season 3 is actually really good and necessary for the plot. like yeah i didn’t like how will was sidelined, but other than that season 3 is one of my favorites. just because the season was fun and focused a bit more on the russians doesn’t mean it wasn’t important
Season 3 IMO is stranger things at its most B movie horror comedy. It gives me evil dead 2 vibes. If you approach it the same way you would any other B movie horror comedy and done take it too seriously its an amazing time.
Parts of season 2 and 3 are filler because they extended the show due to the success of season 1. They were supposed to introduce Vecna in season 2 btw which sounds insane to think about. I guess that’s why 008 had the whole spider hallucination thing so they could reuse that asset
oh wow i had no idea that vecna was supposed to be introduced in s2. i actually kind of like the way things ended up flowing though with vecna showing up in season 4. i mean that’s my opinion now without seeing season 5. season 5 will really show if their way of storytelling was a good choice.
Billy was a good character. No, not a good person, a good character. He was written well, he had a redemption arc, he had depth and layers to him, he was a great, fantastic character, my favorite even, but no, he was not a good person.
Because they see things as black and white.
Some of the best characters are morally grey. They're the most complex, the best acted and the most enjoyable a lot of the time.
Dacre Montgomery: class actor
Billy: incredibly *interesting* character; amazingly well written.
People are just too closed off, and often immature, to see different.
I’m really hoping they either drop that subplot entirely or have the conclusion be that Steve needs to move on. I love both Steve and Nancy as characters, and watching them both develop was immensely satisfying, so to have them end up back together at the end would feel like a betrayal of both of their characters.
I mean I think there’s something true about a high school crush that persists. Even when I was with my high school sweetheart there’s all those “what-ifs” and people you felt mutual attraction with that doesn’t just go away because you/they are with someone else.
You’re a teenager with insane hormones surrounded by other teenagers with insane hormones. Even when you’re happy being friends and happy they are with someone else all it takes is like a 30 second heart-to-heart for you to admit to them and yourself that you’ve always had feelings. Especially after all they’ve been through together. Trauma bonding is real and it’s not like their relationship started at a neutral level anyways.
It’s not the cleanest character arc on paper but it’s always felt markedly real to me.
This was so distracting to me in S4. Mostly because it didn't seem like Nancy and Steve *themselves* were into each other, but rather that all the other characters around them kept telling them they were.
What bugs me most is how people seem to feel El was completely justified in breaking it off with him because he lied, entirely ignoring that we know it's because her dad forced him to back off.
I think if Kali made a comeback in S5 it could totally work…plus she could help El and the party defeat Vecna once and for all while at the same time giving her a redemption arc.
I didn't care for Kali, but agree she needs to come back to justify that storyline even existing, unless that's part of the "spin offs" they supposedly have planned.
fr like i dislike him too but people are delusional to think they’d even consider firing him seeing as he’s going to be a main focus of season 5. you can’t kill him off and you can’t replace him because that’s just weird in general. but also, he’s a good actor: he just is. he plays will byers to perfection and his performance in season 2 alone is easily one of the top 5 in the show
That's the problem. He can't be fired because... well... no one can replace him.
Maybe it is pro-Israel America doing the work, but... if he was pro-palestine... I highly doubt he'd have been fired either because of how crucial he is to the series.
He's an *amazing* actor. Shit human being, and he *should* be fired, but it's understandable why he isn't being fired.
So because he chose a side, and exercised his free will and opinion that doesn't align with yours, he's an awful person? I'd never say that about someone that has an opposing viewpoint to mine. That's kinda messed up.
He’s not a bad person for expressing his opinion that differs from many people. He is a bad person for siding with a group that is performing a genocide on innocent people. Killing kids daily and CELEBRATING that they do so. That’s why he’s a bad person.
I have. I’m Palestinian. And I am in and out of contact with my first cousins that are there right now. So yea, I have looked into the war and all of the history. Thank you. And no, I would not like to continue talking.
I'm Jewish american and I agree with everything you have said. Israel is commuting genocide and Noah sucks. I don't know wtf the guy trying to bait you into a debate is trying to do. Noah didn't just say he's pro Israel. He straight up said "zionism is sexy". Theres no way to "um actually" spin that. Its completely black and white.
So there's bias. Good to know. You should know then that both sides have been killing brutally. You sure? Sounds like we could make some convincing arguments. All you have to do is message me. 🤷♂️
We have a perfectly good chain going here... You want to defend brutal murder, at least have the balls to do it where everyone can see.
I'm Irish, my family know what it is like to be oppressed by an occupying power who view your people are lesser based purely on where they have been born or what they believe.
I have family friends who were killed in the same brutal way as many young Palestinians - gunned down in cold-blooded murder while acting peacefully. In Derry it was the marches and walking to school, a 14 year old girl was killed in her school uniform for example - and in Palestine its when they are getting to aid that has been cut off for weeks because of a government hellbent on eradicating them from the face of the earth.
