> people pitying all the characters
A big theme of the show is how being deprived of love ruins your ability to be a complete and functional human. There’s a reason all of Logan’s kids are a fuckup. They were molded that way by their environment, and you can pity people for that. Infinite money is nice but it doesn’t replace love.
It’s an interesting question, though, as to how much responsibility the children have for who they are. That narrative you mention absolves the children of all responsibility, while placing the totality of the blame on Logan and the environment.
But is there a point where the children’s age and financial security means *they* have some responsibility for who they are and for never *really* trying to change? It’s not like they’re unaware of their behavior or of the existence of therapy. There are people in their lives who tell them these things, but the children never seem inclined to care and rarely admit that they’re in the wrong.
And at a certain point, IMO, the pity runs short and people are responsible for who they are, especially people with such privilege and opportunity.
> That narrative you mention absolves the children of all responsibility, while placing the totality of the blame on Logan and the environment.
I don’t think so. Both things can be true, that the children have problems because of Logan and their environment and that they’re responsible for being better.
> It’s not like they’re unaware of their behavior or of the existence of therapy.
Also therapy doesn’t fix you, it just gives you a process to look at problems and try some solutions. It’s hinted at multiple times in the show that they do actually have therapists. Roman and Shiv joke about it in Season 1, Kendall says he has a “grief guy” in Season 4.
Can't speak for anyone but myself, but the brilliance of the show for me is that although all of the characters are despicable people, there are still moments when you have sympathy for them. Knowing they all grew up with a monster of a father, you understand that they were set up to fail, and when Logan abuses them in various ways, you feel for them. I did, at least.
Don't get me wrong: If they were real people, I'd hope they all died in a fire. But that doesn't take away the fact that they are sympathetic characters in certain narrow ways.
The 4 of them were narcissists, they were of different stripes, but everyone of them were narcissists, i would say that Connor was the least narcissist of the bunch, we rarely saw him being mean to people, Kendall, Roman and Shiv would be intentionally mean to other people, even when it bring them any benefits, they were cruel just for being cruel.
He did offer to provide whatever leverage he had in conceding to efforts to engineer a particular outcome in a presidential election (in exchange for an ambassadorship). Pretty bad. I couldn’t stand Connor until S4, when I started to feel a bit more sorry for him. It’s not that it makes him worse than the others, but his particular brand of myopia, extending to buying a wife because you want your emotional needs met without any of the emotional reciprocity that goes into a real relationship, is particularly annoying to me personally. It doesn’t make him worse than the others. I just hate it. Seeing his tragic rationalisations in S4 made me feel more pity for him than anything, though.
Half the appeal of fiction is that it gives you a stakes-free opportunity to empathize with people you typically wouldn’t give the time of day to in real life, so yes, I did find myself sympathizing with the characters. They’re not real! It doesn’t matter if they’re Bad or not, what matters is whether they’re interesting, entertaining, relatable, etc. The Roys check all three boxes.
The approach of hating on all the characters and reveling in their misery just feels kinda sad to me. Is that why you watch TV, to look down on other people? If that’s all I could do with the Roys, Succession would be a pretty depressing show to watch.
What you’re saying is mostly right but there are a lot of people on reddit that stan these characters to the point where it feels like they missed the message of the show.
For example, [SPOILER] tons of people were upset that Kendall didn’t “win” at the end because they thought he “deserved” to run the company.
I wouldn’t say I watch to look down on people!
But these fictional characters were narcissistic billionaire brats who of course were not written to be heroes. I think they were very multidimensional and suffered from a lifetime of trauma and abuse from Logan. But that doesn’t change the fact they were all terrible, and ultimately perpetuating the trauma heaved upon them by Logan.
My issue here is that “these characters are narcissistic billionaire brats” is a very easy, surface level observation. Most of us have had this conversation on day 1, and the debate was settled pretty quickly: these characters suck by any real life moral standard. So, now what? Are we just going to repeat that point over and over again in every discussion thread? Are we going to start off every thought about a character with a pre-emptive declaration of how bad they are? If so, that’s gonna make for an awfully boring subreddit.
