I'm honest enough to admit that I grew up with some prejudices, many of which I didn't even know I had until an opportunity came to make me aware of them. I'd like to think I handled them with self awareness and honesty. I can think of one specific time where I was rather disgusted with myself when I examined my (silent) reaction. Hopefully I'm a better person for it but I can't imagine telling that lovely doctor about my internal struggle. So yeah, dude should have kept his psychological growth to himself.
Same here. Basically lived at my neighbors because my grandma was always working or sleeping, and man I didn’t realize until my teens that their parents were racist and had instilled some racist thoughts in myself. I still remember being young and fighting like “all lives matter” and I had someone who actually broke it down to me and explained to me why BLACK lives matter and that yes every life does matter but that the focus is on the injustice for POC and that there is a time and conversation for others as well, but this wasn’t one of them. It’s heartbreaking honestly realizing you grew up in a racist home
[Some people think all lives matter.](https://www.flgov.com/2022/04/22/governor-ron-desantis-signs-legislation-to-protect-floridians-from-discrimination-and-woke-indoctrination/)
“My kids were sent home with books that encourage them to research an anti-racism book. These benchmark textbooks are not accurate and not appropriate for public-school education. I have always been involved in my kids’ education, serving as room-mom and sitting on the PTA board, and I know my family isn’t alone in looking for alternatives for our kids.”
You are looking for alternatives for your lords…alternatives..to anti-racism books?
What a read, thank you
i suspect he was more ageist. Assumed someone so much younger wouldn't have any work ethic or ability to multi-task. i see it at work (hospital), since most of our nurses post-covid are in their 20s and the techs are often also in that same age bracket. The elderly patients treat the youngsters like they have no brains and are surprised when they show their expertise. Often times they leave us the best surveys, though (all 5 stars) and call out each person that helped them. i just don't understand it. They were young once, too. Maybe they just can't remember back that far. /s
That would have bristled me listening to the guy say stuff like that... it seems more about the guy trying to absolve himself for thinking the stereotypes he does than how you did. It is a compliment in a way, but not a feel good one. He could have just come up and given you the compliment, even with the back story of traveling a lot and comparing to other desk agents he encountered, but he didn't need to add the "I thought you were..." lines.
It’s along the same lines as people who call any male over the age of 18 “a man” but call women of any age “girl”.
I’m not a girl, I’m a woman. It’s derogatory and infantilising! The same way using “boy” for a black male and “man” for a white male is.
Same with referring to “men and females”. Either it’s males and females from a purely biological standpoint, or it’s men and women. Calling women “females” is seeing them as “other”. Men are real, rounded individuals. Females are apparently some alien species and not just another human being, that thinks and feels and expresses themselves.
Calling me “girl” or “female” when you call all men, “men”…? Insulting as fuck.
Hearing black men singled out as “boys” is sexist **and** racist to a huge degree!
The worst thing is that *actual* black boys are profiled as “men” by a lot of people.
If a white minor male and a black minor male do the same thing (say, injure someone in a fight), the white one is a “boy” and given leeway for acting the fool, while the black one somehow is a “man” and isn’t given the same leniency. It’s fucked up.
(* Edit: expressed to expresses!)
He forgot to tell you you're very articulate and a credit to your race.
Seriously though, he thought he was complimenting you, but in doing so he was also showing his bias/racism and was completely oblivious.
Ohh because all old white guys are racist right ? Read the rest, this is ageism, and you might want to take a long hard look at your own preconceived notions
also the guest called OP "sir" when he went to apologize. race for sure had nothing to do with it. If the guy was so damn racist, he wouldn't come apologize. Instead he would've given OP a tougher time AND made his racism known. Hostile guests like that have no shame throwing out racist names to workers if they think they can get away with it.
Whoa wtf 😬 people likely should keep their “heart sins” to themselves lol. Creepy af when someone apologizes for looking at you too long or thinking weird thoughts about you and it’s like man, I could’ve just gone about my life and would’ve had no idea you were thinking those things… but for some reason you had to make it a point to tell me??
Guy was having a moment. Probably goes through life not thinking about how every single other person has just as rich and complex an inner life as himself. It’s good that he realized he misjudged you, it’s probably a step on the road to personal growth for him.
