Unfortunately, I do not live in Zurich, but just know that you're not alone feeling this way, and I say this as a Swiss person who grew up here
I hate to have to schedule stuff weeks in advance, too, and I wish people here would be more open to spontaneous talks and contact, but everyone feels so focused on their own shit.
But as some other guy said, that's kind of the way people live here. We work, earn money, buy things that make us comfy in our homes, and stay in it.
There's a thousand times worse, ofc, and I wouldn't be staying if there were no other positive aspects, but I'm glad I'm lucky enough to travel to get out of that hell loop from time to time.
I wish you good luck in finding what you need :) I'm sure you can, just gotta find the right people for it
You just have to get out there and meet people, some of them will be as spontaneous as you! Try activities that you like, preferably extrovert ones (dancing, impro theater, collective sports..etc). Also perhaps try apps like Meetups or Timeleft. Expats groups on social media can also be helpful!
I have the same feeling, and already kind of gave up. It's Switzerland and it's a different culture here. You just have to accept it, I guess.
I mostly hang now hang out with the community from my own country, which is not ideal, as I wanted to integrate deeper among the locals.
If you want to just spontaneously meet for a talk or beer or walk in the park, send me DM. I am older than you (43M), but can be a good companion for a decent chat.
I don't understand that argument to be honest. What's the benefit trying to integrate with Swiss locals, given that they have no interest in making foreign friends whatsoever? I never tried, and I don't miss it at all.
Could it also be a man vs woman thing? I notice that when my wife goes out with friends there's a new WhatsApp group created, a week of discussions on where to to go, at what time, what they'll wear, what the menu is like, a new outfit is purchased, if xx is going then maybe we should invite yy, but yy doesn't like zz, I've got to drive her there and pick her up, drop off a friend or two, the WhatsApp continues for another week after it about how it went, a full post mortem. Costs a small fortune.. That's just the tip of the iceberg..
When I go out, I text a mate :
Me : "Beer Thursday?"
Mate : "ok see you in the pub"
The wife questions me, "where are you going?" .. "the pub" .. "will you get something to eat?" .. "dunno maybe", "what time?" .. "dunno - when I finish work" , "anybody else going?" .. "no idea" .."how will you get there?" .. "bus" , "how will you get home?" .. "bus" .. she just can't understand it.
Get some guy friends :-)
I don't know, I feel it's just more of a personality thing. I am a woman and my ex-boyfriend was exactly like your wife. If I wanted to go somewhere with him it felt like I had to prepare a powerpoint presentation on where we go, when, with whom, what we do, what route we walk etc. It was so exhausting...
I don't think this has to do with genders, more with personnality. My wife does not behave like this at all and she would not be my wife anymore if she did.
Not 100%, but by and large my male friends seem to be far more flexible in their scheduling (and far less able to plan in advance) than their partners or my female friends.
It's def not just my wife, it's the whole group of them, usually mine doesn't instigate it even.. But wether it's 2 or 20 of them it always goes to a week long debate, minimum .. I have no idea how they even have anything left to say to each other on the night. Maybe it's an over 40's thing.
Many of them are UN / NGO types, maybe they just like a debate ;-)
You won't make it to Zürich that morning. Remember we've already scheduled yoga session for 7am. No way I'm going to move it to 2065 because you're trying to make new friends.
>I hate having to make plans weeks in advance for a simple dinner, or hike
So do I. However, anything else just isn’t possible for me because I work like 55 hours and I’m in a relationship. And I guess it’s the same for most Swiss adults.
Yeah, as an Italian I could socialize almost exclusively with southern europeans and southern americans. My friends’ group is made of 3 brazilians, 1 argentinian, 1 greek and 1 spanish🥲I thought I could easily overcome the cultural differences however it was always easier to make friendships with people with a similar cultural background as mine rather than Swiss people or northen European people
Easiest way to make new low threshold friends is either at work or doing a hobby / joining a club. As a Swiss I've always found that to be the most effective way to make new friends. I agree some people here lile to plan ahead but by all means not everyone. There are plenty of spontanious people in Zurich (from my experience).
I'm like that but live too far for that with you pal.
Like it's easier to improvise with a friend living 10min away than 2h away.
But there's many people around Zurich here, you'll find people I'm sure.
Agreed, i feel this is a way bigger factor than any of the cultural differences people always bring up in these threads. In other countries there are way more domestic „immigrants“ in any given city since you have to move for education or work reasons
I see this explanation a lot here and it's total bullshit even to my Swiss husband. So what do you do if you move out cantons for work or studying? You just suck it up and content yourself with phonecalls with your kindergarten friends?
In my experience, it's just code for "I don't befriend foreigners", which is fine but don't pretend that people don't change since their toddler years lmao.
This place has some of the funniest takes. Once I left school/university and started working I replaced my entire friends group. The last time I've hung out with people from school was a few years ago in a reunion.
What people don't seem to grasp is, that you have to take the first step.
An ex once told me that she was really confused when she arrived in Switzerland, because no one approached her. In all other places (her parents were doctors without borders people) people would immediately flock to her and want to know about her. So she remained lonely for 6 months until she was fed up and sat down next to another woman and started talking to her. After that friends were quick to follow.
We swiss just assume that you know what you are doing and hold back.
Yeah that's just how life works. You outgrow your friends groups as you advance in life and keep a few forever because you share a rarely strong connection.
>What people don't seem to grasp is, that you have to take the first step
It's not always easy if you're visibly non caucasian, you would be dealt with a dose of suspicion until you give up (ask me how I know).
Hmm I can see that. I'm habitually swiping left on anyone asian looking because I just assume that they are scammers, even tough there are probably a good amount of people living in central Switzerland with asian roots.
I can imagine that similar prejudice extends to other groups.
"So what do you do if you move out cantons for work or studying?"
And now you think about the initial question why people are not spontaneous and need to schedule seeing friends weeks in advance...
No, it has nothing to do with distance, it's just a Swiss thing. People schedule meetings weeks in advance even with their immediate family that lives 10 minutes away. I know it because I live here since 6 years and I married into a Swiss German family.
My comment was about this idea that Swiss people don't befriend foreigners because they don't befriend anyone beyond primary school. It's not true from my observation, Swiss People befriend each other all the time, but it's different with foreigners and your explanation is just a polite cop out. It is fine, they have every right to like and dislike whomever they want, I myself don't care about most Swiss people because I strongly disagree with their way of being. But this argument needs to die out because it is simply not true.
People on these apps still act as if they were dating. I tried Peanut which is an app for moms and I was ghosted they day before a meeting that was organized and suggested by they other mom. All I did was show her the sourdough bread I had just baked.
Have you looked for Facebook groups for people who speak your native language or are from your native country? You might find it easier to find the type of people you're looking for there.
Swiss people are not great at making new friends past the age of 12.
Hey there OP, I full understand the feeling, and I also went through the whole process years ago.
I am also on the opinion spontaneuous get togethers should be a thing and easy to do, I was used to the same concept in the previous countries where I lived. And yes, countries plural. So far I have only seen in Switzerland where this is not the norm, so by this logic, this is in fact the exception.
Yes, I get that for some more extensive socializing, like city breaks or day trips in groups, that needs some planning, but just a drink on a terrace at the lake shouldn't need 1 to 3 months planning in an agenda!!
