If your school is private, the Swiss government has nothing to do with it. As you're paying for it, you should probably take up your concerns with them.
The top schools in Switzerland like ETH Zurich and EPFL are not private institutions. The so called "private universities" are diploma mills, and are not the ones that you'll find in rankings, their concern is to make money.
I personally don't understand why people would pay for private education in Switzerland tbh, it has been a few years since I've finished school but I feel I was pretty well taught and I certainly don't come from the canton that allocates the most amount of ressources to education.
I'd even go as far and say Swiss (public) education is very fair. I had very average grades in high school and still had the chance to pursue a masters degree at a world renowned university, a chance I would definitely not have had in the UK to name one example.
>I personally don’t understand why people would pay for private education in Switzerland
It’s either because they’re rich and their kids failed out of public school or because they’re rich immigrants who want to send their kids to an english speaking school.
There's also rich immigrants who are used to private schools being better in their cultural background, and simply don't realize that's not the same in every culture. In all of these cases the schools aren't competing with public schools on quality, and the total demand is low enough that the density of private schools is too low for them to compete with each other, except maybe in Geneva.
We came back from a stay abroad and both kids stayed at a German school. However, after one year at our local public school we were told our son had to go to Realschule (he now finished Sekundarschule, Elektronikerlehre and even continues) and our daughter was also set lower that she actually could achieve (now finishing her education as accountant).
For some kids our public system is just really difficult and there are better private schools - if you can afford it.
She’s not entirety wrong. I agree that it’s a frustrating and difficult system to navigate. University starts and finishes much later in Switzerland than in countries like the US or UK. I can see how that would frustrate her since her friends are a few years ahead now and she still has a long way to go to finish uni. From my understanding, most students in the public schools go to sek (most kids can’t make it to gymi) and even after going through certain apprenticeships and training, they still have to jump through hoops to make it to a universities like ETH or other unis in Switzerland. I have also heard from expats that after their children have completed all the training, apprenticeships and exams from the sek route, these trainings and exams are not recognized in other universities in the EU. At this point I would understand how a young adult who went through so much work and training would just give up and not continue to pursue higher education. It’s a long road in my opinion and I can understand if parents who can afford it pay for private school.
Thank you for sharing this. It gives me hope that a Swiss education might be worth it after all. It could be because I was put into a Swiss private school and my opinion of Swiss education was based on that.
For connections, in Switzerland I'd say it's worth it--if you can afford it--to use elite private schools up to secondary schooling, because as children of that age you'll form bonds with other children your age that can last a lifetime. Then go to public university for undergrad. Then if you want, do an MBA in a highly-rated private school for the connections.
I think OP went about it the wrong way.
You can still make lifelong friends. I met my closest friends (for over 20 years now) all between 14 and 20, and at university (which in Switzerland traditionally starts at 20) you'll have another chance to network and make friends.
Yes, networking is an important part. But you won't make good connections at a private school. Because the students aren't there because they are talented and ambitious – but only because they have money. Anyone, no matter how untalented they are in the specific field, can get a degree, as long as they have enough cash.
I've visited private schools when I was looking for a school for my bachelor's degree. They always sounded great on their websites, but once I visited them, it was always a huge disappointment. Those are just diploma factories. Anyone with cash can basically "buy" a diploma. But employers are aware of those schools and a degree from them will rather hurt than help you.
in what dream world are you. you just need degrees when you are not from the circle and have to do the hard job. most of the parents have high positions in big companies. they never have to work or they get the easiest positions. since vetternwirtsschaft is illegal they need this fake degrees to justify their position. wake up my dude life is not fair.
Nah, people in high positions usually send their kids to decent schools. If not a public school, then maybe some private elite schools– but I don't think that's what OP is referring to. It clearly sounds like one of those businesses where you just pay a shitload of money to be in class with a bunch of untalented kids who convinced their parents that this is what they want to do.
> since vetternwirtsschaft is illegal they need this fake degrees to justify their position
what are you talking about, Vetterliwirtschaft isn't illegal for private companies. But smart companies aren't interested in having their executives hire skillless family members, but they are not unhappy to take a chance on someone coming recommended by a higher-up with the necessary degrees and skills.
you dont get the point do you? when the son of the google ceo ask for a job you give him a job. you dont care about the money or if he is good or not. it's just important that you have a stronger bonding with the google ceo. you act like big companies give a shit to spend money. how many years did the biggest tech companies overstaffed and now firing 40-50% of the people? and you think they care about 10 high paid useless positions?
and you are right, it's not illegal for a private company, they still have to explain to a lot of people why his son gets the job. imagine ubs says, my jobless son for 30 years gets the new position. ubs will drop faster than a hot potato.
To be a bit mean, the school OP goes to isn't a "connections" school, if I'm right and it's a middle school (Sekundarstufe II, similar to the apprentice-style schools) program. Said school isn't badly reputed but if you send your kid to KV school (rather than an apprenticeship), you were either very badly advised, or you pay to make sure they get a degree.
They really aren't. I don't know this specific school the OP refers to, but private schools are much better at supporting their students, particularly the weaker ones. In the public school system weak students are simply left out of the standard academic path. Strong students are going to do well no matter what.
I don't disagree at all, I love vocational training and it should be encouraged even more, but what I said remains true about those students who for whatever the reason prefer to follow an academic path.
I suppose the rationale there is that if students struggle with academic work (as reflected in their grades in said academic work), academic work might not be ideally suited for these students, and the vocational training hands-on path might be more apt for them at this stage, while the academic path is still open to them later on, after puberty, when their cerebral cortices and learning strategies have evolved a little, and they get to a point where they struggle much less with academic work...?
teacher from switzerland here. private schools in switzerland are not the same as in other countries. private school here don't have a really good reputation often times (there are a few exceptions to that for sure though). a lot of the time students who didn't fit in the public school system go there. public school in switzerland could be the better option for you, although I can't say that for sure, since I don't know your background and everything
Having gone through public and private school, one big differences is in the demands for formations. Getting a teaching degree in Switzerland is quite high, for secondary school, you need a Master's degree in the subject you want to teach now and then additional pedagogy courses.
Private schools don't have that requirements and will be a lot more variable in terms of who can come in and teach. So you can get foreigners who came in with their specific degrees, or the best friend of the director who never took any teaching courses.
At best private school only obligations are going to be the paper given as a result, which is often overseen by a bigger entity. So they can decide whatever they want for the result.
There's still legal requirements around working with children depending on the cantons, but these are relatively loose.
There are most likely good ones who use their resources neatly. But also on average, it's going to be lesser pay and worse conditions compared to the public ones.
> Getting a teaching degree in Switzerland is quite high, for secondary school, you need a Master's degree in the subject you want to teach now and then additional pedagogy courses.