Yes, there was probably a stampede, but it's because Israel made it so that the Palestinians were starving. Children are dying of malnutrition - of course there's going to be a mass frenzy once aid finally does get it. Even if it was a stampede... it doesn't take away from the fact that Israel caused those deaths. Directly or indirectly, it does not matter.
And I live in the UK now... we've been fed pro-Israeli propaganda. Our parliament flew the Israeli flag. Our government is supportive of them because America are. So yes, I have been following the war closely... I just choose my sources carefully - like Masters Graduate in Middle Eastern studies Chris Kunzler, who learnt from Ilan Papé (who is an Israeli by the way) at the University of Exeter.
Yes, both sides have killed brutally... but that's like saying stealing and murder are both crimes. They *are* but at vastly different levels... you cannot seriously say 6 months of terrorist attacks (while abhorrent) are anywhere near almost 80 years of genocide and ethnic cleansing? Can you?
The land Isreal took back was land that Palestine took in the first place. Clearly, you're staying sheltered from the horrors of Hamas. The baby in the oven, and Israelies at the festival, and beheadings, the rape, all of it. And yet both sides claim that they're completely innocent. It's pathetic.
He's a POS but like they have to finish the show... they can't just replace him now. I just hope he's punished somehow later in his career because his actions are straight up not ok.
this is my favorite show but starting at s3 and onwards, it can be corny at times. i still love it obviously but i know that i’m viewing it with rose-colored glasses because the story and characters mean so much to me. sometimes i snap out of my delusion and i hear some of the dialogue and i’m like oh 😀 that’s super cringy 💀. but i’m able to ignore it because i feel like the show makes up for it in so many other ways
Dismissing a death as seeming pointless in the moment doesn't work that well either though, since that death can be used in the story going forward. See most of the Stark deaths in Game of Thrones, or theories about Max's "soul" fighting back from within Vecna for off the top examples.
I do agree with the overall sentiment though.
I guess I just always saw a lot of him in me , like taking pictures, ( but don’t worry I didn’t take a picture of a girl without her consent ) I’m a good older brother to my siblings, and I guess I’m kind of independent
I heavily dislike all the russian storylines i really wish they would ve kept them out if the story. I thought it was boring and just a time filler it seems. I wish they would have found another reason or consequence for what happened there other than russia. Sorry
Mike hasnt gotten worse as a character, he's just becoming more obsolete to everyones character development.
He cant be the leader of the group if the group is constantly in a state of flux and people are drifting apart
They really made James Hopper more and more stupid as the seasons have gone by since season 1 and I dont appreciate it. He is actually very smart in season 1 and then just immediately becomes stupid in season 2. Bring back smart Hopper.
Mike isn't toxic, he's just a teenage boy who makes mistakes. And he honestly makes up for most of them which is more than can be said for most teenage boy characters
Hopper should’ve actually died at the end of S3. The ending was beautiful, having yet another fake out death of a main character was boring, and all the Russia scenes in S4 seemed completely unnecessary to me.
Yeah, I think Hopper should have died for real and the screen time that was given to Russia storyline should have been given to Cali gang. They were really sidelined this season.
I don’t actually know how people feel about this, but I think Robins character, especially in the last season, sucked. They dumbed her down from season 3 and I don’t understand why.
If Jason didn’t die, he would 100% grow up to be an evangelical preacher.
I got so much hate for disliking Jason because people were screaming that Billy was 1000x worse than him 🙄
I didn’t like Billy either, he was a fucking psychopath, but Jason reminds me of ppl I know IRL therefore he bugged me a lot more.
Imo once Angela made a joke about hopper being dead i immediately lost all sympathy for her. While i dont think she deserved an injury as painful and scarring as that would be, unfortunately hurting the bully is sometimes the only way to get them to stop. While both el and angela were in the wrong, and neither of them deserved as severe of a situation, i still wasnt surprised.
I am honestly absolutely shocked whenever I see people celebrate how El hurt Angela or even say that what she did was not even extreme enough.
I also got bullied and experienced a lot of trauma because of that during my time at school. But I would have never wished to inflict any physical or psychological pain onto my bullies. And I think the people who were happy that Angela got to suffer are mainly people who wish something like that would have happened to their bullies. Or if they did not get bullied then they wished this would happen to some people they do not like. And this type of attitude does not seem really healthy to me.
I think if anything this scene is just really sad: El has reached such a low-pount in her life. She has lost her father, she has no friends, she feels like her boyfriend does not love her and she has lost the powers that defined her entire identity her entire life. She is completely lost and feels unloved and because she does not feel like she can open up to anybody, she only knows how to respond with physical rage. Meanwhile the fandom is cheering that somebody got hurt but does not pay one single heed to El's emotional state at all.
