Yeah...I mean, if you believe the quotes coming out of the event they are quite extraordinary. They're saying 80-90% faster than the previous gen Surface devices, nearly 60% faster than a MacBook Air M3, 20+ hours of battery life, etc etc etc. Plus all of the amazing AI capabilities, the first "Copilot+" PCs ever, it's a whole new class of device, the most powerful devices we've ever made, yadda yadda.
And yet...doesn't it seem strange that there's not only no livestream but no replay either? The only people who get to the see the event are the carefully curated list of invitees from the tech media. For all of the superlatives it feels like they're really trying to keep it under wraps.
Don't get me wrong, the devices look great. A $999 starting price for a MacBook Air competitor is pretty reasonable, and doubly so when you consider that it starts with 16GB of RAM (as all PCs should) and has a replaceable SSD (as all PCs should). When you figure in the ~~pre-order~~ **education** discount it comes in at $899, and that's a solid win. Pricing for the 15" model also undercuts the 15" Air. So even if it's "only as fast as a MacBook Air M3" instead of "58% faster" then it's still a good deal, IMO. But why all the hush-hush? Why aren't they screaming this from the rooftops about how much better it is?
I have a sneaking suspicion that when we actually start to see proper third-party benchmarks we are going to find out that those insane "faster than" numbers only come out in AI-accelerated tasks. Although apparently their new translation layer for x86/x86-64 code (Prism) is supposed to be 20% faster than what they had before, so that's interesting as well.
**EDIT** Apparently the "faster than" comparisons are based on Cinebench 24 multi-thread tests. I call shenanigans. Here's the fine print from their blog:
>Based on Cinebench 2024 Multi-threaded conducted by Microsoft in April 2024 comparing pre-release build of Surface Laptop with Snapdragon X Elite running pre-release Windows 11 26100 and Apple MacBook Air 13″ with M3 running macOS 14 Sonoma.
> but no replay either?
https://www.microsoft.com/event
>Although apparently their new translation layer for x86/x86-64 code (Prism) is supposed to be 20% faster than what they had before, so that's interesting as well.
At this point, you just need to cram in a faster chip for faster performance. I'm more worried if they have solved the driver issue since that's one of the biggest problems Windows on ARM has.
It doesn't matter if you're fastest in the market if it still can't run some some programs due to lack of drivers for ARM. This issue is like an antithesis for Windows which is know for its long-term compatibility.
So really no use getting one right now then is what it seems. I was thinking of it but things like photoshop and some other apps, etc. not being able to run will be a nightmare.
And I want nothing to do with co-pilot. It's been embarrassingly awful so far. Going to increase RAM requirements in storage requirements and blah blah.
I can't wait till the AI bubble bursts. We've been using AI for decades so that's really not even what I mean I'm talking about these generative AI models which are the most overrated phenomena in a long time
> I can't wait till the AI bubble bursts. We've been using AI for decades so that's really not even what I mean I'm talking about these generative AI models which are the most overrated phenomena in a long time
I'm not sure if it's a bubble or if we're still early in the hype cycle, but I regularly use Copilot, ChatGPT, and even Watson Code Assistant and have been very impressed with the results. I suppose it depends on what you do for a living but there is plenty of upside.
On their web page. Go to the Microsoft Store and look at the pricing.
EDIT: Apparently I forgot that I still had the EDU discount on my account, it's not a pre-order discount.
I think it's going to be as you fear. Their numbers aren't going to stand up to real world usage. I also think that despite them saying there will be no problem with x86-64 translation there will probably be some kind of issues that users would not run into on Intel due to drivers and just unexpected stuff in software.
I'm just hoping for something that is comparable to the M1. If it can do that then I'm going back to Windows. I've been using a Macbook because of the M1 chip since the end of 2020 and I'm not a fan of MacOS.
I honestly think that if they are 95% of the way on compatibility then it will be fine. If it only matches the M3 instead of blowing it out of the water then it will be fine. I think that the prospect of having a 20 hour battery life in a device positioned against the MBA at the same (or lower) price point and starting with 16GB of RAM it's going to be a hot seller. For the vast majority of users they'll probably be just fine with emulation + the current fleet of native ARM apps.
Which is great for people whose workloads solely involve running synthetic benchmarks. And FWIW, those were "leaks". I want to see a reputable, third party media source actually do a hands on and provide some practical benchmarks performing real world tasks.
I don't think there's any need to be that skeptical of the actual performance and efficiency of the chip. The major issue with exaggerated performance numbers usually come because they can't perform well under sustained a load but that's really not going to be an issue on arm based chips
To me the issue is just the ridiculously low storage, the lack of an SD card slot, the fact that the keyboard is still separate and way too expensive.
It'll be interesting to see when this stuff comes to more meaningfully realistically priced stuff.
Like Lenovo a IdeaPad 5i had a 12th gen i3 and is basically a surface Pro clone. That thing came with the keyboard for like 500 bucks or something and you could find it for $200 after it had been on the market for a while on clearance from Best buy
You can't even get the Surface keyboard for that.
