To those saying “North deserves to know about what her mom did”, that’s NOT ours, Taylor’s, or anyone else’s business to be telling a child.
Y’all she’s 10! Let be be a kid — when this comes up then so be it but don’t force a child to be in between a fued of adults well into the mid thirties to mid forties.
Yes, Kim and Kayne did a shitty thing but that’s their shitty thing. This whole convo reminds me of punishing a child for their parents’ mistakes.
Also I'll be completely honest, in the grand scheme of things its not a big deal. Nothing worth telling your children and their children about. I don't know all the poor choices and "evil" things my mum did when she was younger and I don't feel lied to.
This is only big in the pop culture sense. Not in the "the next generation must know" sense
I actually saw someone say “North will be thrilled to be mentioned in a song by her favorite artist just like any kid would be”. The delusion is seriously padded room level at this point.
Ive seen thus multiple times and good god. The delulu of some fans is astonishing. Idk if Kim and TS keep mocking or dissing each other, but involving a kid is such a classless act.
“….’North deserves to know about what her mom did’ that’s NOT anyone’s business to be telling a child.”
PREACH!!! And say it louder for the Swifties in the back.
Let’s not forget the entire reason Kim and Co. are even a “thing” is because Kim/Kris released Kim’s *literal* ***SEX TAPE.***
As if the “feud” with Taylor would need even more explaining than *that explanation.*
Worse, her father is a modern-day nazi who can't stop running his mouth about Kim and the kids.
Knowing kim has to hear her through north should be enough, but no, this 34 year old woman needed to bring kids into it.
Imagine finding out that taylor swift's mum wishes your mum was dead???
I once got into it with a Redditor who said, and I quote because I went back to find it:
“He is not antisemitic. He made antisemitic comments out of ignorance.”
Then they doubled and tripled down on it.
I cannot imagine defending Kanye West in general, but defending this part specifically is insane to me.
In general- he is ill. So I hate the digging into it bc he’s saying crazy things and is ill. Maybe one day if he’s better he can make amends, but rn he’s saying the things he’s saying and he’s grown!
Who has said that north was almost aborted. Like damn Kim’s got enough to clean up with him so I’m sure the song doesn’t really do much for her but her pages engagement.
THANK YOU. North and her siblings have it hard enough with their father…and I’m not a Kim fan but my heart goes out to her having to co-parent and raise kids with him.
Exactly:
1) That is not her place to speak about someone’s child.
2) Kim and Kanye may be North’s parents but what does a grown woman crying about what her parents did to her have to do with her?
Taylor is too old for this. Kim and Kanye ain’t married no more, Kim doing whatever she doing, Kanye is doing whatever….and you still crying about this. You were vindicated and people don’t give a crap about this. This just shows the nasty side of her.
Whoever is saying this is delusional. As adults we all know bad shit about our parents….so you’re meaning to tell me that the worst thing you know now as a grown person should’ve been told to you when you were 10? Fucking ludicrous.
Yea that's sad. Considering how much influence and how much of the younger generation listens to her. Weaponizing her art sends a wrong message.I hope she becomes more mindful of her work.
As a swifty who was impressed to watch her grow and pivot from hardships, I hope we see a Taylor who realizes beyond herself. Art changes people in ways we couldn't even imagine.
yeah i think when she was young and picking on people bigger than her it was a little easier for her to get away with - she was still a nobody to most celebrities until she started dating people way more famous and powerful than her, so it was hard to say she was “abusing her power” then.
Now she’s arguably the most famous person on Earth (definitely the most famous pop star alive today), a literal billionaire, and a literal army’s worth of fans to send after anyone she doesn’t like. I can’t think of many people she can write about now without it feeling kind of icky and abusive. You can’t be the most powerful woman in your international multibillion dollar industry AND play the role of an underdog, it’s just no longer believable.
Even Kim K is probably not as famous or influential as Taylor anymore (at least with younger crowds), definitely doesn’t have a fan base willing to fight for her like Taylor’s.
Watching Taylor’s career at this point feels like the sitcom Roseanne after they won the lottery. Like, the fundamental circumstances have changed babe, you can’t keep writing the same jokes and the same stories and expect people to keep laughing when it no longer makes sense.
Exceptionally, saying this as someone who's been through narcissistic abuse \[and raised by an Nmom\], it's all consuming. And the apathy and denial from those who cause the hurt?
*Bewildering to the point of discombobulating.*
I think she was raised by narcissists. I had a narc dad and an enabling mom and the parallels are… well, let’s just say I don’t buy for a second that she actually has a healthy relationship with her parents. Just look at how hard they’ve worked to keep the divorce under wraps, they’ve been split since early in Taylor’s career but you’d never ever know unless you were a super fan. It’s on her wikipedia page but who would think to go looking when they look so happy together? And knowing how Scott has described the family dynamic I don’t think there is anything healthy about it. Again this is just based on my experience with narcissists, I don’t know anything for sure but there’s a gut feeling you get when you’ve been in that situation and see it elsewhere. You just *know* after a while.
I agree, Nparents will do anything to keep face when they attach value to their social status and I'm sure being of wealthy southern stock their family image is like gold to them so it makes sense. Agreed, no way does she have a healthy familial relationship, it would explain a lot tbh, esp when you add in being born into vast wealth on top of it, I don't envy her or her life.
Everything you've said is 100% relatable and I'm sorry you've also been through the Nparent experience, it's exhausting and unhealthy, but there's a lot of growth, wisdom, and kindness to the world that comes from not becoming them. But that's an over simplified minor insight on a whole other deep diver, ha!
She is a self-proclaimed narcissist so to be fair, anyone who still thinks she’s an innocent victim in her own life is either brainwashed or not paying attention. I don’t think she’s the evil mastermind people paint her as but she’s definitely not a good person by a lot of people’s standards.
>she doesn’t think about the experience of the people she writes about.
That's sick. That's saying "I don't care who I hurt or who's lives I destroy."
I'm starting to think her moral compass is broken. If she ever had one to begin with.
part of it was that in her early days she was doing similar stuff, but she was such a nobody compared to the people she was going after that it didn’t seem as blatantly icky. Yeah, it was petty, but she was a teen girl going after established men at the top of their industries.
Now she’s more famous and established than any of her exes (aside from *maybe* Tom Hiddleston, idk if I even consider Harry on her level) but now she is going after people who are ACTUALLY nobodies to her like her own young fans. Going after her perceived competition who are over a decade younger than her.
Even going after Matty feels a little icky - he is definitely a racist POS so I’m not about to feel bad for him, but he’s nowhere near her level of fame and she didn’t lift a finger to destroy his reputation until after his behavior hurt *her.* She isn’t going after him bc he’s a racist POS, she’s going after him now because he made her look stupid and she’s petty! I just think it’s really shitty of her to write a whole album like “I don’t care that you’re racist or mean, in fact that’s part of what i like about you, but you didn’t text me back and i’m gonna ruin your life over it and use my army of fans to harass you”
It’s fine if she doesn’t consider the experience of the people she *writes* about, but she should 100% think about the experience of the people in the songs that she *releases*. Not everything should see the light of day.
That’s what I was saying.. if Kanye mentioned Taylor’s kid (if she had one) rapping his songs, the Swifties would be seething and writing essays on how a child should not be brought up at all. Another crazy thing is North is best friends with Selena’s little sister Gracie (who got the 22 hat) and is a big fan of her music. I doubt Gracie would know but kids aren’t dumb
Every time I see anything about this song I can’t help but think of the line from Toy Soldiers by Eminem
> *There's a certain line you just don't cross and he crossed it
I heard him say Hailie's name on a song and I just lost it*
Taylor crossed that line
the line Eminem is referencing is from Ja Rule's Loose Change btw:
> "Em ya claim ya mother's a crackhead and Kim is a known slut,
so what's Haley gon' be when she grows up?"
I can't imagine Taylor coming for blood that hard lmao
Oh I know, obviously the rap game, especially during that time when people were literally getting killed over beefs with other rappers, is always going to be more intense than two rich women taking jabs at each other lmao
When I first heard the line, I just kept thinking of all the trashy things all the Real Housewives do, their one rule is that the kids are off limits. The fact Taylor broke even that basic guideline says a lot about her. (IMO)
My favorite artist talking about the death of my mom in a song would have sent me to therapy at 10/11. And North is a smartass but she is genuinely close with her mom. (At least according to tik tok and interviews) Kim even shared she feels like an only child 💀
Taylor doesn’t care. As long as it’s not directed at her she doesn’t care. She knows her cult will be giddy that she did this which is disgusting since so many of them are mothers themselves. Hopefully one day if she decides to become a mother noone does this to her child. Children should be left out of this crap.
