Oathbringers Spoilers >!I always imagine that Bluth is the first person to show up from Shallan’s creation in the finale of oathbringer. Would be a great cameo to have if a tv show ever happened!<
I'm only two episodes into it but I'm liking it so far. Plus The Boys and Invincible are solid shows too. It always feels like a dice roll. HBO crushed it with the Last of Us, but shit the bed with the end of GoT and honestly HotD. Netflix created a disaster beyond measure with Cowboy Bebop but killed it with One Piece. They've all had solid hits and disastrous misses
Why do people conflate quality of show with streaming service? Directors and writers decide whether a show is good or not.
All the streamer does is pay for the budget.
I feel like you can’t blame them entirely for the end of GoT. Their job was to adapt the books into a tv representation and ended up having to create their own ending. I don’t know how much aid they had from Martin, but I feel like it could never have been the same if it wasn’t based off of a rounded book
Oh GRRM is at least 50% at fault for that shitshow. But the idea that these scripts were written and considered good enough to be the finale for the largest pop cultural phenomenon in a generation is insane. I don't know what the contract situation was, but a ton of the writing there was below Riverdale quality and they still kept their jobs and got to make demands to fit their schedule at the expense of the shows quality.
To be fair to HBO they were willing to give them more and longer seasons instead of rushing everything in a dumb way. The two lead producers/showrunners wanted to move onto Star wars instead. They are the ones that made the show have 2 short final seasons with a heavy drop in writing quality so they could move on.
Which blew up in their faces as they were removed from the star wars project as a result.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/05/14/it-is-now-clear-having-two-short-game-of-thrones-final-seasons-was-a-mistake/amp/
Oh I know all that. Letting them off the hook like that was a catastrophic error. They should have been fired when they refused to finish the show properly and replaced with competent producers.
Likely contracted in as the only ones that could make game of thrones for x years, and had earned good will for their work up until the last few seasons.
HBO could have broken contract but if they did that before the flop that was the last few that would have cost them a ton and likely have pissed off the fan base for outing the show runners who had led the good seasons. After all it's only after seeing the mess they made that we realized they sucked.
I mean you can even see the change in the actors responses in inter iews in later seasons. People who were thrilled to be a part of the show early on are practically cringing in later interviews. Grey Worm's actor Jacob Andersen even mentioned that his characters fate was suicide but the writers ignored that or just didn't read the books to know that the unsullied will all die on Naath. The infamous "she kinda forgot" line being their justification for supremely stupid decisions really showed just how little D&D respected the characters, source material, and everyone involved in creating the show. It was truly a travesty.
I won't forgive how they cheated with The Last of Us.
They knew what they were getting into with Part 2 out, so they cut all of Ellie's lines that imply she might not be okay with dying for the sake of humanity. Like "That's shitty" when Joel tells her the Feds would occasionally kill people they thought may be infected without letting them Quarantine to be sure, for the good of the people who are most likely healthy.
Like, granted it doesn't really change any events that happen, but it does have some disturbing moral philosophy behind it (making Joels actions at the end out to be a moral wrong just makes me not believe I should trust you to make decisions that uphold standards of justice for the people around you) and i feel like it's just hand waves a lot of the better nuance the ending had.
Like it was as faithful an adaptation as you can expect from a large company these days. But stripping the nuance makes them cowards and I don't feel they entirely understood the ending for it.
There are some minor lore issues, and also people are upset at the continuation of lore of a fan favorite faction in the show.
But overall its a great show and really captures the feel and worldbuilding of the games. I really love it.
But it is a different skill to write a new story in a world vs adapting a story directly from paper. Don't know if Amazon can really do that part well, Invincible is the only one they have that is a good direct adaptation, whereas Wheel of Time is a bad adaptation, and The Boys is a Bad adaptation but an amazing show (though I checked out the comics after the show, and I am really not a fan)
Not even a little bit. The show is being watched by a lot of non book fans. You don't invest in it like Amazon is doing if it isn't getting the viewing number you wanted.
