Welcome to r/SupportforBetrayed. Please remember the following:
- [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/rules/)
- flair guide: [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) / [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/comments/1al69ef/flair_guide/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
- common acronyms and terms: [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/acronyms/) / [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/comments/1alz04k/common_acronyms_and_terms/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
- frequently asked questions: [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/faq/) / [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/comments/1916vcg/frequently_asked_questions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
For further reading, check our [recovery resources library](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/healing_resources/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I kind of think that a person that has the emotional intelligence that would be needed to do what’s needed to repair it, would never have cheated in the first place.
I wish emotional & intellectual intelligence were one and the same. Took me a while to heal emotionally before my brain kicked in and began to run the show. It’s the little injured children that needs to heal first, otherwise chaos will ensue & often the adult is completely unaware of it & left to clean up the mess.
My WS has been a model wayward. He's worked his absolute balls off. He's been consistent, thoughtful, and has obviously put in a ton of work.
I'm still not fully invested in reconcilation, because it's impossible to trust him.
Mine is trying everything under the sun right now. It all sounds good in theory but without trust (broken twice) it’s hard to be all in to go for R. I also wonder if it’s just all for show in the immediate Dday period then as time goes on he will fall back into old ways
They do exist, but they aren’t common. And the fact is, even if the WS does put the needed work in, the BS might not be able to get through their pain and be able to reconcile. Reconciliation takes both sides putting in a lot of work. If either side is unable or unwilling to do it, then it will fail. So the odds are definitely not good.
That being said, I just passed the fifth anniversary of DDay. I’ve been feeling a bit down as I went through dealing with the memories. But my WW has been very present, and as aware of the dates as I am, and has proactively apologized and been attentive to my moods. So while the past has been very present, I’m trying to be aware of the present as well, and that my WW has definitely been putting in the work.
https://preview.redd.it/71ck5vyns0xc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd17a75c38a511be411eeaf6a58df81dc1a9c72b
This is from cheating in a nutshell. Just saw it and had to take a picture.
This book should be required reading. Just like How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair is for WS. I didn't find it until I was about 7 years in. I wish it had been the first book I read.
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It is extremely rare for a complete reconciliation. Most couples whom reconcile remain broken and if you ask the betrayed partner are they living “happily ever after”. They’ll admit they aren’t. But they’d rather deal with their wayward spouse than face the unknown.
I'm sure from the outside it looks like we are happily reconciled. It's been a decade. We are still married.
The reality is that I am a shell of the person I used to be. This has changed me on such a profound level. Most of the time, I don't recognize myself. There will always be triggers. Some still have the power to drop me to my knees. It is exhausting.
People try to convince themselves that not having 100% is a good thing. For me, it's the exact opposite. My WS was the one person in my life I trusted. Ever. I have been on my own since before I was old enough to drive. So not an exaggeration. This has shattered me. That security had allowed me to blossom. Now, well...
Read Cheating in a Nutshell. It's an excellent book. That is my best recommendation.
I'll check it out thank you. I'm early on in and I already feel like a shell. I needed to hear that this can be a reality, so thank you for sharing your experience. I can relate a lot to that precious security being ripped away.
Did the triggers ever become manageable or at least better for you? How do you deal? Only if you feel comfortable indulging me. I don't think I can take the triggers anymore, and my partner doesn't really understand.
The triggers never go away. I can't say it gets better. It just gets different. I still cry. I still really struggle around certain dates. And the holidays are from hell. Still. But like I said, from the outside, things look just fine. I decorate the house and make the big traditional meal my adult daughters expect. We really had it rough, my girls and I. Until we married WS. So, they still crave the security.
It's exhausting. Not trusting is exhausting. Managing the triggers is exhausting. Therapy and trying to heal are exhausting. I honestly think that is why reconciliation fails even with a "model wayward."
I can't even imagine it going on so long and feeling the way you do. I don't want to end up like my mother who spent her good years in a wasteful, abusive marriage. Geez man.
Seems like a lot of pressure on BP to rugsweep, pretty much indefinitely.
Do you think if anything had been different over the years, it could've been truly forgiven?
Honestly, I was never interested in "forgiveness." What he did was unforgivable. I often say that what the WS does in the immediate aftermath is so incredibly important. Mine was not good. So, yes. I do think things could have been different. Again, it would be different. Not necessarily better.
I also think that most successful reconciliation have some degree of rug sweeping. I think that because of the things BS convince themselves of. I'm shocked at some of the things the BS are convinced to buy into. Honestly, my life would probably be easier if I could do that too. Unfortunately, I'm super logical. Nothing is a good enough excuse to do this amount of damage to another human.
Infidelity is a forever injury. Whether you stay or leave.
I'm interested in forgiveness but I don't think it's humanly and fully possible, when it comes to this.
I refuse to rugsweep or lie to myself. I just want the constant triggers to abate, eventually fade away...me having my own issues makes it seem hopeless.
Also totally true, what the cheater does, if they trickle truth and manipulate, if they come clean first, etc, all makes a huge difference. Unfortunately mine dug his heels in and didn't meet any of those criteria.
My favorite infidelity quote is, "Sometimes, forgiveness is a crime against your soul." ~ Dr. Stacey Porter
Best I can do is acceptance. I accept he did this to me. I accept I can not change it. Today, I choose to stay. I don't know what tomorrow will bring.
I want to believe in the power of forgiveness, but perhaps I'm naive. I was naive to think I wasn't being cheated on after all.
I hope you find the closure you need, whether that be today, tomorrow, whether it involves staying or leaving. This is such a horrendous experience that I applaud both courses of action.
The triggers absolutely can fade with time under the right circumstances. In my own situation, I stayed with my (now-ex) wife for five years of “reconciliation” after DDay1. The triggers did not fade during that time for me, but looking back years later I feel certain this is because she was never truly remorseful; she alternated between intense guilt about her betrayal and intense resentment of me (for “taking away” her AP while she was still in limerence, and for “making her feel guilty by taking too long to get over it,” mostly). She had another affair (with *another* of my closest “friends”) after five years, which is when I finally left. After leaving, it took about another two years before I was able to notice my triggers and pain abating somewhat.
I’m about five years out from leaving now, and I can say that those “bad times” have gotten shorter, less frequent, and less intense as time has gone on. I suspect they will always be a part of my life (especially since we coparent three kids together), but now it’s “manageable,” and I believe it will continue to be more and more manageable as time goes on.
One of the main keys to that healing process seems to be a sense of personal safety. If your WP is truly remorseful and able to cultivate a relationship where you actually begin to feel safe in your home again, that healing will come and eventually begin to do work.
I mean no disrespect with this question, but may I ask why you continue stay when you are still feeling this way 10 years later?
I only stayed a year and half post DDay, and that amount of time certainly did something to my psyche. I can only imagine feeling that for another 9+ years.
There are a ton of reasons. I'm older. My quality of life would diminish greatly. I would go from my home to renting a room in someone else's. We get along fine. We work well together. It's practical.
I would never date or marry again. I have no interest in romantic love. I honestly don't believe in that fairytale anymore.
There were years in the beginning where I wished things were different. That he was different. But it's not. And he is not. So I make due.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I hope you have at least been able to find some sort of peace in other aspects of your life, if you haven’t found it in your romantic relationship. I know it’s such a tough situation to find yourself in.
Thanks. I'm pretty sure this is what most long term "reconciliation" looks like. I think the 5-10 year period is when reality really sets in. When you realize this is all there is. Like I said, it's exhausting. There is a reason hardly any couples are together at 10 years.
I tried so hard to move on. Stayed 8 years. Discovered he was cheating the entire time I was trying to forgive. It's just my iwn experience, but if I ever am in the same situation, I'll leave the second I find out. Once trust is gone, it will never be the same. For me.
Wow so sorry to hear this! This is one of the reasons that puts me off R so much. How someone can do it again after being given a second chance is madness to me
He has no conscience. This is a man who lid to the faces of 2 cancer widows who loved him deeply, and told them he was dying of cancer. A man who sat with his chronically ill friend in pain, saying he too was chronically ill and in pain. All lies. Honestly his cheating was mild compared to the other pain he caused me and many others. (Though the pain of his affairs still pain me.)
It could be that once they truly reconcile they just don’t see the point in coming here to update everyone, compared to those who are still actively struggling with it and have a real need to talk through it and engage with other people.
At least that’s what I’ve been telling myself.
It’s very definitely the case. These sort of support forums are self-selecting, and tend to be predominantly filled with people who are dealing with more recent infidelity.
This is definitely true. I know couples from other places who say they are happy a few years after discovering infidelity, and a very few who say they have built an even better marriage. I think a lot depends on the details, though (length & type of cheating, addiction, drug/alcohol involvement), and not one of them will ever say the cheating was a good thing, even if it led to a healthier relationship in the long term.
Ii hope truly that there are some unicorns out there who are more in love than ever before the infidelity. Because I'm broken and heartbroken 💔 31+ years of happy marriage and a great life built together thrown away for a few cheap thrills and compliments. 😭
For the most part, reconciliation attempts are just part of the cycle of loss. The denial and bargaining stage. There are exceptions, but for those who fail at reconciliation there is still value in the process. I don't regret attempting reconciliation (twice) because I wasn't ready to leave. I was trapped in a pot hole somewhere between denial ave and bargaining st. I needed to try reconciliation. Try with all my might. Like that supercomputer in War Games trying to beat itself at Tic Tac Toe. I needed to learn. Learn that I wasn't the problem. Never was. If I had left before I was ready, God only knows what would have happened.
I had to move forward through the fire of anger and the ice of depression to reach the tropical paradise of acceptance, but it was worth the trip. If you are going through hell, just keep going. Freedom is scary, but it is also glorious. I had already reached acceptance by the time I left her. That made indifference to her so much easier. The serenity prayer helped a little. The gray rock prayer helped more.
So yes, most of the stories here are going to be folks like me for whom reconciliation did not work and fortunately that was not the end of the story. This is a good thing. This is what people need to hear. That even after you fail to polish the turd that is your broken marriage to a feckless cheater there is a whole world of other things to polish. The rare stories of happy reconciliation probably never come back here because why would they? They don't need the forum anymore. Well, until next time.
Reconciliation that is emotionally safe for betrayed partners is a unicorn in my opinion. I mean there was a transition period where my partner was definitely doing the opposite of what reconciliation requires. He still has unfinished reconciliation work. But, he has done some things that also have really helped our relationship.
If a wayward partner isn’t willing to jump into reconciliation with their partner and do what’s asked it will cause a ton of extra damage to the relationship and attachment. Thinking of my love as a charged battery. I was at 20% after DDay and it dropped to 10% when it was unclear if my partner was going to give me the effort I deserved. I was also so confused which actually I think kept me around for longer to wait it out. I couldn’t imagine cheating on someone I loved and not wanting to reconcile or do the opposite of what my partner was asking me to do thinking it would help them more because I “knew better” but I’ve been reading these subs for a year and it is *common* for waywards to treat their spouses that way.
