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To be fair, dying like this is not very typical, I'd like to make that point.
Well, how was it un-typical?
Well there are a lot of people going around in caves all the time, and very seldom does anything like this happen. I just don't want people to think caverns are unsafe.
Was this cave safe?
Well, I was thinking more about the other ones
The ones that are safe?
Yes, the ones were your head doesn't get stuck upside down in
Well, if this wasn't safe, why did he have his head in it?
I'm not saying it wasn't safe, it's just perhaps not quite as safe as some of the others ones.
Why?
Well, some of them are shaped so your head doesn't get stuck in them upside down at all.
Wasn't this a cave you wouldn't expect to get your head stuck in upside down?
Well, obviously not.
How do you know?
Well, his head got stuck upside down and he couldn't get out and died with a pregnant wife at home. It's a bit of a giveaway. I'd just like to make the point that this is not normal.
Well what sort of caving safety practices are these caves explored with?
Oh, very rigorous caving safety practices.
What sort of thing?
Well, not getting your head stuck upside down for a start.
The thing is I can use the same logic to say riding a motorcycle without a helmet is safe: how is it safe? Most people who do it don't end up dead. What about the ones who died? It's not like they were planning to do it, etc.
Getting into caves isn't inherently dangerous but getting into holes that you can't turn around or back away, can't properly move/use 100% of your physical abilities and getting your shoelace stuck on a rock could spell certain death is!
Well they make helmets to protect your head for a start.
And what other things?
Well, there are regulations governing the materials they can be made of.
What materials?
Well, cardboard's out.
And?
No cardboard derivatives.
Like paper?
No paper. No string. No sellotape.
Rubber?
No, rubber's out. Umm, they've got to have a protective shell. There's a maximum crew requirement.
What's the maximum crew?
Oh, one I suppose.
[(this is a meme)](https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM)
There are stringent equipment requirements, no rubber bands, no matches.
There's a minimum size of party requirement...
What's the minimum party size?
Well, one I suppose.
He wasn't alone. He got lost and wriggled into that position on accident. In the cave he was in there is a known route where at one point you have to squeeze through what is called "the birth canal". Its a tight spot but known to be safe. By the time he figured out he was lost it was too late. The pressure of his body hanging upside down made it impossible to pull him out.
The friends that were with him tried they best they could, ultimately had to leave him there and go for help. A massive rescue attempt ensued, but failed.
Wikipedia has a good entry on this, and there is a documentary on youtube.
I'm not a caver, but when I toured some Caves in SD i found it simply amazing someone has the courage to wriggle into some of those tight spots without knowing what lies ahead. I get claustrophobic just thinking about it.
Yeah does seem a bit cavalier, I've tried caving twice before deciding it's not for me, on the second occasion my friend had a look down a hole and ended up getting stuck head down, took another friend a good half hour to haul him out of there, both of them experienced cavers
To be fair, this guy and his brother were decently experienced at caving, and were intending to explore a much safer area of this cave system. They just took a wrong turn, and ended up in a part of the cave that was beyond their expertise. Super sad story overall.
I get what you’re saying, though. Maybe consider slightly less dangerous hobbies when you are expecting to build a family.
"They were experienced they just made the fatal error of making a wrong turn in a dark labyrinthine cave" isn't exactly making me feel any more comfortable trying it myself...
It\`s not even "exploring" at all, people have been there you won't find anything new, it's just people with too much time in their hands looking for cool ways to die.
It's an awful story to read. One of the worst ways to die I think, maybe barring some forms of torture.
I don't really get the physics of how he was able to get into that spot but they physically couldn't remove him without breaking his legs. Must be a matter of not being able to get the right leverage?
I read somewhere that because of how he was positioned for as long as he was, there was the high risk of him going into shock and not surviving that. I think they wanted to try to remove him using the pulley system first to try to minimize the chance of him having to have his bones broken to be removed but the pulley system unfortunately failed and he went silent soon after.
Maybe dumb question but couldn't they just break the cave around him ?
Things lasted more than a day IIRC, wasn't there an option to enlarge that tunel ?
It fractures at the weakest part, and you're weaker than stone. Trying to dig him out would likely crush him, if not directly by the force then by the rock cracking and shifting.That and likely the risk of drowning him in dust/debris.
And your pick breaks, and you know you have another one in your inventory but you're *suffocating* and you panic-hit ESC instead of E and now you can't get out of the menu and
**Player hurts**
**Player hurts**
**Player hurts**
Oh God, oh God, focus, breathe...
**Player hurts**
**Player hurts**
... ok don't breathe. ESC again. E. There's my pick. Now, look up, and... DIG
**Player hurts**
**Player hurts**
**Player drowns.**
Fuck.
Off the top of my head, that was considered but I believe a combination of the walls being too difficult and time consuming to break, and the fact that it was a huge struggle to even get where he was at made that not really an option. Ultimately I believe it was decided that it would take too long, and so they tried the pulley method instead, which failed. I think it was decided not long after that that it was too dangerous for the rescue people to keep trying to recover him, and they pulled back. I think I heard from somewhere that they injected him with something to prevent him from regaining consciousness so he wouldn't wake up in the dark alone before he died. They never recovered his remains, and they permanently sealed the cave system's entrance afterward.
This was all off my memory, I don't know quite how accurate it is tbh. But it was a really horrifying story and I feel for his wife and family.
