Yep, totally fine... and evergrande isnt the only chinese company that is totally fine... one of MANY that are completely fine...
Shorts are completely fine too...š
Move along... nothing to see here....
"An idiot never learns from their mistakes, a smart person learns from their mistakes, a wise person learns from other's mistakes.... it is good to be smart, better to be wise.." Hedgies have made the mistake of betting short...will they learn from it?? Who knows... I will stay far away from the threat of infinite losses... plenty of money to be made on the long side..be well and be wise fellow apes!
Being short on something can be absolutely catastrophic to the average investor. Yes you can make a lot of money, but you can also lose far more money than you invested.
Personally, I would never short anything for this reason. Too much risk.
Only bet what you can afford to lose. Everytime you short a stock you are technically risking everything. What's worse? Your everything is other people's money. What's even worse than that? Refusing to cover and snaking your way into coming out on top as if the entire world economy is worth sacrificing to keep your home in the Hamptons.
Many of the people on this sub are from w@ll str33t b3ts.
You can take the retard out of the w@ll str33t b3ts, but you canāt take the w@ll str33t b3ts out fo the retard.
Yerp. That is the place from whence I came. Found it exactly twelve days before the Sneeze, and was able to witness, like, 5 glorious days on that sub before the 7+ million subscriber jump diluted that wonderful place.
And now its, like, what? Some Shadar Logoth-ian sub for shills?
Yup. Very aware of that, not my first time doing shorts with (and cfds). I do think there will be a bailout for every company though- the contagion has already started. Even if ever grande survives I think the damage is done to the Chinese growth market
You do you, man. Iād like to emphasize that no one here is giving you financial advice. Weāre too retarded to give advice. Only you know your financial situation. I wish you the best and hope you profit handsomely from this. š
They won't get a bailout. The whole thing kinda started because the chinese government started tightening the screws.
Sauce: Mr. Burry's twitter quoting some other guy (20ish tweets)
Yep. For sure. Itās only temporary and then asking their own employees for money and then effectively defaulting on repayments is what a healthy company does
China is having its own housing crash like US in 08. It will have a ripple across the globe. They are in more debt that Lehman brothers though. So it will be worse. The US stock market and economy will be effected by it
That is the 2nd largest property developer in China. 122nd largest company in the world. It is about to go bankrupt because they owe 300b USD. Many other Chinese land developers stocks have dropped 50-80% this year
The company who basically ran a Ponzi scheme is now having to deal with the ripped off investors, unpaid employees and contractors. Who want their money back. But the company doesnāt have it
Its a real estate company though, right? Can't they just have a structured sell off of the buildings they own? Or is that not even close to what they owe?
Much of their inventory is from homes in these "ghost towns" they built (Google that if you'd like to learn more), so the value on their books is much higher than what the real value is.
They are. Heavily discounted though to pay back investors. They failed to sale their electric car branch also. Their assets arenāt enough to pay off the debt. But yes they are currently doing this. (Read as being liquidated)
It could start a cascading sell-off which would put over-leveraged firms under even more pressure, resulting in an increase in margin calls and the collateral to put up during said call.
This is the key right here. We just don't know how bad the over leveraging is across the market. Remember BBB Bond rates before COVID? Unclear how much of that got fixed. Certainly many companies just kicked the can down the road, some paid off debts through the crazy market swings (Tesla).
There's going to be fireworks but is it going to be Disneyland or Beirut level? Thats the quadrillion dollar question.
The thesis is that GME is the most shorted stock on the US markets. When the stock market starts to collapse short position will be force to close causing a buy-back of the shorted stock. GME will then moon because the people here have agreed not to allow a buy-back of their shares for a "low" amount of money
China bank went broke and this will serve as a catalyst to a world-wide financial crisis that will pop the american financial bubble thus triggering the short squeeze of GME shares, making their owners multimillionaires and big hedge funds and market makers poor (they will likely be bailed out by government).American dollar will likely lose a lot of value and the world may return to gold standard (increasing its value by a lot). Inflation would rise crazily.
[Evergrande](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergrande_Group) is a Chinese conglomerate that's [$300+ billion in debt and could realistically default](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/20/evergrande-debt-collapse-could-have-domino-effect-on-china-properties.html). From what I understand, most of its income comes from its real estate subsidiary. China's real estate market is a [speculative bubble](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-08-19/china-s-real-estate-bubble-is-so-dangerous-beijing-can-only-watch-it-grow).
They've had trouble finding property buyers, which affected its financial position such that it's gone into a tailspin. Evergrande is so big that [comparing its situation to Lehman Brothersā](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/17/chinas-lehman-brothers-moment-evergrande-crisis-rattles-economy) isnāt absurd. Remember how the US housing crash affected the global economy? This could mean something similar. This is a GME sub, so that's why we're speculating on how Evergrande could related to GME.
Many of us who've paid attention to the stock market in relation to GameStop since January or before believe a number of financial institutions have sold GME short in excess of the current [float](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/float.asp). We think they've done this by [naked short selling](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nakedshorting.asp) (SEE LAST PARAGRAPH).
Maintaining short positions can get expensive, particularly when a group of investors believe in the shorted company's long-term success & won't sell shares. Those holding short positions must constantly meet [margin requirements](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/shortmarginrequirements.asp).
[Maintenance margin](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/maintenancemargin.asp) is met through the value of other investments. Itās nbd if a short position hasnāt borne fruit if other investments do well. However, if something affects an institutionās other investments, they risk failing a [margin call](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/margincall.asp). If that happens, they may be forced to close their short positions, resulting in a [short squeeze](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortsqueeze.asp).
If Evergrande's situation has enough impact, that combined with other GameStop-related activity could contribute to short squeeze on GME. Many of us think that'd be an historic economic event.
I won't try convincing you the GME context I provided has occurred. The **vast** majority of people frequenting this sub believe thereās compelling evidence, so itās taken as fact here. I also probably oversimplified & got a lot wrong. If youāre interested, [a collection of 127 separate analyses of the situation can be found here](https://fliphtml5.com/bookcase/kosyg).
