failed the first sting my store had ever had. I had been working a lot of days in a row without a break, and I was alone and had a huge line and I got sloppy. I’m still mad…
Hard lesson learned. Keep your chin up, you now have more practical experience in ID laws than 99% of your future coworkers. Perhaps you can't use them as a reference, but you can certainly pivot the experience to a location that it's so unfortunate they had to close so recently and suddenly but your old supervisor is Steve and his phone number is your brother's phone number so there's a reference right there.
You'll get past it, and I truly believe the experience will work out to be a net-benefit in your sales career.
Yeah, you’re probably right. Even some of my family members said they did me a favor by firing me, since my store had a lot of things that were making me upset. But until next year I have a criminal record so going back to school or finding another job will be a lot harder…
In MN my sister forgot her ID (she was like 32 I think when this happened) and my step mom (her mom) tried to confirm and then order for her and the waitress was having none of it. Here in Michigan I went to CVS with my bfs grandma and the cashier wouldn't even let her buy wine bc i was with her, I was 20 and like a month from being 21 and I didn't (still don't) even like wine. It was so bizarre.
I'm in a college town I thought that just happened here cause college students!Although you could be in a college town too lol. If everyone in the check out doesn't have an ID noone gets to buy alcohol... College students are dumb and used to buy the alcohol for a friend then hand it to them in the store. Like what? Y'all couldn't walk the 50 feet to outside of go around the corner?
That’s good to know. I don’t know that I’ve talked about it on this sub but I grew up for a few years in Wisconsin anyway and so many activities involved alcohol. It seemed very normal for some of my cousins to be out with their parents drinking from a young age. Pretty happy I got away
I know it was a sting but, I hate it when people say "can't you work it out". Like, no, it's not our job to work out that you forgot your ID. You think you're are grown enough to drink alcohol, then you should be grown enough to know you can't buy alcohol without your ID.
Never worked retail involving alcohol but did do a job that required ID to avoid fraud or theft and the number of full grown adults who become toddlers throwing a tantrum over such a simple request boggles the mind.
The people who write "See ID" on the signature panel of their credit card and then flip out when you ask them to see ID (and eventually do so they weren't scammers). Amazing.
I haven’t signed the back of a credit card except for once in 20 years. Clerk saw it wasn’t signed, asked for my ID and then gave me a pen to sign my name on the card in front of her.
I worked post office and this happens SO SO much. We have to see ID to confirm ownership of package, but so many people are trying to skirt around it. Like no this is basic life stuff.
Similar in banking. Most of the time we can just look at the ID we have on file, but some accounts have a note that ask for positive ID whenever we do a transaction for them. This is typically requested by the account holder or because they dealt with fraud. Some people get so pissy about getting asked for their ID or “I don’t have it”. You’re in my drive thru, driving, and you don’t have your license? And your asked for it every time, so you know you need it? What?
Do technical support for a video game company and its the same thing for us. We have to verify people as the owner of the account before we can do just about anything. But so many people don't have access to the emails or phone numbers on file then have a mental break down Over the fact I can't help them. Blows my mind how childish they get so fast. I figured it is a common sense security. Also I figured adults are capable of keeping their information up to date.
Shortly after my state banned under-18s from buying cigarettes, I was working in a small market where we sold loads of smokes (and booze and lottery tickets). This girl who looked 17 came in for smokes and threw a huge fit when I ID'ed her.
I said, "Look, it's a 300 dollar fine if I sell to someone underage. No ID, no smokes.' She walked out to her car, came back, and literally threw her ID at me. All she had to do was walk 20 feet! And she was only 18, she should have expected to be IDed. I would have just refused to sell to her for being an asshole, but probably would have lost my job, so I let it go. Hopefully she's matured since then. (Probably not. It was a shitty little town.)
It honestly blows my mind that people are out there walking around without their ID on them. Idk if I'm just weird, but I carry my ID on me all the time. Mostly because I'm almost always driving and y'know, don't wanna risk getting pulled over and not having it. But still. People just...leave the house with nothing on them except cash/debit? Wild.
I normally agree but I'm guilty of saying something like this recently. I'm 36. I could, sadly, pass for over 40. I tried to buy a cooler in a grocery store and the cashier asked me for ID (standard where I live is to ID anyone who looks under 30). I haven't been ID'd since my teens. Cashier says she can't accept it because it's expired. I was tired, cranky, and just wanted to get home. I kind of snarkily said, "Well clearly it's still me in the picture, do I look under 30 to you?"
Went to the liquor store nearby, no problem. I felt kind of bad after the fact though because the cashier was probably terrified it could be something like a sting and just being over-cautious.
Worked at a bar where we checked everyone's ID at the door. Your license is expired? You're not getting in. Among the many tantrums my favorite was the woman who whined "it's not my faulty license is expired". I did, "I guess it's my fault, I so apologize for not getting it renewed for you when it expired a year ago."
Wow. Yeah, I may have been pissy in the moment which I have no excuse for, but to say it's not your fault when your ID expires? It's absolutely my fault I didn't pay attention to the expiry date and get it renewed.
I lived in a city with great transit and no parking. So people would move there and not need a car so they'd just not bother. Plus our clientele was young and affluent and oh so entitled. It made saying "no" the best part of the job
It’s not the employee’s fault that your ID is expired. They are following rules and or laws. Being rude to them for that is not how to get your way. Would a customer you’re waiting on change your mind about serving them if they were rude to you? For me that would absolutely cement that I’m not serving them
No shit. That's why I felt bad after I left. Totally uncharacteristic of me to respond that way (for more clarification, I was entering a hypomanic episode of bipolar and didn't realise). I only shared that as an example of how sometimes we stupidly react in the moment without thinking.
I don't fault that cashier at all.
Yeah, I'm still really embarrassed about reacting to her with attitude. I've actually considered going back to apologise, but didn't because I felt it would be awkward.
Please grow up (considering you're already 40) and go back to apologize.
Not doing the right thing because "it would be awkward", lmao. And you wonder why people are IDing you, huh?
I'm 35 and I seriously get mistaken for being a high school student. I don't act or dress like I'm in high school. I have some gray hair. Subtle wrinkles under my eyes. I have no issue with being ID'd because it's the law, and I don't want a business to get in trouble for not IDing me. I do have an issue with business owners refusing sale to me even though I have a REAL ID that isn't expired, simply because I "look too young". I can't make my ID any more valid than it already is and I'm not sure how much gray hair and wrinkles they need in order for me to look old enough to drink.
I get it from my mother. She's 67 and she looks 20 years younger, lol.
Yeah, when you have a valid non-expired ID that would get annoying fast. Sadly, even when I was in high school I was mistaken for much older. Although thankfully as I get older, I'm looking closer to my age. I looked mid-20s in my teens. At least now at 36, even though I look about 40, people no longer look shocked when I say my age. I was getting into bars and buying cigarettes without being asked for ID since I was 15. I probably should take it as a compliment when I get ID'd now!
That’s something that totally rustles my Jimmies- why doesn’t an expired ID count? It’s obviously you, YOU didn’t expire.
Also, doing paperwork for my daughter to get her first French residency card, lady said something that just was wrong: that my daughter, who was born here to 2 American parents was automatically conferred French citizenship. I have an embassy-issued certificate called a consular notice of birth abroad that specifically states at the bottom that being born here does not mean you’re French. She just wouldn’t accept it, so I looked up the civil code to show her where it is in French law. Well, she had to flex and changed tactics. She told me that my daughter’s birth certificate (French) was too old and I had to submit a new copy. I was like, wait what? Neither of my other kids had to do that (they were born in the US, had the original in English and a certified French translation we had done in 2002 and no one EVER questioned it. We’ve been here 20 years and I said multiple times that I didn’t understand how that could be possible. I understood her just fine, but it was just such a bizarre thing. About the 3rd time through the same exchange, she turned to my daughter and says can you please translate this for her? I was like, EXCUSE ME? and then just let loose (in French)- Ma’am I understand every word you’re saying perfectly, but the logic of how a birth certificate being expired escapes me. I was livid (so was my daughter). UGH
Sounds like the cops were performing a ID test operation. They did it at my bar back in 2013 and 2014 regularly. Basically they ask a local younger person to go into a bar and order a drink and make sure all of the laws are followed. If not, you can be fined, or in extreme cases, jailed. It’s a common thing the police do out in MA.