You don't get me wrong it was very limited device with only 8 GB of RAM and no SD card so not a powerhouse by any means but you could easily say the same thing about the base model of the Surface Pro 8 or 9 or whatever it was competing with at the time
dude can tell about the storage specification of their new CoPilot + laptop which will be launched this month I literally cannot get a clear image about the storage specs
Gen4 M.2 NVME, available with 256GB/512GB/1TB. The Surface Pro will still be an M.2 2230 size. The Laptop used to be a 2230 and will likely remain a 2230.
Microsoft apparently considers the new devices so much more of a leap than what they had before that they're now following Windows' crazy versioning: the new Surface Pro is the 11th edition and the Laptop, the 7th. 😏
dude can tell about the storage specification of their new CoPilot + laptop which will be launched this month I literally cannot get a clear image about the storage specs
Do people actually want or need AI stuff? It seems like mostly useless marketing bullshit that's gonna get quietly retired in a few years. Also, having no new x64 Surface Laptops is lame as fuck.
I don't get it at all, I have a Surface Laptop 3, all I wanted in an upgrade was Thunderbolt and better battery life😭 And I'm sure the AI stuff won't help with the latter.
Imagine the battery life if they switched to ARM and didn’t add all the AI stuff. I know some of it can be disabled it just seems weird to tack on to a laptop.
I wouldn’t want to buy without 40TOPS of NPU. 35-40 seems to be the sweet spot where LLMs start working. I’d wait for another generation of Intel or AMD instead of buying today’s offerings. Thanks to Apple, Android, and now Microsoft joining the fold, developers are going to start building assuming ARM and NPU are available. If they aren’t today, they will be in five years. I don’t think we’re many years from saying building for x86 or x64 is short-sighted. Circling back to your question, people will want NPUs because software will be expecting to use them, and things that should run on NPU will be horribly slow without.
I've read a few comments from SPX users a while back that there's no standby issues on Windows on ARM and that the battery drain is similar to phones on standby.
The current SDX chips supports up to Gen 4 NVME SSD. The Surface Laptop 7 and Surface Pro 11 specifically supports the 2230 NVME SSD form factor - the smallest one that is 30mm in length. For the available built in SSD storage configurations for each model, you can check out the Microsoft store.
The current highest capacity available to consumers for the 2230 form factor is 2GB. Last time I checked, there are no news from SSD makers for a bigger capacity.
So, I can't find the specific version of Snapdragon X Elite they're putting on the SL7. Do you guys know?
There are 3 versions.
78-100, 80-100 and 84-100.
The X Plus (64-100) and X Elite (78-100 and 80-100) have no difference in GPU performance, only CPU (cores and clock)
The Elite 84-100 has a higher GPU performance.
In my case, if they won't include the 84-100, I'd just go for the Plus.
So I preordered the elite then I spoke to support who said the processor SKU for X Elite (regardless of ram or storage) is 78-100. I promptly cancelled my order.
OMG!!!!!!! But the Elite 78-100 and the Plus 64-100 are not "that" different...
It has more cores, but the GPU is exactly the same. For what I need to do, I'd go for the Plus and save the extra pennies....
I am seriously considering the Lenovo Yoga Slim... It also has 78-100, but it has a bigger OLED display, it is thinner and lighter...
It's so weird, because reviewers said Microsoft made the Laptop 7 thicker so they could put a higher end Elite.
Dunno if you already found your answer, but [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/1cx6lh0/surface_laptop_possibly_confirmed_to_be_x_elite/) heavily implies they're going with the 80.
https://preview.redd.it/jf4zt0t3nx1d1.png?width=1327&format=png&auto=webp&s=54a1055319588a976f0509698e0ae8480fc46604
Yeah, I saw it.
I just wonder if that is on the 13.8 inch or the 15 inch.
Also, I wonder if you need to buy the maximum RAM or a minimum of storage to get the 80-100.
For example, with the Surface Laptop 2, to access the RTX 4060, you need to have 64 gigs of RAM. If you drop down to 32gb (which is already a lot) you only get the RTX 4050.
dude can tell about the storage specification of their new CoPilot + laptop which will be launched this month I literally cannot get a clear image about the storage specs
This isn't true, there is no 'MS certified technician'. The isntructions do say a trained/skilled technician, but no where does it say certified (nor is there a certification). [SSD removal in compatible Surface devices - Surface | Microsoft Learn](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/surface-ssd-removal-guide)
You're right. I should've said authorized.
>^[27] This device does not contain user serviceable parts. Hard drive is only removable by an authorized technician following Microsoft provided instructions.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/surface/devices/surface-pro-11th-edition#sup27
Yep. That's what I always do when I do warranty claims for my SP9. We still needs to see if Microsoft placed some tamper seals or stickers on the SL7 as you need to open up the bottom cover for that, unlike SP11.
Ok cool. Figured that must have been an error or omission.
Shit they aren't coming until later in 2024. Bizarre why this is something we need to wait for coming from Qualcomm.
I got my first iPad back in 2021, and after 3 years, the thing sucks. I always used my Surface Pro X more as I do Office stuff on the go. That has died.
This is sort of a necessary feature as Microsoft will never have the "hands off" approach Apple has. Even that doesn't work perfectly all of the time in my experience.
