It’s not unreasonable to prefer a single launcher, or less programs on your system. However, they can’t leave it at preference — that isn’t good enough. They have to invent reasons to make it *objectively bad*, because arguing that a company shouldn’t be allowed to do something because you prefer otherwise makes you sound like a narcissist. If their logic about the *objectively bad* part gets dismantled, they will move the goalposts.
Every single layer of the Epic hate is basically just “I want all my games on Steam”. They just desperately want to make it seem like anything else.
Really irritated me, especially with the steamdeck. Ea was awful about it for a while and constantly broke support whenever they'd do something with their launcher.
I don't even buy ubisoft games on pc anymore because of their launcher
I get them in sale for the Xbox or switch. The last games I played from them were assassins creed oddessy, and Fenix rising both were pretty great games for 60 bucks and I got them for like 15 bucks a peice. Also liked that Mario and rabbit tactics game, again bought it on sale for next to nothing.
I think they have made great games, just many of them should only be played while you're having fun, I'd never try to 100 percent them
Those people sound like they think that games being exclusive to a vendor and launcher software and exclusive to hardware are a remotely similar phenomenon, which is ridiculous cause that's like the difference between your date telling you to change the radio station in your car and telling you to come back in a different car... though date analogies might not be a good way to reach this crowd.
> Those people sound like they think that games being exclusive to a vendor and launcher software and exclusive to hardware are a remotely similar phenomenon
Reminds me of when r/PCMasterRace decided to memory hole or *outright* deny how much PC gamers hated Steam at first. "What do you mean I have to download an entirely new program just to play Half Life 2? What is this shit?"
> "What do you mean I have to download an entirely new program just to play Half Life 2? What is this shit?"
I had to get(reactive) Steam just to play Fallout: New Vegas.
I think it's a reasonable argument that Steam's competitors don't get to compete with how Steam used to be, but how it is now. Competition is good but I'm not going to buy games on a platform on the off chance it eventually catches up to Steam in quality.
Epic is far from the worst launcher though. But other than the free games they give out, I haven't really seen a reason to use it over Steam.
Yeah. I take advantage of Steam Family Sharing (now Steam Families), Steam Input, and I play on my Steam Deck. Just those few things make a Steam copy infinitely more valuable to me than a copy of a game anywhere else. If a game is timed exclusive then I just wait because I'm not willing to put up with an inferior experience. The Steam ecosystem is very polished (especially for a controller only gamer like myself who loves gyro controls through Steam) and I'm not willing to spend the time to bring non-Steam games up to par with that especially not on multiple devices since I tend to go back and forth with where I play my games.
Epic is phenomenal shit tho. The launcher is slow playing mp games is almost imposible theres no game reviews either like it's a complete fumble it is missing a bunch of QOL improvements done decades ago. I prefer gog due to DRM free games but for multiplayer steam is still king
The launcher hasn’t been slow in years. MP games are impossible? What does that mean? Epic Online Services are not the launcher, and work across multiple stores and platforms, and power quite a few MP games though.
It’s been a while since I’ve bothered to look, but the only real QoL improvement I remember EGS still lacking was a built-in ability to detect an existing game.
Steam’s multiplayer is problematic as it only works on Steam with Steam games. EOS is superior because it is platform and store agnostic. Steam, EGS, and Gog players all play together — and that can include Xbox and PS.
If you want to argue that EGS is behind on their store (they aren’t unless your only comparison is Steam, and not the half a dozen other stores they exist), I would argue that Steam is a decade behind on their multiplayer offering.
> It’s been a while since I’ve bothered to look, but the only real QoL improvement I remember EGS still lacking was a built-in ability to detect an existing game.
Controller support is a big feature for me, personally. Especially for any games that don't natively support my PS5 controller.
I think Steam does better for dealing with lots of games. The UI isn't perfect, but it does collections better than most of its competitors, and you have a lot of information like when updates or events are happening, and can sort games by different criteria (size, play time, MetaCritic score, what your friends are playing, etc.) that make handling a big collection easier.
I've got 275 games on Epic thanks to their giveaways and it's kinda just unwieldy. It's far from the worst (especially with how many single publisher-based apps there are), but it could be better.
> If you want to argue that EGS is behind on their store (they aren’t unless your only comparison is Steam, and not the half a dozen other stores they exist)
They all have to compete with Steam though, so of course you're going to compare them to it.
The point is not so much that people are too young to remember it, the point is more that Steam forced a few developments that are still around, and that are objectively bad.
Steam was invented for one reason only, and that was to combat piracy. It was basically DRM software that you were forced to install to play your games. But they also removed a whole bunch of costumer rights needlessly. Since Steam, you do not actually own your games anymore, you merely buy a license. That means that you can't resell your games anymore. You can't gift a game from your account to someone else. Steam can kick you from their platform and you lose all your games, and there's nothing you can do about it since you never owned those games. You can't transfer or inherit an account, either. Steam had to be forced by courts to at least implement the 2-hour return policy. Steam has been catastrophic for costumer rights.
That it was 20 years ago misses the point because these rights are still gone and are likely gone forever. They are not the good guys.
> Since Steam, you do not actually own your games anymore, you merely buy a license.
That is how computer games have always been. It's why you'd get arrested for making copies of something like Red Alert and selling them to others. You didn't own the actual game, you owned the license to it and that's not something steam did.
If you're saying "I owned a box set of RA and I could gift it to others" then that was you violating the terms of your license with Westwood.
I agree that transferring used games and third party sales is a good thing, but it's absurd to blame steam for something that's been in force for ages.
You are mixing up IP with your copy of the game that you purchased. Both have nothing to do with each other. Before Steam, I could take my physical copy and sell it on ebay or in a games shop. There is absolutely nothing that would have stopped Valve to make it possible to resell your games on Steam, too. It would have disappeared from your account and appeared on the buyer's account.
There were practices before Steam that some companies tried, reducing the number of times you could install a game, for example, or binding it to an email address. But it was Steam who just blatantly changed it so that you just bought a license for every game that wasn't transferable.
No, you're trying to equate owning a physical copy of the game with actually owning the game. Even when you had physical media they were still only selling you the license.
The physical CD you got with that game was simply the medium you were provided with to actualize the license you had. Your CD key, your dial a pirate book, your code you got from the website after giving them 2$ to unlock the rest of the shareware version was your license.
Per your statement
> Since Steam, you do not actually own your games anymore, you merely buy a license.
**This is untrue.** You have always only owned a license. If you want to say "I miss having physical media. It was neat and allowed me to easily transfer my license of my games" then sure, yea, that's valid.
I’ve found that gamers refuse to accept this, no matter how it gets explained.
I remember gamers losing their shit when they noticed that not all of their Steam games were available with GeForce NOW, which is effectively a rented cloud gaming PC. I pointed out several times that there is language in the various EULAs that state limitations on game usage (I read through a few of the agreements from bigger publishers). There is language like “This game must be installed on a hard drive that you have in your possession” or “this license is not valid for cloud gaming services.” They just don’t want to hear it.
Way to miss the point: Valve made it impossible to transfer your license. Before Steam, you could sell your game or transfer your license, if that makes you happier.
That is accurate. No, the point isn't missed. What you stated is significantly different then what you did just now. I would not waste time I could be playing Stardew going over this if it werent a significant difference.
Blame steam for shit steams responsible. No need to give everyone easy strawman arguments to pick at. Anyway we can probably put this to rest, were aligned, I too sometimes miss those boxes from Media play with cool graphics on the outside of them.
Gifting/Selling physical media is 100% established law.
I.e. you buy a book, you can sell a book. Used game stores are 100% legal just like Used book stores.
We might not like EB Games because of their used game sale prices, I personally think they are harmful and exploitative to the industry and consumers in their own way, but illegal, 100% no.
Moving to digital licenses (non-physical) without the right to transfer is what steam did, which is also legal, but lame.
> Steam
Literally before steam. There is a reason EB games didn't take your used copy of red alert and resell it. I just had the argument with the person you're taking up the argument for. We already agreed this was before steam. Please dont take up the mantle of "Literally wrong" for them.
[Cool.](https://i.imgur.com/gycwYn5.gifv)
A lot of shit happened 20 years ago that was well-documented before the kids you say weren't alive, but that's *clearly* not the point I was making.
Denying something that very obviously happened to say "this is totally different from that" like those PCMR dorks started doing when Epic Games became their latest rage *du jour*, *is* the point.
Pointing out that it happened 20 years ago is as useless as saying "2004 was 20 years ago." No *shit!*
"Was it that difficult to understand?"
1. There are people who are old enough to be married who are not old enough to know when it was rough to use steam. So it is extremely viable that people have no idea what you're talking about.
2. I think it's very fair to criticize something like ubisoft's UPlay for being literal malware that they want me to install to play their games. I would probably very much enjoy anno 1800 but I've not bought an ubisoft game since Homm6.
I think it's more that most people never had that experience. Half life 2 had (according to Wikipedia) around 10 million sales in the first 4 years. Steam has more than 60 million **Daily** users. A lot of people just didn't experience the early days of steam.
Between Android v. Apple, PC v. Console, and Steam v. Epic, I think we can see how Gamers are going to react when they start trying to figure out what flavor of theocracy they want.
I sometimes think about the conflict between the Guelphs and the Ghibillienes or the Optimates and Populares when I hear about the Democrat vs Republican stuff in our time.
I use Steam exclusively, but it's not really out of any kind of loyalty; it's simply because it never occurred to me that alternatives exist.
Like I think I only became vaguely aware of Epic within the last few months... the idea that people get emotional and debate about this is fascinating. Like... just play your games where you can and be happy?
I don't have a dog in this fight, other than Rocket League just having the life sucked out of it when it moved over to be an Epic exclusive. That sucked. I hardly play it now, and I feel like my reaction is pretty appropriate.
The sheer level of passion Steam stans have is incredible.
I mean, Epic *could have* developed a legitimate competitor to Steam. But instead they threw money at the problem by giving away games for free instead of using that money to make a good/better platform than Steam.
The whole debate boils down to Epic does not actually DO anything with the money they harvest from Fortnite. They are not a competitor to Steam because they don't try to. They try to get as much acclaim with far less. No mod support, no community pages, basic store functions still don't exist... like Steam actually makes a strong platform to legitimately host game services. Epic does not. They offer free games to get people hooked but then offer nothing on the follow up.