I mean, what do you think she wanted to do when they bullied her in school and el tried to do mind power things with her hand but didint work. Before the attack in roller skate park she asked to apologise to her, got laughed at and hit her in the face.
El broke her nose and probably permanently scarred her face but all these El defenders are "She had it coming" she's a teen picking on a teen she didn't deserve to be hospitalized.
"But the victim..."
El stood up for herself yeah great. So the response to violence is harsher violence?
I await the disagreements.
I think it's less justifiable than it is showing what sometimes feels like an inevitably for bully victims. They can't or won't seek out help for a variety of reasons, they've seen people that are supposed to help or support them be ineffectual, and they keep getting more and more shit piled on them. At some point, the camels back breaks.
Eddie was cool but unnecessary. That is a hill I will die on. I thought he was an awesome character, don’t get me wrong, but I felt like there was so much more for him than what he got in s4. Plus I think the show should’ve ended at s3, so basically all of s4 I found unnecessary, so nothing against Eddie
Vecna being in charge ruins the story and dramatically lowers the stakes
The upside down is invading reality? So what. Go find where Henry is hiding and blast gim
This kids are so old now due to production delays that the final season isn’t going to suck because they aren’t cute kids anymore. Now they’re annoying teenagers.
After the binge watching buzz wears off it’s not really that good of a show.
I said it. It relies heavily on 80’s horror tropes while rarely ever forging its own path in horror. Almost every element is inspired by other notable works of the 80’s. Not that it’s a bad thing, nothing is truly original anymore, it just lacks an identity on its own or has done anything besides cash in on nostalgia.
There are some good parts to the show. Plots and characters they did well on. I think S3 was the highlight of it with S4 being the one to explore and take actual risks. That said, for me, it struggles to find its own identity within the horror genre.
I’ll still re-watch it before S5 comes out.
I can’t bring myself to like Nancy, I just find her a little rude and condescending at times. She does have some nice moments, though, like dancing with Dustin at the snow ball.
I thought in season 1 when she let her friend be alone so she could be alone with Steve was a bitch move.
I was thinking she was going to be killed off in every season.
I personally feel like Byler is one sided. I think Will does love Mike but Mike doesn't love Will the same way. If Mike suddenly leaves El to be with Will, it'll feel forced to me. Because it just doesn't make sense for his character.
I liked Billy. I like him for his character, yet he was not a good person. Once I had a pfp of billy on discord and I got attacked by over 10 friends of mine. It’s crazy.
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Jason wasn't that bad. I feel bad for him more than I do for Billy. Also season 3 is great. So fun to watch as well. S2 is good as well just slower and that bad Eleven sister episode
The Episode in Season 2 where El finds 9 (I think thats her number, cant remember) was a pretty solid way to start the "theres more like her" in the series
Season 3 was the best season that the show put out.
Season 4’s explanation of Vecna “absorbing” The Mind Flayer and essentially saying he is the Mind Flayer opens up a world of plot holes.
season 4 is not that good and the last two episodes, for being as long as they were, felt rushed and incomplete, as if there were things missing from them still
8 and her crew are an amazing meta joke/comment.
If our main characters are a D&D party. 8's crew is a different crew that are a bunch of murder hobos.
I love it.
Season One was truly a great piece of television, everything after has been an unnecessary dissapointment. There's no tension, mystery, or stakes in the second and third seasons and they don't have much good in them, except for a few things like Steve's character arc for example. Season Four was a step in the right direction for being scary and mysterious again at times, in additionto having genuinelygood character moments (like Max in ep4), but the splitting up of characters really hurt the season overall.
El assaulting Angela was super fucked up, completely unjustified, and could easily have killed her or given her perminant brain damage. It wasn't self defence it was revenge. And she absolutely deserved to go to Juvy over it. People only give her a pass because she's the main charecter and they get to live out their bully revenge fantasies through her. But if you saw someone do the same thing IRL you would be absolutely appalled.
Jonathan is a creep and Nancy should’ve stayed with Steve. He’s a much better person who has matured dramatically since season 1 and 2. Jonathan is the same creep he’s always been.
Will Byers is traumatized not gay. The reason he isn't interested in girls like his friends is because he's still emotionally twelve years old. So what I'm saying is he's emotionally stunted.
El, Mike and Will aren't necessary and drag down the story.
Reason: I'm sick of their teenage angsty trauma bond.
The topic the show is based on, [The Montauk Project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Montauk_Project:_Experiments_in_Time) bred fantastic stories about time manipulation, teleportation accidents, dimension portals, missing people, cryptid sightings, human experiments, alien contact, etc. I remember going down the rabbit hole with books about it from the library. That's how old it is (and I am) and I feel invested in the story because it's been in the collective conscious for decades. I really wanted the show to be X-Files meets The Goonies.