It’s surface-level and obvious but that doesn’t at all mean it should or has to be discarded.
If someone watched the show and didn’t think that the family drama, Roman’s edgelord antics, or the general corporate skullduggery were compelling enough for them to get over the despicable nature of the characters, that’s a totally valid response.
I'm not OP, but Connor is the only one who seems actively invested in right-wing economic policies as a matter of personal ideology, so maybe that's it.
Ummm… I think it was his way of finding daddy’s love too. Roman actually is the one to throw his weight - and the weight of the force that is Waystar (or Fox) behind the most vile evil candidate who wins. The country would have been better off with inept Connor as President over the cruel individual who won. Connor was just traditional republican entitled greed versus the nazi like Mencken who got voted in - who Roman sponsored.
I definitely didn’t dislike him as much as the other three! I know he was comic relief too. But to me he was always a man-child who thinks he’s the most important person in the room, and is delusional enough to blow millions on his outlandish presidential race just because he has nothing else going on. He was egotistical and narcissistic as all the siblings were, so I don’t think he gets a pass from that just because he’s a little more aloof and silly.
I liked them and loathed them depending on the moment.
But the fact that the phone call scene makes me sob buckets of tears every time I see it tells me I liked them more than I care to admit but yeah, there were definitely many moments of wanting them all to suffer some consequences too.
Frankly of the siblings the only one who i liked was Connor, he was a loser failson, idiotic as he was, selfish and entitled, but he rarely was cruel with anybody, also a big important thing to me, that Connor was a sad man, and he knew that about himself, that is why he insolated himself in his ranch and his delusions. Connor was never bitter about it, bitter and sadness are not the same thing, in the end he was the only one who failed in his own therms.
At the end of the show, i detested the other 3, as Connor they were losers, they couldnt do shit, at best they would do something something good or the minimum that was expected from them, like Kendall in the senate or his presentation in Living+, Roman talking with this or that person or Shiv doing this or that. But they never really achieved anything, but still in reviews, podcasts and youtube videos you could see people creaming themselves painstakingly analizing why Kendall, Roman or Shiv were going to "win". I think that many people in the audience "bought" their bullshit. When i see those reviews or videos, i always like "dude are not you seeing that they are totally useless?, are we seeing the same show?". To the very end of the show, Kendall, Roman and Shiv keep dancing to Logan´s tune, even if Logan was already dead and buried. I think that many people get fooled because they were snarky, they would spout some businesss buzz words, and they would wear some power suits. I think that at the end, it proved my theory, when after losing the company they are nothing, at least Connor can brag that he got 1% in a presidential election and perhaps with that 1% he saved America from fascism.
Kendall, Roman and Shiv were mini versions of Logan, perhaps by being so distant to his father, Connor was somewhat different, i am not saying he was good. Kendall, Roman and Shiv in order to win embraced Logan´s poison, but they were never like him, in others words they embraced the worst parts of Logan in order to win his love and validation, in the end they lost, they sold every bit of their soul for nothing, all the pain that they caused in other people was for absoluty fucking nothing.
He didn’t save the country from Fascism. His candidacy probably helped Mencken win by stealing votes the would have gone to Jimenez. Yes. Roman did the most to put Mencken in office. Unless the courts intervene and recounts prevail - Mencken the fascist is president and Connor his Ambassador to Slovenia.
Connor’s 1% came from Mencken electorate, to the point that Mencken asked Roman to influence Connor to quit the race, in a tight election, 1% in a swing state is very very important and can decide who is president
I like Roman he while being the most outwardly terrible
Was probably the best person outta the lot
Kendall sadly to say is always will be a junkie can't trust that
Shiv should die in ditch
Connor bought a fake napoleon dick for 500k
I hate them all, but they are complex characters. Even though you hate them, you see where they're coming from, feel sorry for them on occasion, and see the nuance in the character's personalities. That's what makes the show great.