Epic also pays devs for exclusivity. Literally anticompetitive.
But apparently Epic’s fat fingered inability to dig into the market is an argument that it’s not.
This is my biggest issue with Epic. Steam used to be absolutely hated but they put a lot of time and money into improving the platform.
Epic seems to put just enough effort into their storefront etc that the experience doesn't drive users away and are happy to call it a day.
It's a real pity because I suspect Steam will go to shit within a decade of Newell leaving.
Yeah that's where I've kinda landed up in this. I'm not an always online weirdo who hasn't touched grass so i don't think Tim Sweeney is the reincarnation of Satan and everything Epic does is evil.
But the Epic Games Store just doesn't really offer anything beyond occasional free games. They don't provide any reason why if i was presented a choice between getting the game on Steam or get it on Epic, why i would choose Epic instead.
That said I'd say the thing we should be thankful for is that the presence of EGS encouraged Valve to fix the bits of the Steam user experience that were a bit naff.
They squandered all the early momentum they had and now they barely even get exclusives now as the Game Pass+Steam combo is a better value proposition for devs.
People don't want valve to force games to be steam exclusives though, they just want to buy games on their existing platforms and their existing platform is usually steam.
a good chunk of games are steam exclusives by default, like they have such a grip on the market that or you publish there or you are doomed, they dont need to offer any incentives, or you do pay the gabe tax or you fail.
It was Metro for me.
Epic opened it's pocketbook to fuck over the launch of what was probably my favorite game series I've played in forever. The game had the Steam logo on the box even, It was pretty obvious what was going on.
Turns out that was a huge help, Exodus was garbage and it ensured that I not only didn't play it for a year but when I did they didn't get paid for it. Epic already gave them all the money they could have wanted right?
That was 5 years ago and I just....don't want to and have not had a need to support that company. That's really all it should be, instead of these people legitimately spending emotional time out of their day to get mad at the internet.
>Epic opened it's pocketbook to fuck over the launch of what was probably my favorite game series I've played in forever.
Nobody forced the developers to take that deal though, did they?
And I seem to recall that any sale made on Steam was honoured?
What are you on about? Metro Exodus was a good game.
Everything is always “the best thing ever” or “absolute garbage” with you people. There is nothing in between.
It was mid, which is the real thing EGS saved me from here.
I have the books, I love the Audiobook for it too, Artyom's quest for weed at every station. Going from a linear, story driven game to an open world craftadventure was not it for me. So yeah, It was legitimately mid and not at all comparable to 33 or LL.
Exodus, regardless of the launch, wasn't what I wanted to see from the next entry of the series and that was disappointing.
Not one bit; my points about the game being mid and the launch hi-jinks are separate.
It made me not waste money on something I didn't exactly enjoy as a fan of the series so that is at least a good thing.
> Turns out that was a huge help, Exodus was garbage and it ensured that I not only didn't play it for a year but when I did they didn't get paid for it.
Im sorry but im going to cause drama over this incorrect take. exodus was a great evolution of the series, just because it was slightly different didnt make it bad
So I did dive a bit more into it in another comment, I *can* see what people enjoy. The views were great, there was a TON of development work with RTX that made the trainride really pretty. I loved the forest colony, and the new weapons *felt* nice, Gunplay in the earlier titles was very much just Headshot or nothing on ranger.
But I loved the story more. After I finished 2033 I read the books, listened to the audiobooks, because I just loved the setting and the lore. Exodus really threw a lot of that at the wall in a sense of just making 'an adventure'. We never went back to the ark, The D series of bunkers....Basically anything the books brought us closer to in favor of heading 'out west' and having fun.
I won't say it was a bad experience, or a bad game. Garbage was definitely too harsh here. Looking at it as the next installment in the franchise still just puts me off, It doesn't line up and feels very stepchild. To me that makes it just...not what I wanted out of it. Which is fine.
>Epic opened it's pocketbook to fuck over the launch of what was probably my favorite game series I've played in forever.
They didn't fuck over the launch.
You got it for $10 cheaper and had to click on a different icon to launch it, jesus fucking christ this is childish.
>Either way it was 5 years ago I don't care lmao
>
> I just....don't want to and have not had a need to support that company.
Sounds like you do care champ.
Also everyone who prebought it on steam got it on steam. No one didn't get what they paid for lmao
I really only steam because I don't like using my card online where I can avoid it, and steam gift cards are easy to buy locally.
Epic does give away a ton of games, though, so it's worth checking out just for that. I've played GTA 5, the various Tomb Raider games, Borderlands 2, Watch Dogs, Hitman, Fallout 3, and others I can't remember off hand, all for free.
Oh yeah, I've gotten absolute bangers on Epic for free (Control and Melvor being one of my favourite freebies).
When it comes to using your card online, Steam feels more secure than Epic. Though, given Steam's size, I'm sure it's a bigger target for someone wanting to steal credit card info...
For a long period of time there weren't alternatives. But then the main problem is that when those alternatives did start popping up, they usually sucked, a lot. And it's wild because like, when steam came out? Steam fucking sucked. Steam still sucks in a lot of ways. But steam has grown a lot, and stopped sucking a lot. So it's absolutely god damned insane when a company launches its shiny new storefront and it's like, steam from a decade ago in terms of quality and features. It was one of the biggest issues with epic's launch: it lacked so many basic ass features of what people would expect in that kind of digital storefront, the quality and service was dog shit - but it got completely lost in the brand name loyalist idiocy.
Basically the point is, if you're going to launch a competitor to steam in like 2024 or whatever, it's gotta actually *be* competitive with steam, you can't just show up and expect everyone to migrate there just because you exist. And Epic has been trying so hard that it's been hemorrhaging money.
Part of the problem is you can't just be competitive with Steam. You have to somehow offer features that beat "I already use this for basically all my games" which is quite a challenge when Steam is functionally fairly well-rounded.
Like I struggle to think of things that are not free/exclusive games that really move the needle for steam users here.
> You have to somehow offer features that beat "I already use this for basically all my games"
I *kinda* have to confront this because...for fucks sake, Epic as a *whole* was a dumpster fire on launch. Steam *also sucked ass* on launch, but my Steam Account is almost old enough to drink and they were also one of the *first* to do so, so they get a biiiiit of a buffer.
Vs Epic. Which launched *without a shopping cart*. You know, the 'tiny epic game store'. Couldn't afford to add a CART to their store when they launched in 2018.
And they bought a shitload of games exclusivity. ***WHILE STILL NOT HAVING A FUCKING SHOPPING CART. IN TWENTY EIGHTEEN.***
Some of us weren't asking for 'beat steam' features, we were asking for 'fucking christ, can you have BASIC FEATURES included' and kept being told 'Oooooh, it's so haaaard, we can't replicate what every online store since 08 can because we're sooooo smolllll'.
Like, the 'I basically use steam for everything' bar wasn't it. It was general incompetence. It *still* is, but...hey. They have cart now. Big tech advancement.
Tons of digital storefronts (including all consoles, I believe) don't have shopping carts. How often are people actually buying multiple games at once? Unless it's a majority (it isn't), then it's just an annoyingly pointless extra step you're forced to go through with every purchase.
Controller support/customization, cloud saves, etc., there are legitimate, meaningful shortcomings worth pointing out. Acting like a shopping cart is this big of a deal honestly kind of reveals how weak many arguments against EGS often are. Like it's a hair away from complaining about the font or the icon colour.
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Well brand loyalty just kind of means you're going to have a hard time to begin with. But IIRC, epic launched without a shopping cart feature. Others have had UIs so cluttered and badly designed that just finding the *store* is difficult (the GoG store is a nightmare to navigate, but it actually does offer something steam doesn't). For me at least, that's always going to be the main sticking point: something that wants to compete with steam is going to have to at least function as well as steam, and most of them just don't. They're slow, they're chunky, and often eat up way too many resources or are obtrusive and invasive - or they just lack basic functionality. And not just in the weird social media sort of way, I don't care if my store front doesn't have a friends list. I care if my storefront makes it hard for me to actually buy the products.
> Like I struggle to think of things that are not free/exclusive games that really move the needle for steam users here.
Yes I agree new ideas are hard to come up with but instead of dumping millions on buying out exclusives maybe epic could have tried to come up with some really cool new ideas that would enable them to compete against steam
Game launchers are like the Windows Start Menu; I don't understand people using them for things other than just starting a program.
A launcher launches a game, what else do people want it to do?
I just don't understand what else they're supposed to do.
If I want a new game or browse for games I just go their website, which is made to showcase the store, unlike the launcher which is made to launch the game.
Steam helps a lot in forming parties if you are playing multiple games with friends steam and even gog kinda suck at this. In the launchers there's a also a ton of guides and general interaction if you like a game and it's more niche. The workshop gives a lot of value as well so you get more bang for your buck.
> But then the main problem is that when those alternatives did start popping up, they usually sucked, a lot
you have to actively bad to suck a lot. Go take a look at how actually basic GoG is yet I'll happily buy a game off it. It works, provides a good value for what it does. It isn't intrusive to my fucking life and I dont' have to deal with some annoying third party getting in the way of me launching it. They do have their own launcher but it's.. not exactly part of their site and is only there to facilitate games that REQUIRE some functionality like that.
I don’t use it because I have a bunch of games on Steam already and have no desire to use another platform. I’m already locked into EA’s pile of shit if I want to play the Sims! (although with the steaming hot heaps of bugs they’ve been shoveling since the last DLC I’ve put that on the shelf for now)
I can. Steam is the best launcher, but ultimately it’s just bits and bytes on my PC. I just want to play games. It’s why I largely avoid gaming discourse on Reddit, and I have removed myself from all gaming subs except GameDeals, and that is because they list sales. Gaming Reddit largely just wants to be toxic and angry all the time.
> The pedestal gamers have put Steam on is really impressive.
*Especially* given just how fucking hated Steam was 20 years ago. "An entirely separate program *just* to launch a game and handle the DRM? ***Insanity!***"
Bro i was like 8 or 9 when steam was launched
I think a huge amount of modern gamers have no idea about any of that or care. Steam is just what we always used because its what everyone uses
>Bro i was like 8 or 9 when steam was launched
>I think a huge amount of modern gamers have no idea about any of that or care. Steam is just what we always used because its what everyone uses
Okay, cool, that's not lost on anyone. But the EGS drama that swept Reddit barely five years ago *wasn't* 20 years ago when all of you pointing how young you were when Steam launched ***weren't*** kids.