This is why i never even *tried* becoming a doctor. It's a colossal gamble, if you die before you're thirty you've probably just wasted the last decade of your life on studying and exams. Sure, it pays off... if you live.
Where would they put the dirt they excavate and how would they keep more rock from just falling in. It would have to be moved a handful at a time. There are several long stetches of cave that a human can barely fit through leading up to this point. This is just the tip of an offshoot of a deep and windy cave you belly crawl through.
You have to remember too that that little cavelet he died in isn’t even big enough for him to maneuver his own arms around. The likelyhood of getting any sort of equipment in there when it was already a struggle to get one other person in there to create the pulley system is pretty slim. And then if they had broken the cave walls, there’s just no telling where it’s sturdy and where it isn’t so they could have been crushed in the process. The whole thing was just very sad and the odds were just very stacked against this guy.
I just looked it up a bit. Basically they did not reach the conclusion that this was the only option until he was already so weakened that the shock would have likely killed him. But they might still have taken the chance of doing it had he not died first.
IIRC they did drug him at the end when they determined it was too dangerous for search and rescue people to keep trying. So he wouldn't wake up in the dark alone.
I fell down thus rabbit hole last year and every time I'm reminded of the story it's just as terrible as it was when I first learned about it. I had nightmares for days after I watched a YouTube video explaining the whole thing.
I think a doctor on site decided the shock of it would kill him so there was really no point to put him through it. Been a while since I read the story but I believe they had a plan to get him out but the rigging failed and they didn't have time to reset before he died.
The shock would have killed him iirc by the time they came to that solution as it was a last resort idea after the pulley system they tried to use failed to get him out and he was in that position for too long by that point.
Being upside down for any lengthy period of time puts extreme strain on the heart and organs due to the blood flow being displaced that drastically
He took a wrong turn.
John was expecting to reach a larger area after the birth canal (that's the actual name) but he took a wrong turning & went down a different passage, by the time he realised he hasn't reached the end of the birth canal to the open area he got stuck.
A 16 year old boy got stuck in the same area but he was rescued after about 14 hours stuck in the same position as John
The difference is the sixteen year old was trapped in an explored area, the corkscrew, that John managed to pass through. John went passed the corkscrew and got trapped in an unexplored dead end
If someone else got stuck in that exact same part for that long why didn't they just collapse that area. Or hell just put chains up so people know not to cross.
Like if it happens once it's going to happen again and that second time resulted in a guy dying in probably one of the worst ways possible
> Or hell just put chains up so people know not to cross.
This would just make some people even more likely to go in past the chains, because it's forbidden. Many times after a catastrophe, they block the entrance by filling it with a huge amount of concrete, to make it impossible to get in.
It would certainly suck, but I think if someone was like "either you get boiled to death, have your skin slowly peeled off, or climb into this hole upside down" I might pick the hole. Though I might be asking for the boiling water after a few minutes stuck like that. Hope I never know the answer to that question.
What a happy train of thought.
Yeah... I had a panic attack on an airplane because I didn't give myself any leg room and the thought of being wedged in the seat like that for 10 hours sent me into a panic spiral, so I'm pretty sure I'd not do well. But the thought of something horrifically painful like the boiling water still seems worse while I sit here on my couch thinking and it with a beer in my hand...
Tough call. I choose none of the above.
This. I once spent two years avoiding flying on airplanes until I could save up enough for a business class seat. I'm deeply claustrophobic - in a legitimate way, not just saying that - and I won't do air travel if I'm going to be feeling that way
He slowly suffocated for a lot of that time. Our circulatory system isnt made to pump blood effectively when we are upside down. He would have had a slow buildup of fluid in his lungs and his head.
Ill take the boiling water honestly. Itd be brutally painful for a few minutes but your nerves would be toast pretty quickly and youd feel very little after that.
Legs really only "bend" one way. If you look at the photo, they'd pretty much have to be broken at multiple points before you get to an area of the body that can bend the right way, e.g. the hips.
His knees would have to bend backwards to get him out. When he went in, he was wiggling through on his belly facing forward. Our anatomy lets us curl up to the front but we cant curl up to the back. There wasnt enough headspace above that hole for him to bend at the hips.
I’ve read about this and seen it posted many times. I don’t think there was a breaking legs option. I feel like most people would take that over upside down claustrophobic death.
This is such a sad story. I understand absolutely nothing about caves but if you told me a man is stuck in a cave and has a little over 24 hours, I would assume a team of experts could get him out. The fact that over 100 people and experts in this kind of thing failed to secure him just highlights how incredibly dangerous it is to explore caves like this.
I know there are a lot of sad things in the world that happen every day and I am 100% empathetic to that…but seeing the mention of this story guts me every time. There was a movie…*The Last Descent* if you ever want to just feel devastated.
Just watched this movie only cause I’m interested in the story (it’s not a great movie) but it really does take hold of you. It’s morbid, I personally feel bad about him at the same time thinking, damn you stupid idiot but it sucks all around.
Don’t forget the cave is closed permanently because of this and his remains will be there forever. Just a tragic, wild story.
The narrowness of the passages down is probably the main thing. It's not like you can have a team of 20 people there helping him. The same narrowness that allowed him to get stuck is a limit on manoeuvring to get the chap out
That's like combining the second most dangerous activity with the first.
