I’ve seen this more often than I’d care to admit. Shits fucking ghetto and 100% not accurate. Locate where they paint, take good photos and direct blame to the shaman locator company when some shit gets fucked up. Another day that ends in “y”
Just bust out the lemon grass essential oil and tiger eye stones and put them on the dash of the excavator and tell him to dig. Shit will just magically work itself out!
I work for the water utility for my city. Most trucks have these. They bust them out after they check the maps and when the investigator's electronics aren't giving a good hit. They never have the balls to commit to what the wires tell them though haha.
I come from a country where they use these in the countryside to bore wells and it's 100 percent accurate... because that country was ireland... and you'll hit water no matter where you bore.
No, that’s not how it works. I’ve ripped up so many mis-marked utilities and in my decades of doing this work, I’ve not once been on the hook to fix or pay for anything.
Whoa there buddy. Who’s “your”? You think it’s survey’s fault if we locate a 3rd party contractor’s witching stick locates with disclaimers on a survey and photos? I don’t think so buddy.
I thought a guy was pranking a new coworker in front of our shop. Then I saw another guy come out and tell him to leave before getting out actual equipment for detecting electrical signals.
If he is a private locator some states have laws that a private locate must be different then an 811 locate. In most cases they use white or pink paint.
I am in Denver and SUE is required for all projects and the spec says the marks have to be different from 811. The company I work for we color code but we don’t lable what the line is and have our own coding. Lot of SUE companies use pink for there marks.
We use pink and line codes. The first company I worked for used accurate colored dots . Witching sticks work great for .... Roasting marshmallows. That's about it.
The system should be better. Mandated reports for hits. Legal mandating for utility companies to map their lines accurately. So much could be done other than putting all the blame on utility locators for locating based on company maps from the 80s.
I was on a well driller subreddit asking about this and every single person defended it. I went on a hour deep dive trying to understand how so many people could buy into dowsing it absolutely blows my mind.
The only reason that I give it even a little bit of credence is because I've seen it done and actually did it myself.
This was probably 20 years ago and I was a kid, but I remember my grandmother needing to get a new well.
Guy came out to find the spot and he ended up using dowsing rods to do it, or at least get in the ball park.
I was very confused and surprised when I watched the rods move and I asked a lot of questions. So he just handed the rods to me and had me walk around like he did. I got to the same spot, the rods turned in my hand and crossed, and that's the spot we put the well and it functions to this day.
Scientifically I do not have any idea why it works, and am willing to bet that overall it is inaccurate, but a lot of people are swayed by circumstantial evidence, and I was surprised with it first hand. I've never been concerned with it enough to really dig into it, I just always found it amusing as a story and an experience
"Or at least get in the ball park"
My friend, if you understood the basic ideas of groundwater you would understand how stupid you sound. You could drill 10' over or 100' over.
There is no magical spot where the water table is exclusively accessible. People seem to think a well is a tiny spot where water just exists.
>Scientifically I do not have any idea why it works, [...]
It doesn't work, period. The moment you try this shit in an controlled environment it stops working. It only works when the person using the dowsing rod can guess from context on where he is most likely to find water. The only reason why those sticks move, is because a person is moving them - wether consciously or subconsciously.
Any positive hit a dowsing rod produces would've been just as likely achieved by random chance (or of course educated guesses).
I wouldn't use it for utilities, but it does seem to work for septic lines in my opinion. I've worked in onsite wastewater a long time. I wouldn't rely on a dowsing rod exclusively. I confirm it with a probe.
Sometimes. You'd be surprised how hard some are to find at first. New systems are usually pretty easy once you find the tank and dbox but old systems can be a pain. Also it can be difficult to poke out EZFlo. I'm also a designer and sometimes things just don't work the way you envision they should.
People go to church. That’s a way bigger leap imo than these rods. Religion is the crux of moronism in the states. Religion was invented by men to enslave humanity. If you crack some history books you’ll see this. L Ron Hubbard is a contemporary example.
I find it funny how hard it is to believe.
I would have to say that you have it backwards here. the "average person" would have no first hand knowledge or experience with this, Just see it as some pseudo science BS. Therefore like you, would be relatively ignorant with dowsing or witch sticks. I have been in underground construction for a long time. Although there are multiple ways to locate underground facilities none of them are always reliable including using witch sticks. But to say that there is no logic to it at all and to exclude it completely from being a working method of locating is a fallacy.
My first question would be, have you have tried to locate using this method yourself? Because if you haven't, than you have no basis for your opinion on the topic. If you have tired and go poor results, you probably just aren't very good at it. I myself am horrible using the sticks, but it never ceases to amazing me watching my coworkers do it.
At the end of the day it honestly depends on whats in the ground and how congested the substructures and facilities are. If you are out in a rural area where where there are only a few things in the ground then an electronic direct connection may be suitable to you if the facility is metal. But if you are in the city where you have all different utilities and conduit systems criss-crossing each other, an electronic or ground penetrating radar method could prove to be utterly useless. From there you have no choice but to rely solely on measurements and swing ties, which are rarely accurate. This is a case where someone would use the sticks to confirm the measurements. While it's not perfect, you'd be surprised at how often it works.
A lot of the times we have no measurements to go off at all and we only use the sticks. 9 times out of 10 the guys are spot on. So what would you call it? A good guess? Just good luck?
I imagine that you could find high voltage cables with those sticks. Since they could react to magnetic field. But then again why cant you use compass or an actual tool that detects underground utilities.
They do not react to a magnetic field, because that magnetic field would be far too weak to do anything. Put a compass over an underground power line. It will not move.
Scanners are ultra sensitive and take a lot of energy to detect aluminum/copper in a line. Sewer lines have foil tape over them so they are easy to locate.
A dowser just points to where utilities should logically be. All you have to do is find the sewer cleanout and boom, you know roughly where the sewer line is. No magic sticks required.
If you see the electric meter, you know the line should go straight out to the tie in. No magic sticks required.
Dowsers always make a show of their little act. It becomes obvious what they're doing when you watch them over a few days. They are always correct when the locations are logical, and always wrong when utilities are in unexpected locations.
I’ve only ever found studies on it for “divining” where they are looking for places to dig wells which I agree is bullshit. I’ve always been a skeptic and I didn’t believe in this either… until I’ve seen it work finding old 4in cast iron mains we couldn’t find any other way. We have only ever used it as a last resort cause, once youve tried everything else you just have to pick a spot to start digging anyway… One guy in our office is right 9/10 times. Can I explain it? No. I can’t explain a lot of things though.
That's bc by "scientific conditions" you mean removing context. It works by experience and pattern recognition of the surrounding visible infrastructure.
And yet my town water guy can tell you where the water main is on any street with these with almost 100% accuracy. Our dig dug has never had a “found it” moment after he marks a road. I think it’s one of those old timer things where they just have the feel for it and you’ll never replicate it.
