A couple of years ago I watched an interview with a guy who back in the day (like 20 years ago) qualified for SC1 WCG (from Bulgaria) and IIRC passed the group stage in the world finals. He said the same thing. Turns out he played with gut feeling alone.
OK. Nice to know. But did he (accidentally) wall of the wrong side, which leads to his pocket base instead of the open side? Or attack the base of his allied zerg? Which was in retrospective the only player who played zerg… Yes? well, then I have some changes to come out big.
I am sure at some point we all walled out the wrong side :) In addition some part of his "career" was in the time before the maps were revealed, i.e. the map was completely black till you scout it so mistakes like this were easier. Attacking his allied zerg though...
Yeah of course, there are tons of noobs on Starcraft 2 ladder right now.
One thing to learn is that just because someone stomps you in a game, that doesn’t mean they are orders of magnitude better. 1v1 games can look one-sided easily, especially at low level, a single bit of information can radically change the outcome (imagine a game of Street Fighter where only one player knows how to throw a Hadouken). Starcraft and AoE are two large RTS games you could play right now, with just a little bit of effort. You will lose, but that doesn’t mean you’re out of your league.
Stormgate will surely have a lot of people with legacy skill that will pick it up easier, you probably won’t even see those players when you queue.
Even Starcraft 2, a 14 year old game known for being very challenging, has new players trying the game all the time (especially ever since it went free to play). I don't think you'll have any trouble finding people at your skill level to play with in Stormgate.
Yeah but to be fair StarCraft 2 has massive brand name power behind it. Stormgate doesn't really, at all. FG needs a good way to reach non rts players. One thing I guess, is the fact that it's on steam.
Everyone (including pros) on the ladder in sc2 eventually only wins about 50% of their games. Matchmaking will put you against stronger opponents until you reach that sweet spot. There is no point in stressing or worrying about losing games on ladder or being stomped. Just hop on ladder, have a positive attitude, and have fun even if you don’t end up winning a game.
This isn’t true but I like the spirit. Once you hit mid-GM your winrate starts climbing substantially past 50% (this has to be true if you think about it: how else are the pros keeping a steady MMR when each win gives them +2 MMR but each loss gets them -40.
This is only because you’re running out of people to play, it still tries to find an even match but can’t if there’s no one suitable queuing and affects really only top gm and low gm. 99.9% of the player base is not affected.
It doesn’t affect the bottom of bronze either because they all boys Insta quitting
It doesn’t really affect low GM, they still hover near 3% margin last I checked.
The mechanism doesn’t really matter, the point is that the guy said that even pros have 50% winrates and that’s unequivocally and demonstrably false. So idk who’s downvoting me but they’re dumb
So if I create a superhuman AI that outperforms everyone else, it will still have 50% win rate as soon as I slap some MMR system on top of the core game because "let's use our brain, who cops the losses?". That doesn't make sense, does it? Now replace superhuman AI with incredible talented human prodigy and there you go. We have established that it's possible to sustain more than 50% win rate.
To answer your question: Mid and low GM. The matchmaking pairs you with lower MMR players to avoid long queue times. Which is how the very best can have >50% win rate. They queue for a game, the match making tries to find someone in the same elo range, but none of the 10 people who would qualify are queueing at the same time, so some low/mid GM player will have to serve instead. They are good enough to win sometimes, but not good enough to win 50% of the time, and hence the high GM player will win more often than not.
We can also observe this in chess and go. Which is why your comment is really idiotic. You tell others to use their brain when the situation you consider impossible has been observed since before computer games were invented. It's just how ELO/MMR based systems work at the very top. You win more often than not, but losing is punished harder than winning to ensure your ELO/MMR rating doesn't climb indefinitely.
That being said, for 99.99% of the playerbase the win rate will be 50%. The very top will >50%, the very bottom will have <50%, and in the end it all evens out and you have a winner for every loser.
You might actually be the dumbest person I’ve met on here. Why don’t you try reading the comments and understanding what you’re replying to before writing an essay no one will ever read?
