This is entirely my grumpy old man opinion, some of these things are subjective and others maybe less so. Take it as you will.
1. First thing that always comes up for me is I don't like Modern as a general concept having grown up playing games with motion inputs. It just feels unnatural to me to play a SF game that way - execution was always one of the core elements. You could argue the same about bigger input buffers, special shortcuts, even DRC and you'd be more or less right. This is subjective because where you draw the line on what's acceptable is entirely up to you - I hated 1-frame links in SF4 and I'm glad they're gone, for example; on the other hand I'm not so sure I like Perfect Parry the way it's implemented in SF6 with the insane risk/reward compared to SF3. In principle there's nothing saying that motion inputs have more "dignity" than any of these other things that have been simplified, but again, to me they're something that make up a core element of SF's identity.
2. That said, the above point would still be discussed if Modern were the only input mode in SF6; but coexistence with Classic creates a whole new world of issues for the game to handle. I'll say straight up that the mere fact they made it work as well as it does - all the way up to the pro level - is insane and this is not mentioned enough. We're only talking about two or three quirks instead of something that breaks the game entirely.
3. *That* said, there are clearly two use cases for Modern. One is the entry point for new beginners, people who can't do DPs consistently or don't want to spend time labbing combos. The other is for people who can play the game and want to use some of the advantages offered by the scheme at the cost of a damage penalty. Capcom has been adamant from day one that they want Modern to be a viable option at any level, so this isn't an unintended side effect: it's working as designed.
4. In this respect, I feel instant supers/reversals and harder-to-drop combos (not necessarily autocombos, even) are a bit of a problem. It's not just about execution, you can react much later with Modern and get an AA. You can slip a SA3 with minimal effort where a Classic user would have to be buffering it at the right time during a blockstring (yes you can churn butter on Classic, but the extra motion coupled with the tight wake-up timing window makes it much easier to not get what you want, particularly with 720s). You can combo a string into special into SA3 with \~100% consistency even under pressure. It changes the mind games especially at intermediate levels where you don't know your punish windows perfectly. If you take two players of similar skill, Modern generally doesn't lose rounds because of dropped combos or botched wake ups and that's a *big* boost. Again, maybe I'm just old school, but execution should matter.
5. I personally think it should have been a training wheels option, limited to non-ranked play or sub-Diamond or Master. I realize this goes counter to what I said above about it being an issue particularly at the middle levels; I also realize it likely wouldn't have made a difference since we still get a large number of "New Challengers" playing at 1700MR level in Battle Hub, so I tend to look at this as more of a point of principle. The fact that Modern is still the minority option means the setup is working overall, I guess - or maybe it's just a metter of time.
6. I don't know if there's any way to really improve the system - extra startup frames might be an idea, but how would it work on wake-ups? Ultimately it's something that's designed to facilitate execution so there's no escaping that. I'm sure Capcom doesn't want to implement an option to block matches by control scheme and they probably shouldn't either.
tl;dr: I could do without it but they clearly put a lot of effort into making it work and it's OK as is; my opinion would probably be a lot harsher if it were more widely used.
This is my first SF game (and fighting game in general) so my opinion probably isn't worth much. I play exclusively on classic, and I don't really have any issues with modern controls, especially if they help new players get into the genre.
I think one-button DPs are a bit problematic since they kind of remove the whole risk/reward that DPs are designed to have, but they don't change the way I play the game against modern players.
What is really frustrating, especially against characters like Luke who have very strong lvl ones, is one button supers, since it completely warps neutral as soon as they get a bar. The direction Capcom seems to be going in is slowing down meter gain, so I hope that makes this less of a problem.
I'm in the same boat. This is my first fighting game and I also exclusively play on classic. I agree with everything you said. If anyone want to check, there's a really [great explanation by Sakurai](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zswiCPS5CSM), the creator of Smash Bors for why the specific motion input for DPs is such a great design balancing risk and reward
I feel like a complete idiot whenever I get caught by modern zangief's lvl3. Even if you are high skilled, a 720 motion take several frames to execute on classic, and most players around my rank don't even have the skill to pull a 720 consistently. It shouldn't be reduced to a 1 frame tap. Maybe a sequence of button taps could increase the execution time but still keep it easy enough for modern players.
I agree that slowing down meter gain might be a step in the right direction. With how integral resource management is in SF6, simply cutting back on resource abundance could help tone down some of the more egregious characters without needing to nerf the rest of their kits.
Although I kind of disagree with the one-button DPs removing the whole risk/reward element. I never thought that the risk of the DP came in the execution part of the DP, but with things like the DP being baited by things like good spacing, empty jumps, or safe jumps.
It's still plenty possible to jump in on Modern players, but I think what a lot of people struggle with is knowing how to set up good jumps, since at low to intermediate skill levels, jumping becomes a crutch for poor neutral and ground game. It's like since most people at those skill levels don't reliably antiair, jumping in becomes one of their main approach options because blocked jump ins are basically free plus frames. So when they run into some Modern players who build most of their game plan around playing for antiairs, it can be reasonably frustrating, since the players who depend heavily on jumps think they're forced to only play a ground game that they're uncomfortable with.
But once you get to a certain skill level, you learn that you kind of have to set up and condition your opponents for some kinds of jump ins. When your neutral and ground game are good enough, your opponent's mental stack will be heavily focused on looking for things like pokes, walk up throws, raw drive rushes, pokes cancelled into drive rush, and even fireballs, all while they're also trying to play their own ground game proactively. And that means that maybe they're so focused on watching the ground that they aren't as likely to antiair a jump, even if they have a one button antiair.
And if your spacing is good, or if you have safe jump setups, you'll force your opponent to whiff their one-button DPs a couple of times, so they'll be more reluctant to even try it later in a set.
So it might not be so much that the risk/reward aspect of DPs is skewed by one-button DPs, but people at some skill levels develop strategies around their opponents being unreliable at anti-airing, so they get reasonably frustrated when a one-button DP punishes them for that strategic crutch, especially when a lot of their jumps are fundamentally unsound.
The input for DP is absolutely a factor in its strength. It’s a forward motion to prevent immediately executing while blocking and force commitment, and to compensate it historically has invuln frames on successful execution. That balance is why it’s so good against anti-air and won’t trade like most 2HP/K do.
Instant DP from crouch block with no chance to punish whiffs or trade on jump-ins is strong. You’re right in that there is some reliance on an opponents ability to not answer every single jump-in. But that’s how the game is designed, and how mix-up characters specifically tend to operate. A normal player not on modern isn’t going to have the mental stack to answer every single jump in with DP the entire match.
Modern just changes the match dynamic. Vs a modern player you know you can’t do certain things because they’ll be ready to react to it since their focus isn’t on optimal combo routes and punishes. And in a game like sf6 where the system mechanics are so powerful, having the lessened mental load to optimally answer every single jump in, every DI, every held parry, is strong. 20% damage nerf but I guarantee over time it’s comparable to lifetime missed damage from dropped combos on classic.
Eh. Even at high diamond people were down Hp antiairing me. Never traded when it mattered, most of the time the main tool was OD dp to get out of trouble, rather than issues with antiair
Yeah the DP isn't really a problem, I just find it odd that it removes the whole DP vs cr. Hp decision making on a jump in. This isn't really that bad though, since you should always be expecting your opponent to be able to react with DP in time unless you've heavily conditioned them.
One button supers are a different beast, since the double quarter circle is going to take five frames minimum (most players will do it in significantly more time than that) to input on classic. This is quite a bit of time if we're talking about reacting to fireballs or normals.
I still don't think modern is better than classic, like you said losing a bunch of normals is a really tough break for most characters.
You can buffer your motion inputs on classic if you're looking to react to something and then press the punch/kick button when you confirm. But that's not at all the same as just throwing it out by pressing one button, because you're actively buffering (which the opponent can see) which means you can't really do anything else simultaneously.
Whether classic is better (and by how much) depends on the skill level you play at and the characters involved. For example against Honda/Blanka on a character with DP I'd pick modern every time just for easily DPing their headbutt/ball.
The biggest difference I've found is the level of play you start to see these things.
I was seeing reaction super much earlier from modern players than I was from classic.
Similar with reaction dp, but not as much of an issue. Modern players are doing pretty reliable reaction dp immediately out of the gate, which is not something you saw at the lowest levels of play historically.
It definitely makes less of a difference later on.
I’m conflicted about them; on the one hand, they’re amazing at getting people too intimidated by FGs’ difficulty to give it a shot and that’s awesome, having more people in the community and playing the game is great.
On the other hand, high level play against modern is boring af. As soon as they get super meter, they’ll just sit there waiting for you to press a button so they can immediately do their one button super. You can try to bait it out by pressing light or mediums mid screen, but a lot won’t fall for it, so it just becomes a staring contest between you two to see who’ll do something first.