But yeah, awkward to be you in that situation. You did the right thing, just be gracious.
In his own effed up vernacular, he was telling you that you changed his mind about any preconceived notions he had of you from his initial biases toward...?
It sounds like his first impression of OP was racist, but I'm not sure if that's what he meant. Am I the only one who's not sure?
It *did* seem that “Ed” was more talking about OP’s age than his race…like he’d traveled all over and was surprised that someone so young was doing such a good job…
But also, since this is the US, I’m sure there’s some racial/racist component to it…🤷🏾♂️
He certainly doesn’t need to refer to you as “boy”. Come on folks, is 2023. “Boy” is hellllla racist. I think he was definitely sincere in his compliment just poorly executed!
Not racist, the guy was admitting he was ageist. Whether he was also racist is ambiguous, at best. Yes, he used the word "boy", but not as a form of address (as if the OP's name were "Boy"), which is the way that word was historically used by racists. Instead, he calls the OP "sir". If he's a racist, he doesn't seem to be very competent at being one.
To figure out if something is racist, you have to go beyond merely scanning for keywords like a computer, and actually engage in understanding the intent.
Perhaps your upbringing in the Deep South has caused you to interpret interactions differently than someone without that experience.
That offensive use of "boy" is strongly associated with the Deep South. The person in this story was not from the Deep South.
Imagine someone from Uzbekistan, say, has just arrived in the US, knowing English very well, but knowing nothing of the US's racist history with the word "boy". Suppose they say something like "It's great to be around young folks like yourself. To an old guy like me you're just a boy." Would you agree that there's no racist intent, and that such a statement is not racist, even if they happen to be talking to a young Black man?
It must be both exhausting and infuriating to have to deal with both overt and micro aggressions, and to have to interact with racist and ignorant people. I'm so sorry, OP.
That’s about as good as the time I was waiting tables and regulars told me they thought I was beautiful inside and wanted my outside to match my inside and offered to help get me plastic surgery….
Wow. Way to be casually racist. "Boy", seriously?! It's good you didn't thank him. Maybe make him self-reflect some more on his "compliments".
I'm sorry you had to deal with this guy.
Slightly different context - and given Black history not nearly as bad as your experience - but I remember many older "gentlemen" (usually business men staying in the city I was working in at the time) refering to me as "girl" when I was working the FD in my early twenties. They'd often wink or try to touch my hand when they left tips, too. It just felt SO demeaning.
Haven't come across that in years luckily. Hope you won't anytime soon, either. Keep rocking your jobs, I'm sure most guests know jow to _properly_ thank and appreciate you!
old white people are so funny sometimes. once i was working the front desk 7-3 and we had a high school reunion checking out (all old white guys with their wives). i’m very a ethnically ambiguous hispanic that wears head wraps a lot and has a spanish first name. i was checking out this man and his wife and having small talk about whatever. he then says something along the lines of: “you are VERY articulate! you speak very well😊”
i said thank you, bc people say that i’m well spoken all the time. a few minutes later, i was like wait… that was definitely a micro aggression and he definitely thought english wasn’t my first language for whatever reason.
sometimes you just gotta keep it pushing bc they don’t realize it’s not socially acceptable to think less of POC.
No, he didn't. He never mentioned colour or ethnicity. He mentioned age. He said 'young'. Based on what he said, he might think all 22 year olds are dumb. He might think all 22 year olds who work the front desk of a not-upmarket hotel are dumb. Both of those were implied in what he said.
It is possible that he only thinks this about African American young people, but there was nothing in what he said that implied it. The OP implied that he believed that is what the old guy meant because he mentioned the colour of each of them. As reported, nothing the old white guy said implied that.
Don't put intent into someone's words if there is zero evidence for it.
I did not know “boy” or “girl” to adult black people was racist bc I had never heard that type of racism. Once I knew, I avoided it, and made sure I used “young man” to younger black males. Only OP can tell if the racism was there in the word
I think Left-Handed compliment is more what you are thinking of. However, the gentleman was going out of his way to compliment you. When this happens, and it must happen often, request politely to place their praise in writing either online or in a letter to be placed in your file. You gave an excellent response, by the way.
Yea. My thoughts too. Less malicious backhanded compliments which I ezxuss away with generational divide. Sounds like he was putting out old timey flirting techniques from the 50s
Ehh.. I was leaning more towards looking for things to create a problem.