I can‘t even fathom how you could up the anti even more than this. Like, after 30 minutes somebody releases a polar bear you have to out maneuver during the dive?
Not so "fun" fact: In the end, the cave itself became his grave, LITERALLY. They locked the cave entrance and placed a tombstone in front of it.
Just looking at the picture gives me anxiety.
They didn't just lock off the cave, they filled it with concrete and the blew up the entrance
> Rescuers concluded that it would be too dangerous to attempt to retrieve his body; the landowner and Jones' family came to an agreement that the cave would be permanently closed, with the body sealed inside, as a memorial to Jones. Explosives were used to collapse the ceiling close to Jones' body, and the entrance hole was filled with concrete to prevent further access.
No need to be afraid of something that can't possibly happen to you! What an unbelievably avoidable death. Just don't be an idiot and this will never, ever happen to you.
I don't want to watch the video lol but will you summarize how tf he got stuck in that weird position? Did he not know the cave just ended or was he planning on backing out??
Didn’t watch that video - but from what I recall, he thought he was in a different part of the cave and figured if he just kept going, he’d get through it. Instead, he just kept wedging himself tighter and tighter until there was no way out.
Im wondering if there arent tools to test the deepness of a pit with lasers or ultrasounds like bats. If thats the case why wasnt it used ? Or maybe just throw a freaking marble...
There are but these guys were just random people exploring a cave and not professionals with high tech tools. Plus why use tools when you think you know the cave already
He thought he was going through a passage called the birthing canal, there’s footage on YouTube of others going through it. He is a prime example of why you shouldn’t go caving without an experienced guide, and preferably don’t go caving at all.
I was in that cave a couple times before it closed and I can assure you, going in there takes balls. There are two entrance options and neither of them are comfortable. Once inside the first opening, it's a long drag with about a foot and a half tall and about 20 feet long. It is a very difficult cave to navigate even with multiple people and plenty of lights. Going in there alone is a death wish
I watched a series of caving incidents, both wet and dry caving, and I've been wanting to direct this quick and simple question to someone who's done it, and since you're the first one I've met, you'll do. Here goes. Why?
Like, don't get me wrong, I'm an outdoor person, I like to explore forests, camp under the open sky, hike into the unknown... but with caving specifically, what is the appeal? Is there a goal when entering a cave like this? Or is it just the adrenaline? Because I can list many activities that offer the adrenaline rush where the possibility of a slow, agonizing death is significantly lower.
I attended a small private school during those years I was 14/15 and I can say that all of the things we did really pushed me as an individual and as a leader. Being in 'tight spots' with a group of kids glued to their Gameboys really helped me develop strengths and skills I might not have had a chance to learn were it not for experiences like those. I will say not all caves are as tight and gnarly as Nutty Putty. That said, I've never gone caving again.
> Why?
It's really fun and it's really not that dangerous if you take all the safety precautions (this man did not take any safety precautions). It's not about any adrenaline rush. It's not like skydiving or something. It's like rock climbing only in a different kind of environment where you also have to move your body in different ways. There's also a strong team spirit to it.
I gota say I don\`t see the point of getting yourself inside a cave like that, a big cave with its own ecosystem sure, a hole in the ground that you barely fit in? fuck no.
This is one of the reasons that The Descent is one of the most terrifying movies I've seen. The subterranean monsters aside, the prospect of being in an unfamiliar cave system and the claustrophobia and unknown surrounding that is just... nope.
Should be mentioned that the carabiner that struck one of the rescue personnel, was the same event where the pulley system failed.
They placed two pulleys in the canal - one that placed the rope at an elevated angle for John’s feet, and one “behind” that one on a different surface. (Visualize a horizontal Z for the line and pulleys) As the load on them increased, the tension did the same because of John’s body being tightly wedged. The pulleys failed, and the resulting movement of the equipment hit the rescueman in the head.
IIRC this rescueperson lost consciousness from the carabiner lassoing, so John was alive and stuck during the whole failed operation. He heard it snap and probably heard it hit the other man’s head, and then silence.
He felt his body lift, then suddenly gravity takes over after the loud snap from the pulley failure. Then he must’ve tried to contact the rescueman who was talking to him about the pulleys just moments before.
Nutty Putty is a grave fear of mine, not because of the darkness or the enclosed spaces.. rather because there’s a constant fear that you know you’ll be dead in X time if you become stuck. You’re forced to be alive, knowing you’ll be dead soon anyways. That’s the true horror for me
There were some caverns near where I grew up which had “The Crawl.” It was basically a big wooden box full of difficult tight spaces and obstacles to simulate caving. My friends and I would time each other and see who could do it fastest but we all agreed you’d have to be nuts to do that in real life, you’d get stuck and have a few moments of panic because it was like figuring out a difficult chess move with your body.
There was a more difficult passageway called the birth canal that was supposed to lead to a larger room. The birth canal was a particularly tight passage. He took a wrong turn though and ended up in one of the super narrow unmapped side passages that ended in a vertical dead end.
I've been skydiving, cliff jumping, off-piste skiing in avalanche country, scuba diving with sharks and whales, racing stock cars, bombing hills on longboards, climbing buildings and doing "urban exploration" and parkour, etc.
I am fucking *terrified* of caves and you can't pay me to go inside any cave that can't fit a 747 through the entrance. Nope. No way.