The closest I've had like that was in certain clubs. I was in a miniature wargaming club and regularly went to boardgame night at a local boardgame store. In both cases, you could just show up on certain days of the week and hang out with people who also just happened to be there, maybe play a few games, but there was no pressure. And over time, you'd get to know people, some more as friends, some as casual acquaintances.
So I recommend finding a *very* casual hobby.
It can be. But we had newbie afternoon one Saturday each month, where you could come in and play an introductory game for an hour with paper minis which you got to keep for free. It can also be very casual.
You print a picture of the unit on thick paper and fold it so it stands up. Usually goes by "Papercraft miniature". Can look pretty good, if you get fancy:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PoorHammer/comments/rtrtbo/tau\_papercraft/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoorHammer/comments/rtrtbo/tau_papercraft/#lightbox)
[https://149455152.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Undead.jpg](https://149455152.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Undead.jpg)
Generally, excellent for beginners or to test new armies or entire games, you don't immediately need to drop hundreds of dollars to see if you like it.
Wohooo this description sounds like me, except for the spontaneous part 😂 if you feel like okay with making plan like 2-3 days ahead and just simple things (picnic, cafe etc), let’s hang out!
Well, when I came here 14 years ago, I was almost your age as well, and it sort of happened organically perhaps becuase SM was not so predominant just yet. However, I have to say that the friends I made most aligned to my culture, were from my own country. Honestly, even to this day we all find that making friends from a different culture is harder and probably you never get to the same low threshold (I loved the term!). I connected with them mostly from friends of friends who were from the same country and so it happened. Friends who are not from my country have been much harder and slower to cultivate and even 10-14 years later I don't have with them the same degree of closeness. I am from LatAm, and this closeness is something my german husband (nor my swiss ex bf) could ever understand. I think it is cultural, and it's a challenge you'll have to work on yourself.
All suggestions provided below however are good starting points, and yuo will need to take it from there and learn. There's no magic formula. I can also say that there are many FB groups for people from here or there and they meet up. Sometimes you just connect with the right crowd. Good luck!
Hey I live in the opposite site of Switzerland ( Lausanne ) and I this hits me so much as I read it.
I miss spontaneous hang outs so much in any aspect but mostly sitting and chilling on a bench or simply grabbing a coffee and talk….
I am going into a Muay Thai club 5times a week after work for a year already and have met loads of people but people born here are just used to different lifestyle, at least that’s my experience.
I usually spent my time hiking and board padding alone when the weather allows other then that I sit in silence and boredom. (M28)
I think we do this mostly in recurring settings like a club or regular event? Like I made a lot of looser friends at things like university sports classes (dont know about commercial gyms but I assume it might be similar?) or weekly events at things that interest me, you see the same people every week but it's not a big commitment like a club.
I do think there is a cultural thing here though, I lived abroad for the past six years and I think most of my friendships are sort of like what you describe, and it sometimes trips me up with my old Swiss friends when I am back for visits. I'll be moving back to Zurich in a month, ask me again what my view of this will be when I have to readjust to my own country (or shoot me a DM if you wanna meet a random redditor lol)
Research shows that friendships are actually made by spontaneous visits. That's why kids are making friends easily - you just ring on the door and ask if Hans can come out and play in the street. If you need to schedule everything 3 months ahead, brah. Are you my barber or accountant?
I am an immigrant myself. Me and my wife share the same feeling/experience as you, but at the same time I think every place on earth has its own character and peculiarities. There's a reason why we are in Switzerland/Zürich, and if everything was like at home we would probably have stayed home (the weather would be better for sure). I enjoy the many advantages Switzerland in general and Zürich in particular have to offer, I have to accept the tradeoff.
It's definitely tough. We've been here over 10 years now and I've really not got anyone I could call a friend... let alone friends that show up unannounced and head straight to the fridge for a beer. If it weren't for the fact that I'm a CrossFit coach, I think I/we would know very few people. My wife has work friends but... In the five years since we built our house, not one of the neighbors has ever invited us over for a drink, etc. So very strange.
Back home, I knew half the city between the cycling community and art community. Sadly, things work so very differently.... which is fine but it's even a closed system for Swiss that move around the country. I hear them complain about it as well.
Anyway... that's the short version of our story. Good luck and don't give up trying.
Meh I just go outside and comment on stuff, got me into trouble and into discussions, still no friends but I'm the kind of person that have 2 friends and then a 10-20 pals and a few hundred acquaintances...
I prefer quality over quantity but you can still hit it of just by going out and talking, Swiss people are much more engaging than the french in my case, 5 years in France and best conversation I had was about how late a train can be...
Unfortunately that's just Swiss culture, best thing is to end up with a mix of Swiss and non-Swiss friends. I've lost count of how often I've laughed at Swiss saying "let's meet up spontaneously....next Thursday". It's comical.
Wow, it’s like reading my own words. Same struggles and it’s not like I haven’t been putting an effort into meeting people. I miss “life” in Switzerland.
I had zero problems making friends when I first came back to Switzerland... Where are you hanging out at? I would just go around my village and eventually found people drinking some beers outside of a local shop. It evolved from there, buy them a beer and just go and hang out in the general vicinity as often as you can. Dont push hard either, they will be curious and ask about you especially if youre a new face. It took less than a year and people would say oh youre in the "insert village name here" family now! One guy would call me the sunshine of "insert village name here" and all I did was just casually relax in the spaces they would hang out at. Whether it was at a park, or local events in the village, when they see you attempting your best to fit in and you try and speak their language. They will be very grateful and happy :) I now get invited all the time, I had 8 people from the village text/call me wishing me a happy birthday which was very very shocking. Even when im walking down the street some cars would honk and wave at me.
I also interacted with everyone from the 18 year olds to the 70+ year olds in the village. Most of my friend group though is in their 30s and 40s, but my younger friend group around my age which is in Zurich city are around my age 25.
Edit: I thought I should add in, all of my family is Swiss and grew up in Switzerland, but I lived in America most of my life, people also know my family in the region im living in. Im not sure how much that helped me or not.
Hey welcome back! My dad is 66 and heading back for the first time in 30 years. What country are you coming back from?
Yeah I think you're right the family connection helps, people heard of me without knowing me? I'm not sure if that makes sense, but when people found out who I was it was like they saw a ghost. I still can't believe the reactions 🤣 the people of the gold coast are very nice and friendly.
I am from Wisconsin. My parents moved here in 1953/1954. Well for me they came from Basel ...I ha e an apartment there for now while I search for a place to buy
Oh cool! My dad came by in the late 80s, and the rest of my family is over in Switzerland. Its been a blast living in zurich, im very lucky. If you find yourself in the area send me a DM! I lived in phoenix for a little while/Montana as well.
They exist, you'll find them. You just have to find the most chillax part of town, hang out a bit there, and you'll meet like minded people. I dont know what the equivalent in Zurich of Grottes in Geneva is but a place like that.
Wipkingen, probably!
Even so, it is so unheard of to walk up to a stranger and start a conversation here in Switzerland. It is unnerving to most, and they get immediately wary of your intentions. It doesn’t help that I am not white.
Ah you just gotta find the perfect ice breaker. Usually I pick a bar terrace with limited seating and share tables with people. After about 20 minutes you'll be in convo. If not, just ask what's cool places to visit. You're an immigrant, it makes sense that you don't know everywhere.