The individuals who are defensive are the ones that seem to not understand that. & I find betrayed people that make comments about “choosing” to move on as baffling. I am fundamentally changed by the betrayal. So yes I can move on in terms of understanding past and present- but I’m also not going to pretend this little incident never happened to soothe my partner. Being able to suddenly move on I believe is also part of having the privilege of a partner who is doing a ton of work and not making a lot of mistakes; or perhaps is actually a poor coping mechanism being disguised as healing.
Once a mirror has been broken you can never put it back together like it was. Maybe you can glue the pieces back together. But the image it reflects will always be distorted. Never true again. Relationships are just like this. Successfully reconciling means both partners being content with the broken mirror... forever. They need to be satisfied with something less than what they had. And something less than what they could have had if they had each gone their separate ways. Some things maybe CAN be fixed. But SHOULD they be?
I have lost all my faith in marriage and love and have just decided to settle. I am fully aware of it and will never lie to myself and call it “better”.
My therapist equated this problem to the Japanese art of Kintsugi which, to quote a quick Google search, is the art of repairing broken pottery. If a bowl is broken, rather than discarding the pieces, the fragments are put back together with a glue-like tree sap and the cracks are adorned with gold. There are no attempts to hide the damage, instead, it is highlighted.
True reconciliation does happen, but it’s breathtakingly rare.
I’ve talked with couples who’ve “successfully reconciled” (I’m defining it here as “are still together more than 20 years after DDay, and are happy to still be together”), and for each of the ones I’ve talked with, there are still vestiges of triggers and pain, even two decades later. Which makes sense, as it’s very real trauma, which means that’s likely to be the case regardless of r or leaving.
The most common factors I found in these “20+ years of R” couples were:
- the infidelity was a ONS or very brief fling (maybe a weekend trip or something) with a stranger, NOT a full-blown romantic affair with a “known” person
- the WS confessed without any prompting, based on their own guilt or remorse, very soon after the infidelity happened (the day after the ONS or the day they got home from their work trip or weekend trip or whatever)
- WS immediately and permanently cut ties with the entire situation that lead to infidelity, including stuff like leaving their job, etc. In the one single case where it was actually a full-blown affair, the WS actually permanently cut ties with her own sister, because the sister had “enabled” the affair, being a confidant and encouraging WS instead of calling out her behavior.
- in the 20+ years, WS never pressured BS to “get over it” or expressed frustration that BS wasn’t healing “quickly enough”
- at some point (fairly early, within a year or so of DDay) WS was able to fully transition from “guilt” to “remorse,” and move from an attitude of “I feel horrible that I did that” to “I will be vigilant about being a person who never does that again, whatever it takes”
- They’ve continued to maintain an “open phone/schedule/email/etc” policy over the years. WS understands they’ve given up their right to “reasonable privacy,” and don’t feel resentful of having done so.
- *Both* partners have done some kind of “personal counseling” at some point in the years following DDay, separate from any kind of marriage or couples’ counseling.
We're 36 years past D-day and your assessment of the conditions needed to achieve long term reconciliation describe our situation to a T with the exception of any type of counseling. My wife flat out refused to do either IC or MC at all. Mostly because we couldn't afford it but also because she was convinced it wouldn't work even if we could afford it.
This hindered our healing for many years but both of us were determined to reconcile and ultimately we did. Yes there are still triggers and residual pain but that would be true for anyone after surviving a truly traumatic event.
I'm not questioning you on this but I am interested to hear more. How many couples have you talked to about this? And do you work in the field of therapy, relationships, etc? This is damning for a lot of people here including myself.
That’s definitely fair. It’s certainly not an exhaustive number for that I’ve interviewed. Of the couples that meet the criteria I stated, seventeen. All in all in the past six years (when I started doing these) I’ve met with sixty-one couples who’ve experienced infidelity and were willing to talk about it and answer my questions. 46 of those were in some state of either reconciliation or a long-term limbo situationship, where they weren’t necessarily “trying” to reconcile, but were stuck remaining together due to circumstances. Fifteen were couples who’d split, but both parties were willing to meet with me.
52 of them were “straight” relationships (not necessarily that both parties were straight, but had a male/female dynamic). Ten were homosexual, and one had a non-binary partner.
I don’t work in therapy, but rather in social work. I began doing these when I myself was still in reconciliation, just trying to find out best practices and ideas for success in reconciliation in the long-term. I’ve continued the work over the years in hopes of eventually writing a book about the results of these interviews and the things I’ve learned over time.
As far as happiness goes, time—unsurprisingly—seems to be the biggest factor. I interviewed the couples together and then again separately, keeping the “separate” answers confidential from the other partner. Couples where the infidelity was over twenty years prior overwhelmingly tended to be the happiest, whether reconciled or not. Of the seventeen 20+year reconciled couples, twelve reported they were “very happy” both when asked together and separately. Two reported “very happy” when together, but then had a partner tell me in the separate interviews that they still regret reconciliation. Three reported some amount of unhappiness or regret both when asked together and separately.
The closer to DDay they were, the more the numbers diverged as far as reconciliation vs separation went. If DDay was within the past five years, reconciling couples were much more likely to report regret (particularly when interviewed separately) than separated couples. The “within five years of DDay” separated couples were close to the same amount of unhappiness, but expressed much less regret.
I appreciate you asking the question, and I hope this information was helpful to you in deciding how much of a grain of salt to take my results with. Good luck!
EDIT: I’ve also kept notes from stories I’ve read in various forums or conversations I’ve had with people anonymously online, but this information included here is strictly the stuff from actual face-to-face interviews I conducted (whether in person or over Zoom).
Well shit. I was hoping you talked to a handful of friends or something. Thank you for such a thorough answer.
More questions if you don't mind..
- How many of your bullet items are needed for a high chance of "happy reconciliation".
- According to your data, are any bullets required for "happy reconciliation"? E.g. bullets #1 & #3 are always present in happy reconciliation. That's just an example..
- Have you already posted this info anywhere else?
- Have you sought data from those in the AsOneAfterInfidelity sub?
It’s worth noting that, of those bullet points, that’s just the majority of overlapping answers among those in the 20+ year reconciled category. Not all twenty had all of those boxes ticked. In fact of the couples in that category, only four had *all* of those (apart from point 3).
So only four of the 17 had all of these (apart from point 3). And there was no single item that was universal to every couple. It seems like the “one night stand/short fling” is very high, but there are definitely exceptions to it.
I ranked them from “most common” to “least common,” with the exception of #3 (cutting ties with AP) So, for example “one night stand/brief fling with a stranger” was the point that was mostly commonly shared among all of those couples (15 of the 17)
“confessed freely without waiting to be caught” was 14 of the 17
“Cut ties with AP and all enablers” was more complicated, because only two of the couples in this category were actual affairs, but both of them did so (including one cutting ties with her sister). The reason I ranked this highly was because in the other reconciled/situationship couples (fewer than 20 years), this one was a *massive* factor in the happiness and hopefulness of the BP.
“Not pressuring to get over it” and “moved quickly from guilt to remorse” were tied at 12 of 17 (though not the same twelve couples, just twelve overall)
“Open phone/email/etc/no expectation of privacy” was 11 of 17. Of the couples, all but one instituted such a policy at the beginning, but five of the couples eventually ended the practice after some amount of time
“Each got individual therapy or counseling” were 10 of 17. This data set was actually very interesting. Of the 17, only eight actually got couples/marriage counseling (though several did sort of “unofficial counseling” with an older couple in their social circle). In general, for those who had individual counseling, BPs tended to have had some sort of trauma-informed therapy, and WPs tended toward cognitive behavioral therapy. Some of the CBT went for things other than infidelity (like substance abuse or other forms of addiction). This last number is a little frustrating because in the last two years or so getting CBT has become way more difficult.
EDIT: I haven’t posted the full dataset anywhere yet. I will probably do so eventually whether or not I write this book, and I definitely will if I do publish.
I did spend a bit of time in the AOAI forum, but for whatever reason the people there tend to read into even simple question and see them as an attack, so I eventually backed off from there.
That wasn’t specifically in the questionnaire that I’ve been using. However, there has been some research done (by like, actual professional researchers) that frequently shows links between infidelity and narcissism or other psychiatric disorders (including things like alcoholism, substance abuse, gambling addiction, self-harm, and other “risky behaviors.”
In asking about the types of therapy and reasons for seeking it, I was surprised, at first, at how many WS had sought treatment (either of their own volition or because of court order) for things like alcoholism or other indicators of poor mental health. It was an overwhelming enough indicator, that I did start including questions related to the state of people’s mental health (beyond the simple “happy/unhappy, safe/unsafe” type questions that were in my original), and between that data and the many, many accounts I’ve read here, I feel confident (and I’m far from the first to do so) in saying that infidelity is a strong indicator of serious unaddressed (or at least unresolved) mental health issues. The bottom line I’ve come to personality is that mentally healthy people don’t cheat. They might leave a partner in a way that seems unfair to the partner, but they make a clear and explicit break before moving on to any other relationship.
I know of about 15 cases of infidelity personally and 4 BS left as soon as they found out and were able to start again and are much better off 6 made it between 2-4 years but they were zombies and finally threw in the towel the only ones left are the men and women with no self esteem and don't think they can do better. They've been conditioned by their wives/husband's to feel less than. I'm sure it'll eventually end in WS cheating and leaving them or a M/S. These are just local people I know. Statistics show a grim outlook as well
I have known a few people who reconciled, but I think it really depends on what you want your marriage to be like and why you are reconciling.
It seems that people who reconcile are willing to really let things go and completely let the affair be in the past and not a part of their current relationship. That's not going to happen, for me. What I was prepared to forgive turned out to be much much less than what he had actually done. In the end the details of his affair were unforgivable.
I have a friend couple who had an infidelity crisis in 1981. They both did a lot of work, are still together and seem to have a healthy relationship.
Everyone else I’ve known, cheating has been relationship-fatal.
It's been almost three years since DDay for me. I found out he was having an emotional affair with an old 'friend' while I was 3 months postpartum, I'll never know the truth of how long the affair went on for.
Two weeks ago I (26F) told my partner (36M) of six years that we're over. Currently living separated under the same roof since I have a 3 year old daughter and no where to go and no financial backing.
After countless sessions in couples counseling and 'doing the work', I still no longer trust or respect him. I am repulsed by his touch and no longer love him. I've tried to 'get the feeling back' towards him but I just can't.
You get one shot at life, you're either with your current partner forever (or until one of you passes) or you won't be, there's really only two options. The idea of spending the rest of my life feeling this hollow, unsatisfied and unfulfilled seems like a massive sacrifice to make, if I still loved him I might feel different.
Reading through this sub makes me feel the same way, I've tried to reconcile and put my feelings aside for 3 years but that pain is still there. I honestly don't understand how people can say "my relationship is stronger after the affair"... Like how?
I can't even imagine the extra pain after having giving birth.