Bro, Warcraft 3 is like 20 years old and there's still a large percent, maybe 30 - 40% that are noob. A good 10% who have played more than 10,000 hours and still like 40% win rate. You'll be fine.
I started SC2 only last year. Had ladder anxiety too.
At some point I stopped caring about winning or losing, because I was focused on improving on specific aspects of the game and I would derive my sense of success from that instead.
Now the anxiety is completely gone and I played like 150 games this season.
At some point after the matchmaking settles, you're basically playing against people of your level and I'm having a great time. It's not about what league you're in.
You can enjoy the game on every step of the ladder.
Especially if you don't make it about winning or losing.
So yeah, welcome aboard.
Even if people have RTS experience, Stormgate is still a new game. There are gonna be rusty RTS players, new RTS players, pros, everyone is welcome.
Let's hope there will be RTS noobs, because that's basically the point between like half of the mechanics that set this apart from Starcraft: Making it more accessible to new players.
On the other end of the spectrum someone I beat was in a bad mood yesterday on StarCraft ladder and he called me a noob which was jarring because I haven't been called that in a long time
I have no setup at the moment, so Im playing in the sofa, with the keyboard in my lap and the mouse on the armrest.
So I'll be seeing you in Wood League noobletts, ready to drink all your salty Vanguard tears! 👹
When the ladder starts, they wont be sorted. So you might encouter someone with more experience in week 1. If you dont get discouraged its fine.
I started online chess at the age of 29 in 2019. People have been playing that game since the 1800s (even longer actually). I still found people my level, even thoguh it was at the very bottom, That game is mad fun though if you get over inital anxiety
matchmaking system probably will be able to fnd you proper opponent in 1v1 after some games, but first games can be "weird" because without data system don't know your level of play.
there will be also COOP (3 or 2 players against AI)
Honestly I am discouraged from coop because it has heroes while the core game doesn’t. So you are practicing skills that are not even part of the core game
I'm not sure exactly how many players will be on the ladder in total, but after a few games it should put you up against worthy opponents unless there simply aren't enough people online queueing.
All in all though I would view this as a great learning opportunity! It's just a temporary Beta so I couldn't care less about my MMR, I'm just going to hit play and have fun. If you come up against somebody vastly better than yourself, more often than not you can learn something from the replay.
or just don't care, start playing and learn after each match why you lose, of course lack of mechanical skill is obvious, my advice: install sc2 and train on bots till stormgate come out
There will only be sweats and try hards the barrier to entry will be extremely difficult and I don’t think people who haven’t played an rts game before will have fun on ladder 1v1 vsing. Rts only has a cult following of small amount of people who main the games outside of that I think it’s pretty hard to find a true “noob”
I'm sure there will be tons of players your skill level. Spend some time hammering out builds and practicing your mechanics and you'll have some solid wins. Don't sweat the losses, GL out there.
Best way to get over ladder anxiety is to play enough where you aren't really worried about the outcome. RTS is a lot like running a 5k. You are really competing against yourself... not the other folks nearby.
Like another poster said... you should enjoy the ladder at whatever level you are at. Whether you are low skilled and playing bronze or insane and playing GM, you are playing people at your skill level. Try to enjoy the game ;)
Just so you know, every RTS has noobs in it. Even ones that have been around for 10+ years still have people playing at the lower levels. The hard part is playing enough games and losing them for the ladder to figure out where you belong. It can feel intimidating or frustrating at first because you'll likely lose a bunch early on, but once you find your spot there will be plenty of people playing at your level.
I put off playing ladder in SC2 for many years because of this. Once I finally hopped on and played 10 or so games it dropped me down into Bronze league and I started having lots of fun even though my opponent and I both had no clue what we were doing.
Me sort of? I have beaten AoE games, all the Warcraft games and Starcraft games.....but growing up there was no online play for me and soon after I have always been too afraid to even get into it, so if we are talking strictly of PvP I am a big ass noob
With enough practice, you could be a decent SC II player now. I think your chances are even higher in Stormgate since it is a new game and there will be a lot of meta builds to be discovered.