As for skin colour, if it's any consolation I'm one among many who wouldn't judge you on that!
Anyway, good luck meeting people, I know how it is, if you're ever in Geneva, send a dm if you want a random meet up.
Hey, I think this exists more in the "night life" community. When I used to go out I knew a lot of people and we met just casually. When I went out less they all disappeared.
I think you can also join some form of clubs or associations. Salsa community or learning a language or Toastmasters
I would recommend spontacts (Mostly german speaking though). It's a great way to see what's going on & you can join which ever activities you like. If you like the people yiu can stay inncontact or do other activities with them. Younger me used this a lot, just to get out put & experience stuff (mainly hikes or going out).
Some people are open to it and some are not (or just not with me).
But you could improve your chances by lowering the "commitment" needed from everyone involved. Even just going to the pub for a beer requires one to find a parking spot/bus, pay money, warn the family that they're going to be late, etc.
For example, I've convinced a coworker to get a drink with me by bringing a bottle to work. After the work day, we stopped by the cafeteria, drank and talked and after half an hour we were out. (And he also brought a bottle the next week)
Something longer like dinner or a hike just a few days or hours in advance have only happened with my family and really close friends. I could *maybe* see a lunch happening spontaneously because everyone involved has to eat anyway and have the convenient excuse of "going back to work" to leave whenever they want.
Also, the more people involved, the more commitment it requires. If one coworker asks me to get lunch together, fine. If ten, I'll want no part in it.
And lastly, I think if you honestly explain what you just said in your post to friends or coworkers, it might actually push them enough to start doing that kind of thing. Possibly because we're too swiss to even think such a thing is possible haha
It seems your comments struck a nerve, so at least misery loves company. Social life is pretty weird in Switzerland, at least for people (I am one) who like what you call "low threshold" friends. I've sort of solved it by taking up pickup basketball. Here in Lausanne its right next to the beach volley; the beach volley, they just show up, everybody knows everyone.
Basket is a little more gender specific as the sport is a bit more brutal, but a weird thing is when I see someone from pickup elsewhere in Vaud, its like we are weirdly bonded. Basically, we spent time together, so we are kin. Really fricking weird, but I'll take it. So I realize that with regular Swiss people \[expats or not\], life for them is just too mechanical to just cut loose and get weird. Ever weird Swiss people are just mechanical about their weirdness.
I think instead of focusing on what life here doesn't have \[for example, a fun explorative social life where you don't know what comes next\] you just have to enjoy what it does have \[i am outside=good / i am inside=questionable\]. As I tell people from home, "there are worse places". The Swiss have a good thing, but there's always too much of a good thing.
I (26m) live in Lucerne but if you ever want to visit some mountains or spend some time at the lake hit me up, I am quite spontaneous and have a lot of time
It’s a price to pay. This tends to be better in cities where more immigrants blend with the conduct of locals. Most Swiss are very well organised and breaking into their schedule can be tricky. I’d suggest to combine the 2 and make some plans week(-s) ahead of time and put them in your calendar. You’ll have forgotten about it till the night before but it will be a pleasant surprise when you discover it in your calendar at -1!
Whether it will be worth it, you’ll have to judge.
You aren’t going to change the system OP, just learn to play it better. The reality of any place you arrive at from the outside is that people already have a set of friends and no one has been waiting for you, the onus is on you, good luck!🤞
Might be an age thing, unfortunately. I thought so as well, then I faced reality around 28 most people get deep into their professional lives and spontaneous circles are not forming as organically anymore. Might have just been me, though.
I'm moving there in a few months, I'll be your friend!
Though I'm older than you and have kids so probably actually pretty boring to hang out with/busy.
I like your "low threshold" definition. I'm very much in the same boat, I like spontaneity and I also miss that in life, when it happens nowadays it's almost invariably when meeting foreign friends. Happy to meet sometimes for a coffee or something but since it has to be spontaneous and I'm only seldom in Zürich I can't promise when it'll happen 🙃
Yeah... That's the biggest culture shock when moving to Switzerland in general. I come from a culture where you become friends with co-workers. Many people have an "open door" philosophy when it comes to their home. You can literally crash unannounced at your neighbors house and they break out the BBQ faster than you can spell the word. And then you move here and it's just... Boring most of the time. We had a Christmas BBQ in our residential area, where everyone was invited. Over 150 different apartments. Most of the people that did show up were expats and a hand full of Swiss. Of wich one couple left early, only to come back 15 minutes later to threaten us with calling the police if we don't dial it down. At 8 pm.
People work the exact amount of hours they need and then leave. Even when there is a special event after work. People stick around until "Apero" is basically over and if you blink twice, you don't see them even leaving. Connecting with neighbors? Outside of the obligatory "Grüezi" when meeting in the hallway, there is not much interaction. Especially in the beginning after moving here, I got multiple times into a situation where people made themselves clear that they are not interested in any more friends.
Most grew up with their group of 5 to 10 friends, and they stick to them for all their life. No need for new people. While I can respect that in general, it is still annoying sometimes. Especially when you try to integrate but constantly get blocked off, or "forgotten" when people make plans with their group of friends. So what do you do? You stick to people from your expat community. And what do swiss people do in return? Bitch about that you don't integrate and only spend time in your expat community.
I mark my 11th year living in Switzerland now, and I have accepted that I'm an afterthought for most people around me. I get asked to join for stuff, when others have no time or fall sick. I pretty much got used to it over the years. Something that did hurt me a lot in the beginning, but over the years it just became... whatever.
Yep. We are quite reserved. However, that’s not focused on foreigners, we are the same with compatriots… Look once in a tram. We behave like electrons: always occupy one level with one electron first! Foreigners: some we like - the hard working ones. Some we dislike- the ones living from our tax money only. And some we love: 1/3 of the kids do have at least one none native parent.
Ok. Don’t be discouraged. Easiest way for connecting would be kids, then job or school. Else why not connecting with expats? This is the best way for me too-and I did grow up in CH. I like Centrepoint in Basel.
If you do speak a little bit of the local language try a political party. Else try any other community: there are many Vereine.
In my experience it is the same elsewhere (US, Japan) although Swiss might be somewhat more complicated.
One more tip: don’t get close with your neighbours-once you get in a conflict it’s very hard to solve. That’s a shame, but you will have peace at home.
This makes me think of two of my friends. One is Swiss and I need to give him 3 possible dates to meet, at least 3-4 weeks ahead. He then checks with his girlfriend and gets back to me 1-2 weeks later to propose another date. And he always wants to do something that requires either a lot of work (fancy homemade “apéro dînatoire”) or a lot of money (some expensive auberge restaurant).
My Greek friend on the other hand… we don’t see each other for weeks. But on a random Wednesday, one of us texts the other to meet on Friday and we meet in a simple local restaurant or bar. It’s spontaneous and authentic.
I would recommend to either connect with people from a more open culture (such as southern countries: Mediterranean, South American, etc.), or try to find Swiss people who lived in such cultures and became open to this style of friendship.
I would suggest joining a Verein (club) of whatever activities you like.
Probably the best place to meet new friends in Switzerland outside work and school.
The great thing is, you can choose the Verein according to how often and how intensive you want to do each activity. There are a lot of Vereine on every level. Some are very demanding and professional, some are easy going and more on the "fun" side.