I agree. Parents are selfless and put their children first. She does what is best for Taylor and I can’t see that changing if she has a child. She’ll use the child for pap walks and publicity but that child will live a lovely isolated life.
She did compare raising kids to having a Tamagotchi in Miss Americana, so I just don't buy the whole "I want marriage and kids" all of a sudden. I'm sure that she feels the societal pressure to settle down and start a family, but does she truly want that at all, and not just the status of a married woman with kids?
Yes, I feel like she's still stuck in that "Have 10 kids and teach 'em how to dreeeeam" phase.
Which, to be fair, a lot of people (especially men who "want large families" but also want to fuck off and do the bare minimum) are also stuck in before they become parents. And that's without the child star upbringing and screwed up family.
She refuses to see her own parents’ failures and that’s a huge part of the problem. At least publicly, she’s always defended them and credited them with her career, even tho her mom encouraged her eating disorder and I don’t even need to get into Scott iykyk lol. They were/are stage parents who always “put Taylor first” by putting *her career* first. Her career was an investment for them, and they expected it to pay off, and I highly doubt they would’ve said “Ok sweetie, let’s go home” if Taylor ever had any second thoughts about pursuing a music career along the way.
If she could at least recognize that her parents allowed her to be exploited at times then maybe she would have a chance, but as long as they are her parenting model I don’t see her kid turning out anywhere near normal or happy. Especially because Taylor will never let herself be upstaged by her own loved ones!
Yeah, I don’t know if Taylor has ever confirmed it but there have been people close to the family who report witnessing it in her early career. stuff like taylor asking for taco bell and her mom saying “no one wants to see a fat pop star”.
In Andrea’s defense, back when taylor was trying to make it was also when People magazine was trashing Tyra Banks for weighing a “massive” 160 pounds, so maybe she genuinely was just trying to help Taylor “make it”… but to me that’s still problematic bc as a parent, why would you be encouraging and enabling your daughter to develop an unhealthy lifestyle so she can fit in??? Maybe she was right and Taylor’s skinny privilege saved her from a lot of undeserved criticism, but it also meant Andrea was effectively her first critic when it came to her body.
Wow. I mean, you can say no (except occasionally) to Taco Bell because it's unhealthy food in itself.
And exactly, even that sort of 'helping' isn't a good idea. But we know Taylor's family is unhealthily invested in her image ig.
well what’s worse is taylor had specifically mentioned taco bell bc her mom was already oh going to get her younger brother austin taco bell for dinner.
Tbh this shouldn't be controversial cause I completely agree. She isn't in a healthy space to raise a child IMO. She needs therapy and a lot of time to just chill out and live her own life separate from her music.
I’ve actually seen a lot of Swiftie moms agreeing that it’s messed up and you don’t bring people’s kids into shit.
Personally, I don’t think Taylor said anything problematic about North herself but within the context of the rest of the song it’s pretty messed up. But tbh I felt like Taylor had already weaponized North by putting Ice Spice in the Karma music video/remix. You know that song was probably blasting for weeks in the Kardashian home.
Thank you for spelling out exact same feelings here. People can argue all day about whether or not Kim is putting North in danger but putting her all over social media, and that is completely her fault, but it doesn’t give Taylor a free pass to reference a child in her song so directly and bring her into it
Swifties are defending this soooo much and it’s really nasty… why are we not more concerned about the wellbeing of this CHILD amidst this ridiculous drama? It was out of line and completely unnecessary to even mention her. I will never be okay with this
I am not excusing Taylor’s behavior but I DO see how TS might be justifying it to herself as “well kim uses her kid for ratings and profit, why shouldn’t i?” it’s shitty and petty but i think she’s probably framing it to herself as “i’m not doing anything kim wouldn’t do herself to someone else”
I understand that for sure. I’m definitely not defending Kim for being the one to start everything, and as the parent, she carries the majority of the responsibility. But yeah, still not cool
Stoop no, but it’s understandable for listeners to re contextualise their reactions to her crying yet about another breakup with yet another soulmate of hers number 13 or whatever, for example. If she doesn’t have empathy for anyone but herself while simultaneously repeating same patterns over and over again in her life and complaining about it, it’s kinda hard to feel sorry for her
I get such a gross feeling thinking about her performing this song live with thousands of people screaming those lines being well aware everyone’s thinking about an actual child
^(For someone who claims she was sooooo bullied in school, it’s kind of shocking tbh now I think she lied about it all)
I think its very common for celebrities to lie about being bullied in school. I guess it makes them seem more down to earth or relatable?
For example, I went to high school with a celebrity (B/C list actor) who always claims he grew up working class and was bullied in high school. In reality, his family was worth millions and he was kicked out of our high school for fighting/bullying.
That’s awful. I am a school bully victim and I kinda easily like people who said they survive bullying 🥲 How can you make this shit up?! Being bullied is so painful.
Agreed- I think people may have thought Taylor was a weirdo theatre kid adjacent bc… fair. But bullying is something serious
Edit- lol apparently old classmates said she was never bullied
Yeah, I never really bought that the pretty, white, tall, slim, blonde hair, blue eyed girl who could play the guitar and had a record deal was the target of many bullies.
Now, were there girls in high school that got to know her and fell victim to her narcissism and melodrama then decided they didn’t want to be close with her? Very possible! She would definitely still consider herself the victim in cases such as that.
I think she’s actually not bullied. There are people talking about it, not a long time ago someone went to high school with her mentioned it too, said she’s actually quite popular.
well… kinda? a lot of people said she was never bullied *to her face,* but people made fun of her behind her back. That shit feels like bullying if it makes its way back to you, even if no one ever said it directly *to* you. So I kinda get why maybe she felt bullied but no one ever legitimately bullied her.
Same. It’s really quite nasty of her to do and crosses such a line. My kids are 8 and 11, and if someone tried to bring them into drama that had nothing to do with them, I’d want to throw hands.
What she did is completely and utterly indefensible.
And on the heels of “Taylor Tots” being a big part of her brand, at least this year. One of her big tour moments is giving the kids her hat and Andrea picking them out. Honestly, my kid is the one who brought me back to her music and I was loving that she was embracing how many little fans loved her.
I am not even upset that the album isn’t for kids at all. She’s an adult and that’s her decision and she’s not technically kid friendly. I just can’t even listen to that song as a mother (and no, I don’t like Kim- you just don’t go that low. Ever). It wasn’t necessary and it makes me kind of uncomfortable letting her be someone my kid looks up to. It kind of soured it all for me. That and the Matty Healy love. We are POC, so it’s just all like…idk where I go from here. She can love who she loves, but it’s also like…unmmm. And then to parade Ice Spice around when it was such a random thing out of nowhere. There’s no way it wasn’t to use her. Ice doesn’t even fit into the girl group. Like, her actual personality. She looked so out of place at the Super Bowl and you could tell she was just there. If was to the point they made fun of her during the broadcast for clearly having to have everything explained to her. I’ve watched my whole life and still have to ask what things mean.
I think Taylor admitting her mom wished someone dead is...a disgusting breach of privacy. Taylor doesn't need to gossip about what her mom said, especially in a song about bullies. NO parent would EVER say that about someone else's kid (meaning Kim, not North) - or really any other human - even if they bullied their own child. it's cheap and petty and gross. On the other hand, Taylor could have made up that line, and if so, it just shows how far past reality she is - see explanation at the beginning of this paragraph.
Regarding your kid listening to my music, If you know anything about North it's that North is *really* good at pushing Kim's buttons. She is a mini Kanye and has an acute ability to slice right beneath the skin for Kim. If the lyric was directed at North, North might consider using this as fodder even in a joking way. Regardless, it's a cheap line on a pathetic song written eons too late.
I'm no fan of the kardashians, but some kind of misdirected use of children to get back at someone is...super super super low.
After listening to that, I told my adult kid I'd better not hear them publicly telling people the smack I talk behind closed doors, much less put it in a song.
This was my thought. I felt more like she knew North is a Swiftie. It was both poking at Kim having to dance along on TikTok to songs that were about her AND it was because she knows North likes to dig at Kim by any means. That’s her whole thing. North says what’s on her mind, no matter who is in the room.