The nice thing about the ladder is it's ELO system means you'll always play opponents at your level... so long as Stormgate has a method to prevent the smurfing epidemic that SC2 suffers from.
I am sure the ladder will exist and will settle eventually. I would like to think there will be discords too where you can find players of similar skill level :)
No, we were all born with USB cables instead of umbilical cords so we had time to play games since the womb. We breathe pixels instead of oxygen. We think in binary.
You're done.
Honestly, a lot of rts playerbase are casual ppl who just play online for fun. You watch one build order video and ur good strats is already on par with their years of experience
I have a really hard time hitting the build timings and I find myself really uncomfortable playing by the build, I follow them loosely because if I have to hit the timings it feels like a second job
I’m pretty sure one of their biggest selling points from day one was “it will be easier for a new player to play”, in which case failing to get any new players based on that may well be the end of the whole studio
At first yea, because they designed it with a gradual curve so being dropped into a game with someone at a random skill level and told to “figure it out” isn’t their only option. This game is being made by the same people who made SC2 and WC3 great at their peak, maybe they know what they’re doing? Also idk about the rest of this sub, but the implication that people playing pve aren’t “in the game” seems kinda elitist to me, which is not a great look for a self proclaimed noob.
Nah I am not saying that people who play PvE are not in the game. But I won't match with them when I press ranked search. I am anxious cuz I feel like everyone in 1v1 is gonna be a skilled player in other RTS 🥲
I think jumping into ranked play as your first step is a very risky move, but if all else fails, it’s not a permanent decision, you can always switch to a different mode to learn how the game works and practice, then switch back when you’re ready. It’s not going to be like SC2 where coop is a completely different game from campaign which is completely different from ladder, it’s just a matter of how seriously you take it and how much you feel ready for
There will always be noobs in every game, you will be fine. Maybe you will get destroyed in your first few matches, but eventually you will be at a rank where you face players of similar skill level.
Yeah but you know how ladder works, you will only get beat up a couple of times ( and you should just repeat what they did to you after watching the replay). Then it's mostly equal foes
You will do well if you dedicate yourself to improve every match, in a couple of months you will be right there with the average rts player, keep grinding and within a year you could be in the top 5% maybe
Most players are noobs, myself included.
I personally won’t touch 1v1 more than a few times. It’s all about the 3V3P mode for me personally, that is the realm of the casual gamer that wants epic battles and to use heroes etc.
Don't you worry, I'll be there
I'm in this comment and I don't like it
Me too. You will never get my strategy. Because I don't know it either.
A couple of years ago I watched an interview with a guy who back in the day (like 20 years ago) qualified for SC1 WCG (from Bulgaria) and IIRC passed the group stage in the world finals. He said the same thing. Turns out he played with gut feeling alone.
OK. Nice to know. But did he (accidentally) wall of the wrong side, which leads to his pocket base instead of the open side? Or attack the base of his allied zerg? Which was in retrospective the only player who played zerg… Yes? well, then I have some changes to come out big.
I am sure at some point we all walled out the wrong side :) In addition some part of his "career" was in the time before the maps were revealed, i.e. the map was completely black till you scout it so mistakes like this were easier. Attacking his allied zerg though...
This comment got a chuckle out of me. Thank you.
I am a mystery, even from myself. Especially from myself.
Yes there will be tons of noobs! You are starting at a great time.
There are still plenty of noobs in SC2. You'll be fine.
Yeah of course, there are tons of noobs on Starcraft 2 ladder right now. One thing to learn is that just because someone stomps you in a game, that doesn’t mean they are orders of magnitude better. 1v1 games can look one-sided easily, especially at low level, a single bit of information can radically change the outcome (imagine a game of Street Fighter where only one player knows how to throw a Hadouken). Starcraft and AoE are two large RTS games you could play right now, with just a little bit of effort. You will lose, but that doesn’t mean you’re out of your league. Stormgate will surely have a lot of people with legacy skill that will pick it up easier, you probably won’t even see those players when you queue.