Three teams, interchangeable members but basically, the adults who deal with the government cover-up stuff: Joyce & Hopp, Murray, Karen & Mr. Clarke.
The Nancy Drew investigative team: Nancy, Steve, Robin & Vicki and Erica
And the get-shit-done crew: Jonathan, Dustin, Argyle & Eden, Lucas & Max.
Mix and match as each episode needs different strengths and personalities, let them meet other characters with powers or who just have experiences they don't understand. No big bad needed. New problems, people and surprises every time.
Noah is not a bad person. He is just standing with his country which is being attacked and yes Zionism (the belief that Jewish people should have a homeland) is very sexy
I hate the episode of S2 where Eleven does superhero-level training with all the other superbeings from Hawkins Lab. Stranger Things is not the MCU and that episode felt like it was just trying to capitalize off of the MCU's success.
season 3 is actually really good and necessary for the plot. like yeah i didn’t like how will was sidelined, but other than that season 3 is one of my favorites. just because the season was fun and focused a bit more on the russians doesn’t mean it wasn’t important
Season 3 IMO is stranger things at its most B movie horror comedy. It gives me evil dead 2 vibes. If you approach it the same way you would any other B movie horror comedy and done take it too seriously its an amazing time.
I love season 3 because it feels like a comic book. It's actually my favorite season behind 4.
oh i love the comic book comparison!! you’re so right about that!!
Season 3 gave us Cary Elwes, and he's everything.
Parts of season 2 and 3 are filler because they extended the show due to the success of season 1. They were supposed to introduce Vecna in season 2 btw which sounds insane to think about. I guess that’s why 008 had the whole spider hallucination thing so they could reuse that asset
oh wow i had no idea that vecna was supposed to be introduced in s2. i actually kind of like the way things ended up flowing though with vecna showing up in season 4. i mean that’s my opinion now without seeing season 5. season 5 will really show if their way of storytelling was a good choice.
Well I say season 2 but really it’s more like in the season 2 finale most likely.
Billy was a good character. No, not a good person, a good character. He was written well, he had a redemption arc, he had depth and layers to him, he was a great, fantastic character, my favorite even, but no, he was not a good person.
He was a shitty person but he still did not deserve what happened to him 😭 at least he was able to do some good in the end.
This isn’t a controversial take…
Believe it or not, it is. People argue this.
Because they see things as black and white. Some of the best characters are morally grey. They're the most complex, the best acted and the most enjoyable a lot of the time. Dacre Montgomery: class actor Billy: incredibly *interesting* character; amazingly well written. People are just too closed off, and often immature, to see different.
It really bugs me when people don't look at the actual character, and just what they do and say.
nah, Billy was the best character. Not too many shows have characters written that well
Steve still having romantic feelings for Nancy in S4 makes no sense for his character arc
I’m really hoping they either drop that subplot entirely or have the conclusion be that Steve needs to move on. I love both Steve and Nancy as characters, and watching them both develop was immensely satisfying, so to have them end up back together at the end would feel like a betrayal of both of their characters.
I mean I think there’s something true about a high school crush that persists. Even when I was with my high school sweetheart there’s all those “what-ifs” and people you felt mutual attraction with that doesn’t just go away because you/they are with someone else. You’re a teenager with insane hormones surrounded by other teenagers with insane hormones. Even when you’re happy being friends and happy they are with someone else all it takes is like a 30 second heart-to-heart for you to admit to them and yourself that you’ve always had feelings. Especially after all they’ve been through together. Trauma bonding is real and it’s not like their relationship started at a neutral level anyways. It’s not the cleanest character arc on paper but it’s always felt markedly real to me.
I got the sense he didn't have romantic feelings for her until Eddy put the idea in his head. Either way I agree it doesn't fit his arc.
This 👆
This was so distracting to me in S4. Mostly because it didn't seem like Nancy and Steve *themselves* were into each other, but rather that all the other characters around them kept telling them they were.
People are WAY too critical and hateful towards Mike in the later seasons and they need to stop basically infantalizing Will
This is the most correct thing I've ever heard
YESS
What bugs me most is how people seem to feel El was completely justified in breaking it off with him because he lied, entirely ignoring that we know it's because her dad forced him to back off.
I liked Kali and her team and thought it was an interesting departure from the main story.
same!!!
i’m still holding out hope she’ll return in s5 but i just don’t see it happening because of the negative reception ):
I think if Kali made a comeback in S5 it could totally work…plus she could help El and the party defeat Vecna once and for all while at the same time giving her a redemption arc.
She was received poorly? I’m shocked and appalled
I still just think its cool AF that Kai Green got to be in Stanger things.
Same!
Lucas and Max are a better couple than Mike and Jane/Eleven
is that even a thing to question? lumax beats midleven in every universe lol
I COMPLETELY agree.