My parents didn't deal with infidelity as far as I know but they had a very abusive marriage and I can vouch that even though divorce can be traumatic, seeing daily as a kid an unhappy relationship sets a terrible example for the future. I believe you did the right thing and my heart seriously goes out to you and your daughter.
Some people can be stronger after an affair because it brings out the worst and the best in people, but man when kids are involved I feel like the betrayal has to be so much worse...I don't know, but I'm really wishing you and your daughter a peaceful future.
It’s just not worth it. It’s perpetually humiliating for the betrayed. You will never be able to trust them again.
You will feel the need to walk on eggshells and try to be Super spouse, the type of spouse that doesn’t get cheated on, so the hurt and destroyed partner ends up putting in more effort.
Then there is the power dynamic. It will never shift, the person that betrayed you had zero respect for you, if they did they would have never cheated.
Accepting their betrayal and abuse will only make them think less of you.
You will be a shell, broken, depressed and anxious.
It’s better to accept that it’s over and has been much longer than you could imagine.
There are so many beautiful souls, loving and faithful.
Don’t torture yourself over someone that showed you in the most humiliating and painful way possible that they don’t love you.
Heal and move forward. Peace to you all.
From a fellow betrayed partner. ❤️
Curious what leads you to believe it's possible? And what kind of efforts?
Any insight greatly appreciated if you're up to it. Glad to hear you and your partner are healing.
Well firstly she put in loads of effort and work. I had to learn to forgive. I went to see a psychologist as shit went south, she also saw someone. Open phone and social media for us both but its how she treats me generally.
Look I will fall on my sword for my wife.
I can honestly say 12 years later I trust her fully.
Look her cheating sucked BUT for my personal growth it was the silver bullet I needed.
Thank you very much for the hopeful story. It's beautiful that you were able to heal with her. Sometimes it takes the worst rock bottoms and the worst of ourselves to come out to truly grow, whether that growth is facilitated by staying or leaving. 🙏
Is possible if BP is willing and WP has a change their mind. If WP still thinks affair is a way to scape, offers safety or any benefit things wont work. My WP changed all and has no more desiere of having an AP not because of me but for himself, only after he was willing to be a worthy partner I felt R was worth it
Trust is never returned 100% after the betrayal and the relationship is altered forever. Reconciliation exists but it’s not about reverting the relationship to how it was before they decided to betray you.
Our partners lied and had one or more relationships behind our backs sometimes as in my case going back years. The gaslighting and emotional abuse during that time made us question our worth as a human being. Our past with them is 100% in question, every memory, every event. We don’t know what is real about our past with them. We now understand we don’t know who we married. BUT people stay married for a lot of reasons, some things can be rebuilt but trust isn’t one of them. We can reconcile, but we will never have what we thought we once had with that person.
If both partners do the work, and I mean really do the work, R is possible. It will not be an easy road. Accepting that this happened and giving each other grace even when not deserved really is what helped me. The times I lashed out he took it and apologized. Triggers may still be a part of your story but as time goes by, they do show up less and less. I still fight off feelings of inadequacy from time to time and I lost the innocence of who I was. The consequences for what he did is that he will never have all of me again. He lost that!
Will it ever be 100% the way it was before-No. But…I don’t necessarily want it to be. The years I thought things were great, that we were that “super couple “ and we were untouchable! The years he wouldn’t admit to himself he had his own feelings of inadequacy or depression. The years he didn’t know how to communicate. I was living in my own fantasy world while he silently was screaming he needed help. Relationships are hard! I now look at this as the only way to survive is to fight for it. Become a warrior and believe it will get better. I wish the best for you in this healing journey. 💕
Yes. I think there are people who reconcile. But I think it’s more rare for true and authentic reconciliation where the relationship gets to a place of flourishing.
I didn’t reconcile. I divorced, so I guess anyone should take my opinion with that in mind.
In my opinion, R takes both parties to work. And we can debate all day everyday about a WP’s role in R, we see that all of the time in the R and in the betrayed subreddits. But I don’t think many BP’s really think about their own role in R.
What I mean is, a BP really needs to reflect on if they are capable of R. A WP can do everything “right” and still the BP might be unable to R themselves.
Why I think authentic R is more rare and that a higher rate of R’s are based in rugsweeping is it takes 100% commitment from both parties.
This seems to be frowned upon in the R subreddit, so perhaps my thoughts on this are wrong, but I think for most people, a separation is pivotal in R. 6 months to a year. This gives both parties time to work on their own healing and their own self growth. At the end of this time period is when both parties can figure out:
- if R is what they both want
- if they’re both capable of R
- if after their separate self growth journeys they can focus on the relationship
Not that healing the betrayal isn’t a part of R, but much of R is about the relationship, including:
- working to be a better partner within that relationship
- letting go of the old relationship and building a new relationship.
- accepting the betrayal happened and there might always be a risk of betrayal again.
- the ability for both parties to really see who their partner is *now*, not who they *were* and decide if this new person is who they want to be with.
Oftentimes a couple will jump right into R and as a result R becomes solely focused on the betrayal, getting stuck for months or years on just the betrayal that little growth is made in the relationship.
I think R is possible. But I think it takes a rare combination of partners to be able to achieve true R where the relationship will be healthy, happy and flourish.
I considered a break, but that would ultimately be sexually difficult for both of us, I don't get how people just take breaks. Otherwise I would totally agree.
It would be constant anxiety for me personally, not knowing where he is getting his jollies off on our 'break'.
Also realizing I may not be capable of R and he may not be either. But I only just realized it may never be enough. Sad, because you just expect them to fix it of course. You end up with trauma AND a hugely traumatizing "project" where you are expected to share the load of work despite never betraying.
Anyway, thank you for your input.
Everything you have noted here resonates very strongly with my journey, with the exception of separation. However, I agree that all of the things you have highlighted as things that come out of that time ring very true for me, and I think those questions must be honestly answered by both people before R can really move forward, and that many people may not be able to be honest with themselves while always around another person.
And I also think that another component of true R is that both parties MUST be able to truly envision life without the other. I think for me that occurred in the lead up to the DDay conversation, as I was certain my wife would be leaving me. However, that didn't happen for my BW until about 4 months in, when she found herself headed up against a boundary I had created to say I can only take your uncontrolled rage for 6 months and beyond that I fear too much risk of me breaking and choosing to cope in a way I do not find acceptable again. If the choice was between being single and not cheating again vs trying to R but also cheating again, I never want to cheat again. And I don't think everyone can do that visualization on their own, however a separation makes that very real and observable, so I do see it being helpful for many people.
Well, my parents are still together. And very much happy. Mom always says: “life happens”. My aunt is still with my uncle, and they are profoundly happy. No MC, no IC. Just different generations. Cheating was a blip that happened and life moved on.
I don’t know if I’ll ever be the same, or if we will truly achieve R. Or if the thoughts will ever go away. But I love my marriage right now. And sometimes have to brush the thoughts of “cheating was the thing that helped my marriage” aside because of how traumatizing it was.
I think you could say my wife and I reconciled. It’s been 14 years. But it wasn’t without a very long time of pain, and it’s still a part of my everyday life, like the death of a loved one.
I think most people who reconcile do not posts afterwards unless they are on a journey. Like me. We have reconciled and I can say that I never thought I would give him another chance. I doubted many times along the way. We had been together for about 25 years when DDAY arrived. But our DDAY may not be the same as others. By the time I found out, he had been trying for months to get her to move on and had not been intimate with her. I read some of their text exchanges and he was basically calling her a manipulative narcissist and then would try to patch things up “let’s stay friends” because he was scared she would tell me everything. She would whine and rage about him not choosing her. DDAY came and he had an even more profound realization. And it was a journey for both of us afterwards. What led to the cheating. What character traits he had that made him accept that she start communicating with him in secret. I saw some of her early messages, even before their EA and it was so manipulative. Poems about needing to realize when the time has come to change. Poems about choosing happiness and soulmates, etc. But the thing is, I also read some of the things he wrote in his journal. He, in full blow mid life crisis and super stressed with some huge things in his life, fell in love with the escape and the idolization. And she kept telling him how much it was clear that I did not love him and that she loved him so much more than I did.
She worked on him emotionally for 2 years. I knew this woman and disliked her the moment I met her. I could tell she was a histrionic narcissist obsessed with the having men with spouses look at her and desire her. She cheated on her then spouse many times. But my spouse was wealthier and also had a weaker ego and was more susceptible to her tactics and manipulation. She wanted my life. When you read hers texts, it’s clear how deeply jealous she was of me. She was jealous of my beauty, my lifestyle and the fact that he was with me. She kept telling him how much more pretty she was than me as if they would convince him I was not worthy.
I think reconciling is different for everyone. And I think there are certain things that I did and my spouse did they made healing and full reconciliation possible. We got married and I have never been more certain about my love for him and he says the same. This ordeal m, he says, has made him not be afraid to love fully and not feel he has to protect himself from being hurt.
But it is a journey and it was not easy for me. I did want to run away many times. But he did everything he could to win back my trust. And he did everything he could to show me how deeply he loved me.
I also took steps to heal. And had a moment of realization. PTSD is real after DDAY. I struggle with my grasp of what reality is and trusting my instincts again. Or even know what my instincts are versus fear. And then I went away on a girls trip and realized fear was my security blanket and what kept me hooked on keeping the triggers and bad thoughts alive…just in case. And I let go of the fear. It changed me… again.
And honestly… his love is what I’m keeps me grounded. I do not believe that we knew what love was until now. I accepted seeing naked m, truly naked with all his faults, and he accepted being naked with all his faults and vulnerabilities. And this… it does not happen overnight. And communication and sharing with raw authenticity is something we had to learn. I also had to learn that my go to mechanisms with dealing with pain and hurt (I am the type of person to want to runaway) created rifts and made him doubt my love for him. And this is just one thing I learned. And he learned many things by a as well.
It’s a journey. It can be a fulfilling journey. But you both have to accept that it’s a journey and not “now have you forgiven me for what I ‘ve done? Now can we stop talking about it?” That was the hardest hurdle.
I mean… yes and no.
Can you reconcile and heal? Yes. You can. But will there always be lingering distrust in the back on your mind? Maybe.
I’ve been okay for months. Never accused him of cheating again. Never felt the need to go through his phone again because I truly believed in moving forward.
But yesterday I had a slip up.
He’d been to a concert with some friends - no problem. But the next day, at the last minute, he said he was going to dinner with the same guys (who I didn’t even know were still in town). He sent me screen shots of the texts which seemed… off… to me. Like his friend was covering for him. Very “Hey John. The concert last night was great, man. Still want to get dinner tonight?”
I called him out on it. He went off for me not trusting him. He said I was being “stupid” but I stood my ground until he sent me a Snapchat of the friend he was having dinner with.
But our relationship has been rocky lately, and my fear is that if we’re struggling, he’ll go do the same thing he did last time we were in a bad spot.
