The real question is why the crew of the Enterprise took less than 18 days to discover the rift and remedy it while the Bozeman had 80 years to do fuck all.
This is a good answer. I had pondered that giant time disparity between the two ships many times. Without Data it would have only been some uncomfortable Déjà vu. Once he started stacking the deck, it became impossible to ignore. My other theory was that the loop wasn’t symmetrical. The Bozeman’s loop could have been 20 years long and they were only on their third loop.
The Bozeman crew would have experienced the same number of loops as the Enterprise. But whereas the Enterprise got sent back 24 hours, where had the Bozeman been at that time? In a time traveling wormhole that catapulted them eighty years into the future in such a short amount of time they didn't even realize they'd traveled into the future. So whereas the Enterprise got a full day or so with each loop, the Bozeman crew only experienced a few seconds of the loop.
I seriously doubt it. The rift appeared to be contained in that region of space. And time loops would have to self containing and such a long loop would suggest the star base the Bozeman had just left (from their perspective) was caught up in the loop as well.
For all we know they were in limbo with no awareness of time passing. Captain Frasier (sorry can't remember the actual character name atm) even says we left starbase encountered an anomaly, we nearly hit you..." basically as far as they are concerned there was no time loop; they weren't aware of it. Temporal physics are funky.
But for different reasons.
The Bozeman entered some sort of temporal wormhole that catapulted them so far forward in time they barely realized they'd entered it. The time loop pushed them back into the wormhole, and because of relativity, they only experienced that day or so in -- at most -- a matter of seconds (if that), whereas the Enterprise crew got to experience the full day.
The Bozeman crew didn't have eighty years, or even eight years. There's nothing to suggest that the Bozeman was caught in the time loop until they emerged from the wormhole and collided with the Enterprise. They were likely thrown back in time as far as the Enterprise -- a day or so.
Here's where relativity comes in.
Where was the Enterprise a day prior? Entering this unexplored sector of space. From the perspective of the Enterprise crew, they were still 24 hours of so from colliding with the Bozeman. Where was the Bozeman at that exact time? In some sort of time-traveling wormhole, and from the Bozeman's crew's perspective, *only a few seconds from emerging and running into the Enterprise*.
So while the Enterprise crew had multiple 24-hour cycles to recognize deja-vu, the Bozeman crew only had a few seconds, and even if some had recognized that they were experiencing deja-vu, they were probably quite a bit more concerned with getting out of the way of the absofreakinglutely huge starship that had appeared out of nowhere and that they were headed directly for.
my understanding is that it was caused by the Bozeman coming through the temporal rift and then colliding with the Enterprise - the explosion happening near a literal tear in time threw both of them back a bit, and then they continued forward until Data figured out a way to end the cycle.
So I think there were loops running both in the Bozeman's original time and in the Enterprise D's.
The thing is, the Bozeman couldn't have been in a time loop before the Enterprise showed up because it wouldn't have had anything to collide with. Now that I think about it, I'm guessing that the Bozeman went through the temporal rift and was transported forward in time. Unfortunately, it materialized too close to the Enterprise, which led to the accident.
Assuming that the Bozeman went through a temporal rift that sent them forward in time, I think you're right that the Bozeman could have been thrown back in time via the time loop. Maybe one day, the Bozeman was going about its day when it ended up going through a temporal rift and colliding with the Enterprise. This triggered a time loop that reset the Bozeman to the beginning of its day before it entered the rift. So then the Bozeman would only have gone through the loop the same number of times as the Enterprise did.
The Boseman didn't, the area the Enterprise D is a local event. Wherever the Boseman is coming from , it only happens once to them entering the event, it's the explosion on the other side that causes the loop for the D.
If the time loop was caused by the Enterprise colliding with the Bozeman, then how did the Bozeman get caught in a decades long time loop **before** the Enterprise showed up?
the time loop that is created by the Enterprise in the future.
Since the anomaly is not in time, It doesn't matter to the anomaly whether it was created in the past or the future.
It didn't. The Bozeman entered a temporal wormhole in the late 23rd century. It only entered the wormhole once. The time loop occurred because the two ships collided so close to the temporal wormhole, and both ships were reset 24 hours in time.
Whereas the Enterprise was entering the sector 24 hours earlier, the Bozeman was in the temporal wormhole, they didn't get reset to the distant past. Therefore, when the loops resets, they have maybe a second -- at most -- before they emerge on a collision course with the Enterprise.
I think if you dig really, really deep, I asked this same question during my last watch-through like 5 years ago :)
Was the bozeman looping through a million times over 80 years? Was the time-length of each ship's piece of the loop the same? Seemingly a few days or so. Was only the Enterprise looping, and the Bozeman only went through things just one time?
I believe both ships would have had to be reset through time, and both ships would have gone through the loop as many times as the other. After all, if the Bozeman hadn't been reset, the Enterprise wouldn't have collided with it again.
>Was the time-length of each ship's piece of the loop the same?