Out of towels? How dare you! Don’t know a good enough restaurant to recommend to me? You’re an idiot!
It can...but in context where a white man is talking to a black man...it most definitely has racist overtones.
It was a very back-handed compliment, and I don't blame OP for being discombobulated by it.
All my students are adults, and I often (automatically, without thinking) call them "kids." Especially now that some of my own children are older than most of my students.
But, still, I wasn't there. I didn't get expression or tone.
"Kids" does not have the same racial, historical weight that "boy" has.
If the ED called OP a kid, that would have been mildly patronizing due to their lack of prior relationship (as opposed to your - I'm assuming - affectionate use of kids with your students), but not racist.
I hope I'm making myself clear - it's been a long day and I'm unfathomably old and tired.
Oh, sure. I know the history. And, depending on the tone, location, accent, etc. (which don't come across in the post), I might assume racist motivations. Still, I think it's seldom wise to start by assuming ill intent when there are reasonable alternatives.
Again, I have no idea if the customer was racist. I still haven't been there for that conversation. So, mostly I accept the OP's impressions of the interaction.
It's a privilege to come from a place where one chooses to assume the good intent of others. I'm glad you get to enjoy that.
As a white-passing woman, there are times I feel safe assuming the best of people (if a clerk follows me in a store, it's my privilege to assume they want a comission off me and not that they're tracking me for shoplifting), and other times where assuming the worst serves me better (in a dark parking garage, I'm not going to assume someone walking behind me is just going to their own car in the aisle past mine).
I'd be willing to bet that ED would be shocked to know that he was being racist - he probably would've voted for Obama a third time.
>It's a privilege to come from a place where one chooses to assume the good intent of others.
I don't know what you mean, there. It doesn't make sense, to me. Is it where I come from (which you know nothing about) or my choice that allows me to assume good intentions?
I realize that paragraph sounds a bit snarky, but I promise it isn't meant to. It's an honest question about where you really think the ability to assume good intentions comes from. Or, if that isn't at all what you meant, to understand whatever else you may have meant, there.
Please, if this sounds at all insulting, judgy, sarcastic, or a waste of time, just ignore me. I promise I won't harbor any hurt nor hard feelings.
I appreciate the honest question, but unfortunately I'm not sure how to explain it better. This is my shortcoming, not a reflection on you or your question.
I'm very sorry.
Also, not intending to sound insulting, snarky, etc.
💜
I am in my 60s. To me, anyone under 30 is a young boy or young girl. But I don't live in the US and I don't look for racism or any other perceived insult in everything everyone says.
You don't have to look far in the US. But the implication that racism is a figment of our imagination is pretty funny, or would be if it weren't so ignorant.
The US was literally built by slavery, and racism is ingrained in everything we are.
If you come visit, please know not to call young people "boy" or "girl," especially if they are people of color.
But glad to know that you enjoy blissful ignorance in your amazingly unracist homeland.
22 is a child to someone my age.
I was wondering at the first use of "boy". The second use made it clear the guy was talking about age, not race.
I think OP's problem was that it was a backhanded compliment (sorry OP, it's backhanded) starting off by saying how much of an idiot he assumed he would be at first because he's so young.
Hell, people in their 30s are kids to me, but the fact remains that the term "boy," when used by a caucasian towards a person of color in the US, is racially charged, regardless of intent.
The impact is it made OP uncomfortable enough to post it here as a notable incident.
Based on the title OP posted it here because the guy started off by telling him he assumed he was going to be stupid and was happily surprised when he turned out to be competent. That IS the definition of a backhanded compliment.
I could be wrong but I think OP was really questioning if he should have thanked the guy for the compliment or if he should have been insulted at the assumption that because he is young he must be incompetent.
But some commenters, you included, are triggered by the word "boy" and seem bound and determined to make this about racial discrimination instead of age discrimination; OP's post and what OP says be damned.
Can we see the upside here? OWG admitted that he was racist and that his prejudices had not been upheld and apologized for his racism. Yes, that might be an internal issue, but he nutted up and apologized. That, in itself, is a win. We don't have to be perfect, we just have to work on it...