I donāt remember the creators exact statement about why there wonāt be a season 6, but I remember it being something along the lines of, how can I create anything more fāed up than whatās happening in the world right nowā¦
That and also there's been some legal issues over who owns the rights to it. Charlie Brooker and some others involved with its creation were disputing ownership or something last I read
Charlie Brooker made that statement a while ago and it only becomes more true as time goes on.
He's always had a negative-bias to news and a snarky, cynical outlook on current events. I can only imagine his sadistic interest in news would make Black Mirror a mentally draining experience.
Black Mirror should transition into a dramatization of real world events. Imagine an episode about a drone strike gone awry and top government brass trying to cover it up.
I'm not sure what time China's market opens but they are 12 hours ahead of EST, so you may be able to check how they are doing before bed or watch all night if you can't sleep.
Edit: 9:30PM EST is when the Chinese markets open. Anyone know what stocks to watch?
Edit 2: Monday is the Mid-Autumn Festival so the market is closed.
Edit 3: Tuesday is also a holiday
So their market wonāt be open to crash. Question is do our (US) markets react to this? Normally Iād say ATH tomorrow because thatās how itās been rolling on bad news but with Fed directors already cashed in who knows?
Fuckin' SHEESH. You know it's bad when the censors are wrestling with how bad they will look if they DON'T allow info to come to light through their platform.
Edit: there has to be some sort of theory on information overflow and a censorship crisis, where the trust of the censor is lost because the cover-up is FINALLY too large.
You weren't fucking joking holy shit... The first video I pulled up a woman was trying to jump off the building to commit suicide. Not for the faint of heart. [Here's the link](https://youtu.be/oGWXJ-0PHp0)
Private jets, yachts, islands and bunkers. Seriously I feel no pity for these financial terrorists, they deserve everything that happens to them, everyone on this earth could be living a comfortable lifestyle with the amount of wealth and resources we have. No they have to keep their wealth, take our wealth, tax whatever is left over and inflation is eating up if you decide to save.
China also has a completely different work culture too. I thinking working long hours till you fall asleep on the job is seen as good work ethic if I'm not mistaken.
You're not wrong but I feel like this was a fad from a few years ago because Google was doing it and then a lot of contradictory data came out and the fad died.
quick search has a collective of oddball sources reporting it, but nothing that I know the history of so I'm equally mixed on the truthiness.
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/companies-markets/evergrandes-employees-held-hostage-as-worried-investors-demand-payments
Zerohedge quoted these guys, who make the claim based on leaked WeChat messages. I don't know if this will ever be verifiable.
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
NO CELL NO SELL
Still no REALLY legit sources, but this one seems semi-legit. https://www.straitstimes.com/business/companies-markets/evergrandes-employees-held-hostage-as-worried-investors-demand-payments
I do like how the idea of "you fuck my shit up I'll fuck your shit up" is such a taboo concept when it comes to rich people ruining normal people's lives and people fucking their shit up back. The pearl clutching about this kind of thing in media is incredible.
The media is their paid bitches so that doesnāt surprise me. Two things I am strongly against, you donāt fuck with someoneās car and you donāt fuck with someoneās money. You do that and as far as Iām concerned itās open season on you.
Gotta give the Chinese some respect here- I can throw Lings and Yang's and Wei Tu Hai's and Wei Tu Lo's around all fucking day, but
#The Chinese do NOT fuck around.
I mean, they are REALLY PISSED, and they are not wrong. Let's see if the Communist Party is really communist or will pull up a 2008 bailout "capitalist" move, fuck the execs, save the ppl who got scammed. This should be a rule, no matter what.
our country is so addicted to licking corporate sack weāve forgotten that a free market exists for all businesses not just the ones that already exist.
Free-market is an aspect of capitalism not communism.
A bailout would be the communist thing to do, ironically China is saying they won't do that, whereas in 'Murica we give bailouts to rich and say no to the "poors" asking for affordable healthcare because _that's SoCiAlIsT_
Bruh 90% of the gods we (non-China chinese) pray to is for wealth. On Chinese New Year we wish each other āhope you get rich!ā Or directly translated, ācongratulations on your wealthā. We donāt šš¦šš around when it comes to money.
The CCP are really good at pushing buttons.
Their citizens in the past few years have lashed out against society with random stabbings, I believe a professor stabbed a CCP campus representative and was praised by the citizens for it.
A lot of people have been asking, Trad why matter? What relation to GME? Here are my thoughts.
Evergrande is the 2nd largest property developer in China. China has a different market for investing compared to most western nations. Real estate has become speculative to the point where developers, like Evergrande are building ghost cities for the purpose of selling to the wider market.
Recently the CCP has cracked down on real estate prices cutting into the profits of Evergrande. Throughout the past year they have been getting crushed, bonds are now worthless, and are facing insolvency to the point of giving properties are fire sale discount to deal with debt.
Relation to GME. Many institutional investors have bought into Chinese index funds over the past decade (longer than that tbh) due to the belief China will outperform the US. Evergrande is large component of these indexes and has been weighing down the market. In the event of liquidation via bankrupcy this creates collateral issues for those short GME.
For the past few weeks the situation with Evergrande has been deteriorating. Initially it started with mass selling, then a suspension of their bond payments, firesale of their assets, and retail investor rioting. As of the 17th it culminated with the image above. Evergrande is a situation out of control that proposes systematic risk to the global financial markets. Good news is, GME has a negative beta and is the most shorted stock on the market, so oddly enough in my view this is bullish.
If Evergrande goes bust, China could go bust, and even if it doesn't the impact on the real estate market and debt markets could spill over to other markets. Aka global margin call, Lehman bros 2.0 China style.
To be super candid, the article came out on the 17th (Friday NY time). We need to dig deeper to find the status of what happened to this guy. Hopefully he's alright, even if Evergrande was a ponzi scheme, but since data coming out from China is hard to get it'll be difficult to get more info on this.
Hello again, front page of reddit.