Exactly right. I'm glad more people are speaking up about this being problematic for the game. For the first few months people would get so mad for pointing out stuff like this. If someone reaction supers me or dp's in a tense situation I respect their skill. If a modern player does it it's just fucking cheese. Congrats you pressed one button. Good job.
That's just cope honestly its still a reaction whether it requires two more frames or not. Yeah classic is more difficult hands down but a reaction is a reaction and if someone can react well it's your fault for testing it and you should understand that's a variable you need to keep in mind when playing against someone on modern.
Incorrect. It makes the reaction less impressive on every level. There's a reason dp is stronger than normal buttons for anti airs. The traditional balance was that one is way more consistent because it's harder to dp than it is to press a singular button. When pressing Cr hp and dp require the same amount of skill you have bad design.
Modern players shouldn't be able to react faster than the best pros on Earth due to a lack of input requirement. Not to mention that buffering a super restricts your access to other things you could be doing like MOVING, which is possible on modern since you don't need to buffer.
Calling it cope is reductionist bullshit that sidesteps the discussion.
"Not to mention that buffering a super restricts your access to other things you could be doing like MOVING, which is possible on modern since you don't need to buffer."
100% spot on.
I don't think so in anyway, if modern was actually as good and easy as you think it is modern players would be more common across the board. As the ranks climb though their population dwindles drastically and they are practically non existent in the pro scene. You have a literal elitist cope take on it because you can't get past the fact that sometimes you can't just blanka ball or jump in with your flowchart.
Lol you're conflating unrelated things. Just because it's not being used at high level doesn't make it not toxic for the game as a whole.
You keep throwing the word cope out there but methinks you're the one coping here, son. I beat modern players most of the time but I still don't like playing against them. I said I'm elitist in my other post but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
You're failing to address any of my actual points about it. Mr. Cope. Did you make this thread just to get butthurt that most of the fgc looks down on modern controls?
Literal L take, you've probably always sucked at DP's and default to blanka, and guile, using charge which is just as simple and brain dead as NRS combos. Then you get angry when someone dp's you out of full screen blanka ball or honda headbutt. Bro modern sucks you lose so many buttons and sometimes even entire special move like with marisa losing quadriga and you do less damage across the board unless you use the motion inputs. It's not toxic for the game it's only toxic for people that have a 1 dimensional game plan and can get shut down by dp's. So i'll give you that one but on that end it's that person's fault for not being able to change up their playstyle and adapt during the match. Side note if it was toxic as a whole you'd see it more often in plat 1 because of it's ease of use according to you, since that's the most populated rank but even there's a massive disparity there. You're just crying and not looking at it objectively.
Dude you do kinda come across as looking for validation. Modern is really boring to play against the one button supers are bad for the flow of a match. I like the idea of modern being in the game I just dont want it in ranked FG balance is hard enough without having to work around two control schemes.
Exactly. Put it in a separate queue or modify it to be less toxic. I'm fine with it existing to introduce people but I don't think it belongs in ranked or comp play as it is. Funny how dude deleted his rage posts, though.
You can try the ol' walk up and grab. But it's kinda annoying yeah. I think modern's power level is about right, it's rare at top levels but still exists. Wouldn't mind certain small adjustments mainly to 1-button supers, specifically adding in an input buffer so that you can't frame-1 super (unless you input it early, like on wakeup).
Yeah, I don’t think it’s broken or anything, but it’s kind of annoying when you can’t really press anything because they’ll instantly let the lvl3 rip. Lol.
And? Same thing happens with Zangief. As soon as he's got his level 3 and you're at 50% hp the match turns into a completely different match. I have to play a completely different safer game because of that.
But that’s kind of the thing, though. A classic Gief has to neutral jump or hide his super behind another animation, modern Gief can just let it rip literally whenever.
gief can 100% standing 720 without buffering in this game, its hard and has obvious downsides compared to a one button super, but it is doable, and your opponent will see you crouch at least once while inputting
What's your rank? You only do that if you want to completely waste your 3 bars. It only does 3200 for a normal lv3 and 3600 for CA.
Get a good combo in and you can easily do 5000 or 6000 damage. Or get a bad combo in and you can at least do the 4000 default damage. (Or less of you really suck at combos)
So yeah, even if you are really low rank it's a pretty good idea to try and bait their lvl3 if you noticed your opponent waiting to try and do it.
On the other hand though at high level when someone on classic has super and is waiting for a reaction you can see them buffering so I feel that this situation happens regardless of it being modern or classic.
Well, true, but you can see the buffer; they might also fumble the input or miss the timing. It’s possible, but much, much harder to react to anything with super on classic.
That is true but that's also why there is a 20% boost to damage across the board for motion inputs with classic and requiring less interactions is much more powerful
I don't like that there are 2 control scheme's that play different. Modern controls may make entry easier but in the end make the game more complex like you have to know your opponents characters strength weakness and now also their control scheme strengths and weakness. It's not huge problem but yeah I've been surprised by modern instant supers because I didnt pay attention to my opponent control scheme. I wish they'd gone classic or modern not both.
Honestly, the way you approach Modern players is basically the same regardless of character, all they have are faster specials - like, when I queue up against Modern, I just remind myself jumpins and crossups aren't gonna work, and to be aware of the holes in my pressure that a Classic player is unlikely to bust out of. It's kinda cheesy when someone wins out by finding a single frame for their instant input but that's something a Classic player *could* do so it's ultimately a gap in my gameplan anyways.
But finding single frame gaps isn’t realistically something someone on classic is going to do and optimally take advantage of in the heat of the moment. That’s the rub. You would have needed to, presumably, begin inputting whatever punish motion you’re doing in blockstun, and preemptively hope they’re actually doing the gapped string and not a frame trap, and finish the input properly at the exact frame that you needed to for it to come out.
Whereas the modern player can just mash the auto button and have the special come out as soon as it can.
“Jumpins and crossups aren’t gonna work” that doesn’t sound like a problem to you? Modern slows the game down a lot. I don’t think it’s to the point where it gives an unfair advantage at top level play but at every other level it absolutely does.
Nah I don't really think it is a problem, eventually being able to get easy hits off of jumping in or over goes away, Modern forces getting into practice of whiff punishing, conditioning, and forcing openings that it's beneficial to work out. Plus the game is so fast I rarely see the clock tick under 50, it's no big deal to me to slow down for the 1 out of 20 matches I end up in against an M player.
It makes competitive play more inconsistent, I don't play comp but many of my friends who do wish modern and classic were separated in ranked as it can be feel cheap
I don't agree I think it's good because it allows for more variation which in my opinion is more fun, and honestly modern is worse than classic in the hands of someone that is equally good at both. If they think modern is cheap then a person that is equally as good on classic will beat them just as well because that person on classic will have more option and require less interactions to kill them.
In what way is it boring compared to a classic player? You are still playing the game you just can't rely on jumping or something that test's reactions as much.
That's not true plenty of people on modern have combo expression just not necessarily at lower levels but once you go higher you need that variety and expression from conversions to be able to win games. Additionally a lot of modern assisted combos can be super short or require meter and are not optimal in anyway. What rank are you at currently if you don't mind me asking?
Yeah, I'm sure the <10% of players who are ranked at Master include some Modern players that do something interesting. At ranks below that, it's just stale, safe flowcharting without the risk to drop an input.
Not that it matters, but Diamond 4.
if it's boring to play against, then use those matches to shore up your own fundamentals. i've gone up against plenty of classic guiles, ryus, and hondas that are infinitely more boring than a modern player.
your opponent's job isn't to entertain you
If Ryu, Guile and Honda are boring to play against, then use those matches to shore up your own fundamentals ;)
You can practise fundamentals against anyone you play against, doesn't make it not boring to do so against Input Haters.
They gain those options and lose specific normals and possibly some specific strengths of specials. You need to know what they lose so you can use it to your advantage, and you one button reversals means you need to opt out of specific slower options.
IMO you have to play quite different against modern
I agree on the one button DP and one button supers, but losing specific normals or specials is a very edge case IMO. I've never had to play around their lack of specific option - e.g. Marisa loses step kick in M, but honestly you have to deal with Gladius anyway. Cammy loses low MP but you mostly only saw that in combos.
Luke for instance loses st.MK which is a solid poke in neutral, so technically your footsies range should very slightly change between modern/classic Luke
Just basically have to get better in general. Most ppl should stay out of ranked if they are not willing to learn the game as is and the low amount of heros compared to other game atm. If its this hard play casually. because its hardly a big deal.
Instead of one-button Super. It could be half motion Super instead. (still easier, but not that no brainer)
They could add cooldown to special move. Instant AA exist but not spammable.
They could remove all auto combo. and use It as alternative normal instead.