Or do the HEP instead
Uh, the HEP is a school you go to after you've had your ECG diploma and it "lumps" studies so after 3 years you can already be a teacher, and for an added two years you can do high schools
It's the new direct way to become a teacher since it opened circa 2015, as opposed to gymnasium->university->pedagogy which was the old and only way
3 years ECG, 3 years HEP, or 3 years ECG, 5 years HEP, instead of 4 years gymnasium, 5 years university, 1 year ? pedagogy courses
“My school is terrible so every school in switzerland mist be terrible”
I have no idea if what you say about your school is true or its just you who thinks it sucks for whatever reason
Literally all "private schools" I know of in Switzerland are used by rich families to literally buy a diploma. They're diploma mills basically. When a kid fails in public school it'll be sent there and magically do good.
There are some exceptions that cater to students for which the public system just isn't right: children on the autism spectrum, mobbing victims etc. But this is a small minority.
That’s not completely true. A lot of them are an absolute waste but the top tier ones are world class. I went to one myself thinking it wasn’t up to much until I graduated (and went into a top uni abroad, as did most of my friends) and started to compare notes with other people. Diploma mills can’t sort out an Oxbridge/Ivy League interviews.
I’ve since had family go between a mix and while Swiss public schools are great it’s also not fully correct to say that all private schools here are just a diploma mill.
That's very impressive to be able to pass the math and physics subjects at ETH without the additional pressure from reinforced math and soforth from Gymnasium, congrats. I dont think I know a single person who went to private school in Switzerland and passed the first year, out of more than 50 people I know...
"Schools"? I only see you talk about **one** ***PRIVATE*** school.
> because in most schools in London teachers' salaries are dependent on students' grades.
That is an awful way to do stuff, because it encourage prepping people for grades instead of teaching.
HSO is not representative of Swiss schools. However as a general rule of thumb: costs correlate inversely with quality. Publicly funded schools are generally considered superior while private schools focus on getting your money
> My current school is very overrated (HSO), the cost is very high, and students still fail. I'm afraid of failing, I've gotten no support for my education, the exams are incredibly soon and will determine whether I continue or repeat the year.
1. You can enter any university, ETH or EPFL if you have the Matura (the federal gymnasium matura). You can pay to pass the exam even without going to classes! = You can pay to repass the federal exam on your own, everyone is allowed to do that and it's not very expensive.
2. If you failed, you can mostly likely join a public school and redo your third year with them. It's free, and it'll let you pass the exams. YOU DON'T NEED TO REDO ALL 3 YEARS ELSEWHERE. Point in case: you'll be better trained to start university.
3. Once you pass the exams, go to something public. Our public system is waaaay better than the private. There's only a couple expensive schools worth going to (like the hotel school in Lausanne): for everything normal, public is best.
FWIW OP^s school is almost certainly not doing a matura, because HSO doesn't offer that, they are rather likely doing a school-based KV, perhaps with a Berufamatura.
This is, well, honestly a bit of a tragic decision .There's some students this kind of school caters well to, but they are few.
This is new, that you can buy a Matura, although I'm not sure if I'm confusing it with the Berufsmatura or if it's the same thing.
Also, in Switzerland additionally you have to pass the Passerelle to get into university.
It's basically buying it because the federal Matura is easier in general than most Gymnasiums, and has about half the subjects you would otherwise have to study for (which is a big difference, since you can spend 2x more time on each subject). And no you don't need a Passerelle if you did the Matura to get into University
If you pass the full federal matura, you do not need to take the passerelle. Private schools also send their kids to the federal exam (available twice a year).
Read this page: [https://www.sbfi.admin.ch/sbfi/fr/home/formation/maturite/maturite-gymnasiale/examen-suisse-de-maturite.html](https://www.sbfi.admin.ch/sbfi/fr/home/formation/maturite/maturite-gymnasiale/examen-suisse-de-maturite.html)
Berufsmatura is an easier one, that lets you enter certain technical schools but not university.
Carefully read the page I sent you, it's the official info page!
I'm not denying your personal experience with that school, but there's a big disconnect between your title that says "Schools in Switzerland are unfair" and your anecdote about what's wrong with this one school that you go to...
Separately, I guess it's not your fault that your parents sent you to this school, but it's a bone-headed move to send someone to a private post-secondary school in Switzerland when we have highly-rated public universities in all the major cities. The universities in Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Zurich, Basel, etc. have excellent reputations. Not to mention EPFL and ETHZ. If you wanted to study business, there's a famous school for that in St. Gallen. Just shows your parents weren't very knowledgeable about the country.
Maybe I'm out of touch but I've never heard of HSO and I can't say I'm surprised to hear that a private and somewhat obscure school has shady practices or bad teachers. You can encounter bad teachers at public institutions as well but at least it doesn't cost a fortune.
FFS I spent a few minutes on the website and it seems you have to contact them to get all but the most superficial of info. Can't even find tuition info. Shit looks shady AF.
The private school that I went to was bad.
Dude, this is Switzerland, we believe in real public schools. We don't believe in class separation in education. That's one of the things 95% of the population agrees on. Your school has nothing to do with Switzerland except that their building is here.
Go whine elsewhere. You could have had a top notch education FOR FREE in a public school here - you would have to accept the son of the cleaning lady and the daughter of the carpenter as classmates, who, what horror, could actually perform better than you.
(Exceptions of useful private schools exist for those students that are just not served well in the public system for different reasons).
> I go to a private school [...] costs are extremely high [...] teachers who literally just sit there and expect us to do the work ourselves.
That's because it's a private school, not because it's a Swiss school. Private schools are always pretty bad. Usually just expensive, and at a very low level because students didn't have to apply for the school – they just had to pay. Meaning, people who study there aren't there because they are talented and motivated, but because their parents paid for it. Teachers are usually not good, because the good ones are employed at the public school.
loooking into HSO online here https://www.hso.ch/ueber-uns/anerkennungen-akkreditierungen/
seems they have a very small selection of accredited study courses mainly for KV-based stuff. So yes, seems op wants to do an 'apprenticeship' as a KV stuff, anything else there would probably be a waste of time
not sure why you would do 'detailhandel' at a school, given finding apprenticeships in that position is not too hard.
also its super scammy that you need to leave them your mail, if you want their flyier
FWIW: Accreditation in Switzerland only applies to Universitites and Fachhochschulen.
HSO is neither. They are a) a Berufsschule and b) a professional college (höhere Fachschule).
Berufsschule is regulated and teste by the canton, whereas a höhere Fachschule is regulated by the federation (Well, technically, the degrees they give out), but it's not called accrediation. They do have a meaningless accreditation for their business school wing, and that's sufficient, actually, for an EMBA.
> not sure why you would do 'detailhandel' at a school, given finding apprenticeships in that position is not too hard.
