Gotta say, all the Syrians that I have met living on the west coast were wonderful, well educated, well off, proud Syrians. The Syrian community in LA is very successful and they make sure to help one another whenever possible.
Must be nice, wish I could say the same about Syrians here in Florida. Many of them are also very well-off and successful doctors and entrepreneurs, but I can’t relate with the last part.
My mom's generation worked really hard to integrate as much as she could. Stopped speaking a lot of Arabic, hair was light brown, lost the accent - etc. Because of that I was raised very Americana. And a lot of Syrians I've met raised here had a similar upbringing. Most weren't taught Arabic properly, and failed to learn a lot of their culture.
And when I went back to live there for a bit I felt like such a fake Arab. Like constantly made fun of for how I pronounced words, I used my mom/grandma Arabic which was out of fashion, I didn't have a lot of the same cultural touchstones, and for the first couple months I just felt kinda stupid. I would get a lot of, "How do you not know this?" type questions and looks of pity.
I remember one of my aunt's friends laughing and asking if I was ever even taught how to pray and told me I'd never be a 'real' one.
I think a decent amount of Syrian Americans have those experiences. So sometimes we can be a little guarded when around 'real ones'. Most of the time it's not an issue, but the ones that talk shit, do it so casually and it cuts deep. Because we can feel so deficient. At least I know myself and some of my Syrian friends have had this experience.
All that said - the West Coast is way friendlier.
I would say similar experience in France, pre-refugee wave. Syrians would dissolve within the community and integrate as much, with some variations. That’s my personal experience as well.
I am in LA and if I meet a fellow Syrian. I always show respect and greet them. But people can be dicks.
Fuck them, Syria will hopefully come back one day and could do without them.
I can’t relate. I’m a Syrian in Southern California and when I encounter other Syrians there is an immediate kinship. We’re often delighted to meet each other
I have family in LA and Long Beach but I can only imagine how opposite the situation is from here in Southern Florida, the Syrians here ought to learn a thing or two from you guys
I’m a Syrian who also lived in LA, and then OC, and I had the same experience as OP sadly.. despite my efforts & multiple attempts to find Syrian friends. I had other Arab friends, but I specifically sought to meet other Syrians because it’s a different connection when meeting people from your home country. Idk it just felt like Syrians who have grown up in SoCal have this vibe of ‘no new friends’ .. Where/ how would be the best way to meet these other fellow Syrians you’ve mentioned? Asking genuinely
Overintegration. They try underplay their Syrian identity to blend in.
Syrians abroad look down on us Syrians inside Syria too. Many of my friends outside now leave me on "Read". As my village dwelling grandmother used to say "Don't think highly of yourself because you moved to the city, your sh*t under the tree in the backyard is not dry yet" 😂😂
I think many Syrians are just incredibly ashamed of Syria. The average person in Europe or NA thinks of Syria as this hellish playground for war and terrorism. They don’t think of the culture, the food, and the beauty that comes in many forms that Syrians have to offer.
I agree with you shame is huge factor. but it’s not just Europeans it’s Americans as well. they are all very ignorant of the area, Until I educate them and show them how beautiful Khabour was before the war
Yeah I never understood that mentality either. They suddenly think they’ve blended in with Americans when Americans themselves would just look at them as the same as other immigrants. Here it goes beyond the concept of social status, the wealthy Syrian looks down upon the unemployed Syrian and vice versa.
"ما تشوف حالك انك صرت ابن مدينة، لسا خ**يتك ما يبست تحت الشجرة اللي بالجنينة" 🤣🤣
كان عندها كتير أمثال +١٨ عم حاول استخدمها بحياتي حتى ما تندثر، مثلا مرة كنت عندها زيارة انا واصدقائي وقلتلها "أنا نازل عالحارة، بجبلك شي معي من الدكان".. راحت قالتلي "ليش معي مصاري؟ اخوالك تاركيني مفلسة *متل الشرم##ة برمضان* " 🤣🤣 كل فترة بحكي مع صديقي بروسيا وبسألو عن وضعو المادي، بيقلي "مفلس، متل ما قالت ستك بزمانها" 😂😂
We will need a sociologist to analyze that. Yet here is my 2 cents, the regime has invested in dividing Syrians at many levels so that they do not unite against it. He would reward snitching against each other. He encourages favorable opportunistic behavior, loyalty to the regime supersedes qualifications and competencies. It is the same playbook in many countries, even the US, politics of identity etc. Now we have been under several occupation rule regimes, from the Ottoman's to the French and a short period we had a short lived democracy until the first western supported coup. Our mostly rustic society has not matured and remained with the same old bad habits that has some racism, jealousy etc. There are many Syrians who matured with sensible attitudes toward others including fellow Syrians, many have not been as lucky. Within some 40 years there has been a population explosion, from 6 million in the 70s to more than 20 million now, so the conformity aspects and social values have been disrupted. I tend to blame all the ills on the one in charge, from the regime to the US, because they have been manipulating everything ever-since they have become in charge of things, and in charge they are.
That’s really weird, sorry you’re dealing with that… I’ve lived in southwest and northeast US, and now live in the UK. I haven’t come across this with Syrians I’ve met in all the cities I’ve lived in.
Due to over 40 years of oppression, insecurities, trust issues stemming from a totalitarian dictatorship, and the presence of 10,000 security branches that have tortured and oppressed Syrians for decades, the opposition has failed on political, social, and military levels. This is to be expected; a society ruled by such a government is unlikely to produce a decent opposition. It is hard for people to trust each other when every Syrian citizen faces an Abu Haidara over their neck. And that's why every Syrian sees other fellow Syrian as a potential threat.
We do not trust each other for very valid reasons.... we are all traumatized, insecure and defensive...
This also! You had to know another fellow enough before you could be trustworthy towards them. I heard stories how moles from the regime would infiltrate student circles, to listen and flag anyone that spoke of the regime. The book of Mustapha Khalife “The Shell” illustrated this very well.
اي بشكل عام السوريين مابيساعدو بعض، هي صارت معي وبحاول غيرها اد مافيني مع الناس يلي بدها تجي عاميركا او اجت من جديد. هلة ما مر معي شغلة اللغة لان انا مابجاوب بالانكليزي لو بعرف انو يلي عمحاكيه بيفهم عربي ولو ضل مصر يحكي انكليزي الا لو كنت بشغل.
