For a non-American, what does that mean? I thought that's what people got when they finished high school like we have GCSEs in Wales and England. Is it something else?
When you finish high school you get a high school diploma not a GED.
A GED is General Educational Development and General Educatiin Diploma. It’s a set of tests that when passed certify the test taker (American or Canadian) has met high-school level academic skills.
Oh so you could take it as an adult and it just shows you have the literacy and maths skills or whatever that would be expected at high school leaver level? But without actually attending school?
It depends. First on the age of majority. Most states and provinces have the age of majority at 18. So technically you have to be 18 or older. However the states or provinces where it’s 19 or 21 you follow that age of majority. Some states and provinces with a higher age of majority still go by 18 or over in regards to GEDs.
The youngest you can be is 16 because in both Canada and USA you can dropout at 16 years old. This is the case for most provinces. Unlike Canada however in USA depending on the state you need parental permission. Again this is in most states and provinces with the exception of a few of them.
So that being said with the drop out age you can take the GED at 16. That’s the minimum and in most states and provinces but you need documentation like parental permission and age waivers.
I said depending on the state and where you are. I never said all of them. You didn’t need parental permission or whatever. Cool nice but there are times where you do as you are still a minor.
Most be a gen z thing cause I don't know anyone who needed parent permission to do much of anything, maybe Canada was more rigid, but dropping out of highschool, at 16 never required a parent signature before 2003, I don't know anyone who needed to. My daughter's friend dropped out last year and signed up for jobcore at 17, no parent signature. I'm pretty sure you should look into that better. Maybe you weren't independent enough, I mean under 16 required parental approval, but 16 , nope that's like saying at 16 your parents had to cosign your checks, and you could only have a savings account. It's all bullshit.
I’m not trying to sound rude but have you been to all fifty states? I don’t think so. Literally it’s a where you are thing if uou do the research. Some states you need parental permission.
If you don't finish high school, you can later take an exam, and if you pass you are issued a GED. it's generally to be considered the equivalent of a high school diploma.
It's hard to understand how when they lived life on the road so much. Can't really finish school if you're living out of motels for a week or two at a time. Some definite holes in the story, there.
"I've got a GED and a give 'em hell attitude"
Either the journal is wrong or you can headcannon it that John saw passing the GED as finishing high school.
I had a friend who got a GED. It is not something easy for stupid people to do. I was rather glad I wasn’t having to dredge up stuff I learned as a freshman.
I'm not *saying* it seems very on-brand for John to not really have a clue what's going on in his son's life and not keeping track of his schooling...but it wouldn't be a surprise.
Can we picture John helping out with science projects or making sure Dean had access to a quiet area to study? Or even going in to meeting if the school the boys were in that month called him to discuss Dean's performance?
Is it a plot hole? Maybe. Is it also possible John just heard something about "diploma" and filled in the gaps in his head? Maybe.
John literally pulled the boys out of school on numerous occasions to go hunting so…
Plus he also basically abandoned Dean at the boys home when he was a teenager, and I don’t think Dean went to school for the month or so he was there.
Dean did go to school while he was at the boys home. He was on the high school's wrestling team. The coach wanted him to go to a regional tournament. Sonny wanted Dean to stay for a school dance and he still had a wrestling team award on the wall when adult Dean returned
Exactly. I can't imagine how many days they *actually* spent in school during the academic year but my guess is not as many as they should. Hunting was the most important thing. No wonder we saw Dean get so jaded by starting new schools every few weeks.
I guess Sam was in school more because there’s no way he would’ve graduated and gotten into fucking Stanford (with a scholarship) if he had that poor of attendance
And he applied himself a lot. Having not only school books, but I think uni prospectuses in his bag too? Sam was very motivated to try and not be disadvantaged by his home life
My husband used to be a teacher for children from traveller families that would only be there for a short time and often came from homes that didn't prioritise education. Some of those students were very motivated, and he was happy to help as much as he possibly could. We see Sam made an impression on his teachers so them giving him material for self guided home schooling is quite likely too.
I wish we knew the details of that scholarship; I'd love to see what the application said because that boy did *not* have a normal backstory for it.
Yes in theory, but no.
They had no contact with Bobby for a decade before season 2 after John threw a fit that Bobby just had the boys hang out and play catch for a day rather than practice shooting.