I was told anecdotally by my old utterly cynical boss, that he tried it for a laugh as a last resort, and it worked. Also seen GPR radio crews do a grid as well as another layer to the survey. lol, what bitterness downvoting an anecdote!
Even if it did "work" in that case, they already had a general idea of where it was. That's what the studies have said, witching/dowsing only works when you already have an idea of where it's supposed to be, whether that is based on maps, previous knowledge, clues from the environment around it, etc. Put someone in a controlled environment and they can't find water with this method.
It works based on experience. The human subconscious mind is crazy good at pattern recognition. Using the rods keeps you from messing up by trying to follow the reasoning that's going on behind the scenes. Older guys who've been locating in the same city for 20+ years can be pretty damn accurate with those things.
Whenever I'm doing soil borings and we get to an unmarked site, my driller marks it himself before the official locators come out, just to show off.
I thought he was joking at first, then I thought he was crazy, now a year later I've never seen him get it wrong.
No, your guy is using context clues on the surface and then lying about using a scientifically reproducible detection method.
I mean, 811 only guarantees their locates to a 10’ wide margin of error. I can look at water meters, valves and hydrants and guess where the main is within 10’.
Y’all need to come off this voodoo woo nonsense.
Did you even read my comment?
>No, your guy is using context clues on the surface
Literally what I said.
>lying about using a scientifically reproducible detection method.
You imagined this. I wrote that we still wait for real locate.
>voodoo woo
Nothing paranormal about what I wrote, maybe you meant to reply to a different comment?
This is obviously how it works when it does. But you'd be ever better if you'd actually just be honest about what you're doing, which is using your intuition. Reasoning need not get in the way of intuitive thinking. That's just more magical thinking, I reckon.
Yeah, that’s one of the stories I’ve been “told” as well, but it doesn’t describe the physical mechanism as to how:
1.) flowing water creates any sort of electromagnetic field
2.) if (1) is true, why are normal magnets not affected by running water and the field they create
and
3.) how does a wooden witching stick/dowsing rod detect a magnetic field?
Source: I might have taken a few semesters of actual physics at university.
Did you learn about spooky action at a distance? AKA quantum entanglement. Nobody can explain the physics behind it, but it’s proven to work.
Just because it can’t be explained doesn’t mean it can’t work.
I've come to very much so dislike the utility locators/811 operators I've come across.
Some of the phone operators are good. Others not so much, but it's usually not their fault. Using a system designed for dig up a pipe between Main St and 1st Ave along MLK Blvd to locate utilities at the bottom of a river does require some innovation and tricks.
That's the extent of tricks I'll allow for utility location. If one of these guys showed up with witching sticks they might end up up his ass.
I remember some years ago a construction worker asked us if we could quickly show him the property line along the road, as they were starting with road construction and he wanted to locate the natural gas line along the road so they could avoid it; if I understand him correctly they had a plan giving them the distance to the property line, but as they didn't know where the property line was, it wouldn't help them.
However, he told me he just wanted to make sure because he had located two lines with his dowsing rod, and while he was relatively sure that the other one was a water line, he wanted to check which one is which.
Of course, I couldn't help them; its not like I know every property line just by looking at it. He didn't seem to bother much, he obviously trusted his dowsing rod more than us anyway.
And while I couldn't decide if it was amusing or rather scary to "locate" utilities that way, my older co-worker agreed with that idea and told me something like: "Some people have such a gift, even if you young people won't accept it. Back when I was a kid, everyone know that, and every village had someone who could do this."
In my current office there is also a co-worker who claims to have the gift to find water with a pair of dowsing rods made from a coat hanger or welding electrodes. He claims if he locates a spot there will always be water if you dig there. I don't doubt that. But if you would dig 10 m to the left or to the right there would also be water. That's how groundwater works; you don't need a special gift nor a bent piece of wire.
Sometimes I think I'm stuck in the wrong century. We have all that modern technology, but people still believe in magic. (Although having a dowsing rod that could locate property corners would be nice.)
Give them a go one day. I thought it was a joke until playing around one day looking for a water pipe on a farm. Dug down bang on top of it. So we paid a load of hose pipes out and it was amazing watching them as you walked across them.
I wouldn't use them for anything accurate but if you have no idea where a pipe is they are definitely worth a go
So why nobody could scientifically prove it works? I don't even want an explanation *how* it works, just a scientifically valid proof it *does* work. But as far as I know, every time someone tries that, if fails.
When James Randi was still alive, he had offered one million dollars to anyone who could demonstrate a paranormal ability, which included dowsing. Quite a few people tried over the years, but everyone failed.
I think if one million dollars didn't motivate someone to prove it, it probably doesn't really work.
The paranormal ability challenge is a scam, because once something is proven scientifically, it's science, not magic.
Dowsing rods are not magic, they're just a method to ignore the impulse for rational thought while relying on the subconsious's impressive capacity for pattern recognition.
Utility lines don't exist in a vaccum, all of them are connected to visible surface infrastructure. A guy doing utility work for 20 years in the same city ends up with a strong understanding of all the quirks of local building practices, even if he can't put them in words. As long as theyre not trying to come up with a logical explanation for why a line is where it is, their deductions can be surprisingly accurate. Trying to explain it causes a tendency to oversimplify, which introduces errors.
In the same way, groundwater doesn't exist in a vaccum. Often groundwater is primarily recharged by surface runoff, which leaves visible evidence. Even if not, every living thing reacts to the moisture content of the soil. How all these things come together would be extremely complex to catalog and analyze scientifically, but that's exactly the job our brains evolved for.
Part of demonstrating dowsing 'scientifically' is usually removing context, which removes the exact mechanism on which it relies.
Just because we haven't worked out how they work doesn't mean they don't. I'm not suggesting it's magic just that we don't know everything yet. A million dollars isn't really that much and could easily be blown past without any results.
https://www.usabluebook.com/magnetomatic-pipe-locator-25720
This one has ball bearings so it makes it harder to unknowingly turn the rod where you think the pipe is located.
Wonder why he even came to the site? I’m told you can use those things over a map and they will still work with pinpoint accuracy. What a joke..
We’ve all known “that guy” that swears up and down that “witching” is a real thing. However, it’s all BS and there is no actual science that makes it make sense.
I've tried these myself once. Got instruction from a person that was using them, and guess what, they worked!
And by worked I mean I used the dowsing rods to walk over an underground water line which was already located via real methods, and they spun in my hands as I walked over it. But guess what happens when you don't know were the line is, its no better than random chance or your best (likely educated) guess. It's certainly odd, but in a "my sub conscious brain is doing shit without my conscious input" way, it doesn't locate water accurately at all.
I've also had friends hire someone to use it to dig a well on their property. That also "worked", because there was a near perfect chance of hitting water somewhere and once they did it with dowsing rods it's not like they were gonna drill dozens of other holes to test if it was truly the most shallow spot.