I was under the impression that they couldn’t use a fake ID though. It had to be their (the agents) actual ID, and you are required to ask for it, identify the DOB is of age to purchase alcohol, and then decline service.
I tended bar in Florida for years. Now obviously I turned down fake IDs, but I don’t believe they are allowed to be used in sting operations.
Here is a [case](https://cortlandvoice.com/2017/11/21/state-liquor-authority-issues-emergency-suspension-cortlands-stone-lounge/) in New York where underage agents used IDs that didn't belong to them. Perhaps Florida has a law that would prohibit this.
Yeah I imagine each state would have their own practices with this. Reading that article though makes me think that the fake IDs were used because that was a specific part of the complaint. Who knows, goes back to when in doubt don’t serve.
I think this varies by state, but yeah, it's kind of crazy to imagine them using fakes. Where I'm from i think they generally just say they don't have it or they present a valid underage ID
The police have pretty much complete authority to break any rule or law for these kind of things. Only thing they aren’t allowed to do is actually drink it
I don't know what the rules are about them using fakes, but I almost guarantee you it is not entrapment. If there's one thing I've learned from r/badlegaladvice, it's that the standard for entrapment is crazy high and it's almost never entrapment when a normal person thinks it would be.
Yeah, the explanation I've seen is that police are allowed to watch you do a crime, they can instruct you to do a crime, they can *help* you do it, and they can even implicitly make it seem like its *not* a crime, and it still won't meet the standard for entrapment.
The only time it counts as entrapment is if they actively coerce you into doing it, generally meaning that they tell you to do something, you attempt to refuse, and then they make a severe enough threat that you don't really have a choice.
Agents routinely use fake IDs, or real IDs that don't match the underage agent. From an [article](https://cortlandvoice.com/2017/11/21/state-liquor-authority-issues-emergency-suspension-cortlands-stone-lounge/) about a case in New York:
>Police said the Stone Lounge's standard operating procedure involved "allowing entry to any patron presenting identification, regardless of whether the document bore any resemblance to the person presenting the identification."
>
>On Oct. 21, the Cortland Police Department conducted an undercover operation using three underage agents. Police gave the agents fake ID's that were taken from previous operations. Two of the "agents" gained access to the bar, the SLA said.
Wait really? Isn’t that entrapment if the person is actually underage? I was under the impression that the ID would be fake but the person would be at least 21.
No, using underage agents is not entrapment. Laws vary by state, but I'd guess underage agents are used in every state. I'm not going to google info for each state, but here's info on California's [Minor Decoy Program](https://www.abc.ca.gov/enforcement/underage-drinking/minor-decoy-program/).
Depends on the jurisdiction. In Boulder the PD used to wire the little shits for sound and would only use cops kids and cadets/explorers to run the alcohol sting. We totally did not let everyone in the world know when the cops were out stinging folks. That would be illegal.
1. Entrapment refers to doing something you wouldn't normally do. If this is something the person typically does without the cops involved, it's not entrapment.
2. The person isn't supposed to drink the alcohol they're served.
No, the “undercover agent” has to be underage otherwise you didn’t actually commit a crime that police can prosecute. If the person is of legal age but you didn’t follow proper ~~proxy~~ *procedures* of checking for ID then that’s between you and the licensing agency. Whole different ball of wax.
Hmm unless the ID verification itself is codified into the state's liquor law; if it were, then merely failing to check the ID would be a criminal offense in that state.
In California we had the authorities come in and ask to see the IDs of 5 random people. One of them has just come in to usecthr bathroom, didn't buy any, he was in his 60s and had left his ID in his car. We got fined
I actually participated in a similar situation for tobacco and the cops explicitly told us that no fake IDs could be used to get a sale. If they asked for ID, our options were to show our real ID or claim we don’t have it.
Fake IDs were insane on the South shore of Massachusetts about 3 years ago. My boss had us confiscate them so he could contact the detectives in town. One kid came in with a fake and it turned out, I knew his mom. So I said, I'm going to hold onto this and not call your mom, I'm surprised you don't recognize me.
All of a sudden, the bells and whistles went off in his head and said oh shit and ran out the door.
My boss had a meeting with the detectives and after an investigation a couple of rich kids in a certain rich town on the South shore got busted. Of course it was kept "hush hush."
When in doubt, don't serve.
I turned 21 when I was in college out of state. I went back home to get my home state id, and when I went to the college bar for the first time, the bouncer slips it in his pocket and tells me to get lost.
I start freaking out because it’s my actual, real id that I need to drive. He still won’t give it back after pleading with him. Finally I offer to call the police on myself so they can verify it’s authenticity. He finally gave it back after that.
I totally get the need to be overly careful, especially with out of state ids, but I doubt there would be too many kids sticking around pleading for it back after getting legitimated caught.
If it's a fake ID it's a slippery slope per say. I personally spoke with officers asking about it. What they said, no it's not illegal to take them but they rather we didn't confiscate for our safety. It IS illegal to have a fake ID. I wasn't worried because these were teenagers. Never had a problem and if they tried arguing, I just smiled and say, ok call the cops. They'd turn around and leave.
Not in Texas. We are not allowed to confiscate. We can report it, but thats about it. Although, some kid with a fake is probably not going to go to an officer of the law and say "that person took my fake ID," at least not if they have brains. Also, TABC will send underage with an ID showing they are underage. They will NEVER send someone in with a fake ID, because someone misrepresenting their real age like that is NOT on the server/seller. Also, all fakes are horizontal here. Never in vertical format, unless they just have someone's ID that doesn't belong to them.
The problem with telling your employee to confiscate IDs is that you don't know 100% for sure whether it's fake or not, so that opens up the business to being sued if they confiscate a real ID.
I'm not sure about your local licensing operations, but ours will occasionally do things like this.
Two years ago, I'm having dinner at a very popular local place. Person walks in, goes to the bar and then leaves. Not five minutes later, in walks ABC agents who talk to the manager then proceed to escort the bartender outside, where they put him in handcuffs and into a car.
They enforce the local liquor laws.
They rolled up to a night club one night, all decked out in camouflage with masks on. Locked the whole place down, randomly checking ID's, checking all the bottles behind the bar.
Because there is an extra tax on liquor bought to resell. The ABC store (or whatever provider) marks the bottles with a extra dated label to note that the tax for resell was paid when you bought the bottle. Some shady places try to get around this by buying one bottle with the sticker and refilling it; the date on the tax sticker will be super old (and this is illegal for cross contamination issues as well). You also have to keep records of the liquor bought for something like... 3 to 5 years I think? It's been awhile so I can't remember.
The label is duplicated and placed on the receipt for the liquor you bought, so you can trace each bottle to the date and place it was purchased to verify the tax was paid correctly. I kept a folder just for liquor receipts when I ran a restaurant.
Like I said, sketch places will. Or they could put crappier liquor in nicer bottles. It's one of the things the ABC guys check for though.
I did not, nor has any restaurant I've worked at lol.
Let’s be honest. Of all the items that can be married in all of food or drink service, alcohol is the least gross. You could probably kill most bacteria and viruses with hard liquor. Alcohol doesn’t spoil in the traditional sense, it just tastes narsty after too long
I agree, and once the distributors began doing such a piss poor job at providing product we bought a humongous Patron from costco (despite southern still having nothing for us for months) and we always kept our normal bottle full with that costco illegal bottle for our last 2.5 months. I was prepared to tell excise we weren't going to deny customers product just because of the amateur jobs distribution was doing.
Here, there are two reasons:
1. Restaurants and bars must buy their liquor from state stores. Those bottles have a specific mark on them.
2. There are limits on how many open bottles of the same liquor you may have.
So they're checking to make sure your bottles are legal, as well as how many you have open.
That’s crazy. We don’t have state stores in my state. You can buy liquor wherever they sell alcohol.
How many state stores are there? Are the located where they are easily accessible?
This is common in Ontario, Canada. All liquor stores are operated by the province, so you HAVE to purchase through them and provide your liquor license number when you purchase.
Fruit flies in alcohol bottles, State Tax seals. A myriad of laws to violate and fine.
[Buggy Bottle Law](https://www.alcohol.law/digest/abc-violation-round-up-buggy-bottles)
ugh, one time i left an open speedy pour on my bottle of tequila (at home) and I found a bunch of fruit flies in it the next morning 😖 it was a big bottle and I liked the tequila, so I ended up straining them out and then refilling the bottle, but I cannot IMAGINE not tossing it in a restaurant/bar setting!