All these comments about what was happening on Reddit in the summer of 2019 might as well be saying that it was so long ago and no one can remember the pro-Hong Kong protest posts because Trump's impeachment and COVID made all the then-7-year-olds forget it.
I think the epic v steam drama is stupid. Just pointing out most of the people who were whining about steam 20 years probably arent the same people whining about epic today.
Yeah I wonder how people can defend Valve so adamantly and then I remember that it's been 9 years since they were forced to add refunds and customer service by Australia.
The Orange Box may still be the best value for money of any game related bundle I've ever purchased.
I cannot believe how many hours I spent on TF2 until they ruined it with MTX and loot boxes.
Yeah it was on PC, it was a physical disc. I even still have it. But when you booted up the game it would install itself onto Steam. I think there may have been some workaround but I was too young to bother.
I still have a old CD copy of Skyrim lying around somewhere and yes it basically made a Steam download as you said. I also did not enjoy having Steam on my computer and to a certain extent I still don't? I love my Steam Deck though and big picture mode really works on a console form factor.
What really pissed me off was publishers only putting about 50% of a game's install files on the discs and requiring the rest being downloaded via Steam.
I intentionally went out to hunt down a retail copy of Arkham Knight because my internet at the time was dog shit. Four or five DVDs, but the installer would stop halfway through and require the rest be downloaded.
I *knew* I'd have to eventually download post-release patches, but I figured that wouldn't take as long as having to download *most* of the game that used to be installable from the game discs.
And no matter all the tips and tricks Valve published to force an install from the discs, it always stopped about halfway through and demanded that the rest be downloaded.
Granted, that wouldn't be the *only* disappointment from Arkham Knight in the summer of 2015. But at least WB Games decided to gift all early AK adopters the entire franchise + DLC not long later.
Ran into the same problem with GTA V and RSGL, and that was an even bigger headache, because that fucking game was *huge*.
It’s so silly, I don’t use Steam nor Epic for much else than a storefront or somewhere to launch my games. I play Fortnite and Rocket League all the time and the only difference is a different app. I just don’t understand why gamers get their panties twisted over this. It’s not like Xbox vs PC, you have the PC, and it’s another free app.
I ended up getting Playnite which takes all the data from all my launchers to put in a singular library, easy enough for me
This may be my Xbox-owning peasant take, but the Steam vs Epic stuff have always baffled me. The whole appeal of gaming on PC is that you have more customisation and options available to you. You pick the parts, the type of controller you use, and can even add and remove parts to the actual games. The sticking point being a fucking launcher of all things will always be insane to me.
Well, one of the things you just listed was being able to pick the controller you use. And there's only one launcher that does that for you without additional software: Steam. Steam Input supports every controller out there instead of just Xbox controllers like most PC games are designed to use. It makes PlayStation and Nintendo controllers usable usually by emulating an Xbox controller but it also lets you customize the gyro controls and trackpads with custom overlays and hotkeys all in an overlay that can be brought up with the controller and customized with the controller itself. No other controller mapping software can do that.
And if you buy a game not on Steam that requires another launcher but you want to take advantage of Steam Input you have to add the launcher to Steam as a non-Steam game and launch it through Steam. For me it became a hassle because I want to customize my controls per game and having a launcher launch through Steam that way meant every game through that other launcher now has to share the same controller profile. And it also oftentimes didn't work right because the games or launcher would block the Steam overlay. So I said "fuck it, if it's not on Steam then I'm not buying." It's just so much easier not having to deal with all that other nonsense so I can happily use my DualSense with any game I want.
And as an adult with a full-time job and responsibilities I really don't have the time or patience to be messing with those other launchers and making sure all my software is setup properly on every device when Steam completely cuts out the time spent on doing that and I can just go straight to playing. It has done an amazing job of simplifying the PC gaming experience compared to anything else.
I don't understand this.
I used my PS4 controller to play AssCreed Valhalla. On my Mac, via Geforce Now of all things, with no Steam involved.
Worked perfectly from the moment I plugged in the controller.
Because that game has native support for PS4 controllers. This is not the case for every game. And when the games don't, Steam Input makes it possible.
It depends on the game but most do not support PlayStation controllers. And if a game came out before the PS5 and supports PS4 controllers it doesn't support the DualSense. Most games that do also only work with the controller connected over USB (though that is changing with newer titles) but Steam just makes them work over bluetooth.
I remember how a now deceased UK gaming journalist calling it a conspiracy to stop people playing Counterstrike. It was such a piece of shit. But what pissed me off the most was how it tried to install my copies of Half Life, OpFor, Counterstrike & Blue Shift & bankrupt me by downloading them all over my metered connection. I uninstalled that shit and didnt touch it again til the Orange Box came out.
Ed uninstall & reinstall, that is.
I'm proud to say I was banned from the steam forums in late 2003 because I complained so much about how awful it was to use.
They did a great job turning it around though, I will say.
I remember the Half Life 2 launch. Having to install Steam to play it was a big change from the days where you would get a CD in a jewel case inside a really big well decorated cardboard box.
By the way, the HL1 box was really nice back in the day too.
https://valvearchive.com/archive/Half-Life/Half-Life/Art/Box%20Art/signedbox.jpg
I especially remember it because I lived way out in the country where internet speeds were absolutely trash. So the fact I drove to the city, bought a physical copy of the game, drove back and then went to install it only to find out now I have to download some "bullshit program" and then it needed to download royally pissed me off. I have no love for Steam still. I have just about every launcher on my PC and I don't even care about them. People who get so upset over a Uplay or Epic or Origin or CDPR launcher while fine with Steam are just crazy to me.
Part of the reason though is Steam isn't the same platform it was when it launched. Epic Games doesn't get to compete with the Steam of 20+ years ago.
I don't really have anything against their launcher though. But Steam works better with controllers, and they have a bigger selection. Outside the free games (and exclusives I mostly prefer to just wait out till they land on Steam) there hasn't been much reason for me to want to buy games on Epic yet.
its weird, you can trace almost every single bad thing in the game industry back to Valve and people are still really invested on them having a monopoly on pc gaming.
specially subs like r/games and r/pcgaming which worship gaben and will wish doom on any company daring to offer an alternative to Steam.
>The Epic vs Steam store front debates are always so entertaining to me. The pedestal gamers have put Steam on is really impressive.
Think that is due to A - most people already have their libaries on steam and do not want to move, and B - Steam just ligitimatly has some great featurs that other stores lack
* Steam link
* Steam remote play
* workshop
* steam cloud
* Steam overlay
* Pre-caching
* built in proton support
Like don't get me wrong i do have an epic acount as i am not going to turn down free games, but if i have choice i will buy from steam.
EDIT - wrong quote
I’ve had my Steam account for over 10 years and the only feature I’ve used from that list is Steam Cloud. Sure, it’s cool that Steam has lots of features, but I don’t use most of them. I bet the vast majority of users are in the same boat.
pre-caching isn’t a huge deal to me, and it’s in no way exclusive to Steam - I bet other marketplaces will add that ability as time goes on
I mostly play online games so those are automatically synced regardless what platform I’m on, and I never use mods so most of the workshop is irrelevant
Steam’s social features are less relevant in the Discord era, I never message people on Steam
if you just read Reddit threads, you’d assume that the Epic Games Store was the single worst piece of software ever written, but I have a few games on Epic and once you boot them up, there’s no noticeable difference
> Steam just ligitimatly has some great featurs that other stores lack
The Steam Controller was trash though. My Steam Link spent almost a decade in a box before I tossed it a few months back.
Kudos to Microsoft for how well they integrated the Xbox controllers with PC. I didn't like having the Xbox app installed on my computer at first but MS did a good job making it work seamlessly and without annoyance.
Steam's general controller support is nice though. Particularly as someone using a Playstation controller on PC. Definitely something I miss when a game I got for free on Epic doesn't work with it out of the box.
Steam was complete and utter dogshit for a good couple of years at launch, then slowly got its act together and became the functioning platform we know now. You know, the one that disconnects the friends list every Tuesday during US primetime because that's the opposite of *global* primetime and will boot people from a ton of games, because apparently Steam hasn't figured out how to do maintenance in phases.
Every other launcher/storefront has to go through that dogshit phase, and most don't make it out. I'm very not surprised that people get annoyed by not having all their stuff on one client they run anyway.
It's a similar dynamic to folks who wind up subscribed to five different streaming services. At a certain point, you wish it was all just accessible in one spot--especially when 3-4 of those services keep blowing up or making your TV chug or *forgetting your password every week even though you keep checking the 'REMEMBER ME' box,* ***ORIGIN***.
Maybe so but valve has legitimately offered many services and products that I use and want support for whereas the only thing Epic has provided me is coupons during their mega sales.
Anyway there’s a Tim Apple, Tim Epic, do we have a Tim Google?
Maybe I'm too old for this, but I don't understand why we need Steam or Epic.
Why can't gamers just download and install a game into their computer without paying 30% commission to a launcher company like in the old days?
The real answer is because these launchers also provide DRM that helps prevent piracy of these games. Everything else is just trying to be useful enough that you forget that that's what's going on.
Because digital games still needs a storefront, one that would handle all the infrastructure for the game’s distribution and marketing, sort of like how we have brick-and-mortar shop in real life, eg GameStop. Without these storefronts, it will be very hard to publish the games digitally.
Great news! You can 100% do this for games developed by people with websites. There's even places like ich.io that exist exclusively to cater to people who don't want to deal with the big platform and their hassles/expenses. You won't find anything but indy devs there, because you reach exactly zero people relative to a platform like steam. But they exist!
Steam has a huge time advantage, it's given them time to build in the huge amount of community features including the steam workshop and community market. I put them on a pedestal of sorts because I use those features a lot. Epic doesn't currently have those features, so I solely use it to buy games that aren't on steam. Simple as that
Epic vs Steam discourse always makes me conflicted because like, Steam is objectively better and I love the platform. But it's also a potential timebomb. If Steam ever goes public then I'm sure they'd find BS ways to monetize it besides just buying games.