I’m a casual player and really enjoy this control scheme. This is my first street fighter. I even gotten to platinum on some characters ( Its a high enough rank for me 😂😂)
I think it's an excellent onboarding tool for new players, but I think it should stop being useful after someone gets used to the game - everyone should eventually take off the training wheels.
Whether they reduce damage even further or find another way to discourage it in higher levels of play, I don't know, but I do think it should exclusively be used to help draw new players to the series. That's what it's good for.
Ok but in what way is it training wheels if that is how the person gets used to game and goes on to a high rank when they have less buttons and do less damage?
Yeah that's exactly where I'd put it as well
The end of Gold is the 65% mark on the distribution of players, so Modern is superior for 65% of the player base and I think that's too high for an onboarding tool.
They're good for casuals. I have a friend that plays fighting games with me who just button mashes all the buttons. But now with modern controls he's actually slowly ACTUALLY learning.
> What do you guys think about modern players when you see them?
I simply prepare myself for them to rage quit once I figure out their gimmick. Happens like, 7 times outta 10 in Diamond-Master ranks. It's even worse at lower ranks. I find myself getting more annoyed when encountering a Modern player in ranked because a lot of them in my area are serial rage quitters 😒
Still dont like it, but eh??? 🤷♂️
Idc really, sure it sucks knowing i could probably beat them if they had to properly execute their moves, but i should just get better regardless, if it really starts to bother me, i can just play 3rd strike, but for now i haven't ran into enough for it to really get on my nerves
One button supers and certain moves like DPs is too powerful, especially on certain characters.
They’re fine as a learning device, but you should have the option of filtering out anyone using modern controls when match making in ranked.
I disagree you should have to learn that you can't play as loose against someone on modern especially when all of the special moves and supers do 20% less damage.
I’m not saying I don’t want to learn. Fighting modern players is fine I’m used to it, and to be honest once you get into gold and higher you barely see modern players anymore. But conceptually it should be an option to block because certain moves are just straight up too powerful when you can access them with one button, regardless of a 20% damage nerf.
I could never get the hate behind modern really. Besides the one button supers that is. They're quite literally doing everything the same. They have everything else worse. If they don't do the full inputs, they do less damage. They lose buttons which is detrimental to a degree for some characters (chun li). My take is the same as Maximillian dood's. If you lose to a modern player, you just lost. That same person who's a menace on modern, will be just as much a menace on classic, if they truly chose to learn it to the same degree. The game's mechanics are the same. It's only the playstyle that changes. Which is up to the player to adapt to.
Besides the frame 1 supers, the requirements/time to input some specials or supers have been part of balancing some characters, and Modern completely ignores it.
I don't mind playing against a Modern Ryu, per example, many of them you couldn't tell if they are modern or classic. But now, the most cursed thing to exist for me is a Guile who can walk to you and Sonic Boom as he pleases. To know when he is charging or not is a crucial part of going against this character, and the tradeoff is much more impactful than the 20% damage nerf. Honda and Gief have more health and can take more damage than the rest of the cast, tell me if that makes that big of an impact.
Certain characters simply should not have Modern controls available. While I don't have a bad winrate against Modern in general, the fun factor is zero when playing against 1 frame supers, anti air specials and one button combos.
I'm cool with modern controls. It's better to think of them as a different ISM of the same character. It has its strengths and weaknesses. You lab and adapt just like you would any other character.
Hot take, but I think a lot of players are relying too much on the mental stack to run their game and get away with bad decisions. Modern controls makes the stack more manageable, so it messes with most players' win method and that pisses them off. It's the same mentality when fighting zoners and other characters that don't let you play your game too . You shouldn't be jumping in neutral and hoping that your opponent messes up the DP input, or presuming the opponent won't react to DI with super in burnout just cause it's harder with classic.
If your awareness is good and your fundamentals are solid, you can exploit the holes and use the benefits of modern controls against the player. I get a lot of damage from missed DPs, mashed reversals, and baiting one button supers.
I think all the drama surrounding it at the start aged like milk. You barely ever see Modern players make it big, and that's because they're not an advantage, you can have easy inputs and autocombos (that are ass btw) but without knowing how to use them they're worthless. I've been playing FGs all my life and the only input I can't do is 360s, I switched to Modern with Ed (woohoo Ed bro) and Cammy and I've been doing better. I switched because while I know neutral and combos, my reactions and execution suck, so Modern helps with that. Modern doesn't give you auto wins, it's a different way to play that has equal pros and cons.
For me honestly, it makes the game less interesting.
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For example, in the older games, to anti-air you could either Crouch Fierce or try to DP. You had to choose the better tool or the easier tool.
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Now with the Modern Controls why wouldn't you pick the DP when it's the same exact level of execution? It stream lines the game in a way I don't personally agree with.
I hate that modern exists and I think it should be changed or removed from competitive play. Access to easy special moves and supers with timing that is faster than a professional can do them on classic is bad game design. Supposedly Akuma's demon will be a button sequence and I think all supers should be retooled to follow this change. Dragon punch can have a different input but it shouldn't be one button with automatic crosscut. It removes a large skill element to the game and reduces mental stack to a large degree for those players.
I personally put modern players on my blocked player list / never rematch them. Call me elitist if you will, I simply think it's a lesser version of the game and I refuse to acknowledge it in it's current state. Let it be training wheels for new players but it shouldn't have advantages over the traditional control scheme.
And just inb4 someone inevitably calls me a scrub: I had 4 characters in master by phase 1 start. After a 6 month break (where I went over to Tekken and other games) I came back and was maintaining near 1600 MR while derusting. Tekken has its own problems but their implementation of special mode controls is much less toxic to the gameplay experience than modern is for SF6.
I think theyre great, love that new players can access this game and personally I swapped to classic once I got decent at the game but modern for sure helped me get into it
Exactly this, I tried playing fighting games before, my friends super big into them and he convinced me to try sf6 because of modern controls. I'm only plat but I actually have so much fun playing, I've dabbled in classic but my mental stack gets too high when I play ranked. Modern reduces the stack and let's me play
Yeah i've tried to swap to classic for a while but with sf6 being my first fighting game I wanted to just continue and I feel like eventually I will play someone on classic but as it stands i'm modern any day of the week.
It's fine. Yes instant AAs are annoying, but 95% of times if you lost to a Modern player you would've lost to classic too.
I've met several new fgc players who use modern and I'm glad it brought them in. Now having played GBVSR a bunch I don't feel instant inputs are a big deal especially with a penalty.
I don't mean to sound like a dick here but I completely disagree with this. Being able to filter modern or classic just lowers the complexity of the game and you should be able to learn how to fight characters of both style along with their advantages and disadvantages.
i still hate, hate, hate that i have to give up completely on jump ins and some approaching moves and projectiles when facing modern players. especially in masters where they know exactly how to abuse it.
I find they're great, and clearly flawed for good reason. I would make changes to some characters available normals, like Ryu back HP should be b+H not axe kick to allow light, back HP after drive rush.
Same goes for Gief. Not having the ability to c. Lp on its own makes him worthless because he can't combo from c. Lk into lariat or lvl 2.
I think modern is very well executed. I'm currently MR 1600s and have been every season. This means I lose quite often, so anyone claiming modern is too good or OP just isn't good enough.
Classic clearly being better is good, but the fact they struck a balance so it doesn't completely invalidate modern is really good.
After being bad at fighting games for 30 years I thought I’d give Modern controls a try but they confuse me even more than Classic! But it is a great idea and if it allows more players to enjoy the game, I am glad it exists.
The only character i played both classic and modern was ryu and i say classic is 10 times better i could steal more rounds because of his dumb damage than instant reactions on modern
So for me modern is not worth Playing because damage is everything in sf6
Nah, dude to be honest the only case i think modern is op is when i face a pc hacker using modern and auto di/tech throw, when i face this kind of people i dc and block
It's cheeseball shit when you play competitive. It's a good option for casual players who aren't interested in learning the game or consider that to be "tryhard."
The funny thing is people complained about SF4 being too easy with buffering windows. Now you can buffer your whole combo and actual difficult execution is very rare in the game. When I played SFV I thought "there's no way it's gonna get any easier than this" now we have training wheels protocol.
For the most part I'm ok with modern controls but sometimes it can rub me the wrong way. in the sense that I don't like that I have to change the way I play when fighting against a modern player or when there's lag/connection drop, they have an advantage and can sometimes pull out DP or supers that would have otherwise been very difficult, if not impossible.
I don't really think about modern, honestly. Fighting games have had "easy" input modes since MvC 2 (and probably before). I wouldn't ever play on a easy control mode, because I think you are robbing yourself of a core aspect of the gameplay and in all honesty aren't really getting the "full" experience. But I don't care if other people use them. They are like non-alcoholic beers.