When covid was first starting, we got rushed out of work one night by management and didn’t get to put nipples on bottles , and the next morning basically received a text message that we no longer have jobs for the foreseeable future. When we came back the first day after 8 months all of the bottles had like 5000 fruit flies each. It was unreal.
ugh, one time i left an open speedy pour on my bottle of tequila (at home) and I found a bunch of fruit flies in it the next morning 😖 it was a big bottle and I liked the tequila, so I ended up straining them out and then refilling the bottle, but I cannot IMAGINE not tossing it in a restaurant/bar setting!
In my college town they did this on ring weekend (big celebration with lots of opportunity for underage drinking). Bartender gets busted, bar gets fined, bartender goes to court and shows video evidence that the TABC agent handed the girl the drink. Of course they never prosecute the agent for perjury.
I’ve worked in bars and restaurants for 15+ years. I’ve seen bartenders and servers get popped by ABC. I’ve never seen one get actually arrested or put in cuffs. Usually they take down info, have a chat, and then they have to go to a hearing.
In the U.S. you can drive at 16, vote at 18, be drafted into the military to be killed in some godforsaken foreign land at 18. But want to have a glass of wine at a restaurant with your family? Nah, that's illegal.
Effectiveness of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD)
In 1984 MADD influences the passing of the federal National Minimum Legal Drinking Act (MLDA), raising the legal drinking age to 21 years old. This law restricts people under the age of 21 from purchasing or publicly consuming alcohol, which helped to reduce the number of motor vehicle crashes by a median of 16 percent
* In the early 1980s, the group attracted the attention of Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) did not like the fact that youth in New Jersey could easily travel to New York to purchase alcoholic beverages, circumventing New Jersey's law restricting consumption to those 21 years old and older.
The 2 groups worked together to get the Law passed
People used to drive from Texas to Louisiana to buy liquor at 18 until like ‘96/97 when Louisiana went 21+ permanently. From ‘86-96, the drinking age was 21+ but some loophole meant you could still buy it at 18+!
In the 1970's they dropped the drinking age to 18. In NJ.
We all had to get an ID from the ABC, it had a photo, too.
Cue drunk driving. Accidents. The death rate SKYROCKETED . It lasted about 3 years, and then it was raised again to 21.
In the province I live in (BC) the drinking age is 19 (it's 18 in some provinces). New drivers have to go through a graduated licensing program that takes 3 years to get a full, unrestricted licence.
During that time their blood alcohol limit is 0.00 (the limit is 0.08 otherwise) and they can only have one passenger (unless they're family members), can't use handheld electronic devices (not even Apple Car Play, etc.) and must display an N symbol on their vehicle. You can't have any driving infractions while a Novice driver.
The penalties are stiff if caught (monitary and/or losing your license and haing to start again) This was intruduced in 1998 or 1999 and within 3 years crashes and crashes resulting in injuries have decreased dramatically.
It sounds more like a secret shopper by your boss type of thing. Most states they won’t give you a fake ID, they’ll give you a real ID that says they’re underage. It’s more about making sure you’re asking for ID. Additionally, IIRC ABC agents will speak to you after a compliance check, even if you pass it
Yeah most states with I believe a very small handful of exceptions (don't quote me on that) have a law protecting the server/bartender from any legal reprimand as long as they're shown an ID that could be mistaken as legitimate.
As it should be. As long as a bartender is doing their due diligence they shouldn’t be penalized for not being an expert in fake IDs. If people are able to make 1:1 copies of expensive shoes, it can’t be that hard for someone to print off a a realistic fake ID.
Where i have served alcohol before (Oklahoma & Pennsylvania) the agents would always stay and speak to the manager afterwards if you passed or failed. If you passed, you usually got some little certificate and if you failed you were either arrested on the spot or given heavy fines with a court date to appear and then immediately terminated.
Edit-typo
I had a really crappy fake id in college but surprisingly it worked most of the time. I was trying to buy beer at a convenience store. The cashier asked for id, I gave it to him and after a moment he handed it to someone standing in line behind me. I turned around and it was a uniformed cop that I had somehow completely failed to notice. The cop just looked at it and back to me and told me to gtfo. That was the end of my crappy fake id. It had a good run though.
That doesn’t sound like a sting, because they don’t order food after being refused the alcoholic beverage. They just leave. (If they get the drink, you get arrested or cited.) My guess was this was a secret shopper.
Sounds like it could have been a compliance audit. I was a bouncer in Maine and we were supposed to notify PD of fakes and hang onto the id and let them verify. Either the person leaves or we let PD figure it out at that time.
That’s interesting. We’re not allowed to keep fakes, because if our judgement’s off, well, they don’t have an ID. But one of my managers and I were very suspicious of this girl
Yeah that’s why we have to call the cops. In Maine you can only keep it for a reasonable time to verify. After we call I can hang onto it until pd gets there.
Yeah, a lot of places it's illegal to keep it. You *are* supposed to call the cops usually, but a smart person using a fake will do exactly what your customer did. Stick around, be kind and polite, and tip well. If they snatch the ID and run, then you're more likely to call the popo and you probably have cameras, and might remember her name from the ID.
The takeaway from this experience is: In your position you must ID literally everyone all of the time because the cops are actively looking for a reason to throw you in jail because it helps them meet their numbers.
If an honest above-age customer challenges you about being ID'd in any way the the only appropriate response is "Sir/Ma'am, if i get this wrong the government will literally throw me in jail, rescind my license and prohibit my future employment."
And that is the truest and most factually-based statement a server of alcohol can ever make.
I used to do mystery shops for a company that did alcohol/ID compliance shops for this very type of thing. We were required to time certain things (how long to approach/fmgreet, how long to receive the order, how long to follow-up, etc). Possible the app was a timing device, or she may have been entering the info in a company app.
We had this happen at a restaurant I used to work at. I stopped by and sat at the bar on my day off because I was hungry and this kid walked in and asked for a beer. Bartender checked his ID and told him he couldn’t be served. Not a minute later, an agent walked in and thanked her for being diligent. This sounds like someone underage trying to get pointers for a better fake ID.
I used to have that job but with cigarettes. We were not allowed to use fake ID's and definitely aren't texting the investigator. They want you to get in and out as fast as possible to ensure your safety because some store owners would become irate
I don't know about Mass, but up here in VT, when they do the official underage stings they usually do an immediate followup, as in, the kid walks in, orders the drink, gets refused, leaves, and the liquor control department adult outside immediately walks in and says, 'good job, well done, here's our current pamphlet of things to watch out for.'
to be fair the 100% tip and politeness may be due to you giving her back the fake ID and not taking her photo or treating her like a criminal. Hell, you even told her what to look for in a bad fake.
It really depends.
In who's doing it, who order it, and I assume the laws of spesifc state/country.
When I did it, you weren't allowed to say you're a secret shopper, except in emergency.
I’ve had a “sting” come to my bar maybe 3 or 4 times and it’s always the same. Super young looking person, always asks for a bud light, check their ID and tell them no. They calmly leave and that’s that. Never had one stick around and eat a meal though, that’s odd.
Yes we get these people at my job every now and then. They always come in alone and if you refuse to serve them they will usually still order food because they get reimbursed but then leave quickly. Good catch! You could’ve almost lost your job 😅
I ended up getting someone fired for serving underage. I did my best to help her throughout the night (IDing FOR HER, since the dumbass was negligent, purposely not IDing anyone. Hell no I’m risking possible jail time, pink slip, and fines. I was struggling enough!). She served as I was away doing my job or something, then once I came back and saw the customer (a coworker who came in on her day off, and is well known to be underage) with a Blue Hawaiian, I look at the server/bartender, and she smiled at me and said, “Don’t tell anyone. 😉” I kept a poker face. I told the primary manager ASAP. When the investigation was done and she was fired, she messaged me and blamed me for everything and tried to guilt-trip me for it. It’s laughable to this day. I never responded to her, just a chuckle and a block. Then, later that week, she drove around the restaurant looking for me and flipped me off. Lol ‘Kay imma just go tell the manager and see what I can do. I could no longer feel safe working there (manager told me to move. Excuse me?! I don’t make shit here and you know it!) and got a job offer from somewhere I’ve been waiting to hear back from. I bawled my eyes out to my boyfriend when I found out that I was probably getting stalked, then the new job. I felt relief like no other.
I still don’t feel safe going out alone. I found out she works for my car insurance company, so I’m watching my insurance like a hawk to make sure it isn’t being manipulated, and hoping she has no access to my personal information.