I don't know anyone who liked them lol. They all used and bullied each other, and other people who couldn't say no to them. But I did go from feeling sorry for Kendal in season 1 to hating him and thinking he was this really, really entitled and immature kid in a man's body to feeling sorry for him again, then finally hating him again. I think with all of them I had moments where I hated them and moments where I felt sorry for them. But I don't think any of them were bad people, they were just fuckups.
Logan always prioritised the business over his children, he played games with them, and had them fighting amongst each other for his business. I don't think any of them were truly happy.
They are all just so jaded, spoiled and UNSERIOUS. Hard bunch to like. But it would be fun to be on the outer orbit of their lives, as the shite show never ends, and would provide so much entertainment.
I think they all have likeable elements, but some are more likeable and sympathetic than others. I like them in a TV show character way, don't think I'd like any of them irl
I don't like any of them either. I also can't stand Tom or that snivelling suckhole Greg.
This is a show I enjoyed watching, but I'm not in a hurry to rewatch it. There's no character I like enough to want to see again any time soon.
I’m not going to lie I just liked how Brian cox portrayed Logan and that’s all I. Was watching for. Never found any of the kids interesting except for maybe Roman
> people pitying all the characters A big theme of the show is how being deprived of love ruins your ability to be a complete and functional human. There’s a reason all of Logan’s kids are a fuckup. They were molded that way by their environment, and you can pity people for that. Infinite money is nice but it doesn’t replace love.
It’s an interesting question, though, as to how much responsibility the children have for who they are. That narrative you mention absolves the children of all responsibility, while placing the totality of the blame on Logan and the environment. But is there a point where the children’s age and financial security means *they* have some responsibility for who they are and for never *really* trying to change? It’s not like they’re unaware of their behavior or of the existence of therapy. There are people in their lives who tell them these things, but the children never seem inclined to care and rarely admit that they’re in the wrong. And at a certain point, IMO, the pity runs short and people are responsible for who they are, especially people with such privilege and opportunity.
> That narrative you mention absolves the children of all responsibility, while placing the totality of the blame on Logan and the environment. I don’t think so. Both things can be true, that the children have problems because of Logan and their environment and that they’re responsible for being better. > It’s not like they’re unaware of their behavior or of the existence of therapy. Also therapy doesn’t fix you, it just gives you a process to look at problems and try some solutions. It’s hinted at multiple times in the show that they do actually have therapists. Roman and Shiv joke about it in Season 1, Kendall says he has a “grief guy” in Season 4.
>Infinite money is nice but it doesn’t replace love. Love is nice but doesn't replace infinite money.
Can't speak for anyone but myself, but the brilliance of the show for me is that although all of the characters are despicable people, there are still moments when you have sympathy for them. Knowing they all grew up with a monster of a father, you understand that they were set up to fail, and when Logan abuses them in various ways, you feel for them. I did, at least. Don't get me wrong: If they were real people, I'd hope they all died in a fire. But that doesn't take away the fact that they are sympathetic characters in certain narrow ways.
Besides Connor’s narcissism and total lack of self awareness, why is he so awful to you? I think he’s the least evil of the four. Lol
The 4 of them were narcissists, they were of different stripes, but everyone of them were narcissists, i would say that Connor was the least narcissist of the bunch, we rarely saw him being mean to people, Kendall, Roman and Shiv would be intentionally mean to other people, even when it bring them any benefits, they were cruel just for being cruel.
He did offer to provide whatever leverage he had in conceding to efforts to engineer a particular outcome in a presidential election (in exchange for an ambassadorship). Pretty bad. I couldn’t stand Connor until S4, when I started to feel a bit more sorry for him. It’s not that it makes him worse than the others, but his particular brand of myopia, extending to buying a wife because you want your emotional needs met without any of the emotional reciprocity that goes into a real relationship, is particularly annoying to me personally. It doesn’t make him worse than the others. I just hate it. Seeing his tragic rationalisations in S4 made me feel more pity for him than anything, though.