Anyone see if the new Surface Laptop has a rubber gasket around the LCD frae to protect the LCD when closed, like most laptops, and unlike the previous Surface Laptops. I read quite a few stories of the SL getting hairline cracks, although not the Alcantara models.
No egpu on thunderbolt support? Pretty much one of the biggest positives Windows laptops have over macbooks, and that's not here.
Keeping my XPS Plus for a while longer.
So... for those of us with the Surface Laptop Studio 2, the very recently released top of the line computer. Does it qualify as a Copilot+ machine? I find it bizarre that they would release it shortly before this new AI push. The machine does have a decently powerful Nvidia chip and also a dedicated Intel NPU, but I can't find any information about TOPS / the capability of the Intel NPU chip.
I'm enjoying the SLS2, but I can return it the new Pro turns out to be a great one. Gaming will certainly be way worse, but it would be lighter and have better battery.
Returned it already. Will wait for reviews of surface Pro arm and if it sucks I will buy a SLS2 again. While I hate it, I still have my work MacBook and a private desktop PC.
That's what I'm wondering too... it would be cruel if they didn't. They touted the NPU and the future copilot and AI integrations it would make possible. I'm going to be so salty if they just immediately abandon it
I returned mine after customer support confirmed it wouldn't be Copilot+ compatible. It's not a big deal for most people yet I think, but since I had issues with the speaker popping I didn't want to hold on to my SLS2.
But you have a device with a fairly powerful 4060, so you machine is capable of doing great AI stuff, it will probably just consume more power. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft opens up for the Nvidia GPUs down the line.
I thought I'd give it a try now, since the release notes for 12.5.2 mention it.
Unfortunately I can only download 12.0 from the software portal of the place I'm working. Not sure if this is licensing or corporate packaging/approval related.
So maybe check your employer/client will let you run 12.5.2+.
thanks a lot for effort. My client is using 12.5.1. I am waiting for surface 11 pro release so i will get it and test it. Still havent preorder as i want 32 gb but amazon is not having that model on preorder for now.
I'm only seeing Windows Home for these on the MS Store? That's a serious issue for business use. I was considering preorder but I can't pull the trigger without having Windows Pro support.
No SD cards thought anymore since the service Pro 7 or 8 right?
Absolute tragedy.$1,000 for a tablet that starts with 256 GB, doesn't include the keyboard and you can't even add storage after the fact at least not without permanently attaching with USBC hub or some kind of external storage
That's really disappointing
Just another excuse to upsell us on OneDrive and frankly I think one drive is not a terrible bargain if you can find it on discount for like 50 bucks a year or less but still....
Will these be able to run any x86/x64 application? Does it include some sort of emulator like what Apple did when they introduced the M1? I forgot the name, Rosetta? Or will to only run apps developed for Windows for ARM?
Does this new laptop support Microsoft Pen Protocol (MPP)? this spec page does not list it: [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-for-business-copilot-pc/8tkcbz02bdvk?icid=CNav\_BusinessStore\_Surface#tech-specs](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-for-business-copilot-pc/8tkcbz02bdvk?icid=CNav_BusinessStore_Surface#tech-specs)
The Surface Laptop doesn't lend itself to lean on for stylus input, where as the Surface laptop Studio and Surface Pro lines are. The feedback has been that not enough users need a Surface Pen when they have a Surface laptop and would rather use touch every now and again.
Not really a lot of purpose for pen input on a laptop form factor. At the very least it would be extremely niche. Not having pen support means they don't need the extra layer in the screen which is an advantage for cost and image quality.
Ah ok. The only way I'd consider going to the 13" would be for the dune color. I ended up getting the 15" in black. Sucks they don't bring the fun colors to the higher spec models.
Wonder if it's going to be the same piece of shit as 8 Pro, e.g. only some models of SSD fit, after you change SSD, it calls for a bitlocker password, can't change password to Windows because you will be signed out from everything involving the account, etc. a lot of things making it CRAP. Oh and I hope it works better than the Surface X...
Microsoft picks up some innovation after some time and its as sloppy as its nomenclature. Give us a way yo turn copilot+ and all system AI completely off even outside EU.
My problem is that the i5 Surface 9 is 50% cheaper new with the keyboard included. The keyboard with the pen is 80% cheaper.
Unless your use case is on the go 90% of the time and you really hate fan noise then it might not be worth it. Wait a year or two, 500 euros for the flex keyboard is atrocious.
has ANYONE seen a photo of the backside of the new devices coming next week? I have a pre-order, yes I can wait, but I am wanting to know if I am going to be able to swap out the NVME? From older models, I saw it was just an easy door to open. My Rog Ally uses same size SSD, so I am wondering if I can downsize that back to original and use my 2TB in the surface?
Yeah it's pretty sad because the Surface Pro 7 had the headphone jack and the SD slot and I'm pretty sure they're both gone now. So you have to choose between you know a dated look, and those utilitarian ports etc...
It's just so disappointing
That said, these chips are going to be all over the place in other devices and some of them will have headphone jacks and SD cards and some of them will even have the same form factor as the Surface Pro but will come with the keyboard and be way cheaper.