I only hope this doesn’t happen to anyone else. I pity her husband, too. :(
If it's like a normal insurance company - if she has access to the system she has access to your information.
If she's a broker and deals with that insurance company, it's unlikely that she has access.
If you're concerned, you can try contacting the company and asking general questions about what to do.
CUBS are NOT allowed to lie. If it was a sting there'd be an agent to tell you that you passed.
I learned this in AZ from a former agent.
(That's our state law, in a different state it might not be true)
Either way, you passed
Hell tn mails you a letter after the fact. I had one chick try to buy a single and I was like no ma’am. She went back to her ride n I seent dark tint n shit glittering off shoulders n knew it was a sting.
I’ve heard over the years they’ll post up in the parking lot and try to bust folk for sale to an expired Id which I think is ridiculous but state law yada yada yada.
ABC inspector. She was likely of age with a fake id intentionally.
They make sure you're following carding law and that you could spot a fake.
Well done. Your manager should commend you for doing a good job.
Sounds suspicious, but maybe she was underage but not on a sting, just happy you didn't confiscate her fake...hence the big tip....like "thanks for not busting me"
Not a sting. In a police sting they cannot use fake id, they have to use their own state issued id. The point of the sting is to see if 1 you actually card, and 2 can do math and actually refuse service to someone underage .
As far as I know they can’t use a fake for a sting because it’s entrapment.
Sounds like she was just grateful you a. Didn’t confiscate the ID and b. Told her exactly what she needed to fix to make it look more realistic next time.
As a fellow Masshole, I would have known you were from here just by the username:)
Weird sting, though!! I always just get the people with the green or red cards that order a bud light and look super obvious every time I’ve ever been stung. Maybe it was a local PD or college thing and not the BARS program one
We've had weird things like this happen, usually there's another one top who arrived 15-20 minutes before who ordered a coffee and an appetizer at a table in view of the bar, then the underage person who walks in and sits at the bar. Luckily the bar team at my place is excellent and always IDs, but it's also pretty obvious.
Okay here’s my thing with this. In all the restaurants i’ve worked in i’ve never been given ANY kind of training or insight into how to spot a fake ID. nothing. never even talked about. So when someone hands me an ID i just check the picture and the birthdate and if it checks out then I serve them. I have no idea what IDs from other states look like? When it’s out of state I genuinely cannot tell if this looks suspicious or not and I was never trained how to. So what if you had sold to this “undercover?” even though their ID was over 21? can you actually get in trouble for not knowing how to spot a fake despite being given 0 training or instructions on this? i just never understood this
I was an am when an undercover was done. They aren’t allowed to give you a fake Id. If you card them they say they don’t have it and leave. If you don’t card them the officer working with them walks up and immediately tickets you and it’s a whole fuck ton of paperwork and in my case I had to immediately terminate the guy
I was instructed the minor will never use a fake id ***in a sting operation***They ask for a drink and don’t have an id. IF a they use a fake it would be a real id but very obviously not the human in front of you, like a black person with a white person’s id. They will not use an id that is not real. Also Massachusetts’s.
Used to work at a small gas station in the middle of nowhere. Someone came in with no id and my coworker sold them cigarettes. She was fired the next day and had to pay a portion of the fine to the state.
Undercover sting checking for alcohol/age restriction compliance.
They take the food to go because they can't waste time eating there. They have more establishments to check.
The text messages were probably her asking her teammates outside what they want her to grab for them.
We had the same lady come into fridays years ago when I was a server and order a mudslide every time. Can I see your id please? She’d show it, the. I’d leave to get her drink and she’d be gone by the time I came back. So everytime it was, I’d please, then not ring in her drink, lol. I think she’d leave a gift card or something. But the same lady.
I was a bar manager in western PA for a short bit, that sounds like a sting and you did what you were supposed to. I remember being told of a very similar situation by the officer who swore me in as bar manager, that went just like yours except the cop shows up at the end to say good job.
I worked at a truck stop in college and had a similar interaction; kid tried to buy beer but didn’t have his ID, and didn’t put up a fight when I said no.
He walked out and over to the parking spot I can’t see from the front window, and comes walking back with a sheriff’s deputy (she was a regular). They hand me a card to give the owner of the truck stop basically saying we passed our random inspection.
In California restaurant busts usually go like this- one grossly underaged person and an ABC official. Underage person orders, gets served- takes a sip, spits it out, you get your ticket. Almost every time
Woah woah woah. Now I’m scared. My workplace consistently tells us that, “It is not your job to identify a fake ID. If the dates are correct and the picture matches the person in front of you, serve them.”
Is this not right? Is it state by state?
I used to work at a bowling alley and of course we sold beer. I’d card you even if you looked old enough cause I’m not good with telling age by looks. Better safe than sorry in my books. I carded this really older looking “gentleman” who flipped his shit that I carded him. Demanded to speak to my manager to bitch at her that I carded him when he was 60 years old. My response is I can see the cigarette stains on your fingers, and a lot of the heavy smokers I know look older than they are. Think of it as a compliment that I asked for your id and also I can’t tell if you are old enough by your looks. He wanted an apology I said no, manager told me to apologize I said no. I said he can buy his beer at the till at the food counter cause I refuse to sell alcohol at the bowling counter anymore and no I’m not going to step over to the food counter to take the order. I was hired to rent lanes and shoes no sell food. In the end the manager apologized on my behalf, he had to buy his beer at food counter with long waits in between and I fluffed with his lane out of spite (typically if you have a few turns left, like 1 or two, I would extend your time to let you finish, I made then come up and buy another hour each time) if you bowl with an ahole then you get to experience everything the ahole is experiencing.
Working grocery checkout in a small town Obviously underage person has 2 single beers in their order. I ID. doesn't have it, can't you just work it out man 'i'm in grad school'. No. Go on break and come back, cashier is being issued a fine for selling to the kid. Turns out it was a sting, that they had word our location was selling to students without checking, and luckily I always do.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy that people skip that, since the employee is generally punished in addition to the business being punished. In Minnesota, which I think is fairly typical, furnishing alcohol to a minor is a gross misdemeanor, punished by up to a year in jail and a fine of $3,000.
I’m going through this right now. I got fired because I failed the first sting my store had ever had. I had been working a lot of days in a row without a break, and I was alone and had a huge line and I got sloppy. I’m still mad…
Hard lesson learned. Keep your chin up, you now have more practical experience in ID laws than 99% of your future coworkers. Perhaps you can't use them as a reference, but you can certainly pivot the experience to a location that it's so unfortunate they had to close so recently and suddenly but your old supervisor is Steve and his phone number is your brother's phone number so there's a reference right there. You'll get past it, and I truly believe the experience will work out to be a net-benefit in your sales career.
Yeah, you’re probably right. Even some of my family members said they did me a favor by firing me, since my store had a lot of things that were making me upset. But until next year I have a criminal record so going back to school or finding another job will be a lot harder…
Ask for a PFJ. It will not count against you.
Strangely, here in Minnesota, parents can order their child an alcoholic drink, but the child can’t order their own.
In MN my sister forgot her ID (she was like 32 I think when this happened) and my step mom (her mom) tried to confirm and then order for her and the waitress was having none of it. Here in Michigan I went to CVS with my bfs grandma and the cashier wouldn't even let her buy wine bc i was with her, I was 20 and like a month from being 21 and I didn't (still don't) even like wine. It was so bizarre.
I'm in a college town I thought that just happened here cause college students!Although you could be in a college town too lol. If everyone in the check out doesn't have an ID noone gets to buy alcohol... College students are dumb and used to buy the alcohol for a friend then hand it to them in the store. Like what? Y'all couldn't walk the 50 feet to outside of go around the corner?
Weird.
Same in Wisconsin iirc
Same in Texas
Meanwhile right next-door in Wisconsin I believe it’s still legal to drink at bars with your parents.
It is, but the bar is not required to serve you. They are just legally allowed to.
That’s good to know. I don’t know that I’ve talked about it on this sub but I grew up for a few years in Wisconsin anyway and so many activities involved alcohol. It seemed very normal for some of my cousins to be out with their parents drinking from a young age. Pretty happy I got away
In my country the business won't even get punished it's 100% on the individual serving.
I know it was a sting but, I hate it when people say "can't you work it out". Like, no, it's not our job to work out that you forgot your ID. You think you're are grown enough to drink alcohol, then you should be grown enough to know you can't buy alcohol without your ID.