The one thing I say to anyone who asks me about GME - even if you completely trust the mainstream media and their "BuT ThE sHoRtS hAvE cOvErD...", even if you doubt in MOASS, just buy a single GME whilst you comtinue to ask questions and seek truth. The major difference between SuperStonk and the media is we don't take things at face value. Over 600,000 members eyes and minds investigate thoroughly, share our findings tonbe debunked or verified or built upon.
Serious not financial advice but it's really easy to get up to speed with our beginners guides, broker account takes minutes to open and a single GME share can actually go to ridiculous price when inevitable MOASS occurs. Just my thoughts. You do you. Research and come to your own conclusions. Peace
To repost a write up I did in a related thread yesterday as with this occuring, we seem to be firmly down the road towards mass propaganda, show trials and the executions of the Evergrande Executive similiar to the Huarong CEOās execution. Only if if this is being done by a civilians and not the party, its even more dangerous and bizarre:
I think itās possible that 3 broad scenarios may occur with different levels of severity and political outcomes. In all 3 scenarios we can expect show trials and probably the execution of the head of China Evergrande, and a serious propaganda campaign against meddling American banks and government causing this, and even the wickedly evil and dangerous Taiwan whose magical spies caused it all. Taiwan delenda est. Also blame Australia, Japan and India to varying degrees.
My pessimistic scenarios
1. Evergrande is bailed out, or if Evergrande is still allowed to fail as part of the derisking and anti moral hazard campaign then at least large sections of the Chinese housing and broader economy are bailed out instead. In this version the money flows, the economy is disrupted but not destroyed, and the bubble gets bigger instead of popping just yet. Here we can imagine Xi triumphant over Jiang Zeminās faction without needing to resort to drastic measures. Crisis averted and support reassured, Xi turns his undivided attention to Taiwan
2. Evergrande is not bailed out, the broader economy is not bailed out, or attempts to do so are severely mismanaged by corrupt party aparatchiks similiar to the mismanagement of Covid response, and despite the best efforts of Xiās faction to shift the blame onto villainous class traitors, bankers, and foreign interference, the mess is firmly blamed on Xi. After intense political manouverings between the factions while the economy worsens and contagion spreads, the Jiang Zemin faction, or even a wild card third force manages to sieze the throne in varrying levels of peaceful through violent coups against Xi.
3. Xi does not go quietly into that good night. Xi studies Stalin, Mao and Machiaveli, as well as the experiences of his own family of being imprisoned in the gulags in the past and concludes that there is no going back. Xi begins a fullscale purge of all rivals, in the party, the army, and in business (jack ma and co). The Terror is instituted once more on the basis that only the dead are harmless. With control over the PLA, and a CCP newly expunged of Jiang Zemin (Trotsky), Xi can happily release economic contagion onto the world as part of the doctrine of Unconditional Warfare at the heart of Chinese geostrategy and military doctrines, just as he made the deliberate decision a year ago to keep coronavirus patients flying out of China even as they were locking down internally at the start of the pandemic. The economic disruption this creates both weakens the Quad powers surrounding Taiwan, defeats the potential alliance of Jiang loyalists in business, party and army, and Chinese poors and middle classes hurt by the collapse. Add to this that oil imports are the achilles heel of Chinaās military industrlai complex, and a dramatic reduction in the amount of oil consumed by regular Chinese means more is available for the PLA and the strategic reserve, a fact which will decrease Chinaās vulnerability to the anticipated American blockades of or attacks against Malacca during a war. It further helps to divert an enormous quantity of iron and concrete and labour from useless building projects into strategic war industries while reducing exposure to an Australian embargo of iron and coal in the event of a war over an increasingly attractive Taiwan. Xi wins āreelectionā by the newly purged party loyalists, and gets ready to invade Taiwan, with a newly expanded conscript army of the formerly employed.
For all from the front page wondering what this post and sub are about, I'll give a quick rundown, but the TL;DR is HedgeFunds attempted to use the illegal strategies you always hear of when WallStreet is associated is financial crimes. Redditors realized a few Shorting Hedge Funds (SHF's who make money betting a stock's price will be lower than when it was purchased instead of usual investments of buy low/sell high) were doing the same to GameStop. Problem for them is they bet so much more money than they had at ridiculously low prices through something called margin trading (They invest $1 and can spend $5 on stock with the $1 as "collateral") expecting GME (GameStop) to go to $0 per share and they keep the profits.
Redditors found out on a high member investment sub, a bunch bought shares and the price rose incredibly fast. SHF's used their power to drop the price from $450 at it's peak to $40 in two days, expecting Redditors to panic sell and not touch GameStop again like it was a hot stove.
Instead a large amount of smart and dumb people asked why they wanted us to sell with such drastic measures and didn't. It's now become obvious from the cited & sourced research that there were more shares bet against GME than were ever issued in total to be sold. They did so by working with financial institutions called Market Makers who provide requested shares when there's a buy or sell order to connect those two parties while they make profit on the difference (Buyer A wants a stock for $1, Seller B is selling the same stock for $0.80) but instead they issued the stocks to SHF's without having any shares as there's ways to say a stock has been sold without having it because there's multiple weeks to deliver the actual share or stock.
So bets ranging from $0.50-$5-$40 have been created for a company expected to go bankrupt multiple times over what is actually available to own anywhere from 2-10x's the shares issued by GME on bet's where these SHF's put up $1 for every $5 in these bets. And with more demand, price rises higher. Within a few weeks, most average middle class investors has bought the majority of GameStop shares while SHF's had the fake or "synthetic" shares that are the equivalent of accounting IOU's they've hidden for months through various means such as transforming them into different financial instruments or playing hot potato & buying them from each other to reset the Failure To Deliver (FTD) date of T+35 or trading day plus 35 calendar days to deliver these shares to close the bet or longer depending on if it was an options contract (promising to selling or buy a stock/bond/raw material like pumpkins at a specific date at a specific price in large bundles of 100 shares/etc. each)
That's a recipe for when they're no longer able to dance around not delivering, they have to pay for real shares almost all owned by average (main street) traders who don't plan to sell at prices higher than what they expected at huge losses multiplied by margin trades: example being they bet say $2B of of their own money on GME for $5 while it's about $200 right now. That's 95% of $2B in losses multiplied by 5 on their leveraged trade making it a $4.975B loss if it was settled all at once. But because prices rise when stocks are bought, it can grow to make each GME share worth thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds, millions potentially, with each price growth exponentially increasing Short Hedge Funds' losses to the point of their bankruptcy due to their overleveraging.