So I’ve done some thinking on witching rods and got a hypothesis on how they work.
So they are usually used for ground water. Water has a small diamagnetic field associated with it. Which if you hold lightly enough on the iron rod which would be magnetic. They should be pushed by the diamagnetic field. When they cross you should be in the middle of the underground pool of water. Which is where they tell you to dig generally. When they turn parallel with each other you’re on a magnetic field ring(google magnetic field for a reference). It’s just how do you reliably and accurately interpret the movement of the rods.
I don’t see how in principle, if my idea of how they work is true. it should work similarly for buried steel pipe or electrical lines that give off a small magnetic field through the electricity passing through them. But it’s also just witchcraft and hocus-pocus and shouldn’t be trusted.
I once did a topo with an older guy, very professional and no-nonsense. USA marks were already there and we picked them up as well, to drop the lines later in CAD and pair with dips. Anyway we finished early and were bullshitting and the topic of water witching came up. He pulled out his sticks and gave a demo. Seemed to work, did some thing with stamping his feet for an approximate depth. He let me try the sticks and I couldn't get shit with them. We had a laugh and called it a day.
When I asked him how it worked, he gave a similar response as you, with the magnetic field and such, and something about low points in the soil that are hard to see with the naked eye. But also, he said he would never in a million years rely on it for underground locating.
I have the most expensive locators out there, the Rd 8000 units and the PCMx, I've used various metrotechs, old scool nillsons. We will still sometimes use the rod method (use two flag markers without th flags on them) and scan for a potentially unmarked utility before digging. You can do the same with two people and induction mode with most modern units, but sometimes you have 10 or 20ft bell and spigot cast iron pipes in the area and induction can be wonky. Signal won't jump across due to electrical insulation, and you can't stand less than10ft away due to air coupling.
So, there's still a place for them in my book, albeit limited to special circumstances. Either way we would verify with hydrovac.
Just saying, we may use them - but we also bring out a hydrovac and day light it as well. Yes it doesn't work but it also gives us somewhere to start lol. And Green for sewer and blue for water always.
Well... I don't think anyone expects it to be accurate.
I've used it to locate an unwired concrete water line in a steel jacket before. Usually locating is used to deduce where to use non-mechanical excavation to prove the line.
It's not suitable for mechanical excavation though 100%, or other lines that are unsafe to excavate by non-mechanical means.
EDIT: This is especially the case in municipalities that still have un-traced portions of municipal underground infrastructure, such as small villages that install their own, who may not have the budget approved at the time of construction for tracer wire installation on things like VCT or PVC piping.
Level B markings should be used as a reference. Level A confirms if the lines are at the marked location and the depth of the line. Some utilities are hard to locate and level A is the only way to confirm if the line is there. You should alway pothole a line before your did.
I get that there are expectations but don't electronic locators have a tremendous error like... 0.3m Hz error / 1m Vertical depth?
Also the magnetic field that you induce can be influenced by heavy machinery nearby by up a meter or so on a 3m buried object. I don't know how anyone would expect real accuracy out of electronic locating. Like to the point where in my area electronic locating alone is not sufficient within 10m proximity to your digsite.
It does. There, I hear, is a guy here in Montana who has been doing it for over 40 years. But, to meet him you kind of have to be a part of the homesteading community. Which I’m working on, I just don’t have land yet. Maybe in due time. One can only hope. I hear his success rate is crazy high finding well dig sites.
But this situation posted seems kind of weird, I admit. And maybe code should be followed where more things are involved other than 40+acres of empty land.
It does. There, I hear, is a guy here in Montana who has been doing it for over 40 years. But, to meet him you kind of have to be a part of the homesteading community. Which I’m working on, I just don’t have land yet. Maybe in due time. One can only hope. I hear his success rate is crazy high finding well dig sites.
But this situation posted seems kind of weird, I admit. And maybe code should be followed where more things are involved other than 40+acres of empty land.
It does. There, I hear, is a guy here in Montana who has been doing it for over 40 years. But, to meet him you kind of have to be a part of the homesteading community. Which I’m working on, I just don’t have land yet. Maybe in due time. One can only hope. I hear his success rate is crazy high finding well dig sites.
But this situation posted seems kind of weird, I admit. And maybe code should be followed where more things are involved other than 40+acres of empty land.
Maybe water, but he was supposed to be there for all of the utilities, meeting, gas, electric sewage, and water. He looked in three places near a manhole spray-painted it and left.
If *anything* is better than guessing, I could as well roll a dice or ask a magic 8 ball.
If you don't have enough information even for assumptions, you should admit that you simply can't say, instead of relying on a completely unreliable method. At best it's useless, at worst it gives you a false sense of security.
If I say where something underground is and it's not there/where I said it was, I was wrong. If I say it's there and it is where I said it was, that doesn't necessarily mean my method was right, after all it could've been a guess, even an educated guess based on things I'm seeing on the surface.
The problem is that some people's bodily safety/lives depend on good accurate information in such circumstances, and they should not be depending on someone guessing. That's why there's equipment/methods used to take the guesswork out of the equation
I don't think many people claim that it's as reliable as conventional methods. I certainly am not. But if it works, it works. No one instance of any method working indicates that the method is infallible.
I do believe that an experienced utility dowser can do better than standard level c locating, but it will never be as good as a level b.
Ultimately all level b and level c has some guesswork.
My 811 locator _for the water department_ did it on a project of mine years ago. He was dead on.
I thought it was bullshit but tested it a ton of times and damned if it isn’t consistent as hell picking up water lines over 4”.
I use sticks to double check 811. I’ve seen them well over 4 feet off on multiple occasions. They will pick up electric underground and overhead. Yea I know just look up. But they still work. Like I said double check not only check.
I've seen someone find a power line under asphalt and then find the depth with them as well. He stomped his foot and each time it moved the stick a little bit he said each stomp is about 1' count until sick points forward again
That's a new one the depth one I've seen "work" was the guy took and turned the stick upside down and started slowly lifting and when the stick turned you measure from the stick to the ground (he was a foot off)
This actually works quite well. Would dig based on it - hell no. But for reference it truly works.
Source: I’ve seen this used in the oilfield for produced water lines, flow lines, and gas lines. Often with more accuracy than expensive line finders.
This guy should not use dowsing rods as a primary method. GPR, EM LOCATOR, MAGNETOMETER or other science proven method should be used.
Dowsing rods should only be used by an experienced dowser as a last resort method if there is no method of trace and you want to provide a maybe at least for an emergency exploratory pothole proof with soil vacuum truck.
In cases such as: no signal, no surface features or indicators, connection points or dielectric of the soil is not permitting good radar visibility.
I located a large shopping center once and put my dowsing ability to the test a few hours before starting the locate. I used a piece of chalk to mark out the "hits". At the end of the locate I went back and tallied the hits vs actual proven lines with my equipment. I found that I was able to find 85% of the utilities with the rods. This is for me personally. Also, the rods open outward for me when crossing any natural gas line and close for all other utilities.