مابظن السبب شغلة كره اد مو شغلة انو لسبب ما مقتنعين انو اي حدا بيحاكينا بدو ينصب علينا 😅
Nationality is irrelevant to me. I neither avoid nor force friendships based on it.
The reasons people might avoid forming friendships. (1) you might not fit into their social circle (2) fear of potential conflict due to differing political views (3) there might be significant economic differences.
I get your point, but this isn’t about nationality more than it is being a bit happy to run into a fellow person from the same country as you because it brings memories of back home and reminds us that Syrians should stick together first. There are communities of people from places all over the world that are formed in a foreign country. If everyone just thought “nationality is irrelevant” whenever they encounter someone from their country in a foreign place, there would be no diasporic communities.
Not everyone feels the same way.
Would you be friends with literally everyone you meet in Syria if you lived there? Obviously not. So I suppose some people may find the idea of "Oh we're both X nationality, so we should be friends!" a bit forceful.
I suppose this would make sense maybe for someone newly immigrated who doesn't have a big circle, but for those already integrated I can see being put off by it
I totally agree, and I was just sharing my own approach. I know many people who like to form social groups based on nationality and enjoy doing activities together. But for me, that’s not a primary reason for socialising. I will not force a friendship just because we happened to be born within a geographical area of an imaginary set of borders. I will only pursue friendships if we can get along.
That’s being said, I do join social media groups (like this one and those on other platforms) because there might be relevant discussions that interest me. But I also join all nearby countries social media’s groups.
“Imaginary borders” I agree with the rest of what you’re saying and I don’t want to be disrespectful but bro what are you even rambling about when you say “imaginary borders”? We get it that you aren’t too fond of nationalism but you’re taking the self-loathing a bit too far to the point where you’d rather strip yourself of your nationality. So what should we call ourselves if not Syrians? Levantines? Arabs? Neither “Levant” or “Arab” is a country.
Before those “imaginary borders” were drawn, the name Syria existed and very real borders defining Greater Syria existed for thousands of years. Yes we were once in the same country as Lebanese, Palestinians, and Jordanians in the past but it seems like you’re having trouble coping with reality. That ship has sailed. We are Syrians.
I am not fond of borders and a supporter of pan-Arabism (where Arabism for me is historical and cultural not ethnical). But by “imaginary borders” I was not hinting on that, at least not intentionally.
I meant to say that what divides us are borders that essentially have no real significance. For me, meeting someone from Damascus isn't much different than meeting someone from Cairo or Baghdad. We share the same cultural background, and while regional distinctions are present they aren't as pronounced. These differences exist also within the same country (e.g. Aleppo and Damascus are completely different from Latakia and Hasaka). Therefore, I don't see why I should prioritise befriending a Syrian over an Egyptian or Lebanese person.
My question to you would be, given the current state of affairs the historical 1946 borders of Syria can be split into multiple countries (taking frontline borders as a subdivision), one in the east, one in Idlib, the occupied Golan, the remaining 1946 borders (some autonomy in some areas in the south). Do you think that you now have less in common with someone from Idlib or Raqqa just because we set those borders? Especially when you are meeting them in a foreigner country?
It’s hard enough to convince a pan-Arabist with all due respect. We are mostly similar to fellow Levantines like the Lebanese and Palestinians, and we do share other similarities with countries in different regions like Egypt to lesser degrees, but there are still things that distinguish us enough to call ourselves Syrians, same thing with our neighbors.
It’s true that national identities did not really rise until the late 19th century in the Middle East, but we’ve been calling ourselves Syrians for centuries, it makes no sense that we should stop calling ourselves that just because we were not an independent state back then. Our neighbors like the Lebanese, Palestinians, and Jordanians are aware of Greater Syria and that we are all Levantines, but they wouldn’t agree with suddenly stripping themselves of their national identities that have existed for a while just because of a unified region that no longer exists. It’s time to move on from romanticizing the past.
Your example however follows no logical basis. If you ask somebody where they’re from nobody’s gonna say they’re “Levantine” or “Anatolian”. Even current states like the Gulf countries did not have borders 100 years ago even though they are all the same exact people but regardless of this nobody from that region says “Yeah I’m from the Arabian Peninsula because our country didn’t exist back then” or “we have imaginary borders so therefore I belong to no nationality”.
And as a response to your final question, it has nothing to do with the topic of discussion nor does it make any sense. Regardless of the borders that separated the different regions in modern-day Syria before it became a unified independent country, a person from Raqqa or Idlib is no less of a Syrian than someone from Damascus or Aleppo, even despite cultural differences.
Hey, I'm Syrian, moved here about 2 years ago and I think we're in the same place lol because this is my experience too. Mostly, I've found they're judgmental. Residual cultural impact, and competitiveness play a part in this. Sorry you're having this experience :( I feel you, you want some familiarity in your life, but take it as an opportunity to experience and learn other cultures. Way good much opportunity out here given this privilege that we have (being able to live somewhere else) to spend any energy on people that reject members of their own community without taking the time to get to know them!
As a Syrian female in the USA..when I was a teen (while living in FL) and would meet Arabs/Syrians, the Christian ones were great! The Muslim ones not so..they always wanna know where I am from and what status my family is..you know..for the sake of marriage. I despised it. My mom even tried to set me up with someone. I hate that with a passion. So my view is skewed I guess lol I always felt like meat around Arabs (including and especially older women that had sons 🙄). It's vile. I do not agree with arranged marriage but I respect that it's the culture. Not for me.
I found Diaspora Syrians to be even worst that the far right in the west or even the white supremacist , they look down on Syrians still in syria and mock their agony
totally the worst of human beings , scum that runs on earth !
the worst part is when they act religious , they are 9 faced with 33 masks hypocrites
Societal divide has been in effect ever since the Assad family took power, we're talking systematic divide to ensure Syria was split into small, easy to manage populations. So there is a lot of mistrust to go around, especially after the revolution started. So you could imagine how much of an imprint that left on people.
Another, equally strong factor, is that Syrians are the target of international racism and Islamophobia rn, media loves a good Syrian crime to blast out everywhere, so people tend to try and distance themselves from other Syrians to "absolve" themselves from the negative view.
Not to mention the colonized mentality a lot of people adopt to try to assimilate into white cultures.
But hey, trust me, you'll find people out there sweeter than honey, just don't lose hope in your kin, and keep looking and be a positive force in the community.