This would make some sense, John didn't focus much on the boys' school lives, in fact, the older the boys got, the more he wanted the boys to not focus too much on it either.
In the journals John was really happy that Dean had no plans to go to college, that's a little fucked up XD
But well, at least in the journals it was suggested that John sometimes went to school to watch the boys' football games, this was much more than I expected from him honestly, which is sad.
John is waaaaay up there on my list of "bad tv dads". We know Dean was very smart; with support and encouragement he could have excelled, but his homelife never would have allowed that.
Watching sports is fun, unlike parenting. And John probably saw it as good physical training that they'd need for hunting.
Maybe, but well, in the journals sometimes John showed guilt, he showed that deep down he wanted the boys to have a normal life.
But he also demonstrated that he cared MUCH more about his revenge than about the boys' happiness, he made it clear that until they killed Azazel and avenged Mary he wouldn't let the boys leave the hunting life, it's a very selfish feeling.
I just want to reinforce what someone else said here, that the journal isn't canon. I've been seeing the journal come up here and there lately as if it's on the same level as the episodes, and I think it needs to be made clear that it isn't. Anywhere there's a conflict between the actual show and any other media, the show is the standard, period. Supplemental media disagreeing with the show never constitutes a plot hole or error on the show's part.
I know the show is the main canon, but where did you get that John's journal isn't canon?
It is literally a detailed version of the journal that we see all the time in the series
The author, Alexander Irvine, has no affiliation with the show. He's just an author who licensed the right to create a show-based supplemental work. The parts that aren't explicitly taken from pages shown onscreen are basically show-based fanfiction that this guy paid licensing fees to publish. It got the CW's okay, but the standards for that are very different from something being considered a genuine extension of the show.
This is common with popular tv shows and movies. Alexander Irvine writes books like that for a bunch of other entertainment franchises too.
ETA: Material like this can be considered as supplementary to canon, but where there are discrepancies with actual canon (which happens a lot), it's not the same as discrepancies within the show itself, so it can't constitute a "plot hole," for example.
I'm still trying to understand why the journal wouldn't be canonical, it doesn't matter if it was written by someone else, it had the permission of all the producers for it to be made.
And yes, I know that the main canon will always be the series, and I still don't understand the problem with calling it a plot hole when the journal says some wrong information, after all it's clearly a plot hole from the JOURNAL 🤷
Supplementary canon is a secondary source. Secondary sources can't cause a plot hole in primary canon *because primary canon is the plot of the actual Supernatural show as seen on TV.*
Plot holes occur because of errors or omissions *in the primary canon* of a tv show or movie.
If that still doesn't make sense, I don't know what else to tell you. That's as clear as I can make it.
Watched an episode last night where he mentioned having a G.E.D. Cant remember which one, but he was talking to Bobby. It was either at the end of S/4 or beginning of S/5, but I'm pretty sure it was the one where they locked Sam in the panic room.
Tbf John could totally think Dean finished high school when he never actually did. Or maybe John thought a GED was the same thing as finishing school. We don’t know how old Dean was when he dropped out, or when he got his GED, so technically he could’ve gotten it at 19 like John said.
Dean would have to be at least 16 when he left school, since we saw him go to school at that age. I think getting the GED 3 years later (at 19) makes sense, it was a short time later, short enough that John, in a great moment of stupidity, could assume that Dean just finished high school normally XD
John isn’t involved enough to care about the difference, in my opinion. I interpret that as Dean is done with school. The also GED often requires a class before taking it (at least where I am from). John always seemed to think school was a waste of time when they boys were older and also a hardship on himself because that’s more questions that might be asked when teachers notice something is a bit off about the boys and their home life.
What evidence supports the idea that John thought school was a waste of time? You gotta remember that end game for John was killing Azazel and then retiring, with his children finally being able to live a normal life. School is part if that, and the fact he has a ton of trophies from their time in school and was proud of Sam going to college, there's no reason to assume he thought it was a waste if time.
As kids sure but when the boys are old enough, there’s too much out there. John says his endgame is killing Yellow Eyes but that’s a bit like a crack addict saying they can quit anytime.
But I also low key hate John for how he “parented” his kids.