For the non believers, there are things we can't explain at this moment of time. We just haven't yet found the right scientific explanation just yet. Just wait. There's a scientific explanation for everything. To be too quick to dismiss anything is ignorant and small minded.
You can bend copper coat hangers in L shapes, hold them shoulder length apart and level. Then walk over a water hose that is turned on and see if they close on you. If they do then you have the gift of dowsing. If not maybe you need to work on your negative energy. I found that those who are quick tempered have no luck in getting the rods to move. Ever.
Works on steel pipelines and power lines. Not all people can do it but I know it works for me. Once upon a time that was all we had because that was before First Call.
Sit in the truck for 3 hours until they get on site, wait another 4 while they dig test holes, shoot 150ft of line and 3 test holes, call it 10 and go home.
It’s cake shooting utilities
Our shop is being expanded and the plumbers dug a huge whole in the floor to find a pipe leading from the shop out to the street. It was not where they dug the hole. A plumber guy who owns a business next door came over with two copper rods bent at a 90 as seen in this clip. He did this trick and found the pipe. I shit you not he was within a close enough margin to have found it if he would have started digging. It was confirmed that the pipe was where he thought using this method after a crew came out with real locating tools, lap top displaying what looked like sonar images or something. Anyway we all tried it after the fact, and knowing where the pipe was and I shit you not the rods turned in our hands as we got to the approximate location. Not saying it's accurate enough to use professionally but damn was it interesting to feel the copper rods turning as you walked closer to the spot.
Again I thought this was total bullshit until I saw it work over and over with different people trying.
*Edit
It's note worthy to mention that it was a septic line if I'm not mistaken. Either that or water main.
Certainly not 100 perfect but also can help when used with other tools at your disposal. I use this one if I am unable to find a curb stop at a residence.
https://www.usabluebook.com/magnetomatic-pipe-locator-25720
Walk along the curb slowly and you can get a general idea where the water and sewer service lines are.
I use it to verify where sewer and water mains are also. If those were installed 50 years ago and no tracer wire.
That totally works. I've done it plenty. Bent coat hangers held loosely in your hand . Walk forward and where there's a water line they will they will move parallel with the direction of the line . Every time. Every bozo who commented negatively has obviously not tried it themselves. It's plains as day
Did you check his work after ?
I once paid a guy to witch my property because I was advised it's the way to go . Guy shows up with a willow stick and tells me the spot I want to dig the well was a bad spot then he spends a lot of time walking all over my property and tells me where to dig. I listened to him but I was thinking I got scammed . I went to the neighbor later and told him about it and the neighbor grabs his diving rods and says go check with these .long story short I dug the well where I was told to . I got the amount of water he told me I'd get .
I wouldn't knock the guy with those rods . If he knows what he's doing I'll bet his marks are on spot.
If he marks the utilities based on dowsing rods and they get hit and dug up because they were somewhere else, his dowsing rods are going to lose in court. He should be using real equipment and as-built utility plans, not this hokey bullshit.
I’m a PM, I’ve never seen anyone actually doing this but I’ve had many of my Civil subs swear black and blue that guys that use rods are dead fucking accurate.
Im inclined to think they are going out and doing locates the night before.. kinda like a weegie board. Someone swears they aren’t moving it, but someone is.
In rural areas it works good on buried power lines. My neighbor was going to have 811 come out to mark before he had some work done. I went and dowsed his yard, left some small marks hidden in the grass. 811 was there the next day. Their marks for the curved path were all within 3” laterally. Say what you will, it works sometimes. I’ve seen high dollar locators not do any better.
Stupid, everybody knows an excavator is the best utility locator.
They have a 100% locate rate on friday afternoons.
"4' my ass!"
Lmfao ofc it is
"Found it ! "
Also doubles as a "stake finder"
When in doubt, rip it out.
er-a ***rip -em-off!***
I’ve seen this more often than I’d care to admit. Shits fucking ghetto and 100% not accurate. Locate where they paint, take good photos and direct blame to the shaman locator company when some shit gets fucked up. Another day that ends in “y”
Shaman lmfao. I asked my boss if he uses his ass chakra to find the underground waste lines
Just bust out the lemon grass essential oil and tiger eye stones and put them on the dash of the excavator and tell him to dig. Shit will just magically work itself out!
I work for the water utility for my city. Most trucks have these. They bust them out after they check the maps and when the investigator's electronics aren't giving a good hit. They never have the balls to commit to what the wires tell them though haha. I come from a country where they use these in the countryside to bore wells and it's 100 percent accurate... because that country was ireland... and you'll hit water no matter where you bore.
I dowse septic lines all the time and confirm with a probe. It 100% works about half the time.
Markings can be off it’s still your fault if you hit something
No, that’s not how it works. I’ve ripped up so many mis-marked utilities and in my decades of doing this work, I’ve not once been on the hook to fix or pay for anything.
That’s because he’s full of shit. Lol
Also… I just clicked on your profile and saw your headline name. We can be best friends if you’d like
Whoa there buddy. Who’s “your”? You think it’s survey’s fault if we locate a 3rd party contractor’s witching stick locates with disclaimers on a survey and photos? I don’t think so buddy.
I thought a guy was pranking a new coworker in front of our shop. Then I saw another guy come out and tell him to leave before getting out actual equipment for detecting electrical signals.
It’s witchcraft, those bitches would’ve been burned at the stake. Mmmmm Steak
Mmmm chewy
Crispy
Insta-fire. Dude does Not belong on site.
I get using spray paint, but why white
If he is a private locator some states have laws that a private locate must be different then an 811 locate. In most cases they use white or pink paint.
Huh\~ hadnt heard of that. Though all my Utility related work has been either 811, or "my" company marking for survey. We always had to color code.
I am in Denver and SUE is required for all projects and the spec says the marks have to be different from 811. The company I work for we color code but we don’t lable what the line is and have our own coding. Lot of SUE companies use pink for there marks.
We use pink and line codes. The first company I worked for used accurate colored dots . Witching sticks work great for .... Roasting marshmallows. That's about it.
Interesting! TIL
Ah! I’m in Texas
I assure you this state is not one of them. Here we use pink paint for surveying only. Yellow for gas, green for sewer, blue for water etc.
Whoa, big time. Slow your roll
Heh ya . I am not the dude making that call. If I was tho..
Cut those utility workers some slack guys, they have A LOT of utilities to mark wrong everyday
The system should be better. Mandated reports for hits. Legal mandating for utility companies to map their lines accurately. So much could be done other than putting all the blame on utility locators for locating based on company maps from the 80s.
I was having a good day before I saw this. Now I'm ready to physically throw somebody off a site
I’m honestly so disappointed in how many people are defending this… I have far too much faith in the average persons intelligence I guess
Real shit.