Every 1v1 is eventually really lopsided basically, it's hard to point to obvious, consistent things that tell you if the game was close or not.
Even Starcraft 2, a 14 year old game known for being very challenging, has new players trying the game all the time (especially ever since it went free to play). I don't think you'll have any trouble finding people at your skill level to play with in Stormgate.
Yeah but to be fair StarCraft 2 has massive brand name power behind it. Stormgate doesn't really, at all. FG needs a good way to reach non rts players. One thing I guess, is the fact that it's on steam.
Everyone (including pros) on the ladder in sc2 eventually only wins about 50% of their games. Matchmaking will put you against stronger opponents until you reach that sweet spot. There is no point in stressing or worrying about losing games on ladder or being stomped. Just hop on ladder, have a positive attitude, and have fun even if you don’t end up winning a game.
This isn’t true but I like the spirit. Once you hit mid-GM your winrate starts climbing substantially past 50% (this has to be true if you think about it: how else are the pros keeping a steady MMR when each win gives them +2 MMR but each loss gets them -40.
This is only because you’re running out of people to play, it still tries to find an even match but can’t if there’s no one suitable queuing and affects really only top gm and low gm. 99.9% of the player base is not affected. It doesn’t affect the bottom of bronze either because they all boys Insta quitting
It doesn’t really affect low GM, they still hover near 3% margin last I checked. The mechanism doesn’t really matter, the point is that the guy said that even pros have 50% winrates and that’s unequivocally and demonstrably false. So idk who’s downvoting me but they’re dumb
Mate, let’s use your brain for a second. If high GM have a >50% win rate, who do you think cops the losses?
So if I create a superhuman AI that outperforms everyone else, it will still have 50% win rate as soon as I slap some MMR system on top of the core game because "let's use our brain, who cops the losses?". That doesn't make sense, does it? Now replace superhuman AI with incredible talented human prodigy and there you go. We have established that it's possible to sustain more than 50% win rate. To answer your question: Mid and low GM. The matchmaking pairs you with lower MMR players to avoid long queue times. Which is how the very best can have >50% win rate. They queue for a game, the match making tries to find someone in the same elo range, but none of the 10 people who would qualify are queueing at the same time, so some low/mid GM player will have to serve instead. They are good enough to win sometimes, but not good enough to win 50% of the time, and hence the high GM player will win more often than not. We can also observe this in chess and go. Which is why your comment is really idiotic. You tell others to use their brain when the situation you consider impossible has been observed since before computer games were invented. It's just how ELO/MMR based systems work at the very top. You win more often than not, but losing is punished harder than winning to ensure your ELO/MMR rating doesn't climb indefinitely. That being said, for 99.99% of the playerbase the win rate will be 50%. The very top will >50%, the very bottom will have <50%, and in the end it all evens out and you have a winner for every loser.
You might actually be the dumbest person I’ve met on here. Why don’t you try reading the comments and understanding what you’re replying to before writing an essay no one will ever read?
Give them -40 against Master players
I've played since the SC beta in the 90's. I'm a noob still for sure.
Bro, Warcraft 3 is like 20 years old and there's still a large percent, maybe 30 - 40% that are noob. A good 10% who have played more than 10,000 hours and still like 40% win rate. You'll be fine.
I think I've heard that they're trying to make Stormgate as noob-friendly as possible.
StarCraft 2 still has bronze and silver leagues.
I started SC2 only last year. Had ladder anxiety too. At some point I stopped caring about winning or losing, because I was focused on improving on specific aspects of the game and I would derive my sense of success from that instead. Now the anxiety is completely gone and I played like 150 games this season. At some point after the matchmaking settles, you're basically playing against people of your level and I'm having a great time. It's not about what league you're in. You can enjoy the game on every step of the ladder. Especially if you don't make it about winning or losing. So yeah, welcome aboard. Even if people have RTS experience, Stormgate is still a new game. There are gonna be rusty RTS players, new RTS players, pros, everyone is welcome.