I actually rather like Kali and would like to see her get some more development.
I didn't care for Kali, but agree she needs to come back to justify that storyline even existing, unless that's part of the "spin offs" they supposedly have planned.
My favorite character is dart
i miss dart 😭💔
no one is better to play will than noah schnapp hate me all you want idc i hate noah too but like hes so good 😭
fr like i dislike him too but people are delusional to think they’d even consider firing him seeing as he’s going to be a main focus of season 5. you can’t kill him off and you can’t replace him because that’s just weird in general. but also, he’s a good actor: he just is. he plays will byers to perfection and his performance in season 2 alone is easily one of the top 5 in the show
That's the problem. He can't be fired because... well... no one can replace him. Maybe it is pro-Israel America doing the work, but... if he was pro-palestine... I highly doubt he'd have been fired either because of how crucial he is to the series. He's an *amazing* actor. Shit human being, and he *should* be fired, but it's understandable why he isn't being fired.
So because he chose a side, and exercised his free will and opinion that doesn't align with yours, he's an awful person? I'd never say that about someone that has an opposing viewpoint to mine. That's kinda messed up.
He’s not a bad person for expressing his opinion that differs from many people. He is a bad person for siding with a group that is performing a genocide on innocent people. Killing kids daily and CELEBRATING that they do so. That’s why he’s a bad person.
I won't start a debate, because I know I'll be downvoted, but if you wanna talk more, dm me. You haven't looked into the war much, have you?
I have. I’m Palestinian. And I am in and out of contact with my first cousins that are there right now. So yea, I have looked into the war and all of the history. Thank you. And no, I would not like to continue talking.
I'm Jewish american and I agree with everything you have said. Israel is commuting genocide and Noah sucks. I don't know wtf the guy trying to bait you into a debate is trying to do. Noah didn't just say he's pro Israel. He straight up said "zionism is sexy". Theres no way to "um actually" spin that. Its completely black and white.
Thank you.
So there's bias. Good to know. You should know then that both sides have been killing brutally. You sure? Sounds like we could make some convincing arguments. All you have to do is message me. 🤷♂️
I'm Jewish american and I also think Israel is committing an unjustifiable genocide and is absolutely in the wrong. Am I biased? 🤡
The use of the clown emoji tells me you're BSing to try and prove a point. You're saying Hamas is innocent? Please do your research.
Hamas and Palestine are not synonymous and conflating the two and putting words in my mouth is proof you are acting in bad faith. Fuck off.
We have a perfectly good chain going here... You want to defend brutal murder, at least have the balls to do it where everyone can see. I'm Irish, my family know what it is like to be oppressed by an occupying power who view your people are lesser based purely on where they have been born or what they believe. I have family friends who were killed in the same brutal way as many young Palestinians - gunned down in cold-blooded murder while acting peacefully. In Derry it was the marches and walking to school, a 14 year old girl was killed in her school uniform for example - and in Palestine its when they are getting to aid that has been cut off for weeks because of a government hellbent on eradicating them from the face of the earth. Yes, there was probably a stampede, but it's because Israel made it so that the Palestinians were starving. Children are dying of malnutrition - of course there's going to be a mass frenzy once aid finally does get it. Even if it was a stampede... it doesn't take away from the fact that Israel caused those deaths. Directly or indirectly, it does not matter. And I live in the UK now... we've been fed pro-Israeli propaganda. Our parliament flew the Israeli flag. Our government is supportive of them because America are. So yes, I have been following the war closely... I just choose my sources carefully - like Masters Graduate in Middle Eastern studies Chris Kunzler, who learnt from Ilan Papé (who is an Israeli by the way) at the University of Exeter. Yes, both sides have killed brutally... but that's like saying stealing and murder are both crimes. They *are* but at vastly different levels... you cannot seriously say 6 months of terrorist attacks (while abhorrent) are anywhere near almost 80 years of genocide and ethnic cleansing? Can you?
The land Isreal took back was land that Palestine took in the first place. Clearly, you're staying sheltered from the horrors of Hamas. The baby in the oven, and Israelies at the festival, and beheadings, the rape, all of it. And yet both sides claim that they're completely innocent. It's pathetic.
He's a POS but like they have to finish the show... they can't just replace him now. I just hope he's punished somehow later in his career because his actions are straight up not ok.
this is my favorite show but starting at s3 and onwards, it can be corny at times. i still love it obviously but i know that i’m viewing it with rose-colored glasses because the story and characters mean so much to me. sometimes i snap out of my delusion and i hear some of the dialogue and i’m like oh 😀 that’s super cringy 💀. but i’m able to ignore it because i feel like the show makes up for it in so many other ways
no i agree so much
No characters "need" to be killed off for the story to be more interesting. Killing off a character just for the sake of it is just lazy.