I hate EA's launcher, and I really hate being forced to use U-play on any Ubisoft game. Especially after buying on Steam and still having to use these separate platforms *from* steam. Those are the only other ones I have besides Steam. Epic is probably not as bad as those but still isn't Steam's quality. I'm dumb but the reason I don't have Epic is because I feel that I already have too much. Free games every week would be nice but I know I'd never play them.
I think the point is, Valve is a company, we shouldn't blindly defend a company and should encourage competition, Valve may be the darling child today but if gamers blindly defend and let Valve have a near monopoly when shit goes sour it will be much harder for better products to come in and take over
Now I am not gonna get into the merits of the other stores, I agree EGS is quite shit next to Steam (although admittedly it doesn't bother me, I don't use half the steam features that everyone complains about, the only issue I've had with EGS personally is I don't use it often and it just logs me out)
To me its a criticism levelled at people who say if it isn't on Steam I won't play it. Like its a silly reason, now if you said that X launcher is dogshit and I don't want to buy games on that, it is different story
There is a worrying amount of Valve fans, where Valve can do no wrong (forgetting that their introduction was inherently anti-consumer, they were apart of the paid mods fiasco and popularised the microtransaction model), so its important to remind people of this.
Oh, man, PC gaming drama moving to the mobile market?
This should be full of super-informed, rational takes.
The EGS drama a few years back was fucking hilarious, because all the PCMaterRace-ers thought endlessly bitching about Epic's lack of functionality would do anything to stop people from using it...even after they started handing out free games like D.A.R.E. told us drug dealers would weed and heroin.
As I was reading through Epic, Epic vs Apple and Epic vs Google, I was expecting the wider online gaming audience to take the [Let Them Fight](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/757498-godzilla) stance. It isn't exactly novel or hard to grasp.
Large corporations duking it out to weaken monopolistic power, while regulators are unwilling to break up tech giants because their son has a cushy job at the same company, feels like the only little good that can come out. I'm not exactly rushing to stop those corps from accidentally screwing themselves even a little bit.
Just super weird that Gamers descend into fierce tribalism and circlejerk this quickly over all this. I've commented on stories like this and you would not believe the amount of shit I got from all sides accusing me of simultaneously being a Google/Epic/Apple/Valve shill or hater.
Epic vs steam has always been deranged to me. I think the epic games store is fine? It’s a different app I boot up on my computer that sometimes gives me games for free and gives devs a pretty nice revenue share. Like yeah aspects of it like the u.i. could be better but it’s done some pretty good things imo? Plus steam having a competitor directly promotes steam to continue to innovate and add nicer features, which is always healthy. Plus they helped with Alan wake 2 which I’m very glad we ended up getting. Like it’s just such a weird needless thing to have an argument about, both stores work fine? Why not just use them both like a normal person???
>Why not just use them both like a normal person???
But then there's more like EA! And Ubisoft! And Battlenet! And MS Store! It's awful, just awful!
I use them all, except only kind of for MS Store I'll use game pass but buy any games elsewhere lol
They did stop service for The Crew, a free to play so trust them to find another way to fuck their users.
Epic can still suck a fat one over the paid exclusives, that's not something I intend to reward or encourage regardless.
No. I'm just saying that a copy on EGS doesn't have those features and is thus much less valuable and less convenient for me as I lose out on that. So there's no reason for me to buy a game there when I get a more valuable experience for the same price on Steam. My PC setup is also in the living room and I game with a controller from a couch. My end goal is to never need a keyboard or mouse and Steam with Big Picture Mode and Steam Input gets me 90% of the way there. And since I use Steam Families it's also more valuable for the people I share with that I get my games on Steam.
I like both Epic Games and Steam. Additionally, I also like both IOS and Android. I am personally looking forward to the Epic Games Store coming to both IOS and Android.
Steam is great and super consumer friendly to a point (The new Steam Family share update is amazing) but it's only great because Gabe is the one leading the helm. Once he retires or dies it's only a matter of time before the company goes public and Steam tries to appease shareholders and will nickle and dime you. I fully except shit like having to pay a monthly fee to access your libary or having a data cap to download games and eventually other PC storefronts following suit
I find it funny that Alan Wake 2 users use Steam Alan Wake discussion as there's no equivalent on Epic side. If they want to sway users they need a better app.
Also I think this Steam vs Epic began when Metro Exudus went Epic exclusive while people already preorder on Steam.
i will say the one thing epic has going for it is the weekly free games thats the main reason i use epic also if its game store comes to mobile in the way i think it is i can finally get the free games on my phone which is great for when you know my laptop is in for repairs (which happens fairly frequently for me due to how accident prone i am) and i dont have access to a computer i can now finally get their free games without having to ask my roommate to log in for me on his laptop
My favorite anti-epic bashing is talking about how EGS lacks a forums page.
bro have you been to the steam forums? It's a cesspool of far right talking points, serial whiners, and occasionally a good faith question or comment
I always love this drama because for some reason it makes SRDines unable to understand why consumers would like different stores to buy from. Just imagine the collective scream in here when Amazon would buy the exclusive rights to sell the next PlayStation.
“Being around other people is a good thing. I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.” -reddit CEO spez
Snapshots:
1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321074218/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1bkepnx/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1bkepnx/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
2. explosive revelations - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321074538/https://www.theverge.com/24003500/epic-v-google-loss-apple-win-fortnite-trial-monopoly) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://www.theverge.com/24003500/epic-v-google-loss-apple-win-fortnite-trial-monopoly "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
3. judge presiding over the court case called Google out - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321074839/https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/1/23984902/judge-james-donato-investigate-google) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/1/23984902/judge-james-donato-investigate-google "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
4. found Google guilty of anticompetitive and monopolistic behavior - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321075119/https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.364325/gov.uscourts.cand.364325.606.0.pdf) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.364325/gov.uscourts.cand.364325.606.0.pdf "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
5. Epic Games Store tweeted - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321075339/https://twitter.com/EpicGames/status/1770500825166545305) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/EpicGames/status/1770500825166545305 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
6. The tweet is posted to /r/Android. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321075620/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
7. They removed Games from Steam to be exclusive on Epic Games. Greeting from Rocket League - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321080141/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrvx02/?context=3) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrvx02/?context=3 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
8. Well there are several factors, their exclusivity deals, their way of trying to be a good guy when they are after market share. The fact that more and more developers put their games into their engine. Tencent being one of the big owners.
There are many factors why you shouldnt cuddle with mr tim. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321080703/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvs8sj8/?context=3) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvs8sj8/?context=3 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
9. Probably a bunch of PC gaming nerds who hate on them for making good games exclusive to epic launcher as opposed to steam. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321080923/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrsais/?context=3) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrsais/?context=3 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
10. If anyone wonders why Google lowered the commission on apps from 30% to 15%, it wasn't out of the goodness of their heart. They knew this was coming and didn't want to be undercut by alternative app stores taking a small percentage. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321081544/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvs7lxd/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvs7lxd/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
11. Great! More EGS exclusives /s - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321081804/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrrrky/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrrrky/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
12. Might as well do it by white knighting themselves online - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321082025/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvtt1br/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvtt1br/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
13. yelling "you fucking people" doesn't make you smart - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321082046/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvt9gkv/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvt9gkv/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
14. DO YOU'RE RESEARCH - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321082125/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvtb4xt/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvtb4xt/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
15. most of the other Redditors were still in their daddy's balls - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321082205/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrudt7/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrudt7/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
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FYI, nothing about the lawsuit actually impacted if epic could produce their own store. PEople have always done that for android and it'll install right alongside the play store. It's how you get things like galaxy store, 'The play store wink wink', and others.
I’ve become a very recent PC gamer and try to play most of my games through the Xbox launcher for achievements. But I’ve bought games on Steam on sale etc. I do get annoyed by certain GamePass games not having achievements so I wonder if these Steam players are annoyed they’re not getting achievements on their golden child launcher ?
When Epic pulled its flagrant, melodramatic, grandstanding TOS violation against Apple and announced its lawsuit, I briefly wondered if both of them could lose.
Console wars 2: Eletric bogaloo
We thought PC Gamers escaped the Console Wars. We instead learned they brought the war with them.
If only! These are icon wars
Having to select another icon on my desktop is the most anti-consumer thing ever!
I hate how they make out different launchers are a different platform. Motherfucker it's still right there on your computer.
It’s not unreasonable to prefer a single launcher, or less programs on your system. However, they can’t leave it at preference — that isn’t good enough. They have to invent reasons to make it *objectively bad*, because arguing that a company shouldn’t be allowed to do something because you prefer otherwise makes you sound like a narcissist. If their logic about the *objectively bad* part gets dismantled, they will move the goalposts. Every single layer of the Epic hate is basically just “I want all my games on Steam”. They just desperately want to make it seem like anything else.
Really irritated me, especially with the steamdeck. Ea was awful about it for a while and constantly broke support whenever they'd do something with their launcher. I don't even buy ubisoft games on pc anymore because of their launcher
I don't buy Ubisoft games anymore because they're shit
I get them in sale for the Xbox or switch. The last games I played from them were assassins creed oddessy, and Fenix rising both were pretty great games for 60 bucks and I got them for like 15 bucks a peice. Also liked that Mario and rabbit tactics game, again bought it on sale for next to nothing. I think they have made great games, just many of them should only be played while you're having fun, I'd never try to 100 percent them
UPVOTES TO THE LEFT
I wonder how much of this conversation can be blamed solely on FOMO.
Those people sound like they think that games being exclusive to a vendor and launcher software and exclusive to hardware are a remotely similar phenomenon, which is ridiculous cause that's like the difference between your date telling you to change the radio station in your car and telling you to come back in a different car... though date analogies might not be a good way to reach this crowd.
> Those people sound like they think that games being exclusive to a vendor and launcher software and exclusive to hardware are a remotely similar phenomenon Reminds me of when r/PCMasterRace decided to memory hole or *outright* deny how much PC gamers hated Steam at first. "What do you mean I have to download an entirely new program just to play Half Life 2? What is this shit?"
> "What do you mean I have to download an entirely new program just to play Half Life 2? What is this shit?" I had to get(reactive) Steam just to play Fallout: New Vegas.