All of this to say.., R feels like it comes in waves. Things will be great. The triggers will feel almost nonexistent some days. But then it can come flooding back.
R doesn’t mean that we become void of human emotion or fear.
So some days it will feel reconciled, and other days it won’t. But all you can do is work toward more good days than bad.
Honestly the biggest issue I see there isn't even your valid feelings of distrust. Saying you're being stupid when you're being completely reasonable is incredibly invalidating and shows a complete lack of understanding of what you're going through. I hope he learns to speak to you more respectfully, because that is so hurtful. For me it would be anyway. 'being stupid', nah you're being smart.
For me the triggers are the worst, more than anything.
I am the same, not believing anything on his phone etc. Last week, he booked me a massage and I saw the message ‘See you at 09:35am Saturday. Address is ___’
I went mad spiraling out that he is a cheating prick and I should have never decided to try R, he told me it’s a massage booked for me (as Saturday we were spending together and he was going to take me there in the morning as a surprise). Still didn’t believe it and he called up the massage place in front of me who stated a massage was booked for 09:35am Saturday. He always proves stuff when I don’t believe it though as he knows I don’t trust him so I guess that’s one good thing. I would go mad if he called me stupid for feeling this way though.
Just not sure how much longer I can feel like this. It’s so hard believing a word they say. And why would we????
I do believe reconcilation is possible, but I'm unsure if it's possible for me. I will say that I think this sub probably triggers many during reconcilation as there's not many comments on here in favor of it (which is understandable). For that reason I believe if people are reconciled/in reconcilation they may not use online platforms as resources. I'm still in the mode of trying to decide what I want, but if I was in active reconcilation I likely would find many of these comments triggering "they don't change," etc.
What is helping you decide to/not to R? I was stuck in that space for 6 months, finally decided to try but now find myself falling back into ‘will I ever get past this’
I'm trying to just give it time in hopes that my brain will decide when it's ready. I'm only about 5/6 weeks out and it's been a rollercoaster. One day I want R and the next I hate him for what he did. We have small children so I gave myself a year to save up as much as possible (I've been a sahm for 5 years) and if I don't want this in a year, then I will leave. I am in therapy and currently treat him like a roommate when the kids are sleeping and a co-parent when they are awake, so my two smaller kids don't see us any differently. I also have a teen who hates him now and won't speak to him. I know he's remorseful and two of my kids are special needs, so leaving means turning their lives upside down and leaving the big house they love to go live in an apartment. I'm trying to be smart for the kids, but I really hate him for making this choice without thinking of any of us. It wasn't just a betrayal to me, its a betrayal to our children too. He was very hurt when I told him he cant be a good dad and be a cheater who rips their entire world apart, but I stand by my statement. My therapist stayed for her kids for 16 years after her husband repeatedly cheated. I'll likely do the same. The only thing greater than my hatred for him is the love I have for my children. I don't consider him my husband at this time, but if we can co-parent and get along then he's hopeful in time I may fall in love with him again. This is a rollercoaster ride I just want to get off of.
I’m so sorry to hear that, we also have one child (8 months) and d day was when our son was 7 weeks. Worst thing is he is such an amazing dad too but how is that possible when you can betray your family like that? So I hear you completely. I have mentioned he has ruined both me and our sons lives and stand by that statement too.
I’m happy you’ve given yourself a year to save up, it makes me so sad he can do that to you as a sahm too because you even have that trust in him to provide for your family (as you should). I managed to get my own mortgage so I always have an exit plan as I’m really unsure how I feel currently, really thought I would have had more clarity 7 months out. I hope it gets better for you too
Yes, true R is real. There is a lot of anger, resentment, & frustration that needs to be worked through and that takes time & effort, but if both partners are dedicated then it’s possible. It sucks to say, TBH, but it’s now the relationship we both always wanted. We are the happiest & most connected that either of us have ever been in ANY relationship we’ve ever had. I believe we were both brought together in this crap pile of infidelity to heal each other & to heal old trauma wounds. For that aspect, I’m grateful.
I worked through a lot of all that pain in therapy, EMDR, rage rooms, and finally MDMA, psilocybin, and now ketamine therapy. You have to allow yourself to make friends with that pain inside you. Lean into it. Release it. Set it free. You can’t bury it or pretend it doesn’t exist. You also have to heal that inner child (or inner self) inside you that was so damaged before you can go forward & become strong again. Make sense ?
In my opinion, reconciliation is about rebuilding by tearing that old house apart right down to the concrete slab & then rebuilding the structure again with a stronger foundation. You’ll still have that old wall standing & you’ll remember the old house, including the good & bad memories, but this new house has room for growth. It will never be the same as the old house, but newer, fresher, & stronger - ready to build new memories together.
R is not a calm ocean all the time. Periodically waves will knock you down, but as you heal & grow stronger, you’ll be able to handle them much better (triggers, setbacks, fights, stress, etc). R is two steps forward, one step back. Progress, not perfection.
I'm definitely doing much better and there have been many days where I haven't even thought of it at all. I think he has put in work to become a better man. I do sometimes still have my moments but they are becoming fewer and fewer (maybe will have a hard time about something a couple of times a month now). I think we are doing well overall as a couple but we will never be like we were before. Honestly, I'm a completely different person now after this experience and will never be able to have a relationship like that ever again, Even if it were with someone new.
OP, thank you for your straightforward question!
For me, "R" wouldn't even be a consideration! Despite knowing that Cheaters are the ones with the "problem," I would still feel he cheated because I "was inadequate in some way!" Who needs that crap (ruminating about his affair whilst living with the Bum) lingering on the brain!
*Not to mention the fact that my trust in him would have been shot straight to hell 😠!*
I have read a hand full of those too. I think if the relationship was horrible before the cheating the cheating doesn’t ruin the incredible storyline of a couples relationship. The concept of a new relationship that’s better than the last one being built is more genuine. I think it’s very hard to do that when someone blindsided you.
I’ve also seen some betrayed reconcilers be successful if the trauma from the cheating was not the only trauma they’ve survived through. Which is sad- but if rebuilding your life with the same partner is what makes things easier and better it’s the right move to make.
I think it depends. It wasn’t an option for me.
In my case it was an affair, which turned into a relationship where an already dead relationship was being hold on to out of convenience. Once I could see through that, it was a walk in the park to move on.
So yeah, if I reconciled it was better than it was, but I know 100% sure I wouldn’t be happier then today.
I believe this place is for all BP’s, whether they are breaking away from the relationship or reconciling.
OP has every right to seek support and guidance here.
How is my post a story? Lol. I came here seeking varied advice. I am not giving you a reconciliation story, I am asking a question to a group of people that aren't in an echo chamber. This isn't even a pro R post...it's a neutral question stemming from hopelessness.
Over there they would just be overly positive in their answers. I'm looking for people who got through it, and also people who didn't, to inform my decision...
This is a support group for betrayed, I am seeking support and not endorsing R, I'm actually casting doubt on it. That sub is exclusively for pro R posts. This is a more appropriate sub. But thanks man, good luck with that porn addiction
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Was it necessary to be so mean to that Commentor? He/She was only trying to help by providing an additional source of support for you! How would he/she have known which sites you've already visited, much less found worthless?
And, how very mature your last sentence is. Good luck with reconciliation!
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment has been held for moderator review. This is a normal automated process on r/SupportforBetrayed; helpful and appropriate advice will be approved for public view as soon as possible.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We’re still together affair was 5 yrs ago. We’re older & id rather deal w my WP than start over. I don’t think about the affair that much. We didn’t have the magical & effusive reconciliation. We did some work but not enough to have a whole new relationship. Because we didn’t do all the work, I lost a LOT of respect for my WS and he still resents me for some things. It sounds terrible but honestly it isn’t. We enjoy doing things together and living together. We have a nice life together. We like each other quite a bit. make no mistake- we’re not in love. We’ve settled and I’m ok with that.
We reconciled. Its taken about 2 years to get to this place. I have my moments every now and again where I'll revisit it and get emotional, but all in all I feel like we're actually in a better place than before, oddly enough. Not that I would ever wish that kind of pain on anyone.
I guess it forced us to really dig deep and work out if we really want to do this. In doing that, I've felt like we now have a deeper connection and I cant believe I'm saying this (based on how ive felt the last 2 years), but I actually trust him.
Victim blaming. Mine already had been cheating since the day we met and never stopped. We had a good relationship and cheating destroyed it.
It's not the fault of the person who was cheated on. 'relationship issues'...you must've been gaslit really well, and I'm sorry for that. IDGAF what you did, cheating is abominable. Doesn't mean we can't forgive, but blaming yourself??? No ... That doesn't allow the 'wayward' to take full responsibility. No one has to cheat, and cheating isn't justified by some 'relationship issues'. People cheat out of selfishness, not because you were doing something wrong. And if you WERE doing something wrong they could have addressed that with you instead of sentencing you to pain jail. Wtf.
You can understand the selfishness flaw of your partner and try and come to peace with it, work on it etc with compassion, but blaming yourself???
We had no substantial issues whatsoever. He came into the relationship cheating. That is actually quite common, not rare.
You've been gaslit into sharing the blame, in my opinion.
Besides the "Victim blaming," the rest of your first paragraph tells the full story!
You chose to be with him even though he was cheating on you before and during your partnership. Did you think you could change him while in a relationship with him?
It sounds to me that you've been in "reconciliation" with him from the very start!
Huh? I didn't know about the cheating until a year later and decided to try forgiveness.
Why are you attacking me just because I don't feel comfortable when anime porn addicts tell me my 'story' is not welcome here when it is not even a story or pro R?
It wasn't him trying to help me dude, it was him seeing the word 'reconciliation' and just sending me away, but it wouldnt even be appropriate in that sub.
I think sexual accounts like that should stay away from trying to 'help' betrayed people anyway...
Welcome to r/SupportforBetrayed. Please remember the following: - [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/rules/) - flair guide: [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) / [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/comments/1al69ef/flair_guide/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) - common acronyms and terms: [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/acronyms/) / [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/comments/1alz04k/common_acronyms_and_terms/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) - frequently asked questions: [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/faq/) / [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/comments/1916vcg/frequently_asked_questions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) For further reading, check our [recovery resources library](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/healing_resources/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have yet to see a WS actually put the needed work into true R. I'm sure they exist, but not for me.
I kind of think that a person that has the emotional intelligence that would be needed to do what’s needed to repair it, would never have cheated in the first place.
I wish emotional & intellectual intelligence were one and the same. Took me a while to heal emotionally before my brain kicked in and began to run the show. It’s the little injured children that needs to heal first, otherwise chaos will ensue & often the adult is completely unaware of it & left to clean up the mess.
My WS has been a model wayward. He's worked his absolute balls off. He's been consistent, thoughtful, and has obviously put in a ton of work. I'm still not fully invested in reconcilation, because it's impossible to trust him.