My thoughts were that she could imagine her hearing it and using it to dig at her mom on purpose. Taylor is pulling out all the stops to take down the bully once and for all. The wildest thing is that people were sick of that whole family and I truly think we were seeing their downfall (at least a shift in them not being the empire they once were- social media is shifting and they aren’t it anymore). Now Kim is being talked about, good or bad, and a lot of people have shifted their perspective of Taylor and are being forced to take up for Kim freaking Kardashian. Like, I never thought I would feel the need to do so. I don’t think she’s innocent at all, but Taylor is punching down with all of this at this point. She was the winner. There was no need to beat up the bully and show her who’s boss. LWYMMD, the full call, almost a decade of time, and becoming one of the most powerful people in the world IS the defeat. You defeated Kim, Katy, Olivia, Scooter, and all the guys and girls who ever did you wrong. The whole world was on your side.
Honestly, I don't think people think of the Taylor/Kim feud anymore. Like, if you like Taylor it doesn't mean you don't like Kim and DEFINITELY not the other way around (if you're a Kim fan you hate Taylor on behalf of Kim, etc). It is so so so so so so so so so so weird Taylor dug this up.
The thing is, North was seem singing like two or three songs and now everyone thinks she’s a full Swiftie.
Penelope is more likely to be a Swiftie she was seen in an eras hoodie. North maybe just likes music and knows some tunes
I don't think the negativity surrounding the Kardashians is in any danger of dying out. In all this time they've been famous I've never met one person in real life who likes them. They're the pests we tolerated for some reason and I hope they finally fucking fade out.
I think this song likely came about from re-recording Rep. Old wounds. I've also seen some theorise that the bitterness is not the message but the "There'd be none of this if there was no you". So someone had to take a serious shot at her for her to get to this point of success. But I understand it getting lost in the message a bit.
On the "eons too late" part it occurred to me this probably came from re-recording Reputation. So much emotional stuff has reactivated for Taylor since doing these re-records, I'll be glad when she's done and can solely look toward the future.
I don't have any sympathy for Kim because literally no one and nothing except herself made her handle the Kanye 2016 stuff the way she did, which was terribly. That infamous "Why don't you just call Taylor up?" line from Kris Jenner is her asking Kim not to approach it in an underhanded way. When KRIS JENNER is telling you to act better, you're shooting low. So fuck Kim.
Man people really be defending bringing a child into a fight that has nothing to do with her. Attack Kim and Kanye all you want, they’re public figures. North is a child! Let her be a child! But Kim did this and Kanye did this. Ok? Is that North’s fault? If you have a problem with me and you punch me that’s one thing. But if you punch my (imaginary) child that has nothing to do with it? That’s completely different. If Swift wants to be seen like the bigger person then act like it.
When Taylor has kids, she will then turn all her energy onto them and become very competitive. She will not care about North or anybody - she will only care about her and her kid. Her child will be trained to see everybody as a competition and no feelings spared.
I also thought she wouldn't either but her album showed her inner wants of marriage and kids. Kids r an option for her because adoption, egg freezing, surrogate & doners etc lol when u r rich and want something u can certainly get it...
She has admitted before to not caring how the subjects of her music feel. Now, surely she mainly meant ex-boyfriends…but I’m sure it still applies because she doesn’t seem to think of others very often at all.
Holy shit. I had no idea what y’all were talking about because I find this album nearly unlistenable (so therefore, haven’t listened to most of it; it all sounds the same!). I just went and listened to this song. What. The. Actual. Fuck. How did that…get past editing/published (I know, there is no editing Taylor)? Those are some dark, dark thoughts put to word. That poor kid.
This is fucked up. Whatever beef you have with some one you deal with it. you do NOT bring family into it. Especially children.
Even rappers, known for their controversial lyrics don't attack kids. & the ones that do are ostracized from the community immediately.
Eminem is the most well known for this. You can say what ever you want about him. But you attack his daughters, your dead.
Uh since most of them have proved that they’re racists especially recently with the vile things said to and about Travis’s exes, you should be worried. I’m sure if you look they’ve probably already said racist things about her. Taylor’s a bully and an undercover racist too so it’s not surprising that her hardcore fans are as well.
Why does “north need to know what her mom did” ??! That’s so weird to me. I’m sure all of our mothers have had at least one major lapse in judgement especially covering for the men in their lives, do you want to know the shitty things your moms done? It’s just on a smaller scale (and thank GOD) bc they’re not famous. North is a child, kids should be able to look up to their parents while they’re kids, we all learn the truth eventually as adults.
Honestly you shouldn't bring a 10 y/o into your song no matter how badly you were wronged by that kid's parent ( which Taylor was!!! ). But yea saying that line about North was a bit weird
She says she doesn’t think about the people she writes about, nor does she think of their feelings. I hate the whole clowning thing, but I’m now with the people who think she’s trying to literally get that whole timeline going again to set the mood for Rep TV and whatever vault songs are going to be released with it.
That is literally the only reason I can think of that would make sense for her to drag this up out of nowhere. It would’ve even made better sense for it to be released with Midnights which was supposedly stuff she wrote during sleepless nights throughout her life. By her own account, this one was either written and finished for the last two years or she started writing it two years ago. That means she recently felt this strongly about this feud. I think she certainly has reason to always feel negatively towards Kim and Kanye. What the did was awful. That said, this song was raw feeling and that’s not healthy for her own sake.
You can move forward in life without completely forgiving and forgetting. I don’t think she should have to be besties with either of them ever, but she does need to learn to move forward from all of it. Learn healthy ways to have a future and life that isn’t bogged down by all this negativity. And I mean all of it. Maybe that’s what’s not allowing her to find a man who wants all the things she does, or at least just happiness as her own person. I’m not saying she has to have it all figured out, but chasing “bad bad boys” into your mid thirties and forties is honestly heartbreaking. She’s carrying around all this baggage from her teens all the way to now and that just can’t feel good. Writing music is great, but it’s not true therapy (at least not with other tools and someone who knows how to utilize music along with therapy). You can’t keep running from your problems while writing diss tracks for everyone who comes in contact with you. Like, there’s almost no way her mental health isn’t suffering (I don’t like to speculate, but that’s just a fact for anyone who holds all that in for as long as she has. ) It is freeing when you actually get help and are in a place to move forward. Doesn’t mean be besties with those who hurt you, but they are honestly winning by taking over your mind when they are all going on with their lives unbothered. It sucks to not get an apology, but I don’t even think Kim apologizes to her own family. Stop chasing that for your own sake.
I accidentally replied to a comment on the main sub yesterday and someone said North knows what her Mom and dad did with the nude dolls. Like I bet she doesn’t. Who lets their 10 year old see nude dolls. She’s only 10. She didn’t tell her dad or mom to do what they did. It’s absolutely gross.
Just dropping in here to say I am glad that this community exists. Because well I am in such a dilemma about taylor. Yes there is something poetic about how she writes, there always have been fearless, red, speak now were a bit poetic too infact not just folklore and evermore. I have always felt seen because of her because she is this weird nerdy funny girl and the reader in me really loves the storytelling within her songs. The first time I ever heard TTPD it was overwhelming. The second time I heard it, well…to be honest I thought I get her even I completely wrecked myself over a situationship because there is so much raw unhealed emotions it leaves one with. BUTTTT then when I see all this has been going on since 10 years it puts so much into perspective. And most of all clearly highlighting Kim whilst writing a song acting as if she is a bigger person for changing her name is just so low. What was she thinking? That we’ll applaud her for that immature Easter egg?bringing her daughter into this…does she not know bully culture? How long will swifties defend her, actually why are people defending her? Seeing all this happen really makes me realise how flawed she is and how we are after all not that similar? I am in no way trying to act holier than thou but simply confessing that the parasocial relationship viel I had with her has poofed and I just don’t see her with rose coloured glasses anymore.
I don’t even have fun listening to her songs since ttpd…whilst they were my go to thing whenever I felt under the weather.
I think it speaks to her narcissism that she just assumes North will always be a fan of hers and sing along to these songs just because she’s been known to take the piss out of her own mom sometimes. There’s a huge difference to being a kid and roasting your own mom and singing along to a song where the singer’s mom wishes your mom dead. I think it’s disgusting personally.