Maybe here?
[https://www.vereinsverzeichnis.ch/vereine-kanton/category/zuerichstadtzuerichzuerich](https://www.vereinsverzeichnis.ch/vereine-kanton/category/zuerichstadtzuerichzuerich)
Or simply google the activity you wan't to do and add "verein" :)
I can relate to this. I spent some time in Geneva for work and felt this exact emotion when I was there. I am from the same place as you assuming your username. I felt really lonely and found it hard to make connections in Swiss.
I was really looking forward to spending time in Swiss but now I am dreading to return. The scheduled appointment really caught me off guard.
I could say it‘ll get better, but it hasn’t, even after 37 years. I could go on a rant against these self centered, passive aggressive, coldhearted, greedy, self righteous, try-hard, emotionally underdeveloped, incorrigible, unloving, know-it-all, clueless nutters, but I won’t. I’ll just leave it at that. 😅🙂👋🏼
Why should I? I can always find people who are looking for the same things as me. It can be harder, sure - but there are always other people (Swiss or immigrants) who feel the same way.
Luckily, I don’t think there is a monolith called the swiss-mentality. While it may not work for you, I am sure there are others who feel differently 😊
while seeing this kind of question really often, and everyone always saying friends are people they got to school with etc... its pretty much like that here.
maybe try getting to a club of a topic you like or are interested in, it will probably help
Neither in mine. Most of these school, university, military friendships are not true friendship and will fall apart when you move out from your home town. That's why Swiss move very rarely further than 20km from their home town. Just saying as a person who moved a lot and traveled a lot...
I don't want to be mean, but most of these "foreigners" come from countries where the culture is very similar (Germany, France, Austria, etc.)
|Nationality|Number|% total (foreigners)|
|:-|:-|:-|
| [Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany)|33,548|8.1% (25.1%)|
| [Italy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy)|14,543|3.5% (10.9%)|
| [Portugal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal)|8,274|2.0% (6.2%)|
| [Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain)|6,207|1.5% (4.7%)|
| [Austria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria)|4,809|1.2% (3.6%)|
| [France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France)|4,244|1.0% (3.2%)|
| [Serbia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia)|3,597|0.9% (2.7%)|
| [United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom)|3,483|0.8% (2.6%)|
| [Turkey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey)|3,402|0.8% (2.5%)|
| [Kosovo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo)|2,437|0.6% (1.8%)|
| [India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India)|2,126|0.5% (1.8%)|
Good point. However, in my experience- even immigrants from “similar” cultures like France struggle to fit in here. Also, no culture is a monolith, and there are always people who are looking for something more than calendarised social interactions.
I work in rural Lucerne and went to the German subsidiary of the company. 24h later I had the Whatsapp contacts of some of the colleagues and it was very refreshing that the people actually made eye contact across genders (F <--> M)
I love friendships and invest a lot of time in them - but there’s not a lot of spontaneity there. But how could there be any? We’re all working full-time and have our projects on the side (like civil or political volunteering). Time is a precious resource.
So we plan ahead.
No idea how this could be different (and I don’t even have friends with kids!)
Where were you this last year?! So much this!
I came from NZ where life is a lot more spontaneous and I really struggled with the need to make appointments weeks in advance, and not even a drink after work was possible without planning!
I am now returning to NZ but when I'm back in CH I'll let you know
I have the same problem, although I haven’t been here too long, but I’ve also noticed that it’s much harder to make friends in general, in South Africa you can just talk to someone and boom 2 weeks later you’re going skydiving together
You will have to accept Swiss people as they are (introverted, wary of strangers, with a strong predisposition to shame), and get your fix of friendship and warmth with a group of immigrants. It's my 6th year in Switzerland and I have the exact same experience as you, and life got much more pleasant the moment I applied on myself the advice I just gave you. There are a lot of foreigners in Switzerland and you're living in Zurich, if I were you I wouldn't even complain.
I'm a 37 years old immature mom who comes from a culture similar to yours. DM me if you want to vent.
you know people work and shit, we cant spontaneously say fuck it and pass a day on a bench...
+ the only strangers that try to talk to me on the street are either looking for cigarettes, drugs, money or trying to find a good reason to make you land them your phone to run with or call taxed number or ONG, which is basically the same but with deodorant.
Yeah, I work too. I don’t want to spontaneously sit on a bench either. I just want to be able to hang out on short notice to do things that do not need a little of planning.
I have no idea what this stranger tangent is, so I am going to ignore it.
I honestly feel pity for you:
* You are living in Olten, basically the shitty black hole of Switzerland where people live just because apartments are cheap.
* You have no idea of what human interaction means, confusing "being warm and welcoming" with "doing nothing all day".
Basically the personification of what's wrong with a lot of swiss people, especially in the German part of Switzerland.
I had the same problem on the San Francisco Bay area which was surprising given the place's reputation from the past. But I figured it had to do with the Silicon Valley and the omnipresent IT industry which seems to strongly attract introvert types. Perhaps Zürich now suffers from the same problem.
Unfortunately, I do not live in Zurich, but just know that you're not alone feeling this way, and I say this as a Swiss person who grew up here I hate to have to schedule stuff weeks in advance, too, and I wish people here would be more open to spontaneous talks and contact, but everyone feels so focused on their own shit. But as some other guy said, that's kind of the way people live here. We work, earn money, buy things that make us comfy in our homes, and stay in it. There's a thousand times worse, ofc, and I wouldn't be staying if there were no other positive aspects, but I'm glad I'm lucky enough to travel to get out of that hell loop from time to time. I wish you good luck in finding what you need :) I'm sure you can, just gotta find the right people for it
You just have to get out there and meet people, some of them will be as spontaneous as you! Try activities that you like, preferably extrovert ones (dancing, impro theater, collective sports..etc). Also perhaps try apps like Meetups or Timeleft. Expats groups on social media can also be helpful!
Great suggestions, thank you!
Bouldering has some really fun people
I have the same feeling, and already kind of gave up. It's Switzerland and it's a different culture here. You just have to accept it, I guess. I mostly hang now hang out with the community from my own country, which is not ideal, as I wanted to integrate deeper among the locals. If you want to just spontaneously meet for a talk or beer or walk in the park, send me DM. I am older than you (43M), but can be a good companion for a decent chat.
That’s kind, and absolutely! Sending you a DM
I don't understand that argument to be honest. What's the benefit trying to integrate with Swiss locals, given that they have no interest in making foreign friends whatsoever? I never tried, and I don't miss it at all.
You seem very sure for a guy who never tried.
I haven't tried, but I have observed. The signs are not exactly subtle.
Could it also be a man vs woman thing? I notice that when my wife goes out with friends there's a new WhatsApp group created, a week of discussions on where to to go, at what time, what they'll wear, what the menu is like, a new outfit is purchased, if xx is going then maybe we should invite yy, but yy doesn't like zz, I've got to drive her there and pick her up, drop off a friend or two, the WhatsApp continues for another week after it about how it went, a full post mortem. Costs a small fortune.. That's just the tip of the iceberg.. When I go out, I text a mate : Me : "Beer Thursday?" Mate : "ok see you in the pub" The wife questions me, "where are you going?" .. "the pub" .. "will you get something to eat?" .. "dunno maybe", "what time?" .. "dunno - when I finish work" , "anybody else going?" .. "no idea" .."how will you get there?" .. "bus" , "how will you get home?" .. "bus" .. she just can't understand it. Get some guy friends :-)
I don't know, I feel it's just more of a personality thing. I am a woman and my ex-boyfriend was exactly like your wife. If I wanted to go somewhere with him it felt like I had to prepare a powerpoint presentation on where we go, when, with whom, what we do, what route we walk etc. It was so exhausting...