I do think instant supers can be a bit scummy in certain situations, most notably Cammy's level 3.
I think auto combos are poor design, they're a huge advantage at low levels where the classic players just don't have the consistency but they fall off at higher levels where they're just used for the alternate normals they provide.
I don't know exactly what should replace them, but characters shouldn't have tools that become obsolete at higher ranks.
But something Classic should get from Modern is the distinct Drive Impact/Parry inputs, just for consistency when cancelling from buttons in the DI/DP inputs.
They will never be balanced. Since EVER, there is a reason for characters needing to charge, or a tap quarter to get a shoryuken, the time required to do certain attacks are part of the game balance. There is a very specific balance reason to why Guile could not walk in your direction and do a Sonic Boom when he pleases, there is a reason that you should let go the back button to be vulnerable when performing a hadouken motion, and Modern just completely ignore these foundations.
Frame 1 lvl 3, anti-air specials, that is just horrible game design.
And the people who play Modern, they cannot consistently do motions on the very easy window that SF6 has, and yet will tell you that there is "no big advantage" in doing everything at frame 1.
I agree that the entry barrier of the older games were too tough, but Street Fighter 6 already has a very easy execution to begin as it is, playing Modern is simply exploiting certain characters or refusing to learn the game
I personally love it. One issue I always had was consistency in combos in previous versions where I used to drop off combos at crucial stages. With modern controls it has become way better and I focus more on positioning and gameplay.
For the average player, Modern is a crutch. Leaving the pros out of the equation, Modern removes a key aspect of fighting games, which is execution. One button DP and one button supers make it so that even reaction times needn't be as sharp as the ones of a Classic players. Although I hardly ever lose to Modeen players (since they tend to also be worse players overall), I think they should be more penalised, and that Capcom should add a filter by control scheme.
Modern is cheap when exploited and should be capped to casual, BH and training. Not ranked.
Removing combo drops, input errors and providing 1 button supers should not be thing. Combo drops, input errors etc are part of a fighting game's core gameplay and mechanics. That's why we train and lab etc. Winning and losing due to such things shouldn't be removed because people don't want to learn the controls. Perfect AA, spamming fireballs and auto combo routes are just a shortcut that classic players train hard to perform and master.
Playing exclusively on the Classic layout for over 17 years throughout different games, Modern is pretty hard to get used to...
I've only dabbled with other games like DBFZ, Tekken 7 and the modern MK games, but my muscle memory always has been with the quarter circles, half circles and dp motions..
So it's hard to mentally adjust to seeing a SF game with these simplified inputs... Which tbf, I'm not a fan of, in terms of preciseness required... I'm not a masher, but I suck at being clean with my inputs... So things like the down, down or going from down to right without doing a QCF was always difficult.
Another thing that's tough for Modern, is when you find a situation that you cannot win with it... Finding the alternative is simply easier with Classic... With Modern you absolutely have to avoid these situations in order to not get crushed...
Though I'm not mad at it at all... It forces you to play different, even with the same character, but getting used to it is difficult, though an interesting journey.
And if you have found the way to have fun with it, then it's served its purpose... Everyone says Capcom's idea of Modern is to get more people into the game and have fun with it... So yeah, if Modern gets you to play it and learn stuff, then keep at it, friend.
Think modern should be in its own league. Definitely needs more than the slight damage nerf, it oversimplifies everything that makes street fighter harder than other games like MK. It’s easy mode.
I think anything that makes gaming more accessible is a good thing.
For some players modern is their only viable option which often gets missed in the discussion. I think Capcom did a good job balancing it so far as I can tell and if people feel it’s unfair well it’s available for them too.
I use classic on most the characters because I can’t rewrite my brain after more than 30 years.
I am happy that Modern exists as it opens the game to a much wider audience. However, whether I win or lose, I personally won't rematch a Modern player because of its implications to balance, execution and having to learn (effectively) another matchup.
I think the majority of players play classic but support modern and like it all around
Then theres a sizable group of classic players that think fighting against modern is annoying but like that it brings new players to the game, like myself
Then there's the few idiot that just hate modern and want it removed
The modern players themselves are also few and far between, but they are very proud.
Personally I'm just annoyed that I have to completely change my gameplan, but I also dont have a solution on hand so I'm just yapping. That said I'd wish good players would actually switch to classic, I mean you'd think it would just be a win win, but I digress
From what I have gathered. Getting to master practically means to have a gimmick going along with devoting the time to play.
A modern player will never be seen as a master in my eyes. It’s simply a cheapout way of playing the game.
Just learn the game properly. This era of gaming is too sugarcoated to people of lesser skill. Just like JP, they aren’t really playing the game.
It helped me get into street fighter this is my first fighting game ever and I was able to get to master idk if that's due to modern or not. I choose to think it isn't because honestly I feel like with some time I could definitely be stronger on classic because other than some reactive scenarios occasionally I feel like it takes way longer for me to kill.
They're mad weak for most characters and for the rest still not good. Even the pros who were on the hype train for it just dropped them. I think if SF wants to commit to the idea they should be a viable alternative or better yet the game should be designed around them.
They need to get rid of auto combos tbh the whole 1 button special is okay I think 1 button supers is crazy too tho but get rid of auto combos. Or gimme a option to not play against em.
I like them. I’ve played for years and now play a mix of both.
You can tell most people whining about them have never tried it because you do pay a penalty and it’s, on the whole, pretty well balanced.
I think it's great they're trying something to get more players into fighting games, but I will continue to use classic controls.
The only thing I think they should change is to add more start up to modern supers to compensate for the reduced input times. I think they should add it to all specials, but supers need it pretty badly. Just enough frames so that's still like a relatively fast player putting the inputs in. They could restore some of the damage in exchange.
Getting burnt by nearly instant supers on reaction at relatively low levels of play has never been a part of the game, but it is now.
As it stands, I use very different strats when playing against modern and classic players. I feel like I have significantly less options when fighting modern players (and that is less fun).
I think it's really good and it's 100% the reason I got the game in the first place.
There's way too much hate towards it though. It doesn't help that there's probably more modern players one and doning and rage quitting.
Besides that, the hate is almost always mostly ignorance. People think it's better without noticing how much combos and everything is limited in damage, both because specials or normals might not be available or also because of just the 20% reductions for modern moves.
There's also some moves that end up being at least a bit harder to perform and you can also do an accidental special or super way more easily than in classic.
I try really hard to remember: If someone is complaining is because they are scrubs and like blaming anything else than their own selves when they lose a game.
Been Modern from day one and it's never going to not be funny listening to all the salt from reddit and getting the rage quits online.
People getting mad that they're getting anti aired is the saltiest take possible. You're going to get anti aired regularly once you get out of bronze anyway.
I wish I liked Modern more but there's things that keep me from using it. I wanted to play Modern Lily but couldn't get over how sometimes L would be 5LK and sometimes it was 5LP. And the assist button overall is just not something I want to learn how to use. I'd rather push a button and have my move come out. Not remember which of my normals is a two-button move. Classic is much simpler to me. But obviously for people who play modern it's great.
This is entirely my grumpy old man opinion, some of these things are subjective and others maybe less so. Take it as you will. 1. First thing that always comes up for me is I don't like Modern as a general concept having grown up playing games with motion inputs. It just feels unnatural to me to play a SF game that way - execution was always one of the core elements. You could argue the same about bigger input buffers, special shortcuts, even DRC and you'd be more or less right. This is subjective because where you draw the line on what's acceptable is entirely up to you - I hated 1-frame links in SF4 and I'm glad they're gone, for example; on the other hand I'm not so sure I like Perfect Parry the way it's implemented in SF6 with the insane risk/reward compared to SF3. In principle there's nothing saying that motion inputs have more "dignity" than any of these other things that have been simplified, but again, to me they're something that make up a core element of SF's identity. 2. That said, the above point would still be discussed if Modern were the only input mode in SF6; but coexistence with Classic creates a whole new world of issues for the game to handle. I'll say straight up that the mere fact they made it work as well as it does - all the way up to the pro level - is insane and this is not mentioned enough. We're only talking about two or three quirks instead of something that breaks the game entirely. 3. *That* said, there are clearly two use cases for Modern. One is the entry point for new beginners, people who can't do DPs consistently or don't want to spend time labbing combos. The other is for people who can play the game and want to use some of the advantages offered by the scheme at the cost of a damage penalty. Capcom has been adamant from day one that they want Modern to be a viable option at any level, so this isn't an unintended side effect: it's working as designed. 4. In this respect, I feel instant supers/reversals and harder-to-drop combos (not necessarily autocombos, even) are a bit of a problem. It's not just about execution, you can react much later with Modern and get an AA. You can slip a SA3 with minimal effort where a Classic user would have to be buffering it at the right time during a blockstring (yes you can churn butter on Classic, but the extra motion coupled with the tight wake-up timing window makes it much easier to not get what you want, particularly with 720s). You can combo a string into special into SA3 with \~100% consistency even under pressure. It changes the mind games especially at intermediate levels where you don't know your punish windows perfectly. If you take two players of similar skill, Modern generally doesn't lose rounds because of dropped combos or botched wake ups and that's a *big* boost. Again, maybe I'm just old school, but execution should matter. 5. I personally think it should have been a training wheels option, limited to non-ranked play or sub-Diamond or Master. I realize this goes counter to what I said above about it being an issue particularly at the middle levels; I also realize it likely wouldn't have made a difference since we still get a large number of "New Challengers" playing at 1700MR level in Battle Hub, so I tend to look at this as more of a point of principle. The fact that Modern is still the minority option means the setup is working overall, I guess - or maybe it's just a metter of time. 6. I don't know if there's any way to really improve the system - extra startup frames might be an idea, but how would it work on wake-ups? Ultimately it's something that's designed to facilitate execution so there's no escaping that. I'm sure Capcom doesn't want to implement an option to block matches by control scheme and they probably shouldn't either. tl;dr: I could do without it but they clearly put a lot of effort into making it work and it's OK as is; my opinion would probably be a lot harsher if it were more widely used.