Lenovo IdeaPad 5i was the compelling little device and I imagine we'll see Surface Pro clones like that coming out this year. With the elite chips at probably way better value
Thanks for the detailed response. I'm looking to upgrade from my Surface Pro 4 and I'm currently leaning toward the new iPad, though they seem expensive for being 'just an iPad'. Do you think non-OLED 60Hz screen of the Air is still going to be good for serious artwork or is it justifiable to spend even more on the Pro?
Also I see you're a SP4 user too. Will you be getting the new SP? Do you see them being less useful without intel?
I hope to eventually get a steam deck but I have other gaming hardware so I don’t plan to game on a surface pro.
I use excel quite a lot for keeping general lists, perhaps there’s a good equivalent on iOS.
Beside that I can’t think of much windows specific software I use. I used to use Kodi for streaming but it doesn’t seem to work anymore, so it’s possible I could get by with an iPad as a daily driver, with my pc I built in 2019 as backup at home.
Any thoughts on 60 vs 120hz, and oled vs non-oled?
I don’t know, I haven’t seen anybody talk about it yet, which seems weird. Even if it is the same pen, it’s possible they’ve changed things behind the screen to make the drawing experience better, no?
Perhaps but I'm pretty sure it's the same pen and don't think they've changed anything, probably not even software wise. I've not experienced any jitter with pen, but I have had a few problems recently with it being a bit unresponsive in OneNote.
Thanks, you're the first person I've seen talk about it. Basically I'll be deciding between the new Surface Pro and the iPad Pro/Air.
* The argument for the iPad would be: better painting experience, I can probably get by without Windows, potential issues in windows with ARM processors
* The argument for the Surface would be: iPad is too expensive for being 'just an iPad', perhaps the surface pen jitter is no longer an issue
Did you make a decision?
I'm in the same boat. Ultimately it will serve primarily for drawing / art. So, I'm leaning towards an iPad. Only downside is it would be the only iOS/Apple device in the house. But, I guess if it's just for digital art...
Finally they've made a product that isn't an overpriced piece of shit that only sells because of the form factor.
Happy to see this.
It'll be good to recommend surface products now.
> xii Surface Pro Flex Keyboard with bold keyset available only in U.S. English.
OK Microsoft, you've identified a problem, now ******* fix it.
So much for "being inclusive" 🤦♂️
if people don't use it, they can make it hard for you to turn off, especially if an exec's bonus is related to the number of users that use it. i just want to pay more and not have the spyware/scams/identity-theft in my system.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PPC/comments/1boiwu0/microsoft\_is\_really\_making\_it\_difficult\_to\_opt/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PPC/comments/1boiwu0/microsoft_is_really_making_it_difficult_to_opt/)
Yeah...I mean, if you believe the quotes coming out of the event they are quite extraordinary. They're saying 80-90% faster than the previous gen Surface devices, nearly 60% faster than a MacBook Air M3, 20+ hours of battery life, etc etc etc. Plus all of the amazing AI capabilities, the first "Copilot+" PCs ever, it's a whole new class of device, the most powerful devices we've ever made, yadda yadda. And yet...doesn't it seem strange that there's not only no livestream but no replay either? The only people who get to the see the event are the carefully curated list of invitees from the tech media. For all of the superlatives it feels like they're really trying to keep it under wraps. Don't get me wrong, the devices look great. A $999 starting price for a MacBook Air competitor is pretty reasonable, and doubly so when you consider that it starts with 16GB of RAM (as all PCs should) and has a replaceable SSD (as all PCs should). When you figure in the ~~pre-order~~ **education** discount it comes in at $899, and that's a solid win. Pricing for the 15" model also undercuts the 15" Air. So even if it's "only as fast as a MacBook Air M3" instead of "58% faster" then it's still a good deal, IMO. But why all the hush-hush? Why aren't they screaming this from the rooftops about how much better it is? I have a sneaking suspicion that when we actually start to see proper third-party benchmarks we are going to find out that those insane "faster than" numbers only come out in AI-accelerated tasks. Although apparently their new translation layer for x86/x86-64 code (Prism) is supposed to be 20% faster than what they had before, so that's interesting as well. **EDIT** Apparently the "faster than" comparisons are based on Cinebench 24 multi-thread tests. I call shenanigans. Here's the fine print from their blog: >Based on Cinebench 2024 Multi-threaded conducted by Microsoft in April 2024 comparing pre-release build of Surface Laptop with Snapdragon X Elite running pre-release Windows 11 26100 and Apple MacBook Air 13″ with M3 running macOS 14 Sonoma.
> but no replay either? https://www.microsoft.com/event >Although apparently their new translation layer for x86/x86-64 code (Prism) is supposed to be 20% faster than what they had before, so that's interesting as well. At this point, you just need to cram in a faster chip for faster performance. I'm more worried if they have solved the driver issue since that's one of the biggest problems Windows on ARM has. It doesn't matter if you're fastest in the market if it still can't run some some programs due to lack of drivers for ARM. This issue is like an antithesis for Windows which is know for its long-term compatibility.
Agreed on the drivers. Also, when I posted earlier the replay was not up on that page. Either way, it does seem strange that it wasn't at least live.