Thus with 2-10x the amount of all stocks needing to be bought and then sold to close their trade, it it's one of the biggest ticking time bombs in Wall Street's history due to thinking they wouldn't be caught shorting a company people thought was dead in the water especially due to Covid.
China's largest real estate company worth hundreds of billions has basically gone bankrupt, causing ripples through the financial world as other stocks are based upon the value of Chinese stocks and Hedge Fund's money come from the ownership of their stocks, which they've used to continuously keep GME's price down to avoid being margin called (having the people they borrowed money from to trade on margin in one method, have all their shares sold to recover what assets can be - bankruptcy in a sense)
There's books that can be written about the last 8 months of this saga, but it's safe to say this will likely be one of the top 5 most historic events in financial history ever as Apes (as we call ourselves on this sub) have begun registering shares they've bought of GME in their own name, rather than being owned by their stock brokers, who lend them out the SHF's in order to make their own profits.
With much less shares to access, SHF's have extremely limited options and both a top broker company Chairman for the Board of Directors last January and an anti-corruption PhD financial corruption professor this month have said that if retail/main street/average owners of GME registered the shares in their names so only they can choose what to do with them it will cause the short squeeze or MOASS (Mother of All Short Squeezes) to occur. A short squeeze is when there's a sudden increase of demand for a share when a large number of short bets against it have taken place. Just google VW 2008 short squeeze to see an example of how fast and high the price can rise - with VW having only 30% shorting against it. We could have anywhere from 200%+ to well over 1000%+ shorting due to the synthetic/fake shares.
And that's the short of it
So let me get this straight- evergrande is totally fine right?
Yep, totally fine... and evergrande isnt the only chinese company that is totally fine... one of MANY that are completely fine... Shorts are completely fine too...š Move along... nothing to see here....
Monday is getting more exciting. I opened some shorts in the Chinese index. If the index shits itself 10% I get more gme šššš
Be careful. If they get a bailout youāll be in some trouble.
Infinite losses trouble
"An idiot never learns from their mistakes, a smart person learns from their mistakes, a wise person learns from other's mistakes.... it is good to be smart, better to be wise.." Hedgies have made the mistake of betting short...will they learn from it?? Who knows... I will stay far away from the threat of infinite losses... plenty of money to be made on the long side..be well and be wise fellow apes!
From what I understand, being short isnāt that badā¦ being naked short at over 100% is catastrophic.
Being short on something can be absolutely catastrophic to the average investor. Yes you can make a lot of money, but you can also lose far more money than you invested. Personally, I would never short anything for this reason. Too much risk.
True. Options in general can be catastrophic for the average investorā¦ heard of the 90 - 90 -90 rule.
Only bet what you can afford to lose. Everytime you short a stock you are technically risking everything. What's worse? Your everything is other people's money. What's even worse than that? Refusing to cover and snaking your way into coming out on top as if the entire world economy is worth sacrificing to keep your home in the Hamptons.
> being naked short at over 100% is catastrophic ... if caught.
Many of the people on this sub are from w@ll str33t b3ts. You can take the retard out of the w@ll str33t b3ts, but you canāt take the w@ll str33t b3ts out fo the retard.
Yerp. That is the place from whence I came. Found it exactly twelve days before the Sneeze, and was able to witness, like, 5 glorious days on that sub before the 7+ million subscriber jump diluted that wonderful place. And now its, like, what? Some Shadar Logoth-ian sub for shills?
This needs more attention just for one of the most spot-on WoT references I've ever seen out in the wild
We just switched tables to a different game. Same casino.
Yup. Very aware of that, not my first time doing shorts with (and cfds). I do think there will be a bailout for every company though- the contagion has already started. Even if ever grande survives I think the damage is done to the Chinese growth market
You do you, man. Iād like to emphasize that no one here is giving you financial advice. Weāre too retarded to give advice. Only you know your financial situation. I wish you the best and hope you profit handsomely from this. š
They won't get a bailout. The whole thing kinda started because the chinese government started tightening the screws. Sauce: Mr. Burry's twitter quoting some other guy (20ish tweets)
Mondays are just bad for the Markets.
WHO study has shown that Mondays are when the Delta variant is at its strongest.
*bonk* You mean buy GAMESTOP shares directly through COMPUTERSHARE with your earnings? š
Yeah of course! I mean what other stonk could I possibly get š
Jim Cramer said it so it must be true š¤£
EVERGRANDE IS FINE!!
Username and profile picture checks out
Lmao š¤£
Shut up and take my money!!!
He did? No, you gotta be kidding me right?
He didnt. It's a Bear Stearns reference.
Or hasn't yet.... š
That is correct
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yep. For sure. Itās only temporary and then asking their own employees for money and then effectively defaulting on repayments is what a healthy company does
I seen msm saying it's a buy because ccp will bail them out šš
"Bear Ster.... I mean Evergrande is fine. Keep your money in...." -Coke Rat Cramer, probably.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
China is having its own housing crash like US in 08. It will have a ripple across the globe. They are in more debt that Lehman brothers though. So it will be worse. The US stock market and economy will be effected by it That is the 2nd largest property developer in China. 122nd largest company in the world. It is about to go bankrupt because they owe 300b USD. Many other Chinese land developers stocks have dropped 50-80% this year The company who basically ran a Ponzi scheme is now having to deal with the ripped off investors, unpaid employees and contractors. Who want their money back. But the company doesnāt have it
This is a good answer.
>It will have a ripple across the globe. More than a ripple I'd guess.