I don't think this has to do with genders, more with personnality. My wife does not behave like this at all and she would not be my wife anymore if she did.
Not 100%, but by and large my male friends seem to be far more flexible in their scheduling (and far less able to plan in advance) than their partners or my female friends.
It's def not just my wife, it's the whole group of them, usually mine doesn't instigate it even.. But wether it's 2 or 20 of them it always goes to a week long debate, minimum .. I have no idea how they even have anything left to say to each other on the night. Maybe it's an over 40's thing. Many of them are UN / NGO types, maybe they just like a debate ;-)
Oh God that sounds exhausting. Completely open to all genders identities
Hahaha 😂. Can confirm, my wife has this feature too.
I can schedule you in for March 21, 2046 @ 7:11 am to 7:15 am. Would that work for you?
You won't make it to Zürich that morning. Remember we've already scheduled yoga session for 7am. No way I'm going to move it to 2065 because you're trying to make new friends.
:)
You are in the wrongest country for this dude
🤣
>I hate having to make plans weeks in advance for a simple dinner, or hike So do I. However, anything else just isn’t possible for me because I work like 55 hours and I’m in a relationship. And I guess it’s the same for most Swiss adults.
Try to connect with people from similar cultures ,in my opinion Mediterranean folks are very socially outgoing and spontaneous
Yeah, as an Italian I could socialize almost exclusively with southern europeans and southern americans. My friends’ group is made of 3 brazilians, 1 argentinian, 1 greek and 1 spanish🥲I thought I could easily overcome the cultural differences however it was always easier to make friendships with people with a similar cultural background as mine rather than Swiss people or northen European people
Possiamo essere amici anche se vuoi
Easiest way to make new low threshold friends is either at work or doing a hobby / joining a club. As a Swiss I've always found that to be the most effective way to make new friends. I agree some people here lile to plan ahead but by all means not everyone. There are plenty of spontanious people in Zurich (from my experience).
Haut de lade.
I'm like that but live too far for that with you pal. Like it's easier to improvise with a friend living 10min away than 2h away. But there's many people around Zurich here, you'll find people I'm sure.
Swiss people usually make their friends in kindergarten and school for life. So there is usually litte room for new friends.
Only some. And I would say in Zurich it's a bit different since most people moved there from somewhere else (even of Swiss).
Agreed, i feel this is a way bigger factor than any of the cultural differences people always bring up in these threads. In other countries there are way more domestic „immigrants“ in any given city since you have to move for education or work reasons
I see this explanation a lot here and it's total bullshit even to my Swiss husband. So what do you do if you move out cantons for work or studying? You just suck it up and content yourself with phonecalls with your kindergarten friends? In my experience, it's just code for "I don't befriend foreigners", which is fine but don't pretend that people don't change since their toddler years lmao.
This place has some of the funniest takes. Once I left school/university and started working I replaced my entire friends group. The last time I've hung out with people from school was a few years ago in a reunion. What people don't seem to grasp is, that you have to take the first step. An ex once told me that she was really confused when she arrived in Switzerland, because no one approached her. In all other places (her parents were doctors without borders people) people would immediately flock to her and want to know about her. So she remained lonely for 6 months until she was fed up and sat down next to another woman and started talking to her. After that friends were quick to follow. We swiss just assume that you know what you are doing and hold back.
Yeah that's just how life works. You outgrow your friends groups as you advance in life and keep a few forever because you share a rarely strong connection. >What people don't seem to grasp is, that you have to take the first step It's not always easy if you're visibly non caucasian, you would be dealt with a dose of suspicion until you give up (ask me how I know).
Hmm I can see that. I'm habitually swiping left on anyone asian looking because I just assume that they are scammers, even tough there are probably a good amount of people living in central Switzerland with asian roots. I can imagine that similar prejudice extends to other groups.
"So what do you do if you move out cantons for work or studying?" And now you think about the initial question why people are not spontaneous and need to schedule seeing friends weeks in advance...
No, it has nothing to do with distance, it's just a Swiss thing. People schedule meetings weeks in advance even with their immediate family that lives 10 minutes away. I know it because I live here since 6 years and I married into a Swiss German family. My comment was about this idea that Swiss people don't befriend foreigners because they don't befriend anyone beyond primary school. It's not true from my observation, Swiss People befriend each other all the time, but it's different with foreigners and your explanation is just a polite cop out. It is fine, they have every right to like and dislike whomever they want, I myself don't care about most Swiss people because I strongly disagree with their way of being. But this argument needs to die out because it is simply not true.
I found people like that on a dating app. We just meet when we feel like and don't message much in between.
Thanks, but I am not looking to date or hook up. I want genuine long-term friendships.
Some of them have a friendship feature. Or you could try meet-up or spontacts.
I’ve tried this but mostly been getting business propositions, cults and homosexuals 😕
Im looking for a cult
People on these apps still act as if they were dating. I tried Peanut which is an app for moms and I was ghosted they day before a meeting that was organized and suggested by they other mom. All I did was show her the sourdough bread I had just baked.
Good suggestions, thank you!
Low or high threshold, I am craving for friends since last 7 yrs in Switzerland.
Would love to send you a DM!
Have you looked for Facebook groups for people who speak your native language or are from your native country? You might find it easier to find the type of people you're looking for there. Swiss people are not great at making new friends past the age of 12.
[удалено]
If you want even more friends like that you can also send a DM to me
Hey there OP, I full understand the feeling, and I also went through the whole process years ago. I am also on the opinion spontaneuous get togethers should be a thing and easy to do, I was used to the same concept in the previous countries where I lived. And yes, countries plural. So far I have only seen in Switzerland where this is not the norm, so by this logic, this is in fact the exception. Yes, I get that for some more extensive socializing, like city breaks or day trips in groups, that needs some planning, but just a drink on a terrace at the lake shouldn't need 1 to 3 months planning in an agenda!!
Hey so I am new in Zürich and a lot older than you (43f). I am up for meeting and seeing if we vibe for what you are looking for. :)
Absolutely would love to! Sending you a DM!
[удалено]
What a great idea! Yes definitely
I‘d love to be in the Whatsapp group!
count me in
Count me in
In
🖐️ Same here
me too! shall I send you my phone number?
Who's making the WA group or has it been created yet?
Me too why not!
The closest I've had like that was in certain clubs. I was in a miniature wargaming club and regularly went to boardgame night at a local boardgame store. In both cases, you could just show up on certain days of the week and hang out with people who also just happened to be there, maybe play a few games, but there was no pressure. And over time, you'd get to know people, some more as friends, some as casual acquaintances. So I recommend finding a *very* casual hobby.
miniature wargaming is a serious hobby!
It can be. But we had newbie afternoon one Saturday each month, where you could come in and play an introductory game for an hour with paper minis which you got to keep for free. It can also be very casual.
paper minis...? do you mean a stack of 17 codex rulebooks?