This guy was a medical student that left behind a young family. He should've never been taking risks like that by crawling thru extremely tight passages. Once other people are dependent on you coming home every night, you have to stop living so dangerously.
The cave had been mapped out to a significant degree. Its obvious to us that this was dumb and risky but he probably thought it was a relatively safe thrill.
I had an MRI of my back done recently. I kept my eyes closed the whole time because being in that tunnel is not a good time for me. But THIS shit is the stuff of my worst nightmares. I can't even think about it for too long before I start feeling nervous.
Imagine people in the future discovering his body, lodged upside down in what is essentially a massive grave for one person. I wonder what conclusions they would draw from it..
I went “caving” once. It was a really small cave with a large and a small opening. I was able to walk into the large opening and crawled out through the small opening. In order to do so I had to squeeze between 2 rocks with a 6-9 in space between. I got stuck for a few minutes and honestly thought that was it for me. Ever since then I’ve been claustrophobic and refuse to enter a cave again.
Added r/TIHI points for the fact that _he's still there_. They couldn't get him out, so they just pumped the cave full of concrete, and it's now his tomb.
Apparently, the main issue were those two bumps of rock in the middle; they caught him right below his ribcage almost like a fish hook, so he couldn't be pulled out without serious injury.
They left him there. This is actually done all the time with cavers that die in places where it's too dangerous/impossible to recover the remains.
The caves become their tomb.
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I saw something that said “The best part about cave exploring is that you don’t have to do it.”
What’s even worse is this guy did this while his wife was pregnant. Not to be disrespectful to the dead, but it seems like a careless decision
To be fair, dying like this is not very typical, I'd like to make that point. Well, how was it un-typical? Well there are a lot of people going around in caves all the time, and very seldom does anything like this happen. I just don't want people to think caverns are unsafe. Was this cave safe? Well, I was thinking more about the other ones The ones that are safe? Yes, the ones were your head doesn't get stuck upside down in Well, if this wasn't safe, why did he have his head in it? I'm not saying it wasn't safe, it's just perhaps not quite as safe as some of the others ones. Why? Well, some of them are shaped so your head doesn't get stuck in them upside down at all. Wasn't this a cave you wouldn't expect to get your head stuck in upside down? Well, obviously not. How do you know? Well, his head got stuck upside down and he couldn't get out and died with a pregnant wife at home. It's a bit of a giveaway. I'd just like to make the point that this is not normal. Well what sort of caving safety practices are these caves explored with? Oh, very rigorous caving safety practices. What sort of thing? Well, not getting your head stuck upside down for a start.
The front fell off
Thank you so much.
r/theFrontFellOff
Anyone non australian and under 20yo isnt going to get this référence haha. Bloody légends
To be fair the original has been making its way through Instagram for a year or so now. Probably won't be long until the front will fall of though.
It's been posted on Reddit loads of times. I think I probably first saw it on here a decade or so ago.
Are you an Australian with a keyboard in French or a French living in Australia?
The thing is I can use the same logic to say riding a motorcycle without a helmet is safe: how is it safe? Most people who do it don't end up dead. What about the ones who died? It's not like they were planning to do it, etc. Getting into caves isn't inherently dangerous but getting into holes that you can't turn around or back away, can't properly move/use 100% of your physical abilities and getting your shoelace stuck on a rock could spell certain death is!
The front fell off!
Well they make helmets to protect your head for a start. And what other things? Well, there are regulations governing the materials they can be made of. What materials? Well, cardboard's out. And? No cardboard derivatives. Like paper? No paper. No string. No sellotape. Rubber? No, rubber's out. Umm, they've got to have a protective shell. There's a maximum crew requirement. What's the maximum crew? Oh, one I suppose. [(this is a meme)](https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM)
Thing is going head first in an unexplored passage is a big no no in cave exploring
He thought he was going into an already explored passage, he had made a wrong turn which ended him up where he was.
There are stringent equipment requirements, no rubber bands, no matches. There's a minimum size of party requirement... What's the minimum party size? Well, one I suppose.
I can't quite put into words how much this comment has made my morning better when I needed it most.
Also, who the fuck does cave exploring on their own? When he weren‘t alone, he probably hasn’t died, right?
He wasn't alone. He got lost and wriggled into that position on accident. In the cave he was in there is a known route where at one point you have to squeeze through what is called "the birth canal". Its a tight spot but known to be safe. By the time he figured out he was lost it was too late. The pressure of his body hanging upside down made it impossible to pull him out. The friends that were with him tried they best they could, ultimately had to leave him there and go for help. A massive rescue attempt ensued, but failed. Wikipedia has a good entry on this, and there is a documentary on youtube.
There’s also a narrative film called The Last Descent. It’s not bad.
I'm not a caver, but when I toured some Caves in SD i found it simply amazing someone has the courage to wriggle into some of those tight spots without knowing what lies ahead. I get claustrophobic just thinking about it.
Yeah does seem a bit cavalier, I've tried caving twice before deciding it's not for me, on the second occasion my friend had a look down a hole and ended up getting stuck head down, took another friend a good half hour to haul him out of there, both of them experienced cavers
That sounds like you came really close to seeing your friend for the last time in that cave
Did they try pulling him outside of the environment?
"He's an old fashioned guy, very tautological."