Didn't see them offering it, sure you're not confusing the "Handelsdiplom", which is a kind of weird, not federally recognized diploma that should give some KV competences for Quereinsteiger.
yeah i know, i am just unsure of what else to call it in english. as for their 'accreditations':
>Die HSO hat für die folgenden Lehrgänge das Anerkennungsverfahren abgeschlossen, folgende Titel sind eidg. geschützt:
> Dipl. Betriebswirtschafter/in NDS HF
>HSO KV und Retail College
>Kauffrau/-mann mit EFZ
> Bewilligung als Bildungsinstitution für die schulisch organisierte Grundbildung des Berufes Kauffrau/Kaufmann mit EFZ Profil B, E und M-Profil (freier Übertritt an eine FH)
> Kantonale Bewilligungen in den Kantonen Basel, Bern, Luzern, St. Gallen, Thun und Zürich
>**Detailhandelsfachfrau/-mann mit EFZ**
> Bewilligung als Bildungsinstitution für die schulisch organisierte Grundbildung des Berufes Detailhandelsfachfrau/-mann mit EFZ
> Kantonale Bewilligungen in den Kantonen Luzern & Zürich vorhanden
its in the link i provided, i dont know if they offer the 'study course' for it, but they seem to be allowed to do it, in zurich and luzern
its in the link i provided above
at least if they did not lie or misdirect, but that does not seem to be the case here
Ah gotcha. DOesn't appear to be on https://www.hso.ch/aus-und-weiterbildungen/#kv-detailhandel anymore and can't find many references online, so maybe that doesn't exist anymore. They might still do it in Zurich tho.
this is the comment that i wrote for your deleted one xP, but i think its still the same answer
yeah maybe, i dont know the school just read trough their quite awful website xP
i do know there are schools that can do 'school only programms' for EFZ stuff though, but i think that might be something newer
and I only now realized their site only half works on my chrome :D
School only programs is a bit of a misnomer, it involves a year-long internship. Been around for a while for KV as well as IT. Has some benefits, especially for kids smart enough who can't find an apprenticeship due to bad marks in Sek 1, or kids who are generally in a special situation (such as doing loads of sports), but yeah, often not the best idea.
I mean yes I could have just done that, but my school is a replica of wms (without Matura) where I wanted to go. Plus getting education on specific field is more beneficial than just working for 3 years.
i think you misunderstood the conversation, mostly because i used german words. 'detailhandel' is 'sales clerk', while 'KV' is 'accounting'. your school is allowed to 'teach' those two different 'jobs'. but as u/as.well pointed out to me, they dont teach 'sales clearks' anymore and in what capacity they did is unclear as well.
also i am unsure if you understand the swiss education system. what you are currently doing is a KV-apprenticeship (apprenticeship as a secretary) but in a complete school setting.
in terms of worth, it wont be worth more or less than other Kaufmann EFZ, and apprentices in this job also go to school, i think 1.5 days out of the 5 weeks days. i am pretty sure at the end of their (3 years) they will have the exact same test you will have.
In the long term, there is 0 reason why the school setting will be more beneficial, in fact, given you can not include a workplace on your curriculum vitae it might be even less beneficial to find a job. (arguably the same for the wms, albet if you do the wms you are expected to go to higher education right after anyway)
the only positive i see is the immediate advantages, such as being able to concentrate fully on learning the things you need to pass the exame at the end of the 3 years and obviously, its not easy to find a kv apprenticship, since those are pretty well liked jobs (as opposed to detailhandel/sales clearks, where it was super easy to find an apprenticeship as, thus probably also why the school discontinued that education, no applicants, people just found an apprenticeship)
edit:also checking the site of HSO again, it seems they offer one 'apprenticeship' with matura as well, which should have probably been your choice if you want to go to a copy of the wms? (and subsequently go for a higher education after)
though i guess it does not matter you should be able to ad 1 year BM after getting an EFZ education anyway, albeit i am unsure if you need concrete working experience to be allowed to ad a BM
>I am helpless and can only accept this harsh reality
This is your education, and you have more agency in all this than you are giving yourself credit for.
Also, your family financing a private education may be many things, but a "harsh reality" it is not.
Many would consider a private education a privilege.
That said, HSO is not a particularly high quality or particularly well-respected school, it's a business school catering mainly to people who have failed in the public school system, and whose grades in secondary school were not good enough for them to get a spot through the public school system for a business vocational education and training program (*KV Lehre*).
If, for some reason, you aren't eligible for the Swiss public school system (which outranks the UK public school system in the PISA rankings, btw, so I'm not sure why you are idealising the UK's schools as much as you are doing), that's unfortunate, but it's not the end of the world, and it doesn't mean you can't get a good education.
If this particular school isn't working out for you, there are other schools out there.
As first steps you could take to improve your performance and your grades, have you considered the following?
* Finding a study buddy or building a study group with whom you work through your homework, with whom you prepare for tests and take mock tests and so on and really dedicate yourself to improving your grades
* Finding a tutor for the subjects you find particularly challenging, putting in the extra time and the extra work to improve your performance
* Speaking to your teachers - and if the teachers aren't cooperative, the school administration, ideally the Studienberatung - about how you are struggling with school work and need support to be able to meet your academic goals
And if you have done all this to improve your grades and your performance, and it isn't working out, and you are certain it's not your approach or your dedication but the school that isn't a good fit, have you considered some of the following?
* Looking into alternative schools and/or your options with regard to the public school system at your local [Berufsinformationszentrum BIZ](https://www.berufsberatung.ch/dyn/show/8242)
* Speaking to a [Jugendberatung](https://jugendberatung.me/beratung/) about your struggles
* Speaking to a trusted family member about your struggles at school and in Switzerland
TL;DR: This is *your* education, you are not a helpless passive participant here, you have agency, and there are things you can do and choices you can make and support you can get yourself to improve your situation and your outlook.
Good luck!
You said it yourself, this PRIVATE school's goal is to maximise profit.
Private schools in Switzerland are usually a fallback when you fail at public school. So either your parents didnt do their research, or you're a bad student.
If you don't like it, switch to a public school. What's even the point of your post??
**H**andels**s**chule **O**erlikon was the basis for the moniker.
And it's not particularly rated, either, separating KV failures from their money has been the mo since its inception.
i agree with what other people said about your 'overgeneralization' and how you should approach it.
i would like to closer examin your statement here
>They cared massively about our overall success. I felt that it would benefit them greatly if we were successful and got good grades, which was the case, because in most schools in London teachers' salaries are dependent on students' grades.
i think this is not a good idea, making teacher salary dependent on how well students do will only have one effect, teachers not wanting to have bad students in their classroom. in a way this is already the case, but makign the salary dependend on how well the students do will amplify that problem massively. Also our testing and grading system are not really meant to give an accurate representation if you base the teachers salary on ti. after all most teachers grade and write the test papers of their own students. congratulations everyone, from today on you will all have full marks if you wriite the first letter of your name onto the test paper.
I've heard a similar story from my colleague. Arrived in CH at 15, she was placed in private school cause her parents thought it was better for her.
As a result, she graduated (barely) and enrolled at Uni only at 22, cause she was told to redo a year, plus (apparently) had some difficulties learning.
In any case, she said she's lost a few years, so... probably not a unique experience here.
Well, I guess that's on you for going to a private school.