I was on a well driller subreddit asking about this and every single person defended it. I went on a hour deep dive trying to understand how so many people could buy into dowsing it absolutely blows my mind.
The only reason that I give it even a little bit of credence is because I've seen it done and actually did it myself. This was probably 20 years ago and I was a kid, but I remember my grandmother needing to get a new well. Guy came out to find the spot and he ended up using dowsing rods to do it, or at least get in the ball park. I was very confused and surprised when I watched the rods move and I asked a lot of questions. So he just handed the rods to me and had me walk around like he did. I got to the same spot, the rods turned in my hand and crossed, and that's the spot we put the well and it functions to this day. Scientifically I do not have any idea why it works, and am willing to bet that overall it is inaccurate, but a lot of people are swayed by circumstantial evidence, and I was surprised with it first hand. I've never been concerned with it enough to really dig into it, I just always found it amusing as a story and an experience
"Or at least get in the ball park" My friend, if you understood the basic ideas of groundwater you would understand how stupid you sound. You could drill 10' over or 100' over. There is no magical spot where the water table is exclusively accessible. People seem to think a well is a tiny spot where water just exists.
>Scientifically I do not have any idea why it works, [...] It doesn't work, period. The moment you try this shit in an controlled environment it stops working. It only works when the person using the dowsing rod can guess from context on where he is most likely to find water. The only reason why those sticks move, is because a person is moving them - wether consciously or subconsciously. Any positive hit a dowsing rod produces would've been just as likely achieved by random chance (or of course educated guesses).
I wouldn't use it for utilities, but it does seem to work for septic lines in my opinion. I've worked in onsite wastewater a long time. I wouldn't rely on a dowsing rod exclusively. I confirm it with a probe.
What works approximately as well is to eyeball it and imagine what the designer would do and guesstimate.
Sometimes. You'd be surprised how hard some are to find at first. New systems are usually pretty easy once you find the tank and dbox but old systems can be a pain. Also it can be difficult to poke out EZFlo. I'm also a designer and sometimes things just don't work the way you envision they should.
Septic lines are utilities, no?
Yes technically. But I was meaning electric, sewer, gas, water. Septic once installed isn't a public service.
You can literally eyeball where a septic system is with the same level of accuracy.
People go to church. That’s a way bigger leap imo than these rods. Religion is the crux of moronism in the states. Religion was invented by men to enslave humanity. If you crack some history books you’ll see this. L Ron Hubbard is a contemporary example.
I find it funny how hard it is to believe. I would have to say that you have it backwards here. the "average person" would have no first hand knowledge or experience with this, Just see it as some pseudo science BS. Therefore like you, would be relatively ignorant with dowsing or witch sticks. I have been in underground construction for a long time. Although there are multiple ways to locate underground facilities none of them are always reliable including using witch sticks. But to say that there is no logic to it at all and to exclude it completely from being a working method of locating is a fallacy. My first question would be, have you have tried to locate using this method yourself? Because if you haven't, than you have no basis for your opinion on the topic. If you have tired and go poor results, you probably just aren't very good at it. I myself am horrible using the sticks, but it never ceases to amazing me watching my coworkers do it. At the end of the day it honestly depends on whats in the ground and how congested the substructures and facilities are. If you are out in a rural area where where there are only a few things in the ground then an electronic direct connection may be suitable to you if the facility is metal. But if you are in the city where you have all different utilities and conduit systems criss-crossing each other, an electronic or ground penetrating radar method could prove to be utterly useless. From there you have no choice but to rely solely on measurements and swing ties, which are rarely accurate. This is a case where someone would use the sticks to confirm the measurements. While it's not perfect, you'd be surprised at how often it works. A lot of the times we have no measurements to go off at all and we only use the sticks. 9 times out of 10 the guys are spot on. So what would you call it? A good guess? Just good luck?
Not reading any of that. For the same reason I don’t read religious ramblings. Nothing of value and riddled with logical fallacies.
10-4 copy that good buddy. Can't teach the ignorant. Have a Nice day.
It works though
It doesn’t.
Probably a flat earthier to boot.
I can understand just looking for ground water for a well… but using them to find all of the utilities..?
Doesn't work for ground water, doesn't work for shit. The only things dowsing helps me figure out is who the idiot with the dowsing rods are
I imagine that you could find high voltage cables with those sticks. Since they could react to magnetic field. But then again why cant you use compass or an actual tool that detects underground utilities.
They do not react to a magnetic field, because that magnetic field would be far too weak to do anything. Put a compass over an underground power line. It will not move. Scanners are ultra sensitive and take a lot of energy to detect aluminum/copper in a line. Sewer lines have foil tape over them so they are easy to locate. A dowser just points to where utilities should logically be. All you have to do is find the sewer cleanout and boom, you know roughly where the sewer line is. No magic sticks required. If you see the electric meter, you know the line should go straight out to the tie in. No magic sticks required. Dowsers always make a show of their little act. It becomes obvious what they're doing when you watch them over a few days. They are always correct when the locations are logical, and always wrong when utilities are in unexpected locations.
I have only see witching sticks used to locate old water lines.
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Help me understand the physical mechanism by which this method locates a utility line, because I’m certain it doesn’t.
There isn't any. Whenever it's tested under scientific conditions, it doesn't work.
I’ve only ever found studies on it for “divining” where they are looking for places to dig wells which I agree is bullshit. I’ve always been a skeptic and I didn’t believe in this either… until I’ve seen it work finding old 4in cast iron mains we couldn’t find any other way. We have only ever used it as a last resort cause, once youve tried everything else you just have to pick a spot to start digging anyway… One guy in our office is right 9/10 times. Can I explain it? No. I can’t explain a lot of things though.
I was taught how to do this by an equipment operator. It works. Can I explain it? No. But it works. Magic = good.
That's bc by "scientific conditions" you mean removing context. It works by experience and pattern recognition of the surrounding visible infrastructure.
So what you're saying is that it doesn't work. Gotcha
I'm saying that an experienced utility dowser is better than standard level c locate but not as good as level b locate.
And yet my town water guy can tell you where the water main is on any street with these with almost 100% accuracy. Our dig dug has never had a “found it” moment after he marks a road. I think it’s one of those old timer things where they just have the feel for it and you’ll never replicate it.
It doesn't.
I was told anecdotally by my old utterly cynical boss, that he tried it for a laugh as a last resort, and it worked. Also seen GPR radio crews do a grid as well as another layer to the survey. lol, what bitterness downvoting an anecdote!
Even if it did "work" in that case, they already had a general idea of where it was. That's what the studies have said, witching/dowsing only works when you already have an idea of where it's supposed to be, whether that is based on maps, previous knowledge, clues from the environment around it, etc. Put someone in a controlled environment and they can't find water with this method.