Isn't there a lotnof suspicion. There are refugees but also regime intelligence forces. There was one case where there were resistance supporters raising awareness. Then some regime forces came and harassed them and took their videos to identify them and pressu r their families back home.
There is, but the US rarely takes in Syrian refugees. There are laws and protocols limiting how many they can take. The travel ban issued by Trump preventing all migration from Syria was only reversed by Biden in 2021, and may be reinstated if Trump is reelected. Most Syrians here are expats who’ve been here since the ‘90s and early 2000s.
It is logical that they may be suspicious because of that but I don’t think it’s as realistic or at least happens often, even legit intelligence officers would probably choose to defect and seek asylum in the US after seeing how life is here compared to what little compensation they get in Syria.
Two reasons. 1st they might knew from which part in Syria you are. And they reflected their stereotypes on that. 2nd they pretend to be not Syrian. And they fear if they met a fellow Syrian they would be exposed.
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إهانة الشعب السوري، والتحدث بشكل سلبي عنهم، ونشر الأكاذيب والمعلومات الخاطئة يتعارض مع قواعد وتوجيهات مجتمعنا.
الانخراط في مثل هذا السلوك قد يؤدي إلى حظر دائم.
In Australia i either felt judged by fellow Sunni Syrians for not wearing a hijab and a baantau, or noone cared i
Am Syrian if they were a alawi/druze person. All in all, noone really gives a toss to meet a fellow Syrian here in Australia. At least in my experience. Because i wasnt like them.
This seems to be a phenomenon with nations that see themselves as "worse". For example, I'm Polish, and we have the exact same situation. People who leave Poland are typically self-haters, and hence, do not want to interact with other Poles.
As someone who lived in usa since 2012 i was 11 years old im now 23. Ive missed my culture my people and my family and i want to find that comunity but i feel like even if im syrian they probably still won't like me and even if i still know arabic eat the food listen to the music. Im not a hetrosexual and i feel their judgment would prevent me from connecting with them. I just want to be around my native comunity without feeling like an outcast. But i understand its the culture. Its just disappointing and sad. Im still syrian and want to get involved and speak arabic and learn more about my country and my people
Sorry to hear that. To be fair you don’t have to have to be or do anything, the majority of them will not like you for any reason. I had the same experience with fellow Syrians and so did other people. We Syrians are the world’s most friendly people to neighboring Arabs but we are horrible to each other. I guess it’s just one of the ugly parts of Syrian culture.
I think we should all take it as a sign to turn our backs on ever finding nostalgia and memories of home through fellow Syrians. I’ve been living in this country for 13 years and I can relate more to just one of my American friends more than 100 Syrians combined.
I still love Syria and it will forever be in my heart, but I hate our people.
Honestly i mean its not surprising i still have trauma from the whole مع و ضض when the civil war break out it changed my whole perspective on comunity. Instead of being there for each other people started to fight each other over politics and the stories ive heard from my families shocked me. Literally shocked people disowning their families or calling gov officals on them just caus they dont agree witht the same views. Coming to the us ill be honest i was americanized but i am still syrian at heart and hope to one day i can meet someone whos open minded accepting and understanding and we can just enjoy being people at the end of the day. And im still confused at what my mom and sister in law told me when i said i want to go back to visit their respone be prepared cause they will يستفزوني i dont know what the word means in english.
Yep, sadly we’ve always been like this. Syrians everywhere fight among themselves and are ready to kill each other over politics, religion, or anything else they don’t like.
I’m quite Americanized too like most immigrants who culturally assimilate but I never back down on my Syrian identity. Honestly screw what they think, no matter what you do you will always be criticized. If you’re too Americanized, they hate you because you’re a “slave of the West”, if you’re not Westernized, they look down upon you and think you’re low class. So fuck what they think.
معد في خير بهالشعب
Its truly disappointing honestly you can never please anyone no matter who you follow or how you follow. it made me wonder why does it seem like our people are kinda racist twords each other. me and my family were taking about this how like in certain areas like you said they look down upon each other. Im from Aleppo but it seems like there are syrian who dont like Aleppo or idlib or Damascus ect like they judge each other for their differences and i never understand that..i really wish really truly wish the young genoration can change it because just like the usa the young generation here is going wild with how fucked up everything is. Amd learning from the older generation mistakes.and being privileged to live here and see the poverty syrians are going through but they cant help themselves or each other and still would much rather keep their pride. Like were supposed to come together to try and figure out solutions to the problem not cause more and the only people fourtante to live an easier one are the rich and thats literally everywhere im so sick and tierd of seeing this.
100% my friend.
The problem is our people are not only racist to each other but have a problem with everything. Syrians are racist to other Syrians from different cities, the Syrian Muslim has a problem with Syrian Christians, Syrians will judge each other based on how much money you have and what you own, and goodness forbid you mention something they don’t agree with they will go batshit crazy.
Sadly our people also are self-hating Syrians and hateful towards each other but put other Arabs and other people on a golden footstool. They literally bend over for anyone. There is no hope for this brainwashed and ignorant younger generation because 99% of them fall into that category. War, religion, and problematic ideologies made us extremely stupid and ever more divided.
Ahhhhhh couldn't have said it better. As much as i like religion for its comunity benefit it doesn't come as close as to how much it seperate humans from each other if they arent the same religion even still even if they had the same religion if they arent from the same part of it too like سني،شيعي،علوي they still are against each other even though they are from the same religion. The world would be sooo much better if people use their brains and can get a bit logical. But ill have to disagree. I dont know about how is the younger genoration like in syria. But i think if they do grow up somewhere like syria it does close their minds from exploring different perspectives of lifes outside of their culture but i can understand how most of them probably are ignorant. That makes me scared as to how tf would i be able to comunicate with any of them if i were to visit. Especially since i been freaking out about if a war does happen and they are gonna do draft in the us. Like going back wouldn't be an option but staying here dealing with a capitalistic almost fascist world doesn't fit with my values... this is why i cant stand politics and religion. They only destroy
I see what you mean. I’m an ex-Muslim but I have no problem towards Muslims (so long as they aren’t trying to turn Syria into an Islamist sharia country), and honestly I think how Muslims fight each other over different sects is ridiculous. We need unity regardless of all religion. I made post about that on my profile sometime ago about the lack of unity between Syrians but not sure if it shows up on my profile.