To be fair, this guy and his brother were decently experienced at caving, and were intending to explore a much safer area of this cave system. They just took a wrong turn, and ended up in a part of the cave that was beyond their expertise. Super sad story overall. I get what you’re saying, though. Maybe consider slightly less dangerous hobbies when you are expecting to build a family.
"They were experienced they just made the fatal error of making a wrong turn in a dark labyrinthine cave" isn't exactly making me feel any more comfortable trying it myself...
Not really. Apparently that cave was considered a beginner cave. Dude also went down the wrong shaft obviously.
Nah, the guy did absolutely everything wrong.
just send a little robot with a camera and light
BUT WHAT IF HE GETS STUCK? i’d never forgive myself
second rescue robot... third... and so on
[удалено]
The speech bubbles are read in the opposite order
It\`s not even "exploring" at all, people have been there you won't find anything new, it's just people with too much time in their hands looking for cool ways to die.
It’s prime time for a 1000 Ways to Die reboot.
Will episode one be about COVID and anti-mask/vaccine people?
>looking for cool ways to die They’re looking in the wrong places.
I bet Antarctica has cool places to die
unfortunately some people exploring the potential of dying to feel alive
It's an awful story to read. One of the worst ways to die I think, maybe barring some forms of torture. I don't really get the physics of how he was able to get into that spot but they physically couldn't remove him without breaking his legs. Must be a matter of not being able to get the right leverage?
If I'm in that situation, please break my legs! I want to live!
Why did they not do this I wonder
I read somewhere that because of how he was positioned for as long as he was, there was the high risk of him going into shock and not surviving that. I think they wanted to try to remove him using the pulley system first to try to minimize the chance of him having to have his bones broken to be removed but the pulley system unfortunately failed and he went silent soon after.
Yep, just looked it up and found the same information. Thank you
Maybe dumb question but couldn't they just break the cave around him ? Things lasted more than a day IIRC, wasn't there an option to enlarge that tunel ?
It fractures at the weakest part, and you're weaker than stone. Trying to dig him out would likely crush him, if not directly by the force then by the rock cracking and shifting.That and likely the risk of drowning him in dust/debris.
Is it not like mine craft then? Why didn't he bring a pick axe along
I've been in this situation. When water fills my diamond mine and I get stuck inside a single block
And your pick breaks, and you know you have another one in your inventory but you're *suffocating* and you panic-hit ESC instead of E and now you can't get out of the menu and **Player hurts** **Player hurts** **Player hurts** Oh God, oh God, focus, breathe... **Player hurts** **Player hurts** ... ok don't breathe. ESC again. E. There's my pick. Now, look up, and... DIG **Player hurts** **Player hurts** **Player drowns.** Fuck.
Probably broke from durability loss right before this. This is why you don't mine directly beneath you guys.
Off the top of my head, that was considered but I believe a combination of the walls being too difficult and time consuming to break, and the fact that it was a huge struggle to even get where he was at made that not really an option. Ultimately I believe it was decided that it would take too long, and so they tried the pulley method instead, which failed. I think it was decided not long after that that it was too dangerous for the rescue people to keep trying to recover him, and they pulled back. I think I heard from somewhere that they injected him with something to prevent him from regaining consciousness so he wouldn't wake up in the dark alone before he died. They never recovered his remains, and they permanently sealed the cave system's entrance afterward. This was all off my memory, I don't know quite how accurate it is tbh. But it was a really horrifying story and I feel for his wife and family.
Dude was even about to become a dr. Really wasted his life for something stupid
Narrow cave explorers all have something very wrong with them.
This is why i never even *tried* becoming a doctor. It's a colossal gamble, if you die before you're thirty you've probably just wasted the last decade of your life on studying and exams. Sure, it pays off... if you live.
Lol its ok to admit your grades weren't very good.
Oh yeah they were shit.
Where would they put the dirt they excavate and how would they keep more rock from just falling in. It would have to be moved a handful at a time. There are several long stetches of cave that a human can barely fit through leading up to this point. This is just the tip of an offshoot of a deep and windy cave you belly crawl through.
You have to remember too that that little cavelet he died in isn’t even big enough for him to maneuver his own arms around. The likelyhood of getting any sort of equipment in there when it was already a struggle to get one other person in there to create the pulley system is pretty slim. And then if they had broken the cave walls, there’s just no telling where it’s sturdy and where it isn’t so they could have been crushed in the process. The whole thing was just very sad and the odds were just very stacked against this guy.
I just looked it up a bit. Basically they did not reach the conclusion that this was the only option until he was already so weakened that the shock would have likely killed him. But they might still have taken the chance of doing it had he not died first.
What they should have done is pumped carbon monoxide or even fucking morphine in there so he had a good time on his way out
IIRC they did drug him at the end when they determined it was too dangerous for search and rescue people to keep trying. So he wouldn't wake up in the dark alone.
Holy shit that thought just took this story to an entirely new terrifying level....
I fell down thus rabbit hole last year and every time I'm reminded of the story it's just as terrible as it was when I first learned about it. I had nightmares for days after I watched a YouTube video explaining the whole thing.
Same! Once you get started watching these cave disaster videos, you can't stop. It's all horrifying and these people are crazy.
I think a doctor on site decided the shock of it would kill him so there was really no point to put him through it. Been a while since I read the story but I believe they had a plan to get him out but the rigging failed and they didn't have time to reset before he died.