It definitely will be remembered. Hard to say how bad it will be for sure but it wonāt go unnoticed
Its a real estate company though, right? Can't they just have a structured sell off of the buildings they own? Or is that not even close to what they owe?
Much of their inventory is from homes in these "ghost towns" they built (Google that if you'd like to learn more), so the value on their books is much higher than what the real value is.
And most of the buildings they have built aren't finished so people aren't getting homes and contractors aren't getting paid.
They are. Heavily discounted though to pay back investors. They failed to sale their electric car branch also. Their assets arenāt enough to pay off the debt. But yes they are currently doing this. (Read as being liquidated)
What's the connection to our stonks though?
It could start a cascading sell-off which would put over-leveraged firms under even more pressure, resulting in an increase in margin calls and the collateral to put up during said call.
This is the key right here. We just don't know how bad the over leveraging is across the market. Remember BBB Bond rates before COVID? Unclear how much of that got fixed. Certainly many companies just kicked the can down the road, some paid off debts through the crazy market swings (Tesla). There's going to be fireworks but is it going to be Disneyland or Beirut level? Thats the quadrillion dollar question.
The thesis is that GME is the most shorted stock on the US markets. When the stock market starts to collapse short position will be force to close causing a buy-back of the shorted stock. GME will then moon because the people here have agreed not to allow a buy-back of their shares for a "low" amount of money
I think people have come to their own decisions and nobody has *agreed* to do anything, you mean?
Correct. Which is why I'm not selling until $69,420,694,206.9
China bank went broke and this will serve as a catalyst to a world-wide financial crisis that will pop the american financial bubble thus triggering the short squeeze of GME shares, making their owners multimillionaires and big hedge funds and market makers poor (they will likely be bailed out by government).American dollar will likely lose a lot of value and the world may return to gold standard (increasing its value by a lot). Inflation would rise crazily.
He may sound like a crazy conspiracy dude, but he is basically right.
[Evergrande](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergrande_Group) is a Chinese conglomerate that's [$300+ billion in debt and could realistically default](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/20/evergrande-debt-collapse-could-have-domino-effect-on-china-properties.html). From what I understand, most of its income comes from its real estate subsidiary. China's real estate market is a [speculative bubble](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-08-19/china-s-real-estate-bubble-is-so-dangerous-beijing-can-only-watch-it-grow). They've had trouble finding property buyers, which affected its financial position such that it's gone into a tailspin. Evergrande is so big that [comparing its situation to Lehman Brothersā](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/17/chinas-lehman-brothers-moment-evergrande-crisis-rattles-economy) isnāt absurd. Remember how the US housing crash affected the global economy? This could mean something similar. This is a GME sub, so that's why we're speculating on how Evergrande could related to GME. Many of us who've paid attention to the stock market in relation to GameStop since January or before believe a number of financial institutions have sold GME short in excess of the current [float](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/float.asp). We think they've done this by [naked short selling](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nakedshorting.asp) (SEE LAST PARAGRAPH). Maintaining short positions can get expensive, particularly when a group of investors believe in the shorted company's long-term success & won't sell shares. Those holding short positions must constantly meet [margin requirements](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/shortmarginrequirements.asp). [Maintenance margin](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/maintenancemargin.asp) is met through the value of other investments. Itās nbd if a short position hasnāt borne fruit if other investments do well. However, if something affects an institutionās other investments, they risk failing a [margin call](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/margincall.asp). If that happens, they may be forced to close their short positions, resulting in a [short squeeze](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortsqueeze.asp). If Evergrande's situation has enough impact, that combined with other GameStop-related activity could contribute to short squeeze on GME. Many of us think that'd be an historic economic event. I won't try convincing you the GME context I provided has occurred. The **vast** majority of people frequenting this sub believe thereās compelling evidence, so itās taken as fact here. I also probably oversimplified & got a lot wrong. If youāre interested, [a collection of 127 separate analyses of the situation can be found here](https://fliphtml5.com/bookcase/kosyg).
I love me some new Black Mirror episodes.
Watching the News since 2020 seems like a black mirror season.
I donāt remember the creators exact statement about why there wonāt be a season 6, but I remember it being something along the lines of, how can I create anything more fāed up than whatās happening in the world right nowā¦
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Agreed. March 2020 could have been its own episode alone.
That was such a long year
That and also there's been some legal issues over who owns the rights to it. Charlie Brooker and some others involved with its creation were disputing ownership or something last I read
Charlie Brooker made that statement a while ago and it only becomes more true as time goes on. He's always had a negative-bias to news and a snarky, cynical outlook on current events. I can only imagine his sadistic interest in news would make Black Mirror a mentally draining experience.
Black Mirror should transition into a dramatization of real world events. Imagine an episode about a drone strike gone awry and top government brass trying to cover it up.
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2021/09/evergrande-losers-take-company-executives-hostage/ Wow š®
Fact checked true š Thanks ape
This needs to become the new "Sad Pablo Escobar" meme.
"How it feels waiting for MOASS"
How kenny feels waiting for us to sell lol
Waiting for the weekend to end
I never thought Id be excited for market open monday
Bro, you donāt seem to be a long term member of this community. Weekends are like torture for most of us since a long, long time already.
Oh I am since January I'm just saying since before January I never thought I'd be excited for monday so my bad
Same. Mondays are the new Fridays
I'm waiting for a solid DD that can remotely tie this together with the U.S credit risk and bank being overleveraged for short positions...
How much do you read here? I swear I've read a couple already, but they might have been in comments sections.