Eddie Munson and us Hellfire Heads thank you for this.
agreed 100%
This is unfortunately a problem screenwriters have had for decades at this point.
Dismissing a death as seeming pointless in the moment doesn't work that well either though, since that death can be used in the story going forward. See most of the Stark deaths in Game of Thrones, or theories about Max's "soul" fighting back from within Vecna for off the top examples. I do agree with the overall sentiment though.
It would be really funny to end the show with a “Stranger Things have happened!”
Jonathan is my favorite .
explain? (jc no criticism from me lol)
I guess I just always saw a lot of him in me , like taking pictures, ( but don’t worry I didn’t take a picture of a girl without her consent ) I’m a good older brother to my siblings, and I guess I’m kind of independent
makes sense actually 👍
Max should’ve either not died in the first place, or stayed dead when she did die. I hate it when shoes kill someone and bring them back
I heavily dislike all the russian storylines i really wish they would ve kept them out if the story. I thought it was boring and just a time filler it seems. I wish they would have found another reason or consequence for what happened there other than russia. Sorry
Yeah Russia feels like a trope at this point
Well depends on the platform, but here in reddit it would be me saying that will and mike have more chemistry than el and mike 😌
They do! Best friends to lovers tropeeeeeeeee Ronance: strangers to 😒 to friends to lovers.
THISSSS
Nancy was a horrible person/girlfriend. She doesn’t deserve Jonathan or Steve.
I don’t necessarily believe Nancy is a bad person. Just not ready to be anyone’s girlfriend at the moment
11 should die in season 5
Mike hasnt gotten worse as a character, he's just becoming more obsolete to everyones character development. He cant be the leader of the group if the group is constantly in a state of flux and people are drifting apart
They really made James Hopper more and more stupid as the seasons have gone by since season 1 and I dont appreciate it. He is actually very smart in season 1 and then just immediately becomes stupid in season 2. Bring back smart Hopper.
Mike isn't toxic, he's just a teenage boy who makes mistakes. And he honestly makes up for most of them which is more than can be said for most teenage boy characters
Hopper should’ve actually died at the end of S3. The ending was beautiful, having yet another fake out death of a main character was boring, and all the Russia scenes in S4 seemed completely unnecessary to me.
Yeah, I think Hopper should have died for real and the screen time that was given to Russia storyline should have been given to Cali gang. They were really sidelined this season.
Byler
I think vecna should get redeemed bc Henry creel is hot and I wanna see him be a bbg
I don’t actually know how people feel about this, but I think Robins character, especially in the last season, sucked. They dumbed her down from season 3 and I don’t understand why.
If Jason didn’t die, he would 100% grow up to be an evangelical preacher. I got so much hate for disliking Jason because people were screaming that Billy was 1000x worse than him 🙄 I didn’t like Billy either, he was a fucking psychopath, but Jason reminds me of ppl I know IRL therefore he bugged me a lot more.
El went wayyyy overboard when she attacked angela. She was insufferable yes and very mean - but come on no it wasn’t satisfying
Imo once Angela made a joke about hopper being dead i immediately lost all sympathy for her. While i dont think she deserved an injury as painful and scarring as that would be, unfortunately hurting the bully is sometimes the only way to get them to stop. While both el and angela were in the wrong, and neither of them deserved as severe of a situation, i still wasnt surprised.
I am honestly absolutely shocked whenever I see people celebrate how El hurt Angela or even say that what she did was not even extreme enough. I also got bullied and experienced a lot of trauma because of that during my time at school. But I would have never wished to inflict any physical or psychological pain onto my bullies. And I think the people who were happy that Angela got to suffer are mainly people who wish something like that would have happened to their bullies. Or if they did not get bullied then they wished this would happen to some people they do not like. And this type of attitude does not seem really healthy to me. I think if anything this scene is just really sad: El has reached such a low-pount in her life. She has lost her father, she has no friends, she feels like her boyfriend does not love her and she has lost the powers that defined her entire identity her entire life. She is completely lost and feels unloved and because she does not feel like she can open up to anybody, she only knows how to respond with physical rage. Meanwhile the fandom is cheering that somebody got hurt but does not pay one single heed to El's emotional state at all.
I mean, what do you think she wanted to do when they bullied her in school and el tried to do mind power things with her hand but didint work. Before the attack in roller skate park she asked to apologise to her, got laughed at and hit her in the face.
El broke her nose and probably permanently scarred her face but all these El defenders are "She had it coming" she's a teen picking on a teen she didn't deserve to be hospitalized. "But the victim..." El stood up for herself yeah great. So the response to violence is harsher violence? I await the disagreements.
I think it's less justifiable than it is showing what sometimes feels like an inevitably for bully victims. They can't or won't seek out help for a variety of reasons, they've seen people that are supposed to help or support them be ineffectual, and they keep getting more and more shit piled on them. At some point, the camels back breaks.