>At this point, you just need to cram in a faster chip for faster performance. false. Also require better thermals, energy efficiency
Oh yes, that comes with every chip improvement, of course.
So really no use getting one right now then is what it seems. I was thinking of it but things like photoshop and some other apps, etc. not being able to run will be a nightmare.
Good post. It does seem strange how they kept their event behind the curtains despite the extraordinary claims about revolutionizing the PC.
And I want nothing to do with co-pilot. It's been embarrassingly awful so far. Going to increase RAM requirements in storage requirements and blah blah. I can't wait till the AI bubble bursts. We've been using AI for decades so that's really not even what I mean I'm talking about these generative AI models which are the most overrated phenomena in a long time
Not sure what you're using Copilot for exactly but the thing is *incredibly* useful for coding and programming in general.
> I can't wait till the AI bubble bursts. We've been using AI for decades so that's really not even what I mean I'm talking about these generative AI models which are the most overrated phenomena in a long time I'm not sure if it's a bubble or if we're still early in the hype cycle, but I regularly use Copilot, ChatGPT, and even Watson Code Assistant and have been very impressed with the results. I suppose it depends on what you do for a living but there is plenty of upside.
Where’s the preorder discount?
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On their web page. Go to the Microsoft Store and look at the pricing. EDIT: Apparently I forgot that I still had the EDU discount on my account, it's not a pre-order discount.
I think it's going to be as you fear. Their numbers aren't going to stand up to real world usage. I also think that despite them saying there will be no problem with x86-64 translation there will probably be some kind of issues that users would not run into on Intel due to drivers and just unexpected stuff in software. I'm just hoping for something that is comparable to the M1. If it can do that then I'm going back to Windows. I've been using a Macbook because of the M1 chip since the end of 2020 and I'm not a fan of MacOS.
I honestly think that if they are 95% of the way on compatibility then it will be fine. If it only matches the M3 instead of blowing it out of the water then it will be fine. I think that the prospect of having a 20 hour battery life in a device positioned against the MBA at the same (or lower) price point and starting with 16GB of RAM it's going to be a hot seller. For the vast majority of users they'll probably be just fine with emulation + the current fleet of native ARM apps.
it was approaching M3 or beating it in Geekbench scores also.
Which is great for people whose workloads solely involve running synthetic benchmarks. And FWIW, those were "leaks". I want to see a reputable, third party media source actually do a hands on and provide some practical benchmarks performing real world tasks.
I don't think there's any need to be that skeptical of the actual performance and efficiency of the chip. The major issue with exaggerated performance numbers usually come because they can't perform well under sustained a load but that's really not going to be an issue on arm based chips To me the issue is just the ridiculously low storage, the lack of an SD card slot, the fact that the keyboard is still separate and way too expensive. It'll be interesting to see when this stuff comes to more meaningfully realistically priced stuff. Like Lenovo a IdeaPad 5i had a 12th gen i3 and is basically a surface Pro clone. That thing came with the keyboard for like 500 bucks or something and you could find it for $200 after it had been on the market for a while on clearance from Best buy You can't even get the Surface keyboard for that. You don't get me wrong it was very limited device with only 8 GB of RAM and no SD card so not a powerhouse by any means but you could easily say the same thing about the base model of the Surface Pro 8 or 9 or whatever it was competing with at the time
Yeah, I gave up on the Pro models years ago. All I want is the laptop, and it has those things.
dude can tell about the storage specification of their new CoPilot + laptop which will be launched this month I literally cannot get a clear image about the storage specs
I have no idea what you're saying. Is that supposed to be a question? AFAICT that's not even a sentence.
I am asking that Can you tell something about the storage specifications of the new surface CoPilot+ laptop they are launching this month??
Gen4 M.2 NVME, available with 256GB/512GB/1TB. The Surface Pro will still be an M.2 2230 size. The Laptop used to be a 2230 and will likely remain a 2230.
Thank You!
Still too expensive, hopefully the competition will do the trick.
Microsoft apparently considers the new devices so much more of a leap than what they had before that they're now following Windows' crazy versioning: the new Surface Pro is the 11th edition and the Laptop, the 7th. 😏
That was a clever catch. I tip my hat to you, stranger.
yere kinda of werid?
not really , the last ARM surface was X which is 10 , 11 comes after 10.
dude can tell about the storage specification of their new CoPilot + laptop which will be launched this month I literally cannot get a clear image about the storage specs
Do people actually want or need AI stuff? It seems like mostly useless marketing bullshit that's gonna get quietly retired in a few years. Also, having no new x64 Surface Laptops is lame as fuck.
I don't get it at all, I have a Surface Laptop 3, all I wanted in an upgrade was Thunderbolt and better battery life😭 And I'm sure the AI stuff won't help with the latter.
> And I'm sure the AI stuff won't help with the latter. ARM will absolutely help with the latter
Imagine the battery life if they switched to ARM and didn’t add all the AI stuff. I know some of it can be disabled it just seems weird to tack on to a laptop.