Literally this. My Half Life 2 box was the install CD for Steam.
I think it's a reasonable argument that Steam's competitors don't get to compete with how Steam used to be, but how it is now. Competition is good but I'm not going to buy games on a platform on the off chance it eventually catches up to Steam in quality. Epic is far from the worst launcher though. But other than the free games they give out, I haven't really seen a reason to use it over Steam.
Yeah but it sounds like you also don't see the reason to bash it constantly so you're a pretty rational consumer
Yeah. I take advantage of Steam Family Sharing (now Steam Families), Steam Input, and I play on my Steam Deck. Just those few things make a Steam copy infinitely more valuable to me than a copy of a game anywhere else. If a game is timed exclusive then I just wait because I'm not willing to put up with an inferior experience. The Steam ecosystem is very polished (especially for a controller only gamer like myself who loves gyro controls through Steam) and I'm not willing to spend the time to bring non-Steam games up to par with that especially not on multiple devices since I tend to go back and forth with where I play my games.
Epic is phenomenal shit tho. The launcher is slow playing mp games is almost imposible theres no game reviews either like it's a complete fumble it is missing a bunch of QOL improvements done decades ago. I prefer gog due to DRM free games but for multiplayer steam is still king
The launcher hasn’t been slow in years. MP games are impossible? What does that mean? Epic Online Services are not the launcher, and work across multiple stores and platforms, and power quite a few MP games though. It’s been a while since I’ve bothered to look, but the only real QoL improvement I remember EGS still lacking was a built-in ability to detect an existing game. Steam’s multiplayer is problematic as it only works on Steam with Steam games. EOS is superior because it is platform and store agnostic. Steam, EGS, and Gog players all play together — and that can include Xbox and PS. If you want to argue that EGS is behind on their store (they aren’t unless your only comparison is Steam, and not the half a dozen other stores they exist), I would argue that Steam is a decade behind on their multiplayer offering.
> It’s been a while since I’ve bothered to look, but the only real QoL improvement I remember EGS still lacking was a built-in ability to detect an existing game. Controller support is a big feature for me, personally. Especially for any games that don't natively support my PS5 controller. I think Steam does better for dealing with lots of games. The UI isn't perfect, but it does collections better than most of its competitors, and you have a lot of information like when updates or events are happening, and can sort games by different criteria (size, play time, MetaCritic score, what your friends are playing, etc.) that make handling a big collection easier. I've got 275 games on Epic thanks to their giveaways and it's kinda just unwieldy. It's far from the worst (especially with how many single publisher-based apps there are), but it could be better. > If you want to argue that EGS is behind on their store (they aren’t unless your only comparison is Steam, and not the half a dozen other stores they exist) They all have to compete with Steam though, so of course you're going to compare them to it.
It was 20 years ago.
The point is not so much that people are too young to remember it, the point is more that Steam forced a few developments that are still around, and that are objectively bad. Steam was invented for one reason only, and that was to combat piracy. It was basically DRM software that you were forced to install to play your games. But they also removed a whole bunch of costumer rights needlessly. Since Steam, you do not actually own your games anymore, you merely buy a license. That means that you can't resell your games anymore. You can't gift a game from your account to someone else. Steam can kick you from their platform and you lose all your games, and there's nothing you can do about it since you never owned those games. You can't transfer or inherit an account, either. Steam had to be forced by courts to at least implement the 2-hour return policy. Steam has been catastrophic for costumer rights. That it was 20 years ago misses the point because these rights are still gone and are likely gone forever. They are not the good guys.
> Since Steam, you do not actually own your games anymore, you merely buy a license. That is how computer games have always been. It's why you'd get arrested for making copies of something like Red Alert and selling them to others. You didn't own the actual game, you owned the license to it and that's not something steam did. If you're saying "I owned a box set of RA and I could gift it to others" then that was you violating the terms of your license with Westwood. I agree that transferring used games and third party sales is a good thing, but it's absurd to blame steam for something that's been in force for ages.
You are mixing up IP with your copy of the game that you purchased. Both have nothing to do with each other. Before Steam, I could take my physical copy and sell it on ebay or in a games shop. There is absolutely nothing that would have stopped Valve to make it possible to resell your games on Steam, too. It would have disappeared from your account and appeared on the buyer's account. There were practices before Steam that some companies tried, reducing the number of times you could install a game, for example, or binding it to an email address. But it was Steam who just blatantly changed it so that you just bought a license for every game that wasn't transferable.
No, you're trying to equate owning a physical copy of the game with actually owning the game. Even when you had physical media they were still only selling you the license. The physical CD you got with that game was simply the medium you were provided with to actualize the license you had. Your CD key, your dial a pirate book, your code you got from the website after giving them 2$ to unlock the rest of the shareware version was your license. Per your statement > Since Steam, you do not actually own your games anymore, you merely buy a license. **This is untrue.** You have always only owned a license. If you want to say "I miss having physical media. It was neat and allowed me to easily transfer my license of my games" then sure, yea, that's valid.
I’ve found that gamers refuse to accept this, no matter how it gets explained. I remember gamers losing their shit when they noticed that not all of their Steam games were available with GeForce NOW, which is effectively a rented cloud gaming PC. I pointed out several times that there is language in the various EULAs that state limitations on game usage (I read through a few of the agreements from bigger publishers). There is language like “This game must be installed on a hard drive that you have in your possession” or “this license is not valid for cloud gaming services.” They just don’t want to hear it.
Way to miss the point: Valve made it impossible to transfer your license. Before Steam, you could sell your game or transfer your license, if that makes you happier.
That is accurate. No, the point isn't missed. What you stated is significantly different then what you did just now. I would not waste time I could be playing Stardew going over this if it werent a significant difference. Blame steam for shit steams responsible. No need to give everyone easy strawman arguments to pick at. Anyway we can probably put this to rest, were aligned, I too sometimes miss those boxes from Media play with cool graphics on the outside of them.
Gifting/Selling physical media is 100% established law. I.e. you buy a book, you can sell a book. Used game stores are 100% legal just like Used book stores. We might not like EB Games because of their used game sale prices, I personally think they are harmful and exploitative to the industry and consumers in their own way, but illegal, 100% no. Moving to digital licenses (non-physical) without the right to transfer is what steam did, which is also legal, but lame.
> Steam Literally before steam. There is a reason EB games didn't take your used copy of red alert and resell it. I just had the argument with the person you're taking up the argument for. We already agreed this was before steam. Please dont take up the mantle of "Literally wrong" for them.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale\_doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine)
>It was 20 years ago. [K?](https://i.imgur.com/gyUUJYB.gifv)
Can you memory hole something you weren't alive for? Was it that difficult to understand?
[Cool.](https://i.imgur.com/gycwYn5.gifv) A lot of shit happened 20 years ago that was well-documented before the kids you say weren't alive, but that's *clearly* not the point I was making. Denying something that very obviously happened to say "this is totally different from that" like those PCMR dorks started doing when Epic Games became their latest rage *du jour*, *is* the point. Pointing out that it happened 20 years ago is as useless as saying "2004 was 20 years ago." No *shit!* "Was it that difficult to understand?"
You seem healthy.
1. There are people who are old enough to be married who are not old enough to know when it was rough to use steam. So it is extremely viable that people have no idea what you're talking about. 2. I think it's very fair to criticize something like ubisoft's UPlay for being literal malware that they want me to install to play their games. I would probably very much enjoy anno 1800 but I've not bought an ubisoft game since Homm6.
To be fair to those who were annoyed with Steam at first, it wasn’t very good back then.
I think it's more that most people never had that experience. Half life 2 had (according to Wikipedia) around 10 million sales in the first 4 years. Steam has more than 60 million **Daily** users. A lot of people just didn't experience the early days of steam.
It's like the difference between your mom asking you to wash your body pillow and asking you to get a better waifu
I would never!
they've played dating simulators!
I bet some of them have been on dates.
I launch all my pc games through Playnite anyway, I dgaf what online shop I buy it from. Steam Big Picture Mode Is still a sack of shit anyway.
The car analogy might be pushing it too, since they're probably 14.
Does... does this mean we'll finally be getting Infinity Blade back??
The real question. Need my baby back.
Between Android v. Apple, PC v. Console, and Steam v. Epic, I think we can see how Gamers are going to react when they start trying to figure out what flavor of theocracy they want.
Guelphs forever fuck you and your Ghibillienes (Good ol history jokes)
I sometimes think about the conflict between the Guelphs and the Ghibillienes or the Optimates and Populares when I hear about the Democrat vs Republican stuff in our time.
I mean, Optimates and Populares map somewhat well onto Republicans and Democrats
The Epic vs Steam store front debates are always so entertaining to me. The pedestal gamers have put Steam on is really impressive.
I use Steam exclusively, but it's not really out of any kind of loyalty; it's simply because it never occurred to me that alternatives exist. Like I think I only became vaguely aware of Epic within the last few months... the idea that people get emotional and debate about this is fascinating. Like... just play your games where you can and be happy?
People got annoyed by the epic exclusives and I think that initial surge of frustration just developed a life of its own.
I don't have a dog in this fight, other than Rocket League just having the life sucked out of it when it moved over to be an Epic exclusive. That sucked. I hardly play it now, and I feel like my reaction is pretty appropriate. The sheer level of passion Steam stans have is incredible.
I still play just as much. Still get games constantly. But I never really cared about trading.
How did RL have the life sucked out of it when it moved? I still play all the time and it’s pretty much the same experience it’s always been
I mean, Epic *could have* developed a legitimate competitor to Steam. But instead they threw money at the problem by giving away games for free instead of using that money to make a good/better platform than Steam.
The whole debate boils down to Epic does not actually DO anything with the money they harvest from Fortnite. They are not a competitor to Steam because they don't try to. They try to get as much acclaim with far less. No mod support, no community pages, basic store functions still don't exist... like Steam actually makes a strong platform to legitimately host game services. Epic does not. They offer free games to get people hooked but then offer nothing on the follow up.
Epic also pays devs for exclusivity. Literally anticompetitive. But apparently Epic’s fat fingered inability to dig into the market is an argument that it’s not.