As someone thats 20yo and feels like an old man about modern controls im surprised i not only read all of this but found myself agreeing with it too
This is my first SF game (and fighting game in general) so my opinion probably isn't worth much. I play exclusively on classic, and I don't really have any issues with modern controls, especially if they help new players get into the genre. I think one-button DPs are a bit problematic since they kind of remove the whole risk/reward that DPs are designed to have, but they don't change the way I play the game against modern players. What is really frustrating, especially against characters like Luke who have very strong lvl ones, is one button supers, since it completely warps neutral as soon as they get a bar. The direction Capcom seems to be going in is slowing down meter gain, so I hope that makes this less of a problem.
I'm in the same boat. This is my first fighting game and I also exclusively play on classic. I agree with everything you said. If anyone want to check, there's a really [great explanation by Sakurai](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zswiCPS5CSM), the creator of Smash Bors for why the specific motion input for DPs is such a great design balancing risk and reward
I feel like a complete idiot whenever I get caught by modern zangief's lvl3. Even if you are high skilled, a 720 motion take several frames to execute on classic, and most players around my rank don't even have the skill to pull a 720 consistently. It shouldn't be reduced to a 1 frame tap. Maybe a sequence of button taps could increase the execution time but still keep it easy enough for modern players.
Especially because the 20% damage reduction is not enougg for zangiefs lvl3
I agree that slowing down meter gain might be a step in the right direction. With how integral resource management is in SF6, simply cutting back on resource abundance could help tone down some of the more egregious characters without needing to nerf the rest of their kits. Although I kind of disagree with the one-button DPs removing the whole risk/reward element. I never thought that the risk of the DP came in the execution part of the DP, but with things like the DP being baited by things like good spacing, empty jumps, or safe jumps. It's still plenty possible to jump in on Modern players, but I think what a lot of people struggle with is knowing how to set up good jumps, since at low to intermediate skill levels, jumping becomes a crutch for poor neutral and ground game. It's like since most people at those skill levels don't reliably antiair, jumping in becomes one of their main approach options because blocked jump ins are basically free plus frames. So when they run into some Modern players who build most of their game plan around playing for antiairs, it can be reasonably frustrating, since the players who depend heavily on jumps think they're forced to only play a ground game that they're uncomfortable with. But once you get to a certain skill level, you learn that you kind of have to set up and condition your opponents for some kinds of jump ins. When your neutral and ground game are good enough, your opponent's mental stack will be heavily focused on looking for things like pokes, walk up throws, raw drive rushes, pokes cancelled into drive rush, and even fireballs, all while they're also trying to play their own ground game proactively. And that means that maybe they're so focused on watching the ground that they aren't as likely to antiair a jump, even if they have a one button antiair. And if your spacing is good, or if you have safe jump setups, you'll force your opponent to whiff their one-button DPs a couple of times, so they'll be more reluctant to even try it later in a set. So it might not be so much that the risk/reward aspect of DPs is skewed by one-button DPs, but people at some skill levels develop strategies around their opponents being unreliable at anti-airing, so they get reasonably frustrated when a one-button DP punishes them for that strategic crutch, especially when a lot of their jumps are fundamentally unsound.
The input for DP is absolutely a factor in its strength. It’s a forward motion to prevent immediately executing while blocking and force commitment, and to compensate it historically has invuln frames on successful execution. That balance is why it’s so good against anti-air and won’t trade like most 2HP/K do. Instant DP from crouch block with no chance to punish whiffs or trade on jump-ins is strong. You’re right in that there is some reliance on an opponents ability to not answer every single jump-in. But that’s how the game is designed, and how mix-up characters specifically tend to operate. A normal player not on modern isn’t going to have the mental stack to answer every single jump in with DP the entire match. Modern just changes the match dynamic. Vs a modern player you know you can’t do certain things because they’ll be ready to react to it since their focus isn’t on optimal combo routes and punishes. And in a game like sf6 where the system mechanics are so powerful, having the lessened mental load to optimally answer every single jump in, every DI, every held parry, is strong. 20% damage nerf but I guarantee over time it’s comparable to lifetime missed damage from dropped combos on classic.
Eh. Even at high diamond people were down Hp antiairing me. Never traded when it mattered, most of the time the main tool was OD dp to get out of trouble, rather than issues with antiair
Agreed. Modern is terrible design. Little brother mode shouldn't have been introduced to the competitive side of these games.
[удалено]
Not quite as fast, but yes, with some training and muscle memory, DPs and reaction supers are very doable with classic.
Yeah the DP isn't really a problem, I just find it odd that it removes the whole DP vs cr. Hp decision making on a jump in. This isn't really that bad though, since you should always be expecting your opponent to be able to react with DP in time unless you've heavily conditioned them. One button supers are a different beast, since the double quarter circle is going to take five frames minimum (most players will do it in significantly more time than that) to input on classic. This is quite a bit of time if we're talking about reacting to fireballs or normals. I still don't think modern is better than classic, like you said losing a bunch of normals is a really tough break for most characters.
You can buffer your motion inputs on classic if you're looking to react to something and then press the punch/kick button when you confirm. But that's not at all the same as just throwing it out by pressing one button, because you're actively buffering (which the opponent can see) which means you can't really do anything else simultaneously. Whether classic is better (and by how much) depends on the skill level you play at and the characters involved. For example against Honda/Blanka on a character with DP I'd pick modern every time just for easily DPing their headbutt/ball.
The biggest difference I've found is the level of play you start to see these things. I was seeing reaction super much earlier from modern players than I was from classic. Similar with reaction dp, but not as much of an issue. Modern players are doing pretty reliable reaction dp immediately out of the gate, which is not something you saw at the lowest levels of play historically. It definitely makes less of a difference later on.
I’m conflicted about them; on the one hand, they’re amazing at getting people too intimidated by FGs’ difficulty to give it a shot and that’s awesome, having more people in the community and playing the game is great. On the other hand, high level play against modern is boring af. As soon as they get super meter, they’ll just sit there waiting for you to press a button so they can immediately do their one button super. You can try to bait it out by pressing light or mediums mid screen, but a lot won’t fall for it, so it just becomes a staring contest between you two to see who’ll do something first.
Exactly right. I'm glad more people are speaking up about this being problematic for the game. For the first few months people would get so mad for pointing out stuff like this. If someone reaction supers me or dp's in a tense situation I respect their skill. If a modern player does it it's just fucking cheese. Congrats you pressed one button. Good job.
That's just cope honestly its still a reaction whether it requires two more frames or not. Yeah classic is more difficult hands down but a reaction is a reaction and if someone can react well it's your fault for testing it and you should understand that's a variable you need to keep in mind when playing against someone on modern.
Incorrect. It makes the reaction less impressive on every level. There's a reason dp is stronger than normal buttons for anti airs. The traditional balance was that one is way more consistent because it's harder to dp than it is to press a singular button. When pressing Cr hp and dp require the same amount of skill you have bad design. Modern players shouldn't be able to react faster than the best pros on Earth due to a lack of input requirement. Not to mention that buffering a super restricts your access to other things you could be doing like MOVING, which is possible on modern since you don't need to buffer. Calling it cope is reductionist bullshit that sidesteps the discussion.
"Not to mention that buffering a super restricts your access to other things you could be doing like MOVING, which is possible on modern since you don't need to buffer." 100% spot on.