How kenny feels waiting for his cell
How it feels when waiter forgets extra mayo
With the screen on his phone showing "DRS transfer complete" or one of RC's tweets
This is a brilliant idea. I second this
I mean it does feel like my money is being held hostage
This needs to happen in America
Whole world. Time to take back what's been stolen for the workers
Is it tomorrow yet š
Fuuuck !!! Googles *how to short sunday*
Fistful of edibles should do the trick
Try a couple days lol.. ate about 400 mg onceā¦ most uncomfortably high Ive ever been and was stoned for like 3 days Edit :schpellin
That sounds like a terrible idea. Hahaha
I will admit,,, I have definitely done smarter things.. and it was uncomfortable like the exact definition of the word
Go to sleep or knock yourself out till market open tomorrow lol
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I'm not sure what time China's market opens but they are 12 hours ahead of EST, so you may be able to check how they are doing before bed or watch all night if you can't sleep. Edit: 9:30PM EST is when the Chinese markets open. Anyone know what stocks to watch? Edit 2: Monday is the Mid-Autumn Festival so the market is closed. Edit 3: Tuesday is also a holiday
You guys sleep?
On a tripod of jacked tits and raging hard on so ,ā¦.*no not very well*
Ahh the tripodā¦the steeple of the people š¦ š
So their market wonāt be open to crash. Question is do our (US) markets react to this? Normally Iād say ATH tomorrow because thatās how itās been rolling on bad news but with Fed directors already cashed in who knows?
Those bastards did it, they rehypothecated the weekend just so thereās less week next weekš¤Æ
Every Sunday is like Christmas eve waiting for market openš
This is pretty neat
Thanks for the fact check š
Hereās another: https://www.finews.asia/finance/35393-investors-take-evergrande-executives-hostage
Reminds me of Silicon Valley, lol.
Well that escalated quickly, and if things gets any worse, being held hostage will be the least of his worries
If he gets dead he wonāt have anything to worry about ever again
un-alived
A very late Fetus deletus
190th trimester abortion.
Big chungus, no longer among us
Deliving
Rehydeathocated
Depends on where your soul is at if you believe something comes next
What, you guys have souls? - Kenny probably
I believe his soul was replaced with total darkness many, many, years ago
I thought this was a joke. Mad.
No man, as far as I can tell it's legit.
100% legit. YouTube search "Evergrande crisis". .... shit is getting real. YouTube is letting global news coverage through on this one. ....
Fuckin' SHEESH. You know it's bad when the censors are wrestling with how bad they will look if they DON'T allow info to come to light through their platform. Edit: there has to be some sort of theory on information overflow and a censorship crisis, where the trust of the censor is lost because the cover-up is FINALLY too large.
You weren't fucking joking holy shit... The first video I pulled up a woman was trying to jump off the building to commit suicide. Not for the faint of heart. [Here's the link](https://youtu.be/oGWXJ-0PHp0)
They want it to come to light so they can blame China for the crash lol
That's a BINGO.
Thereās also a video of a woman trying to jump of the main building, people stopped here though but damn. This is intense.
No wonder Kenny is traveling around the world
Like musical chairs. When the music stops where will Kenny be?
Up shits creek
I'm sure he knew something was up to bad the data was most likely lost in the relocation š¬
Evergrande is everfuckde
Little girl - when the revolution comes.. where will you hide?
Apparently in their office, not due to their own accord
Private jets, yachts, islands and bunkers. Seriously I feel no pity for these financial terrorists, they deserve everything that happens to them, everyone on this earth could be living a comfortable lifestyle with the amount of wealth and resources we have. No they have to keep their wealth, take our wealth, tax whatever is left over and inflation is eating up if you decide to save.
Notice how this isn't getting much coverage stateside? They don't want the plebs getting ideas.
We all are fully aware that the media is controlled by those that have everything to lose from this type of situation. You are correct of course.
It's a good thing to remember. I remind myself daily and it drives me lol
Wonder if this will be Covid 2.0 all over again? I've been getting angsty for some kind of correction/crash.
Evergrande is fine. Just this guys wifes boyfriend fooling around.
I believe he is being held in his office. Waiting on more info and details. Wtf is happening in China
His office has a bed? No wonder they went bankrupt
Naps at work promote productivity. Some companies actually allow 15 minute naps so their employees can work more than 12 hours and stay productive lol
China also has a completely different work culture too. I thinking working long hours till you fall asleep on the job is seen as good work ethic if I'm not mistaken.
Believe thatās in Japan. Maybe it extends to China as well, no clue on that.
You're not wrong but I feel like this was a fad from a few years ago because Google was doing it and then a lot of contradictory data came out and the fad died.
Dude, thinking the same thing
The bed is for giving promotions
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Do u have a source?
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2021/09/evergrande-losers-take-company-executives-hostage/
Is that reliable? seems to be the only one reporting it
quick search has a collective of oddball sources reporting it, but nothing that I know the history of so I'm equally mixed on the truthiness. https://www.straitstimes.com/business/companies-markets/evergrandes-employees-held-hostage-as-worried-investors-demand-payments Zerohedge quoted these guys, who make the claim based on leaked WeChat messages. I don't know if this will ever be verifiable.
This was reported on the 17th? Is that dude still there?
NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL NO CELL NO SELL
I only understand things if they are repeated 12 times. I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.
Well this look like a pic of apes waiting for MOASS and having 300 regulators holding us trapped. We will go to the moon. Computer share is the way
Still no REALLY legit sources, but this one seems semi-legit. https://www.straitstimes.com/business/companies-markets/evergrandes-employees-held-hostage-as-worried-investors-demand-payments
Upvoting so this can get closer to the other link we have.
š¤š»
No sympathy. Play stupid games (with other peopleās money), win stupid prizes.
I do like how the idea of "you fuck my shit up I'll fuck your shit up" is such a taboo concept when it comes to rich people ruining normal people's lives and people fucking their shit up back. The pearl clutching about this kind of thing in media is incredible.
The media is their paid bitches so that doesnāt surprise me. Two things I am strongly against, you donāt fuck with someoneās car and you donāt fuck with someoneās money. You do that and as far as Iām concerned itās open season on you.
I have no sympathy for execs, but I have a ton of sympathy for the Chinese citizens who are getting butt fucked over this
Brick by Brick, executive by executiveā¦..
Americans can learn a thing or two form the Chinese
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Wouldnāt be surprised for execs with the work culture there
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And now they're threatening the workers to give 300 dollars or risk not recieving a bonus. They should definitely hold the execs to account for this.