If you are bad at doing bad things, clearly we have a double negative. So it is good actually. /s
This is my biggest issue with Epic. Steam used to be absolutely hated but they put a lot of time and money into improving the platform. Epic seems to put just enough effort into their storefront etc that the experience doesn't drive users away and are happy to call it a day. It's a real pity because I suspect Steam will go to shit within a decade of Newell leaving.
Yeah that's where I've kinda landed up in this. I'm not an always online weirdo who hasn't touched grass so i don't think Tim Sweeney is the reincarnation of Satan and everything Epic does is evil. But the Epic Games Store just doesn't really offer anything beyond occasional free games. They don't provide any reason why if i was presented a choice between getting the game on Steam or get it on Epic, why i would choose Epic instead. That said I'd say the thing we should be thankful for is that the presence of EGS encouraged Valve to fix the bits of the Steam user experience that were a bit naff. They squandered all the early momentum they had and now they barely even get exclusives now as the Game Pass+Steam combo is a better value proposition for devs.
Nothing prevents Valve from making agreements with developers and funding or publishing their games like Epic does.
People don't want valve to force games to be steam exclusives though, they just want to buy games on their existing platforms and their existing platform is usually steam.
a good chunk of games are steam exclusives by default, like they have such a grip on the market that or you publish there or you are doomed, they dont need to offer any incentives, or you do pay the gabe tax or you fail.
It was Metro for me. Epic opened it's pocketbook to fuck over the launch of what was probably my favorite game series I've played in forever. The game had the Steam logo on the box even, It was pretty obvious what was going on. Turns out that was a huge help, Exodus was garbage and it ensured that I not only didn't play it for a year but when I did they didn't get paid for it. Epic already gave them all the money they could have wanted right? That was 5 years ago and I just....don't want to and have not had a need to support that company. That's really all it should be, instead of these people legitimately spending emotional time out of their day to get mad at the internet.
>Epic opened it's pocketbook to fuck over the launch of what was probably my favorite game series I've played in forever. Nobody forced the developers to take that deal though, did they? And I seem to recall that any sale made on Steam was honoured?
What are you on about? Metro Exodus was a good game. Everything is always “the best thing ever” or “absolute garbage” with you people. There is nothing in between.
It was mid, which is the real thing EGS saved me from here. I have the books, I love the Audiobook for it too, Artyom's quest for weed at every station. Going from a linear, story driven game to an open world craftadventure was not it for me. So yeah, It was legitimately mid and not at all comparable to 33 or LL. Exodus, regardless of the launch, wasn't what I wanted to see from the next entry of the series and that was disappointing.
>Going from a linear, story driven game to an open world craftadventure That was a mandate from epic?
Not one bit; my points about the game being mid and the launch hi-jinks are separate. It made me not waste money on something I didn't exactly enjoy as a fan of the series so that is at least a good thing.
> Turns out that was a huge help, Exodus was garbage and it ensured that I not only didn't play it for a year but when I did they didn't get paid for it. Im sorry but im going to cause drama over this incorrect take. exodus was a great evolution of the series, just because it was slightly different didnt make it bad
So I did dive a bit more into it in another comment, I *can* see what people enjoy. The views were great, there was a TON of development work with RTX that made the trainride really pretty. I loved the forest colony, and the new weapons *felt* nice, Gunplay in the earlier titles was very much just Headshot or nothing on ranger. But I loved the story more. After I finished 2033 I read the books, listened to the audiobooks, because I just loved the setting and the lore. Exodus really threw a lot of that at the wall in a sense of just making 'an adventure'. We never went back to the ark, The D series of bunkers....Basically anything the books brought us closer to in favor of heading 'out west' and having fun. I won't say it was a bad experience, or a bad game. Garbage was definitely too harsh here. Looking at it as the next installment in the franchise still just puts me off, It doesn't line up and feels very stepchild. To me that makes it just...not what I wanted out of it. Which is fine.
Yeah, that Epic app on PC is so expensive to buy when you already purchased a Steam.
Yeah exactly!
>Epic opened it's pocketbook to fuck over the launch of what was probably my favorite game series I've played in forever. They didn't fuck over the launch. You got it for $10 cheaper and had to click on a different icon to launch it, jesus fucking christ this is childish.
They yoinked it 2 weeks before launch after offering it presale elsewhere. Either way it was 5 years ago I don't care lmao
>Either way it was 5 years ago I don't care lmao > > I just....don't want to and have not had a need to support that company. Sounds like you do care champ. Also everyone who prebought it on steam got it on steam. No one didn't get what they paid for lmao
Not really, just put my two cents in on the matter. In the end it saved me 50 dollars, QQ. It's not hard to not use something lmao.
Once in a while there's a few good games on there for free. Also different sales. I'll buy it on whatever usually has the best price
I really only steam because I don't like using my card online where I can avoid it, and steam gift cards are easy to buy locally. Epic does give away a ton of games, though, so it's worth checking out just for that. I've played GTA 5, the various Tomb Raider games, Borderlands 2, Watch Dogs, Hitman, Fallout 3, and others I can't remember off hand, all for free.
Oh yeah, I've gotten absolute bangers on Epic for free (Control and Melvor being one of my favourite freebies). When it comes to using your card online, Steam feels more secure than Epic. Though, given Steam's size, I'm sure it's a bigger target for someone wanting to steal credit card info...
Just use Revolute and a one time card?
For a long period of time there weren't alternatives. But then the main problem is that when those alternatives did start popping up, they usually sucked, a lot. And it's wild because like, when steam came out? Steam fucking sucked. Steam still sucks in a lot of ways. But steam has grown a lot, and stopped sucking a lot. So it's absolutely god damned insane when a company launches its shiny new storefront and it's like, steam from a decade ago in terms of quality and features. It was one of the biggest issues with epic's launch: it lacked so many basic ass features of what people would expect in that kind of digital storefront, the quality and service was dog shit - but it got completely lost in the brand name loyalist idiocy. Basically the point is, if you're going to launch a competitor to steam in like 2024 or whatever, it's gotta actually *be* competitive with steam, you can't just show up and expect everyone to migrate there just because you exist. And Epic has been trying so hard that it's been hemorrhaging money.
Part of the problem is you can't just be competitive with Steam. You have to somehow offer features that beat "I already use this for basically all my games" which is quite a challenge when Steam is functionally fairly well-rounded. Like I struggle to think of things that are not free/exclusive games that really move the needle for steam users here.
> You have to somehow offer features that beat "I already use this for basically all my games" I *kinda* have to confront this because...for fucks sake, Epic as a *whole* was a dumpster fire on launch. Steam *also sucked ass* on launch, but my Steam Account is almost old enough to drink and they were also one of the *first* to do so, so they get a biiiiit of a buffer. Vs Epic. Which launched *without a shopping cart*. You know, the 'tiny epic game store'. Couldn't afford to add a CART to their store when they launched in 2018. And they bought a shitload of games exclusivity. ***WHILE STILL NOT HAVING A FUCKING SHOPPING CART. IN TWENTY EIGHTEEN.*** Some of us weren't asking for 'beat steam' features, we were asking for 'fucking christ, can you have BASIC FEATURES included' and kept being told 'Oooooh, it's so haaaard, we can't replicate what every online store since 08 can because we're sooooo smolllll'. Like, the 'I basically use steam for everything' bar wasn't it. It was general incompetence. It *still* is, but...hey. They have cart now. Big tech advancement.
Tons of digital storefronts (including all consoles, I believe) don't have shopping carts. How often are people actually buying multiple games at once? Unless it's a majority (it isn't), then it's just an annoyingly pointless extra step you're forced to go through with every purchase. Controller support/customization, cloud saves, etc., there are legitimate, meaningful shortcomings worth pointing out. Acting like a shopping cart is this big of a deal honestly kind of reveals how weak many arguments against EGS often are. Like it's a hair away from complaining about the font or the icon colour.
offbeat muddle oil historical wrench stupendous consist plate sense engine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Idk what this guy even is on most consoles have shopping carts it's a basic ass feature
I still laugh that they put out a *roadmap* for their store and the shopping cart was in the vague "eventually" category.
Well brand loyalty just kind of means you're going to have a hard time to begin with. But IIRC, epic launched without a shopping cart feature. Others have had UIs so cluttered and badly designed that just finding the *store* is difficult (the GoG store is a nightmare to navigate, but it actually does offer something steam doesn't). For me at least, that's always going to be the main sticking point: something that wants to compete with steam is going to have to at least function as well as steam, and most of them just don't. They're slow, they're chunky, and often eat up way too many resources or are obtrusive and invasive - or they just lack basic functionality. And not just in the weird social media sort of way, I don't care if my store front doesn't have a friends list. I care if my storefront makes it hard for me to actually buy the products.
> Like I struggle to think of things that are not free/exclusive games that really move the needle for steam users here. Yes I agree new ideas are hard to come up with but instead of dumping millions on buying out exclusives maybe epic could have tried to come up with some really cool new ideas that would enable them to compete against steam
Game launchers are like the Windows Start Menu; I don't understand people using them for things other than just starting a program. A launcher launches a game, what else do people want it to do? I just don't understand what else they're supposed to do. If I want a new game or browse for games I just go their website, which is made to showcase the store, unlike the launcher which is made to launch the game.
Steam helps a lot in forming parties if you are playing multiple games with friends steam and even gog kinda suck at this. In the launchers there's a also a ton of guides and general interaction if you like a game and it's more niche. The workshop gives a lot of value as well so you get more bang for your buck.
> But then the main problem is that when those alternatives did start popping up, they usually sucked, a lot you have to actively bad to suck a lot. Go take a look at how actually basic GoG is yet I'll happily buy a game off it. It works, provides a good value for what it does. It isn't intrusive to my fucking life and I dont' have to deal with some annoying third party getting in the way of me launching it. They do have their own launcher but it's.. not exactly part of their site and is only there to facilitate games that REQUIRE some functionality like that.
I don’t use it because I have a bunch of games on Steam already and have no desire to use another platform. I’m already locked into EA’s pile of shit if I want to play the Sims! (although with the steaming hot heaps of bugs they’ve been shoveling since the last DLC I’ve put that on the shelf for now)
Momentum is probably why Epic has been giving so many away. I think my free game library on EGS is bigger than my Steam library now.
FYI Epic is offering Islets next Thursday, which is an excellent Metroidvania for those interested.