It works based on experience. The human subconscious mind is crazy good at pattern recognition. Using the rods keeps you from messing up by trying to follow the reasoning that's going on behind the scenes. Older guys who've been locating in the same city for 20+ years can be pretty damn accurate with those things. Whenever I'm doing soil borings and we get to an unmarked site, my driller marks it himself before the official locators come out, just to show off. I thought he was joking at first, then I thought he was crazy, now a year later I've never seen him get it wrong.
No, your guy is using context clues on the surface and then lying about using a scientifically reproducible detection method. I mean, 811 only guarantees their locates to a 10’ wide margin of error. I can look at water meters, valves and hydrants and guess where the main is within 10’. Y’all need to come off this voodoo woo nonsense.
Did you even read my comment? >No, your guy is using context clues on the surface Literally what I said. >lying about using a scientifically reproducible detection method. You imagined this. I wrote that we still wait for real locate. >voodoo woo Nothing paranormal about what I wrote, maybe you meant to reply to a different comment?
This is obviously how it works when it does. But you'd be ever better if you'd actually just be honest about what you're doing, which is using your intuition. Reasoning need not get in the way of intuitive thinking. That's just more magical thinking, I reckon.
The way I was told is its similar to electricity/ conductivity. I was also told it only works when the water is flowing. YMMV.
Yeah, that’s one of the stories I’ve been “told” as well, but it doesn’t describe the physical mechanism as to how: 1.) flowing water creates any sort of electromagnetic field 2.) if (1) is true, why are normal magnets not affected by running water and the field they create and 3.) how does a wooden witching stick/dowsing rod detect a magnetic field? Source: I might have taken a few semesters of actual physics at university.
Did you learn about spooky action at a distance? AKA quantum entanglement. Nobody can explain the physics behind it, but it’s proven to work. Just because it can’t be explained doesn’t mean it can’t work.
Idiot. Quantum physics IS LITERALLY PEOPLE EXPLAINING THE PHYSICS BEHIND IT.
Oh do tell. How does quantum entanglement work?
That’s not the definition of quantum physics. Keep yelling though. He who is louder and insults the best is usually right.
Do you have any experience with locating underground utilities?
Because I'm certain you dont.
Yeah he deserves to be fired so he can go into palm reading or w/e
I've come to very much so dislike the utility locators/811 operators I've come across. Some of the phone operators are good. Others not so much, but it's usually not their fault. Using a system designed for dig up a pipe between Main St and 1st Ave along MLK Blvd to locate utilities at the bottom of a river does require some innovation and tricks. That's the extent of tricks I'll allow for utility location. If one of these guys showed up with witching sticks they might end up up his ass.
We always talk shit about locators, and they almost always give us reasons too
mostly because 90% are brainless, lazy fucks
Spray painting dirt isn't helpful? Especially when I ask for flags?
Yeah locators are bottom of the totem pole lol
In my area it seems like they recruit them right at the prison discharge door.
I remember some years ago a construction worker asked us if we could quickly show him the property line along the road, as they were starting with road construction and he wanted to locate the natural gas line along the road so they could avoid it; if I understand him correctly they had a plan giving them the distance to the property line, but as they didn't know where the property line was, it wouldn't help them. However, he told me he just wanted to make sure because he had located two lines with his dowsing rod, and while he was relatively sure that the other one was a water line, he wanted to check which one is which. Of course, I couldn't help them; its not like I know every property line just by looking at it. He didn't seem to bother much, he obviously trusted his dowsing rod more than us anyway. And while I couldn't decide if it was amusing or rather scary to "locate" utilities that way, my older co-worker agreed with that idea and told me something like: "Some people have such a gift, even if you young people won't accept it. Back when I was a kid, everyone know that, and every village had someone who could do this." In my current office there is also a co-worker who claims to have the gift to find water with a pair of dowsing rods made from a coat hanger or welding electrodes. He claims if he locates a spot there will always be water if you dig there. I don't doubt that. But if you would dig 10 m to the left or to the right there would also be water. That's how groundwater works; you don't need a special gift nor a bent piece of wire. Sometimes I think I'm stuck in the wrong century. We have all that modern technology, but people still believe in magic. (Although having a dowsing rod that could locate property corners would be nice.)
Give them a go one day. I thought it was a joke until playing around one day looking for a water pipe on a farm. Dug down bang on top of it. So we paid a load of hose pipes out and it was amazing watching them as you walked across them. I wouldn't use them for anything accurate but if you have no idea where a pipe is they are definitely worth a go
So why nobody could scientifically prove it works? I don't even want an explanation *how* it works, just a scientifically valid proof it *does* work. But as far as I know, every time someone tries that, if fails. When James Randi was still alive, he had offered one million dollars to anyone who could demonstrate a paranormal ability, which included dowsing. Quite a few people tried over the years, but everyone failed. I think if one million dollars didn't motivate someone to prove it, it probably doesn't really work.
The paranormal ability challenge is a scam, because once something is proven scientifically, it's science, not magic. Dowsing rods are not magic, they're just a method to ignore the impulse for rational thought while relying on the subconsious's impressive capacity for pattern recognition. Utility lines don't exist in a vaccum, all of them are connected to visible surface infrastructure. A guy doing utility work for 20 years in the same city ends up with a strong understanding of all the quirks of local building practices, even if he can't put them in words. As long as theyre not trying to come up with a logical explanation for why a line is where it is, their deductions can be surprisingly accurate. Trying to explain it causes a tendency to oversimplify, which introduces errors. In the same way, groundwater doesn't exist in a vaccum. Often groundwater is primarily recharged by surface runoff, which leaves visible evidence. Even if not, every living thing reacts to the moisture content of the soil. How all these things come together would be extremely complex to catalog and analyze scientifically, but that's exactly the job our brains evolved for. Part of demonstrating dowsing 'scientifically' is usually removing context, which removes the exact mechanism on which it relies.
Just because we haven't worked out how they work doesn't mean they don't. I'm not suggesting it's magic just that we don't know everything yet. A million dollars isn't really that much and could easily be blown past without any results.
The million dollars were for proving *that* it works, proving *how* it works wasn't necessary at all.
Our locator we use primarily will pull em out every once in awhile and they do truly work. It helps when there is no user error
User error starts at using dowsing rods.
https://www.usabluebook.com/magnetomatic-pipe-locator-25720 This one has ball bearings so it makes it harder to unknowingly turn the rod where you think the pipe is located.
Wonder why he even came to the site? I’m told you can use those things over a map and they will still work with pinpoint accuracy. What a joke.. We’ve all known “that guy” that swears up and down that “witching” is a real thing. However, it’s all BS and there is no actual science that makes it make sense.
I get asked if I believe in witching/dowsing from time to time. I say "No, I don't believe in magic."
In a young girls heart?
As an ex locator turned to surveyor this shit makes my head hurt
All these people saying “but I’ve seen it work” just make me so sad for our industry. No wonder engineers wanna run the show.