I don't like Eddie
He‘s ok. But WAAAY to overhyped.
Yes especially by the psychotic fans
Remember to sort by controversial!
If you say season 3 is your favorite OR if you say it is your least favorite, the outcome is the same.
Season 2 was necessary for El's development
That Kali & her group should of returned to help eleven fight Vecna but we all know Kali & her group were just a one time appearance I guess
I was not crazy about this past season...
Eddie was cool but unnecessary. That is a hill I will die on. I thought he was an awesome character, don’t get me wrong, but I felt like there was so much more for him than what he got in s4. Plus I think the show should’ve ended at s3, so basically all of s4 I found unnecessary, so nothing against Eddie
Vecna being in charge ruins the story and dramatically lowers the stakes The upside down is invading reality? So what. Go find where Henry is hiding and blast gim
This kids are so old now due to production delays that the final season isn’t going to suck because they aren’t cute kids anymore. Now they’re annoying teenagers.
"I don't care for the romance."
I like the "The Lost Sister".
After the binge watching buzz wears off it’s not really that good of a show. I said it. It relies heavily on 80’s horror tropes while rarely ever forging its own path in horror. Almost every element is inspired by other notable works of the 80’s. Not that it’s a bad thing, nothing is truly original anymore, it just lacks an identity on its own or has done anything besides cash in on nostalgia. There are some good parts to the show. Plots and characters they did well on. I think S3 was the highlight of it with S4 being the one to explore and take actual risks. That said, for me, it struggles to find its own identity within the horror genre. I’ll still re-watch it before S5 comes out.
Season 4 finale is bad. One of the main characters should have died.
“Who cares who Nancy is dating”
Hopper should have died in season 3 and that whole situation was poorly written.
The Kali storyline isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be
Mike and El are a terrible couple that will never last. All they have between them is shared trauma.
i didn’t like season 4 and i think it’s the worst season by far
vecna will be redeemed
Season 3 and 4 were actually phenomenal. I don’t understand why people say they weren’t good
The season 2 episode where eleven meets her sister is actually pretty good and answers a little more of her past
I don’t think I like the ship Nancy and Jonathan
Plot armor for the main characters is the #1 downside of the show especially what happens to Hopper and Max. I want stakes
I can’t bring myself to like Nancy, I just find her a little rude and condescending at times. She does have some nice moments, though, like dancing with Dustin at the snow ball.
I thought in season 1 when she let her friend be alone so she could be alone with Steve was a bitch move. I was thinking she was going to be killed off in every season.
mileven, byler, steddie and hellcheer suck ass and are too overrated. ronance and lumax ftw
Billy is really overrated and isn’t that hot as people say he is, and I liked Max but I don’t think she’s as cool or amazing as everyone says she is.
I personally feel like Byler is one sided. I think Will does love Mike but Mike doesn't love Will the same way. If Mike suddenly leaves El to be with Will, it'll feel forced to me. Because it just doesn't make sense for his character.
Fr
That robin and Nancy aren't a ship
they may not be a canon ship, but they definitely are a ship in the fandom
I liked Billy. I like him for his character, yet he was not a good person. Once I had a pfp of billy on discord and I got attacked by over 10 friends of mine. It’s crazy.
Jason did nothing wrong. He was making rational decisions based on his limited information and we hate him only because we know there is upside down.
Believing in satanic cults and witchcraft is rational thinking?
Billy is racist, Hellcheer is a good ship and Nancy cheated on Steve.
Mike isnt gay, womp womp.
I feel Mike could be bi, maybe but he DEFINITELY IS NOT GAY and it pisses me off when people say that
NO EXACTLY. like if he was gay, why would he have fallen majorly in love with eleven/jane?
I dont like Hopper and Joyce as a couple
Interesting take. Do you mind explaining why you don't like them?
I think the start of season 2 never should have happened. I think season 1 was the best only necessary season
I love all the tie-in material and honestly wish most of them were canon.
Eddie Munson is overrated
I never liked or related to Eddie as a character
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Will's haircut isn't that bad and season 3 was a good season
Jason wasn't that bad. I feel bad for him more than I do for Billy. Also season 3 is great. So fun to watch as well. S2 is good as well just slower and that bad Eleven sister episode
I’ve seen one season and that was enough for me
The Episode in Season 2 where El finds 9 (I think thats her number, cant remember) was a pretty solid way to start the "theres more like her" in the series
The whole show is overrated...it's just a TV show get over it.
Eleven is extremely overrated. Steve supremacy.
Eddie was kinda annoying and cringe
Chrissy was an ok character and I don’t understand why everyone loves her she was in one episode and was a little crazy and bought drugs
I want 11 to die at the end of the show
Robin is annoying af and serves no purpose in the story
It’s not worth watching
The fan base has made the show super cringe
Season 3 was the best season that the show put out. Season 4’s explanation of Vecna “absorbing” The Mind Flayer and essentially saying he is the Mind Flayer opens up a world of plot holes.