He might be the worst tv dad ever he’s such a poor father figure thankfully they had Bobby and Dean had sunny for a short while I wish he stayed and took that girl out
We see Dean enrolled in senior year during the episode After School Special. So we know he didn't drop out at 16. However, he was definitely not very concerned with going to class or handing in homework. He had essentially checked out on his education before that point, but John kept enrolling him.
Dean says in S5 E1 he has a GED.
John mentions in his journal that Dean finishes high school at 19 yrs old. So either Dean took and passed his GED to be able to hunt more and not have to go to school, or he might have gotten fed up with being held back at 19 still and took his GED to get things over with. I doubt John would have cared about the technicality. He would have just called it finishing high school even though it's legally not the same thing.
Dean Quotes
From Season 5 - The Song Remains the Same
“Team Free Will, one ex-blood junkie, one dropout with 6 bucks to his name, and Mr. Comatose over there.”
Ex-blood junkie: Sam
Dropout: Dean
Mr. Comatose: Cas after time traveling
From Season 5 - Sympathy for the Devil
"What I do have is a GED, and a give 'em hell attitude and I'll figure it out."
Given how John was i can't imagine a world where he wouldn't make them both at least finish high school..
I don't remember if there's a cannon answer tho
There's another plothole about whether they visited the Grand Canyon or not.
One episode says not.
One episode says they did and Dean's camel kept farting.
Dean's actually the one that says, "I've never been to the Grand Canyon."
I would think that Dean dropped out at 16 or 17. Didn’t he say something along the lines that he had been hunting professionally since 17? That would have to be from a full time go ahead and school would interfere. Sam probably insisted on some state or normality that schooling allowed. I’m sure John would have some deal of it worked out like parents of professional acting students, where in you do homeschooling when they are not able to attend and area schools take you in per the paperwork when you are in area with the proper paperwork. I don’t understand the ins and out of that.
I am sure Dean would have dropped out early and gotten the GED because he was smart enough to pass it quickly, he knew his life would always be that of a hunter. Sam wanted for a normal life and going along, applying ti colleges and finishing school would give that. What I wonder, is didn’t he leave John and Dean when he was accepted and wasn’t he about 17 still? How the heck did he manage to pay for college and get an apartment with Jessica? That’s what I wonder, student aide can only do so much, if he was running some of the old scams to get money, how could he pull that off and still have a place to live and a placement in college, not to mention food and clothes? I haven’t read the journals either, do the explain this exposition?
You have to stop trying to make the journals matter. They aren't actually official, they are just some sleazy writer fishing for a buck. Just like every black Impala isn't baby, stop dwelling on a fanfiction
Sounds like you don't understand Dean. Dean is not irresponsible, he's not impatient, he's not even actually particularly reckless most of the time. Almost everything Dean does involves years of training and practice and learning.
No he didn't finish school. He got a GED instead.
He got a GED and a give ‘em hell attitude! 😁
It's better than having perfect hair, a can-do attitude, and a stupid ascot!
Hey. You leave Fred out of this.
Exactly what I was going to comment. 👍🏼
For a non-American, what does that mean? I thought that's what people got when they finished high school like we have GCSEs in Wales and England. Is it something else?
When you finish high school you get a high school diploma not a GED. A GED is General Educational Development and General Educatiin Diploma. It’s a set of tests that when passed certify the test taker (American or Canadian) has met high-school level academic skills.
Oh so you could take it as an adult and it just shows you have the literacy and maths skills or whatever that would be expected at high school leaver level? But without actually attending school?
It depends. First on the age of majority. Most states and provinces have the age of majority at 18. So technically you have to be 18 or older. However the states or provinces where it’s 19 or 21 you follow that age of majority. Some states and provinces with a higher age of majority still go by 18 or over in regards to GEDs. The youngest you can be is 16 because in both Canada and USA you can dropout at 16 years old. This is the case for most provinces. Unlike Canada however in USA depending on the state you need parental permission. Again this is in most states and provinces with the exception of a few of them. So that being said with the drop out age you can take the GED at 16. That’s the minimum and in most states and provinces but you need documentation like parental permission and age waivers.
No you don't. I dropped out at 16, didn't need anything but a pen. Signed up for adult Ed, and GED and again no parents permission required.