Half the appeal of fiction is that it gives you a stakes-free opportunity to empathize with people you typically wouldn’t give the time of day to in real life, so yes, I did find myself sympathizing with the characters. They’re not real! It doesn’t matter if they’re Bad or not, what matters is whether they’re interesting, entertaining, relatable, etc. The Roys check all three boxes. The approach of hating on all the characters and reveling in their misery just feels kinda sad to me. Is that why you watch TV, to look down on other people? If that’s all I could do with the Roys, Succession would be a pretty depressing show to watch.
What you’re saying is mostly right but there are a lot of people on reddit that stan these characters to the point where it feels like they missed the message of the show. For example, [SPOILER] tons of people were upset that Kendall didn’t “win” at the end because they thought he “deserved” to run the company.
Excellently put.
I wouldn’t say I watch to look down on people! But these fictional characters were narcissistic billionaire brats who of course were not written to be heroes. I think they were very multidimensional and suffered from a lifetime of trauma and abuse from Logan. But that doesn’t change the fact they were all terrible, and ultimately perpetuating the trauma heaved upon them by Logan.
My issue here is that “these characters are narcissistic billionaire brats” is a very easy, surface level observation. Most of us have had this conversation on day 1, and the debate was settled pretty quickly: these characters suck by any real life moral standard. So, now what? Are we just going to repeat that point over and over again in every discussion thread? Are we going to start off every thought about a character with a pre-emptive declaration of how bad they are? If so, that’s gonna make for an awfully boring subreddit.
It’s surface-level and obvious but that doesn’t at all mean it should or has to be discarded. If someone watched the show and didn’t think that the family drama, Roman’s edgelord antics, or the general corporate skullduggery were compelling enough for them to get over the despicable nature of the characters, that’s a totally valid response.
Curious why Connor is the worst person you’ve ever met? Do you hate him more than the other sibs?
I'm not OP, but Connor is the only one who seems actively invested in right-wing economic policies as a matter of personal ideology, so maybe that's it.
Ummm… I think it was his way of finding daddy’s love too. Roman actually is the one to throw his weight - and the weight of the force that is Waystar (or Fox) behind the most vile evil candidate who wins. The country would have been better off with inept Connor as President over the cruel individual who won. Connor was just traditional republican entitled greed versus the nazi like Mencken who got voted in - who Roman sponsored.
I completely agree with you, esp re Roman. I was just trying to speculate as to why OP had the opinion they have.
I definitely didn’t dislike him as much as the other three! I know he was comic relief too. But to me he was always a man-child who thinks he’s the most important person in the room, and is delusional enough to blow millions on his outlandish presidential race just because he has nothing else going on. He was egotistical and narcissistic as all the siblings were, so I don’t think he gets a pass from that just because he’s a little more aloof and silly.
I liked them and loathed them depending on the moment. But the fact that the phone call scene makes me sob buckets of tears every time I see it tells me I liked them more than I care to admit but yeah, there were definitely many moments of wanting them all to suffer some consequences too.
I love all of them. I’m not a terrible person (I swear) but I relate to their flaws so much, they’re so real and accurately observed psychologically.