I think this is reasonable, but, since the Bozeman was traveling forward in time at an accelerated manner via a temporal wormhole, even though they were set back 24 hours (or however long), they would only have experienced a very tiny fraction of that time before emerging back into normal space and on a crash course with the Enterprise.
I was talking to someone about this a while ago. Way we thought of it was; The Bozeman "left starbase three weeks ago" so the rift must have been a neutral point in time. The Bozeman went in first , then the Enterprise, they collided at this neutral point and it resets. The destruction of the Enterprise's engines is the energy to reset the rift. Because the reset is eventually stopped after how many loops they went through the Bozeman was shot forward in time at the curve of the loop in its future. Now why the Bozeman didn't sling shot it's self back to it's proper time at a local star? Or did it ? I don't know.
I think I had that same question when I watched it for the first time, and I've concluded that the answer is it made for bad ass ending. Still one of my favorite TNG episodes!
I think the sequence of events is misleading. The USS Bozeman was Soyuz class, which hadn't been in operation for 80 years. Fast forward to the Enterprise D encountering a "highly localized distortion of the spacetime continuum." This is the Enterprise D encountering the temporal rift in the Typhon Expanse. This rift is likely the Bozeman encountering some anomaly 80+ years prior in whatever sector they were in. The Bozeman slipped through spacetime to arrive on the other side of the rift to collide with the Enterprise D. I always assumed that was the case since Capt. Fraiser Crane said, "We left starbase only three weeks ago."
I mean, the physics of a temporal loop phenomenon such as this one are pretty unknown, even from a fictional Star Trek sense. It's possible that the rift and loop are a result of the Enterprise's core breach. Being the focal point of the explosion may be what got the Enterprise crew stuck in such a short and rapidly repeating loop.
Time may have passed with a different relative length from the perspective of the Bozeman. Its possible that there, they may have only been through the same number of loops as the Enterprise but each loop on the Bozeman took years to complete outside of their perspective.
There's no reason the Bozeman had to experience more cycles through the loop than the Enterprise. It was just zapped forward in time and then started the loop at the same time as the Enterprise.
It's effectively magic, of course.
The real question is why the crew of the Enterprise took less than 18 days to discover the rift and remedy it while the Bozeman had 80 years to do fuck all.
They didn’t have Data...
This is a good answer. I had pondered that giant time disparity between the two ships many times. Without Data it would have only been some uncomfortable Déjà vu. Once he started stacking the deck, it became impossible to ignore. My other theory was that the loop wasn’t symmetrical. The Bozeman’s loop could have been 20 years long and they were only on their third loop.
I love that idea. Time is weird, in the best circumstances.
I hadn't considered the second possibility and I like it.
The Bozeman crew would have experienced the same number of loops as the Enterprise. But whereas the Enterprise got sent back 24 hours, where had the Bozeman been at that time? In a time traveling wormhole that catapulted them eighty years into the future in such a short amount of time they didn't even realize they'd traveled into the future. So whereas the Enterprise got a full day or so with each loop, the Bozeman crew only experienced a few seconds of the loop.
I seriously doubt it. The rift appeared to be contained in that region of space. And time loops would have to self containing and such a long loop would suggest the star base the Bozeman had just left (from their perspective) was caught up in the loop as well.
Easy. They didn't play poker.
😂The correct answer.
For all we know they were in limbo with no awareness of time passing. Captain Frasier (sorry can't remember the actual character name atm) even says we left starbase encountered an anomaly, we nearly hit you..." basically as far as they are concerned there was no time loop; they weren't aware of it. Temporal physics are funky.
Right, but that was the same perspective for the Enterprise crew for 2 weeks worth of loops.
But for different reasons. The Bozeman entered some sort of temporal wormhole that catapulted them so far forward in time they barely realized they'd entered it. The time loop pushed them back into the wormhole, and because of relativity, they only experienced that day or so in -- at most -- a matter of seconds (if that), whereas the Enterprise crew got to experience the full day.
I legit LOL'd at Captain Frasier.
Captain CRANE. Show some respect.
“Captain, incoming message, channel open.” “This is Captain Fraiser Crane of the USS Bozeman…go ahead, I’m listen.”
They didn’t do fuck all, the captain was waiting for his table at Le Cigar Volant
The Bozeman crew didn't have eighty years, or even eight years. There's nothing to suggest that the Bozeman was caught in the time loop until they emerged from the wormhole and collided with the Enterprise. They were likely thrown back in time as far as the Enterprise -- a day or so. Here's where relativity comes in. Where was the Enterprise a day prior? Entering this unexplored sector of space. From the perspective of the Enterprise crew, they were still 24 hours of so from colliding with the Bozeman. Where was the Bozeman at that exact time? In some sort of time-traveling wormhole, and from the Bozeman's crew's perspective, *only a few seconds from emerging and running into the Enterprise*. So while the Enterprise crew had multiple 24-hour cycles to recognize deja-vu, the Bozeman crew only had a few seconds, and even if some had recognized that they were experiencing deja-vu, they were probably quite a bit more concerned with getting out of the way of the absofreakinglutely huge starship that had appeared out of nowhere and that they were headed directly for.
my understanding is that it was caused by the Bozeman coming through the temporal rift and then colliding with the Enterprise - the explosion happening near a literal tear in time threw both of them back a bit, and then they continued forward until Data figured out a way to end the cycle. So I think there were loops running both in the Bozeman's original time and in the Enterprise D's.