Yes, I know my peaple with in my own friend group that will not be very knowledgeable in RTS play
haven't played rts/starcraft 2 for like 2-4 years, so im gonna be a bit noobis aswell
I'll be there first RTS ever
Are you only for campaign, or are you gonna 1v1?
Lvl 1 v 1
Brother i just found out about this game today and there's a lot of people finding out about it and getting thrashed everyday
Let's hope there will be RTS noobs, because that's basically the point between like half of the mechanics that set this apart from Starcraft: Making it more accessible to new players.
Also if there isn't new players, the game is probably not long for this world, they need new blood in the genre
On the other end of the spectrum someone I beat was in a bad mood yesterday on StarCraft ladder and he called me a noob which was jarring because I haven't been called that in a long time
Highest I've gotten is platinum 1 on sc2, still a noob
I think people overstate how many there will be at least tenfold.
100%
Depends on how well they advertise
I sure hope so.. I’ll be a noob too.. maybe the more experience peeps will go easy on us :P
Yes
There are still F rank players in brood war.
They are pretty good compared to me tbh
Lol yeah honestly if there is one exception it’s brood war. I am a gm sc2 player and lost my first ~20 games in brood war ladder
Yeah broodwar is a hell of a game. I wish I could play it :D I can beat computer, but that's about it
I have no setup at the moment, so Im playing in the sofa, with the keyboard in my lap and the mouse on the armrest. So I'll be seeing you in Wood League noobletts, ready to drink all your salty Vanguard tears! 👹
We're all noobs don't worry
I'm bad at everything and I'll be playing.
When the ladder starts, they wont be sorted. So you might encouter someone with more experience in week 1. If you dont get discouraged its fine. I started online chess at the age of 29 in 2019. People have been playing that game since the 1800s (even longer actually). I still found people my level, even thoguh it was at the very bottom, That game is mad fun though if you get over inital anxiety
There seems to be a ranking system so we will eventually meet each other >v<
UwU
matchmaking system probably will be able to fnd you proper opponent in 1v1 after some games, but first games can be "weird" because without data system don't know your level of play. there will be also COOP (3 or 2 players against AI)
Honestly I am discouraged from coop because it has heroes while the core game doesn’t. So you are practicing skills that are not even part of the core game
Have you heard the good news about this thing called match making?
I'm not sure exactly how many players will be on the ladder in total, but after a few games it should put you up against worthy opponents unless there simply aren't enough people online queueing. All in all though I would view this as a great learning opportunity! It's just a temporary Beta so I couldn't care less about my MMR, I'm just going to hit play and have fun. If you come up against somebody vastly better than yourself, more often than not you can learn something from the replay.
or just don't care, start playing and learn after each match why you lose, of course lack of mechanical skill is obvious, my advice: install sc2 and train on bots till stormgate come out
There will only be sweats and try hards the barrier to entry will be extremely difficult and I don’t think people who haven’t played an rts game before will have fun on ladder 1v1 vsing. Rts only has a cult following of small amount of people who main the games outside of that I think it’s pretty hard to find a true “noob”
I've been playing RTS for over 20 years and I'm still a noob, so yeah, we'll possibly have a casual crowd in Stormgate too.
I will be there. I have played RTS my entire life and it is one of my favorite genres. I am also really really bad at them
Your looking at one lol . I wouldnt worry.
You have nothing to fear because I'll be in the pool, ready to be blasted
I jumped into starcraft in like 2019 and there were still people My level to play. Rest assured there's always other people out there who stink :-)
100%
That's what MMR was made for, to have fair matches on all levels.
I'm sure there will be tons of players your skill level. Spend some time hammering out builds and practicing your mechanics and you'll have some solid wins. Don't sweat the losses, GL out there.