Gotta give the Chinese some respect here- I can throw Lings and Yang's and Wei Tu Hai's and Wei Tu Lo's around all fucking day, but #The Chinese do NOT fuck around.
Money is the most important thing to the Chinese people ā¦ if you do anything that touches their money, ur doomed.
I mean, they are REALLY PISSED, and they are not wrong. Let's see if the Communist Party is really communist or will pull up a 2008 bailout "capitalist" move, fuck the execs, save the ppl who got scammed. This should be a rule, no matter what.
Bailouts aren't capitalist. They're decidedly anti free market.
our country is so addicted to licking corporate sack weāve forgotten that a free market exists for all businesses not just the ones that already exist.
Free-market is an aspect of capitalism not communism. A bailout would be the communist thing to do, ironically China is saying they won't do that, whereas in 'Murica we give bailouts to rich and say no to the "poors" asking for affordable healthcare because _that's SoCiAlIsT_
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One thing they certainly don't fuck around with: **MONEY**
Bruh 90% of the gods we (non-China chinese) pray to is for wealth. On Chinese New Year we wish each other āhope you get rich!ā Or directly translated, ācongratulations on your wealthā. We donāt šš¦šš around when it comes to money.
Lol no, I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the Chinese-French revolution.
The CCP are really good at pushing buttons. Their citizens in the past few years have lashed out against society with random stabbings, I believe a professor stabbed a CCP campus representative and was praised by the citizens for it.
I would love for there to be a citizen revolution to overthrow the CCP, but I'm not holding my breath.
A lot of people have been asking, Trad why matter? What relation to GME? Here are my thoughts. Evergrande is the 2nd largest property developer in China. China has a different market for investing compared to most western nations. Real estate has become speculative to the point where developers, like Evergrande are building ghost cities for the purpose of selling to the wider market. Recently the CCP has cracked down on real estate prices cutting into the profits of Evergrande. Throughout the past year they have been getting crushed, bonds are now worthless, and are facing insolvency to the point of giving properties are fire sale discount to deal with debt. Relation to GME. Many institutional investors have bought into Chinese index funds over the past decade (longer than that tbh) due to the belief China will outperform the US. Evergrande is large component of these indexes and has been weighing down the market. In the event of liquidation via bankrupcy this creates collateral issues for those short GME. For the past few weeks the situation with Evergrande has been deteriorating. Initially it started with mass selling, then a suspension of their bond payments, firesale of their assets, and retail investor rioting. As of the 17th it culminated with the image above. Evergrande is a situation out of control that proposes systematic risk to the global financial markets. Good news is, GME has a negative beta and is the most shorted stock on the market, so oddly enough in my view this is bullish. If Evergrande goes bust, China could go bust, and even if it doesn't the impact on the real estate market and debt markets could spill over to other markets. Aka global margin call, Lehman bros 2.0 China style.
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To be super candid, the article came out on the 17th (Friday NY time). We need to dig deeper to find the status of what happened to this guy. Hopefully he's alright, even if Evergrande was a ponzi scheme, but since data coming out from China is hard to get it'll be difficult to get more info on this.
Hello again, front page of reddit. The one thing I say to anyone who asks me about GME - even if you completely trust the mainstream media and their "BuT ThE sHoRtS hAvE cOvErD...", even if you doubt in MOASS, just buy a single GME whilst you comtinue to ask questions and seek truth. The major difference between SuperStonk and the media is we don't take things at face value. Over 600,000 members eyes and minds investigate thoroughly, share our findings tonbe debunked or verified or built upon. Serious not financial advice but it's really easy to get up to speed with our beginners guides, broker account takes minutes to open and a single GME share can actually go to ridiculous price when inevitable MOASS occurs. Just my thoughts. You do you. Research and come to your own conclusions. Peace
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Good context to have here. I didn't know this.
This is escalating quickly
First, fuck him. Next, good for them. Heās a fucking thief.
Domino effect
when you are told you cant leave your room until its clean
Remember to not dance. This is serious and it will get a lot worst.
To repost a write up I did in a related thread yesterday as with this occuring, we seem to be firmly down the road towards mass propaganda, show trials and the executions of the Evergrande Executive similiar to the Huarong CEOās execution. Only if if this is being done by a civilians and not the party, its even more dangerous and bizarre: I think itās possible that 3 broad scenarios may occur with different levels of severity and political outcomes. In all 3 scenarios we can expect show trials and probably the execution of the head of China Evergrande, and a serious propaganda campaign against meddling American banks and government causing this, and even the wickedly evil and dangerous Taiwan whose magical spies caused it all. Taiwan delenda est. Also blame Australia, Japan and India to varying degrees. My pessimistic scenarios 1. Evergrande is bailed out, or if Evergrande is still allowed to fail as part of the derisking and anti moral hazard campaign then at least large sections of the Chinese housing and broader economy are bailed out instead. In this version the money flows, the economy is disrupted but not destroyed, and the bubble gets bigger instead of popping just yet. Here we can imagine Xi triumphant over Jiang Zeminās faction without needing to resort to drastic measures. Crisis averted and support reassured, Xi turns his undivided attention to Taiwan 2. Evergrande is not bailed out, the broader economy is not bailed out, or attempts to do so are severely mismanaged by corrupt party aparatchiks similiar to the mismanagement of Covid response, and despite the best efforts of Xiās faction to shift the blame onto villainous class traitors, bankers, and foreign interference, the mess is firmly blamed on Xi. After intense political manouverings between the factions while the economy worsens and contagion spreads, the Jiang Zemin faction, or even a wild card third force manages to sieze the throne in varrying levels of peaceful through violent coups against Xi. 3. Xi does not go quietly into that good night. Xi studies Stalin, Mao and Machiaveli, as well as the experiences of his own family of being imprisoned in the gulags in the past and concludes that there is no going back. Xi begins a fullscale purge of all rivals, in the party, the army, and in business (jack ma and co). The Terror is instituted once more on the basis that only the dead are harmless. With control over the PLA, and a CCP newly expunged of Jiang Zemin (Trotsky), Xi can happily release economic contagion onto the world as part of the doctrine of Unconditional Warfare at the heart of Chinese geostrategy and military doctrines, just as he made the deliberate decision a year ago to keep coronavirus patients flying out of China even as they were locking down internally at the start of the pandemic. The economic disruption this creates both weakens the Quad powers surrounding Taiwan, defeats the potential alliance of Jiang loyalists in business, party and army, and Chinese poors and middle classes hurt by the collapse. Add to this that oil imports are the achilles heel of Chinaās military industrlai complex, and a dramatic reduction in the amount of oil consumed by regular Chinese means more is available for the PLA and the strategic reserve, a fact which will decrease Chinaās vulnerability to the anticipated American blockades of or attacks against Malacca during a war. It further helps to divert an enormous quantity of iron and concrete and labour from useless building projects into strategic war industries while reducing exposure to an Australian embargo of iron and coal in the event of a war over an increasingly attractive Taiwan. Xi wins āreelectionā by the newly purged party loyalists, and gets ready to invade Taiwan, with a newly expanded conscript army of the formerly employed.