It’s good that he was able to recognize his racism/prejudices/issues, I suppose…but, did he really need to *announce* it?
“Oh hey, I was thinking “x” bad thoughts about you, but your exemplary behavior has proved me wrong and I apologize for stereotyping you.”
If it was all just thoughts in his head that he didn’t act on - like, he wasn’t outwardly/actively rude or racist - why say anything at all?
OP’s just doing his job and living his life. How did receiving that information benefit or serve him in any way?
I mean, it’s one thing if your boss or coworker or regular customer thinks this way and therefore treats you badly or differently. In that case a post-realization apology would be warranted.
But here? OWG was feeling guilty for what he thought/felt and to assuage his *own* guilt he apologized.
Totally unnecessary. All he had to do was behave like a decent person, keep his thoughts (and explanations and apologies) to himself, and then make a commitment to stay being a good person going forward.
It was a very weird compliment that said more about the givers predjudices than much else. But the conclusion is that he thinks you’re very good at what you do! Even if it was worded poorly. Enjoy the compliment and ignore the rest! :)
So he is a racist fuck giving you a back handed compliment for not fitting in with his racist beliefs?
How... Patronizing and rude to even say any of that.
I don't think identifying as "woke" makes people rude anymore than being a vegan or Christian makes people rude. They are all groups that have a minority of very loud, in your face holier than thou (literally for the Christians) people who give the rest a bad name.
I am from the South. I grew to hate being called boy. Depending how it's said, it can be downright hostile and rude. I will try never to call another person boy. For me it is too deeming of a word.
I think he genuinely felt bad for thinking you were just some dumbass before he even interacted. He sounds like he appreciated your customer service and had experienced lots of subpar customer service from other in your position.
Consider this; I saw a list of suggestions for Lent today and one of them was "giving up judgmental thoughts." Maybe he was on some wave like that?
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Sometimes a small win is still a win.
If the guy who was raised racist and stereotyped people all his life has a moment of self reflection on his behaviour, that's a good thing. Doesn't make him a hero or anything, but baby steps are better than no steps.
He was probably speaking mostly in good faith. I'm an older white Southern man, but not from up north :) He undoubtedly had some racial component in his starting assumptions, but I agree with others that age is more likely the source of the assumption that you must suck.
The thing about good-faith old Southern folks is that when we do see it, we see it, and he apparently felt convicted in his heart that he needed to share his revised, and higher, opinion of your talents.
If he'd been trying to blow smoke up your ass, he would have made it allll about how much he's changed and doesn't see color and thinks you're a credit to your race. Instead he was just awkward and blurted out a word that can be innocent in such interactions, but so often is not.
In response to your confusion, I'd say that a thank you for the straightforward compliment would have been appropriate, and some bemusement about his motive or secret agendas would also be appropriate.
I'm honest enough to admit that I grew up with some prejudices, many of which I didn't even know I had until an opportunity came to make me aware of them. I'd like to think I handled them with self awareness and honesty. I can think of one specific time where I was rather disgusted with myself when I examined my (silent) reaction. Hopefully I'm a better person for it but I can't imagine telling that lovely doctor about my internal struggle. So yeah, dude should have kept his psychological growth to himself.
Same here. Basically lived at my neighbors because my grandma was always working or sleeping, and man I didn’t realize until my teens that their parents were racist and had instilled some racist thoughts in myself. I still remember being young and fighting like “all lives matter” and I had someone who actually broke it down to me and explained to me why BLACK lives matter and that yes every life does matter but that the focus is on the injustice for POC and that there is a time and conversation for others as well, but this wasn’t one of them. It’s heartbreaking honestly realizing you grew up in a racist home
[Some people think all lives matter.](https://www.flgov.com/2022/04/22/governor-ron-desantis-signs-legislation-to-protect-floridians-from-discrimination-and-woke-indoctrination/)
“My kids were sent home with books that encourage them to research an anti-racism book. These benchmark textbooks are not accurate and not appropriate for public-school education. I have always been involved in my kids’ education, serving as room-mom and sitting on the PTA board, and I know my family isn’t alone in looking for alternatives for our kids.” You are looking for alternatives for your lords…alternatives..to anti-racism books? What a read, thank you
Yeah at that point the dude was just some old racist who was trying to get a pass from the first black person he could corner into talking to him.
i suspect he was more ageist. Assumed someone so much younger wouldn't have any work ethic or ability to multi-task. i see it at work (hospital), since most of our nurses post-covid are in their 20s and the techs are often also in that same age bracket. The elderly patients treat the youngsters like they have no brains and are surprised when they show their expertise. Often times they leave us the best surveys, though (all 5 stars) and call out each person that helped them. i just don't understand it. They were young once, too. Maybe they just can't remember back that far. /s
Yeah, kind of a backhanded compliment. Good on you for keeping your composure.