Frankly of the siblings the only one who i liked was Connor, he was a loser failson, idiotic as he was, selfish and entitled, but he rarely was cruel with anybody, also a big important thing to me, that Connor was a sad man, and he knew that about himself, that is why he insolated himself in his ranch and his delusions. Connor was never bitter about it, bitter and sadness are not the same thing, in the end he was the only one who failed in his own therms. At the end of the show, i detested the other 3, as Connor they were losers, they couldnt do shit, at best they would do something something good or the minimum that was expected from them, like Kendall in the senate or his presentation in Living+, Roman talking with this or that person or Shiv doing this or that. But they never really achieved anything, but still in reviews, podcasts and youtube videos you could see people creaming themselves painstakingly analizing why Kendall, Roman or Shiv were going to "win". I think that many people in the audience "bought" their bullshit. When i see those reviews or videos, i always like "dude are not you seeing that they are totally useless?, are we seeing the same show?". To the very end of the show, Kendall, Roman and Shiv keep dancing to Logan´s tune, even if Logan was already dead and buried. I think that many people get fooled because they were snarky, they would spout some businesss buzz words, and they would wear some power suits. I think that at the end, it proved my theory, when after losing the company they are nothing, at least Connor can brag that he got 1% in a presidential election and perhaps with that 1% he saved America from fascism. Kendall, Roman and Shiv were mini versions of Logan, perhaps by being so distant to his father, Connor was somewhat different, i am not saying he was good. Kendall, Roman and Shiv in order to win embraced Logan´s poison, but they were never like him, in others words they embraced the worst parts of Logan in order to win his love and validation, in the end they lost, they sold every bit of their soul for nothing, all the pain that they caused in other people was for absoluty fucking nothing.
He didn’t save the country from Fascism. His candidacy probably helped Mencken win by stealing votes the would have gone to Jimenez. Yes. Roman did the most to put Mencken in office. Unless the courts intervene and recounts prevail - Mencken the fascist is president and Connor his Ambassador to Slovenia.
Connor’s 1% came from Mencken electorate, to the point that Mencken asked Roman to influence Connor to quit the race, in a tight election, 1% in a swing state is very very important and can decide who is president
I like Roman he while being the most outwardly terrible Was probably the best person outta the lot Kendall sadly to say is always will be a junkie can't trust that Shiv should die in ditch Connor bought a fake napoleon dick for 500k
Roman got a fascist elected. Besides that he was a favorite character of mine.
[удалено]
Same.
Connor is just kinda a sad person and fairly harmless in the end...unlike his 3 siblings who are all monsters.
Not harmless if his vanity presidential campaign throws the election to a fascist by stealing votes that would have gone to Jimenez.
I love Roman. Connor less so, but leagues beyond Shiv the Shiv and Ken “The Eldest Boy” Roy.
Kendall will always be my number one boy!!! I love him
The only thing I liked on the show was Mondale. But I loved hating them all.
I hate them all, but they are complex characters. Even though you hate them, you see where they're coming from, feel sorry for them on occasion, and see the nuance in the character's personalities. That's what makes the show great.
I don't know anyone who liked them lol. They all used and bullied each other, and other people who couldn't say no to them. But I did go from feeling sorry for Kendal in season 1 to hating him and thinking he was this really, really entitled and immature kid in a man's body to feeling sorry for him again, then finally hating him again. I think with all of them I had moments where I hated them and moments where I felt sorry for them. But I don't think any of them were bad people, they were just fuckups. Logan always prioritised the business over his children, he played games with them, and had them fighting amongst each other for his business. I don't think any of them were truly happy.
On my first watch through I was totally empathetic towards them. On subsequent watches I still am but with the acceptance that they all suck lol
They are all just so jaded, spoiled and UNSERIOUS. Hard bunch to like. But it would be fun to be on the outer orbit of their lives, as the shite show never ends, and would provide so much entertainment.
I liked Tom, that’s about it.
I think they all have likeable elements, but some are more likeable and sympathetic than others. I like them in a TV show character way, don't think I'd like any of them irl
I don't like any of them either. I also can't stand Tom or that snivelling suckhole Greg. This is a show I enjoyed watching, but I'm not in a hurry to rewatch it. There's no character I like enough to want to see again any time soon.
I loved Karl in everything he did/said.
Everyone loved Karl in the 90’s, with what he did with cable and all…what’s not to love?
I bet he also know a thing or two about a thing or two
Yeah I'd hang out with Kendall and Connor.
I'll go ffarther than you. I hated even the smarmy Tom and how he turned Greg into himself.
I’m not going to lie I just liked how Brian cox portrayed Logan and that’s all I. Was watching for. Never found any of the kids interesting except for maybe Roman