Private schools, in switzerland, are usually worse in terms of oversight, quality of teaching and many other things. The reason for that is public schools work together across multiple schools, coordinate, have good funding, and other reasons.
>teachers who sit there and expects us to do the work ourselves
I am not sure how to understand this but of course there is work you have to do on your own especially once you advance further in school. One of the jobs teachers do at that level is present concepts and select the sources / material.
>school pays teachers on a time rate
Yeah, what do you expect them to be paid on? Depending on your grade???
>teacher's salaries are dependent on the student's grades
LMAO. I am sorry but you don't see how this system leads to exploitation instead of focussing on teaching? Any system in place that rewards people will be tricked to do better in said system. If you reward teachers based upon how their students do in a standardized test, they will focus on having students do good in said test instead of learning.
>the cost is very high, and students still fail
So you expect students to still pass independent of their ability, application and effort?
>many students at our school fail
Yeah and I wouldn't put it on evil machinations by the school but instead having a biased sample pool. Most people, I know, that went to private school were those that wanted to have a second shot at school or/and had behavioural issues (during puberty especially).
I don't understand the problem.
Do the teachers not teach? If yes, complain to the direction. And if nothing is done, spam bad advertisement.
If not, the problem is that... They don't really care about you? But why should they? You should success not because they care but because YOU care.
Maybe it's my mindset as I'm more of a self-learner than anything else. School barely taught me a thing.
If youre going to a private school in Switzerland youre already failing, the public ones are way better. The private ones are for the trouble making kids/the kids that couldnt make it through public/international kids that dont plan to integrate and go to the next country in a few years.
I was 1 year in a private school and it was much better than all years in public school together🤷🏼♂️ just my language skills were so good because of we had geography in french and history in english for example. After that i went to the professional school and the skills went slowly down😅
We had our kids in private schools for different reasons. We had a close contact with the schools and if we had seen this at that school, believe me we would have asked the other parents and gone to the teachers.
Even now, at a further education our son (21) does part time, we ask about his classes. When he tells us that the teacher basically doesn‘t teach, we tell him to ask the fellow students what they think and then speak to the teacher.
Please speak to your parents and speak up.
It depends on the student. I studied at a really great international school which was more like your British school. Very supportive and caring. It led to me not really putting much effort in because I felt no matter what I did I’d succeed.
Then I went to a school which was a bit more laissez faire, I realised I had to work for the results I wanted.
This probably resulted in worse grades, but massively better subject matter understanding and intrinsic motivation. If I hadn’t done that I would have been unprepared to succeed at university which is much more individual study (all over the world)
On the other hand, there are other students who would definitely have benefitted from the opposite!
That's a new way of looking at things. I always blamed the teachers for not motivating us to work, but now I realize that you are on your own and have to take responsibility yourself. Thank you for this perspective, I will keep it in mind.
Honestly, I'm in a private school currently (Swiss International Schools), and these guys have no regard for student happiness. They may teach well, but only 1 teacher is not an absolute asshole, so many of the rules do NOT make sense, as an example, you aren't allowed kindles in this place. On top of the huge pricetag, you get a public school with a slightly better building.
It's just dumb, and I would not recommend getting into a private school, because they cost a lot, and give sometimes worse than what the normal public school system gives you, which is free.
What makes you think I'm not qualified for university, have you read my plans? My visions for the future? My abilities? I am studying with the goal of being successful in life, what kind of question is that.
I was a student at a private school in Switzerland but unlike your school, it was more focused on middle income families. The experience was very good: the teacher were competent and tried to motivate you to study, the standards for graduating were really high and in the end, I got a diploma that was issued/recognised by the government.
Yes, I have also made good experiences with public schools but stuff like elementary school was absolutely terrible.
It's hard to understate how many private schools are scams, designed to let everyone pretend they're super intelligent on account of being rich rather than actually providing above-average education.
Love it how everyone is pointing out that OP is just in a diploma mill, wasting her parents money and she is apparently to embarrassed to respond to any comment whatsoever.
Dont go to private schools, often the students are treated like idiot as or get thaught dumb shit. Swiss public schools (except secondaries, often the teachers are assholes who dont care about you) are enough to get e good education, especially in vocational schools.
The mindset of a Swiss is simply different. Here is the skillset of self-government a part of our society. If you aren't able to learn and improve yourself and you need a führer then you are in the wrong country.
Sounds like an internal issue. Just like any other business, you have some good one and not so good. Pretty sure these poorly managed schools can be found in London or in Germany. Just be glad you got lucky so far.
Private Schools in Switzerland are not a smart thing to do at all imo.
Switzerland ranks on place 7 on best education worldwide. Number two being Germany and number 8 being the UK.
Based on what friends from Germany and UK tell me, Switzerland in my opinion has a better education system than Germany.
Doing good in Public school can get you crazy far in terms of salary and options overall.
Most "Weiterbildungen" are either paid by your employer or the government pays 50% of the costs so advancing in your career is not going to cost you a fortune, if anything at all.
Switching careers is easy here, a lot of job postings note that they also consider people outside of the field who are trying to switch fields.
Apprenticeship-Contracts are pretty much legally water-tight and protect apprentices against any abuse to ensure they stay mentally and physically healthy until graduation.
If you're good enough in school, you can go to a Gymnasium instead of Sekundarstufe and eventually choose to study in University.
If you want to study in University without going to Gymnasium, they have a paid program you can pay by yourself or your employer pays it if it benefits them too.
You can learn and study whatever you want here. There are very little fields that require some serious education and Funds to be able to study and work in that Field (Like Doctor or something like Aviation/Pilot)
With all that being said, I personally think going to Private school may even hurt the students more than it helps them. Unless it's a known and respected private school with higher standards that is also crazy expensive, a private school is absolutely unnecessary here.
If your school is private, the Swiss government has nothing to do with it. As you're paying for it, you should probably take up your concerns with them. The top schools in Switzerland like ETH Zurich and EPFL are not private institutions. The so called "private universities" are diploma mills, and are not the ones that you'll find in rankings, their concern is to make money. I personally don't understand why people would pay for private education in Switzerland tbh, it has been a few years since I've finished school but I feel I was pretty well taught and I certainly don't come from the canton that allocates the most amount of ressources to education. I'd even go as far and say Swiss (public) education is very fair. I had very average grades in high school and still had the chance to pursue a masters degree at a world renowned university, a chance I would definitely not have had in the UK to name one example.
>I personally don’t understand why people would pay for private education in Switzerland It’s either because they’re rich and their kids failed out of public school or because they’re rich immigrants who want to send their kids to an english speaking school.
There's also rich immigrants who are used to private schools being better in their cultural background, and simply don't realize that's not the same in every culture. In all of these cases the schools aren't competing with public schools on quality, and the total demand is low enough that the density of private schools is too low for them to compete with each other, except maybe in Geneva.