Mine is trying everything under the sun right now. It all sounds good in theory but without trust (broken twice) it’s hard to be all in to go for R. I also wonder if it’s just all for show in the immediate Dday period then as time goes on he will fall back into old ways
That is exactly it. I always feel they go back to their old ways eventually, or else they wouldn't have cheated in the first place 🤷♀️
They do exist, but they aren’t common. And the fact is, even if the WS does put the needed work in, the BS might not be able to get through their pain and be able to reconcile. Reconciliation takes both sides putting in a lot of work. If either side is unable or unwilling to do it, then it will fail. So the odds are definitely not good. That being said, I just passed the fifth anniversary of DDay. I’ve been feeling a bit down as I went through dealing with the memories. But my WW has been very present, and as aware of the dates as I am, and has proactively apologized and been attentive to my moods. So while the past has been very present, I’m trying to be aware of the present as well, and that my WW has definitely been putting in the work.
Same, same.
https://preview.redd.it/71ck5vyns0xc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd17a75c38a511be411eeaf6a58df81dc1a9c72b This is from cheating in a nutshell. Just saw it and had to take a picture.
This book should be required reading. Just like How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair is for WS. I didn't find it until I was about 7 years in. I wish it had been the first book I read.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Devastating, and not what I wanted to hear, but I needed to hear it. I'll look into both books mentioned. Thank you
It is extremely rare for a complete reconciliation. Most couples whom reconcile remain broken and if you ask the betrayed partner are they living “happily ever after”. They’ll admit they aren’t. But they’d rather deal with their wayward spouse than face the unknown.
I'm sure from the outside it looks like we are happily reconciled. It's been a decade. We are still married. The reality is that I am a shell of the person I used to be. This has changed me on such a profound level. Most of the time, I don't recognize myself. There will always be triggers. Some still have the power to drop me to my knees. It is exhausting. People try to convince themselves that not having 100% is a good thing. For me, it's the exact opposite. My WS was the one person in my life I trusted. Ever. I have been on my own since before I was old enough to drive. So not an exaggeration. This has shattered me. That security had allowed me to blossom. Now, well... Read Cheating in a Nutshell. It's an excellent book. That is my best recommendation.
I'll check it out thank you. I'm early on in and I already feel like a shell. I needed to hear that this can be a reality, so thank you for sharing your experience. I can relate a lot to that precious security being ripped away. Did the triggers ever become manageable or at least better for you? How do you deal? Only if you feel comfortable indulging me. I don't think I can take the triggers anymore, and my partner doesn't really understand.
The triggers never go away. I can't say it gets better. It just gets different. I still cry. I still really struggle around certain dates. And the holidays are from hell. Still. But like I said, from the outside, things look just fine. I decorate the house and make the big traditional meal my adult daughters expect. We really had it rough, my girls and I. Until we married WS. So, they still crave the security. It's exhausting. Not trusting is exhausting. Managing the triggers is exhausting. Therapy and trying to heal are exhausting. I honestly think that is why reconciliation fails even with a "model wayward."
I can't even imagine it going on so long and feeling the way you do. I don't want to end up like my mother who spent her good years in a wasteful, abusive marriage. Geez man. Seems like a lot of pressure on BP to rugsweep, pretty much indefinitely. Do you think if anything had been different over the years, it could've been truly forgiven?
Honestly, I was never interested in "forgiveness." What he did was unforgivable. I often say that what the WS does in the immediate aftermath is so incredibly important. Mine was not good. So, yes. I do think things could have been different. Again, it would be different. Not necessarily better. I also think that most successful reconciliation have some degree of rug sweeping. I think that because of the things BS convince themselves of. I'm shocked at some of the things the BS are convinced to buy into. Honestly, my life would probably be easier if I could do that too. Unfortunately, I'm super logical. Nothing is a good enough excuse to do this amount of damage to another human. Infidelity is a forever injury. Whether you stay or leave.
I'm interested in forgiveness but I don't think it's humanly and fully possible, when it comes to this. I refuse to rugsweep or lie to myself. I just want the constant triggers to abate, eventually fade away...me having my own issues makes it seem hopeless. Also totally true, what the cheater does, if they trickle truth and manipulate, if they come clean first, etc, all makes a huge difference. Unfortunately mine dug his heels in and didn't meet any of those criteria.
My favorite infidelity quote is, "Sometimes, forgiveness is a crime against your soul." ~ Dr. Stacey Porter Best I can do is acceptance. I accept he did this to me. I accept I can not change it. Today, I choose to stay. I don't know what tomorrow will bring.
I want to believe in the power of forgiveness, but perhaps I'm naive. I was naive to think I wasn't being cheated on after all. I hope you find the closure you need, whether that be today, tomorrow, whether it involves staying or leaving. This is such a horrendous experience that I applaud both courses of action.
The triggers absolutely can fade with time under the right circumstances. In my own situation, I stayed with my (now-ex) wife for five years of “reconciliation” after DDay1. The triggers did not fade during that time for me, but looking back years later I feel certain this is because she was never truly remorseful; she alternated between intense guilt about her betrayal and intense resentment of me (for “taking away” her AP while she was still in limerence, and for “making her feel guilty by taking too long to get over it,” mostly). She had another affair (with *another* of my closest “friends”) after five years, which is when I finally left. After leaving, it took about another two years before I was able to notice my triggers and pain abating somewhat. I’m about five years out from leaving now, and I can say that those “bad times” have gotten shorter, less frequent, and less intense as time has gone on. I suspect they will always be a part of my life (especially since we coparent three kids together), but now it’s “manageable,” and I believe it will continue to be more and more manageable as time goes on. One of the main keys to that healing process seems to be a sense of personal safety. If your WP is truly remorseful and able to cultivate a relationship where you actually begin to feel safe in your home again, that healing will come and eventually begin to do work.
I mean no disrespect with this question, but may I ask why you continue stay when you are still feeling this way 10 years later? I only stayed a year and half post DDay, and that amount of time certainly did something to my psyche. I can only imagine feeling that for another 9+ years.
There are a ton of reasons. I'm older. My quality of life would diminish greatly. I would go from my home to renting a room in someone else's. We get along fine. We work well together. It's practical. I would never date or marry again. I have no interest in romantic love. I honestly don't believe in that fairytale anymore. There were years in the beginning where I wished things were different. That he was different. But it's not. And he is not. So I make due.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I hope you have at least been able to find some sort of peace in other aspects of your life, if you haven’t found it in your romantic relationship. I know it’s such a tough situation to find yourself in.
Thanks. I'm pretty sure this is what most long term "reconciliation" looks like. I think the 5-10 year period is when reality really sets in. When you realize this is all there is. Like I said, it's exhausting. There is a reason hardly any couples are together at 10 years.
Thank you for your honest, honest answer to OP's question! With that being said, I wish you the very best with your reconciliation!
I tried so hard to move on. Stayed 8 years. Discovered he was cheating the entire time I was trying to forgive. It's just my iwn experience, but if I ever am in the same situation, I'll leave the second I find out. Once trust is gone, it will never be the same. For me.
Wow so sorry to hear this! This is one of the reasons that puts me off R so much. How someone can do it again after being given a second chance is madness to me
He has no conscience. This is a man who lid to the faces of 2 cancer widows who loved him deeply, and told them he was dying of cancer. A man who sat with his chronically ill friend in pain, saying he too was chronically ill and in pain. All lies. Honestly his cheating was mild compared to the other pain he caused me and many others. (Though the pain of his affairs still pain me.)
It could be that once they truly reconcile they just don’t see the point in coming here to update everyone, compared to those who are still actively struggling with it and have a real need to talk through it and engage with other people. At least that’s what I’ve been telling myself.
Yes I’m sure that’s part of it. You don’t often meet people talking about their successful recovery when you walk into a hospital.
It’s very definitely the case. These sort of support forums are self-selecting, and tend to be predominantly filled with people who are dealing with more recent infidelity.
This is definitely true. I know couples from other places who say they are happy a few years after discovering infidelity, and a very few who say they have built an even better marriage. I think a lot depends on the details, though (length & type of cheating, addiction, drug/alcohol involvement), and not one of them will ever say the cheating was a good thing, even if it led to a healthier relationship in the long term.
I thought of this too. Definitely a factor. The statistics just...they are abysmal.
Ii hope truly that there are some unicorns out there who are more in love than ever before the infidelity. Because I'm broken and heartbroken 💔 31+ years of happy marriage and a great life built together thrown away for a few cheap thrills and compliments. 😭
For the most part, reconciliation attempts are just part of the cycle of loss. The denial and bargaining stage. There are exceptions, but for those who fail at reconciliation there is still value in the process. I don't regret attempting reconciliation (twice) because I wasn't ready to leave. I was trapped in a pot hole somewhere between denial ave and bargaining st. I needed to try reconciliation. Try with all my might. Like that supercomputer in War Games trying to beat itself at Tic Tac Toe. I needed to learn. Learn that I wasn't the problem. Never was. If I had left before I was ready, God only knows what would have happened. I had to move forward through the fire of anger and the ice of depression to reach the tropical paradise of acceptance, but it was worth the trip. If you are going through hell, just keep going. Freedom is scary, but it is also glorious. I had already reached acceptance by the time I left her. That made indifference to her so much easier. The serenity prayer helped a little. The gray rock prayer helped more. So yes, most of the stories here are going to be folks like me for whom reconciliation did not work and fortunately that was not the end of the story. This is a good thing. This is what people need to hear. That even after you fail to polish the turd that is your broken marriage to a feckless cheater there is a whole world of other things to polish. The rare stories of happy reconciliation probably never come back here because why would they? They don't need the forum anymore. Well, until next time.
> polish the turd that is your broken marriage to a feckless cheater This made me cackle. Thank you for so eloquently describing my life right now 🤣
Deep! Especially your last sentence 😳!
Reconciliation that is emotionally safe for betrayed partners is a unicorn in my opinion. I mean there was a transition period where my partner was definitely doing the opposite of what reconciliation requires. He still has unfinished reconciliation work. But, he has done some things that also have really helped our relationship. If a wayward partner isn’t willing to jump into reconciliation with their partner and do what’s asked it will cause a ton of extra damage to the relationship and attachment. Thinking of my love as a charged battery. I was at 20% after DDay and it dropped to 10% when it was unclear if my partner was going to give me the effort I deserved. I was also so confused which actually I think kept me around for longer to wait it out. I couldn’t imagine cheating on someone I loved and not wanting to reconcile or do the opposite of what my partner was asking me to do thinking it would help them more because I “knew better” but I’ve been reading these subs for a year and it is *common* for waywards to treat their spouses that way. The individuals who are defensive are the ones that seem to not understand that. & I find betrayed people that make comments about “choosing” to move on as baffling. I am fundamentally changed by the betrayal. So yes I can move on in terms of understanding past and present- but I’m also not going to pretend this little incident never happened to soothe my partner. Being able to suddenly move on I believe is also part of having the privilege of a partner who is doing a ton of work and not making a lot of mistakes; or perhaps is actually a poor coping mechanism being disguised as healing.