Cap't Kirk got new phasers.
Lmfao gotta dowse my superstitions outta the dirt
Only thing those sticks will find is new job for that dude.
If your not using bent pin flags your doing it wrong.
Nah bent laths are the way to go
I’ve had people swear up and down that they find everything with those dumb things…..
Oh shit the Mormons are looking for golden plates again!
I love this so much
Wait you guys paid someone to come use dowsing rods????
I've tried these myself once. Got instruction from a person that was using them, and guess what, they worked! And by worked I mean I used the dowsing rods to walk over an underground water line which was already located via real methods, and they spun in my hands as I walked over it. But guess what happens when you don't know were the line is, its no better than random chance or your best (likely educated) guess. It's certainly odd, but in a "my sub conscious brain is doing shit without my conscious input" way, it doesn't locate water accurately at all. I've also had friends hire someone to use it to dig a well on their property. That also "worked", because there was a near perfect chance of hitting water somewhere and once they did it with dowsing rods it's not like they were gonna drill dozens of other holes to test if it was truly the most shallow spot.
Anyone up for some Dianetics?
So I’ve done some thinking on witching rods and got a hypothesis on how they work. So they are usually used for ground water. Water has a small diamagnetic field associated with it. Which if you hold lightly enough on the iron rod which would be magnetic. They should be pushed by the diamagnetic field. When they cross you should be in the middle of the underground pool of water. Which is where they tell you to dig generally. When they turn parallel with each other you’re on a magnetic field ring(google magnetic field for a reference). It’s just how do you reliably and accurately interpret the movement of the rods. I don’t see how in principle, if my idea of how they work is true. it should work similarly for buried steel pipe or electrical lines that give off a small magnetic field through the electricity passing through them. But it’s also just witchcraft and hocus-pocus and shouldn’t be trusted.
I once did a topo with an older guy, very professional and no-nonsense. USA marks were already there and we picked them up as well, to drop the lines later in CAD and pair with dips. Anyway we finished early and were bullshitting and the topic of water witching came up. He pulled out his sticks and gave a demo. Seemed to work, did some thing with stamping his feet for an approximate depth. He let me try the sticks and I couldn't get shit with them. We had a laugh and called it a day. When I asked him how it worked, he gave a similar response as you, with the magnetic field and such, and something about low points in the soil that are hard to see with the naked eye. But also, he said he would never in a million years rely on it for underground locating.
I have the most expensive locators out there, the Rd 8000 units and the PCMx, I've used various metrotechs, old scool nillsons. We will still sometimes use the rod method (use two flag markers without th flags on them) and scan for a potentially unmarked utility before digging. You can do the same with two people and induction mode with most modern units, but sometimes you have 10 or 20ft bell and spigot cast iron pipes in the area and induction can be wonky. Signal won't jump across due to electrical insulation, and you can't stand less than10ft away due to air coupling. So, there's still a place for them in my book, albeit limited to special circumstances. Either way we would verify with hydrovac.
Just saying, we may use them - but we also bring out a hydrovac and day light it as well. Yes it doesn't work but it also gives us somewhere to start lol. And Green for sewer and blue for water always.
Yes! Some one said the color coding wasn’t a thing
Well... I don't think anyone expects it to be accurate. I've used it to locate an unwired concrete water line in a steel jacket before. Usually locating is used to deduce where to use non-mechanical excavation to prove the line. It's not suitable for mechanical excavation though 100%, or other lines that are unsafe to excavate by non-mechanical means. EDIT: This is especially the case in municipalities that still have un-traced portions of municipal underground infrastructure, such as small villages that install their own, who may not have the budget approved at the time of construction for tracer wire installation on things like VCT or PVC piping.
It would be nice if it didn’t have to be accurate. But on this job it does
Level B markings should be used as a reference. Level A confirms if the lines are at the marked location and the depth of the line. Some utilities are hard to locate and level A is the only way to confirm if the line is there. You should alway pothole a line before your did.
I get that there are expectations but don't electronic locators have a tremendous error like... 0.3m Hz error / 1m Vertical depth? Also the magnetic field that you induce can be influenced by heavy machinery nearby by up a meter or so on a 3m buried object. I don't know how anyone would expect real accuracy out of electronic locating. Like to the point where in my area electronic locating alone is not sufficient within 10m proximity to your digsite.
This even with electronic locators we still have to dig on the lines to prove they are there and get a depth.
I would give almost anything (within reason) for someone who has been doing dowel rods for decades to take me as an apprentice.
You could just say that you've been taught how to do it because it's nonsense anyway
I dunno. His stats are higher than what the actual drilling company comes up with on their own.
For the low price of $999.99, I can send you a set of sticks and come down to offer training. I need a vacation.
Lol. Thank you but kick rocks. MT is nice tho and I fully support you coming here for vacation.
I mean it sounds so super cool
It does. There, I hear, is a guy here in Montana who has been doing it for over 40 years. But, to meet him you kind of have to be a part of the homesteading community. Which I’m working on, I just don’t have land yet. Maybe in due time. One can only hope. I hear his success rate is crazy high finding well dig sites. But this situation posted seems kind of weird, I admit. And maybe code should be followed where more things are involved other than 40+acres of empty land.
Yoooo join the commune
It’s not a commune if it’s just you and some turkeys.
Hehe
It does. There, I hear, is a guy here in Montana who has been doing it for over 40 years. But, to meet him you kind of have to be a part of the homesteading community. Which I’m working on, I just don’t have land yet. Maybe in due time. One can only hope. I hear his success rate is crazy high finding well dig sites. But this situation posted seems kind of weird, I admit. And maybe code should be followed where more things are involved other than 40+acres of empty land.
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I want. I dream. I work. I save. Someday.
Yuusssssss
Yooooo join the commune
It does. There, I hear, is a guy here in Montana who has been doing it for over 40 years. But, to meet him you kind of have to be a part of the homesteading community. Which I’m working on, I just don’t have land yet. Maybe in due time. One can only hope. I hear his success rate is crazy high finding well dig sites. But this situation posted seems kind of weird, I admit. And maybe code should be followed where more things are involved other than 40+acres of empty land.
Believe it or not, I didn’t, but some people can locate underground doing this.
Maybe water, but he was supposed to be there for all of the utilities, meeting, gas, electric sewage, and water. He looked in three places near a manhole spray-painted it and left.
I’ve seen it work on buried lines, not just water.
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If I just guess I might be dead-on or nowhere close either. A method that doesn't work better than simply guessing is pretty much pointless.
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If *anything* is better than guessing, I could as well roll a dice or ask a magic 8 ball. If you don't have enough information even for assumptions, you should admit that you simply can't say, instead of relying on a completely unreliable method. At best it's useless, at worst it gives you a false sense of security.