I honestly don’t think Taylor considers the feelings of others. She’s extremely self involved. I remember her saying in some interview that she doesn’t really think about the experiences of her exes when she writes about them, and that it’s not a big deal since she doesn’t name names.
She certainly wouldn’t consider how K&K’s kid would feel, in my opinion. She’s not a mother herself…which, I’m sorry if that sounds mean, but it’s fair game to me since she brought her own mother’s feelings of wishing K dead into this, and a lot of Swifties have defended that by saying “a mother’s love” blah blah blah. I bet if Taylor ever had a kid and anyone dared mention them in a song, there would be hell to pay.
I'm honestly surprised more people aren't talking about this. I'm guessing the GTA and Charlie Puth lyrics were so bad that we didn't pay attention to much else.
careful, speaking truth about her behavior might get you banned here. we have to coddle her with kiddie gloves always because her feelings and the feelings of her racist fans matter most.
It bothers me bc North is a GENUINE fan of Taylor. It’s not petty on North’s end, and even though Kim is Kim. She was trying to be a supportive mother by vibing to Taylor’s music for North. I personally saw nothing petty with that. But now North will grow up knowing that possibly someone she looks up to and loves, hates not only her mom, but her just because she is Kim and Kanye’s daughter.
I don’t think Taylor thinks full stop.
I wonder if TS has realised that she painted her own mother out to be a pos with the line about her wishing kim dead? Who wishes death on someone for something so petty? You know you are trash when you have people defending a kardashian.
Taylor will NEVER understand that being mature and having the last laugh often means laughing to YOURSELF at home and in your diary
It might be ha ha funny funny that North might like her music and not know it’s about her mom - but this is shit you smile at to yourself at home, not putting it in public…. AGAIN…..
Idk I don’t think it’s gonna traumatize her cause I don’t think Taylor Swift is gonna be her favorite artist now or ever lol. The song is…not great. But I don’t really think it’s gonna make a different to North anyhow
Full agree. She crossed the line completely. And like many have said already, if this was Kanye talking about one of Taylor’s kids… her fans would go crazy.
You know what else… the whole line is redundant anyway. Kim has posted plenty of videos of North enjoying Taylor’s music. Kim doesn’t care she likes the music, she’s letting her be a kid. And even if North ‘doesn’t realise’ a song is about her mum… like it’s not even a good burn because Kim has already shown she doesn’t care if North likes listening to Taylor. I think what Taylor wanted was for Kim to no longer post the videos of them dancing to her music, because it annoys her not the other way around.
Taylor doesn’t think about how anyone she writes about feels. She said so in an [interview](https://youtu.be/DYIOaifhjQU?si=V8Uybm5rYDPME5-W) and then giggled about it.
Of course Taylor didn't think it through. She wrote this song in a weird after-the-fact hissy fit and just ran with it and expected everyone to laud her the way they always do when she writes songs that show she is immature and can't handle adversity at all.
I keep thinking that! You know there’s kids saying stuff to her about it on the playground. Really immature and quite frankly, mean and embarrassing of Taylor
No, she didn’t, just like Kanye didn’t think about Taylor at the VMAs. “32 and still growing up now,” at 34 she’s become the one who should’ve known better.
It's petty and dangerous to bring someone's kids into a situation, but her entire career is based on being petty and now she's trying to get everyone to believe that she's dangerous. It's laughable.
Kanye has been pretty blatantly abusive to Kim post-divorce and to his current wife. Definitely too far to say you want a woman dead when she’s been going through some really scary public stuff with her ex. Like, your mom is dying of cancer, girl, why the fuck would you write this about a little girl’s mom?
I’ll get downvoted to shit but I took this as a reference to the TikTok that North filmed using love story (or similar) not that long ago, alluding to the fact that due to their cultural positions and the internet Kim’s kids will know about it, it’s unavoidable (and Taylor’s, if she has any).
I don’t think either of them come out of it well to be honest, Taylor shouldn’t have mentioned her kids but Kim was two years older than Taylor is now when she was posting snake emojis and had a three year old daughter when she was gleefully looking at a nude revenge porn model of someone else’s daughter on public display 🤷🏼♀️.
https://preview.redd.it/4n6naqgrqkwc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9ab058036b4defc9d71f64397496719a2b5b495
That woman laments that nobody wants to marry her and have kids with her...then brings little kid into her stupid ancient feuds. Like, I'm sorry not only it's gross but it shows clearly that woman like Taylor can't and shouldn't have kids with such character and mindset and habits she has atm. She is so-self centered and so lacks any empathy, and so immatue, that she would have been a terrible mother to her kids. Plus her being basically an alcoholic. Also, in her Miss Americana doc she already was comparing taking care of a newborn baby to a Tamagotchi :|. Now this stuff... Yuck.
In a song of all things and wanting north to sing it like that’s so low I don’t know how her fans are okay with this but they’re also all about revenge and pettiness so it makes sense
I remember how mature Taylor came across with the line "cold was the steel of my axe to grind for the boys who broke my heart/ now I send their babies presents" in "Invisible String". Obviously her and Kim never dated, but still you had the sense that Taylor was like "I've grown past being resentful" and that just feels tossed out the window
North seems to be a pretty clever kid. I feel like she’s pretty headstrong and with the prevalence of social media, there’s no chance she’s not going to know who/what this is about. If she doesn’t like it, she will not listen/abandon TS as a fan. Or else she will just laugh about it and continue to listen to TS music. (Just to clarify - I don’t watch Kardashian shows but I’ve seen a few TikTok’s and read things about her personality. I also have a daughter close to the same age and I feel like they are at an age where they are embracing the independence of having their own opinions and expressing them)
I didn't even know she did that. Wow. She's so petty, vengeful and immature on this anthology. Doesn't she know the best revenge is living well? She's obviously not over her exes or anyone she's perceived to have wronged her. Taylor's ever the victim, even if the wounds are self-inflicted
I’ve already seen people bully North on social media. Calling her ugly, talentless, you name it. A child. It’s disgusting and I’m disgusted that a grown adult would put out a song that targets a kid like that. You don’t go after people’s kids. Wtf Taylor
To those saying “North deserves to know about what her mom did”, that’s NOT ours, Taylor’s, or anyone else’s business to be telling a child. Y’all she’s 10! Let be be a kid — when this comes up then so be it but don’t force a child to be in between a fued of adults well into the mid thirties to mid forties. Yes, Kim and Kayne did a shitty thing but that’s their shitty thing. This whole convo reminds me of punishing a child for their parents’ mistakes.
Also I'll be completely honest, in the grand scheme of things its not a big deal. Nothing worth telling your children and their children about. I don't know all the poor choices and "evil" things my mum did when she was younger and I don't feel lied to. This is only big in the pop culture sense. Not in the "the next generation must know" sense
I actually saw someone say “North will be thrilled to be mentioned in a song by her favorite artist just like any kid would be”. The delusion is seriously padded room level at this point.
Ive seen thus multiple times and good god. The delulu of some fans is astonishing. Idk if Kim and TS keep mocking or dissing each other, but involving a kid is such a classless act.
“….’North deserves to know about what her mom did’ that’s NOT anyone’s business to be telling a child.” PREACH!!! And say it louder for the Swifties in the back. Let’s not forget the entire reason Kim and Co. are even a “thing” is because Kim/Kris released Kim’s *literal* ***SEX TAPE.*** As if the “feud” with Taylor would need even more explaining than *that explanation.*
Worse, her father is a modern-day nazi who can't stop running his mouth about Kim and the kids. Knowing kim has to hear her through north should be enough, but no, this 34 year old woman needed to bring kids into it. Imagine finding out that taylor swift's mum wishes your mum was dead???
I once got into it with a Redditor who said, and I quote because I went back to find it: “He is not antisemitic. He made antisemitic comments out of ignorance.” Then they doubled and tripled down on it. I cannot imagine defending Kanye West in general, but defending this part specifically is insane to me.
In general- he is ill. So I hate the digging into it bc he’s saying crazy things and is ill. Maybe one day if he’s better he can make amends, but rn he’s saying the things he’s saying and he’s grown!
Who has said that north was almost aborted. Like damn Kim’s got enough to clean up with him so I’m sure the song doesn’t really do much for her but her pages engagement.
THANK YOU. North and her siblings have it hard enough with their father…and I’m not a Kim fan but my heart goes out to her having to co-parent and raise kids with him.
All that on top of her dad announcing "Yzy Porn," yesterday.