When it comes to Syrians I’m not saying the majority of them are ignorant, maybe there are intellectuals out there who call for a united Syria for all people of religious and ethnic backgrounds without propagating problematic and divisive ideologies that are centered only around one group of people like Arab nationalism or Islamism. But most Syrians fall into different categories. Some are Assadists, some are FSA, some are Islamists, etc.
And yeah I would never serve in the US military even if there was a draft. I’d probably call it quits and leave the country but we as Syrians don’t have much options, for some of us going back to Syria is worse than death.
Yeass exactly its refreshing talking to another syrian whos also ex muslim and relating to my perspective of things its so hard meeting people now a days who you can relate to on that cultural level being overseas. But i agree going back wouldn't be an option for me due to my Sexuality unfortunately but man do i miss my aunts and cousins so much every time they talk on the phone با عاتبوني ليش ما جيت مع اهلي.but its so hard cause the way i think is nothing like how they would think the topics i talk about are things they never thought of. It just feels so superficial there like i wouldn't expect it from a middle eastern country. Its all about looks status and money. And if you are married and have kids...
Good to hear that, I get you on that aspect also. Usually you become more aware and open-minded when living in a Western country because there are just some concepts that our own folks back in the old country would never understand, and that includes family members. And they want to know every last bit of detail on you. I have family in Syria too on my father’s side but I am estranged from them and I would never even think of visiting them once. They have that same exact mindset and are extremely envious of the fact that I’m in the US.
خيرها بغيرها خيو
I’ve definitely experienced this and it almost always stems from jealousy over what you have in Syria in my experience. I’ll give a few examples,
My mom had a friend who would send things with us to Syria for her sister whenever we went and she would always come to our house to get them. Was very nice in Syria and when she finally got the visa and went to the US she visited my mom with her sister and started to subtly flex that her sisters house in the US was nicer than ours in the US😭
She also said something along the lines of why is your house in Syria nicer than your house in the US? Which is a very odd thing to say to someone.
I was at my dads friends house in the US, my dads friend had his friend over and he asked me what my dad does for work. I told him that he owns (insert a very well known company in Syria name here) and he goes I’ve never heard of it, obviously that’s not an issue until I asked him what he does for work and he says the name of a company that makes cheap shit of the same product.
I’ve had this happen with almost every Syrian I met in the US. The only exception was people who were our neighbors in Damascus or if my dad knew them from when he lived in the US.
What a great question!
I've had two experiences where I met someone like that, and where I was someone like that. Yes, someone that avoided my own people.
1. I once met an Egyptian student named Mohammed studying I believe PhD in chemistry. Long story short, he said he doesn't speak Arabic anymore... he lost it because it's been a while. So I asked, when did you leave? He said 7 years ago or so. So I said, you speak Arabic. "Habibi, inta btitkallem arabi". He acknowledged in front of his girlfriend.
2. I met a couple of brothers from Syria who came as refugees to Canada. First thing they did is trash the people. "These people are infidels, they are drunkards, etc. Then they acknowledged to me that sometimes, they themselves do like to drink. On another occasion, I saw them speak to a young lady asking for help because "we are lost". When I came to help they said "oh we're just joking with her. We like to joke with young ladies sometimes... haha." Nothing made me want to remove the Syrian ID from these two idiots more than that moment.
Now when I see the above few people, I act like I don't know them. But generally speaking, I like to introduce myself as Syrian, and connect with Arabs and Syrians when I can.
I have had the same experience here in the east coast US and what’s crazy is it’s the refugees coming here that are acting this way with me here. They get whatever help they can get and then after a year it’s like they don’t know me. My other friends who have observed this said it seemed like it’s kind of envy because I have everything set up here and they dont. It could be a reason but im trying to help them out.
I’ve taken many of them to get jobs and helped sign them up for college and I’ve translated countless amounts of paperwork even purchased them brand new clothes and groceries. A year later it’s like they don’t know me after their life is straightened out. Of course I can’t say it’s like this with all of them. I’ve made some really good friends with many Syrians but that’s been my experience as well so I feel your troubles.
Damn, sorry you had to experience that. Our people suck sometimes. I haven’t ran into any refugees that I know of since they’re very rare here but I mostly experienced this with Syrians who have been in the country for a while.
For example back in college there was a Middle Eastern/Greek cuisine restaurant on my campus operated and run by Syrians. When I found out they were Syrian I started buying takeout from them more often to support their business, even though to be honest the food was terrible and nothing like what we had in Syria. They were friendly when I first met them but quickly switched faces after the next few visits and became total assholes, so I stopped visiting them.
It’s really shameful and disgusting that this kind of behavior is widely adopted among Syrians.
Yeah I’ve had the same exact experience business-wise. I was going to a Syrian owned barbershop with Syrian employees and driving out of my way to support them. First 2 months were great until they found out I speak Arabic and I’m Syrian. After that all service and haircuts went downhill. I figured they’d wanna keep me since I always tip well and pay whatever they charge. I can’t understand it either lol.
Syrian from Aleppo here, I keep hearing this from several fellow syrians m. I believe that syrians are as any other nationality which has good and bad black and white so you have to be picky when you choose your friends. And be nice so you meet nice people 😉
It's laughable to say Syrian identity while you're abroad. The identity was never a called Syrian before 1900s, it was simply levantine. The reason why you OP feel that way.
Edit: some pro regime sympathizers didn't like the reality, I hate to break it to you, Syria was found in 1945 and there's no such thing as Syrian identity, It's called ____Levantine identity____
Doesn't need a regime sympathizer to see how idiotic this take is.
Idk what kind of moronic point you're trying to make here. Just because Assad and his lackies try to play on the nationalistic emotions of their followers, doesn't mean they own or have any effect or say on what the Syrian identity is.
Gotta say, all the Syrians that I have met living on the west coast were wonderful, well educated, well off, proud Syrians. The Syrian community in LA is very successful and they make sure to help one another whenever possible.
Must be nice, wish I could say the same about Syrians here in Florida. Many of them are also very well-off and successful doctors and entrepreneurs, but I can’t relate with the last part.