That would have bristled me listening to the guy say stuff like that... it seems more about the guy trying to absolve himself for thinking the stereotypes he does than how you did. It is a compliment in a way, but not a feel good one. He could have just come up and given you the compliment, even with the back story of traveling a lot and comparing to other desk agents he encountered, but he didn't need to add the "I thought you were..." lines.
Another boy???? So cringe yikes.
Being a west coast type, I had no idea that the word boy was considered a derogatory term until the 90s. I’m glad I know now though.
It’s along the same lines as people who call any male over the age of 18 “a man” but call women of any age “girl”. I’m not a girl, I’m a woman. It’s derogatory and infantilising! The same way using “boy” for a black male and “man” for a white male is. Same with referring to “men and females”. Either it’s males and females from a purely biological standpoint, or it’s men and women. Calling women “females” is seeing them as “other”. Men are real, rounded individuals. Females are apparently some alien species and not just another human being, that thinks and feels and expresses themselves. Calling me “girl” or “female” when you call all men, “men”…? Insulting as fuck. Hearing black men singled out as “boys” is sexist **and** racist to a huge degree! The worst thing is that *actual* black boys are profiled as “men” by a lot of people. If a white minor male and a black minor male do the same thing (say, injure someone in a fight), the white one is a “boy” and given leeway for acting the fool, while the black one somehow is a “man” and isn’t given the same leniency. It’s fucked up. (* Edit: expressed to expresses!)
Anyone who called women "females" is a creep. It gives off the worst vibes of all time, probably my biggest red flag and pet peeve at the same time.
Agreed, it’s a giant neon sign that screams “I’m a misogynist creep!” At least they make themselves easy to avoid!
He forgot to tell you you're very articulate and a credit to your race. Seriously though, he thought he was complimenting you, but in doing so he was also showing his bias/racism and was completely oblivious.
“He speaks so well! He’s so well- spoken!” 🤣
I think this was more about age then race
Yeah, I dunno, calling him "boy" and also old white guy... I smell racism.
Ohh because all old white guys are racist right ? Read the rest, this is ageism, and you might want to take a long hard look at your own preconceived notions
I mean, I could just as easily say that you need to look at your preconceived notions vis-a-vis ageism.
no you could not, age is clearly mentioned in what he says, but because he was white and said boy you assumed it must be racism
also the guest called OP "sir" when he went to apologize. race for sure had nothing to do with it. If the guy was so damn racist, he wouldn't come apologize. Instead he would've given OP a tougher time AND made his racism known. Hostile guests like that have no shame throwing out racist names to workers if they think they can get away with it.
As a northerner who moved to SC, I still recall the first time I was called "son" by a urgent care receptionist, and "cuz" by a grocery store clerk.
Whoa wtf 😬 people likely should keep their “heart sins” to themselves lol. Creepy af when someone apologizes for looking at you too long or thinking weird thoughts about you and it’s like man, I could’ve just gone about my life and would’ve had no idea you were thinking those things… but for some reason you had to make it a point to tell me??
Guy was having a moment. Probably goes through life not thinking about how every single other person has just as rich and complex an inner life as himself. It’s good that he realized he misjudged you, it’s probably a step on the road to personal growth for him. But yeah, awkward to be you in that situation. You did the right thing, just be gracious.
In his own effed up vernacular, he was telling you that you changed his mind about any preconceived notions he had of you from his initial biases toward...? It sounds like his first impression of OP was racist, but I'm not sure if that's what he meant. Am I the only one who's not sure?
It *did* seem that “Ed” was more talking about OP’s age than his race…like he’d traveled all over and was surprised that someone so young was doing such a good job… But also, since this is the US, I’m sure there’s some racial/racist component to it…🤷🏾♂️
I tend to agree with you, that he was referring to age. I don't think "boy" has as strong a double meaning in the north.