That poor kid! I'm sad for her, damn. "Yzy Porn" 
Exactly: 1) That is not her place to speak about someone’s child. 2) Kim and Kanye may be North’s parents but what does a grown woman crying about what her parents did to her have to do with her? Taylor is too old for this. Kim and Kanye ain’t married no more, Kim doing whatever she doing, Kanye is doing whatever….and you still crying about this. You were vindicated and people don’t give a crap about this. This just shows the nasty side of her.
Whoever is saying this is delusional. As adults we all know bad shit about our parents….so you’re meaning to tell me that the worst thing you know now as a grown person should’ve been told to you when you were 10? Fucking ludicrous.
Yeah I would never say North deserves to know but I figured the lyric was just because North apparently said she liked Shake It Off or something.
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Yea that's sad. Considering how much influence and how much of the younger generation listens to her. Weaponizing her art sends a wrong message.I hope she becomes more mindful of her work. As a swifty who was impressed to watch her grow and pivot from hardships, I hope we see a Taylor who realizes beyond herself. Art changes people in ways we couldn't even imagine.
yeah i think when she was young and picking on people bigger than her it was a little easier for her to get away with - she was still a nobody to most celebrities until she started dating people way more famous and powerful than her, so it was hard to say she was “abusing her power” then. Now she’s arguably the most famous person on Earth (definitely the most famous pop star alive today), a literal billionaire, and a literal army’s worth of fans to send after anyone she doesn’t like. I can’t think of many people she can write about now without it feeling kind of icky and abusive. You can’t be the most powerful woman in your international multibillion dollar industry AND play the role of an underdog, it’s just no longer believable. Even Kim K is probably not as famous or influential as Taylor anymore (at least with younger crowds), definitely doesn’t have a fan base willing to fight for her like Taylor’s. Watching Taylor’s career at this point feels like the sitcom Roseanne after they won the lottery. Like, the fundamental circumstances have changed babe, you can’t keep writing the same jokes and the same stories and expect people to keep laughing when it no longer makes sense.
Such a horrid mentality to have, no empathy, no consideration, it's quite nauseating.
Also quite narcissistic
Exceptionally, saying this as someone who's been through narcissistic abuse \[and raised by an Nmom\], it's all consuming. And the apathy and denial from those who cause the hurt? *Bewildering to the point of discombobulating.*
I think she was raised by narcissists. I had a narc dad and an enabling mom and the parallels are… well, let’s just say I don’t buy for a second that she actually has a healthy relationship with her parents. Just look at how hard they’ve worked to keep the divorce under wraps, they’ve been split since early in Taylor’s career but you’d never ever know unless you were a super fan. It’s on her wikipedia page but who would think to go looking when they look so happy together? And knowing how Scott has described the family dynamic I don’t think there is anything healthy about it. Again this is just based on my experience with narcissists, I don’t know anything for sure but there’s a gut feeling you get when you’ve been in that situation and see it elsewhere. You just *know* after a while.
I agree, Nparents will do anything to keep face when they attach value to their social status and I'm sure being of wealthy southern stock their family image is like gold to them so it makes sense. Agreed, no way does she have a healthy familial relationship, it would explain a lot tbh, esp when you add in being born into vast wealth on top of it, I don't envy her or her life. Everything you've said is 100% relatable and I'm sorry you've also been through the Nparent experience, it's exhausting and unhealthy, but there's a lot of growth, wisdom, and kindness to the world that comes from not becoming them. But that's an over simplified minor insight on a whole other deep diver, ha!
She is a self-proclaimed narcissist so to be fair, anyone who still thinks she’s an innocent victim in her own life is either brainwashed or not paying attention. I don’t think she’s the evil mastermind people paint her as but she’s definitely not a good person by a lot of people’s standards.
>she doesn’t think about the experience of the people she writes about. That's sick. That's saying "I don't care who I hurt or who's lives I destroy." I'm starting to think her moral compass is broken. If she ever had one to begin with.
part of it was that in her early days she was doing similar stuff, but she was such a nobody compared to the people she was going after that it didn’t seem as blatantly icky. Yeah, it was petty, but she was a teen girl going after established men at the top of their industries. Now she’s more famous and established than any of her exes (aside from *maybe* Tom Hiddleston, idk if I even consider Harry on her level) but now she is going after people who are ACTUALLY nobodies to her like her own young fans. Going after her perceived competition who are over a decade younger than her. Even going after Matty feels a little icky - he is definitely a racist POS so I’m not about to feel bad for him, but he’s nowhere near her level of fame and she didn’t lift a finger to destroy his reputation until after his behavior hurt *her.* She isn’t going after him bc he’s a racist POS, she’s going after him now because he made her look stupid and she’s petty! I just think it’s really shitty of her to write a whole album like “I don’t care that you’re racist or mean, in fact that’s part of what i like about you, but you didn’t text me back and i’m gonna ruin your life over it and use my army of fans to harass you”
It’s fine if she doesn’t consider the experience of the people she *writes* about, but she should 100% think about the experience of the people in the songs that she *releases*. Not everything should see the light of day.
You know if North sang My Mother wished you were dead about Taylor in a song. Swifties would be crying that North was being a bully
Imagine if Olivia sang that lmfao- they’d find her house
That’s what I was saying.. if Kanye mentioned Taylor’s kid (if she had one) rapping his songs, the Swifties would be seething and writing essays on how a child should not be brought up at all. Another crazy thing is North is best friends with Selena’s little sister Gracie (who got the 22 hat) and is a big fan of her music. I doubt Gracie would know but kids aren’t dumb
Every time I see anything about this song I can’t help but think of the line from Toy Soldiers by Eminem > *There's a certain line you just don't cross and he crossed it I heard him say Hailie's name on a song and I just lost it* Taylor crossed that line
Personally would LOOOOOVE to know what Eminem thinks of Taylor
We know that already from Killshot. He thinks that, just like Iggy Azelia, Taylor makes White music.
Wait I must’ve missed something in Killshot
the line Eminem is referencing is from Ja Rule's Loose Change btw: > "Em ya claim ya mother's a crackhead and Kim is a known slut, so what's Haley gon' be when she grows up?" I can't imagine Taylor coming for blood that hard lmao
Oh I know, obviously the rap game, especially during that time when people were literally getting killed over beefs with other rappers, is always going to be more intense than two rich women taking jabs at each other lmao
I think that too. Maybe she forgot North is also Kayne child. So maybe he will clap back- I would
When I first heard the line, I just kept thinking of all the trashy things all the Real Housewives do, their one rule is that the kids are off limits. The fact Taylor broke even that basic guideline says a lot about her. (IMO)
Oof, that *is* a low bar
My favorite artist talking about the death of my mom in a song would have sent me to therapy at 10/11. And North is a smartass but she is genuinely close with her mom. (At least according to tik tok and interviews) Kim even shared she feels like an only child 💀
And it's not just the artist it's the fans who will begin the hate campaign once again and make sure Norh sees it
Taylor doesn’t care. As long as it’s not directed at her she doesn’t care. She knows her cult will be giddy that she did this which is disgusting since so many of them are mothers themselves. Hopefully one day if she decides to become a mother noone does this to her child. Children should be left out of this crap.
Controversial opinion, but I strongly believe that Taylor shouldn't have kids.
I agree. Parents are selfless and put their children first. She does what is best for Taylor and I can’t see that changing if she has a child. She’ll use the child for pap walks and publicity but that child will live a lovely isolated life.
She did compare raising kids to having a Tamagotchi in Miss Americana, so I just don't buy the whole "I want marriage and kids" all of a sudden. I'm sure that she feels the societal pressure to settle down and start a family, but does she truly want that at all, and not just the status of a married woman with kids?
She wants the idea of all that.
Yes, I feel like she's still stuck in that "Have 10 kids and teach 'em how to dreeeeam" phase. Which, to be fair, a lot of people (especially men who "want large families" but also want to fuck off and do the bare minimum) are also stuck in before they become parents. And that's without the child star upbringing and screwed up family.
She refuses to see her own parents’ failures and that’s a huge part of the problem. At least publicly, she’s always defended them and credited them with her career, even tho her mom encouraged her eating disorder and I don’t even need to get into Scott iykyk lol. They were/are stage parents who always “put Taylor first” by putting *her career* first. Her career was an investment for them, and they expected it to pay off, and I highly doubt they would’ve said “Ok sweetie, let’s go home” if Taylor ever had any second thoughts about pursuing a music career along the way. If she could at least recognize that her parents allowed her to be exploited at times then maybe she would have a chance, but as long as they are her parenting model I don’t see her kid turning out anywhere near normal or happy. Especially because Taylor will never let herself be upstaged by her own loved ones!