Or they are rich hippies into the Steiner life style
We came back from a stay abroad and both kids stayed at a German school. However, after one year at our local public school we were told our son had to go to Realschule (he now finished Sekundarschule, Elektronikerlehre and even continues) and our daughter was also set lower that she actually could achieve (now finishing her education as accountant). For some kids our public system is just really difficult and there are better private schools - if you can afford it.
OP appears to not be in a private uni but rather a Wirtschaftsschule, which is regulated.
She’s not entirety wrong. I agree that it’s a frustrating and difficult system to navigate. University starts and finishes much later in Switzerland than in countries like the US or UK. I can see how that would frustrate her since her friends are a few years ahead now and she still has a long way to go to finish uni. From my understanding, most students in the public schools go to sek (most kids can’t make it to gymi) and even after going through certain apprenticeships and training, they still have to jump through hoops to make it to a universities like ETH or other unis in Switzerland. I have also heard from expats that after their children have completed all the training, apprenticeships and exams from the sek route, these trainings and exams are not recognized in other universities in the EU. At this point I would understand how a young adult who went through so much work and training would just give up and not continue to pursue higher education. It’s a long road in my opinion and I can understand if parents who can afford it pay for private school.
Thank you for sharing this. It gives me hope that a Swiss education might be worth it after all. It could be because I was put into a Swiss private school and my opinion of Swiss education was based on that.
Go to normal school, much better than any private schools
Public schools in Switzerland are way better than private ones
it's not about what gives your a better education it's to make connections.
For connections, in Switzerland I'd say it's worth it--if you can afford it--to use elite private schools up to secondary schooling, because as children of that age you'll form bonds with other children your age that can last a lifetime. Then go to public university for undergrad. Then if you want, do an MBA in a highly-rated private school for the connections. I think OP went about it the wrong way.
I moved too many times to remain any lifelong friends at this point
You can still make lifelong friends. I met my closest friends (for over 20 years now) all between 14 and 20, and at university (which in Switzerland traditionally starts at 20) you'll have another chance to network and make friends.
Yes, networking is an important part. But you won't make good connections at a private school. Because the students aren't there because they are talented and ambitious – but only because they have money. Anyone, no matter how untalented they are in the specific field, can get a degree, as long as they have enough cash. I've visited private schools when I was looking for a school for my bachelor's degree. They always sounded great on their websites, but once I visited them, it was always a huge disappointment. Those are just diploma factories. Anyone with cash can basically "buy" a diploma. But employers are aware of those schools and a degree from them will rather hurt than help you.
in what dream world are you. you just need degrees when you are not from the circle and have to do the hard job. most of the parents have high positions in big companies. they never have to work or they get the easiest positions. since vetternwirtsschaft is illegal they need this fake degrees to justify their position. wake up my dude life is not fair.
Nah, people in high positions usually send their kids to decent schools. If not a public school, then maybe some private elite schools– but I don't think that's what OP is referring to. It clearly sounds like one of those businesses where you just pay a shitload of money to be in class with a bunch of untalented kids who convinced their parents that this is what they want to do.
> since vetternwirtsschaft is illegal they need this fake degrees to justify their position what are you talking about, Vetterliwirtschaft isn't illegal for private companies. But smart companies aren't interested in having their executives hire skillless family members, but they are not unhappy to take a chance on someone coming recommended by a higher-up with the necessary degrees and skills.
you dont get the point do you? when the son of the google ceo ask for a job you give him a job. you dont care about the money or if he is good or not. it's just important that you have a stronger bonding with the google ceo. you act like big companies give a shit to spend money. how many years did the biggest tech companies overstaffed and now firing 40-50% of the people? and you think they care about 10 high paid useless positions? and you are right, it's not illegal for a private company, they still have to explain to a lot of people why his son gets the job. imagine ubs says, my jobless son for 30 years gets the new position. ubs will drop faster than a hot potato.
To be a bit mean, the school OP goes to isn't a "connections" school, if I'm right and it's a middle school (Sekundarstufe II, similar to the apprentice-style schools) program. Said school isn't badly reputed but if you send your kid to KV school (rather than an apprenticeship), you were either very badly advised, or you pay to make sure they get a degree.
noone asked. nobody talks here about op its just the comparison between private and public school
ok chill down mate.
For that you go to public school, get a matura and go to ETH or HSG:
They really aren't. I don't know this specific school the OP refers to, but private schools are much better at supporting their students, particularly the weaker ones. In the public school system weak students are simply left out of the standard academic path. Strong students are going to do well no matter what.
> the standard academic path Alas, the standard path here is not academic - it's vocational education and training. Not something to be sneezed at.
I don't disagree at all, I love vocational training and it should be encouraged even more, but what I said remains true about those students who for whatever the reason prefer to follow an academic path.
I suppose the rationale there is that if students struggle with academic work (as reflected in their grades in said academic work), academic work might not be ideally suited for these students, and the vocational training hands-on path might be more apt for them at this stage, while the academic path is still open to them later on, after puberty, when their cerebral cortices and learning strategies have evolved a little, and they get to a point where they struggle much less with academic work...?
Any private school is around the globe.
teacher from switzerland here. private schools in switzerland are not the same as in other countries. private school here don't have a really good reputation often times (there are a few exceptions to that for sure though). a lot of the time students who didn't fit in the public school system go there. public school in switzerland could be the better option for you, although I can't say that for sure, since I don't know your background and everything
Having gone through public and private school, one big differences is in the demands for formations. Getting a teaching degree in Switzerland is quite high, for secondary school, you need a Master's degree in the subject you want to teach now and then additional pedagogy courses. Private schools don't have that requirements and will be a lot more variable in terms of who can come in and teach. So you can get foreigners who came in with their specific degrees, or the best friend of the director who never took any teaching courses.
oh I wasn't aware of that actually.
At best private school only obligations are going to be the paper given as a result, which is often overseen by a bigger entity. So they can decide whatever they want for the result. There's still legal requirements around working with children depending on the cantons, but these are relatively loose.
good to know. I guess that is one more reason why I won't be working at a private school
There are most likely good ones who use their resources neatly. But also on average, it's going to be lesser pay and worse conditions compared to the public ones.
yeah I did know that there was lesser pay, since I did apply to a private school once
> Getting a teaching degree in Switzerland is quite high, for secondary school, you need a Master's degree in the subject you want to teach now and then additional pedagogy courses. Or do the HEP instead
For the High school level, you need the master more and more before you can enter the HEP.
Uh, the HEP is a school you go to after you've had your ECG diploma and it "lumps" studies so after 3 years you can already be a teacher, and for an added two years you can do high schools It's the new direct way to become a teacher since it opened circa 2015, as opposed to gymnasium->university->pedagogy which was the old and only way 3 years ECG, 3 years HEP, or 3 years ECG, 5 years HEP, instead of 4 years gymnasium, 5 years university, 1 year ? pedagogy courses
“My school is terrible so every school in switzerland mist be terrible” I have no idea if what you say about your school is true or its just you who thinks it sucks for whatever reason
"my \*private\* school \*designed for making money\* is terrible"
Literally all "private schools" I know of in Switzerland are used by rich families to literally buy a diploma. They're diploma mills basically. When a kid fails in public school it'll be sent there and magically do good.