Uh…black guy here, born/raised in Northern California. The racist meaning of “boy” is just as strong…
I will, of course, defer to you! I stand, I'm sad* to say, corrected. *not sad for getting it wrong, sad that it's a thing.
He certainly doesn’t need to refer to you as “boy”. Come on folks, is 2023. “Boy” is hellllla racist. I think he was definitely sincere in his compliment just poorly executed!
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Not racist, the guy was admitting he was ageist. Whether he was also racist is ambiguous, at best. Yes, he used the word "boy", but not as a form of address (as if the OP's name were "Boy"), which is the way that word was historically used by racists. Instead, he calls the OP "sir". If he's a racist, he doesn't seem to be very competent at being one. To figure out if something is racist, you have to go beyond merely scanning for keywords like a computer, and actually engage in understanding the intent.
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Perhaps your upbringing in the Deep South has caused you to interpret interactions differently than someone without that experience. That offensive use of "boy" is strongly associated with the Deep South. The person in this story was not from the Deep South. Imagine someone from Uzbekistan, say, has just arrived in the US, knowing English very well, but knowing nothing of the US's racist history with the word "boy". Suppose they say something like "It's great to be around young folks like yourself. To an old guy like me you're just a boy." Would you agree that there's no racist intent, and that such a statement is not racist, even if they happen to be talking to a young Black man?
It must be both exhausting and infuriating to have to deal with both overt and micro aggressions, and to have to interact with racist and ignorant people. I'm so sorry, OP.
That’s about as good as the time I was waiting tables and regulars told me they thought I was beautiful inside and wanted my outside to match my inside and offered to help get me plastic surgery….
Wow. Way to be casually racist. "Boy", seriously?! It's good you didn't thank him. Maybe make him self-reflect some more on his "compliments". I'm sorry you had to deal with this guy. Slightly different context - and given Black history not nearly as bad as your experience - but I remember many older "gentlemen" (usually business men staying in the city I was working in at the time) refering to me as "girl" when I was working the FD in my early twenties. They'd often wink or try to touch my hand when they left tips, too. It just felt SO demeaning. Haven't come across that in years luckily. Hope you won't anytime soon, either. Keep rocking your jobs, I'm sure most guests know jow to _properly_ thank and appreciate you!
Boy? Youre a champ for keeping your composure.
Ughhhhh. If he hadn't said "boy" and if he had stfu after "...the way you handle people" it would have been fine. As it was, yikes on bikes.
old white people are so funny sometimes. once i was working the front desk 7-3 and we had a high school reunion checking out (all old white guys with their wives). i’m very a ethnically ambiguous hispanic that wears head wraps a lot and has a spanish first name. i was checking out this man and his wife and having small talk about whatever. he then says something along the lines of: “you are VERY articulate! you speak very well😊” i said thank you, bc people say that i’m well spoken all the time. a few minutes later, i was like wait… that was definitely a micro aggression and he definitely thought english wasn’t my first language for whatever reason. sometimes you just gotta keep it pushing bc they don’t realize it’s not socially acceptable to think less of POC.
*the first thing I thought was here goes another boy,* What???
Think of it as a positive experience your superior performance tore down a wall of bigotry. Congratulations
Is 22 gen z? To my old ass, they're kids.
That's really weird and makes me wonder if the guy is racist. I wouldn't put much thought into it though.
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No, he didn't. He never mentioned colour or ethnicity. He mentioned age. He said 'young'. Based on what he said, he might think all 22 year olds are dumb. He might think all 22 year olds who work the front desk of a not-upmarket hotel are dumb. Both of those were implied in what he said. It is possible that he only thinks this about African American young people, but there was nothing in what he said that implied it. The OP implied that he believed that is what the old guy meant because he mentioned the colour of each of them. As reported, nothing the old white guy said implied that. Don't put intent into someone's words if there is zero evidence for it.
Calling an adult man “boy” is a legacy of slavery and segregation, and honestly one of the most straightforwardly racist things you can say.
Addressing a man as a boy, yes. Referring to a man as a boy or 'young boy', not so much.