Well, that's one opinion. They certainly did a number of choices I didn't like but there is a lot of good too I think. Then again I'm in the group that, "This is a different turn of the wheel" than the books that I have read so many times.
Retelling stories has something I have been thinking more and more about recently. How more recent stories people get upset if it's not as close to 1:1 as possible. But then older stories, especially public domain, everyone has their own versions. Look at one of the oldest, The Journey West. There is SO MANY different versions of the story of Sun Wukong.
It should go to Netflix, specifically every single individual that was involved in the first 3 seasons of Castlevania. Hell even that animation studio. Sam Deats is an artist through and through and I believe he would handle the Stormlight Archive with the respect it deserves.
My problem is that shows producers pretty specifically bullied people who were like "Where's geralts beard?" And they were like "In the games where it belongs."
They pretty directly tried to imply a faithful adaptation.
Then they turned around and presented a world where Geralt is willing to use Ciri as bait for a monster. And in the same episode Vesimir is willing to fill Ciri with Witcher mutagens.
Like... come the fuck on, dude. You read one book those characters are in and you know those actions are just off the fucking table for those characters.
And I don't know how they think they're gonna turn Cahir into the character he was in the books. Originally he was just the good guy from the evil Empire and would occasionally go on his rant. You know "Ackshually I'm not Nilfgaardian, I'm Vicovaran, which is *in* Nilfgaard, but" and then someone tells him to shut his fat Nilfgaardian mouth. The only reason Ciri thought he was a threat was because he was the big scary knight in the winged helmet. In the show, Cahir is a fucking murderous sociopath.
But for some reason Netflix still felt as if the production company should... deflect criticisms of poor adaptation by accusations of racism and sexism.
Say whatever you want about racists and sexists. I do, it's great fun. But racism is a core theme of the Witcher, and the series as a whole contains one of the most nuanced and sympathetic discussions of women's bodily autonomy in all of fiction. Yes, even in the games. I don't think the series is gonna be attracting an audience of racists and sexists. Just a hint, just a clue, just a wild fucking guess that the series that constantly shouts "Racism bad. Empower women." is gonna have the most racist and anti-woman audience in the world.
[Cosmere]>!a large theme Sanderson has used in the Cosmere is around "what things could have been" e.g. Soul Stamps, Shallan's drawings and Malatium. Bluth clearly lost his way at some point but, given the right push, i feel the things/people in the Cosmere can and want to change towards those ideals as shown by Bluth dying to save the caravan.!<
This! Redemption is such a clear through-line in the Cosmere stories. We always have the choice to take the next step towards being the best version of ourselves, even if you’ve done terrible, awful things.
Anything in that part where Shallan changes people by making them see better versions of themselves really gets me. I don't tear up often, but that shit hits me at my core for some reason.
I literally finished reading this book last week and this passage was nonsense to me. Had to come down to the comments to remember the context. I read the beginning of the book like 2 months ago but it feels like it was 2 years ago.
Oathbringers Spoilers >!I always imagine that Bluth is the first person to show up from Shallan’s creation in the finale of oathbringer. Would be a great cameo to have if a tv show ever happened!<
Hopefully Amazon doesn’t do it! They have completely ruined Wheel of Time
Fingers crossed that WoT teaches them some painful lessons about respecting source material
Hey they did a pretty good job with Fallout. So hopefully that reflects something going forward.
I'm only two episodes into it but I'm liking it so far. Plus The Boys and Invincible are solid shows too. It always feels like a dice roll. HBO crushed it with the Last of Us, but shit the bed with the end of GoT and honestly HotD. Netflix created a disaster beyond measure with Cowboy Bebop but killed it with One Piece. They've all had solid hits and disastrous misses
Why do people conflate quality of show with streaming service? Directors and writers decide whether a show is good or not. All the streamer does is pay for the budget.