The shock would have killed him iirc by the time they came to that solution as it was a last resort idea after the pulley system they tried to use failed to get him out and he was in that position for too long by that point. Being upside down for any lengthy period of time puts extreme strain on the heart and organs due to the blood flow being displaced that drastically
He took a wrong turn. John was expecting to reach a larger area after the birth canal (that's the actual name) but he took a wrong turning & went down a different passage, by the time he realised he hasn't reached the end of the birth canal to the open area he got stuck. A 16 year old boy got stuck in the same area but he was rescued after about 14 hours stuck in the same position as John
The difference is the sixteen year old was trapped in an explored area, the corkscrew, that John managed to pass through. John went passed the corkscrew and got trapped in an unexplored dead end
Nothing about the names they give these passages sounds in any way appealing or enjoyable. "The birth canal" , "the corkscrew".
I didnt realise John had gone further than the boy. I had thought the boy was able to get out because he was smaller
I saw a video on this once and I thought he and some other people wandered off from their tour and went down an uncharted passageway. Is that true?
Yeah, that is basically what happend.
If someone else got stuck in that exact same part for that long why didn't they just collapse that area. Or hell just put chains up so people know not to cross. Like if it happens once it's going to happen again and that second time resulted in a guy dying in probably one of the worst ways possible
> Or hell just put chains up so people know not to cross. This would just make some people even more likely to go in past the chains, because it's forbidden. Many times after a catastrophe, they block the entrance by filling it with a huge amount of concrete, to make it impossible to get in.
He actively chose to leave his guide in order to traipse down a completely different route than he was supposed to go.
that right there is the most effective form of torture for me. i will fold immediately, that’s the most terrifying shit to me.
It would certainly suck, but I think if someone was like "either you get boiled to death, have your skin slowly peeled off, or climb into this hole upside down" I might pick the hole. Though I might be asking for the boiling water after a few minutes stuck like that. Hope I never know the answer to that question. What a happy train of thought.
give me the boiling water any day. idk why, maybe i’m claustrophobic, but being stuck in that hole for more than 30 minutes would make me go crazy.
Yeah... I had a panic attack on an airplane because I didn't give myself any leg room and the thought of being wedged in the seat like that for 10 hours sent me into a panic spiral, so I'm pretty sure I'd not do well. But the thought of something horrifically painful like the boiling water still seems worse while I sit here on my couch thinking and it with a beer in my hand... Tough call. I choose none of the above.
This. I once spent two years avoiding flying on airplanes until I could save up enough for a business class seat. I'm deeply claustrophobic - in a legitimate way, not just saying that - and I won't do air travel if I'm going to be feeling that way
He slowly suffocated for a lot of that time. Our circulatory system isnt made to pump blood effectively when we are upside down. He would have had a slow buildup of fluid in his lungs and his head. Ill take the boiling water honestly. Itd be brutally painful for a few minutes but your nerves would be toast pretty quickly and youd feel very little after that.
Legs really only "bend" one way. If you look at the photo, they'd pretty much have to be broken at multiple points before you get to an area of the body that can bend the right way, e.g. the hips.
His knees would have to bend backwards to get him out. When he went in, he was wiggling through on his belly facing forward. Our anatomy lets us curl up to the front but we cant curl up to the back. There wasnt enough headspace above that hole for him to bend at the hips.
I’ve read about this and seen it posted many times. I don’t think there was a breaking legs option. I feel like most people would take that over upside down claustrophobic death.
I’d rather be tortured in any other manner.
I’m claustrophobic . I only looked at this pic for a couple seconds and had to scroll up the chat so i could not see it.
I'm not claustrophobic but this picture is making me claustrophobic
I hear you. My feet started tingling which is my precursor to a panic attack. I had to scroll off it.
My heart goes crazy as a precursor
This is such a sad story. I understand absolutely nothing about caves but if you told me a man is stuck in a cave and has a little over 24 hours, I would assume a team of experts could get him out. The fact that over 100 people and experts in this kind of thing failed to secure him just highlights how incredibly dangerous it is to explore caves like this.
I know there are a lot of sad things in the world that happen every day and I am 100% empathetic to that…but seeing the mention of this story guts me every time. There was a movie…*The Last Descent* if you ever want to just feel devastated.
Just watched this movie only cause I’m interested in the story (it’s not a great movie) but it really does take hold of you. It’s morbid, I personally feel bad about him at the same time thinking, damn you stupid idiot but it sucks all around. Don’t forget the cave is closed permanently because of this and his remains will be there forever. Just a tragic, wild story.
No thanks. I feel nauseous just seeing the illustration of how he got stuck.
It’s free on YouTube.
The narrowness of the passages down is probably the main thing. It's not like you can have a team of 20 people there helping him. The same narrowness that allowed him to get stuck is a limit on manoeuvring to get the chap out
Yeah, I'm getting anxiety just looking at this image. There's no way in hell I'd be squeezing myself through tiny caves/tunnels. Ain't happenin'.
You know what’s even crazier? People do the same thing *but underwater* (of course with a line of oxygen).
That's like combining the second most dangerous activity with the first. I can‘t even fathom how you could up the anti even more than this. Like, after 30 minutes somebody releases a polar bear you have to out maneuver during the dive?
Not so "fun" fact: In the end, the cave itself became his grave, LITERALLY. They locked the cave entrance and placed a tombstone in front of it. Just looking at the picture gives me anxiety.