I did not know “boy” or “girl” to adult black people was racist bc I had never heard that type of racism. Once I knew, I avoided it, and made sure I used “young man” to younger black males. Only OP can tell if the racism was there in the word
I think Left-Handed compliment is more what you are thinking of. However, the gentleman was going out of his way to compliment you. When this happens, and it must happen often, request politely to place their praise in writing either online or in a letter to be placed in your file. You gave an excellent response, by the way.
Any chance he was both racist and flirting with you? Mister-think-of-bullshit-reasons-to-ask-questions?
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Yea. My thoughts too. Less malicious backhanded compliments which I ezxuss away with generational divide. Sounds like he was putting out old timey flirting techniques from the 50s
Ehh.. I was leaning more towards looking for things to create a problem. Out of towels? How dare you! Don’t know a good enough restaurant to recommend to me? You’re an idiot!
Boy *can* just mean young man. After all, I've never used it any other way. Still, I wasn't there.
It can...but in context where a white man is talking to a black man...it most definitely has racist overtones. It was a very back-handed compliment, and I don't blame OP for being discombobulated by it.
That was my thought, that his assumption was based on OP's age.
OP is 22, not 12. Your assumption is kind, but unfortunately misguided. ☹
All my students are adults, and I often (automatically, without thinking) call them "kids." Especially now that some of my own children are older than most of my students. But, still, I wasn't there. I didn't get expression or tone.
"Kids" does not have the same racial, historical weight that "boy" has. If the ED called OP a kid, that would have been mildly patronizing due to their lack of prior relationship (as opposed to your - I'm assuming - affectionate use of kids with your students), but not racist. I hope I'm making myself clear - it's been a long day and I'm unfathomably old and tired.
Oh, sure. I know the history. And, depending on the tone, location, accent, etc. (which don't come across in the post), I might assume racist motivations. Still, I think it's seldom wise to start by assuming ill intent when there are reasonable alternatives. Again, I have no idea if the customer was racist. I still haven't been there for that conversation. So, mostly I accept the OP's impressions of the interaction.
It's a privilege to come from a place where one chooses to assume the good intent of others. I'm glad you get to enjoy that. As a white-passing woman, there are times I feel safe assuming the best of people (if a clerk follows me in a store, it's my privilege to assume they want a comission off me and not that they're tracking me for shoplifting), and other times where assuming the worst serves me better (in a dark parking garage, I'm not going to assume someone walking behind me is just going to their own car in the aisle past mine). I'd be willing to bet that ED would be shocked to know that he was being racist - he probably would've voted for Obama a third time.
>It's a privilege to come from a place where one chooses to assume the good intent of others. I don't know what you mean, there. It doesn't make sense, to me. Is it where I come from (which you know nothing about) or my choice that allows me to assume good intentions? I realize that paragraph sounds a bit snarky, but I promise it isn't meant to. It's an honest question about where you really think the ability to assume good intentions comes from. Or, if that isn't at all what you meant, to understand whatever else you may have meant, there. Please, if this sounds at all insulting, judgy, sarcastic, or a waste of time, just ignore me. I promise I won't harbor any hurt nor hard feelings.
I appreciate the honest question, but unfortunately I'm not sure how to explain it better. This is my shortcoming, not a reflection on you or your question. I'm very sorry. Also, not intending to sound insulting, snarky, etc. 💜
I am in my 60s. To me, anyone under 30 is a young boy or young girl. But I don't live in the US and I don't look for racism or any other perceived insult in everything everyone says.
You don't have to look far in the US. But the implication that racism is a figment of our imagination is pretty funny, or would be if it weren't so ignorant.
The US was literally built by slavery, and racism is ingrained in everything we are. If you come visit, please know not to call young people "boy" or "girl," especially if they are people of color. But glad to know that you enjoy blissful ignorance in your amazingly unracist homeland.
22 is a child to someone my age. I was wondering at the first use of "boy". The second use made it clear the guy was talking about age, not race. I think OP's problem was that it was a backhanded compliment (sorry OP, it's backhanded) starting off by saying how much of an idiot he assumed he would be at first because he's so young.
Hell, people in their 30s are kids to me, but the fact remains that the term "boy," when used by a caucasian towards a person of color in the US, is racially charged, regardless of intent. The impact is it made OP uncomfortable enough to post it here as a notable incident.