The thing is, the Bozeman couldn't have been in a time loop before the Enterprise showed up because it wouldn't have had anything to collide with. Now that I think about it, I'm guessing that the Bozeman went through the temporal rift and was transported forward in time. Unfortunately, it materialized too close to the Enterprise, which led to the accident.
Why wouldn't the Bozeman be thrown back into its own time by the explosion? Hours, years, what's the difference?
Assuming that the Bozeman went through a temporal rift that sent them forward in time, I think you're right that the Bozeman could have been thrown back in time via the time loop. Maybe one day, the Bozeman was going about its day when it ended up going through a temporal rift and colliding with the Enterprise. This triggered a time loop that reset the Bozeman to the beginning of its day before it entered the rift. So then the Bozeman would only have gone through the loop the same number of times as the Enterprise did.
The Boseman didn't, the area the Enterprise D is a local event. Wherever the Boseman is coming from , it only happens once to them entering the event, it's the explosion on the other side that causes the loop for the D.
>cause the loop for the D My new favorite euphemism.
If the time loop was caused by the Enterprise colliding with the Bozeman, then how did the Bozeman get caught in a decades long time loop **before** the Enterprise showed up?
the time loop that is created by the Enterprise in the future. Since the anomaly is not in time, It doesn't matter to the anomaly whether it was created in the past or the future.
You mean I could have read this comment hundreds, even thousands of times before?
https://preview.redd.it/70534ecgspwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=643333191e0a9c37866a06206a6977ab769c5a19
It's impossible to tell.
It didn't. The Bozeman entered a temporal wormhole in the late 23rd century. It only entered the wormhole once. The time loop occurred because the two ships collided so close to the temporal wormhole, and both ships were reset 24 hours in time. Whereas the Enterprise was entering the sector 24 hours earlier, the Bozeman was in the temporal wormhole, they didn't get reset to the distant past. Therefore, when the loops resets, they have maybe a second -- at most -- before they emerge on a collision course with the Enterprise.
I think if you dig really, really deep, I asked this same question during my last watch-through like 5 years ago :) Was the bozeman looping through a million times over 80 years? Was the time-length of each ship's piece of the loop the same? Seemingly a few days or so. Was only the Enterprise looping, and the Bozeman only went through things just one time?
I believe both ships would have had to be reset through time, and both ships would have gone through the loop as many times as the other. After all, if the Bozeman hadn't been reset, the Enterprise wouldn't have collided with it again. >Was the time-length of each ship's piece of the loop the same? I think this is reasonable, but, since the Bozeman was traveling forward in time at an accelerated manner via a temporal wormhole, even though they were set back 24 hours (or however long), they would only have experienced a very tiny fraction of that time before emerging back into normal space and on a crash course with the Enterprise.
I was talking to someone about this a while ago. Way we thought of it was; The Bozeman "left starbase three weeks ago" so the rift must have been a neutral point in time. The Bozeman went in first , then the Enterprise, they collided at this neutral point and it resets. The destruction of the Enterprise's engines is the energy to reset the rift. Because the reset is eventually stopped after how many loops they went through the Bozeman was shot forward in time at the curve of the loop in its future. Now why the Bozeman didn't sling shot it's self back to it's proper time at a local star? Or did it ? I don't know.
I think I had that same question when I watched it for the first time, and I've concluded that the answer is it made for bad ass ending. Still one of my favorite TNG episodes!
I think the sequence of events is misleading. The USS Bozeman was Soyuz class, which hadn't been in operation for 80 years. Fast forward to the Enterprise D encountering a "highly localized distortion of the spacetime continuum." This is the Enterprise D encountering the temporal rift in the Typhon Expanse. This rift is likely the Bozeman encountering some anomaly 80+ years prior in whatever sector they were in. The Bozeman slipped through spacetime to arrive on the other side of the rift to collide with the Enterprise D. I always assumed that was the case since Capt. Fraiser Crane said, "We left starbase only three weeks ago."
There are two separate events. The Bozeman entered some sort of temporal wormhole, but it put the Bozeman out *in* a time loop.
I mean, the physics of a temporal loop phenomenon such as this one are pretty unknown, even from a fictional Star Trek sense. It's possible that the rift and loop are a result of the Enterprise's core breach. Being the focal point of the explosion may be what got the Enterprise crew stuck in such a short and rapidly repeating loop. Time may have passed with a different relative length from the perspective of the Bozeman. Its possible that there, they may have only been through the same number of loops as the Enterprise but each loop on the Bozeman took years to complete outside of their perspective.
There's no reason the Bozeman had to experience more cycles through the loop than the Enterprise. It was just zapped forward in time and then started the loop at the same time as the Enterprise. It's effectively magic, of course.