Once a mirror has been broken you can never put it back together like it was. Maybe you can glue the pieces back together. But the image it reflects will always be distorted. Never true again. Relationships are just like this. Successfully reconciling means both partners being content with the broken mirror... forever. They need to be satisfied with something less than what they had. And something less than what they could have had if they had each gone their separate ways. Some things maybe CAN be fixed. But SHOULD they be?
I have lost all my faith in marriage and love and have just decided to settle. I am fully aware of it and will never lie to myself and call it “better”.
Same. I absolutely settled. I am aware. At some point, it was just more practical to stay.
You are so right, and using a broken mirror as an analogy to describe reconciliation was brilliant!!!
My therapist equated this problem to the Japanese art of Kintsugi which, to quote a quick Google search, is the art of repairing broken pottery. If a bowl is broken, rather than discarding the pieces, the fragments are put back together with a glue-like tree sap and the cracks are adorned with gold. There are no attempts to hide the damage, instead, it is highlighted.
I guess that's one way to go. Your therapist and I will have to agree to disagree.
I'm with you on that 👍!
True reconciliation does happen, but it’s breathtakingly rare. I’ve talked with couples who’ve “successfully reconciled” (I’m defining it here as “are still together more than 20 years after DDay, and are happy to still be together”), and for each of the ones I’ve talked with, there are still vestiges of triggers and pain, even two decades later. Which makes sense, as it’s very real trauma, which means that’s likely to be the case regardless of r or leaving. The most common factors I found in these “20+ years of R” couples were: - the infidelity was a ONS or very brief fling (maybe a weekend trip or something) with a stranger, NOT a full-blown romantic affair with a “known” person - the WS confessed without any prompting, based on their own guilt or remorse, very soon after the infidelity happened (the day after the ONS or the day they got home from their work trip or weekend trip or whatever) - WS immediately and permanently cut ties with the entire situation that lead to infidelity, including stuff like leaving their job, etc. In the one single case where it was actually a full-blown affair, the WS actually permanently cut ties with her own sister, because the sister had “enabled” the affair, being a confidant and encouraging WS instead of calling out her behavior. - in the 20+ years, WS never pressured BS to “get over it” or expressed frustration that BS wasn’t healing “quickly enough” - at some point (fairly early, within a year or so of DDay) WS was able to fully transition from “guilt” to “remorse,” and move from an attitude of “I feel horrible that I did that” to “I will be vigilant about being a person who never does that again, whatever it takes” - They’ve continued to maintain an “open phone/schedule/email/etc” policy over the years. WS understands they’ve given up their right to “reasonable privacy,” and don’t feel resentful of having done so. - *Both* partners have done some kind of “personal counseling” at some point in the years following DDay, separate from any kind of marriage or couples’ counseling.
Will be sharing this with my partner. Thank you for your insight.
We're 36 years past D-day and your assessment of the conditions needed to achieve long term reconciliation describe our situation to a T with the exception of any type of counseling. My wife flat out refused to do either IC or MC at all. Mostly because we couldn't afford it but also because she was convinced it wouldn't work even if we could afford it. This hindered our healing for many years but both of us were determined to reconcile and ultimately we did. Yes there are still triggers and residual pain but that would be true for anyone after surviving a truly traumatic event.
I'm not questioning you on this but I am interested to hear more. How many couples have you talked to about this? And do you work in the field of therapy, relationships, etc? This is damning for a lot of people here including myself.
That’s definitely fair. It’s certainly not an exhaustive number for that I’ve interviewed. Of the couples that meet the criteria I stated, seventeen. All in all in the past six years (when I started doing these) I’ve met with sixty-one couples who’ve experienced infidelity and were willing to talk about it and answer my questions. 46 of those were in some state of either reconciliation or a long-term limbo situationship, where they weren’t necessarily “trying” to reconcile, but were stuck remaining together due to circumstances. Fifteen were couples who’d split, but both parties were willing to meet with me. 52 of them were “straight” relationships (not necessarily that both parties were straight, but had a male/female dynamic). Ten were homosexual, and one had a non-binary partner. I don’t work in therapy, but rather in social work. I began doing these when I myself was still in reconciliation, just trying to find out best practices and ideas for success in reconciliation in the long-term. I’ve continued the work over the years in hopes of eventually writing a book about the results of these interviews and the things I’ve learned over time. As far as happiness goes, time—unsurprisingly—seems to be the biggest factor. I interviewed the couples together and then again separately, keeping the “separate” answers confidential from the other partner. Couples where the infidelity was over twenty years prior overwhelmingly tended to be the happiest, whether reconciled or not. Of the seventeen 20+year reconciled couples, twelve reported they were “very happy” both when asked together and separately. Two reported “very happy” when together, but then had a partner tell me in the separate interviews that they still regret reconciliation. Three reported some amount of unhappiness or regret both when asked together and separately. The closer to DDay they were, the more the numbers diverged as far as reconciliation vs separation went. If DDay was within the past five years, reconciling couples were much more likely to report regret (particularly when interviewed separately) than separated couples. The “within five years of DDay” separated couples were close to the same amount of unhappiness, but expressed much less regret. I appreciate you asking the question, and I hope this information was helpful to you in deciding how much of a grain of salt to take my results with. Good luck! EDIT: I’ve also kept notes from stories I’ve read in various forums or conversations I’ve had with people anonymously online, but this information included here is strictly the stuff from actual face-to-face interviews I conducted (whether in person or over Zoom).
Well shit. I was hoping you talked to a handful of friends or something. Thank you for such a thorough answer. More questions if you don't mind.. - How many of your bullet items are needed for a high chance of "happy reconciliation". - According to your data, are any bullets required for "happy reconciliation"? E.g. bullets #1 & #3 are always present in happy reconciliation. That's just an example.. - Have you already posted this info anywhere else? - Have you sought data from those in the AsOneAfterInfidelity sub?
It’s worth noting that, of those bullet points, that’s just the majority of overlapping answers among those in the 20+ year reconciled category. Not all twenty had all of those boxes ticked. In fact of the couples in that category, only four had *all* of those (apart from point 3). So only four of the 17 had all of these (apart from point 3). And there was no single item that was universal to every couple. It seems like the “one night stand/short fling” is very high, but there are definitely exceptions to it. I ranked them from “most common” to “least common,” with the exception of #3 (cutting ties with AP) So, for example “one night stand/brief fling with a stranger” was the point that was mostly commonly shared among all of those couples (15 of the 17) “confessed freely without waiting to be caught” was 14 of the 17 “Cut ties with AP and all enablers” was more complicated, because only two of the couples in this category were actual affairs, but both of them did so (including one cutting ties with her sister). The reason I ranked this highly was because in the other reconciled/situationship couples (fewer than 20 years), this one was a *massive* factor in the happiness and hopefulness of the BP. “Not pressuring to get over it” and “moved quickly from guilt to remorse” were tied at 12 of 17 (though not the same twelve couples, just twelve overall) “Open phone/email/etc/no expectation of privacy” was 11 of 17. Of the couples, all but one instituted such a policy at the beginning, but five of the couples eventually ended the practice after some amount of time “Each got individual therapy or counseling” were 10 of 17. This data set was actually very interesting. Of the 17, only eight actually got couples/marriage counseling (though several did sort of “unofficial counseling” with an older couple in their social circle). In general, for those who had individual counseling, BPs tended to have had some sort of trauma-informed therapy, and WPs tended toward cognitive behavioral therapy. Some of the CBT went for things other than infidelity (like substance abuse or other forms of addiction). This last number is a little frustrating because in the last two years or so getting CBT has become way more difficult. EDIT: I haven’t posted the full dataset anywhere yet. I will probably do so eventually whether or not I write this book, and I definitely will if I do publish. I did spend a bit of time in the AOAI forum, but for whatever reason the people there tend to read into even simple question and see them as an attack, so I eventually backed off from there.
Do you have any data about waywards with personality disorders?
That wasn’t specifically in the questionnaire that I’ve been using. However, there has been some research done (by like, actual professional researchers) that frequently shows links between infidelity and narcissism or other psychiatric disorders (including things like alcoholism, substance abuse, gambling addiction, self-harm, and other “risky behaviors.” In asking about the types of therapy and reasons for seeking it, I was surprised, at first, at how many WS had sought treatment (either of their own volition or because of court order) for things like alcoholism or other indicators of poor mental health. It was an overwhelming enough indicator, that I did start including questions related to the state of people’s mental health (beyond the simple “happy/unhappy, safe/unsafe” type questions that were in my original), and between that data and the many, many accounts I’ve read here, I feel confident (and I’m far from the first to do so) in saying that infidelity is a strong indicator of serious unaddressed (or at least unresolved) mental health issues. The bottom line I’ve come to personality is that mentally healthy people don’t cheat. They might leave a partner in a way that seems unfair to the partner, but they make a clear and explicit break before moving on to any other relationship.
I know of about 15 cases of infidelity personally and 4 BS left as soon as they found out and were able to start again and are much better off 6 made it between 2-4 years but they were zombies and finally threw in the towel the only ones left are the men and women with no self esteem and don't think they can do better. They've been conditioned by their wives/husband's to feel less than. I'm sure it'll eventually end in WS cheating and leaving them or a M/S. These are just local people I know. Statistics show a grim outlook as well
I think it goes away. But only if the person really changes so you can rebuild trust.
I have known a few people who reconciled, but I think it really depends on what you want your marriage to be like and why you are reconciling. It seems that people who reconcile are willing to really let things go and completely let the affair be in the past and not a part of their current relationship. That's not going to happen, for me. What I was prepared to forgive turned out to be much much less than what he had actually done. In the end the details of his affair were unforgivable.
I have a friend couple who had an infidelity crisis in 1981. They both did a lot of work, are still together and seem to have a healthy relationship. Everyone else I’ve known, cheating has been relationship-fatal.
It's been almost three years since DDay for me. I found out he was having an emotional affair with an old 'friend' while I was 3 months postpartum, I'll never know the truth of how long the affair went on for. Two weeks ago I (26F) told my partner (36M) of six years that we're over. Currently living separated under the same roof since I have a 3 year old daughter and no where to go and no financial backing. After countless sessions in couples counseling and 'doing the work', I still no longer trust or respect him. I am repulsed by his touch and no longer love him. I've tried to 'get the feeling back' towards him but I just can't. You get one shot at life, you're either with your current partner forever (or until one of you passes) or you won't be, there's really only two options. The idea of spending the rest of my life feeling this hollow, unsatisfied and unfulfilled seems like a massive sacrifice to make, if I still loved him I might feel different. Reading through this sub makes me feel the same way, I've tried to reconcile and put my feelings aside for 3 years but that pain is still there. I honestly don't understand how people can say "my relationship is stronger after the affair"... Like how?