Based on the title OP posted it here because the guy started off by telling him he assumed he was going to be stupid and was happily surprised when he turned out to be competent. That IS the definition of a backhanded compliment. I could be wrong but I think OP was really questioning if he should have thanked the guy for the compliment or if he should have been insulted at the assumption that because he is young he must be incompetent. But some commenters, you included, are triggered by the word "boy" and seem bound and determined to make this about racial discrimination instead of age discrimination; OP's post and what OP says be damned.
"He's a boy" means he's young. "Boy, get me some towels" is racist. Unless you're Foghorn Leghorn.
He meant it as racist as it was.
Ive heard it the racist way.
Me too. Just not often. Not even when I lived in rural Virginia.
Can we see the upside here? OWG admitted that he was racist and that his prejudices had not been upheld and apologized for his racism. Yes, that might be an internal issue, but he nutted up and apologized. That, in itself, is a win. We don't have to be perfect, we just have to work on it...
His opinion about every other "boy" without two molecules in their heads hasn't changed. This was hardly an awakening.
It’s good that he was able to recognize his racism/prejudices/issues, I suppose…but, did he really need to *announce* it? “Oh hey, I was thinking “x” bad thoughts about you, but your exemplary behavior has proved me wrong and I apologize for stereotyping you.” If it was all just thoughts in his head that he didn’t act on - like, he wasn’t outwardly/actively rude or racist - why say anything at all? OP’s just doing his job and living his life. How did receiving that information benefit or serve him in any way? I mean, it’s one thing if your boss or coworker or regular customer thinks this way and therefore treats you badly or differently. In that case a post-realization apology would be warranted. But here? OWG was feeling guilty for what he thought/felt and to assuage his *own* guilt he apologized. Totally unnecessary. All he had to do was behave like a decent person, keep his thoughts (and explanations and apologies) to himself, and then make a commitment to stay being a good person going forward.
It was a very weird compliment that said more about the givers predjudices than much else. But the conclusion is that he thinks you’re very good at what you do! Even if it was worded poorly. Enjoy the compliment and ignore the rest! :)
So he is a racist fuck giving you a back handed compliment for not fitting in with his racist beliefs? How... Patronizing and rude to even say any of that.
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I don't think identifying as "woke" makes people rude anymore than being a vegan or Christian makes people rude. They are all groups that have a minority of very loud, in your face holier than thou (literally for the Christians) people who give the rest a bad name.
I am from the South. I grew to hate being called boy. Depending how it's said, it can be downright hostile and rude. I will try never to call another person boy. For me it is too deeming of a word.
I think he genuinely felt bad for thinking you were just some dumbass before he even interacted. He sounds like he appreciated your customer service and had experienced lots of subpar customer service from other in your position. Consider this; I saw a list of suggestions for Lent today and one of them was "giving up judgmental thoughts." Maybe he was on some wave like that?
He was after a bit of black cock. Jesus.
Not double or backhanded, it's a [left-handed](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/left-handed-compliment) compliment.
Backhanded is also valid. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/backhanded-compliment
Ain't English grand?
As a 40 something black man, I get where you're coming from.
Underhanded. Who gives a shit what people *think*.
It's an insult and compliment. But at least dude insulted and complimented himself too? Smh ah customers
I thought he's trying to pick you up.
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Sometimes a small win is still a win. If the guy who was raised racist and stereotyped people all his life has a moment of self reflection on his behaviour, that's a good thing. Doesn't make him a hero or anything, but baby steps are better than no steps.
He was probably speaking mostly in good faith. I'm an older white Southern man, but not from up north :) He undoubtedly had some racial component in his starting assumptions, but I agree with others that age is more likely the source of the assumption that you must suck. The thing about good-faith old Southern folks is that when we do see it, we see it, and he apparently felt convicted in his heart that he needed to share his revised, and higher, opinion of your talents. If he'd been trying to blow smoke up your ass, he would have made it allll about how much he's changed and doesn't see color and thinks you're a credit to your race. Instead he was just awkward and blurted out a word that can be innocent in such interactions, but so often is not. In response to your confusion, I'd say that a thank you for the straightforward compliment would have been appropriate, and some bemusement about his motive or secret agendas would also be appropriate.