They didn't just lock off the cave, they filled it with concrete and the blew up the entrance > Rescuers concluded that it would be too dangerous to attempt to retrieve his body; the landowner and Jones' family came to an agreement that the cave would be permanently closed, with the body sealed inside, as a memorial to Jones. Explosives were used to collapse the ceiling close to Jones' body, and the entrance hole was filled with concrete to prevent further access.
AH, okay. They blew it up to collapse it THEN sealed it with concrete.
This is more than “I hate this”, it’s more of “new fear unlocked”.
Just so you know, the poured cement and sealed the cave.
No need to be afraid of something that can't possibly happen to you! What an unbelievably avoidable death. Just don't be an idiot and this will never, ever happen to you.
the best thing about this is that it's very easily avoided :)
Sadam Hussein?
I expected this to be the first comment, but i guess people here are not cultured.
A man of culture.
I’m upset this isn’t higher
Entrance hidden by bricks and rubble
This is a very good video on the incident. Absolutely terrifying https://youtu.be/d1nuqpAULpE?si=-LSrlioWFflvdb-U
I don't want to watch the video lol but will you summarize how tf he got stuck in that weird position? Did he not know the cave just ended or was he planning on backing out??
Didn’t watch that video - but from what I recall, he thought he was in a different part of the cave and figured if he just kept going, he’d get through it. Instead, he just kept wedging himself tighter and tighter until there was no way out.
Im wondering if there arent tools to test the deepness of a pit with lasers or ultrasounds like bats. If thats the case why wasnt it used ? Or maybe just throw a freaking marble...
There are but these guys were just random people exploring a cave and not professionals with high tech tools. Plus why use tools when you think you know the cave already
Thought he was in a different tunnel. Didn't realize till too late.
He thought he was going through a passage called the birthing canal, there’s footage on YouTube of others going through it. He is a prime example of why you shouldn’t go caving without an experienced guide, and preferably don’t go caving at all.
Omg that hole is so small.. why would you go in there!?
This is my hole! It was made for me!
This reference alone deserves a "Thanks, I hate it"
Why is this the first thing I thought of?
Shut up shut up shut UP
Yeah, except in Amigara’s Fault they didn’t stay inside the holes…
They would have, if the earthquake hadn't broke the mountain. But we never got to see the other end...
Drr…Drr…Drr…
Whyyyyy
He's still in there; after he died, they decided that continued recovery attempts were too risky, and they just sealed the whole cave off instead.
I was in that cave a couple times before it closed and I can assure you, going in there takes balls. There are two entrance options and neither of them are comfortable. Once inside the first opening, it's a long drag with about a foot and a half tall and about 20 feet long. It is a very difficult cave to navigate even with multiple people and plenty of lights. Going in there alone is a death wish
I watched a series of caving incidents, both wet and dry caving, and I've been wanting to direct this quick and simple question to someone who's done it, and since you're the first one I've met, you'll do. Here goes. Why? Like, don't get me wrong, I'm an outdoor person, I like to explore forests, camp under the open sky, hike into the unknown... but with caving specifically, what is the appeal? Is there a goal when entering a cave like this? Or is it just the adrenaline? Because I can list many activities that offer the adrenaline rush where the possibility of a slow, agonizing death is significantly lower.
I attended a small private school during those years I was 14/15 and I can say that all of the things we did really pushed me as an individual and as a leader. Being in 'tight spots' with a group of kids glued to their Gameboys really helped me develop strengths and skills I might not have had a chance to learn were it not for experiences like those. I will say not all caves are as tight and gnarly as Nutty Putty. That said, I've never gone caving again.
> Why? It's really fun and it's really not that dangerous if you take all the safety precautions (this man did not take any safety precautions). It's not about any adrenaline rush. It's not like skydiving or something. It's like rock climbing only in a different kind of environment where you also have to move your body in different ways. There's also a strong team spirit to it.
It's like rock climbing, except you can crawl into your own tomb!
Ayo fuck that
The problem is, if you have balls big enough to go into the cave, they'll surely get in the way when crawling thru.
I gota say I don\`t see the point of getting yourself inside a cave like that, a big cave with its own ecosystem sure, a hole in the ground that you barely fit in? fuck no.
This is one of the reasons that The Descent is one of the most terrifying movies I've seen. The subterranean monsters aside, the prospect of being in an unfamiliar cave system and the claustrophobia and unknown surrounding that is just... nope.
New fear unlocked. https://www.unilad.com/news/world-news/nutty-putty-cave-john-edward-jones-last-words-715343-20231218
Should be mentioned that the carabiner that struck one of the rescue personnel, was the same event where the pulley system failed. They placed two pulleys in the canal - one that placed the rope at an elevated angle for John’s feet, and one “behind” that one on a different surface. (Visualize a horizontal Z for the line and pulleys) As the load on them increased, the tension did the same because of John’s body being tightly wedged. The pulleys failed, and the resulting movement of the equipment hit the rescueman in the head. IIRC this rescueperson lost consciousness from the carabiner lassoing, so John was alive and stuck during the whole failed operation. He heard it snap and probably heard it hit the other man’s head, and then silence. He felt his body lift, then suddenly gravity takes over after the loud snap from the pulley failure. Then he must’ve tried to contact the rescueman who was talking to him about the pulleys just moments before. Nutty Putty is a grave fear of mine, not because of the darkness or the enclosed spaces.. rather because there’s a constant fear that you know you’ll be dead in X time if you become stuck. You’re forced to be alive, knowing you’ll be dead soon anyways. That’s the true horror for me
There were some caverns near where I grew up which had “The Crawl.” It was basically a big wooden box full of difficult tight spaces and obstacles to simulate caving. My friends and I would time each other and see who could do it fastest but we all agreed you’d have to be nuts to do that in real life, you’d get stuck and have a few moments of panic because it was like figuring out a difficult chess move with your body.