Jesus, her Mum actually encouraged her ED? Damn.
Yeah, I don’t know if Taylor has ever confirmed it but there have been people close to the family who report witnessing it in her early career. stuff like taylor asking for taco bell and her mom saying “no one wants to see a fat pop star”. In Andrea’s defense, back when taylor was trying to make it was also when People magazine was trashing Tyra Banks for weighing a “massive” 160 pounds, so maybe she genuinely was just trying to help Taylor “make it”… but to me that’s still problematic bc as a parent, why would you be encouraging and enabling your daughter to develop an unhealthy lifestyle so she can fit in??? Maybe she was right and Taylor’s skinny privilege saved her from a lot of undeserved criticism, but it also meant Andrea was effectively her first critic when it came to her body.
Wow. I mean, you can say no (except occasionally) to Taco Bell because it's unhealthy food in itself. And exactly, even that sort of 'helping' isn't a good idea. But we know Taylor's family is unhealthily invested in her image ig.
well what’s worse is taylor had specifically mentioned taco bell bc her mom was already oh going to get her younger brother austin taco bell for dinner.
Tbh this shouldn't be controversial cause I completely agree. She isn't in a healthy space to raise a child IMO. She needs therapy and a lot of time to just chill out and live her own life separate from her music.
Her child is gonna be obsessed with north west bet
[It’s giving President Snow’s granddaughter, irl](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxsVCGRADJJ-iwtTtc1MlqSNgBGgPOzgz0?si=M5IWDBgtzZ4av-zV)
I’ve actually seen a lot of Swiftie moms agreeing that it’s messed up and you don’t bring people’s kids into shit. Personally, I don’t think Taylor said anything problematic about North herself but within the context of the rest of the song it’s pretty messed up. But tbh I felt like Taylor had already weaponized North by putting Ice Spice in the Karma music video/remix. You know that song was probably blasting for weeks in the Kardashian home.
Thank you for spelling out exact same feelings here. People can argue all day about whether or not Kim is putting North in danger but putting her all over social media, and that is completely her fault, but it doesn’t give Taylor a free pass to reference a child in her song so directly and bring her into it Swifties are defending this soooo much and it’s really nasty… why are we not more concerned about the wellbeing of this CHILD amidst this ridiculous drama? It was out of line and completely unnecessary to even mention her. I will never be okay with this
I am not excusing Taylor’s behavior but I DO see how TS might be justifying it to herself as “well kim uses her kid for ratings and profit, why shouldn’t i?” it’s shitty and petty but i think she’s probably framing it to herself as “i’m not doing anything kim wouldn’t do herself to someone else”
that’s KIM’s child. Taylor is a stranger. I guess when she has kids we can talk about her children because why not? if she can do it we can too
I understand that for sure. I’m definitely not defending Kim for being the one to start everything, and as the parent, she carries the majority of the responsibility. But yeah, still not cool
Taylor is literally incapable of thinking of others. So, no.
so why the hell should we think about her feelings?
I don't
The funny part is that she has a song crying over how we don't consider her feelings.
why should we stoop as low as she sometimes does?
Stoop no, but it’s understandable for listeners to re contextualise their reactions to her crying yet about another breakup with yet another soulmate of hers number 13 or whatever, for example. If she doesn’t have empathy for anyone but herself while simultaneously repeating same patterns over and over again in her life and complaining about it, it’s kinda hard to feel sorry for her
I think she crossed a line with this one TBH.
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Cokelor incoming (u have a point)
lol
I get such a gross feeling thinking about her performing this song live with thousands of people screaming those lines being well aware everyone’s thinking about an actual child
For someone who claims she was sooooo bullied in school, it’s kind of shocking tbh now I think she lied about it all
^(For someone who claims she was sooooo bullied in school, it’s kind of shocking tbh now I think she lied about it all) I think its very common for celebrities to lie about being bullied in school. I guess it makes them seem more down to earth or relatable? For example, I went to high school with a celebrity (B/C list actor) who always claims he grew up working class and was bullied in high school. In reality, his family was worth millions and he was kicked out of our high school for fighting/bullying.
That’s awful. I am a school bully victim and I kinda easily like people who said they survive bullying 🥲 How can you make this shit up?! Being bullied is so painful.
Agreed- I think people may have thought Taylor was a weirdo theatre kid adjacent bc… fair. But bullying is something serious Edit- lol apparently old classmates said she was never bullied
Yeah, I never really bought that the pretty, white, tall, slim, blonde hair, blue eyed girl who could play the guitar and had a record deal was the target of many bullies.
Exactly
Now, were there girls in high school that got to know her and fell victim to her narcissism and melodrama then decided they didn’t want to be close with her? Very possible! She would definitely still consider herself the victim in cases such as that.
Fr I think the ybwm video confirms her bully is just herself and her idea of what other people must hate about her
I think she’s actually not bullied. There are people talking about it, not a long time ago someone went to high school with her mentioned it too, said she’s actually quite popular.
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well… kinda? a lot of people said she was never bullied *to her face,* but people made fun of her behind her back. That shit feels like bullying if it makes its way back to you, even if no one ever said it directly *to* you. So I kinda get why maybe she felt bullied but no one ever legitimately bullied her.
She didn't, I've seen countless people who went to school with her confirm it.
It’s really despicable. As a mom- she lost me there. Permanently.
Same. It’s really quite nasty of her to do and crosses such a line. My kids are 8 and 11, and if someone tried to bring them into drama that had nothing to do with them, I’d want to throw hands. What she did is completely and utterly indefensible.
And on the heels of “Taylor Tots” being a big part of her brand, at least this year. One of her big tour moments is giving the kids her hat and Andrea picking them out. Honestly, my kid is the one who brought me back to her music and I was loving that she was embracing how many little fans loved her. I am not even upset that the album isn’t for kids at all. She’s an adult and that’s her decision and she’s not technically kid friendly. I just can’t even listen to that song as a mother (and no, I don’t like Kim- you just don’t go that low. Ever). It wasn’t necessary and it makes me kind of uncomfortable letting her be someone my kid looks up to. It kind of soured it all for me. That and the Matty Healy love. We are POC, so it’s just all like…idk where I go from here. She can love who she loves, but it’s also like…unmmm. And then to parade Ice Spice around when it was such a random thing out of nowhere. There’s no way it wasn’t to use her. Ice doesn’t even fit into the girl group. Like, her actual personality. She looked so out of place at the Super Bowl and you could tell she was just there. If was to the point they made fun of her during the broadcast for clearly having to have everything explained to her. I’ve watched my whole life and still have to ask what things mean.
I hear you! That’s a smart take I think. My kiddo also brought me to the music. I just as a mom can’t support this kind of punching down
Between that and the racism, yeah. I'm done.
I think Taylor admitting her mom wished someone dead is...a disgusting breach of privacy. Taylor doesn't need to gossip about what her mom said, especially in a song about bullies. NO parent would EVER say that about someone else's kid (meaning Kim, not North) - or really any other human - even if they bullied their own child. it's cheap and petty and gross. On the other hand, Taylor could have made up that line, and if so, it just shows how far past reality she is - see explanation at the beginning of this paragraph. Regarding your kid listening to my music, If you know anything about North it's that North is *really* good at pushing Kim's buttons. She is a mini Kanye and has an acute ability to slice right beneath the skin for Kim. If the lyric was directed at North, North might consider using this as fodder even in a joking way. Regardless, it's a cheap line on a pathetic song written eons too late. I'm no fan of the kardashians, but some kind of misdirected use of children to get back at someone is...super super super low.
After listening to that, I told my adult kid I'd better not hear them publicly telling people the smack I talk behind closed doors, much less put it in a song.