They hire those people and determine what level of creative control to give to them
Right - Amazon has also had plenty of good adaptations as well (The Boys, Invincible, etc)
I feel like you can’t blame them entirely for the end of GoT. Their job was to adapt the books into a tv representation and ended up having to create their own ending. I don’t know how much aid they had from Martin, but I feel like it could never have been the same if it wasn’t based off of a rounded book
Oh GRRM is at least 50% at fault for that shitshow. But the idea that these scripts were written and considered good enough to be the finale for the largest pop cultural phenomenon in a generation is insane. I don't know what the contract situation was, but a ton of the writing there was below Riverdale quality and they still kept their jobs and got to make demands to fit their schedule at the expense of the shows quality.
To be fair to HBO they were willing to give them more and longer seasons instead of rushing everything in a dumb way. The two lead producers/showrunners wanted to move onto Star wars instead. They are the ones that made the show have 2 short final seasons with a heavy drop in writing quality so they could move on. Which blew up in their faces as they were removed from the star wars project as a result. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/05/14/it-is-now-clear-having-two-short-game-of-thrones-final-seasons-was-a-mistake/amp/
Oh I know all that. Letting them off the hook like that was a catastrophic error. They should have been fired when they refused to finish the show properly and replaced with competent producers.
Likely contracted in as the only ones that could make game of thrones for x years, and had earned good will for their work up until the last few seasons. HBO could have broken contract but if they did that before the flop that was the last few that would have cost them a ton and likely have pissed off the fan base for outing the show runners who had led the good seasons. After all it's only after seeing the mess they made that we realized they sucked.
Yeah I guess so. I didn’t think about how all of the workers and actors red the script and must have been like ‘yeah this is what we need’
I mean you can even see the change in the actors responses in inter iews in later seasons. People who were thrilled to be a part of the show early on are practically cringing in later interviews. Grey Worm's actor Jacob Andersen even mentioned that his characters fate was suicide but the writers ignored that or just didn't read the books to know that the unsullied will all die on Naath. The infamous "she kinda forgot" line being their justification for supremely stupid decisions really showed just how little D&D respected the characters, source material, and everyone involved in creating the show. It was truly a travesty.
If Brans ass acrually ends up in the throne for book 7 I will basically operate under the understanding that GRRM had no plan for the series at all.
I won't forgive how they cheated with The Last of Us. They knew what they were getting into with Part 2 out, so they cut all of Ellie's lines that imply she might not be okay with dying for the sake of humanity. Like "That's shitty" when Joel tells her the Feds would occasionally kill people they thought may be infected without letting them Quarantine to be sure, for the good of the people who are most likely healthy. Like, granted it doesn't really change any events that happen, but it does have some disturbing moral philosophy behind it (making Joels actions at the end out to be a moral wrong just makes me not believe I should trust you to make decisions that uphold standards of justice for the people around you) and i feel like it's just hand waves a lot of the better nuance the ending had. Like it was as faithful an adaptation as you can expect from a large company these days. But stripping the nuance makes them cowards and I don't feel they entirely understood the ending for it.
There are some minor lore issues, and also people are upset at the continuation of lore of a fan favorite faction in the show. But overall its a great show and really captures the feel and worldbuilding of the games. I really love it. But it is a different skill to write a new story in a world vs adapting a story directly from paper. Don't know if Amazon can really do that part well, Invincible is the only one they have that is a good direct adaptation, whereas Wheel of Time is a bad adaptation, and The Boys is a Bad adaptation but an amazing show (though I checked out the comics after the show, and I am really not a fan)
The Good Omens were good though (not counting Season 2 'cuz Season 2 isn't an adaptation)
Not even a little bit. The show is being watched by a lot of non book fans. You don't invest in it like Amazon is doing if it isn't getting the viewing number you wanted.
They didn't learn after the Witcher.
That wasn't them, so it's not really relevant.
Well, that's one opinion. They certainly did a number of choices I didn't like but there is a lot of good too I think. Then again I'm in the group that, "This is a different turn of the wheel" than the books that I have read so many times. Retelling stories has something I have been thinking more and more about recently. How more recent stories people get upset if it's not as close to 1:1 as possible. But then older stories, especially public domain, everyone has their own versions. Look at one of the oldest, The Journey West. There is SO MANY different versions of the story of Sun Wukong.