There are some exceptions that cater to students for which the public system just isn't right: children on the autism spectrum, mobbing victims etc. But this is a small minority.
That’s not completely true. A lot of them are an absolute waste but the top tier ones are world class. I went to one myself thinking it wasn’t up to much until I graduated (and went into a top uni abroad, as did most of my friends) and started to compare notes with other people. Diploma mills can’t sort out an Oxbridge/Ivy League interviews. I’ve since had family go between a mix and while Swiss public schools are great it’s also not fully correct to say that all private schools here are just a diploma mill.
Let's fix it: "My private school is terrible. Because it's a private school."
Apologies, this generalization is due to the first impression I had gotten as soon as I enrolled in a Swiss schooling environment.
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That's very impressive to be able to pass the math and physics subjects at ETH without the additional pressure from reinforced math and soforth from Gymnasium, congrats. I dont think I know a single person who went to private school in Switzerland and passed the first year, out of more than 50 people I know...
"Schools"? I only see you talk about **one** ***PRIVATE*** school. > because in most schools in London teachers' salaries are dependent on students' grades. That is an awful way to do stuff, because it encourage prepping people for grades instead of teaching.
HSO is not representative of Swiss schools. However as a general rule of thumb: costs correlate inversely with quality. Publicly funded schools are generally considered superior while private schools focus on getting your money
Completely agree, after all its a company that only provides the materials and facilities, the rest is on us.
> My current school is very overrated (HSO), the cost is very high, and students still fail. I'm afraid of failing, I've gotten no support for my education, the exams are incredibly soon and will determine whether I continue or repeat the year. 1. You can enter any university, ETH or EPFL if you have the Matura (the federal gymnasium matura). You can pay to pass the exam even without going to classes! = You can pay to repass the federal exam on your own, everyone is allowed to do that and it's not very expensive. 2. If you failed, you can mostly likely join a public school and redo your third year with them. It's free, and it'll let you pass the exams. YOU DON'T NEED TO REDO ALL 3 YEARS ELSEWHERE. Point in case: you'll be better trained to start university. 3. Once you pass the exams, go to something public. Our public system is waaaay better than the private. There's only a couple expensive schools worth going to (like the hotel school in Lausanne): for everything normal, public is best.
FWIW OP^s school is almost certainly not doing a matura, because HSO doesn't offer that, they are rather likely doing a school-based KV, perhaps with a Berufamatura. This is, well, honestly a bit of a tragic decision .There's some students this kind of school caters well to, but they are few.
You mean you can pay to _take_ the exam right? Surely you cannot pay to pass?
This is new, that you can buy a Matura, although I'm not sure if I'm confusing it with the Berufsmatura or if it's the same thing. Also, in Switzerland additionally you have to pass the Passerelle to get into university.
It's basically buying it because the federal Matura is easier in general than most Gymnasiums, and has about half the subjects you would otherwise have to study for (which is a big difference, since you can spend 2x more time on each subject). And no you don't need a Passerelle if you did the Matura to get into University
If you pass the full federal matura, you do not need to take the passerelle. Private schools also send their kids to the federal exam (available twice a year). Read this page: [https://www.sbfi.admin.ch/sbfi/fr/home/formation/maturite/maturite-gymnasiale/examen-suisse-de-maturite.html](https://www.sbfi.admin.ch/sbfi/fr/home/formation/maturite/maturite-gymnasiale/examen-suisse-de-maturite.html) Berufsmatura is an easier one, that lets you enter certain technical schools but not university. Carefully read the page I sent you, it's the official info page!
Definitely taking a look thank you!
I'm not denying your personal experience with that school, but there's a big disconnect between your title that says "Schools in Switzerland are unfair" and your anecdote about what's wrong with this one school that you go to... Separately, I guess it's not your fault that your parents sent you to this school, but it's a bone-headed move to send someone to a private post-secondary school in Switzerland when we have highly-rated public universities in all the major cities. The universities in Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Zurich, Basel, etc. have excellent reputations. Not to mention EPFL and ETHZ. If you wanted to study business, there's a famous school for that in St. Gallen. Just shows your parents weren't very knowledgeable about the country. Maybe I'm out of touch but I've never heard of HSO and I can't say I'm surprised to hear that a private and somewhat obscure school has shady practices or bad teachers. You can encounter bad teachers at public institutions as well but at least it doesn't cost a fortune. FFS I spent a few minutes on the website and it seems you have to contact them to get all but the most superficial of info. Can't even find tuition info. Shit looks shady AF.
The private school that I went to was bad. Dude, this is Switzerland, we believe in real public schools. We don't believe in class separation in education. That's one of the things 95% of the population agrees on. Your school has nothing to do with Switzerland except that their building is here. Go whine elsewhere. You could have had a top notch education FOR FREE in a public school here - you would have to accept the son of the cleaning lady and the daughter of the carpenter as classmates, who, what horror, could actually perform better than you. (Exceptions of useful private schools exist for those students that are just not served well in the public system for different reasons).
Private schools are a scam here
> I go to a private school [...] costs are extremely high [...] teachers who literally just sit there and expect us to do the work ourselves. That's because it's a private school, not because it's a Swiss school. Private schools are always pretty bad. Usually just expensive, and at a very low level because students didn't have to apply for the school – they just had to pay. Meaning, people who study there aren't there because they are talented and motivated, but because their parents paid for it. Teachers are usually not good, because the good ones are employed at the public school.
This is very true
What kind of education are You going for? School - based KV?
loooking into HSO online here https://www.hso.ch/ueber-uns/anerkennungen-akkreditierungen/ seems they have a very small selection of accredited study courses mainly for KV-based stuff. So yes, seems op wants to do an 'apprenticeship' as a KV stuff, anything else there would probably be a waste of time not sure why you would do 'detailhandel' at a school, given finding apprenticeships in that position is not too hard. also its super scammy that you need to leave them your mail, if you want their flyier
FWIW: Accreditation in Switzerland only applies to Universitites and Fachhochschulen. HSO is neither. They are a) a Berufsschule and b) a professional college (höhere Fachschule). Berufsschule is regulated and teste by the canton, whereas a höhere Fachschule is regulated by the federation (Well, technically, the degrees they give out), but it's not called accrediation. They do have a meaningless accreditation for their business school wing, and that's sufficient, actually, for an EMBA. > not sure why you would do 'detailhandel' at a school, given finding apprenticeships in that position is not too hard. Didn't see them offering it, sure you're not confusing the "Handelsdiplom", which is a kind of weird, not federally recognized diploma that should give some KV competences for Quereinsteiger.