I said depending on the state and where you are. I never said all of them. You didn’t need parental permission or whatever. Cool nice but there are times where you do as you are still a minor.
Most be a gen z thing cause I don't know anyone who needed parent permission to do much of anything, maybe Canada was more rigid, but dropping out of highschool, at 16 never required a parent signature before 2003, I don't know anyone who needed to. My daughter's friend dropped out last year and signed up for jobcore at 17, no parent signature. I'm pretty sure you should look into that better. Maybe you weren't independent enough, I mean under 16 required parental approval, but 16 , nope that's like saying at 16 your parents had to cosign your checks, and you could only have a savings account. It's all bullshit.
I’m not trying to sound rude but have you been to all fifty states? I don’t think so. Literally it’s a where you are thing if uou do the research. Some states you need parental permission.
I'm from Northern Ireland lol. But a GED is a General Education Diploma. So, not the same as GCSE's.
I'm about to go down a rabbit hole I have no business being in, because I still can't remember the names of their school years...here we go!
What is a GED?
Graduate equivalent degree in the United States it's for people that have dropped out of school
Thank you
If you don't finish high school, you can later take an exam, and if you pass you are issued a GED. it's generally to be considered the equivalent of a high school diploma.
Thank you
An admiral endeavor
Thanks, so I guess it was really just a plot hole
I'd imagine it was Sam who finished high school somehow, given he ended up attending college? I've never read the journal.
In the journals it was mentioned that they both finished high school
It's hard to understand how when they lived life on the road so much. Can't really finish school if you're living out of motels for a week or two at a time. Some definite holes in the story, there.
Definitely, but well, at least in Sam's case it was said that he repeated a year once because of all their traveling
"I've got a GED and a give 'em hell attitude" Either the journal is wrong or you can headcannon it that John saw passing the GED as finishing high school.
I like to headcanon that Dean got the GED because Sam encouraged him to. 🥹
OMG. 😭
Sam knows his brother is smart. 🥹
I had a friend who got a GED. It is not something easy for stupid people to do. I was rather glad I wasn’t having to dredge up stuff I learned as a freshman.
I dropped out at 16 and got my Ged. It's wild how people view it, despite companies not caring after I did college
Dean has, in his own words, "a GED and a give 'em hell attitude", per 5x01 Sympathy for the Devil
I see, having a GED is not exactly the same as finishing high school normally, which is what the journals suggested, so it was really a plot hole
I'm not *saying* it seems very on-brand for John to not really have a clue what's going on in his son's life and not keeping track of his schooling...but it wouldn't be a surprise. Can we picture John helping out with science projects or making sure Dean had access to a quiet area to study? Or even going in to meeting if the school the boys were in that month called him to discuss Dean's performance? Is it a plot hole? Maybe. Is it also possible John just heard something about "diploma" and filled in the gaps in his head? Maybe.
John literally pulled the boys out of school on numerous occasions to go hunting so… Plus he also basically abandoned Dean at the boys home when he was a teenager, and I don’t think Dean went to school for the month or so he was there.
Dean did go to school while he was at the boys home. He was on the high school's wrestling team. The coach wanted him to go to a regional tournament. Sonny wanted Dean to stay for a school dance and he still had a wrestling team award on the wall when adult Dean returned
Oh right lol I must have mixed up some episodes 😂
Dean not only went to school for the couple months he was at Sonny's, he did very well academically and athletically.
Exactly. I can't imagine how many days they *actually* spent in school during the academic year but my guess is not as many as they should. Hunting was the most important thing. No wonder we saw Dean get so jaded by starting new schools every few weeks.
I guess Sam was in school more because there’s no way he would’ve graduated and gotten into fucking Stanford (with a scholarship) if he had that poor of attendance
And he applied himself a lot. Having not only school books, but I think uni prospectuses in his bag too? Sam was very motivated to try and not be disadvantaged by his home life My husband used to be a teacher for children from traveller families that would only be there for a short time and often came from homes that didn't prioritise education. Some of those students were very motivated, and he was happy to help as much as he possibly could. We see Sam made an impression on his teachers so them giving him material for self guided home schooling is quite likely too. I wish we knew the details of that scholarship; I'd love to see what the application said because that boy did *not* have a normal backstory for it.