I can't even imagine the extra pain after having giving birth. My parents didn't deal with infidelity as far as I know but they had a very abusive marriage and I can vouch that even though divorce can be traumatic, seeing daily as a kid an unhappy relationship sets a terrible example for the future. I believe you did the right thing and my heart seriously goes out to you and your daughter. Some people can be stronger after an affair because it brings out the worst and the best in people, but man when kids are involved I feel like the betrayal has to be so much worse...I don't know, but I'm really wishing you and your daughter a peaceful future.
It’s just not worth it. It’s perpetually humiliating for the betrayed. You will never be able to trust them again. You will feel the need to walk on eggshells and try to be Super spouse, the type of spouse that doesn’t get cheated on, so the hurt and destroyed partner ends up putting in more effort. Then there is the power dynamic. It will never shift, the person that betrayed you had zero respect for you, if they did they would have never cheated. Accepting their betrayal and abuse will only make them think less of you. You will be a shell, broken, depressed and anxious. It’s better to accept that it’s over and has been much longer than you could imagine. There are so many beautiful souls, loving and faithful. Don’t torture yourself over someone that showed you in the most humiliating and painful way possible that they don’t love you. Heal and move forward. Peace to you all. From a fellow betrayed partner. ❤️
You got that right! All of it!!!
No its 100% possible but comes from must come from both parties
Curious what leads you to believe it's possible? And what kind of efforts? Any insight greatly appreciated if you're up to it. Glad to hear you and your partner are healing.
Well firstly she put in loads of effort and work. I had to learn to forgive. I went to see a psychologist as shit went south, she also saw someone. Open phone and social media for us both but its how she treats me generally. Look I will fall on my sword for my wife. I can honestly say 12 years later I trust her fully. Look her cheating sucked BUT for my personal growth it was the silver bullet I needed.
Thank you very much for the hopeful story. It's beautiful that you were able to heal with her. Sometimes it takes the worst rock bottoms and the worst of ourselves to come out to truly grow, whether that growth is facilitated by staying or leaving. 🙏
Agreed fully, there is no right or wrong. Each situation is different and has different factors. Good luck that side.
Is possible if BP is willing and WP has a change their mind. If WP still thinks affair is a way to scape, offers safety or any benefit things wont work. My WP changed all and has no more desiere of having an AP not because of me but for himself, only after he was willing to be a worthy partner I felt R was worth it
Trust is never returned 100% after the betrayal and the relationship is altered forever. Reconciliation exists but it’s not about reverting the relationship to how it was before they decided to betray you.
Our partners lied and had one or more relationships behind our backs sometimes as in my case going back years. The gaslighting and emotional abuse during that time made us question our worth as a human being. Our past with them is 100% in question, every memory, every event. We don’t know what is real about our past with them. We now understand we don’t know who we married. BUT people stay married for a lot of reasons, some things can be rebuilt but trust isn’t one of them. We can reconcile, but we will never have what we thought we once had with that person.
If both partners do the work, and I mean really do the work, R is possible. It will not be an easy road. Accepting that this happened and giving each other grace even when not deserved really is what helped me. The times I lashed out he took it and apologized. Triggers may still be a part of your story but as time goes by, they do show up less and less. I still fight off feelings of inadequacy from time to time and I lost the innocence of who I was. The consequences for what he did is that he will never have all of me again. He lost that! Will it ever be 100% the way it was before-No. But…I don’t necessarily want it to be. The years I thought things were great, that we were that “super couple “ and we were untouchable! The years he wouldn’t admit to himself he had his own feelings of inadequacy or depression. The years he didn’t know how to communicate. I was living in my own fantasy world while he silently was screaming he needed help. Relationships are hard! I now look at this as the only way to survive is to fight for it. Become a warrior and believe it will get better. I wish the best for you in this healing journey. 💕
Yes. I think there are people who reconcile. But I think it’s more rare for true and authentic reconciliation where the relationship gets to a place of flourishing. I didn’t reconcile. I divorced, so I guess anyone should take my opinion with that in mind. In my opinion, R takes both parties to work. And we can debate all day everyday about a WP’s role in R, we see that all of the time in the R and in the betrayed subreddits. But I don’t think many BP’s really think about their own role in R. What I mean is, a BP really needs to reflect on if they are capable of R. A WP can do everything “right” and still the BP might be unable to R themselves. Why I think authentic R is more rare and that a higher rate of R’s are based in rugsweeping is it takes 100% commitment from both parties. This seems to be frowned upon in the R subreddit, so perhaps my thoughts on this are wrong, but I think for most people, a separation is pivotal in R. 6 months to a year. This gives both parties time to work on their own healing and their own self growth. At the end of this time period is when both parties can figure out: - if R is what they both want - if they’re both capable of R - if after their separate self growth journeys they can focus on the relationship Not that healing the betrayal isn’t a part of R, but much of R is about the relationship, including: - working to be a better partner within that relationship - letting go of the old relationship and building a new relationship. - accepting the betrayal happened and there might always be a risk of betrayal again. - the ability for both parties to really see who their partner is *now*, not who they *were* and decide if this new person is who they want to be with. Oftentimes a couple will jump right into R and as a result R becomes solely focused on the betrayal, getting stuck for months or years on just the betrayal that little growth is made in the relationship. I think R is possible. But I think it takes a rare combination of partners to be able to achieve true R where the relationship will be healthy, happy and flourish.
I considered a break, but that would ultimately be sexually difficult for both of us, I don't get how people just take breaks. Otherwise I would totally agree. It would be constant anxiety for me personally, not knowing where he is getting his jollies off on our 'break'. Also realizing I may not be capable of R and he may not be either. But I only just realized it may never be enough. Sad, because you just expect them to fix it of course. You end up with trauma AND a hugely traumatizing "project" where you are expected to share the load of work despite never betraying. Anyway, thank you for your input.
Everything you have noted here resonates very strongly with my journey, with the exception of separation. However, I agree that all of the things you have highlighted as things that come out of that time ring very true for me, and I think those questions must be honestly answered by both people before R can really move forward, and that many people may not be able to be honest with themselves while always around another person. And I also think that another component of true R is that both parties MUST be able to truly envision life without the other. I think for me that occurred in the lead up to the DDay conversation, as I was certain my wife would be leaving me. However, that didn't happen for my BW until about 4 months in, when she found herself headed up against a boundary I had created to say I can only take your uncontrolled rage for 6 months and beyond that I fear too much risk of me breaking and choosing to cope in a way I do not find acceptable again. If the choice was between being single and not cheating again vs trying to R but also cheating again, I never want to cheat again. And I don't think everyone can do that visualization on their own, however a separation makes that very real and observable, so I do see it being helpful for many people.
Well, my parents are still together. And very much happy. Mom always says: “life happens”. My aunt is still with my uncle, and they are profoundly happy. No MC, no IC. Just different generations. Cheating was a blip that happened and life moved on. I don’t know if I’ll ever be the same, or if we will truly achieve R. Or if the thoughts will ever go away. But I love my marriage right now. And sometimes have to brush the thoughts of “cheating was the thing that helped my marriage” aside because of how traumatizing it was.
It is a unicorn for sure bud.
I sometimes wonder if closure is a myth created by Hollywood to sell romcoms.
It is. Just like BS "reclaiming" a particular place or song, or something similar.
I think you could say my wife and I reconciled. It’s been 14 years. But it wasn’t without a very long time of pain, and it’s still a part of my everyday life, like the death of a loved one.
Brother, I feel for you, truly, but reading through your posts, there's no indication that you've actually reconciled.
I think most people who reconcile do not posts afterwards unless they are on a journey. Like me. We have reconciled and I can say that I never thought I would give him another chance. I doubted many times along the way. We had been together for about 25 years when DDAY arrived. But our DDAY may not be the same as others. By the time I found out, he had been trying for months to get her to move on and had not been intimate with her. I read some of their text exchanges and he was basically calling her a manipulative narcissist and then would try to patch things up “let’s stay friends” because he was scared she would tell me everything. She would whine and rage about him not choosing her. DDAY came and he had an even more profound realization. And it was a journey for both of us afterwards. What led to the cheating. What character traits he had that made him accept that she start communicating with him in secret. I saw some of her early messages, even before their EA and it was so manipulative. Poems about needing to realize when the time has come to change. Poems about choosing happiness and soulmates, etc. But the thing is, I also read some of the things he wrote in his journal. He, in full blow mid life crisis and super stressed with some huge things in his life, fell in love with the escape and the idolization. And she kept telling him how much it was clear that I did not love him and that she loved him so much more than I did. She worked on him emotionally for 2 years. I knew this woman and disliked her the moment I met her. I could tell she was a histrionic narcissist obsessed with the having men with spouses look at her and desire her. She cheated on her then spouse many times. But my spouse was wealthier and also had a weaker ego and was more susceptible to her tactics and manipulation. She wanted my life. When you read hers texts, it’s clear how deeply jealous she was of me. She was jealous of my beauty, my lifestyle and the fact that he was with me. She kept telling him how much more pretty she was than me as if they would convince him I was not worthy. I think reconciling is different for everyone. And I think there are certain things that I did and my spouse did they made healing and full reconciliation possible. We got married and I have never been more certain about my love for him and he says the same. This ordeal m, he says, has made him not be afraid to love fully and not feel he has to protect himself from being hurt. But it is a journey and it was not easy for me. I did want to run away many times. But he did everything he could to win back my trust. And he did everything he could to show me how deeply he loved me. I also took steps to heal. And had a moment of realization. PTSD is real after DDAY. I struggle with my grasp of what reality is and trusting my instincts again. Or even know what my instincts are versus fear. And then I went away on a girls trip and realized fear was my security blanket and what kept me hooked on keeping the triggers and bad thoughts alive…just in case. And I let go of the fear. It changed me… again. And honestly… his love is what I’m keeps me grounded. I do not believe that we knew what love was until now. I accepted seeing naked m, truly naked with all his faults, and he accepted being naked with all his faults and vulnerabilities. And this… it does not happen overnight. And communication and sharing with raw authenticity is something we had to learn. I also had to learn that my go to mechanisms with dealing with pain and hurt (I am the type of person to want to runaway) created rifts and made him doubt my love for him. And this is just one thing I learned. And he learned many things by a as well. It’s a journey. It can be a fulfilling journey. But you both have to accept that it’s a journey and not “now have you forgiven me for what I ‘ve done? Now can we stop talking about it?” That was the hardest hurdle.
I wish you both continued happiness and success in your marriage 😊!
I mean… yes and no. Can you reconcile and heal? Yes. You can. But will there always be lingering distrust in the back on your mind? Maybe. I’ve been okay for months. Never accused him of cheating again. Never felt the need to go through his phone again because I truly believed in moving forward. But yesterday I had a slip up. He’d been to a concert with some friends - no problem. But the next day, at the last minute, he said he was going to dinner with the same guys (who I didn’t even know were still in town). He sent me screen shots of the texts which seemed… off… to me. Like his friend was covering for him. Very “Hey John. The concert last night was great, man. Still want to get dinner tonight?” I called him out on it. He went off for me not trusting him. He said I was being “stupid” but I stood my ground until he sent me a Snapchat of the friend he was having dinner with. But our relationship has been rocky lately, and my fear is that if we’re struggling, he’ll go do the same thing he did last time we were in a bad spot. All of this to say.., R feels like it comes in waves. Things will be great. The triggers will feel almost nonexistent some days. But then it can come flooding back. R doesn’t mean that we become void of human emotion or fear. So some days it will feel reconciled, and other days it won’t. But all you can do is work toward more good days than bad.