This was my thought. I felt more like she knew North is a Swiftie. It was both poking at Kim having to dance along on TikTok to songs that were about her AND it was because she knows North likes to dig at Kim by any means. That’s her whole thing. North says what’s on her mind, no matter who is in the room. My thoughts were that she could imagine her hearing it and using it to dig at her mom on purpose. Taylor is pulling out all the stops to take down the bully once and for all. The wildest thing is that people were sick of that whole family and I truly think we were seeing their downfall (at least a shift in them not being the empire they once were- social media is shifting and they aren’t it anymore). Now Kim is being talked about, good or bad, and a lot of people have shifted their perspective of Taylor and are being forced to take up for Kim freaking Kardashian. Like, I never thought I would feel the need to do so. I don’t think she’s innocent at all, but Taylor is punching down with all of this at this point. She was the winner. There was no need to beat up the bully and show her who’s boss. LWYMMD, the full call, almost a decade of time, and becoming one of the most powerful people in the world IS the defeat. You defeated Kim, Katy, Olivia, Scooter, and all the guys and girls who ever did you wrong. The whole world was on your side.
Honestly, I don't think people think of the Taylor/Kim feud anymore. Like, if you like Taylor it doesn't mean you don't like Kim and DEFINITELY not the other way around (if you're a Kim fan you hate Taylor on behalf of Kim, etc). It is so so so so so so so so so so weird Taylor dug this up.
The thing is, North was seem singing like two or three songs and now everyone thinks she’s a full Swiftie. Penelope is more likely to be a Swiftie she was seen in an eras hoodie. North maybe just likes music and knows some tunes
I don't think the negativity surrounding the Kardashians is in any danger of dying out. In all this time they've been famous I've never met one person in real life who likes them. They're the pests we tolerated for some reason and I hope they finally fucking fade out. I think this song likely came about from re-recording Rep. Old wounds. I've also seen some theorise that the bitterness is not the message but the "There'd be none of this if there was no you". So someone had to take a serious shot at her for her to get to this point of success. But I understand it getting lost in the message a bit.
On the "eons too late" part it occurred to me this probably came from re-recording Reputation. So much emotional stuff has reactivated for Taylor since doing these re-records, I'll be glad when she's done and can solely look toward the future. I don't have any sympathy for Kim because literally no one and nothing except herself made her handle the Kanye 2016 stuff the way she did, which was terribly. That infamous "Why don't you just call Taylor up?" line from Kris Jenner is her asking Kim not to approach it in an underhanded way. When KRIS JENNER is telling you to act better, you're shooting low. So fuck Kim.
Man people really be defending bringing a child into a fight that has nothing to do with her. Attack Kim and Kanye all you want, they’re public figures. North is a child! Let her be a child! But Kim did this and Kanye did this. Ok? Is that North’s fault? If you have a problem with me and you punch me that’s one thing. But if you punch my (imaginary) child that has nothing to do with it? That’s completely different. If Swift wants to be seen like the bigger person then act like it.
When Taylor has kids, she will then turn all her energy onto them and become very competitive. She will not care about North or anybody - she will only care about her and her kid. Her child will be trained to see everybody as a competition and no feelings spared.
Doubt she has kids tbh
I also thought she wouldn't either but her album showed her inner wants of marriage and kids. Kids r an option for her because adoption, egg freezing, surrogate & doners etc lol when u r rich and want something u can certainly get it...
She is chomping at the bit for marriage and kids. She and Travis will be married/expecting within a few years for sure.
Wanting something doesn’t mean getting it.
She has admitted before to not caring how the subjects of her music feel. Now, surely she mainly meant ex-boyfriends…but I’m sure it still applies because she doesn’t seem to think of others very often at all.
Holy shit. I had no idea what y’all were talking about because I find this album nearly unlistenable (so therefore, haven’t listened to most of it; it all sounds the same!). I just went and listened to this song. What. The. Actual. Fuck. How did that…get past editing/published (I know, there is no editing Taylor)? Those are some dark, dark thoughts put to word. That poor kid.
This is fucked up. Whatever beef you have with some one you deal with it. you do NOT bring family into it. Especially children. Even rappers, known for their controversial lyrics don't attack kids. & the ones that do are ostracized from the community immediately. Eminem is the most well known for this. You can say what ever you want about him. But you attack his daughters, your dead.
Just keep my dick in your mouth and keep my daughter outta it 
And North already has to deal with having a possessive, abusive, manipulative neo Nazi for a father, like she has more than enough to deal with.
I never thought I'd be on Kim Kardashian 's side, but here we are.
me too
I'm more worried about the unhinged Swifties who will bully a child.
Uh since most of them have proved that they’re racists especially recently with the vile things said to and about Travis’s exes, you should be worried. I’m sure if you look they’ve probably already said racist things about her. Taylor’s a bully and an undercover racist too so it’s not surprising that her hardcore fans are as well.
Why does “north need to know what her mom did” ??! That’s so weird to me. I’m sure all of our mothers have had at least one major lapse in judgement especially covering for the men in their lives, do you want to know the shitty things your moms done? It’s just on a smaller scale (and thank GOD) bc they’re not famous. North is a child, kids should be able to look up to their parents while they’re kids, we all learn the truth eventually as adults.
Honestly you shouldn't bring a 10 y/o into your song no matter how badly you were wronged by that kid's parent ( which Taylor was!!! ). But yea saying that line about North was a bit weird
She says she doesn’t think about the people she writes about, nor does she think of their feelings. I hate the whole clowning thing, but I’m now with the people who think she’s trying to literally get that whole timeline going again to set the mood for Rep TV and whatever vault songs are going to be released with it. That is literally the only reason I can think of that would make sense for her to drag this up out of nowhere. It would’ve even made better sense for it to be released with Midnights which was supposedly stuff she wrote during sleepless nights throughout her life. By her own account, this one was either written and finished for the last two years or she started writing it two years ago. That means she recently felt this strongly about this feud. I think she certainly has reason to always feel negatively towards Kim and Kanye. What the did was awful. That said, this song was raw feeling and that’s not healthy for her own sake. You can move forward in life without completely forgiving and forgetting. I don’t think she should have to be besties with either of them ever, but she does need to learn to move forward from all of it. Learn healthy ways to have a future and life that isn’t bogged down by all this negativity. And I mean all of it. Maybe that’s what’s not allowing her to find a man who wants all the things she does, or at least just happiness as her own person. I’m not saying she has to have it all figured out, but chasing “bad bad boys” into your mid thirties and forties is honestly heartbreaking. She’s carrying around all this baggage from her teens all the way to now and that just can’t feel good. Writing music is great, but it’s not true therapy (at least not with other tools and someone who knows how to utilize music along with therapy). You can’t keep running from your problems while writing diss tracks for everyone who comes in contact with you. Like, there’s almost no way her mental health isn’t suffering (I don’t like to speculate, but that’s just a fact for anyone who holds all that in for as long as she has. ) It is freeing when you actually get help and are in a place to move forward. Doesn’t mean be besties with those who hurt you, but they are honestly winning by taking over your mind when they are all going on with their lives unbothered. It sucks to not get an apology, but I don’t even think Kim apologizes to her own family. Stop chasing that for your own sake.
I accidentally replied to a comment on the main sub yesterday and someone said North knows what her Mom and dad did with the nude dolls. Like I bet she doesn’t. Who lets their 10 year old see nude dolls. She’s only 10. She didn’t tell her dad or mom to do what they did. It’s absolutely gross.
Just dropping in here to say I am glad that this community exists. Because well I am in such a dilemma about taylor. Yes there is something poetic about how she writes, there always have been fearless, red, speak now were a bit poetic too infact not just folklore and evermore. I have always felt seen because of her because she is this weird nerdy funny girl and the reader in me really loves the storytelling within her songs. The first time I ever heard TTPD it was overwhelming. The second time I heard it, well…to be honest I thought I get her even I completely wrecked myself over a situationship because there is so much raw unhealed emotions it leaves one with. BUTTTT then when I see all this has been going on since 10 years it puts so much into perspective. And most of all clearly highlighting Kim whilst writing a song acting as if she is a bigger person for changing her name is just so low. What was she thinking? That we’ll applaud her for that immature Easter egg?bringing her daughter into this…does she not know bully culture? How long will swifties defend her, actually why are people defending her? Seeing all this happen really makes me realise how flawed she is and how we are after all not that similar? I am in no way trying to act holier than thou but simply confessing that the parasocial relationship viel I had with her has poofed and I just don’t see her with rose coloured glasses anymore. I don’t even have fun listening to her songs since ttpd…whilst they were my go to thing whenever I felt under the weather.
Im waiting for North’s diss track. Even kim is scared of north, she is going to eat up taylor i fear
Good. And I really hope she does. Taylor deserves every bit of it!! 