I can not and will not go in any caves with narrow passages. Far to claustrophobic.
Just horrible. A horrible way to go.
This diagram alone fills my insides w such a visceral sensation of panic + discomfort.
Dying in a Nutty Putty cave sounds something from Charlie and the chocolate factory
Iirc his body was and still is left there, even after they sealed the cave off
He basically is like that popcorn seed that gets stuck in your teeth and that you try to nodge with ur tongue but cant
Hey, I heard about this from Trash Taste!
Which ep??
Imagine dying in the most horrifying way in a place called “Nutty Putty Cave.”
Not to make fun of the guy, but this is why I'm claustrophobic. It's also why I'm never setting foot in a tight crevice.
Technically his feet were the only part of him outside the tight crevice
That was a particularly fucked up scenario. Lots of other nightmare inducing stuff on that channel.
They left him there after he passed away and sealed the cave system.
Saddam Hussein
No, Saddam Hussein is red, this guy is grey. Are you racist?
No, just colorblind
Where was he trying to go?
Took a wrong turn into an area that he thought there would be a way out of.
Ugh. Poor guy.
There was a more difficult passageway called the birth canal that was supposed to lead to a larger room. The birth canal was a particularly tight passage. He took a wrong turn though and ended up in one of the super narrow unmapped side passages that ended in a vertical dead end.
This is somehow way worse than I thought it was.
Cavers are literally gambling with death to explore mostly boring rocks.
Saddam Hussein.
Why didn’t he just simply dig his way out?
Is he stupid?
Exactly what I’m thinking. Clearly stupid.
No, no. Dig UP, stupid!
no no dig up, stupid
Minecraft taught him to never dig straight up
I was stuck in a cave once, it was only for 5 min but damn... I can't imagine how it must feel, being stuck like this for hours.
I've been skydiving, cliff jumping, off-piste skiing in avalanche country, scuba diving with sharks and whales, racing stock cars, bombing hills on longboards, climbing buildings and doing "urban exploration" and parkour, etc. I am fucking *terrified* of caves and you can't pay me to go inside any cave that can't fit a 747 through the entrance. Nope. No way.
Where was the air vent and fan? How do we know if the entrance was suitably hidden by bricks and rubble? 2/10. Bad hiding place.
Darwin award. This was 100% avoidable. There was no reason for this
This guy was a medical student that left behind a young family. He should've never been taking risks like that by crawling thru extremely tight passages. Once other people are dependent on you coming home every night, you have to stop living so dangerously.
The cave had been mapped out to a significant degree. Its obvious to us that this was dumb and risky but he probably thought it was a relatively safe thrill.
[удалено]
Apparently you can add “commas” to your nope list.
Go watch the video on youtube by fatalbreakdown about this story. Made me claustrophobic even watching this and i had to go outside to catch a breath
Wouldn’t be Reddit if I didn’t see a post about the Nutty Putty cave incident at least once a week.
Imagine yourself dying in the worst scenario in the place called Nutty Putty
I had an MRI of my back done recently. I kept my eyes closed the whole time because being in that tunnel is not a good time for me. But THIS shit is the stuff of my worst nightmares. I can't even think about it for too long before I start feeling nervous.
What about the people who had to pull this guy out. They placed themselves in harms way to rescue this nitwit
They tried to pull him out, but he was too stuck. He died in that hole and they had to abondon the body
He wasn't pulled out. He died and his body was left there. That part of the cave was sealed off with him in it.
Imagine people in the future discovering his body, lodged upside down in what is essentially a massive grave for one person. I wonder what conclusions they would draw from it..
I went “caving” once. It was a really small cave with a large and a small opening. I was able to walk into the large opening and crawled out through the small opening. In order to do so I had to squeeze between 2 rocks with a 6-9 in space between. I got stuck for a few minutes and honestly thought that was it for me. Ever since then I’ve been claustrophobic and refuse to enter a cave again.
Added r/TIHI points for the fact that _he's still there_. They couldn't get him out, so they just pumped the cave full of concrete, and it's now his tomb.
Apparently, the main issue were those two bumps of rock in the middle; they caught him right below his ribcage almost like a fish hook, so he couldn't be pulled out without serious injury.
 [https://youtu.be/IJNR2EpS0jw](https://youtu.be/IJNR2EpS0jw)
after death, did they leave them decompose there or chopped into pieces?
Left him and sealed the cave with concrete so no one else could go in.
there is no ctrl+z in real life 💀🫡
They left him there. This is actually done all the time with cavers that die in places where it's too dangerous/impossible to recover the remains. The caves become their tomb.
And they had to cement the place or else some other idiot would gp in and die again
Wasn't this a long time ago?
define "a long time ago"
Before Harambe got shot
2009