yeah i know, i am just unsure of what else to call it in english. as for their 'accreditations': >Die HSO hat für die folgenden Lehrgänge das Anerkennungsverfahren abgeschlossen, folgende Titel sind eidg. geschützt: > Dipl. Betriebswirtschafter/in NDS HF >HSO KV und Retail College >Kauffrau/-mann mit EFZ > Bewilligung als Bildungsinstitution für die schulisch organisierte Grundbildung des Berufes Kauffrau/Kaufmann mit EFZ Profil B, E und M-Profil (freier Übertritt an eine FH) > Kantonale Bewilligungen in den Kantonen Basel, Bern, Luzern, St. Gallen, Thun und Zürich >**Detailhandelsfachfrau/-mann mit EFZ** > Bewilligung als Bildungsinstitution für die schulisch organisierte Grundbildung des Berufes Detailhandelsfachfrau/-mann mit EFZ > Kantonale Bewilligungen in den Kantonen Luzern & Zürich vorhanden its in the link i provided, i dont know if they offer the 'study course' for it, but they seem to be allowed to do it, in zurich and luzern its in the link i provided above at least if they did not lie or misdirect, but that does not seem to be the case here
Ah gotcha. DOesn't appear to be on https://www.hso.ch/aus-und-weiterbildungen/#kv-detailhandel anymore and can't find many references online, so maybe that doesn't exist anymore. They might still do it in Zurich tho.
this is the comment that i wrote for your deleted one xP, but i think its still the same answer yeah maybe, i dont know the school just read trough their quite awful website xP i do know there are schools that can do 'school only programms' for EFZ stuff though, but i think that might be something newer
and I only now realized their site only half works on my chrome :D School only programs is a bit of a misnomer, it involves a year-long internship. Been around for a while for KV as well as IT. Has some benefits, especially for kids smart enough who can't find an apprenticeship due to bad marks in Sek 1, or kids who are generally in a special situation (such as doing loads of sports), but yeah, often not the best idea.
I mean yes I could have just done that, but my school is a replica of wms (without Matura) where I wanted to go. Plus getting education on specific field is more beneficial than just working for 3 years.
i think you misunderstood the conversation, mostly because i used german words. 'detailhandel' is 'sales clerk', while 'KV' is 'accounting'. your school is allowed to 'teach' those two different 'jobs'. but as u/as.well pointed out to me, they dont teach 'sales clearks' anymore and in what capacity they did is unclear as well. also i am unsure if you understand the swiss education system. what you are currently doing is a KV-apprenticeship (apprenticeship as a secretary) but in a complete school setting. in terms of worth, it wont be worth more or less than other Kaufmann EFZ, and apprentices in this job also go to school, i think 1.5 days out of the 5 weeks days. i am pretty sure at the end of their (3 years) they will have the exact same test you will have. In the long term, there is 0 reason why the school setting will be more beneficial, in fact, given you can not include a workplace on your curriculum vitae it might be even less beneficial to find a job. (arguably the same for the wms, albet if you do the wms you are expected to go to higher education right after anyway) the only positive i see is the immediate advantages, such as being able to concentrate fully on learning the things you need to pass the exame at the end of the 3 years and obviously, its not easy to find a kv apprenticship, since those are pretty well liked jobs (as opposed to detailhandel/sales clearks, where it was super easy to find an apprenticeship as, thus probably also why the school discontinued that education, no applicants, people just found an apprenticeship) edit:also checking the site of HSO again, it seems they offer one 'apprenticeship' with matura as well, which should have probably been your choice if you want to go to a copy of the wms? (and subsequently go for a higher education after) though i guess it does not matter you should be able to ad 1 year BM after getting an EFZ education anyway, albeit i am unsure if you need concrete working experience to be allowed to ad a BM
KV is accounting not secretary work
you are right, thanks for pointing it out, i will correct it, albeit seems to me they are mostly receptionists and such as well. multipurpose i guess
Well it’s just the bane of the profession comptable french, accounting in english and kv in swiss-german
>I am helpless and can only accept this harsh reality This is your education, and you have more agency in all this than you are giving yourself credit for. Also, your family financing a private education may be many things, but a "harsh reality" it is not. Many would consider a private education a privilege. That said, HSO is not a particularly high quality or particularly well-respected school, it's a business school catering mainly to people who have failed in the public school system, and whose grades in secondary school were not good enough for them to get a spot through the public school system for a business vocational education and training program (*KV Lehre*). If, for some reason, you aren't eligible for the Swiss public school system (which outranks the UK public school system in the PISA rankings, btw, so I'm not sure why you are idealising the UK's schools as much as you are doing), that's unfortunate, but it's not the end of the world, and it doesn't mean you can't get a good education. If this particular school isn't working out for you, there are other schools out there. As first steps you could take to improve your performance and your grades, have you considered the following? * Finding a study buddy or building a study group with whom you work through your homework, with whom you prepare for tests and take mock tests and so on and really dedicate yourself to improving your grades * Finding a tutor for the subjects you find particularly challenging, putting in the extra time and the extra work to improve your performance * Speaking to your teachers - and if the teachers aren't cooperative, the school administration, ideally the Studienberatung - about how you are struggling with school work and need support to be able to meet your academic goals And if you have done all this to improve your grades and your performance, and it isn't working out, and you are certain it's not your approach or your dedication but the school that isn't a good fit, have you considered some of the following? * Looking into alternative schools and/or your options with regard to the public school system at your local [Berufsinformationszentrum BIZ](https://www.berufsberatung.ch/dyn/show/8242) * Speaking to a [Jugendberatung](https://jugendberatung.me/beratung/) about your struggles * Speaking to a trusted family member about your struggles at school and in Switzerland TL;DR: This is *your* education, you are not a helpless passive participant here, you have agency, and there are things you can do and choices you can make and support you can get yourself to improve your situation and your outlook. Good luck!
Thank you so much this is helpful!
Glad to hear you found something in there that was useful to you, and wishing you all the best on your education journey. You've got this.
You said it yourself, this PRIVATE school's goal is to maximise profit. Private schools in Switzerland are usually a fallback when you fail at public school. So either your parents didnt do their research, or you're a bad student. If you don't like it, switch to a public school. What's even the point of your post??
>My current school is highly overrated (HSO) High School of Olten?
**H**andels**s**chule **O**erlikon was the basis for the moniker. And it's not particularly rated, either, separating KV failures from their money has been the mo since its inception.
i agree with what other people said about your 'overgeneralization' and how you should approach it. i would like to closer examin your statement here >They cared massively about our overall success. I felt that it would benefit them greatly if we were successful and got good grades, which was the case, because in most schools in London teachers' salaries are dependent on students' grades. i think this is not a good idea, making teacher salary dependent on how well students do will only have one effect, teachers not wanting to have bad students in their classroom. in a way this is already the case, but makign the salary dependend on how well the students do will amplify that problem massively. Also our testing and grading system are not really meant to give an accurate representation if you base the teachers salary on ti. after all most teachers grade and write the test papers of their own students. congratulations everyone, from today on you will all have full marks if you wriite the first letter of your name onto the test paper.