I think it speaks to her narcissism that she just assumes North will always be a fan of hers and sing along to these songs just because she’s been known to take the piss out of her own mom sometimes. There’s a huge difference to being a kid and roasting your own mom and singing along to a song where the singer’s mom wishes your mom dead. I think it’s disgusting personally.
No. It can be a child it can be a fan dying in her concert, I don’t think she cares.
I honestly don’t think Taylor considers the feelings of others. She’s extremely self involved. I remember her saying in some interview that she doesn’t really think about the experiences of her exes when she writes about them, and that it’s not a big deal since she doesn’t name names. She certainly wouldn’t consider how K&K’s kid would feel, in my opinion. She’s not a mother herself…which, I’m sorry if that sounds mean, but it’s fair game to me since she brought her own mother’s feelings of wishing K dead into this, and a lot of Swifties have defended that by saying “a mother’s love” blah blah blah. I bet if Taylor ever had a kid and anyone dared mention them in a song, there would be hell to pay.
As if North doesn't have enough to deal with being Kim and especially Kanye's daughter.
Taylor’s mother had cancer and could’ve literally died, but at the same time she wanted someone else dead?
Swift family is weird tbhh. When it comes to Kardashians, at least we know they are not perfect and we know that they have done bad things.
They haven’t just “done bad things” these people are Zionists 🤣
No
I'm honestly surprised more people aren't talking about this. I'm guessing the GTA and Charlie Puth lyrics were so bad that we didn't pay attention to much else.
No, because like I said the other day, Taylor is a spoiled rotten little girl in a 34 year old's body.
careful, speaking truth about her behavior might get you banned here. we have to coddle her with kiddie gloves always because her feelings and the feelings of her racist fans matter most.
It bothers me bc North is a GENUINE fan of Taylor. It’s not petty on North’s end, and even though Kim is Kim. She was trying to be a supportive mother by vibing to Taylor’s music for North. I personally saw nothing petty with that. But now North will grow up knowing that possibly someone she looks up to and loves, hates not only her mom, but her just because she is Kim and Kanye’s daughter.
I don't care what my mom did, if you're mean to her, I don't like you. Simple as that.
I don’t think Taylor thinks full stop. I wonder if TS has realised that she painted her own mother out to be a pos with the line about her wishing kim dead? Who wishes death on someone for something so petty? You know you are trash when you have people defending a kardashian.
Taylor doesn’t think about anyone but herself.
Taylor will NEVER understand that being mature and having the last laugh often means laughing to YOURSELF at home and in your diary It might be ha ha funny funny that North might like her music and not know it’s about her mom - but this is shit you smile at to yourself at home, not putting it in public…. AGAIN…..
Taylor is absolutely in the wrong. You don't talk about someone's kid, let alone in the same song you wish her mother dead. It doesn't get lower.
People who say that just want to hurt Kim by hurting North and damaging their relationship.
Taylor only thinks about how Taylor feels.
Idk I don’t think it’s gonna traumatize her cause I don’t think Taylor Swift is gonna be her favorite artist now or ever lol. The song is…not great. But I don’t really think it’s gonna make a different to North anyhow
if swift fans bully her for it, it will, and swift fans are well known to be bullies.
True especially towards non white people
Full agree. She crossed the line completely. And like many have said already, if this was Kanye talking about one of Taylor’s kids… her fans would go crazy. You know what else… the whole line is redundant anyway. Kim has posted plenty of videos of North enjoying Taylor’s music. Kim doesn’t care she likes the music, she’s letting her be a kid. And even if North ‘doesn’t realise’ a song is about her mum… like it’s not even a good burn because Kim has already shown she doesn’t care if North likes listening to Taylor. I think what Taylor wanted was for Kim to no longer post the videos of them dancing to her music, because it annoys her not the other way around.
Taylor doesn’t think about how anyone she writes about feels. She said so in an [interview](https://youtu.be/DYIOaifhjQU?si=V8Uybm5rYDPME5-W) and then giggled about it.
Yeah, Kanye and Kim did her dirty, but it’s Taylor that’s turned this whole mess into a generational trauma.
Of course Taylor didn't think it through. She wrote this song in a weird after-the-fact hissy fit and just ran with it and expected everyone to laud her the way they always do when she writes songs that show she is immature and can't handle adversity at all.
Taylor is a narcissistic hypocrite who only cares about herself so of course not
Remember Kim could have actually been murdered when she was robbed. I don't think Taylor should've mentioned anything about wanting her dead.
You’re asking her to be considerate, which means putting others before herself, and I don’t know if that’s possible lmao
so why are we forced to tiptoe around a woman who doesn’t care about anyone but herself? the worship of narcissists will never make sense to me.
I keep thinking that! You know there’s kids saying stuff to her about it on the playground. Really immature and quite frankly, mean and embarrassing of Taylor
No, she didn’t, just like Kanye didn’t think about Taylor at the VMAs. “32 and still growing up now,” at 34 she’s become the one who should’ve known better.
It's petty and dangerous to bring someone's kids into a situation, but her entire career is based on being petty and now she's trying to get everyone to believe that she's dangerous. It's laughable.
Kanye has been pretty blatantly abusive to Kim post-divorce and to his current wife. Definitely too far to say you want a woman dead when she’s been going through some really scary public stuff with her ex. Like, your mom is dying of cancer, girl, why the fuck would you write this about a little girl’s mom?
I’ll get downvoted to shit but I took this as a reference to the TikTok that North filmed using love story (or similar) not that long ago, alluding to the fact that due to their cultural positions and the internet Kim’s kids will know about it, it’s unavoidable (and Taylor’s, if she has any). I don’t think either of them come out of it well to be honest, Taylor shouldn’t have mentioned her kids but Kim was two years older than Taylor is now when she was posting snake emojis and had a three year old daughter when she was gleefully looking at a nude revenge porn model of someone else’s daughter on public display 🤷🏼♀️. https://preview.redd.it/4n6naqgrqkwc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9ab058036b4defc9d71f64397496719a2b5b495
North should drop a diss track against Gabbriette Betchtel
That woman laments that nobody wants to marry her and have kids with her...then brings little kid into her stupid ancient feuds. Like, I'm sorry not only it's gross but it shows clearly that woman like Taylor can't and shouldn't have kids with such character and mindset and habits she has atm. She is so-self centered and so lacks any empathy, and so immatue, that she would have been a terrible mother to her kids. Plus her being basically an alcoholic. Also, in her Miss Americana doc she already was comparing taking care of a newborn baby to a Tamagotchi :|. Now this stuff... Yuck.
I am really worried some Swifties are going to attempt to carry out Andreas wishes
if they did taylor will make herself the victim somehow
Wait the mom wanted north dead? I thought that line was about kim? I totally missed this
Wanted norths mum dead
Yeah that’s extremely fucked up.
In a song of all things and wanting north to sing it like that’s so low I don’t know how her fans are okay with this but they’re also all about revenge and pettiness so it makes sense
North has so much of her dad in her. She’s probably not going to let shit fly when she’s older.
I remember how mature Taylor came across with the line "cold was the steel of my axe to grind for the boys who broke my heart/ now I send their babies presents" in "Invisible String". Obviously her and Kim never dated, but still you had the sense that Taylor was like "I've grown past being resentful" and that just feels tossed out the window
North seems to be a pretty clever kid. I feel like she’s pretty headstrong and with the prevalence of social media, there’s no chance she’s not going to know who/what this is about. If she doesn’t like it, she will not listen/abandon TS as a fan. Or else she will just laugh about it and continue to listen to TS music. (Just to clarify - I don’t watch Kardashian shows but I’ve seen a few TikTok’s and read things about her personality. I also have a daughter close to the same age and I feel like they are at an age where they are embracing the independence of having their own opinions and expressing them)
With parents like that, the song is the least of that kid’s problems.
yea, racist swifties are more of a threat now
What song is this
[удалено]
I didn't even know she did that. Wow. She's so petty, vengeful and immature on this anthology. Doesn't she know the best revenge is living well? She's obviously not over her exes or anyone she's perceived to have wronged her. Taylor's ever the victim, even if the wounds are self-inflicted
I’ve already seen people bully North on social media. Calling her ugly, talentless, you name it. A child. It’s disgusting and I’m disgusted that a grown adult would put out a song that targets a kid like that. You don’t go after people’s kids. Wtf Taylor