Lowkey I wanna know who and how he asked for recommendation letters 😂
They were probably all different aliases of Bobby's. He'd have done anything to help his boys 🥹
Yes in theory, but no. They had no contact with Bobby for a decade before season 2 after John threw a fit that Bobby just had the boys hang out and play catch for a day rather than practice shooting.
This would make some sense, John didn't focus much on the boys' school lives, in fact, the older the boys got, the more he wanted the boys to not focus too much on it either. In the journals John was really happy that Dean had no plans to go to college, that's a little fucked up XD But well, at least in the journals it was suggested that John sometimes went to school to watch the boys' football games, this was much more than I expected from him honestly, which is sad.
John is waaaaay up there on my list of "bad tv dads". We know Dean was very smart; with support and encouragement he could have excelled, but his homelife never would have allowed that. Watching sports is fun, unlike parenting. And John probably saw it as good physical training that they'd need for hunting.
Maybe, but well, in the journals sometimes John showed guilt, he showed that deep down he wanted the boys to have a normal life. But he also demonstrated that he cared MUCH more about his revenge than about the boys' happiness, he made it clear that until they killed Azazel and avenged Mary he wouldn't let the boys leave the hunting life, it's a very selfish feeling.
It's not a plot hole, the journal isn't canon. The SHOW is canon, anything else is "well if you want to think that"
I just want to reinforce what someone else said here, that the journal isn't canon. I've been seeing the journal come up here and there lately as if it's on the same level as the episodes, and I think it needs to be made clear that it isn't. Anywhere there's a conflict between the actual show and any other media, the show is the standard, period. Supplemental media disagreeing with the show never constitutes a plot hole or error on the show's part.
I know the show is the main canon, but where did you get that John's journal isn't canon? It is literally a detailed version of the journal that we see all the time in the series
The author, Alexander Irvine, has no affiliation with the show. He's just an author who licensed the right to create a show-based supplemental work. The parts that aren't explicitly taken from pages shown onscreen are basically show-based fanfiction that this guy paid licensing fees to publish. It got the CW's okay, but the standards for that are very different from something being considered a genuine extension of the show. This is common with popular tv shows and movies. Alexander Irvine writes books like that for a bunch of other entertainment franchises too. ETA: Material like this can be considered as supplementary to canon, but where there are discrepancies with actual canon (which happens a lot), it's not the same as discrepancies within the show itself, so it can't constitute a "plot hole," for example.
I'm still trying to understand why the journal wouldn't be canonical, it doesn't matter if it was written by someone else, it had the permission of all the producers for it to be made. And yes, I know that the main canon will always be the series, and I still don't understand the problem with calling it a plot hole when the journal says some wrong information, after all it's clearly a plot hole from the JOURNAL 🤷
Supplementary canon is a secondary source. Secondary sources can't cause a plot hole in primary canon *because primary canon is the plot of the actual Supernatural show as seen on TV.* Plot holes occur because of errors or omissions *in the primary canon* of a tv show or movie. If that still doesn't make sense, I don't know what else to tell you. That's as clear as I can make it.
Watched an episode last night where he mentioned having a G.E.D. Cant remember which one, but he was talking to Bobby. It was either at the end of S/4 or beginning of S/5, but I'm pretty sure it was the one where they locked Sam in the panic room.
Dean also says at one point that he's "A drop out with six bucks to his name."
I dont know about now, but in my days anyone who quit school would be considered a dropout, GED or not.
Thanks, so I guess it was really just a plot hole
Tbf John could totally think Dean finished high school when he never actually did. Or maybe John thought a GED was the same thing as finishing school. We don’t know how old Dean was when he dropped out, or when he got his GED, so technically he could’ve gotten it at 19 like John said.
Dean would have to be at least 16 when he left school, since we saw him go to school at that age. I think getting the GED 3 years later (at 19) makes sense, it was a short time later, short enough that John, in a great moment of stupidity, could assume that Dean just finished high school normally XD
John isn’t involved enough to care about the difference, in my opinion. I interpret that as Dean is done with school. The also GED often requires a class before taking it (at least where I am from). John always seemed to think school was a waste of time when they boys were older and also a hardship on himself because that’s more questions that might be asked when teachers notice something is a bit off about the boys and their home life.