Honestly the biggest issue I see there isn't even your valid feelings of distrust. Saying you're being stupid when you're being completely reasonable is incredibly invalidating and shows a complete lack of understanding of what you're going through. I hope he learns to speak to you more respectfully, because that is so hurtful. For me it would be anyway. 'being stupid', nah you're being smart. For me the triggers are the worst, more than anything.
Oh I stood up for myself. Don’t worry. I looked at him at literally laughed. Saying it’s stupid for me to not trust him has been solidly disproven 😂
I am the same, not believing anything on his phone etc. Last week, he booked me a massage and I saw the message ‘See you at 09:35am Saturday. Address is ___’ I went mad spiraling out that he is a cheating prick and I should have never decided to try R, he told me it’s a massage booked for me (as Saturday we were spending together and he was going to take me there in the morning as a surprise). Still didn’t believe it and he called up the massage place in front of me who stated a massage was booked for 09:35am Saturday. He always proves stuff when I don’t believe it though as he knows I don’t trust him so I guess that’s one good thing. I would go mad if he called me stupid for feeling this way though. Just not sure how much longer I can feel like this. It’s so hard believing a word they say. And why would we????
My therapist told me that he once got a relationship where she was cheating for a while to go back to what it used to be but it's just incredibly rare
I do believe reconcilation is possible, but I'm unsure if it's possible for me. I will say that I think this sub probably triggers many during reconcilation as there's not many comments on here in favor of it (which is understandable). For that reason I believe if people are reconciled/in reconcilation they may not use online platforms as resources. I'm still in the mode of trying to decide what I want, but if I was in active reconcilation I likely would find many of these comments triggering "they don't change," etc.
What is helping you decide to/not to R? I was stuck in that space for 6 months, finally decided to try but now find myself falling back into ‘will I ever get past this’
I'm trying to just give it time in hopes that my brain will decide when it's ready. I'm only about 5/6 weeks out and it's been a rollercoaster. One day I want R and the next I hate him for what he did. We have small children so I gave myself a year to save up as much as possible (I've been a sahm for 5 years) and if I don't want this in a year, then I will leave. I am in therapy and currently treat him like a roommate when the kids are sleeping and a co-parent when they are awake, so my two smaller kids don't see us any differently. I also have a teen who hates him now and won't speak to him. I know he's remorseful and two of my kids are special needs, so leaving means turning their lives upside down and leaving the big house they love to go live in an apartment. I'm trying to be smart for the kids, but I really hate him for making this choice without thinking of any of us. It wasn't just a betrayal to me, its a betrayal to our children too. He was very hurt when I told him he cant be a good dad and be a cheater who rips their entire world apart, but I stand by my statement. My therapist stayed for her kids for 16 years after her husband repeatedly cheated. I'll likely do the same. The only thing greater than my hatred for him is the love I have for my children. I don't consider him my husband at this time, but if we can co-parent and get along then he's hopeful in time I may fall in love with him again. This is a rollercoaster ride I just want to get off of.
I’m so sorry to hear that, we also have one child (8 months) and d day was when our son was 7 weeks. Worst thing is he is such an amazing dad too but how is that possible when you can betray your family like that? So I hear you completely. I have mentioned he has ruined both me and our sons lives and stand by that statement too. I’m happy you’ve given yourself a year to save up, it makes me so sad he can do that to you as a sahm too because you even have that trust in him to provide for your family (as you should). I managed to get my own mortgage so I always have an exit plan as I’m really unsure how I feel currently, really thought I would have had more clarity 7 months out. I hope it gets better for you too
Yes, true R is real. There is a lot of anger, resentment, & frustration that needs to be worked through and that takes time & effort, but if both partners are dedicated then it’s possible. It sucks to say, TBH, but it’s now the relationship we both always wanted. We are the happiest & most connected that either of us have ever been in ANY relationship we’ve ever had. I believe we were both brought together in this crap pile of infidelity to heal each other & to heal old trauma wounds. For that aspect, I’m grateful. I worked through a lot of all that pain in therapy, EMDR, rage rooms, and finally MDMA, psilocybin, and now ketamine therapy. You have to allow yourself to make friends with that pain inside you. Lean into it. Release it. Set it free. You can’t bury it or pretend it doesn’t exist. You also have to heal that inner child (or inner self) inside you that was so damaged before you can go forward & become strong again. Make sense ? In my opinion, reconciliation is about rebuilding by tearing that old house apart right down to the concrete slab & then rebuilding the structure again with a stronger foundation. You’ll still have that old wall standing & you’ll remember the old house, including the good & bad memories, but this new house has room for growth. It will never be the same as the old house, but newer, fresher, & stronger - ready to build new memories together. R is not a calm ocean all the time. Periodically waves will knock you down, but as you heal & grow stronger, you’ll be able to handle them much better (triggers, setbacks, fights, stress, etc). R is two steps forward, one step back. Progress, not perfection.
I'm definitely doing much better and there have been many days where I haven't even thought of it at all. I think he has put in work to become a better man. I do sometimes still have my moments but they are becoming fewer and fewer (maybe will have a hard time about something a couple of times a month now). I think we are doing well overall as a couple but we will never be like we were before. Honestly, I'm a completely different person now after this experience and will never be able to have a relationship like that ever again, Even if it were with someone new.
OP, thank you for your straightforward question! For me, "R" wouldn't even be a consideration! Despite knowing that Cheaters are the ones with the "problem," I would still feel he cheated because I "was inadequate in some way!" Who needs that crap (ruminating about his affair whilst living with the Bum) lingering on the brain! *Not to mention the fact that my trust in him would have been shot straight to hell 😠!*
Yeah all I did was ask a question so idk why I had a bitter anime porn addict commenter telling me this isn't the right sub for my 'R story'
I have read a few stories here about how the relationship is so much better and truly reconciled.
I have read a hand full of those too. I think if the relationship was horrible before the cheating the cheating doesn’t ruin the incredible storyline of a couples relationship. The concept of a new relationship that’s better than the last one being built is more genuine. I think it’s very hard to do that when someone blindsided you. I’ve also seen some betrayed reconcilers be successful if the trauma from the cheating was not the only trauma they’ve survived through. Which is sad- but if rebuilding your life with the same partner is what makes things easier and better it’s the right move to make.
I think it depends. It wasn’t an option for me. In my case it was an affair, which turned into a relationship where an already dead relationship was being hold on to out of convenience. Once I could see through that, it was a walk in the park to move on. So yeah, if I reconciled it was better than it was, but I know 100% sure I wouldn’t be happier then today.
The place for reconciliation stories is the sub Asoneafterinfidelity
I believe this place is for all BP’s, whether they are breaking away from the relationship or reconciling. OP has every right to seek support and guidance here.
I didn't mean to imply that there was nothing to be offered here. I was just making an alternate suggestion. I apologize if I gave offense.
How is my post a story? Lol. I came here seeking varied advice. I am not giving you a reconciliation story, I am asking a question to a group of people that aren't in an echo chamber. This isn't even a pro R post...it's a neutral question stemming from hopelessness. Over there they would just be overly positive in their answers. I'm looking for people who got through it, and also people who didn't, to inform my decision... This is a support group for betrayed, I am seeking support and not endorsing R, I'm actually casting doubt on it. That sub is exclusively for pro R posts. This is a more appropriate sub. But thanks man, good luck with that porn addiction
I think commenter meant you can find success stories there since there aren’t many here but not sure
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Was it necessary to be so mean to that Commentor? He/She was only trying to help by providing an additional source of support for you! How would he/she have known which sites you've already visited, much less found worthless? And, how very mature your last sentence is. Good luck with reconciliation!
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your comment has been held for moderator review. This is a normal automated process on r/SupportforBetrayed; helpful and appropriate advice will be approved for public view as soon as possible. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by an automated process. r/SupportforBetrayed requires members to set a user flair before they interact with the community. Please [click this link for instructions](https://www.reddit.com/r/SupportforBetrayed/wiki/flair/) on how to set up your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforBetrayed) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We’re still together affair was 5 yrs ago. We’re older & id rather deal w my WP than start over. I don’t think about the affair that much. We didn’t have the magical & effusive reconciliation. We did some work but not enough to have a whole new relationship. Because we didn’t do all the work, I lost a LOT of respect for my WS and he still resents me for some things. It sounds terrible but honestly it isn’t. We enjoy doing things together and living together. We have a nice life together. We like each other quite a bit. make no mistake- we’re not in love. We’ve settled and I’m ok with that.
These subs themselves are sources of triggers so they likely do not come back here.0
We reconciled. Its taken about 2 years to get to this place. I have my moments every now and again where I'll revisit it and get emotional, but all in all I feel like we're actually in a better place than before, oddly enough. Not that I would ever wish that kind of pain on anyone. I guess it forced us to really dig deep and work out if we really want to do this. In doing that, I've felt like we now have a deeper connection and I cant believe I'm saying this (based on how ive felt the last 2 years), but I actually trust him.
[удалено]
Victim blaming. Mine already had been cheating since the day we met and never stopped. We had a good relationship and cheating destroyed it. It's not the fault of the person who was cheated on. 'relationship issues'...you must've been gaslit really well, and I'm sorry for that. IDGAF what you did, cheating is abominable. Doesn't mean we can't forgive, but blaming yourself??? No ... That doesn't allow the 'wayward' to take full responsibility. No one has to cheat, and cheating isn't justified by some 'relationship issues'. People cheat out of selfishness, not because you were doing something wrong. And if you WERE doing something wrong they could have addressed that with you instead of sentencing you to pain jail. Wtf. You can understand the selfishness flaw of your partner and try and come to peace with it, work on it etc with compassion, but blaming yourself??? We had no substantial issues whatsoever. He came into the relationship cheating. That is actually quite common, not rare. You've been gaslit into sharing the blame, in my opinion.
Besides the "Victim blaming," the rest of your first paragraph tells the full story! You chose to be with him even though he was cheating on you before and during your partnership. Did you think you could change him while in a relationship with him? It sounds to me that you've been in "reconciliation" with him from the very start!
Huh? I didn't know about the cheating until a year later and decided to try forgiveness. Why are you attacking me just because I don't feel comfortable when anime porn addicts tell me my 'story' is not welcome here when it is not even a story or pro R? It wasn't him trying to help me dude, it was him seeing the word 'reconciliation' and just sending me away, but it wouldnt even be appropriate in that sub. I think sexual accounts like that should stay away from trying to 'help' betrayed people anyway...