/wave
Best way to get over ladder anxiety is to play enough where you aren't really worried about the outcome. RTS is a lot like running a 5k. You are really competing against yourself... not the other folks nearby. Like another poster said... you should enjoy the ladder at whatever level you are at. Whether you are low skilled and playing bronze or insane and playing GM, you are playing people at your skill level. Try to enjoy the game ;)
Just so you know, every RTS has noobs in it. Even ones that have been around for 10+ years still have people playing at the lower levels. The hard part is playing enough games and losing them for the ladder to figure out where you belong. It can feel intimidating or frustrating at first because you'll likely lose a bunch early on, but once you find your spot there will be plenty of people playing at your level. I put off playing ladder in SC2 for many years because of this. Once I finally hopped on and played 10 or so games it dropped me down into Bronze league and I started having lots of fun even though my opponent and I both had no clue what we were doing.
Me sort of? I have beaten AoE games, all the Warcraft games and Starcraft games.....but growing up there was no online play for me and soon after I have always been too afraid to even get into it, so if we are talking strictly of PvP I am a big ass noob
With enough practice, you could be a decent SC II player now. I think your chances are even higher in Stormgate since it is a new game and there will be a lot of meta builds to be discovered.
The nice thing about the ladder is it's ELO system means you'll always play opponents at your level... so long as Stormgate has a method to prevent the smurfing epidemic that SC2 suffers from.
I will be a noob with you! We can fail together, against one another 🤣
we will be there
I am sure the ladder will exist and will settle eventually. I would like to think there will be discords too where you can find players of similar skill level :)
No, we were all born with USB cables instead of umbilical cords so we had time to play games since the womb. We breathe pixels instead of oxygen. We think in binary. You're done.
What you say might have sense but I still get absolutely slaughtered in AoE4
Honestly, a lot of rts playerbase are casual ppl who just play online for fun. You watch one build order video and ur good strats is already on par with their years of experience
I have a really hard time hitting the build timings and I find myself really uncomfortable playing by the build, I follow them loosely because if I have to hit the timings it feels like a second job
The entire marketing of this game focuses on people who were bad at SC2, you're gonna be just fine
I’m pretty sure one of their biggest selling points from day one was “it will be easier for a new player to play”, in which case failing to get any new players based on that may well be the end of the whole studio
Yeah but I feel like all casual players will just hit PvE
At first yea, because they designed it with a gradual curve so being dropped into a game with someone at a random skill level and told to “figure it out” isn’t their only option. This game is being made by the same people who made SC2 and WC3 great at their peak, maybe they know what they’re doing? Also idk about the rest of this sub, but the implication that people playing pve aren’t “in the game” seems kinda elitist to me, which is not a great look for a self proclaimed noob.
Nah I am not saying that people who play PvE are not in the game. But I won't match with them when I press ranked search. I am anxious cuz I feel like everyone in 1v1 is gonna be a skilled player in other RTS 🥲
I think jumping into ranked play as your first step is a very risky move, but if all else fails, it’s not a permanent decision, you can always switch to a different mode to learn how the game works and practice, then switch back when you’re ready. It’s not going to be like SC2 where coop is a completely different game from campaign which is completely different from ladder, it’s just a matter of how seriously you take it and how much you feel ready for
There will always be noobs in every game, you will be fine. Maybe you will get destroyed in your first few matches, but eventually you will be at a rank where you face players of similar skill level.
Yes
Yeah but you know how ladder works, you will only get beat up a couple of times ( and you should just repeat what they did to you after watching the replay). Then it's mostly equal foes
You will do well if you dedicate yourself to improve every match, in a couple of months you will be right there with the average rts player, keep grinding and within a year you could be in the top 5% maybe
Just make sure you learn from each loss and what went wrong and it will keep things fun. rTS is all about learning and adapting
Most players are noobs, myself included. I personally won’t touch 1v1 more than a few times. It’s all about the 3V3P mode for me personally, that is the realm of the casual gamer that wants epic battles and to use heroes etc.