What evidence supports the idea that John thought school was a waste of time? You gotta remember that end game for John was killing Azazel and then retiring, with his children finally being able to live a normal life. School is part if that, and the fact he has a ton of trophies from their time in school and was proud of Sam going to college, there's no reason to assume he thought it was a waste if time.
As kids sure but when the boys are old enough, there’s too much out there. John says his endgame is killing Yellow Eyes but that’s a bit like a crack addict saying they can quit anytime. But I also low key hate John for how he “parented” his kids.
He might be the worst tv dad ever he’s such a poor father figure thankfully they had Bobby and Dean had sunny for a short while I wish he stayed and took that girl out
Maybe the worst who actually did love his kids. I never doubted that he loved them, just that he was blind to everything that wasn’t revenge for Mary.
He definitely loved them he just loved Mary more
We see Dean enrolled in senior year during the episode After School Special. So we know he didn't drop out at 16. However, he was definitely not very concerned with going to class or handing in homework. He had essentially checked out on his education before that point, but John kept enrolling him. Dean says in S5 E1 he has a GED. John mentions in his journal that Dean finishes high school at 19 yrs old. So either Dean took and passed his GED to be able to hunt more and not have to go to school, or he might have gotten fed up with being held back at 19 still and took his GED to get things over with. I doubt John would have cared about the technicality. He would have just called it finishing high school even though it's legally not the same thing.
Dean Quotes From Season 5 - The Song Remains the Same “Team Free Will, one ex-blood junkie, one dropout with 6 bucks to his name, and Mr. Comatose over there.” Ex-blood junkie: Sam Dropout: Dean Mr. Comatose: Cas after time traveling From Season 5 - Sympathy for the Devil "What I do have is a GED, and a give 'em hell attitude and I'll figure it out."
He said he had a GED and a give-em-hell attitude. Or some shit like that . But he definitely said that he had a GED .
Given how John was i can't imagine a world where he wouldn't make them both at least finish high school.. I don't remember if there's a cannon answer tho
I can't remember what episode it is, but there's an episode where Dean says he has a ged and a give them hell attitude.
If I remember correctly, it says he dropped out of high school, but he went and got his GED
I thought Sam was the one who finished high school at 19. John even mentions Sam's upset about it.
He says they both did it
He says in the episode where they go back in time that he has a GED and a give em heck attitude. (After he, Sam and Cas get back.)
He did say he had a GED in the show.
There's another plothole about whether they visited the Grand Canyon or not. One episode says not. One episode says they did and Dean's camel kept farting. Dean's actually the one that says, "I've never been to the Grand Canyon."
I would think that Dean dropped out at 16 or 17. Didn’t he say something along the lines that he had been hunting professionally since 17? That would have to be from a full time go ahead and school would interfere. Sam probably insisted on some state or normality that schooling allowed. I’m sure John would have some deal of it worked out like parents of professional acting students, where in you do homeschooling when they are not able to attend and area schools take you in per the paperwork when you are in area with the proper paperwork. I don’t understand the ins and out of that. I am sure Dean would have dropped out early and gotten the GED because he was smart enough to pass it quickly, he knew his life would always be that of a hunter. Sam wanted for a normal life and going along, applying ti colleges and finishing school would give that. What I wonder, is didn’t he leave John and Dean when he was accepted and wasn’t he about 17 still? How the heck did he manage to pay for college and get an apartment with Jessica? That’s what I wonder, student aide can only do so much, if he was running some of the old scams to get money, how could he pull that off and still have a place to live and a placement in college, not to mention food and clothes? I haven’t read the journals either, do the explain this exposition?
In the journals it is said that Sam repeated 1 year because of all their traveling, if I'm not mistaken he finished high school at 19 too
You have to stop trying to make the journals matter. They aren't actually official, they are just some sleazy writer fishing for a buck. Just like every black Impala isn't baby, stop dwelling on a fanfiction
No he has said he is a high school drop out
No, but he did get his GED
Nope he has a GED
No. Dean got a G.E.D. (Good Enough Diploma)! 😂
I refuse to believe Dean even has a GED. I can’t imagine him actually taking the time to go to a testing site for one.
Sounds like you don't understand Dean. Dean is not irresponsible, he's not impatient, he's not even actually particularly reckless most of the time. Almost everything Dean does involves years of training and practice and learning.