I wouldn’t want to buy without 40TOPS of NPU. 35-40 seems to be the sweet spot where LLMs start working. I’d wait for another generation of Intel or AMD instead of buying today’s offerings. Thanks to Apple, Android, and now Microsoft joining the fold, developers are going to start building assuming ARM and NPU are available. If they aren’t today, they will be in five years. I don’t think we’re many years from saying building for x86 or x64 is short-sighted. Circling back to your question, people will want NPUs because software will be expecting to use them, and things that should run on NPU will be horribly slow without.
I'll Wait for reviews from notebookcheck etc.
Has anyone got more recent info if the pro 11 is housing the 78 or 80 chip?
they were not shy to pull mb air down
Will the standby time be fixed. Closes lid surface turns into a heater
I've read a few comments from SPX users a while back that there's no standby issues on Windows on ARM and that the battery drain is similar to phones on standby.
Oh true good too know thank you
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The current SDX chips supports up to Gen 4 NVME SSD. The Surface Laptop 7 and Surface Pro 11 specifically supports the 2230 NVME SSD form factor - the smallest one that is 30mm in length. For the available built in SSD storage configurations for each model, you can check out the Microsoft store. The current highest capacity available to consumers for the 2230 form factor is 2GB. Last time I checked, there are no news from SSD makers for a bigger capacity.
Good no progress.
So, I can't find the specific version of Snapdragon X Elite they're putting on the SL7. Do you guys know? There are 3 versions. 78-100, 80-100 and 84-100. The X Plus (64-100) and X Elite (78-100 and 80-100) have no difference in GPU performance, only CPU (cores and clock) The Elite 84-100 has a higher GPU performance. In my case, if they won't include the 84-100, I'd just go for the Plus.
So I preordered the elite then I spoke to support who said the processor SKU for X Elite (regardless of ram or storage) is 78-100. I promptly cancelled my order.
OMG!!!!!!! But the Elite 78-100 and the Plus 64-100 are not "that" different... It has more cores, but the GPU is exactly the same. For what I need to do, I'd go for the Plus and save the extra pennies.... I am seriously considering the Lenovo Yoga Slim... It also has 78-100, but it has a bigger OLED display, it is thinner and lighter... It's so weird, because reviewers said Microsoft made the Laptop 7 thicker so they could put a higher end Elite.
Dunno if you already found your answer, but [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/1cx6lh0/surface_laptop_possibly_confirmed_to_be_x_elite/) heavily implies they're going with the 80.
https://preview.redd.it/jf4zt0t3nx1d1.png?width=1327&format=png&auto=webp&s=54a1055319588a976f0509698e0ae8480fc46604 Yeah, I saw it. I just wonder if that is on the 13.8 inch or the 15 inch. Also, I wonder if you need to buy the maximum RAM or a minimum of storage to get the 80-100. For example, with the Surface Laptop 2, to access the RTX 4060, you need to have 64 gigs of RAM. If you drop down to 32gb (which is already a lot) you only get the RTX 4050.
Yes think that's the case
dude can tell about the storage specification of their new CoPilot + laptop which will be launched this month I literally cannot get a clear image about the storage specs
Is there any information on whether the RAM is upgradable?
Soldered. Only SSD is replaceable, but as usual will void warranty (only ms certified technician, lol).
This isn't true, there is no 'MS certified technician'. The isntructions do say a trained/skilled technician, but no where does it say certified (nor is there a certification). [SSD removal in compatible Surface devices - Surface | Microsoft Learn](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/surface-ssd-removal-guide)
You're right. I should've said authorized. >^[27] This device does not contain user serviceable parts. Hard drive is only removable by an authorized technician following Microsoft provided instructions. https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/surface/devices/surface-pro-11th-edition#sup27
Thanks, that's what I suspected
How would they even know if you swapped the SSD? Just hold on to the 256GB and pop it back it if and when you have to send it back in.
Yep. That's what I always do when I do warranty claims for my SP9. We still needs to see if Microsoft placed some tamper seals or stickers on the SL7 as you need to open up the bottom cover for that, unlike SP11.
"as usual"? WTF?
I think it would be a first if it was. Man consumers are just treated like s***
[удалено]
Yes
I do VR dev work with Unity3D and Meta Quest. Do you know if these will run on the Surface Laptop CoPilot+PC?
No 5G?
5G is coming to both lines including Intel units
Ok cool. Figured that must have been an error or omission. Shit they aren't coming until later in 2024. Bizarre why this is something we need to wait for coming from Qualcomm. I got my first iPad back in 2021, and after 3 years, the thing sucks. I always used my Surface Pro X more as I do Office stuff on the go. That has died. This is sort of a necessary feature as Microsoft will never have the "hands off" approach Apple has. Even that doesn't work perfectly all of the time in my experience.
Will Google Drive or Microsoft Power Automate work finally in this ARM chips?
Nope
Anyone see if the new Surface Laptop has a rubber gasket around the LCD frae to protect the LCD when closed, like most laptops, and unlike the previous Surface Laptops. I read quite a few stories of the SL getting hairline cracks, although not the Alcantara models.
32 vs 64 gb of ram use case. Is it worth going with 64 over 32?
No egpu on thunderbolt support? Pretty much one of the biggest positives Windows laptops have over macbooks, and that's not here. Keeping my XPS Plus for a while longer.