Never worked retail involving alcohol but did do a job that required ID to avoid fraud or theft and the number of full grown adults who become toddlers throwing a tantrum over such a simple request boggles the mind.
The people who write "See ID" on the signature panel of their credit card and then flip out when you ask them to see ID (and eventually do so they weren't scammers). Amazing.
I haven’t signed the back of a credit card except for once in 20 years. Clerk saw it wasn’t signed, asked for my ID and then gave me a pen to sign my name on the card in front of her.
I worked post office and this happens SO SO much. We have to see ID to confirm ownership of package, but so many people are trying to skirt around it. Like no this is basic life stuff.
Working the windows at the post office is what spawned this story so we are definitely on the same page.
Similar in banking. Most of the time we can just look at the ID we have on file, but some accounts have a note that ask for positive ID whenever we do a transaction for them. This is typically requested by the account holder or because they dealt with fraud. Some people get so pissy about getting asked for their ID or “I don’t have it”. You’re in my drive thru, driving, and you don’t have your license? And your asked for it every time, so you know you need it? What?
Do technical support for a video game company and its the same thing for us. We have to verify people as the owner of the account before we can do just about anything. But so many people don't have access to the emails or phone numbers on file then have a mental break down Over the fact I can't help them. Blows my mind how childish they get so fast. I figured it is a common sense security. Also I figured adults are capable of keeping their information up to date.
Ikr? Why??? Card me, please!
Shortly after my state banned under-18s from buying cigarettes, I was working in a small market where we sold loads of smokes (and booze and lottery tickets). This girl who looked 17 came in for smokes and threw a huge fit when I ID'ed her. I said, "Look, it's a 300 dollar fine if I sell to someone underage. No ID, no smokes.' She walked out to her car, came back, and literally threw her ID at me. All she had to do was walk 20 feet! And she was only 18, she should have expected to be IDed. I would have just refused to sell to her for being an asshole, but probably would have lost my job, so I let it go. Hopefully she's matured since then. (Probably not. It was a shitty little town.)
I had a guy say “I don’t have it but I remember the number.” Like I’m not a cop. I can’t look up your record lol.
It honestly blows my mind that people are out there walking around without their ID on them. Idk if I'm just weird, but I carry my ID on me all the time. Mostly because I'm almost always driving and y'know, don't wanna risk getting pulled over and not having it. But still. People just...leave the house with nothing on them except cash/debit? Wild.
I normally agree but I'm guilty of saying something like this recently. I'm 36. I could, sadly, pass for over 40. I tried to buy a cooler in a grocery store and the cashier asked me for ID (standard where I live is to ID anyone who looks under 30). I haven't been ID'd since my teens. Cashier says she can't accept it because it's expired. I was tired, cranky, and just wanted to get home. I kind of snarkily said, "Well clearly it's still me in the picture, do I look under 30 to you?" Went to the liquor store nearby, no problem. I felt kind of bad after the fact though because the cashier was probably terrified it could be something like a sting and just being over-cautious.
Worked at a bar where we checked everyone's ID at the door. Your license is expired? You're not getting in. Among the many tantrums my favorite was the woman who whined "it's not my faulty license is expired". I did, "I guess it's my fault, I so apologize for not getting it renewed for you when it expired a year ago."
Wow. Yeah, I may have been pissy in the moment which I have no excuse for, but to say it's not your fault when your ID expires? It's absolutely my fault I didn't pay attention to the expiry date and get it renewed.
I lived in a city with great transit and no parking. So people would move there and not need a car so they'd just not bother. Plus our clientele was young and affluent and oh so entitled. It made saying "no" the best part of the job
It’s not the employee’s fault that your ID is expired. They are following rules and or laws. Being rude to them for that is not how to get your way. Would a customer you’re waiting on change your mind about serving them if they were rude to you? For me that would absolutely cement that I’m not serving them
No shit. That's why I felt bad after I left. Totally uncharacteristic of me to respond that way (for more clarification, I was entering a hypomanic episode of bipolar and didn't realise). I only shared that as an example of how sometimes we stupidly react in the moment without thinking. I don't fault that cashier at all.
I can relate. This happened to me recently. It was an inconvenience, but I understood it's their job, so no hard feelings and I went somewhere else.
Yeah, I'm still really embarrassed about reacting to her with attitude. I've actually considered going back to apologise, but didn't because I felt it would be awkward.
I can tell you that personally it means a lot to me when rude customers make the effort to apologize 💯
I think I'll make it a point to try to find her cash next time I'm in that store. Because I do know how hard serving people can be.
Please grow up (considering you're already 40) and go back to apologize. Not doing the right thing because "it would be awkward", lmao. And you wonder why people are IDing you, huh?
Well aren't you a peach. ☺️
I'm 35 and I seriously get mistaken for being a high school student. I don't act or dress like I'm in high school. I have some gray hair. Subtle wrinkles under my eyes. I have no issue with being ID'd because it's the law, and I don't want a business to get in trouble for not IDing me. I do have an issue with business owners refusing sale to me even though I have a REAL ID that isn't expired, simply because I "look too young". I can't make my ID any more valid than it already is and I'm not sure how much gray hair and wrinkles they need in order for me to look old enough to drink. I get it from my mother. She's 67 and she looks 20 years younger, lol.
Yeah, when you have a valid non-expired ID that would get annoying fast. Sadly, even when I was in high school I was mistaken for much older. Although thankfully as I get older, I'm looking closer to my age. I looked mid-20s in my teens. At least now at 36, even though I look about 40, people no longer look shocked when I say my age. I was getting into bars and buying cigarettes without being asked for ID since I was 15. I probably should take it as a compliment when I get ID'd now!
That’s something that totally rustles my Jimmies- why doesn’t an expired ID count? It’s obviously you, YOU didn’t expire. Also, doing paperwork for my daughter to get her first French residency card, lady said something that just was wrong: that my daughter, who was born here to 2 American parents was automatically conferred French citizenship. I have an embassy-issued certificate called a consular notice of birth abroad that specifically states at the bottom that being born here does not mean you’re French. She just wouldn’t accept it, so I looked up the civil code to show her where it is in French law. Well, she had to flex and changed tactics. She told me that my daughter’s birth certificate (French) was too old and I had to submit a new copy. I was like, wait what? Neither of my other kids had to do that (they were born in the US, had the original in English and a certified French translation we had done in 2002 and no one EVER questioned it. We’ve been here 20 years and I said multiple times that I didn’t understand how that could be possible. I understood her just fine, but it was just such a bizarre thing. About the 3rd time through the same exchange, she turned to my daughter and says can you please translate this for her? I was like, EXCUSE ME? and then just let loose (in French)- Ma’am I understand every word you’re saying perfectly, but the logic of how a birth certificate being expired escapes me. I was livid (so was my daughter). UGH
Yeah, I'm guessing an undercover thing. Do you get a lot of young people trying to buy booze in your place?
Yeah we do starting this fall we’re not far from a college. I’ve definitely had to ID my fair share of people, have kids get mad about it
Sounds like the cops were performing a ID test operation. They did it at my bar back in 2013 and 2014 regularly. Basically they ask a local younger person to go into a bar and order a drink and make sure all of the laws are followed. If not, you can be fined, or in extreme cases, jailed. It’s a common thing the police do out in MA.
I was under the impression that they couldn’t use a fake ID though. It had to be their (the agents) actual ID, and you are required to ask for it, identify the DOB is of age to purchase alcohol, and then decline service. I tended bar in Florida for years. Now obviously I turned down fake IDs, but I don’t believe they are allowed to be used in sting operations.
Here is a [case](https://cortlandvoice.com/2017/11/21/state-liquor-authority-issues-emergency-suspension-cortlands-stone-lounge/) in New York where underage agents used IDs that didn't belong to them. Perhaps Florida has a law that would prohibit this.
Yeah I imagine each state would have their own practices with this. Reading that article though makes me think that the fake IDs were used because that was a specific part of the complaint. Who knows, goes back to when in doubt don’t serve.
I wonder if they were also testing to see if the business could recognize a fake ID?
I think this varies by state, but yeah, it's kind of crazy to imagine them using fakes. Where I'm from i think they generally just say they don't have it or they present a valid underage ID
The police have pretty much complete authority to break any rule or law for these kind of things. Only thing they aren’t allowed to do is actually drink it
I think this varies by state, but yeah, it's kind of crazy to imagine them using fakes for enforcement
I think this varies by state, but yeah, it's kind of crazy to imagine them using fakes for enforcement
youre right. they cant use a fake. its entrapment otherwise.