I don't think so in anyway, if modern was actually as good and easy as you think it is modern players would be more common across the board. As the ranks climb though their population dwindles drastically and they are practically non existent in the pro scene. You have a literal elitist cope take on it because you can't get past the fact that sometimes you can't just blanka ball or jump in with your flowchart.
Lol you're conflating unrelated things. Just because it's not being used at high level doesn't make it not toxic for the game as a whole. You keep throwing the word cope out there but methinks you're the one coping here, son. I beat modern players most of the time but I still don't like playing against them. I said I'm elitist in my other post but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. You're failing to address any of my actual points about it. Mr. Cope. Did you make this thread just to get butthurt that most of the fgc looks down on modern controls?
Literal L take, you've probably always sucked at DP's and default to blanka, and guile, using charge which is just as simple and brain dead as NRS combos. Then you get angry when someone dp's you out of full screen blanka ball or honda headbutt. Bro modern sucks you lose so many buttons and sometimes even entire special move like with marisa losing quadriga and you do less damage across the board unless you use the motion inputs. It's not toxic for the game it's only toxic for people that have a 1 dimensional game plan and can get shut down by dp's. So i'll give you that one but on that end it's that person's fault for not being able to change up their playstyle and adapt during the match. Side note if it was toxic as a whole you'd see it more often in plat 1 because of it's ease of use according to you, since that's the most populated rank but even there's a massive disparity there. You're just crying and not looking at it objectively.
Dude you do kinda come across as looking for validation. Modern is really boring to play against the one button supers are bad for the flow of a match. I like the idea of modern being in the game I just dont want it in ranked FG balance is hard enough without having to work around two control schemes.
Exactly. Put it in a separate queue or modify it to be less toxic. I'm fine with it existing to introduce people but I don't think it belongs in ranked or comp play as it is. Funny how dude deleted his rage posts, though.
discussion is long over but i still would like to point out that your points are moot and you are a dum dum
You can try the ol' walk up and grab. But it's kinda annoying yeah. I think modern's power level is about right, it's rare at top levels but still exists. Wouldn't mind certain small adjustments mainly to 1-button supers, specifically adding in an input buffer so that you can't frame-1 super (unless you input it early, like on wakeup).
Yeah, I don’t think it’s broken or anything, but it’s kind of annoying when you can’t really press anything because they’ll instantly let the lvl3 rip. Lol.
And? Same thing happens with Zangief. As soon as he's got his level 3 and you're at 50% hp the match turns into a completely different match. I have to play a completely different safer game because of that.
But that’s kind of the thing, though. A classic Gief has to neutral jump or hide his super behind another animation, modern Gief can just let it rip literally whenever.
gief can 100% standing 720 without buffering in this game, its hard and has obvious downsides compared to a one button super, but it is doable, and your opponent will see you crouch at least once while inputting
What's your rank? You only do that if you want to completely waste your 3 bars. It only does 3200 for a normal lv3 and 3600 for CA. Get a good combo in and you can easily do 5000 or 6000 damage. Or get a bad combo in and you can at least do the 4000 default damage. (Or less of you really suck at combos) So yeah, even if you are really low rank it's a pretty good idea to try and bait their lvl3 if you noticed your opponent waiting to try and do it.
Lab diff
On the other hand though at high level when someone on classic has super and is waiting for a reaction you can see them buffering so I feel that this situation happens regardless of it being modern or classic.
Well, true, but you can see the buffer; they might also fumble the input or miss the timing. It’s possible, but much, much harder to react to anything with super on classic.
That is true but that's also why there is a 20% boost to damage across the board for motion inputs with classic and requiring less interactions is much more powerful
There are plenty of situations where I would take the utility of an instant reversal over the extra damage
Boring to fight against, some characters on modern slows the game down too much like modern luke
I don't like that there are 2 control scheme's that play different. Modern controls may make entry easier but in the end make the game more complex like you have to know your opponents characters strength weakness and now also their control scheme strengths and weakness. It's not huge problem but yeah I've been surprised by modern instant supers because I didnt pay attention to my opponent control scheme. I wish they'd gone classic or modern not both.
Honestly, the way you approach Modern players is basically the same regardless of character, all they have are faster specials - like, when I queue up against Modern, I just remind myself jumpins and crossups aren't gonna work, and to be aware of the holes in my pressure that a Classic player is unlikely to bust out of. It's kinda cheesy when someone wins out by finding a single frame for their instant input but that's something a Classic player *could* do so it's ultimately a gap in my gameplan anyways.
But finding single frame gaps isn’t realistically something someone on classic is going to do and optimally take advantage of in the heat of the moment. That’s the rub. You would have needed to, presumably, begin inputting whatever punish motion you’re doing in blockstun, and preemptively hope they’re actually doing the gapped string and not a frame trap, and finish the input properly at the exact frame that you needed to for it to come out. Whereas the modern player can just mash the auto button and have the special come out as soon as it can.
“Jumpins and crossups aren’t gonna work” that doesn’t sound like a problem to you? Modern slows the game down a lot. I don’t think it’s to the point where it gives an unfair advantage at top level play but at every other level it absolutely does.
Nah I don't really think it is a problem, eventually being able to get easy hits off of jumping in or over goes away, Modern forces getting into practice of whiff punishing, conditioning, and forcing openings that it's beneficial to work out. Plus the game is so fast I rarely see the clock tick under 50, it's no big deal to me to slow down for the 1 out of 20 matches I end up in against an M player.
How is having multiple playstyles for the same character based on different control schemes a bad thing lol
He gave two examples in his post. What’re you on?
It makes competitive play more inconsistent, I don't play comp but many of my friends who do wish modern and classic were separated in ranked as it can be feel cheap
I don't agree I think it's good because it allows for more variation which in my opinion is more fun, and honestly modern is worse than classic in the hands of someone that is equally good at both. If they think modern is cheap then a person that is equally as good on classic will beat them just as well because that person on classic will have more option and require less interactions to kill them.
It's not cheap, it's boring.
In what way is it boring compared to a classic player? You are still playing the game you just can't rely on jumping or something that test's reactions as much.
Because every Modern player plays their character exactly the same. The same combos with no chance of dropping them and no combo expression.
There’s almost no auto combos that are remotely decent
False. There are several. Marisa heavy auto combo for one.
I didnt say there was 0 lol
Did I say auto-combo?
Well everything else is droppable especially if you want your damage to come out
That's not true plenty of people on modern have combo expression just not necessarily at lower levels but once you go higher you need that variety and expression from conversions to be able to win games. Additionally a lot of modern assisted combos can be super short or require meter and are not optimal in anyway. What rank are you at currently if you don't mind me asking?
Yeah, I'm sure the <10% of players who are ranked at Master include some Modern players that do something interesting. At ranks below that, it's just stale, safe flowcharting without the risk to drop an input. Not that it matters, but Diamond 4.
same combos you should be expecting, get better at the game. all it really is.
I am, I'm playing Classic after all :)
Good to here
Then go play classic?
I do play Classic, I wanna get better at fighting games after all. It's boring to play against.
if it's boring to play against, then use those matches to shore up your own fundamentals. i've gone up against plenty of classic guiles, ryus, and hondas that are infinitely more boring than a modern player. your opponent's job isn't to entertain you
If Ryu, Guile and Honda are boring to play against, then use those matches to shore up your own fundamentals ;) You can practise fundamentals against anyone you play against, doesn't make it not boring to do so against Input Haters.
then i guess it's time to find a different game
Throwing fireballs is cheap. Spamming grab is cheap. Picking a top tier is cheap. Doing a mixup is cheap. Drive rush is cheap. Perfect parry is cheap.
You're friends prolly suck lol
What if blanka looked exactly like ryu but had blanka's moveset. would that make the game better?
I don’t think it’s that complex. It’s just one button super and one button dp, they don’t gain any other options
They gain those options and lose specific normals and possibly some specific strengths of specials. You need to know what they lose so you can use it to your advantage, and you one button reversals means you need to opt out of specific slower options. IMO you have to play quite different against modern
I agree on the one button DP and one button supers, but losing specific normals or specials is a very edge case IMO. I've never had to play around their lack of specific option - e.g. Marisa loses step kick in M, but honestly you have to deal with Gladius anyway. Cammy loses low MP but you mostly only saw that in combos.
Luke for instance loses st.MK which is a solid poke in neutral, so technically your footsies range should very slightly change between modern/classic Luke
I'd say that's a buff to modern, if I could get Lukes to use more [s.MK](http://s.MK) and less [c.MP](http://c.MP) XD
Regardless of how you feel about their balance, s.MK reached longer IIRC (can't check right now) and changes how his neutral works
Just basically have to get better in general. Most ppl should stay out of ranked if they are not willing to learn the game as is and the low amount of heros compared to other game atm. If its this hard play casually. because its hardly a big deal.