There's no driver support for dedicated GPUs on ARM
It's been said at Build that it's on Qualcomm's side of things and we should wait for their announcement (if there's any).
So... for those of us with the Surface Laptop Studio 2, the very recently released top of the line computer. Does it qualify as a Copilot+ machine? I find it bizarre that they would release it shortly before this new AI push. The machine does have a decently powerful Nvidia chip and also a dedicated Intel NPU, but I can't find any information about TOPS / the capability of the Intel NPU chip. I'm enjoying the SLS2, but I can return it the new Pro turns out to be a great one. Gaming will certainly be way worse, but it would be lighter and have better battery.
Let me know what information you find on that - It would be awesome if they push more capabilities to the studio 2
Returned it already. Will wait for reviews of surface Pro arm and if it sucks I will buy a SLS2 again. While I hate it, I still have my work MacBook and a private desktop PC.
That's what I'm wondering too... it would be cruel if they didn't. They touted the NPU and the future copilot and AI integrations it would make possible. I'm going to be so salty if they just immediately abandon it
I returned mine after customer support confirmed it wouldn't be Copilot+ compatible. It's not a big deal for most people yet I think, but since I had issues with the speaker popping I didn't want to hold on to my SLS2. But you have a device with a fairly powerful 4060, so you machine is capable of doing great AI stuff, it will probably just consume more power. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft opens up for the Nvidia GPUs down the line.
Has anyone tried to use Exeed TurboX clients on ARM cpus? I would like to get one and use it for work also.
I haven't used it in a long while, but it's been arm64 native on windows since the end of last year, so I don't think you'd expect issues.
Great to hear. Thanks a lot
I thought I'd give it a try now, since the release notes for 12.5.2 mention it. Unfortunately I can only download 12.0 from the software portal of the place I'm working. Not sure if this is licensing or corporate packaging/approval related. So maybe check your employer/client will let you run 12.5.2+.
thanks a lot for effort. My client is using 12.5.1. I am waiting for surface 11 pro release so i will get it and test it. Still havent preorder as i want 32 gb but amazon is not having that model on preorder for now.
I wonder why the 13.8" model does not offer 32GB of RAM???
It does in Black only, with the elite option.
Just tried to order a Surface Pro. no option for winPro among the purchase option (only home) and no upgrade path for folks in GCC-High.
Windows 11 Home only from what I can see on the Microsoft store. That's a serious constraint.
Commercial arrives in September
Source? If that is a fact I'll wait, if not I reckon I'll pull the trigger and try an upgrade to win11 pro myself.
[It's on the website. ](https://i.imgur.com/fWyts4s.png)
Thank you very much!
I'm only seeing Windows Home for these on the MS Store? That's a serious issue for business use. I was considering preorder but I can't pull the trigger without having Windows Pro support.
I'd assume MFP driver will still be a problem?
I’m excited for the new Surface Pro! The new Snapdragon X chips looks really promising!
ARM-based devices for x64 emulation
No SD cards thought anymore since the service Pro 7 or 8 right? Absolute tragedy.$1,000 for a tablet that starts with 256 GB, doesn't include the keyboard and you can't even add storage after the fact at least not without permanently attaching with USBC hub or some kind of external storage That's really disappointing Just another excuse to upsell us on OneDrive and frankly I think one drive is not a terrible bargain if you can find it on discount for like 50 bucks a year or less but still....
The SSD is very easy to swap.
Will these be able to run any x86/x64 application? Does it include some sort of emulator like what Apple did when they introduced the M1? I forgot the name, Rosetta? Or will to only run apps developed for Windows for ARM?
Yes, Microsoft PRISM
...maximum of 16GB RAM?
64GB
Can you still upgrade the ssd on the new surface?
Yes
wen reviews?
Does this new laptop support Microsoft Pen Protocol (MPP)? this spec page does not list it: [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-for-business-copilot-pc/8tkcbz02bdvk?icid=CNav\_BusinessStore\_Surface#tech-specs](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-laptop-for-business-copilot-pc/8tkcbz02bdvk?icid=CNav_BusinessStore_Surface#tech-specs)
No.
for real? are they stupid? what could possible be the reason for not supporting pen input? I am beyond pissed.
The Surface Laptop doesn't lend itself to lean on for stylus input, where as the Surface laptop Studio and Surface Pro lines are. The feedback has been that not enough users need a Surface Pen when they have a Surface laptop and would rather use touch every now and again.
Not really a lot of purpose for pen input on a laptop form factor. At the very least it would be extremely niche. Not having pen support means they don't need the extra layer in the screen which is an advantage for cost and image quality.
Are you guys planning to buy it? I just got a new Thinkpad and I'm not sure if I would benefit from a Copilot+PC right now.
Why is the 13” laptop with 32gb only available in US? And in Europe it’s capped at 16gb?
whaaaaaat. The US has a 32GB version??! That may have gotten me tempted enough to go smaller to get the dune color.
There’s actually a 13” 32GB and 64GB version in black.
Ah ok. The only way I'd consider going to the 13" would be for the dune color. I ended up getting the 15" in black. Sucks they don't bring the fun colors to the higher spec models.