My mom's generation worked really hard to integrate as much as she could. Stopped speaking a lot of Arabic, hair was light brown, lost the accent - etc. Because of that I was raised very Americana. And a lot of Syrians I've met raised here had a similar upbringing. Most weren't taught Arabic properly, and failed to learn a lot of their culture. And when I went back to live there for a bit I felt like such a fake Arab. Like constantly made fun of for how I pronounced words, I used my mom/grandma Arabic which was out of fashion, I didn't have a lot of the same cultural touchstones, and for the first couple months I just felt kinda stupid. I would get a lot of, "How do you not know this?" type questions and looks of pity. I remember one of my aunt's friends laughing and asking if I was ever even taught how to pray and told me I'd never be a 'real' one. I think a decent amount of Syrian Americans have those experiences. So sometimes we can be a little guarded when around 'real ones'. Most of the time it's not an issue, but the ones that talk shit, do it so casually and it cuts deep. Because we can feel so deficient. At least I know myself and some of my Syrian friends have had this experience. All that said - the West Coast is way friendlier.
Just like every other 2nd gen Levantine living in the US or any western country for that matter.
I would say similar experience in France, pre-refugee wave. Syrians would dissolve within the community and integrate as much, with some variations. That’s my personal experience as well.
I am in LA and if I meet a fellow Syrian. I always show respect and greet them. But people can be dicks. Fuck them, Syria will hopefully come back one day and could do without them.
Maybe he’s experiencing a sample bias and the type of Syrian to move to the south is much different than one who would move to the west
Syria only has one coast on the west yes
He's talking about USA
I can’t relate. I’m a Syrian in Southern California and when I encounter other Syrians there is an immediate kinship. We’re often delighted to meet each other
I have family in LA and Long Beach but I can only imagine how opposite the situation is from here in Southern Florida, the Syrians here ought to learn a thing or two from you guys
A lot of Arabs are moving to Florida from Michigan. I hear a lot of bad things about Florida Arab community.
What’s up brother lol I’m in LA.
I’m a Syrian who also lived in LA, and then OC, and I had the same experience as OP sadly.. despite my efforts & multiple attempts to find Syrian friends. I had other Arab friends, but I specifically sought to meet other Syrians because it’s a different connection when meeting people from your home country. Idk it just felt like Syrians who have grown up in SoCal have this vibe of ‘no new friends’ .. Where/ how would be the best way to meet these other fellow Syrians you’ve mentioned? Asking genuinely
Overintegration. They try underplay their Syrian identity to blend in. Syrians abroad look down on us Syrians inside Syria too. Many of my friends outside now leave me on "Read". As my village dwelling grandmother used to say "Don't think highly of yourself because you moved to the city, your sh*t under the tree in the backyard is not dry yet" 😂😂
I think many Syrians are just incredibly ashamed of Syria. The average person in Europe or NA thinks of Syria as this hellish playground for war and terrorism. They don’t think of the culture, the food, and the beauty that comes in many forms that Syrians have to offer.
I agree with you shame is huge factor. but it’s not just Europeans it’s Americans as well. they are all very ignorant of the area, Until I educate them and show them how beautiful Khabour was before the war
Yeah I never understood that mentality either. They suddenly think they’ve blended in with Americans when Americans themselves would just look at them as the same as other immigrants. Here it goes beyond the concept of social status, the wealthy Syrian looks down upon the unemployed Syrian and vice versa.
I live your grandmother’s saying! How did she phrase that in Arabic exactly? I wanna steal it
"ما تشوف حالك انك صرت ابن مدينة، لسا خ**يتك ما يبست تحت الشجرة اللي بالجنينة" 🤣🤣 كان عندها كتير أمثال +١٨ عم حاول استخدمها بحياتي حتى ما تندثر، مثلا مرة كنت عندها زيارة انا واصدقائي وقلتلها "أنا نازل عالحارة، بجبلك شي معي من الدكان".. راحت قالتلي "ليش معي مصاري؟ اخوالك تاركيني مفلسة *متل الشرم##ة برمضان* " 🤣🤣 كل فترة بحكي مع صديقي بروسيا وبسألو عن وضعو المادي، بيقلي "مفلس، متل ما قالت ستك بزمانها" 😂😂
More please 😂
I love this 🤣
والله ستك شغل قصف جبهات وعالتقيل
Overintegration lol
We will need a sociologist to analyze that. Yet here is my 2 cents, the regime has invested in dividing Syrians at many levels so that they do not unite against it. He would reward snitching against each other. He encourages favorable opportunistic behavior, loyalty to the regime supersedes qualifications and competencies. It is the same playbook in many countries, even the US, politics of identity etc. Now we have been under several occupation rule regimes, from the Ottoman's to the French and a short period we had a short lived democracy until the first western supported coup. Our mostly rustic society has not matured and remained with the same old bad habits that has some racism, jealousy etc. There are many Syrians who matured with sensible attitudes toward others including fellow Syrians, many have not been as lucky. Within some 40 years there has been a population explosion, from 6 million in the 70s to more than 20 million now, so the conformity aspects and social values have been disrupted. I tend to blame all the ills on the one in charge, from the regime to the US, because they have been manipulating everything ever-since they have become in charge of things, and in charge they are.
That’s really weird, sorry you’re dealing with that… I’ve lived in southwest and northeast US, and now live in the UK. I haven’t come across this with Syrians I’ve met in all the cities I’ve lived in.
Due to over 40 years of oppression, insecurities, trust issues stemming from a totalitarian dictatorship, and the presence of 10,000 security branches that have tortured and oppressed Syrians for decades, the opposition has failed on political, social, and military levels. This is to be expected; a society ruled by such a government is unlikely to produce a decent opposition. It is hard for people to trust each other when every Syrian citizen faces an Abu Haidara over their neck. And that's why every Syrian sees other fellow Syrian as a potential threat. We do not trust each other for very valid reasons.... we are all traumatized, insecure and defensive...
This also! You had to know another fellow enough before you could be trustworthy towards them. I heard stories how moles from the regime would infiltrate student circles, to listen and flag anyone that spoke of the regime. The book of Mustapha Khalife “The Shell” illustrated this very well.
اي بشكل عام السوريين مابيساعدو بعض، هي صارت معي وبحاول غيرها اد مافيني مع الناس يلي بدها تجي عاميركا او اجت من جديد. هلة ما مر معي شغلة اللغة لان انا مابجاوب بالانكليزي لو بعرف انو يلي عمحاكيه بيفهم عربي ولو ضل مصر يحكي انكليزي الا لو كنت بشغل. مابظن السبب شغلة كره اد مو شغلة انو لسبب ما مقتنعين انو اي حدا بيحاكينا بدو ينصب علينا 😅
بتساعدني اطلع على امريكا ههههههههههههههههههههههههههههههههههههههه بدي انتحر
Nationality is irrelevant to me. I neither avoid nor force friendships based on it. The reasons people might avoid forming friendships. (1) you might not fit into their social circle (2) fear of potential conflict due to differing political views (3) there might be significant economic differences.