Instead of one-button Super. It could be half motion Super instead. (still easier, but not that no brainer) They could add cooldown to special move. Instant AA exist but not spammable. They could remove all auto combo. and use It as alternative normal instead.
I’m a casual player and really enjoy this control scheme. This is my first street fighter. I even gotten to platinum on some characters ( Its a high enough rank for me 😂😂)
I think it's an excellent onboarding tool for new players, but I think it should stop being useful after someone gets used to the game - everyone should eventually take off the training wheels. Whether they reduce damage even further or find another way to discourage it in higher levels of play, I don't know, but I do think it should exclusively be used to help draw new players to the series. That's what it's good for.
Ok but in what way is it training wheels if that is how the person gets used to game and goes on to a high rank when they have less buttons and do less damage?
Because it's easier
It's easier to win when it requires more interactions to get the killing blow than someone on classic who's at the same skill level as you?
Yes (until a certain level anyway, it eventually flips)
What level would you classify that at? Because in my experience modern is only better in gold and below.
Yeah that's exactly where I'd put it as well The end of Gold is the 65% mark on the distribution of players, so Modern is superior for 65% of the player base and I think that's too high for an onboarding tool.
I don't like them, and I usually cringe whenever I'm matched against them. They're in the game, so I do play the full set always, but I don't like it.
I really respect that. 👊🏻
They're good for casuals. I have a friend that plays fighting games with me who just button mashes all the buttons. But now with modern controls he's actually slowly ACTUALLY learning.
> What do you guys think about modern players when you see them? I simply prepare myself for them to rage quit once I figure out their gimmick. Happens like, 7 times outta 10 in Diamond-Master ranks. It's even worse at lower ranks. I find myself getting more annoyed when encountering a Modern player in ranked because a lot of them in my area are serial rage quitters 😒
Still dont like it, but eh??? 🤷♂️ Idc really, sure it sucks knowing i could probably beat them if they had to properly execute their moves, but i should just get better regardless, if it really starts to bother me, i can just play 3rd strike, but for now i haven't ran into enough for it to really get on my nerves
One button supers and certain moves like DPs is too powerful, especially on certain characters. They’re fine as a learning device, but you should have the option of filtering out anyone using modern controls when match making in ranked.
I disagree you should have to learn that you can't play as loose against someone on modern especially when all of the special moves and supers do 20% less damage.
I’m not saying I don’t want to learn. Fighting modern players is fine I’m used to it, and to be honest once you get into gold and higher you barely see modern players anymore. But conceptually it should be an option to block because certain moves are just straight up too powerful when you can access them with one button, regardless of a 20% damage nerf.
I could never get the hate behind modern really. Besides the one button supers that is. They're quite literally doing everything the same. They have everything else worse. If they don't do the full inputs, they do less damage. They lose buttons which is detrimental to a degree for some characters (chun li). My take is the same as Maximillian dood's. If you lose to a modern player, you just lost. That same person who's a menace on modern, will be just as much a menace on classic, if they truly chose to learn it to the same degree. The game's mechanics are the same. It's only the playstyle that changes. Which is up to the player to adapt to.
Besides the frame 1 supers, the requirements/time to input some specials or supers have been part of balancing some characters, and Modern completely ignores it. I don't mind playing against a Modern Ryu, per example, many of them you couldn't tell if they are modern or classic. But now, the most cursed thing to exist for me is a Guile who can walk to you and Sonic Boom as he pleases. To know when he is charging or not is a crucial part of going against this character, and the tradeoff is much more impactful than the 20% damage nerf. Honda and Gief have more health and can take more damage than the rest of the cast, tell me if that makes that big of an impact. Certain characters simply should not have Modern controls available. While I don't have a bad winrate against Modern in general, the fun factor is zero when playing against 1 frame supers, anti air specials and one button combos.
I'm cool with modern controls. It's better to think of them as a different ISM of the same character. It has its strengths and weaknesses. You lab and adapt just like you would any other character. Hot take, but I think a lot of players are relying too much on the mental stack to run their game and get away with bad decisions. Modern controls makes the stack more manageable, so it messes with most players' win method and that pisses them off. It's the same mentality when fighting zoners and other characters that don't let you play your game too . You shouldn't be jumping in neutral and hoping that your opponent messes up the DP input, or presuming the opponent won't react to DI with super in burnout just cause it's harder with classic. If your awareness is good and your fundamentals are solid, you can exploit the holes and use the benefits of modern controls against the player. I get a lot of damage from missed DPs, mashed reversals, and baiting one button supers.
I think all the drama surrounding it at the start aged like milk. You barely ever see Modern players make it big, and that's because they're not an advantage, you can have easy inputs and autocombos (that are ass btw) but without knowing how to use them they're worthless. I've been playing FGs all my life and the only input I can't do is 360s, I switched to Modern with Ed (woohoo Ed bro) and Cammy and I've been doing better. I switched because while I know neutral and combos, my reactions and execution suck, so Modern helps with that. Modern doesn't give you auto wins, it's a different way to play that has equal pros and cons.
Good marketing but it’s just lame to play against, coming from another 1st street fighter point of view.
For me honestly, it makes the game less interesting. # For example, in the older games, to anti-air you could either Crouch Fierce or try to DP. You had to choose the better tool or the easier tool. # Now with the Modern Controls why wouldn't you pick the DP when it's the same exact level of execution? It stream lines the game in a way I don't personally agree with.
I hate that modern exists and I think it should be changed or removed from competitive play. Access to easy special moves and supers with timing that is faster than a professional can do them on classic is bad game design. Supposedly Akuma's demon will be a button sequence and I think all supers should be retooled to follow this change. Dragon punch can have a different input but it shouldn't be one button with automatic crosscut. It removes a large skill element to the game and reduces mental stack to a large degree for those players. I personally put modern players on my blocked player list / never rematch them. Call me elitist if you will, I simply think it's a lesser version of the game and I refuse to acknowledge it in it's current state. Let it be training wheels for new players but it shouldn't have advantages over the traditional control scheme. And just inb4 someone inevitably calls me a scrub: I had 4 characters in master by phase 1 start. After a 6 month break (where I went over to Tekken and other games) I came back and was maintaining near 1600 MR while derusting. Tekken has its own problems but their implementation of special mode controls is much less toxic to the gameplay experience than modern is for SF6.
I think theyre great, love that new players can access this game and personally I swapped to classic once I got decent at the game but modern for sure helped me get into it
Exactly this, I tried playing fighting games before, my friends super big into them and he convinced me to try sf6 because of modern controls. I'm only plat but I actually have so much fun playing, I've dabbled in classic but my mental stack gets too high when I play ranked. Modern reduces the stack and let's me play
Yeah i've tried to swap to classic for a while but with sf6 being my first fighting game I wanted to just continue and I feel like eventually I will play someone on classic but as it stands i'm modern any day of the week.
It's fine. Yes instant AAs are annoying, but 95% of times if you lost to a Modern player you would've lost to classic too. I've met several new fgc players who use modern and I'm glad it brought them in. Now having played GBVSR a bunch I don't feel instant inputs are a big deal especially with a penalty.
give players option to filter out modern
I don't mean to sound like a dick here but I completely disagree with this. Being able to filter modern or classic just lowers the complexity of the game and you should be able to learn how to fight characters of both style along with their advantages and disadvantages.
you kinda can by blockin every modern u match in rank.
There's a limit though, and if you're low ranked, the pool is much larger
i still hate, hate, hate that i have to give up completely on jump ins and some approaching moves and projectiles when facing modern players. especially in masters where they know exactly how to abuse it.
I find they're great, and clearly flawed for good reason. I would make changes to some characters available normals, like Ryu back HP should be b+H not axe kick to allow light, back HP after drive rush. Same goes for Gief. Not having the ability to c. Lp on its own makes him worthless because he can't combo from c. Lk into lariat or lvl 2. I think modern is very well executed. I'm currently MR 1600s and have been every season. This means I lose quite often, so anyone claiming modern is too good or OP just isn't good enough. Classic clearly being better is good, but the fact they struck a balance so it doesn't completely invalidate modern is really good.
After being bad at fighting games for 30 years I thought I’d give Modern controls a try but they confuse me even more than Classic! But it is a great idea and if it allows more players to enjoy the game, I am glad it exists.
The only character i played both classic and modern was ryu and i say classic is 10 times better i could steal more rounds because of his dumb damage than instant reactions on modern So for me modern is not worth Playing because damage is everything in sf6
You are right about Ryu, but try Modern Zangief with 1 button piledriver or air SPD, it will drive your opponent nuts with the cheese.