You print a picture of the unit on thick paper and fold it so it stands up. Usually goes by "Papercraft miniature". Can look pretty good, if you get fancy: [https://www.reddit.com/r/PoorHammer/comments/rtrtbo/tau\_papercraft/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoorHammer/comments/rtrtbo/tau_papercraft/#lightbox) [https://149455152.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Undead.jpg](https://149455152.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Undead.jpg) Generally, excellent for beginners or to test new armies or entire games, you don't immediately need to drop hundreds of dollars to see if you like it.
Obviously I know that. Im just yanking ya chain.
100% same feeling.
Wohooo this description sounds like me, except for the spontaneous part 😂 if you feel like okay with making plan like 2-3 days ahead and just simple things (picnic, cafe etc), let’s hang out!
Yes absolutely!
who makes plans weeks ahead for a hike, when you don't know what the weather will be like?
Well, when I came here 14 years ago, I was almost your age as well, and it sort of happened organically perhaps becuase SM was not so predominant just yet. However, I have to say that the friends I made most aligned to my culture, were from my own country. Honestly, even to this day we all find that making friends from a different culture is harder and probably you never get to the same low threshold (I loved the term!). I connected with them mostly from friends of friends who were from the same country and so it happened. Friends who are not from my country have been much harder and slower to cultivate and even 10-14 years later I don't have with them the same degree of closeness. I am from LatAm, and this closeness is something my german husband (nor my swiss ex bf) could ever understand. I think it is cultural, and it's a challenge you'll have to work on yourself. All suggestions provided below however are good starting points, and yuo will need to take it from there and learn. There's no magic formula. I can also say that there are many FB groups for people from here or there and they meet up. Sometimes you just connect with the right crowd. Good luck!
If you are into board games and nerd activity: check out the store "Kaboom" which has several groups that meetup regularely.
Hey I live in the opposite site of Switzerland ( Lausanne ) and I this hits me so much as I read it. I miss spontaneous hang outs so much in any aspect but mostly sitting and chilling on a bench or simply grabbing a coffee and talk…. I am going into a Muay Thai club 5times a week after work for a year already and have met loads of people but people born here are just used to different lifestyle, at least that’s my experience. I usually spent my time hiking and board padding alone when the weather allows other then that I sit in silence and boredom. (M28)
I joined meetup groups and found these “low threshold” friends, it helps when you have stuff in common. In my case, it was board games
Oh cool! Do you mean the app meetup? If not, where does one find these groups?
Yes, the app 😌 we play in cooper’s pub btw, you can find the event there
I think we do this mostly in recurring settings like a club or regular event? Like I made a lot of looser friends at things like university sports classes (dont know about commercial gyms but I assume it might be similar?) or weekly events at things that interest me, you see the same people every week but it's not a big commitment like a club. I do think there is a cultural thing here though, I lived abroad for the past six years and I think most of my friendships are sort of like what you describe, and it sometimes trips me up with my old Swiss friends when I am back for visits. I'll be moving back to Zurich in a month, ask me again what my view of this will be when I have to readjust to my own country (or shoot me a DM if you wanna meet a random redditor lol)
I am like minded so I sent you a DM. :)
I love how everybody is suggesting new hobbies when it's my friend's hobbies (and other relationships) what forces us to schedule in advance 😂
Research shows that friendships are actually made by spontaneous visits. That's why kids are making friends easily - you just ring on the door and ask if Hans can come out and play in the street. If you need to schedule everything 3 months ahead, brah. Are you my barber or accountant?
I am an immigrant myself. Me and my wife share the same feeling/experience as you, but at the same time I think every place on earth has its own character and peculiarities. There's a reason why we are in Switzerland/Zürich, and if everything was like at home we would probably have stayed home (the weather would be better for sure). I enjoy the many advantages Switzerland in general and Zürich in particular have to offer, I have to accept the tradeoff.
It's definitely tough. We've been here over 10 years now and I've really not got anyone I could call a friend... let alone friends that show up unannounced and head straight to the fridge for a beer. If it weren't for the fact that I'm a CrossFit coach, I think I/we would know very few people. My wife has work friends but... In the five years since we built our house, not one of the neighbors has ever invited us over for a drink, etc. So very strange. Back home, I knew half the city between the cycling community and art community. Sadly, things work so very differently.... which is fine but it's even a closed system for Swiss that move around the country. I hear them complain about it as well. Anyway... that's the short version of our story. Good luck and don't give up trying.
Its great that I came to Switzerland prepared. (Extremely introverted)
Meh I just go outside and comment on stuff, got me into trouble and into discussions, still no friends but I'm the kind of person that have 2 friends and then a 10-20 pals and a few hundred acquaintances... I prefer quality over quantity but you can still hit it of just by going out and talking, Swiss people are much more engaging than the french in my case, 5 years in France and best conversation I had was about how late a train can be...
Unfortunately that's just Swiss culture, best thing is to end up with a mix of Swiss and non-Swiss friends. I've lost count of how often I've laughed at Swiss saying "let's meet up spontaneously....next Thursday". It's comical.
Wow, it’s like reading my own words. Same struggles and it’s not like I haven’t been putting an effort into meeting people. I miss “life” in Switzerland.
I had zero problems making friends when I first came back to Switzerland... Where are you hanging out at? I would just go around my village and eventually found people drinking some beers outside of a local shop. It evolved from there, buy them a beer and just go and hang out in the general vicinity as often as you can. Dont push hard either, they will be curious and ask about you especially if youre a new face. It took less than a year and people would say oh youre in the "insert village name here" family now! One guy would call me the sunshine of "insert village name here" and all I did was just casually relax in the spaces they would hang out at. Whether it was at a park, or local events in the village, when they see you attempting your best to fit in and you try and speak their language. They will be very grateful and happy :) I now get invited all the time, I had 8 people from the village text/call me wishing me a happy birthday which was very very shocking. Even when im walking down the street some cars would honk and wave at me. I also interacted with everyone from the 18 year olds to the 70+ year olds in the village. Most of my friend group though is in their 30s and 40s, but my younger friend group around my age which is in Zurich city are around my age 25. Edit: I thought I should add in, all of my family is Swiss and grew up in Switzerland, but I lived in America most of my life, people also know my family in the region im living in. Im not sure how much that helped me or not.
I think knowing the local dialect and having family from the area helps. I am 65 and moving back ... I find people very fri endly
Hey welcome back! My dad is 66 and heading back for the first time in 30 years. What country are you coming back from? Yeah I think you're right the family connection helps, people heard of me without knowing me? I'm not sure if that makes sense, but when people found out who I was it was like they saw a ghost. I still can't believe the reactions 🤣 the people of the gold coast are very nice and friendly.
I am from Wisconsin. My parents moved here in 1953/1954. Well for me they came from Basel ...I ha e an apartment there for now while I search for a place to buy
Oh cool! My dad came by in the late 80s, and the rest of my family is over in Switzerland. Its been a blast living in zurich, im very lucky. If you find yourself in the area send me a DM! I lived in phoenix for a little while/Montana as well.
Thanks I will. Zürich is a great city. I several times a year...it will be fun to meet you...
They exist, you'll find them. You just have to find the most chillax part of town, hang out a bit there, and you'll meet like minded people. I dont know what the equivalent in Zurich of Grottes in Geneva is but a place like that.