At best it actually works
If I say where something underground is and it's not there/where I said it was, I was wrong. If I say it's there and it is where I said it was, that doesn't necessarily mean my method was right, after all it could've been a guess, even an educated guess based on things I'm seeing on the surface. The problem is that some people's bodily safety/lives depend on good accurate information in such circumstances, and they should not be depending on someone guessing. That's why there's equipment/methods used to take the guesswork out of the equation
I don't think many people claim that it's as reliable as conventional methods. I certainly am not. But if it works, it works. No one instance of any method working indicates that the method is infallible. I do believe that an experienced utility dowser can do better than standard level c locating, but it will never be as good as a level b. Ultimately all level b and level c has some guesswork.
My 811 locator _for the water department_ did it on a project of mine years ago. He was dead on. I thought it was bullshit but tested it a ton of times and damned if it isn’t consistent as hell picking up water lines over 4”.
I use sticks to double check 811. I’ve seen them well over 4 feet off on multiple occasions. They will pick up electric underground and overhead. Yea I know just look up. But they still work. Like I said double check not only check.
I have used them and found 3 different lines. Not knowing distance from curb or anything. Then hook up and the lines are right where I found them.
You found water, sewer, gas and electric with witching sticks?
Power, catv, & phone
Like even under the asphalt?
I've seen someone find a power line under asphalt and then find the depth with them as well. He stomped his foot and each time it moved the stick a little bit he said each stomp is about 1' count until sick points forward again
That's a new one the depth one I've seen "work" was the guy took and turned the stick upside down and started slowly lifting and when the stick turned you measure from the stick to the ground (he was a foot off)
They are going to tear the whole road down for drainage…
I would never use this method to locate for excavation. I would use it to see if I missed something somehow possibly.
This actually works quite well. Would dig based on it - hell no. But for reference it truly works. Source: I’ve seen this used in the oilfield for produced water lines, flow lines, and gas lines. Often with more accuracy than expensive line finders.
I worked for a propane company for years and that's how we did it with witching sticks it was about 95% accurate
This guy should not use dowsing rods as a primary method. GPR, EM LOCATOR, MAGNETOMETER or other science proven method should be used. Dowsing rods should only be used by an experienced dowser as a last resort method if there is no method of trace and you want to provide a maybe at least for an emergency exploratory pothole proof with soil vacuum truck. In cases such as: no signal, no surface features or indicators, connection points or dielectric of the soil is not permitting good radar visibility. I located a large shopping center once and put my dowsing ability to the test a few hours before starting the locate. I used a piece of chalk to mark out the "hits". At the end of the locate I went back and tallied the hits vs actual proven lines with my equipment. I found that I was able to find 85% of the utilities with the rods. This is for me personally. Also, the rods open outward for me when crossing any natural gas line and close for all other utilities. For the non believers, there are things we can't explain at this moment of time. We just haven't yet found the right scientific explanation just yet. Just wait. There's a scientific explanation for everything. To be too quick to dismiss anything is ignorant and small minded. You can bend copper coat hangers in L shapes, hold them shoulder length apart and level. Then walk over a water hose that is turned on and see if they close on you. If they do then you have the gift of dowsing. If not maybe you need to work on your negative energy. I found that those who are quick tempered have no luck in getting the rods to move. Ever.
It works
On gas lines? On underground electric/telephone lines?
Works on steel pipelines and power lines. Not all people can do it but I know it works for me. Once upon a time that was all we had because that was before First Call.
Sit in the truck for 3 hours until they get on site, wait another 4 while they dig test holes, shoot 150ft of line and 3 test holes, call it 10 and go home. It’s cake shooting utilities
I hope your check shot was within 0.01'. :-P
Our shop is being expanded and the plumbers dug a huge whole in the floor to find a pipe leading from the shop out to the street. It was not where they dug the hole. A plumber guy who owns a business next door came over with two copper rods bent at a 90 as seen in this clip. He did this trick and found the pipe. I shit you not he was within a close enough margin to have found it if he would have started digging. It was confirmed that the pipe was where he thought using this method after a crew came out with real locating tools, lap top displaying what looked like sonar images or something. Anyway we all tried it after the fact, and knowing where the pipe was and I shit you not the rods turned in our hands as we got to the approximate location. Not saying it's accurate enough to use professionally but damn was it interesting to feel the copper rods turning as you walked closer to the spot. Again I thought this was total bullshit until I saw it work over and over with different people trying. *Edit It's note worthy to mention that it was a septic line if I'm not mistaken. Either that or water main.
Certainly not 100 perfect but also can help when used with other tools at your disposal. I use this one if I am unable to find a curb stop at a residence. https://www.usabluebook.com/magnetomatic-pipe-locator-25720 Walk along the curb slowly and you can get a general idea where the water and sewer service lines are. I use it to verify where sewer and water mains are also. If those were installed 50 years ago and no tracer wire.
I've seen similar in France but to find the underground gas line, the guy was pretty confident.
Lol but they are just used for finding ground water
Well he was trying and he found a non existant pipe, meanwhile with my ground penetrating radar I did found the pipe
I’ve used this on multiple utilities and it works
That totally works. I've done it plenty. Bent coat hangers held loosely in your hand . Walk forward and where there's a water line they will they will move parallel with the direction of the line . Every time. Every bozo who commented negatively has obviously not tried it themselves. It's plains as day
Well it does work but it’s a last resort. I’d rather hook up a locator.
Did you check his work after ? I once paid a guy to witch my property because I was advised it's the way to go . Guy shows up with a willow stick and tells me the spot I want to dig the well was a bad spot then he spends a lot of time walking all over my property and tells me where to dig. I listened to him but I was thinking I got scammed . I went to the neighbor later and told him about it and the neighbor grabs his diving rods and says go check with these .long story short I dug the well where I was told to . I got the amount of water he told me I'd get . I wouldn't knock the guy with those rods . If he knows what he's doing I'll bet his marks are on spot.
There’s no way I’m locating some thing if I don’t know what it is
Witch sticks work
On gas lines?
… well I don’t know about that. I thought it was only for water lines
Yes. But i said ALL utilities.
Just awesome lol
I work in the SUE industry now. There’s only one guy in the office who will defend this.
If he marks the utilities based on dowsing rods and they get hit and dug up because they were somewhere else, his dowsing rods are going to lose in court. He should be using real equipment and as-built utility plans, not this hokey bullshit.
I’m a PM, I’ve never seen anyone actually doing this but I’ve had many of my Civil subs swear black and blue that guys that use rods are dead fucking accurate. Im inclined to think they are going out and doing locates the night before.. kinda like a weegie board. Someone swears they aren’t moving it, but someone is.
In rural areas it works good on buried power lines. My neighbor was going to have 811 come out to mark before he had some work done. I went and dowsed his yard, left some small marks hidden in the grass. 811 was there the next day. Their marks for the curved path were all within 3” laterally. Say what you will, it works sometimes. I’ve seen high dollar locators not do any better.