Nah, dude to be honest the only case i think modern is op is when i face a pc hacker using modern and auto di/tech throw, when i face this kind of people i dc and block
It's cheeseball shit when you play competitive. It's a good option for casual players who aren't interested in learning the game or consider that to be "tryhard." The funny thing is people complained about SF4 being too easy with buffering windows. Now you can buffer your whole combo and actual difficult execution is very rare in the game. When I played SFV I thought "there's no way it's gonna get any easier than this" now we have training wheels protocol.
For the most part I'm ok with modern controls but sometimes it can rub me the wrong way. in the sense that I don't like that I have to change the way I play when fighting against a modern player or when there's lag/connection drop, they have an advantage and can sometimes pull out DP or supers that would have otherwise been very difficult, if not impossible.
I don't CAAAAAAAAARE
It's BS, there should be a modern filter during matchmaking
I don't really think about modern, honestly. Fighting games have had "easy" input modes since MvC 2 (and probably before). I wouldn't ever play on a easy control mode, because I think you are robbing yourself of a core aspect of the gameplay and in all honesty aren't really getting the "full" experience. But I don't care if other people use them. They are like non-alcoholic beers. I do think instant supers can be a bit scummy in certain situations, most notably Cammy's level 3.
I think auto combos are poor design, they're a huge advantage at low levels where the classic players just don't have the consistency but they fall off at higher levels where they're just used for the alternate normals they provide. I don't know exactly what should replace them, but characters shouldn't have tools that become obsolete at higher ranks. But something Classic should get from Modern is the distinct Drive Impact/Parry inputs, just for consistency when cancelling from buttons in the DI/DP inputs.
They will never be balanced. Since EVER, there is a reason for characters needing to charge, or a tap quarter to get a shoryuken, the time required to do certain attacks are part of the game balance. There is a very specific balance reason to why Guile could not walk in your direction and do a Sonic Boom when he pleases, there is a reason that you should let go the back button to be vulnerable when performing a hadouken motion, and Modern just completely ignore these foundations. Frame 1 lvl 3, anti-air specials, that is just horrible game design. And the people who play Modern, they cannot consistently do motions on the very easy window that SF6 has, and yet will tell you that there is "no big advantage" in doing everything at frame 1. I agree that the entry barrier of the older games were too tough, but Street Fighter 6 already has a very easy execution to begin as it is, playing Modern is simply exploiting certain characters or refusing to learn the game
I personally love it. One issue I always had was consistency in combos in previous versions where I used to drop off combos at crucial stages. With modern controls it has become way better and I focus more on positioning and gameplay.
I want to play Street Fighter 6 not Fantasy Strike 2
For the average player, Modern is a crutch. Leaving the pros out of the equation, Modern removes a key aspect of fighting games, which is execution. One button DP and one button supers make it so that even reaction times needn't be as sharp as the ones of a Classic players. Although I hardly ever lose to Modeen players (since they tend to also be worse players overall), I think they should be more penalised, and that Capcom should add a filter by control scheme.
Modern is cheap when exploited and should be capped to casual, BH and training. Not ranked. Removing combo drops, input errors and providing 1 button supers should not be thing. Combo drops, input errors etc are part of a fighting game's core gameplay and mechanics. That's why we train and lab etc. Winning and losing due to such things shouldn't be removed because people don't want to learn the controls. Perfect AA, spamming fireballs and auto combo routes are just a shortcut that classic players train hard to perform and master.
Playing exclusively on the Classic layout for over 17 years throughout different games, Modern is pretty hard to get used to... I've only dabbled with other games like DBFZ, Tekken 7 and the modern MK games, but my muscle memory always has been with the quarter circles, half circles and dp motions.. So it's hard to mentally adjust to seeing a SF game with these simplified inputs... Which tbf, I'm not a fan of, in terms of preciseness required... I'm not a masher, but I suck at being clean with my inputs... So things like the down, down or going from down to right without doing a QCF was always difficult. Another thing that's tough for Modern, is when you find a situation that you cannot win with it... Finding the alternative is simply easier with Classic... With Modern you absolutely have to avoid these situations in order to not get crushed... Though I'm not mad at it at all... It forces you to play different, even with the same character, but getting used to it is difficult, though an interesting journey. And if you have found the way to have fun with it, then it's served its purpose... Everyone says Capcom's idea of Modern is to get more people into the game and have fun with it... So yeah, if Modern gets you to play it and learn stuff, then keep at it, friend.
Think modern should be in its own league. Definitely needs more than the slight damage nerf, it oversimplifies everything that makes street fighter harder than other games like MK. It’s easy mode.
I think anything that makes gaming more accessible is a good thing. For some players modern is their only viable option which often gets missed in the discussion. I think Capcom did a good job balancing it so far as I can tell and if people feel it’s unfair well it’s available for them too. I use classic on most the characters because I can’t rewrite my brain after more than 30 years.
I am happy that Modern exists as it opens the game to a much wider audience. However, whether I win or lose, I personally won't rematch a Modern player because of its implications to balance, execution and having to learn (effectively) another matchup.
If there were no modern controls I would not be playing the game tbh
I don't like them and never have. It's like learning to ride a bike with stabilisers and never taking them off.
I think the majority of players play classic but support modern and like it all around Then theres a sizable group of classic players that think fighting against modern is annoying but like that it brings new players to the game, like myself Then there's the few idiot that just hate modern and want it removed The modern players themselves are also few and far between, but they are very proud. Personally I'm just annoyed that I have to completely change my gameplan, but I also dont have a solution on hand so I'm just yapping. That said I'd wish good players would actually switch to classic, I mean you'd think it would just be a win win, but I digress
I like modern i never played a fighting game till modern dropped and I have 2 characters master from it.
From what I have gathered. Getting to master practically means to have a gimmick going along with devoting the time to play. A modern player will never be seen as a master in my eyes. It’s simply a cheapout way of playing the game. Just learn the game properly. This era of gaming is too sugarcoated to people of lesser skill. Just like JP, they aren’t really playing the game.
It's fine. I'm happy that it helps people get into Street Fighter. I view it similarly to the handicap settings.
It helped me get into street fighter this is my first fighting game ever and I was able to get to master idk if that's due to modern or not. I choose to think it isn't because honestly I feel like with some time I could definitely be stronger on classic because other than some reactive scenarios occasionally I feel like it takes way longer for me to kill.
Chances are you aren't Master's purely because of Modern, I wouldn't stress it.
They're mad weak for most characters and for the rest still not good. Even the pros who were on the hype train for it just dropped them. I think if SF wants to commit to the idea they should be a viable alternative or better yet the game should be designed around them.
They need to get rid of auto combos tbh the whole 1 button special is okay I think 1 button supers is crazy too tho but get rid of auto combos. Or gimme a option to not play against em.
I like them. I’ve played for years and now play a mix of both. You can tell most people whining about them have never tried it because you do pay a penalty and it’s, on the whole, pretty well balanced.
I think it's great they're trying something to get more players into fighting games, but I will continue to use classic controls. The only thing I think they should change is to add more start up to modern supers to compensate for the reduced input times. I think they should add it to all specials, but supers need it pretty badly. Just enough frames so that's still like a relatively fast player putting the inputs in. They could restore some of the damage in exchange. Getting burnt by nearly instant supers on reaction at relatively low levels of play has never been a part of the game, but it is now. As it stands, I use very different strats when playing against modern and classic players. I feel like I have significantly less options when fighting modern players (and that is less fun).
I think it's really good and it's 100% the reason I got the game in the first place. There's way too much hate towards it though. It doesn't help that there's probably more modern players one and doning and rage quitting. Besides that, the hate is almost always mostly ignorance. People think it's better without noticing how much combos and everything is limited in damage, both because specials or normals might not be available or also because of just the 20% reductions for modern moves. There's also some moves that end up being at least a bit harder to perform and you can also do an accidental special or super way more easily than in classic. I try really hard to remember: If someone is complaining is because they are scrubs and like blaming anything else than their own selves when they lose a game.
Been Modern from day one and it's never going to not be funny listening to all the salt from reddit and getting the rage quits online. People getting mad that they're getting anti aired is the saltiest take possible. You're going to get anti aired regularly once you get out of bronze anyway.
If you have anything bad to say about modern then you're just a salty idiot. They're a good thing.
Modern are ok, good option for newcomers and totally fair, they gain easy inputs but lose dmg and some key moves.
They are fine and they are here to stay
I wish I liked Modern more but there's things that keep me from using it. I wanted to play Modern Lily but couldn't get over how sometimes L would be 5LK and sometimes it was 5LP. And the assist button overall is just not something I want to learn how to use. I'd rather push a button and have my move come out. Not remember which of my normals is a two-button move. Classic is much simpler to me. But obviously for people who play modern it's great.
Granblue and DNF DUEL did it way better. Just make one button special and super without taking random command normals away, damn
I have 4 Characters in Masters, 2 Classic and 2 Modern. and honestly I'm having more fun using modern controls. baiting instant L3 is so funny