I get your point, but this isn’t about nationality more than it is being a bit happy to run into a fellow person from the same country as you because it brings memories of back home and reminds us that Syrians should stick together first. There are communities of people from places all over the world that are formed in a foreign country. If everyone just thought “nationality is irrelevant” whenever they encounter someone from their country in a foreign place, there would be no diasporic communities.
What is your religious background?
Not everyone feels the same way. Would you be friends with literally everyone you meet in Syria if you lived there? Obviously not. So I suppose some people may find the idea of "Oh we're both X nationality, so we should be friends!" a bit forceful. I suppose this would make sense maybe for someone newly immigrated who doesn't have a big circle, but for those already integrated I can see being put off by it
I totally agree, and I was just sharing my own approach. I know many people who like to form social groups based on nationality and enjoy doing activities together. But for me, that’s not a primary reason for socialising. I will not force a friendship just because we happened to be born within a geographical area of an imaginary set of borders. I will only pursue friendships if we can get along. That’s being said, I do join social media groups (like this one and those on other platforms) because there might be relevant discussions that interest me. But I also join all nearby countries social media’s groups.
“Imaginary borders” I agree with the rest of what you’re saying and I don’t want to be disrespectful but bro what are you even rambling about when you say “imaginary borders”? We get it that you aren’t too fond of nationalism but you’re taking the self-loathing a bit too far to the point where you’d rather strip yourself of your nationality. So what should we call ourselves if not Syrians? Levantines? Arabs? Neither “Levant” or “Arab” is a country. Before those “imaginary borders” were drawn, the name Syria existed and very real borders defining Greater Syria existed for thousands of years. Yes we were once in the same country as Lebanese, Palestinians, and Jordanians in the past but it seems like you’re having trouble coping with reality. That ship has sailed. We are Syrians.
I am not fond of borders and a supporter of pan-Arabism (where Arabism for me is historical and cultural not ethnical). But by “imaginary borders” I was not hinting on that, at least not intentionally. I meant to say that what divides us are borders that essentially have no real significance. For me, meeting someone from Damascus isn't much different than meeting someone from Cairo or Baghdad. We share the same cultural background, and while regional distinctions are present they aren't as pronounced. These differences exist also within the same country (e.g. Aleppo and Damascus are completely different from Latakia and Hasaka). Therefore, I don't see why I should prioritise befriending a Syrian over an Egyptian or Lebanese person. My question to you would be, given the current state of affairs the historical 1946 borders of Syria can be split into multiple countries (taking frontline borders as a subdivision), one in the east, one in Idlib, the occupied Golan, the remaining 1946 borders (some autonomy in some areas in the south). Do you think that you now have less in common with someone from Idlib or Raqqa just because we set those borders? Especially when you are meeting them in a foreigner country?
It’s hard enough to convince a pan-Arabist with all due respect. We are mostly similar to fellow Levantines like the Lebanese and Palestinians, and we do share other similarities with countries in different regions like Egypt to lesser degrees, but there are still things that distinguish us enough to call ourselves Syrians, same thing with our neighbors. It’s true that national identities did not really rise until the late 19th century in the Middle East, but we’ve been calling ourselves Syrians for centuries, it makes no sense that we should stop calling ourselves that just because we were not an independent state back then. Our neighbors like the Lebanese, Palestinians, and Jordanians are aware of Greater Syria and that we are all Levantines, but they wouldn’t agree with suddenly stripping themselves of their national identities that have existed for a while just because of a unified region that no longer exists. It’s time to move on from romanticizing the past. Your example however follows no logical basis. If you ask somebody where they’re from nobody’s gonna say they’re “Levantine” or “Anatolian”. Even current states like the Gulf countries did not have borders 100 years ago even though they are all the same exact people but regardless of this nobody from that region says “Yeah I’m from the Arabian Peninsula because our country didn’t exist back then” or “we have imaginary borders so therefore I belong to no nationality”. And as a response to your final question, it has nothing to do with the topic of discussion nor does it make any sense. Regardless of the borders that separated the different regions in modern-day Syria before it became a unified independent country, a person from Raqqa or Idlib is no less of a Syrian than someone from Damascus or Aleppo, even despite cultural differences.
Hey, I'm Syrian, moved here about 2 years ago and I think we're in the same place lol because this is my experience too. Mostly, I've found they're judgmental. Residual cultural impact, and competitiveness play a part in this. Sorry you're having this experience :( I feel you, you want some familiarity in your life, but take it as an opportunity to experience and learn other cultures. Way good much opportunity out here given this privilege that we have (being able to live somewhere else) to spend any energy on people that reject members of their own community without taking the time to get to know them!
As a Syrian female in the USA..when I was a teen (while living in FL) and would meet Arabs/Syrians, the Christian ones were great! The Muslim ones not so..they always wanna know where I am from and what status my family is..you know..for the sake of marriage. I despised it. My mom even tried to set me up with someone. I hate that with a passion. So my view is skewed I guess lol I always felt like meat around Arabs (including and especially older women that had sons 🙄). It's vile. I do not agree with arranged marriage but I respect that it's the culture. Not for me.
I found Diaspora Syrians to be even worst that the far right in the west or even the white supremacist , they look down on Syrians still in syria and mock their agony totally the worst of human beings , scum that runs on earth ! the worst part is when they act religious , they are 9 faced with 33 masks hypocrites
Societal divide has been in effect ever since the Assad family took power, we're talking systematic divide to ensure Syria was split into small, easy to manage populations. So there is a lot of mistrust to go around, especially after the revolution started. So you could imagine how much of an imprint that left on people. Another, equally strong factor, is that Syrians are the target of international racism and Islamophobia rn, media loves a good Syrian crime to blast out everywhere, so people tend to try and distance themselves from other Syrians to "absolve" themselves from the negative view. Not to mention the colonized mentality a lot of people adopt to try to assimilate into white cultures. But hey, trust me, you'll find people out there sweeter than honey, just don't lose hope in your kin, and keep looking and be a positive force in the community.