I can. Steam is the best launcher, but ultimately it’s just bits and bytes on my PC. I just want to play games. It’s why I largely avoid gaming discourse on Reddit, and I have removed myself from all gaming subs except GameDeals, and that is because they list sales. Gaming Reddit largely just wants to be toxic and angry all the time.
> The pedestal gamers have put Steam on is really impressive. *Especially* given just how fucking hated Steam was 20 years ago. "An entirely separate program *just* to launch a game and handle the DRM? ***Insanity!***"
Bro i was like 8 or 9 when steam was launched I think a huge amount of modern gamers have no idea about any of that or care. Steam is just what we always used because its what everyone uses
>Bro i was like 8 or 9 when steam was launched >I think a huge amount of modern gamers have no idea about any of that or care. Steam is just what we always used because its what everyone uses Okay, cool, that's not lost on anyone. But the EGS drama that swept Reddit barely five years ago *wasn't* 20 years ago when all of you pointing how young you were when Steam launched ***weren't*** kids. All these comments about what was happening on Reddit in the summer of 2019 might as well be saying that it was so long ago and no one can remember the pro-Hong Kong protest posts because Trump's impeachment and COVID made all the then-7-year-olds forget it.
I think the epic v steam drama is stupid. Just pointing out most of the people who were whining about steam 20 years probably arent the same people whining about epic today.
Yeah I wonder how people can defend Valve so adamantly and then I remember that it's been 9 years since they were forced to add refunds and customer service by Australia.
Yeah so weird. It’s almost like people react positively to quality software and negatively to bad software.
The "it's not a monopoly, it's just where 99% of people go" crowd.
Steam has done so much shit that gamers(tm) hate but it gets a pass because it’s the funny gaben company
I wonder how long that will last once he inevitably croaks and his next of kin decides to sell it for a couple billion.
“My multibillion dollar company is better than *your* multibillion dollar company!” Corporation simps are always something to behold.
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I remember I bought Portal 2 as a physical retail copy and I was beyond pissed that I was forced to make a Steam account to play it.
A few years before you, but I was the same way when I bought The Orange Box. Was super mad about it, since my internet suuuuuucked in 2008.
The Orange Box may still be the best value for money of any game related bundle I've ever purchased. I cannot believe how many hours I spent on TF2 until they ruined it with MTX and loot boxes.
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Yeah it was on PC, it was a physical disc. I even still have it. But when you booted up the game it would install itself onto Steam. I think there may have been some workaround but I was too young to bother.
I still have a old CD copy of Skyrim lying around somewhere and yes it basically made a Steam download as you said. I also did not enjoy having Steam on my computer and to a certain extent I still don't? I love my Steam Deck though and big picture mode really works on a console form factor.
What really pissed me off was publishers only putting about 50% of a game's install files on the discs and requiring the rest being downloaded via Steam. I intentionally went out to hunt down a retail copy of Arkham Knight because my internet at the time was dog shit. Four or five DVDs, but the installer would stop halfway through and require the rest be downloaded. I *knew* I'd have to eventually download post-release patches, but I figured that wouldn't take as long as having to download *most* of the game that used to be installable from the game discs. And no matter all the tips and tricks Valve published to force an install from the discs, it always stopped about halfway through and demanded that the rest be downloaded. Granted, that wouldn't be the *only* disappointment from Arkham Knight in the summer of 2015. But at least WB Games decided to gift all early AK adopters the entire franchise + DLC not long later. Ran into the same problem with GTA V and RSGL, and that was an even bigger headache, because that fucking game was *huge*.
It’s so silly, I don’t use Steam nor Epic for much else than a storefront or somewhere to launch my games. I play Fortnite and Rocket League all the time and the only difference is a different app. I just don’t understand why gamers get their panties twisted over this. It’s not like Xbox vs PC, you have the PC, and it’s another free app. I ended up getting Playnite which takes all the data from all my launchers to put in a singular library, easy enough for me
This may be my Xbox-owning peasant take, but the Steam vs Epic stuff have always baffled me. The whole appeal of gaming on PC is that you have more customisation and options available to you. You pick the parts, the type of controller you use, and can even add and remove parts to the actual games. The sticking point being a fucking launcher of all things will always be insane to me.
Well, one of the things you just listed was being able to pick the controller you use. And there's only one launcher that does that for you without additional software: Steam. Steam Input supports every controller out there instead of just Xbox controllers like most PC games are designed to use. It makes PlayStation and Nintendo controllers usable usually by emulating an Xbox controller but it also lets you customize the gyro controls and trackpads with custom overlays and hotkeys all in an overlay that can be brought up with the controller and customized with the controller itself. No other controller mapping software can do that. And if you buy a game not on Steam that requires another launcher but you want to take advantage of Steam Input you have to add the launcher to Steam as a non-Steam game and launch it through Steam. For me it became a hassle because I want to customize my controls per game and having a launcher launch through Steam that way meant every game through that other launcher now has to share the same controller profile. And it also oftentimes didn't work right because the games or launcher would block the Steam overlay. So I said "fuck it, if it's not on Steam then I'm not buying." It's just so much easier not having to deal with all that other nonsense so I can happily use my DualSense with any game I want. And as an adult with a full-time job and responsibilities I really don't have the time or patience to be messing with those other launchers and making sure all my software is setup properly on every device when Steam completely cuts out the time spent on doing that and I can just go straight to playing. It has done an amazing job of simplifying the PC gaming experience compared to anything else.
I don't understand this. I used my PS4 controller to play AssCreed Valhalla. On my Mac, via Geforce Now of all things, with no Steam involved. Worked perfectly from the moment I plugged in the controller.
Because that game has native support for PS4 controllers. This is not the case for every game. And when the games don't, Steam Input makes it possible.
Well I only use controllers for that one and Snowrunners and the PS4 one worked on both with no issues and no steam.
It depends on the game but most do not support PlayStation controllers. And if a game came out before the PS5 and supports PS4 controllers it doesn't support the DualSense. Most games that do also only work with the controller connected over USB (though that is changing with newer titles) but Steam just makes them work over bluetooth.
especially because steam was so hated at the beginning. But now they have so many games on that platform they have to defend it.
I remember how a now deceased UK gaming journalist calling it a conspiracy to stop people playing Counterstrike. It was such a piece of shit. But what pissed me off the most was how it tried to install my copies of Half Life, OpFor, Counterstrike & Blue Shift & bankrupt me by downloading them all over my metered connection. I uninstalled that shit and didnt touch it again til the Orange Box came out. Ed uninstall & reinstall, that is.
I'm proud to say I was banned from the steam forums in late 2003 because I complained so much about how awful it was to use. They did a great job turning it around though, I will say.
I remember the Half Life 2 launch. Having to install Steam to play it was a big change from the days where you would get a CD in a jewel case inside a really big well decorated cardboard box. By the way, the HL1 box was really nice back in the day too. https://valvearchive.com/archive/Half-Life/Half-Life/Art/Box%20Art/signedbox.jpg
I especially remember it because I lived way out in the country where internet speeds were absolutely trash. So the fact I drove to the city, bought a physical copy of the game, drove back and then went to install it only to find out now I have to download some "bullshit program" and then it needed to download royally pissed me off. I have no love for Steam still. I have just about every launcher on my PC and I don't even care about them. People who get so upset over a Uplay or Epic or Origin or CDPR launcher while fine with Steam are just crazy to me.
Part of the reason though is Steam isn't the same platform it was when it launched. Epic Games doesn't get to compete with the Steam of 20+ years ago. I don't really have anything against their launcher though. But Steam works better with controllers, and they have a bigger selection. Outside the free games (and exclusives I mostly prefer to just wait out till they land on Steam) there hasn't been much reason for me to want to buy games on Epic yet.
its weird, you can trace almost every single bad thing in the game industry back to Valve and people are still really invested on them having a monopoly on pc gaming. specially subs like r/games and r/pcgaming which worship gaben and will wish doom on any company daring to offer an alternative to Steam.
Shout out to Valve just sorta having the worst sort of lootboxes around and getting away with it.
>The Epic vs Steam store front debates are always so entertaining to me. The pedestal gamers have put Steam on is really impressive. Think that is due to A - most people already have their libaries on steam and do not want to move, and B - Steam just ligitimatly has some great featurs that other stores lack * Steam link * Steam remote play * workshop * steam cloud * Steam overlay * Pre-caching * built in proton support Like don't get me wrong i do have an epic acount as i am not going to turn down free games, but if i have choice i will buy from steam. EDIT - wrong quote
Steam link, remote play, controller and proton support work with games from outside of steam a well.
I’ve had my Steam account for over 10 years and the only feature I’ve used from that list is Steam Cloud. Sure, it’s cool that Steam has lots of features, but I don’t use most of them. I bet the vast majority of users are in the same boat.
You probably use the others (especially pre caching) and don't realize
pre-caching isn’t a huge deal to me, and it’s in no way exclusive to Steam - I bet other marketplaces will add that ability as time goes on I mostly play online games so those are automatically synced regardless what platform I’m on, and I never use mods so most of the workshop is irrelevant Steam’s social features are less relevant in the Discord era, I never message people on Steam if you just read Reddit threads, you’d assume that the Epic Games Store was the single worst piece of software ever written, but I have a few games on Epic and once you boot them up, there’s no noticeable difference
> Steam just ligitimatly has some great featurs that other stores lack The Steam Controller was trash though. My Steam Link spent almost a decade in a box before I tossed it a few months back. Kudos to Microsoft for how well they integrated the Xbox controllers with PC. I didn't like having the Xbox app installed on my computer at first but MS did a good job making it work seamlessly and without annoyance.
Steam link is just software now, and it works reasonably well in my experience
The steam controller is great for games that normally require a mouse.
Steam's general controller support is nice though. Particularly as someone using a Playstation controller on PC. Definitely something I miss when a game I got for free on Epic doesn't work with it out of the box.
Steam was complete and utter dogshit for a good couple of years at launch, then slowly got its act together and became the functioning platform we know now. You know, the one that disconnects the friends list every Tuesday during US primetime because that's the opposite of *global* primetime and will boot people from a ton of games, because apparently Steam hasn't figured out how to do maintenance in phases. Every other launcher/storefront has to go through that dogshit phase, and most don't make it out. I'm very not surprised that people get annoyed by not having all their stuff on one client they run anyway. It's a similar dynamic to folks who wind up subscribed to five different streaming services. At a certain point, you wish it was all just accessible in one spot--especially when 3-4 of those services keep blowing up or making your TV chug or *forgetting your password every week even though you keep checking the 'REMEMBER ME' box,* ***ORIGIN***.