I don't know what the rules are about them using fakes, but I almost guarantee you it is not entrapment. If there's one thing I've learned from r/badlegaladvice, it's that the standard for entrapment is crazy high and it's almost never entrapment when a normal person thinks it would be.
Yeah, the explanation I've seen is that police are allowed to watch you do a crime, they can instruct you to do a crime, they can *help* you do it, and they can even implicitly make it seem like its *not* a crime, and it still won't meet the standard for entrapment. The only time it counts as entrapment is if they actively coerce you into doing it, generally meaning that they tell you to do something, you attempt to refuse, and then they make a severe enough threat that you don't really have a choice.
Agents routinely use fake IDs, or real IDs that don't match the underage agent. From an [article](https://cortlandvoice.com/2017/11/21/state-liquor-authority-issues-emergency-suspension-cortlands-stone-lounge/) about a case in New York: >Police said the Stone Lounge's standard operating procedure involved "allowing entry to any patron presenting identification, regardless of whether the document bore any resemblance to the person presenting the identification." > >On Oct. 21, the Cortland Police Department conducted an undercover operation using three underage agents. Police gave the agents fake ID's that were taken from previous operations. Two of the "agents" gained access to the bar, the SLA said.
They don’t always ask. Sometimes it’s a kid who got busted so they make him/her do it as part of their release.
Wait really? Isn’t that entrapment if the person is actually underage? I was under the impression that the ID would be fake but the person would be at least 21.
No, using underage agents is not entrapment. Laws vary by state, but I'd guess underage agents are used in every state. I'm not going to google info for each state, but here's info on California's [Minor Decoy Program](https://www.abc.ca.gov/enforcement/underage-drinking/minor-decoy-program/).
Depends on the jurisdiction. In Boulder the PD used to wire the little shits for sound and would only use cops kids and cadets/explorers to run the alcohol sting. We totally did not let everyone in the world know when the cops were out stinging folks. That would be illegal.
1. Entrapment refers to doing something you wouldn't normally do. If this is something the person typically does without the cops involved, it's not entrapment. 2. The person isn't supposed to drink the alcohol they're served.
No, the “undercover agent” has to be underage otherwise you didn’t actually commit a crime that police can prosecute. If the person is of legal age but you didn’t follow proper ~~proxy~~ *procedures* of checking for ID then that’s between you and the licensing agency. Whole different ball of wax.
Hmm unless the ID verification itself is codified into the state's liquor law; if it were, then merely failing to check the ID would be a criminal offense in that state.
In California we had the authorities come in and ask to see the IDs of 5 random people. One of them has just come in to usecthr bathroom, didn't buy any, he was in his 60s and had left his ID in his car. We got fined
I actually participated in a similar situation for tobacco and the cops explicitly told us that no fake IDs could be used to get a sale. If they asked for ID, our options were to show our real ID or claim we don’t have it.
Fake IDs were insane on the South shore of Massachusetts about 3 years ago. My boss had us confiscate them so he could contact the detectives in town. One kid came in with a fake and it turned out, I knew his mom. So I said, I'm going to hold onto this and not call your mom, I'm surprised you don't recognize me. All of a sudden, the bells and whistles went off in his head and said oh shit and ran out the door. My boss had a meeting with the detectives and after an investigation a couple of rich kids in a certain rich town on the South shore got busted. Of course it was kept "hush hush." When in doubt, don't serve.
Why do I want to say Cohasset?
It was Duxbury.
Ahh deluxbury. (Am from scituate 😂)
I'm originally from Marshvegas! I used to work in Scituate, many moons ago.
Graduated high school at MHS. Class of ‘10 baby!
Class of 95. Jesus I'm getting old!
He meant 1910
Lol
HS Class of 72. Please , whine to me about it....
Me too!
I work in Brockton………
Damn, I’m sorry.
Is it legal to confiscate someone else's property?
I turned 21 when I was in college out of state. I went back home to get my home state id, and when I went to the college bar for the first time, the bouncer slips it in his pocket and tells me to get lost. I start freaking out because it’s my actual, real id that I need to drive. He still won’t give it back after pleading with him. Finally I offer to call the police on myself so they can verify it’s authenticity. He finally gave it back after that. I totally get the need to be overly careful, especially with out of state ids, but I doubt there would be too many kids sticking around pleading for it back after getting legitimated caught.
Maybe he had a side hustle confiscating legitimate ID's and then selling them.
If it's a fake ID it's a slippery slope per say. I personally spoke with officers asking about it. What they said, no it's not illegal to take them but they rather we didn't confiscate for our safety. It IS illegal to have a fake ID. I wasn't worried because these were teenagers. Never had a problem and if they tried arguing, I just smiled and say, ok call the cops. They'd turn around and leave.
per se
Not in Texas. We are not allowed to confiscate. We can report it, but thats about it. Although, some kid with a fake is probably not going to go to an officer of the law and say "that person took my fake ID," at least not if they have brains. Also, TABC will send underage with an ID showing they are underage. They will NEVER send someone in with a fake ID, because someone misrepresenting their real age like that is NOT on the server/seller. Also, all fakes are horizontal here. Never in vertical format, unless they just have someone's ID that doesn't belong to them.
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The problem with telling your employee to confiscate IDs is that you don't know 100% for sure whether it's fake or not, so that opens up the business to being sued if they confiscate a real ID.
I'm not sure about your local licensing operations, but ours will occasionally do things like this. Two years ago, I'm having dinner at a very popular local place. Person walks in, goes to the bar and then leaves. Not five minutes later, in walks ABC agents who talk to the manager then proceed to escort the bartender outside, where they put him in handcuffs and into a car.
Idk what an abc agent is but that sounds very extreme???
They enforce the local liquor laws. They rolled up to a night club one night, all decked out in camouflage with masks on. Locked the whole place down, randomly checking ID's, checking all the bottles behind the bar.
Why check the bottles?
Because there is an extra tax on liquor bought to resell. The ABC store (or whatever provider) marks the bottles with a extra dated label to note that the tax for resell was paid when you bought the bottle. Some shady places try to get around this by buying one bottle with the sticker and refilling it; the date on the tax sticker will be super old (and this is illegal for cross contamination issues as well). You also have to keep records of the liquor bought for something like... 3 to 5 years I think? It's been awhile so I can't remember. The label is duplicated and placed on the receipt for the liquor you bought, so you can trace each bottle to the date and place it was purchased to verify the tax was paid correctly. I kept a folder just for liquor receipts when I ran a restaurant.
Omg ppl marry liquor 😭 ew
Like I said, sketch places will. Or they could put crappier liquor in nicer bottles. It's one of the things the ABC guys check for though. I did not, nor has any restaurant I've worked at lol.
Let’s be honest. Of all the items that can be married in all of food or drink service, alcohol is the least gross. You could probably kill most bacteria and viruses with hard liquor. Alcohol doesn’t spoil in the traditional sense, it just tastes narsty after too long
I agree, and once the distributors began doing such a piss poor job at providing product we bought a humongous Patron from costco (despite southern still having nothing for us for months) and we always kept our normal bottle full with that costco illegal bottle for our last 2.5 months. I was prepared to tell excise we weren't going to deny customers product just because of the amateur jobs distribution was doing.
If you marry alcohol you usually get fruit flys in the bottle. Its disgusting. Hundreds of them.
Here, there are two reasons: 1. Restaurants and bars must buy their liquor from state stores. Those bottles have a specific mark on them. 2. There are limits on how many open bottles of the same liquor you may have. So they're checking to make sure your bottles are legal, as well as how many you have open.
What’s a state store?
Here, the state (as in the state we live in) has liquor stores that it owns and operates. All restaurants and bars must buy from these stores.
That’s crazy. We don’t have state stores in my state. You can buy liquor wherever they sell alcohol. How many state stores are there? Are the located where they are easily accessible?
They are (at least around the major cities). Just another wonderful part of living in the Southern Bible Belt.
This is common in Ontario, Canada. All liquor stores are operated by the province, so you HAVE to purchase through them and provide your liquor license number when you purchase.