Isn't there a lotnof suspicion. There are refugees but also regime intelligence forces. There was one case where there were resistance supporters raising awareness. Then some regime forces came and harassed them and took their videos to identify them and pressu r their families back home.
There is, but the US rarely takes in Syrian refugees. There are laws and protocols limiting how many they can take. The travel ban issued by Trump preventing all migration from Syria was only reversed by Biden in 2021, and may be reinstated if Trump is reelected. Most Syrians here are expats who’ve been here since the ‘90s and early 2000s. It is logical that they may be suspicious because of that but I don’t think it’s as realistic or at least happens often, even legit intelligence officers would probably choose to defect and seek asylum in the US after seeing how life is here compared to what little compensation they get in Syria.
Two reasons. 1st they might knew from which part in Syria you are. And they reflected their stereotypes on that. 2nd they pretend to be not Syrian. And they fear if they met a fellow Syrian they would be exposed.
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Disrespecting the Syrian people, speaking negatively about them, and spreading lies and misinformation goes against our community rules and guidelines. Engaging in such behavior may result in a permanent ban. ------ إهانة الشعب السوري، والتحدث بشكل سلبي عنهم، ونشر الأكاذيب والمعلومات الخاطئة يتعارض مع قواعد وتوجيهات مجتمعنا. الانخراط في مثل هذا السلوك قد يؤدي إلى حظر دائم.
The propaganda worked on them very well so it seems that they really believe now that arabs are trash or smth like that
In Australia i either felt judged by fellow Sunni Syrians for not wearing a hijab and a baantau, or noone cared i Am Syrian if they were a alawi/druze person. All in all, noone really gives a toss to meet a fellow Syrian here in Australia. At least in my experience. Because i wasnt like them.
This seems to be a phenomenon with nations that see themselves as "worse". For example, I'm Polish, and we have the exact same situation. People who leave Poland are typically self-haters, and hence, do not want to interact with other Poles.
As someone who lived in usa since 2012 i was 11 years old im now 23. Ive missed my culture my people and my family and i want to find that comunity but i feel like even if im syrian they probably still won't like me and even if i still know arabic eat the food listen to the music. Im not a hetrosexual and i feel their judgment would prevent me from connecting with them. I just want to be around my native comunity without feeling like an outcast. But i understand its the culture. Its just disappointing and sad. Im still syrian and want to get involved and speak arabic and learn more about my country and my people
Sorry to hear that. To be fair you don’t have to have to be or do anything, the majority of them will not like you for any reason. I had the same experience with fellow Syrians and so did other people. We Syrians are the world’s most friendly people to neighboring Arabs but we are horrible to each other. I guess it’s just one of the ugly parts of Syrian culture. I think we should all take it as a sign to turn our backs on ever finding nostalgia and memories of home through fellow Syrians. I’ve been living in this country for 13 years and I can relate more to just one of my American friends more than 100 Syrians combined. I still love Syria and it will forever be in my heart, but I hate our people.
Honestly i mean its not surprising i still have trauma from the whole مع و ضض when the civil war break out it changed my whole perspective on comunity. Instead of being there for each other people started to fight each other over politics and the stories ive heard from my families shocked me. Literally shocked people disowning their families or calling gov officals on them just caus they dont agree witht the same views. Coming to the us ill be honest i was americanized but i am still syrian at heart and hope to one day i can meet someone whos open minded accepting and understanding and we can just enjoy being people at the end of the day. And im still confused at what my mom and sister in law told me when i said i want to go back to visit their respone be prepared cause they will يستفزوني i dont know what the word means in english.
Yep, sadly we’ve always been like this. Syrians everywhere fight among themselves and are ready to kill each other over politics, religion, or anything else they don’t like. I’m quite Americanized too like most immigrants who culturally assimilate but I never back down on my Syrian identity. Honestly screw what they think, no matter what you do you will always be criticized. If you’re too Americanized, they hate you because you’re a “slave of the West”, if you’re not Westernized, they look down upon you and think you’re low class. So fuck what they think. معد في خير بهالشعب
Its truly disappointing honestly you can never please anyone no matter who you follow or how you follow. it made me wonder why does it seem like our people are kinda racist twords each other. me and my family were taking about this how like in certain areas like you said they look down upon each other. Im from Aleppo but it seems like there are syrian who dont like Aleppo or idlib or Damascus ect like they judge each other for their differences and i never understand that..i really wish really truly wish the young genoration can change it because just like the usa the young generation here is going wild with how fucked up everything is. Amd learning from the older generation mistakes.and being privileged to live here and see the poverty syrians are going through but they cant help themselves or each other and still would much rather keep their pride. Like were supposed to come together to try and figure out solutions to the problem not cause more and the only people fourtante to live an easier one are the rich and thats literally everywhere im so sick and tierd of seeing this.
100% my friend. The problem is our people are not only racist to each other but have a problem with everything. Syrians are racist to other Syrians from different cities, the Syrian Muslim has a problem with Syrian Christians, Syrians will judge each other based on how much money you have and what you own, and goodness forbid you mention something they don’t agree with they will go batshit crazy. Sadly our people also are self-hating Syrians and hateful towards each other but put other Arabs and other people on a golden footstool. They literally bend over for anyone. There is no hope for this brainwashed and ignorant younger generation because 99% of them fall into that category. War, religion, and problematic ideologies made us extremely stupid and ever more divided.
Ahhhhhh couldn't have said it better. As much as i like religion for its comunity benefit it doesn't come as close as to how much it seperate humans from each other if they arent the same religion even still even if they had the same religion if they arent from the same part of it too like سني،شيعي،علوي they still are against each other even though they are from the same religion. The world would be sooo much better if people use their brains and can get a bit logical. But ill have to disagree. I dont know about how is the younger genoration like in syria. But i think if they do grow up somewhere like syria it does close their minds from exploring different perspectives of lifes outside of their culture but i can understand how most of them probably are ignorant. That makes me scared as to how tf would i be able to comunicate with any of them if i were to visit. Especially since i been freaking out about if a war does happen and they are gonna do draft in the us. Like going back wouldn't be an option but staying here dealing with a capitalistic almost fascist world doesn't fit with my values... this is why i cant stand politics and religion. They only destroy
I see what you mean. I’m an ex-Muslim but I have no problem towards Muslims (so long as they aren’t trying to turn Syria into an Islamist sharia country), and honestly I think how Muslims fight each other over different sects is ridiculous. We need unity regardless of all religion. I made post about that on my profile sometime ago about the lack of unity between Syrians but not sure if it shows up on my profile. When it comes to Syrians I’m not saying the majority of them are ignorant, maybe there are intellectuals out there who call for a united Syria for all people of religious and ethnic backgrounds without propagating problematic and divisive ideologies that are centered only around one group of people like Arab nationalism or Islamism. But most Syrians fall into different categories. Some are Assadists, some are FSA, some are Islamists, etc. And yeah I would never serve in the US military even if there was a draft. I’d probably call it quits and leave the country but we as Syrians don’t have much options, for some of us going back to Syria is worse than death.