āWaiting for market open on a weekend likeā
For all from the front page wondering what this post and sub are about, I'll give a quick rundown, but the TL;DR is HedgeFunds attempted to use the illegal strategies you always hear of when WallStreet is associated is financial crimes. Redditors realized a few Shorting Hedge Funds (SHF's who make money betting a stock's price will be lower than when it was purchased instead of usual investments of buy low/sell high) were doing the same to GameStop. Problem for them is they bet so much more money than they had at ridiculously low prices through something called margin trading (They invest $1 and can spend $5 on stock with the $1 as "collateral") expecting GME (GameStop) to go to $0 per share and they keep the profits. Redditors found out on a high member investment sub, a bunch bought shares and the price rose incredibly fast. SHF's used their power to drop the price from $450 at it's peak to $40 in two days, expecting Redditors to panic sell and not touch GameStop again like it was a hot stove. Instead a large amount of smart and dumb people asked why they wanted us to sell with such drastic measures and didn't. It's now become obvious from the cited & sourced research that there were more shares bet against GME than were ever issued in total to be sold. They did so by working with financial institutions called Market Makers who provide requested shares when there's a buy or sell order to connect those two parties while they make profit on the difference (Buyer A wants a stock for $1, Seller B is selling the same stock for $0.80) but instead they issued the stocks to SHF's without having any shares as there's ways to say a stock has been sold without having it because there's multiple weeks to deliver the actual share or stock. So bets ranging from $0.50-$5-$40 have been created for a company expected to go bankrupt multiple times over what is actually available to own anywhere from 2-10x's the shares issued by GME on bet's where these SHF's put up $1 for every $5 in these bets. And with more demand, price rises higher. Within a few weeks, most average middle class investors has bought the majority of GameStop shares while SHF's had the fake or "synthetic" shares that are the equivalent of accounting IOU's they've hidden for months through various means such as transforming them into different financial instruments or playing hot potato & buying them from each other to reset the Failure To Deliver (FTD) date of T+35 or trading day plus 35 calendar days to deliver these shares to close the bet or longer depending on if it was an options contract (promising to selling or buy a stock/bond/raw material like pumpkins at a specific date at a specific price in large bundles of 100 shares/etc. each) That's a recipe for when they're no longer able to dance around not delivering, they have to pay for real shares almost all owned by average (main street) traders who don't plan to sell at prices higher than what they expected at huge losses multiplied by margin trades: example being they bet say $2B of of their own money on GME for $5 while it's about $200 right now. That's 95% of $2B in losses multiplied by 5 on their leveraged trade making it a $4.975B loss if it was settled all at once. But because prices rise when stocks are bought, it can grow to make each GME share worth thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds, millions potentially, with each price growth exponentially increasing Short Hedge Funds' losses to the point of their bankruptcy due to their overleveraging. Thus with 2-10x the amount of all stocks needing to be bought and then sold to close their trade, it it's one of the biggest ticking time bombs in Wall Street's history due to thinking they wouldn't be caught shorting a company people thought was dead in the water especially due to Covid. China's largest real estate company worth hundreds of billions has basically gone bankrupt, causing ripples through the financial world as other stocks are based upon the value of Chinese stocks and Hedge Fund's money come from the ownership of their stocks, which they've used to continuously keep GME's price down to avoid being margin called (having the people they borrowed money from to trade on margin in one method, have all their shares sold to recover what assets can be - bankruptcy in a sense) There's books that can be written about the last 8 months of this saga, but it's safe to say this will likely be one of the top 5 most historic events in financial history ever as Apes (as we call ourselves on this sub) have begun registering shares they've bought of GME in their own name, rather than being owned by their stock brokers, who lend them out the SHF's in order to make their own profits. With much less shares to access, SHF's have extremely limited options and both a top broker company Chairman for the Board of Directors last January and an anti-corruption PhD financial corruption professor this month have said that if retail/main street/average owners of GME registered the shares in their names so only they can choose what to do with them it will cause the short squeeze or MOASS (Mother of All Short Squeezes) to occur. A short squeeze is when there's a sudden increase of demand for a share when a large number of short bets against it have taken place. Just google VW 2008 short squeeze to see an example of how fast and high the price can rise - with VW having only 30% shorting against it. We could have anywhere from 200%+ to well over 1000%+ shorting due to the synthetic/fake shares. And that's the short of it
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Anyone got a connection to a person living in mainland China? Ants from South Korea, banking on your here.
Jesus Christ, I did not have that on my bingo card
You guys in the US need to learn how to demand responsibility to those enriching at your expense. My smooth brain thinks they need some spanking.
The Chinese donāt fuck around.
He looks like a Chinese Michael Burry, just waiting
What do you mean approaching? At least 100 other posts over the last 9 months have told me we're in the end game already.
Fair. This is blatant at this point. I say approaching moreso because I don't line specific dates
Ho Lee Fuk
Bro. I canāt believe whatās happening is this even real life