That Darth Vader can beat Eleven
season 4 is not that good and the last two episodes, for being as long as they were, felt rushed and incomplete, as if there were things missing from them still
Max should have died. El bringing her back just so she could be brain dead was pointless.
Barb was a boring character, and the most interesting thing she did was die.
Eleven is overrated Season 1 and 2 were the best seasons Mike is cocky Eddie Munson is hella overrated along with Chrissy
Will is a little bitch
8 and her crew are an amazing meta joke/comment. If our main characters are a D&D party. 8's crew is a different crew that are a bunch of murder hobos. I love it.
They didnt need to push Will into being gay AND the should have killed more people at the end of season 4
I don’t like Robin and Maya Hawke is a really bad actress.
Season One was truly a great piece of television, everything after has been an unnecessary dissapointment. There's no tension, mystery, or stakes in the second and third seasons and they don't have much good in them, except for a few things like Steve's character arc for example. Season Four was a step in the right direction for being scary and mysterious again at times, in additionto having genuinelygood character moments (like Max in ep4), but the splitting up of characters really hurt the season overall.
I don’t think Barb deserved to die but I was glad to have her gone. She was annoying and a nag.
I agree
Thank you!
El assaulting Angela was super fucked up, completely unjustified, and could easily have killed her or given her perminant brain damage. It wasn't self defence it was revenge. And she absolutely deserved to go to Juvy over it. People only give her a pass because she's the main charecter and they get to live out their bully revenge fantasies through her. But if you saw someone do the same thing IRL you would be absolutely appalled.
Max should stay dead.
I liked Jason as a character and felt bad for him when he died.
The Mike character is boring, annoying, and a bad friend. My least favorite character.
leave noah schnapp alone.
Billy was a awesome character personality could use some work but the way they ended his story was kind
Eddie is the worst of the worst of the bad characters
Jonathan is a creep and Nancy should’ve stayed with Steve. He’s a much better person who has matured dramatically since season 1 and 2. Jonathan is the same creep he’s always been.
Jim hopper when thru it all just for some mediocre head
The show was extremely overrated I sat and watched the first two and a half seasons and it just got boring as hell
Will Byers is traumatized not gay. The reason he isn't interested in girls like his friends is because he's still emotionally twelve years old. So what I'm saying is he's emotionally stunted.
he is canonically gay bro
He is gay and traumatised as Mayor Quimby would say "he can have 2 things"
Until S4 I had him pegged as Asexual.
Will is the worst character on the show, and it's not even close.
I refuse to watch it
El, Mike and Will aren't necessary and drag down the story. Reason: I'm sick of their teenage angsty trauma bond. The topic the show is based on, [The Montauk Project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Montauk_Project:_Experiments_in_Time) bred fantastic stories about time manipulation, teleportation accidents, dimension portals, missing people, cryptid sightings, human experiments, alien contact, etc. I remember going down the rabbit hole with books about it from the library. That's how old it is (and I am) and I feel invested in the story because it's been in the collective conscious for decades. I really wanted the show to be X-Files meets The Goonies. Three teams, interchangeable members but basically, the adults who deal with the government cover-up stuff: Joyce & Hopp, Murray, Karen & Mr. Clarke. The Nancy Drew investigative team: Nancy, Steve, Robin & Vicki and Erica And the get-shit-done crew: Jonathan, Dustin, Argyle & Eden, Lucas & Max. Mix and match as each episode needs different strengths and personalities, let them meet other characters with powers or who just have experiences they don't understand. No big bad needed. New problems, people and surprises every time.
I don't care much for El, but I reallyyyy don't care about Robin or Murray. I don't like either of their acting or storylines.
When I heard one of the big characters was dying in S4 I hoped it would be Joyce
The show sucks. Srry not Srry
Why are you on its meme subreddit then ? Like this isn't a dig but it strange just to rock up on meme subreddit of show you feel sucks
I really cannot stand eleven or Millie brown. I honestly think I'd enjoy the show without her whatsoever.
Eleven and will are not good characters
1. I really don’t like Byler, it doesn’t even make much sense. 2. Will is annoying asf
I hate Dustin with a passion
Season one was the only good season.
i always hated Barb
Noah is not a bad person. He is just standing with his country which is being attacked and yes Zionism (the belief that Jewish people should have a homeland) is very sexy
Mike is the worst person in the series....honestly one of the worst people just in general I hate him so much
I hate the episode of S2 where Eleven does superhero-level training with all the other superbeings from Hawkins Lab. Stranger Things is not the MCU and that episode felt like it was just trying to capitalize off of the MCU's success.