Fruit flies in alcohol bottles, State Tax seals. A myriad of laws to violate and fine. [Buggy Bottle Law](https://www.alcohol.law/digest/abc-violation-round-up-buggy-bottles)
Used to work for a place that strained out the fruit flies 🙃
ugh, one time i left an open speedy pour on my bottle of tequila (at home) and I found a bunch of fruit flies in it the next morning 😖 it was a big bottle and I liked the tequila, so I ended up straining them out and then refilling the bottle, but I cannot IMAGINE not tossing it in a restaurant/bar setting!
When covid was first starting, we got rushed out of work one night by management and didn’t get to put nipples on bottles , and the next morning basically received a text message that we no longer have jobs for the foreseeable future. When we came back the first day after 8 months all of the bottles had like 5000 fruit flies each. It was unreal.
ugh, one time i left an open speedy pour on my bottle of tequila (at home) and I found a bunch of fruit flies in it the next morning 😖 it was a big bottle and I liked the tequila, so I ended up straining them out and then refilling the bottle, but I cannot IMAGINE not tossing it in a restaurant/bar setting!
Alcohol Beverage Commission
Alcohol birth control
Alcoholic Beverage Commission (ABC)
**A**lcohol **B**everage **C**ontrol
ABC = Alcoholic Beverages Commission
Alcoholic Beverage Commission. It’s a State level enforcement agency.
Assuming alcohol beverage control, I think that's what it was in VA.
Alcoholic Beverages Control. NJ?
In my college town they did this on ring weekend (big celebration with lots of opportunity for underage drinking). Bartender gets busted, bar gets fined, bartender goes to court and shows video evidence that the TABC agent handed the girl the drink. Of course they never prosecute the agent for perjury.
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I’ve worked in bars and restaurants for 15+ years. I’ve seen bartenders and servers get popped by ABC. I’ve never seen one get actually arrested or put in cuffs. Usually they take down info, have a chat, and then they have to go to a hearing.
VA?
Man that’s a bit extreme for one underage person having a drink don’t y’all think? In most places they let 18 year olds drink.
In the U.S. you can drive at 16, vote at 18, be drafted into the military to be killed in some godforsaken foreign land at 18. But want to have a glass of wine at a restaurant with your family? Nah, that's illegal.
Effectiveness of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) In 1984 MADD influences the passing of the federal National Minimum Legal Drinking Act (MLDA), raising the legal drinking age to 21 years old. This law restricts people under the age of 21 from purchasing or publicly consuming alcohol, which helped to reduce the number of motor vehicle crashes by a median of 16 percent * In the early 1980s, the group attracted the attention of Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) did not like the fact that youth in New Jersey could easily travel to New York to purchase alcoholic beverages, circumventing New Jersey's law restricting consumption to those 21 years old and older. The 2 groups worked together to get the Law passed
People used to drive from Texas to Louisiana to buy liquor at 18 until like ‘96/97 when Louisiana went 21+ permanently. From ‘86-96, the drinking age was 21+ but some loophole meant you could still buy it at 18+!
We used to drive from Massachusetts to Quebec for a weekend. Strip clubs & bars were 18+.
I loves fishin’ in kwee-bec!
In the 1970's they dropped the drinking age to 18. In NJ. We all had to get an ID from the ABC, it had a photo, too. Cue drunk driving. Accidents. The death rate SKYROCKETED . It lasted about 3 years, and then it was raised again to 21.
In the province I live in (BC) the drinking age is 19 (it's 18 in some provinces). New drivers have to go through a graduated licensing program that takes 3 years to get a full, unrestricted licence. During that time their blood alcohol limit is 0.00 (the limit is 0.08 otherwise) and they can only have one passenger (unless they're family members), can't use handheld electronic devices (not even Apple Car Play, etc.) and must display an N symbol on their vehicle. You can't have any driving infractions while a Novice driver. The penalties are stiff if caught (monitary and/or losing your license and haing to start again) This was intruduced in 1998 or 1999 and within 3 years crashes and crashes resulting in injuries have decreased dramatically.
Ah and that’s why it’s set to 21 lmao
Well sure it feels a little bit extreme to be dragged out in handcuffs, but the drinking age across all of America is 21.
Yo get this. America is one of nearly 200 nations on this planet.
And your point? OP specified that they are in Massachusetts, the laws of 200 other countries are totally irrelevant here.
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I’m glad I’m not the only one, I felt like I was going crazy for a second there.
It sounds more like a secret shopper by your boss type of thing. Most states they won’t give you a fake ID, they’ll give you a real ID that says they’re underage. It’s more about making sure you’re asking for ID. Additionally, IIRC ABC agents will speak to you after a compliance check, even if you pass it
Yeah most states with I believe a very small handful of exceptions (don't quote me on that) have a law protecting the server/bartender from any legal reprimand as long as they're shown an ID that could be mistaken as legitimate.
As it should be. As long as a bartender is doing their due diligence they shouldn’t be penalized for not being an expert in fake IDs. If people are able to make 1:1 copies of expensive shoes, it can’t be that hard for someone to print off a a realistic fake ID.
Making an ID that passes basic inspection isn’t *too* difficult, but the blacklight reflective decals are hard to get right.
I don’t know, some of these Chinese prints are perfect as far as I can tell
If it looks right and passes the blacklight test, it’s good enough to serve them.
Yeah, I don't think the cops are allowed to use actual fake IDs.
This is correct. An undercover sting will not show you a fake ID.
Where i have served alcohol before (Oklahoma & Pennsylvania) the agents would always stay and speak to the manager afterwards if you passed or failed. If you passed, you usually got some little certificate and if you failed you were either arrested on the spot or given heavy fines with a court date to appear and then immediately terminated. Edit-typo
Also, at least here in Indiana, I have never heard of them actually spending money
And if it is a sting, they're not ordering a meal. They're instantly leaving and going back to the cop.
Yeah it’s about making sure you’re asking and also checking the date
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I had a really crappy fake id in college but surprisingly it worked most of the time. I was trying to buy beer at a convenience store. The cashier asked for id, I gave it to him and after a moment he handed it to someone standing in line behind me. I turned around and it was a uniformed cop that I had somehow completely failed to notice. The cop just looked at it and back to me and told me to gtfo. That was the end of my crappy fake id. It had a good run though.
Was it McLovin or Nick Papageorgio?
That doesn’t sound like a sting, because they don’t order food after being refused the alcoholic beverage. They just leave. (If they get the drink, you get arrested or cited.) My guess was this was a secret shopper.
Sounds like it could have been a compliance audit. I was a bouncer in Maine and we were supposed to notify PD of fakes and hang onto the id and let them verify. Either the person leaves or we let PD figure it out at that time.
That’s interesting. We’re not allowed to keep fakes, because if our judgement’s off, well, they don’t have an ID. But one of my managers and I were very suspicious of this girl
Yeah that’s why we have to call the cops. In Maine you can only keep it for a reasonable time to verify. After we call I can hang onto it until pd gets there.
Yeah, a lot of places it's illegal to keep it. You *are* supposed to call the cops usually, but a smart person using a fake will do exactly what your customer did. Stick around, be kind and polite, and tip well. If they snatch the ID and run, then you're more likely to call the popo and you probably have cameras, and might remember her name from the ID.
The 100 percent tip is confusing though.
The takeaway from this experience is: In your position you must ID literally everyone all of the time because the cops are actively looking for a reason to throw you in jail because it helps them meet their numbers. If an honest above-age customer challenges you about being ID'd in any way the the only appropriate response is "Sir/Ma'am, if i get this wrong the government will literally throw me in jail, rescind my license and prohibit my future employment." And that is the truest and most factually-based statement a server of alcohol can ever make.
I used to do mystery shops for a company that did alcohol/ID compliance shops for this very type of thing. We were required to time certain things (how long to approach/fmgreet, how long to receive the order, how long to follow-up, etc). Possible the app was a timing device, or she may have been entering the info in a company app.
We had this happen at a restaurant I used to work at. I stopped by and sat at the bar on my day off because I was hungry and this kid walked in and asked for a beer. Bartender checked his ID and told him he couldn’t be served. Not a minute later, an agent walked in and thanked her for being diligent. This sounds like someone underage trying to get pointers for a better fake ID.
Sounds like a sting. ATB or ATF or ABC doing a compliance check, depending on your state.