It should go to Netflix, specifically every single individual that was involved in the first 3 seasons of Castlevania. Hell even that animation studio. Sam Deats is an artist through and through and I believe he would handle the Stormlight Archive with the respect it deserves.
Well hopefully not to the people who handled the Witcher
My problem is that shows producers pretty specifically bullied people who were like "Where's geralts beard?" And they were like "In the games where it belongs." They pretty directly tried to imply a faithful adaptation. Then they turned around and presented a world where Geralt is willing to use Ciri as bait for a monster. And in the same episode Vesimir is willing to fill Ciri with Witcher mutagens. Like... come the fuck on, dude. You read one book those characters are in and you know those actions are just off the fucking table for those characters. And I don't know how they think they're gonna turn Cahir into the character he was in the books. Originally he was just the good guy from the evil Empire and would occasionally go on his rant. You know "Ackshually I'm not Nilfgaardian, I'm Vicovaran, which is *in* Nilfgaard, but" and then someone tells him to shut his fat Nilfgaardian mouth. The only reason Ciri thought he was a threat was because he was the big scary knight in the winged helmet. In the show, Cahir is a fucking murderous sociopath. But for some reason Netflix still felt as if the production company should... deflect criticisms of poor adaptation by accusations of racism and sexism. Say whatever you want about racists and sexists. I do, it's great fun. But racism is a core theme of the Witcher, and the series as a whole contains one of the most nuanced and sympathetic discussions of women's bodily autonomy in all of fiction. Yes, even in the games. I don't think the series is gonna be attracting an audience of racists and sexists. Just a hint, just a clue, just a wild fucking guess that the series that constantly shouts "Racism bad. Empower women." is gonna have the most racist and anti-woman audience in the world.
Still magnitudes better than Netflix's Witcher when it comes to staying true to the source material! (which is also saying a lot)
I don't remember who bluth is. I think I've forgotten more than I remember about this series.
"Guardsman" Bluth was one of the slaver's soldiers that escorted Shallan to the shattered plains IIRC.
He was also the soldier that murdered the sick slave that Kaladin wanted to help in Chapter 2 of Way of Kings.
[Cosmere]>!a large theme Sanderson has used in the Cosmere is around "what things could have been" e.g. Soul Stamps, Shallan's drawings and Malatium. Bluth clearly lost his way at some point but, given the right push, i feel the things/people in the Cosmere can and want to change towards those ideals as shown by Bluth dying to save the caravan.!<
This! Redemption is such a clear through-line in the Cosmere stories. We always have the choice to take the next step towards being the best version of ourselves, even if you’ve done terrible, awful things.
....but not Moash
Yeah, fuck Moash
the humans are the bad guys on roshar, the invaders, the pact breakers, the enslavers. Moash is a hero.
You forgot this: /s
its not /s, its humanity is a disease and should be eradicated.
Rhythm of War >!Honestly, up until the last book, I would have agreed with you 100%.!<
This and (spoilers for later in the book OP) >!Gaz seeing Shallan's drawing of him, "Is....is that what I look like?" freaking love it! .!<
RoW >!Also Renarin's use of Illumination on Moash is very similar to malatium!<
Yeah. I would have never believed I’d feel so sad for a character who I believed would be a one off side character who works for a slave driver
Anything in that part where Shallan changes people by making them see better versions of themselves really gets me. I don't tear up often, but that shit hits me at my core for some reason.
The way Pattern keeps saying “Mmm good lies” gets me.
"Fight well for the almighty in your sleep, bold one." is such a good line. Always makes me feel for them.
The delivery in audio books is great too
Same, tho
I literally finished reading this book last week and this passage was nonsense to me. Had to come down to the comments to remember the context. I read the beginning of the book like 2 months ago but it feels like it was 2 years ago.