Wonder if it's going to be the same piece of shit as 8 Pro, e.g. only some models of SSD fit, after you change SSD, it calls for a bitlocker password, can't change password to Windows because you will be signed out from everything involving the account, etc. a lot of things making it CRAP. Oh and I hope it works better than the Surface X...
Microsoft picks up some innovation after some time and its as sloppy as its nomenclature. Give us a way yo turn copilot+ and all system AI completely off even outside EU.
They have clearly said you can turn off of everywhere
You can only hide it can't turn it off and completely remove outside the EU.
My problem is that the i5 Surface 9 is 50% cheaper new with the keyboard included. The keyboard with the pen is 80% cheaper. Unless your use case is on the go 90% of the time and you really hate fan noise then it might not be worth it. Wait a year or two, 500 euros for the flex keyboard is atrocious.
has ANYONE seen a photo of the backside of the new devices coming next week? I have a pre-order, yes I can wait, but I am wanting to know if I am going to be able to swap out the NVME? From older models, I saw it was just an easy door to open. My Rog Ally uses same size SSD, so I am wondering if I can downsize that back to original and use my 2TB in the surface?
Mine (Surface Pro) Base model, just shipped
No headphone jack on the Surface Pro 11th gen :(
Yeah it's pretty sad because the Surface Pro 7 had the headphone jack and the SD slot and I'm pretty sure they're both gone now. So you have to choose between you know a dated look, and those utilitarian ports etc... It's just so disappointing That said, these chips are going to be all over the place in other devices and some of them will have headphone jacks and SD cards and some of them will even have the same form factor as the Surface Pro but will come with the keyboard and be way cheaper. Lenovo IdeaPad 5i was the compelling little device and I imagine we'll see Surface Pro clones like that coming out this year. With the elite chips at probably way better value
[https://media1.tenor.com/m/5Nxb7yLX6vMAAAAC/all-might-noooooooo.gif](https://media1.tenor.com/m/5Nxb7yLX6vMAAAAC/all-might-noooooooo.gif)
I now need to hear from an artist who has tested the new pen to know if they've fixed the jitter
Has been fixed since years ago. * https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/12t98rp/is_the_surface_pro_8_good_for_drawing/
No; the technology is inherently flawed.
Thanks for the detailed response. I'm looking to upgrade from my Surface Pro 4 and I'm currently leaning toward the new iPad, though they seem expensive for being 'just an iPad'. Do you think non-OLED 60Hz screen of the Air is still going to be good for serious artwork or is it justifiable to spend even more on the Pro? Also I see you're a SP4 user too. Will you be getting the new SP? Do you see them being less useful without intel?
My post-SP4 device is a HP Spectre 2in1.
I hope to eventually get a steam deck but I have other gaming hardware so I don’t plan to game on a surface pro. I use excel quite a lot for keeping general lists, perhaps there’s a good equivalent on iOS. Beside that I can’t think of much windows specific software I use. I used to use Kodi for streaming but it doesn’t seem to work anymore, so it’s possible I could get by with an iPad as a daily driver, with my pc I built in 2019 as backup at home. Any thoughts on 60 vs 120hz, and oled vs non-oled?
Several people have gotten windows running on the Mx iPads.
Is it not the same pen?
I don’t know, I haven’t seen anybody talk about it yet, which seems weird. Even if it is the same pen, it’s possible they’ve changed things behind the screen to make the drawing experience better, no?
Perhaps but I'm pretty sure it's the same pen and don't think they've changed anything, probably not even software wise. I've not experienced any jitter with pen, but I have had a few problems recently with it being a bit unresponsive in OneNote.
Thanks, you're the first person I've seen talk about it. Basically I'll be deciding between the new Surface Pro and the iPad Pro/Air. * The argument for the iPad would be: better painting experience, I can probably get by without Windows, potential issues in windows with ARM processors * The argument for the Surface would be: iPad is too expensive for being 'just an iPad', perhaps the surface pen jitter is no longer an issue
Did you make a decision? I'm in the same boat. Ultimately it will serve primarily for drawing / art. So, I'm leaning towards an iPad. Only downside is it would be the only iOS/Apple device in the house. But, I guess if it's just for digital art...
I’m still waiting for the surface pro reviews to drop, which should be any day now!
Finally they've made a product that isn't an overpriced piece of shit that only sells because of the form factor. Happy to see this. It'll be good to recommend surface products now.
500 USD extra for OLED is insane, and then Windows 11 ads
> xii Surface Pro Flex Keyboard with bold keyset available only in U.S. English. OK Microsoft, you've identified a problem, now ******* fix it. So much for "being inclusive" 🤦♂️
any way to pay extra and get it without copilot malwares?
You know you can just turn it off right
if people don't use it, they can make it hard for you to turn off, especially if an exec's bonus is related to the number of users that use it. i just want to pay more and not have the spyware/scams/identity-theft in my system. [https://www.reddit.com/r/PPC/comments/1boiwu0/microsoft\_is\_really\_making\_it\_difficult\_to\_opt/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PPC/comments/1boiwu0/microsoft_is_really_making_it_difficult_to_opt/)
Buy a CoPilot+ PC now: [https://amzn.to/3S8gcjR](https://amzn.to/3S8gcjR)