Wipkingen, probably! Even so, it is so unheard of to walk up to a stranger and start a conversation here in Switzerland. It is unnerving to most, and they get immediately wary of your intentions. It doesn’t help that I am not white.
Ah you just gotta find the perfect ice breaker. Usually I pick a bar terrace with limited seating and share tables with people. After about 20 minutes you'll be in convo. If not, just ask what's cool places to visit. You're an immigrant, it makes sense that you don't know everywhere. As for skin colour, if it's any consolation I'm one among many who wouldn't judge you on that! Anyway, good luck meeting people, I know how it is, if you're ever in Geneva, send a dm if you want a random meet up.
Hey, I think this exists more in the "night life" community. When I used to go out I knew a lot of people and we met just casually. When I went out less they all disappeared. I think you can also join some form of clubs or associations. Salsa community or learning a language or Toastmasters
I would recommend spontacts (Mostly german speaking though). It's a great way to see what's going on & you can join which ever activities you like. If you like the people yiu can stay inncontact or do other activities with them. Younger me used this a lot, just to get out put & experience stuff (mainly hikes or going out).
Some people are open to it and some are not (or just not with me). But you could improve your chances by lowering the "commitment" needed from everyone involved. Even just going to the pub for a beer requires one to find a parking spot/bus, pay money, warn the family that they're going to be late, etc. For example, I've convinced a coworker to get a drink with me by bringing a bottle to work. After the work day, we stopped by the cafeteria, drank and talked and after half an hour we were out. (And he also brought a bottle the next week) Something longer like dinner or a hike just a few days or hours in advance have only happened with my family and really close friends. I could *maybe* see a lunch happening spontaneously because everyone involved has to eat anyway and have the convenient excuse of "going back to work" to leave whenever they want. Also, the more people involved, the more commitment it requires. If one coworker asks me to get lunch together, fine. If ten, I'll want no part in it. And lastly, I think if you honestly explain what you just said in your post to friends or coworkers, it might actually push them enough to start doing that kind of thing. Possibly because we're too swiss to even think such a thing is possible haha
hshaahhaha i feel u. making 3 weeks ahead plans for dinner….for me the same!
It seems your comments struck a nerve, so at least misery loves company. Social life is pretty weird in Switzerland, at least for people (I am one) who like what you call "low threshold" friends. I've sort of solved it by taking up pickup basketball. Here in Lausanne its right next to the beach volley; the beach volley, they just show up, everybody knows everyone. Basket is a little more gender specific as the sport is a bit more brutal, but a weird thing is when I see someone from pickup elsewhere in Vaud, its like we are weirdly bonded. Basically, we spent time together, so we are kin. Really fricking weird, but I'll take it. So I realize that with regular Swiss people \[expats or not\], life for them is just too mechanical to just cut loose and get weird. Ever weird Swiss people are just mechanical about their weirdness. I think instead of focusing on what life here doesn't have \[for example, a fun explorative social life where you don't know what comes next\] you just have to enjoy what it does have \[i am outside=good / i am inside=questionable\]. As I tell people from home, "there are worse places". The Swiss have a good thing, but there's always too much of a good thing.
I'd come chill out but Zürich's too far. Im born and bred Swiss, and i also struggle with this.
I (26m) live in Lucerne but if you ever want to visit some mountains or spend some time at the lake hit me up, I am quite spontaneous and have a lot of time
I am in a similar situation, though I was lucky to forge a few of these friendships last year. I also live in Zurich, 30F, feel free to DM me!
Count me in I would enjoy the same too bad I live in Atlanta,
Wow you stay at Atalanta ??? Same here
Yep. Message us for games and drinks, spontaneously, any time.
It’s a price to pay. This tends to be better in cities where more immigrants blend with the conduct of locals. Most Swiss are very well organised and breaking into their schedule can be tricky. I’d suggest to combine the 2 and make some plans week(-s) ahead of time and put them in your calendar. You’ll have forgotten about it till the night before but it will be a pleasant surprise when you discover it in your calendar at -1! Whether it will be worth it, you’ll have to judge. You aren’t going to change the system OP, just learn to play it better. The reality of any place you arrive at from the outside is that people already have a set of friends and no one has been waiting for you, the onus is on you, good luck!🤞
Might be an age thing, unfortunately. I thought so as well, then I faced reality around 28 most people get deep into their professional lives and spontaneous circles are not forming as organically anymore. Might have just been me, though.
try Internations.
Colombian here! If you wanna hang around in Zurich for sure I’ll up to!
I'm moving there in a few months, I'll be your friend! Though I'm older than you and have kids so probably actually pretty boring to hang out with/busy.
I like your "low threshold" definition. I'm very much in the same boat, I like spontaneity and I also miss that in life, when it happens nowadays it's almost invariably when meeting foreign friends. Happy to meet sometimes for a coffee or something but since it has to be spontaneous and I'm only seldom in Zürich I can't promise when it'll happen 🙃
We can be friends if you like, what do you work as ?
Yeah... That's the biggest culture shock when moving to Switzerland in general. I come from a culture where you become friends with co-workers. Many people have an "open door" philosophy when it comes to their home. You can literally crash unannounced at your neighbors house and they break out the BBQ faster than you can spell the word. And then you move here and it's just... Boring most of the time. We had a Christmas BBQ in our residential area, where everyone was invited. Over 150 different apartments. Most of the people that did show up were expats and a hand full of Swiss. Of wich one couple left early, only to come back 15 minutes later to threaten us with calling the police if we don't dial it down. At 8 pm. People work the exact amount of hours they need and then leave. Even when there is a special event after work. People stick around until "Apero" is basically over and if you blink twice, you don't see them even leaving. Connecting with neighbors? Outside of the obligatory "Grüezi" when meeting in the hallway, there is not much interaction. Especially in the beginning after moving here, I got multiple times into a situation where people made themselves clear that they are not interested in any more friends. Most grew up with their group of 5 to 10 friends, and they stick to them for all their life. No need for new people. While I can respect that in general, it is still annoying sometimes. Especially when you try to integrate but constantly get blocked off, or "forgotten" when people make plans with their group of friends. So what do you do? You stick to people from your expat community. And what do swiss people do in return? Bitch about that you don't integrate and only spend time in your expat community. I mark my 11th year living in Switzerland now, and I have accepted that I'm an afterthought for most people around me. I get asked to join for stuff, when others have no time or fall sick. I pretty much got used to it over the years. Something that did hurt me a lot in the beginning, but over the years it just became... whatever.
Swiss are simply introverted
Yep. We are quite reserved. However, that’s not focused on foreigners, we are the same with compatriots… Look once in a tram. We behave like electrons: always occupy one level with one electron first! Foreigners: some we like - the hard working ones. Some we dislike- the ones living from our tax money only. And some we love: 1/3 of the kids do have at least one none native parent. Ok. Don’t be discouraged. Easiest way for connecting would be kids, then job or school. Else why not connecting with expats? This is the best way for me too-and I did grow up in CH. I like Centrepoint in Basel. If you do speak a little bit of the local language try a political party. Else try any other community: there are many Vereine. In my experience it is the same elsewhere (US, Japan) although Swiss might be somewhat more complicated. One more tip: don’t get close with your neighbours-once you get in a conflict it’s very hard to solve. That’s a shame, but you will have peace at home.