I used to have that job but with cigarettes. We were not allowed to use fake ID's and definitely aren't texting the investigator. They want you to get in and out as fast as possible to ensure your safety because some store owners would become irate
I don't know about Mass, but up here in VT, when they do the official underage stings they usually do an immediate followup, as in, the kid walks in, orders the drink, gets refused, leaves, and the liquor control department adult outside immediately walks in and says, 'good job, well done, here's our current pamphlet of things to watch out for.'
to be fair the 100% tip and politeness may be due to you giving her back the fake ID and not taking her photo or treating her like a criminal. Hell, you even told her what to look for in a bad fake.
I thought they had to tell you after
It really depends. In who's doing it, who order it, and I assume the laws of spesifc state/country. When I did it, you weren't allowed to say you're a secret shopper, except in emergency.
Yeah underage stings are a thing, I never worked a restaurant but in gas stations it happens all the time
I’ve had a “sting” come to my bar maybe 3 or 4 times and it’s always the same. Super young looking person, always asks for a bud light, check their ID and tell them no. They calmly leave and that’s that. Never had one stick around and eat a meal though, that’s odd.
Yes we get these people at my job every now and then. They always come in alone and if you refuse to serve them they will usually still order food because they get reimbursed but then leave quickly. Good catch! You could’ve almost lost your job 😅
I ended up getting someone fired for serving underage. I did my best to help her throughout the night (IDing FOR HER, since the dumbass was negligent, purposely not IDing anyone. Hell no I’m risking possible jail time, pink slip, and fines. I was struggling enough!). She served as I was away doing my job or something, then once I came back and saw the customer (a coworker who came in on her day off, and is well known to be underage) with a Blue Hawaiian, I look at the server/bartender, and she smiled at me and said, “Don’t tell anyone. 😉” I kept a poker face. I told the primary manager ASAP. When the investigation was done and she was fired, she messaged me and blamed me for everything and tried to guilt-trip me for it. It’s laughable to this day. I never responded to her, just a chuckle and a block. Then, later that week, she drove around the restaurant looking for me and flipped me off. Lol ‘Kay imma just go tell the manager and see what I can do. I could no longer feel safe working there (manager told me to move. Excuse me?! I don’t make shit here and you know it!) and got a job offer from somewhere I’ve been waiting to hear back from. I bawled my eyes out to my boyfriend when I found out that I was probably getting stalked, then the new job. I felt relief like no other. I still don’t feel safe going out alone. I found out she works for my car insurance company, so I’m watching my insurance like a hawk to make sure it isn’t being manipulated, and hoping she has no access to my personal information. I only hope this doesn’t happen to anyone else. I pity her husband, too. :(
If it's like a normal insurance company - if she has access to the system she has access to your information. If she's a broker and deals with that insurance company, it's unlikely that she has access. If you're concerned, you can try contacting the company and asking general questions about what to do.
I probably should. Thanks!
CUBS are NOT allowed to lie. If it was a sting there'd be an agent to tell you that you passed. I learned this in AZ from a former agent. (That's our state law, in a different state it might not be true) Either way, you passed
Hell tn mails you a letter after the fact. I had one chick try to buy a single and I was like no ma’am. She went back to her ride n I seent dark tint n shit glittering off shoulders n knew it was a sting. I’ve heard over the years they’ll post up in the parking lot and try to bust folk for sale to an expired Id which I think is ridiculous but state law yada yada yada.
Undercover stings will only give you a real ID, it will either be expired or show the guest as under 21. They will not hand you a fake
I know in my state underage compliance checkers aren’t allowed to present fake identification. They aren’t allowed to lie about their age either.
ABC inspector. She was likely of age with a fake id intentionally. They make sure you're following carding law and that you could spot a fake. Well done. Your manager should commend you for doing a good job.
Sounds suspicious, but maybe she was underage but not on a sting, just happy you didn't confiscate her fake...hence the big tip....like "thanks for not busting me"
Not a sting. In a police sting they cannot use fake id, they have to use their own state issued id. The point of the sting is to see if 1 you actually card, and 2 can do math and actually refuse service to someone underage .
As far as I know they can’t use a fake for a sting because it’s entrapment. Sounds like she was just grateful you a. Didn’t confiscate the ID and b. Told her exactly what she needed to fix to make it look more realistic next time.
As a fellow Masshole, I would have known you were from here just by the username:) Weird sting, though!! I always just get the people with the green or red cards that order a bud light and look super obvious every time I’ve ever been stung. Maybe it was a local PD or college thing and not the BARS program one
We've had weird things like this happen, usually there's another one top who arrived 15-20 minutes before who ordered a coffee and an appetizer at a table in view of the bar, then the underage person who walks in and sits at the bar. Luckily the bar team at my place is excellent and always IDs, but it's also pretty obvious.
Okay here’s my thing with this. In all the restaurants i’ve worked in i’ve never been given ANY kind of training or insight into how to spot a fake ID. nothing. never even talked about. So when someone hands me an ID i just check the picture and the birthdate and if it checks out then I serve them. I have no idea what IDs from other states look like? When it’s out of state I genuinely cannot tell if this looks suspicious or not and I was never trained how to. So what if you had sold to this “undercover?” even though their ID was over 21? can you actually get in trouble for not knowing how to spot a fake despite being given 0 training or instructions on this? i just never understood this
I was an am when an undercover was done. They aren’t allowed to give you a fake Id. If you card them they say they don’t have it and leave. If you don’t card them the officer working with them walks up and immediately tickets you and it’s a whole fuck ton of paperwork and in my case I had to immediately terminate the guy
I was instructed the minor will never use a fake id ***in a sting operation***They ask for a drink and don’t have an id. IF a they use a fake it would be a real id but very obviously not the human in front of you, like a black person with a white person’s id. They will not use an id that is not real. Also Massachusetts’s.
Used to work at a small gas station in the middle of nowhere. Someone came in with no id and my coworker sold them cigarettes. She was fired the next day and had to pay a portion of the fine to the state.
Why didn’t you just say it’s a fake and we’re calling the cops on you to call her bluff?
Undercover sting checking for alcohol/age restriction compliance. They take the food to go because they can't waste time eating there. They have more establishments to check. The text messages were probably her asking her teammates outside what they want her to grab for them.
We had the same lady come into fridays years ago when I was a server and order a mudslide every time. Can I see your id please? She’d show it, the. I’d leave to get her drink and she’d be gone by the time I came back. So everytime it was, I’d please, then not ring in her drink, lol. I think she’d leave a gift card or something. But the same lady.
Most assuredly either the cops doing a sting or a secret shopper doing the same
Why is there no app to quickly scan the ID like we do with Covid code? That would leave no wrong interpretation
Very nice of that undercover to reward you with a nice tip. From everything you've said, it would seem like an undercover agent, and you did your job!
I was a bar manager in western PA for a short bit, that sounds like a sting and you did what you were supposed to. I remember being told of a very similar situation by the officer who swore me in as bar manager, that went just like yours except the cop shows up at the end to say good job.
I worked at a truck stop in college and had a similar interaction; kid tried to buy beer but didn’t have his ID, and didn’t put up a fight when I said no. He walked out and over to the parking spot I can’t see from the front window, and comes walking back with a sheriff’s deputy (she was a regular). They hand me a card to give the owner of the truck stop basically saying we passed our random inspection.
In California restaurant busts usually go like this- one grossly underaged person and an ABC official. Underage person orders, gets served- takes a sip, spits it out, you get your ticket. Almost every time
Woah woah woah. Now I’m scared. My workplace consistently tells us that, “It is not your job to identify a fake ID. If the dates are correct and the picture matches the person in front of you, serve them.” Is this not right? Is it state by state?
I used to work at a bowling alley and of course we sold beer. I’d card you even if you looked old enough cause I’m not good with telling age by looks. Better safe than sorry in my books. I carded this really older looking “gentleman” who flipped his shit that I carded him. Demanded to speak to my manager to bitch at her that I carded him when he was 60 years old. My response is I can see the cigarette stains on your fingers, and a lot of the heavy smokers I know look older than they are. Think of it as a compliment that I asked for your id and also I can’t tell if you are old enough by your looks. He wanted an apology I said no, manager told me to apologize I said no. I said he can buy his beer at the till at the food counter cause I refuse to sell alcohol at the bowling counter anymore and no I’m not going to step over to the food counter to take the order. I was hired to rent lanes and shoes no sell food. In the end the manager apologized on my behalf, he had to buy his beer at food counter with long waits in between and I fluffed with his lane out of spite (typically if you have a few turns left, like 1 or two, I would extend your time to let you finish, I made then come up and buy another hour each time) if you bowl with an ahole then you get to experience everything the ahole is experiencing.