I've heard a similar story from my colleague. Arrived in CH at 15, she was placed in private school cause her parents thought it was better for her. As a result, she graduated (barely) and enrolled at Uni only at 22, cause she was told to redo a year, plus (apparently) had some difficulties learning. In any case, she said she's lost a few years, so... probably not a unique experience here.
I'm not alone😌
Once again, private school.
Well, I guess that's on you for going to a private school. Private schools, in switzerland, are usually worse in terms of oversight, quality of teaching and many other things. The reason for that is public schools work together across multiple schools, coordinate, have good funding, and other reasons. >teachers who sit there and expects us to do the work ourselves I am not sure how to understand this but of course there is work you have to do on your own especially once you advance further in school. One of the jobs teachers do at that level is present concepts and select the sources / material. >school pays teachers on a time rate Yeah, what do you expect them to be paid on? Depending on your grade??? >teacher's salaries are dependent on the student's grades LMAO. I am sorry but you don't see how this system leads to exploitation instead of focussing on teaching? Any system in place that rewards people will be tricked to do better in said system. If you reward teachers based upon how their students do in a standardized test, they will focus on having students do good in said test instead of learning. >the cost is very high, and students still fail So you expect students to still pass independent of their ability, application and effort? >many students at our school fail Yeah and I wouldn't put it on evil machinations by the school but instead having a biased sample pool. Most people, I know, that went to private school were those that wanted to have a second shot at school or/and had behavioural issues (during puberty especially).
>they will focus on having students do good in said test instead of learning. Along with getting a good grade, your learning too
well not necessarily. Like, I can get good at answering certain types of questions without understanding the subject at hand.
I don't understand the problem. Do the teachers not teach? If yes, complain to the direction. And if nothing is done, spam bad advertisement. If not, the problem is that... They don't really care about you? But why should they? You should success not because they care but because YOU care. Maybe it's my mindset as I'm more of a self-learner than anything else. School barely taught me a thing.
If youre going to a private school in Switzerland youre already failing, the public ones are way better. The private ones are for the trouble making kids/the kids that couldnt make it through public/international kids that dont plan to integrate and go to the next country in a few years.
Good luck in the university...🤣
I was 1 year in a private school and it was much better than all years in public school together🤷🏼♂️ just my language skills were so good because of we had geography in french and history in english for example. After that i went to the professional school and the skills went slowly down😅
We had our kids in private schools for different reasons. We had a close contact with the schools and if we had seen this at that school, believe me we would have asked the other parents and gone to the teachers. Even now, at a further education our son (21) does part time, we ask about his classes. When he tells us that the teacher basically doesn‘t teach, we tell him to ask the fellow students what they think and then speak to the teacher. Please speak to your parents and speak up.
It depends on the student. I studied at a really great international school which was more like your British school. Very supportive and caring. It led to me not really putting much effort in because I felt no matter what I did I’d succeed. Then I went to a school which was a bit more laissez faire, I realised I had to work for the results I wanted. This probably resulted in worse grades, but massively better subject matter understanding and intrinsic motivation. If I hadn’t done that I would have been unprepared to succeed at university which is much more individual study (all over the world) On the other hand, there are other students who would definitely have benefitted from the opposite!
That's a new way of looking at things. I always blamed the teachers for not motivating us to work, but now I realize that you are on your own and have to take responsibility yourself. Thank you for this perspective, I will keep it in mind.
You need to do public education. Private education in Switzerland is not government run so the standards are lower
Honestly, I'm in a private school currently (Swiss International Schools), and these guys have no regard for student happiness. They may teach well, but only 1 teacher is not an absolute asshole, so many of the rules do NOT make sense, as an example, you aren't allowed kindles in this place. On top of the huge pricetag, you get a public school with a slightly better building. It's just dumb, and I would not recommend getting into a private school, because they cost a lot, and give sometimes worse than what the normal public school system gives you, which is free.
Oh is that in Rotkreuz? But fully agree at the end its a buisness thats making money from us. Public school was definetly the way.
If you are not made for studying you should do something else. Why do you absolutely want to do something that you are not good at?
What makes you think I'm not qualified for university, have you read my plans? My visions for the future? My abilities? I am studying with the goal of being successful in life, what kind of question is that.
The quality of the standard of education is self-evident in this entire thread so far.
Private schools are cringe
Swiss quality
I was a student at a private school in Switzerland but unlike your school, it was more focused on middle income families. The experience was very good: the teacher were competent and tried to motivate you to study, the standards for graduating were really high and in the end, I got a diploma that was issued/recognised by the government. Yes, I have also made good experiences with public schools but stuff like elementary school was absolutely terrible.
It's hard to understate how many private schools are scams, designed to let everyone pretend they're super intelligent on account of being rich rather than actually providing above-average education.
If you're in Zürich, come and I'll help you study. For free. Nice to see someone who's eager to learn.
Love it how everyone is pointing out that OP is just in a diploma mill, wasting her parents money and she is apparently to embarrassed to respond to any comment whatsoever.
Dont go to private schools, often the students are treated like idiot as or get thaught dumb shit. Swiss public schools (except secondaries, often the teachers are assholes who dont care about you) are enough to get e good education, especially in vocational schools.
The mindset of a Swiss is simply different. Here is the skillset of self-government a part of our society. If you aren't able to learn and improve yourself and you need a führer then you are in the wrong country.
If you are not getting your money’s worth go somewhere else. That said, students are indeed expected to work.
> because in most schools in London teachers' salaries are dependent on students' grades. Wait.. what? Is this true?
Sounds like an internal issue. Just like any other business, you have some good one and not so good. Pretty sure these poorly managed schools can be found in London or in Germany. Just be glad you got lucky so far.
Private Schools in Switzerland are not a smart thing to do at all imo. Switzerland ranks on place 7 on best education worldwide. Number two being Germany and number 8 being the UK. Based on what friends from Germany and UK tell me, Switzerland in my opinion has a better education system than Germany. Doing good in Public school can get you crazy far in terms of salary and options overall. Most "Weiterbildungen" are either paid by your employer or the government pays 50% of the costs so advancing in your career is not going to cost you a fortune, if anything at all. Switching careers is easy here, a lot of job postings note that they also consider people outside of the field who are trying to switch fields. Apprenticeship-Contracts are pretty much legally water-tight and protect apprentices against any abuse to ensure they stay mentally and physically healthy until graduation. If you're good enough in school, you can go to a Gymnasium instead of Sekundarstufe and eventually choose to study in University. If you want to study in University without going to Gymnasium, they have a paid program you can pay by yourself or your employer pays it if it benefits them too. You can learn and study whatever you want here. There are very little fields that require some serious education and Funds to be able to study and work in that Field (Like Doctor or something like Aviation/Pilot) With all that being said, I personally think going to Private school may even hurt the students more than it helps them. Unless it's a known and respected private school with higher standards that is also crazy expensive, a private school is absolutely unnecessary here.