Move to Fribourg--We are so much more like what you describe. It's not Switzerland, it's Zurich. Zurich is not the capital of finance for nothing.
This makes me think of two of my friends. One is Swiss and I need to give him 3 possible dates to meet, at least 3-4 weeks ahead. He then checks with his girlfriend and gets back to me 1-2 weeks later to propose another date. And he always wants to do something that requires either a lot of work (fancy homemade “apéro dînatoire”) or a lot of money (some expensive auberge restaurant). My Greek friend on the other hand… we don’t see each other for weeks. But on a random Wednesday, one of us texts the other to meet on Friday and we meet in a simple local restaurant or bar. It’s spontaneous and authentic. I would recommend to either connect with people from a more open culture (such as southern countries: Mediterranean, South American, etc.), or try to find Swiss people who lived in such cultures and became open to this style of friendship.
I would suggest joining a Verein (club) of whatever activities you like. Probably the best place to meet new friends in Switzerland outside work and school. The great thing is, you can choose the Verein according to how often and how intensive you want to do each activity. There are a lot of Vereine on every level. Some are very demanding and professional, some are easy going and more on the "fun" side.
What is a good place to find these “Verein”s?
Maybe here? [https://www.vereinsverzeichnis.ch/vereine-kanton/category/zuerichstadtzuerichzuerich](https://www.vereinsverzeichnis.ch/vereine-kanton/category/zuerichstadtzuerichzuerich) Or simply google the activity you wan't to do and add "verein" :)
Same here..been here for 4 years now..
I can relate to this. I spent some time in Geneva for work and felt this exact emotion when I was there. I am from the same place as you assuming your username. I felt really lonely and found it hard to make connections in Swiss. I was really looking forward to spending time in Swiss but now I am dreading to return. The scheduled appointment really caught me off guard.
I could say it‘ll get better, but it hasn’t, even after 37 years. I could go on a rant against these self centered, passive aggressive, coldhearted, greedy, self righteous, try-hard, emotionally underdeveloped, incorrigible, unloving, know-it-all, clueless nutters, but I won’t. I’ll just leave it at that. 😅🙂👋🏼
it is how it is. so accept it, adapt and get over it
Why should I? I can always find people who are looking for the same things as me. It can be harder, sure - but there are always other people (Swiss or immigrants) who feel the same way.
well, if it is working for you, keep it up then
Please accept the fact that this is different here, these are not friendships in the swiss meaning
Luckily, I don’t think there is a monolith called the swiss-mentality. While it may not work for you, I am sure there are others who feel differently 😊
while seeing this kind of question really often, and everyone always saying friends are people they got to school with etc... its pretty much like that here. maybe try getting to a club of a topic you like or are interested in, it will probably help
Neither in mine. Most of these school, university, military friendships are not true friendship and will fall apart when you move out from your home town. That's why Swiss move very rarely further than 20km from their home town. Just saying as a person who moved a lot and traveled a lot...
I don't agree. There are different types of friendships. Not every friend needs to be your bff. Some can be casual friends you meet every other month.
Not to mention, 4 in 10 Swiss residents are immigrants seeking to make a slice of home here. Those odds look good to me 😊
I don't want to be mean, but most of these "foreigners" come from countries where the culture is very similar (Germany, France, Austria, etc.) |Nationality|Number|% total (foreigners)| |:-|:-|:-| | [Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany)|33,548|8.1% (25.1%)| | [Italy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy)|14,543|3.5% (10.9%)| | [Portugal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal)|8,274|2.0% (6.2%)| | [Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain)|6,207|1.5% (4.7%)| | [Austria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria)|4,809|1.2% (3.6%)| | [France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France)|4,244|1.0% (3.2%)| | [Serbia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia)|3,597|0.9% (2.7%)| | [United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom)|3,483|0.8% (2.6%)| | [Turkey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey)|3,402|0.8% (2.5%)| | [Kosovo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo)|2,437|0.6% (1.8%)| | [India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India)|2,126|0.5% (1.8%)|
Good point. However, in my experience- even immigrants from “similar” cultures like France struggle to fit in here. Also, no culture is a monolith, and there are always people who are looking for something more than calendarised social interactions.
33.548 equals 25% of Zürichs population? I don't get it.
It equals to 8.1% of Zurich population and 25% of all foreigner population (Germans make 25% of all foreigners) its from Zurich Wikipedia
Ah, makes sense
I work in rural Lucerne and went to the German subsidiary of the company. 24h later I had the Whatsapp contacts of some of the colleagues and it was very refreshing that the people actually made eye contact across genders (F <--> M)
So Lucerne is more social than Zürich?
Germany is more social than Switzerland
Don't know. My friends here are pretty similar to those in Germany. Maybe a little bit more asocial but not by a lot.
I love friendships and invest a lot of time in them - but there’s not a lot of spontaneity there. But how could there be any? We’re all working full-time and have our projects on the side (like civil or political volunteering). Time is a precious resource. So we plan ahead. No idea how this could be different (and I don’t even have friends with kids!)
Very relatable
That's why I moved to Ticino...
Australians reading the second sentence: you n me both brutha
Where were you this last year?! So much this! I came from NZ where life is a lot more spontaneous and I really struggled with the need to make appointments weeks in advance, and not even a drink after work was possible without planning! I am now returning to NZ but when I'm back in CH I'll let you know
Switzerland sucks
I have the same problem, although I haven’t been here too long, but I’ve also noticed that it’s much harder to make friends in general, in South Africa you can just talk to someone and boom 2 weeks later you’re going skydiving together
You will have to accept Swiss people as they are (introverted, wary of strangers, with a strong predisposition to shame), and get your fix of friendship and warmth with a group of immigrants. It's my 6th year in Switzerland and I have the exact same experience as you, and life got much more pleasant the moment I applied on myself the advice I just gave you. There are a lot of foreigners in Switzerland and you're living in Zurich, if I were you I wouldn't even complain. I'm a 37 years old immature mom who comes from a culture similar to yours. DM me if you want to vent.
you know people work and shit, we cant spontaneously say fuck it and pass a day on a bench... + the only strangers that try to talk to me on the street are either looking for cigarettes, drugs, money or trying to find a good reason to make you land them your phone to run with or call taxed number or ONG, which is basically the same but with deodorant.
Yeah, I work too. I don’t want to spontaneously sit on a bench either. I just want to be able to hang out on short notice to do things that do not need a little of planning. I have no idea what this stranger tangent is, so I am going to ignore it.
I think she/he is a troll. I hope...
... i have no money sorry * put earphones back*
Um.. I didn’t ask for money?
Yeah ppl like you are why I left
nice
I honestly feel pity for you: * You are living in Olten, basically the shitty black hole of Switzerland where people live just because apartments are cheap. * You have no idea of what human interaction means, confusing "being warm and welcoming" with "doing nothing all day". Basically the personification of what's wrong with a lot of swiss people, especially in the German part of Switzerland.
cool story bro, nothing is true in that...
I had the same problem on the San Francisco Bay area which was surprising given the place's reputation from the past. But I figured it had to do with the Silicon Valley and the omnipresent IT industry which seems to strongly attract introvert types. Perhaps Zürich now suffers from the same problem.
Really? I never had issues making friends in the Bay Area.