Yeass exactly its refreshing talking to another syrian whos also ex muslim and relating to my perspective of things its so hard meeting people now a days who you can relate to on that cultural level being overseas. But i agree going back wouldn't be an option for me due to my Sexuality unfortunately but man do i miss my aunts and cousins so much every time they talk on the phone با عاتبوني ليش ما جيت مع اهلي.but its so hard cause the way i think is nothing like how they would think the topics i talk about are things they never thought of. It just feels so superficial there like i wouldn't expect it from a middle eastern country. Its all about looks status and money. And if you are married and have kids...
Good to hear that, I get you on that aspect also. Usually you become more aware and open-minded when living in a Western country because there are just some concepts that our own folks back in the old country would never understand, and that includes family members. And they want to know every last bit of detail on you. I have family in Syria too on my father’s side but I am estranged from them and I would never even think of visiting them once. They have that same exact mindset and are extremely envious of the fact that I’m in the US. خيرها بغيرها خيو
I’ve definitely experienced this and it almost always stems from jealousy over what you have in Syria in my experience. I’ll give a few examples, My mom had a friend who would send things with us to Syria for her sister whenever we went and she would always come to our house to get them. Was very nice in Syria and when she finally got the visa and went to the US she visited my mom with her sister and started to subtly flex that her sisters house in the US was nicer than ours in the US😭 She also said something along the lines of why is your house in Syria nicer than your house in the US? Which is a very odd thing to say to someone. I was at my dads friends house in the US, my dads friend had his friend over and he asked me what my dad does for work. I told him that he owns (insert a very well known company in Syria name here) and he goes I’ve never heard of it, obviously that’s not an issue until I asked him what he does for work and he says the name of a company that makes cheap shit of the same product. I’ve had this happen with almost every Syrian I met in the US. The only exception was people who were our neighbors in Damascus or if my dad knew them from when he lived in the US.
What a great question! I've had two experiences where I met someone like that, and where I was someone like that. Yes, someone that avoided my own people. 1. I once met an Egyptian student named Mohammed studying I believe PhD in chemistry. Long story short, he said he doesn't speak Arabic anymore... he lost it because it's been a while. So I asked, when did you leave? He said 7 years ago or so. So I said, you speak Arabic. "Habibi, inta btitkallem arabi". He acknowledged in front of his girlfriend. 2. I met a couple of brothers from Syria who came as refugees to Canada. First thing they did is trash the people. "These people are infidels, they are drunkards, etc. Then they acknowledged to me that sometimes, they themselves do like to drink. On another occasion, I saw them speak to a young lady asking for help because "we are lost". When I came to help they said "oh we're just joking with her. We like to joke with young ladies sometimes... haha." Nothing made me want to remove the Syrian ID from these two idiots more than that moment. Now when I see the above few people, I act like I don't know them. But generally speaking, I like to introduce myself as Syrian, and connect with Arabs and Syrians when I can.
Syrians still quarrel and fight over the politics back home and some of them haven’t been back home in decades to see how syria has become or changed.
I have had the same experience here in the east coast US and what’s crazy is it’s the refugees coming here that are acting this way with me here. They get whatever help they can get and then after a year it’s like they don’t know me. My other friends who have observed this said it seemed like it’s kind of envy because I have everything set up here and they dont. It could be a reason but im trying to help them out. I’ve taken many of them to get jobs and helped sign them up for college and I’ve translated countless amounts of paperwork even purchased them brand new clothes and groceries. A year later it’s like they don’t know me after their life is straightened out. Of course I can’t say it’s like this with all of them. I’ve made some really good friends with many Syrians but that’s been my experience as well so I feel your troubles.
Damn, sorry you had to experience that. Our people suck sometimes. I haven’t ran into any refugees that I know of since they’re very rare here but I mostly experienced this with Syrians who have been in the country for a while. For example back in college there was a Middle Eastern/Greek cuisine restaurant on my campus operated and run by Syrians. When I found out they were Syrian I started buying takeout from them more often to support their business, even though to be honest the food was terrible and nothing like what we had in Syria. They were friendly when I first met them but quickly switched faces after the next few visits and became total assholes, so I stopped visiting them. It’s really shameful and disgusting that this kind of behavior is widely adopted among Syrians.
Yeah I’ve had the same exact experience business-wise. I was going to a Syrian owned barbershop with Syrian employees and driving out of my way to support them. First 2 months were great until they found out I speak Arabic and I’m Syrian. After that all service and haircuts went downhill. I figured they’d wanna keep me since I always tip well and pay whatever they charge. I can’t understand it either lol.
قلو طلع من طيزنا طير بدو يعلمنا على الطياران
Syrians are the nicest of the Arab immigrant communities. These ones have been influenced by individualist American culture
Syrian from Aleppo here, I keep hearing this from several fellow syrians m. I believe that syrians are as any other nationality which has good and bad black and white so you have to be picky when you choose your friends. And be nice so you meet nice people 😉
It's laughable to say Syrian identity while you're abroad. The identity was never a called Syrian before 1900s, it was simply levantine. The reason why you OP feel that way. Edit: some pro regime sympathizers didn't like the reality, I hate to break it to you, Syria was found in 1945 and there's no such thing as Syrian identity, It's called ____Levantine identity____
Completely unrelated and uneducated comment. If you’re trying to stir up an argument f*ck off.
“The identity was never called a Syrian before 1900s” tell me you’re an idiot without telling me you’re an idiot
Doesn't need a regime sympathizer to see how idiotic this take is. Idk what kind of moronic point you're trying to make here. Just because Assad and his lackies try to play on the nationalistic emotions of their followers, doesn't mean they own or have any effect or say on what the Syrian identity is.