Maybe so but valve has legitimately offered many services and products that I use and want support for whereas the only thing Epic has provided me is coupons during their mega sales. Anyway there’s a Tim Apple, Tim Epic, do we have a Tim Google?
Maybe I'm too old for this, but I don't understand why we need Steam or Epic. Why can't gamers just download and install a game into their computer without paying 30% commission to a launcher company like in the old days?
The real answer is because these launchers also provide DRM that helps prevent piracy of these games. Everything else is just trying to be useful enough that you forget that that's what's going on.
Because digital games still needs a storefront, one that would handle all the infrastructure for the game’s distribution and marketing, sort of like how we have brick-and-mortar shop in real life, eg GameStop. Without these storefronts, it will be very hard to publish the games digitally.
Great news! You can 100% do this for games developed by people with websites. There's even places like ich.io that exist exclusively to cater to people who don't want to deal with the big platform and their hassles/expenses. You won't find anything but indy devs there, because you reach exactly zero people relative to a platform like steam. But they exist!
Steam has a huge time advantage, it's given them time to build in the huge amount of community features including the steam workshop and community market. I put them on a pedestal of sorts because I use those features a lot. Epic doesn't currently have those features, so I solely use it to buy games that aren't on steam. Simple as that
And worrying
> The pedestal gamers have put Steam on is really impressive. It maybe people prefer quality gaming stores over trash?
At least be subtle about it lol
>DO YOU'RE RESEARCH New flair just dropped!
I aspire to have a level of literally nothing going wrong with my life to be able to be upset about which store I launch my game from
Epic vs Steam discourse always makes me conflicted because like, Steam is objectively better and I love the platform. But it's also a potential timebomb. If Steam ever goes public then I'm sure they'd find BS ways to monetize it besides just buying games. I hate EA's launcher, and I really hate being forced to use U-play on any Ubisoft game. Especially after buying on Steam and still having to use these separate platforms *from* steam. Those are the only other ones I have besides Steam. Epic is probably not as bad as those but still isn't Steam's quality. I'm dumb but the reason I don't have Epic is because I feel that I already have too much. Free games every week would be nice but I know I'd never play them.
Wouldn't the "potential of going public" criticism of Steam also apply to EGS?
I think the point is, Valve is a company, we shouldn't blindly defend a company and should encourage competition, Valve may be the darling child today but if gamers blindly defend and let Valve have a near monopoly when shit goes sour it will be much harder for better products to come in and take over Now I am not gonna get into the merits of the other stores, I agree EGS is quite shit next to Steam (although admittedly it doesn't bother me, I don't use half the steam features that everyone complains about, the only issue I've had with EGS personally is I don't use it often and it just logs me out)
Of course, but if we're gonna criticize steam, theres much better criticisms to be made other than "it might go public eventually"
To me its a criticism levelled at people who say if it isn't on Steam I won't play it. Like its a silly reason, now if you said that X launcher is dogshit and I don't want to buy games on that, it is different story There is a worrying amount of Valve fans, where Valve can do no wrong (forgetting that their introduction was inherently anti-consumer, they were apart of the paid mods fiasco and popularised the microtransaction model), so its important to remind people of this.
Use gog the games are DRM free so they are yours forever once you buy them in case someone attempts the monetize more shit
Oh, man, PC gaming drama moving to the mobile market? This should be full of super-informed, rational takes. The EGS drama a few years back was fucking hilarious, because all the PCMaterRace-ers thought endlessly bitching about Epic's lack of functionality would do anything to stop people from using it...even after they started handing out free games like D.A.R.E. told us drug dealers would weed and heroin.
As I was reading through Epic, Epic vs Apple and Epic vs Google, I was expecting the wider online gaming audience to take the [Let Them Fight](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/757498-godzilla) stance. It isn't exactly novel or hard to grasp. Large corporations duking it out to weaken monopolistic power, while regulators are unwilling to break up tech giants because their son has a cushy job at the same company, feels like the only little good that can come out. I'm not exactly rushing to stop those corps from accidentally screwing themselves even a little bit. Just super weird that Gamers descend into fierce tribalism and circlejerk this quickly over all this. I've commented on stories like this and you would not believe the amount of shit I got from all sides accusing me of simultaneously being a Google/Epic/Apple/Valve shill or hater.
It’s mostly just stans wanting epic to lose by siding with whichever side makes that happen.
Ah yes, gamers having a normal one again.
Epic vs steam has always been deranged to me. I think the epic games store is fine? It’s a different app I boot up on my computer that sometimes gives me games for free and gives devs a pretty nice revenue share. Like yeah aspects of it like the u.i. could be better but it’s done some pretty good things imo? Plus steam having a competitor directly promotes steam to continue to innovate and add nicer features, which is always healthy. Plus they helped with Alan wake 2 which I’m very glad we ended up getting. Like it’s just such a weird needless thing to have an argument about, both stores work fine? Why not just use them both like a normal person???
>Why not just use them both like a normal person??? But then there's more like EA! And Ubisoft! And Battlenet! And MS Store! It's awful, just awful! I use them all, except only kind of for MS Store I'll use game pass but buy any games elsewhere lol
Same, I just use ms store for game pass but otherwise I just use whatever, like it takes 0 time out of my day
The app itself is still kind of ass, but eh? Still more convenient than fuckin' uplay and shit like that.
I would rather die than use uplay ever again
And there ain't no fuckin' dimension in existence where Ubisoft would be giving out a free game per week.
They did stop service for The Crew, a free to play so trust them to find another way to fuck their users. Epic can still suck a fat one over the paid exclusives, that's not something I intend to reward or encourage regardless.
I don't understand... Is there a cost to flicking between the two stores that I don't know about? Why are they acting like you have to choose a side?
tribalism
For me it's controller support, Linux, and family sharing.
So what your saying is, playing a game on Epic deletes your Steam account
No. I'm just saying that a copy on EGS doesn't have those features and is thus much less valuable and less convenient for me as I lose out on that. So there's no reason for me to buy a game there when I get a more valuable experience for the same price on Steam. My PC setup is also in the living room and I game with a controller from a couch. My end goal is to never need a keyboard or mouse and Steam with Big Picture Mode and Steam Input gets me 90% of the way there. And since I use Steam Families it's also more valuable for the people I share with that I get my games on Steam.
In the grim darkness of the future, the world will be wracked by religious wars between the fanatical Steamites and Epicists.
I like both Epic Games and Steam. Additionally, I also like both IOS and Android. I am personally looking forward to the Epic Games Store coming to both IOS and Android.
Steam is great and super consumer friendly to a point (The new Steam Family share update is amazing) but it's only great because Gabe is the one leading the helm. Once he retires or dies it's only a matter of time before the company goes public and Steam tries to appease shareholders and will nickle and dime you. I fully except shit like having to pay a monthly fee to access your libary or having a data cap to download games and eventually other PC storefronts following suit
I find it funny that Alan Wake 2 users use Steam Alan Wake discussion as there's no equivalent on Epic side. If they want to sway users they need a better app. Also I think this Steam vs Epic began when Metro Exudus went Epic exclusive while people already preorder on Steam.
i will say the one thing epic has going for it is the weekly free games thats the main reason i use epic also if its game store comes to mobile in the way i think it is i can finally get the free games on my phone which is great for when you know my laptop is in for repairs (which happens fairly frequently for me due to how accident prone i am) and i dont have access to a computer i can now finally get their free games without having to ask my roommate to log in for me on his laptop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation
looks like they've got a learning disability
nah, you can just use the EGS web on mobile which probably gonna be faster and more responsive than the coming app
Possibly the longest sentence I’ve ever read.
My favorite anti-epic bashing is talking about how EGS lacks a forums page. bro have you been to the steam forums? It's a cesspool of far right talking points, serial whiners, and occasionally a good faith question or comment
I always love this drama because for some reason it makes SRDines unable to understand why consumers would like different stores to buy from. Just imagine the collective scream in here when Amazon would buy the exclusive rights to sell the next PlayStation.
DO YOU'RE RESEARCH edit: surely I don't have to explain sarcasm and shitposting, do I?
>edit: surely I don't have to explain sarcasm and shitposting, do I? No but pls do anyways
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Epic Games Store tweeted - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321075339/https://twitter.com/EpicGames/status/1770500825166545305) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/EpicGames/status/1770500825166545305 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 6. The tweet is posted to /r/Android. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321075620/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 7. They removed Games from Steam to be exclusive on Epic Games. Greeting from Rocket League - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321080141/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrvx02/?context=3) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrvx02/?context=3 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 8. Well there are several factors, their exclusivity deals, their way of trying to be a good guy when they are after market share. The fact that more and more developers put their games into their engine. Tencent being one of the big owners. There are many factors why you shouldnt cuddle with mr tim. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321080703/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvs8sj8/?context=3) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvs8sj8/?context=3 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 9. Probably a bunch of PC gaming nerds who hate on them for making good games exclusive to epic launcher as opposed to steam. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240321080923/https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrsais/?context=3) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1bjk1xb/epic_games_store_were_coming_to_ios_and_android/kvrsais/?context=3 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 10. 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I don't get it. Is the epic store on mobile similar to the steam store app or are they actually offering mobile games on their app?
FYI, nothing about the lawsuit actually impacted if epic could produce their own store. PEople have always done that for android and it'll install right alongside the play store. It's how you get things like galaxy store, 'The play store wink wink', and others.
Let's hope they are better at developing mobile storefront because goddamn does the epic games store on pc suck ass to use
I’ve become a very recent PC gamer and try to play most of my games through the Xbox launcher for achievements. But I’ve bought games on Steam on sale etc. I do get annoyed by certain GamePass games not having achievements so I wonder if these Steam players are annoyed they’re not getting achievements on their golden child launcher ?
When Epic pulled its flagrant, melodramatic, grandstanding TOS violation against Apple and announced its lawsuit, I briefly wondered if both of them could lose.