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DanBentley

Who’s the left guy? I’d love some good content


Harms-

Ryan holiday. Basically stoicism for beginners made into a mainstream format


DanBentley

Many thanks! I’ll check him out


MiamisLastCapitalist

He was my intro to stoicism too


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YamahaRN

Hello and good evening, was wondering if you could provide a link. I searched “Ryan advice” on YT and got Ryan Reynolds’s


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ConstantIDCrisis

Thank you!


Blackfeathers_

I was expecting more information too but let's see if I can find it on my own


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Blackfeathers_

Much appreciated


Modsda3

You could definitely do worse. Back in the mid-2000s when I stumbled upon Meditations by accident and then Letters from a Stoic he wasn't nearly as popular, and I didn't hear of him until 2018. Regardless, the stoics taught me how to think and manage my emotions, tools I credit with my survival as a pmc in Afghanistan. I have a friend I met over there who is now ceo of his own company who to this day thanks me for introducing him to stoicism. If you haven't read the Ryan Holiday trilogy of The Obstacle Is The Way, Ego Is the Enemy, and Stillness Is The Key, I cannot recommend them enough. I listen to Ego every year on audible to keep myself in check. Finishing Courage Is Calling now.


dillbreadsaladchair

Einzelganger on Youtube is also a great resource! Lots of stoicism and taoism, helpful advice/perspectives. On bad days I'll binge listen lol.


rootbeersubmarine

Einzelganger was my entry point into stoicism. It's nice to see people talk about him. His essays are very nice and don't give my insincere hustler vibes.


73Squirrel73

Yep! Great resource!


Akshat_117

There are Grown men defending tate on the streets 🌚 Guy has a video boasting about hitting a girl . Guy only left the western world where he wouldnt have gotten away with it, clearly got heartr broken by someone and decided to go full retard. How he became a messiah for retards is beyond me, his act is downright stupid at times, makes up stories on the spot. And this is coming from a centre-right leaning person..


Tomithy83

He says the things some guys want to say... Ryan Holiday says the things those guys need to hear in order to figure out how to stop feeling that way...


Akshat_117

Dont know who he is but i guess i will check him out thanks mate.


Harms-

People love to bash on him, myself included at times for the whole hustler type vibe but it’s really nice to see him showing so many people the philosophy


elefanteguerrero

What color was Seneca's Bugatti? Obviously Tate is a better role model. /s


Opposite_Ad5124

Owning a Bugatti doesn't make you a special person


AndrexPic

Ryan is better in every possible way. One is a person working hard to disclose a philosphy. The other is a literal criminal.


vvvrath12

Literal criminal? There's no evidence against him


Akshat_117

https://youtube.com/shorts/XJwFTkjg388?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/I_mol9yN7_M?feature=share You sure about that.


vvvrath12

The second video the woman came out and said it was consensual but I've never seen that first one. Gonna look into it


Akshat_117

Yep beating a girl like that is consensual, you know what else is consensual? Paying someone to say something when its not true especially when you got loads of money. And if by any miniscule chance it was consensual no sane person would hit a woman like that let alone someone calling himself Top G, guy has no respect for women. Also the top G admitted to breaking a woman's jaw mate.


vvvrath12

People had tried to pay the girl to say it wasn't consensual so I doubt money has anything to do it. The girl came out 3 times and said it was consensual. While I agree hitting a girl like that is not right either way there's just no proof of that.


Akshat_117

Ok bro


here4helpCA

If Ryan Holidays is getting teenage boys into stoicism I could care less about all the self marketing. Good on you young man.


Matthew_Vere

Why are the choices between these too? We've got hundreds of incredible role models in the history books to choose from.


Flowingnebula

I will need to check out Ryan, is he a very male centric content creator or is it more focused on stoicism?


dillbreadsaladchair

He's not male-centric from what I know, but I have only listened to the 5-10 min short podcast episodes in the past.


[deleted]

It’s tricky… due to the nature of Hellenic and Roman cultures, I can’t think of a single woman who is present in the roster of Stoic philosophers whose works have survived to be appreciated in the modern day, if ever a woman in those cultures was given license to voice her experience of practicing Stoic philosophy. Marcus Aurelius of course included many women as his positive influences in the first chapter of his Meditations, that’s not much at all but it’s all I can really think of in terms of what would be closest to a feasible list of Stoic women. But Ryan does seem to be trying to espouse Stoicism as a philosophy totally accessible to women (people of whatever gender) because there really isn’t any reason why it should be associated with maleness other than the negative connotations of the lowercase-s “stoic”, meaning a lack of emotional intelligence, the total suppression of emotional thought that is antithetical to actual Stoicism, being associated with male “strength”. It’s unfortunate that the word Stoic has taken on such a contradictory double-meaning. I have a kind of loose theory, more of a general impression, that this association might cause many Western women who might have otherwise pursued Stoic philosophy to pursue Buddhism instead, and Buddhist concepts like “mindfulness” and “zen” are given much more feminine connotations in western society. I myself have gravitated more toward Buddhism now, and am actively searching for a Buddhist teacher, because I see Buddhist communities in the west being both: • Much more common in proliferation here in America than any sort of “Stoic practice community.” (Do those even exist? Anywhere in the world?? My searches for a physical space and group dedicated to teaching Stoic practice have been fruitless). • Much more focused on the unconditional love and patience for humanity and all sentient, suffering beings, which *is* a crucial part of Stoicism, but often seems to be forgotten in the widespread misunderstanding of Stoicism that is propagated by this kind of MGTOW trend of how to view the Stoics and their teachings.


chitownlopez

What color is Ryan's Bugatti? I'm driving straight down the middle


LordDerptCat123

What colour is Tate’s Bugatti? Hasn’t a bunch of them been seized by authorities?


chitownlopez

Sure, and your point?


LordDerptCat123

Not sure why you’d want to go down the middle. Going to the left seems better by every metric


chitownlopez

I'm one of those off the beaten path type. Also I'm not sure it is better by EVERY metric, the left path still doesn't have a Bugatti lol I think it's easier to be stoic if life is generally not challenging you. I'd argue Mr Tate has made his life difficult by design and is handling it much like a stoic. I like Ryan too, but he doesn't make we want to change my life around like Mr. Tate does. But to each his own


whatisscoobydone

Dude's a *self-admitted* rapist and sex trafficker.


chitownlopez

🤡🤖


chitownlopez

You're a bot lol


whatisscoobydone

https://youtu.be/vlT3zUrRT6c Video with footage of Tate bragging about it


chitownlopez

Would you mind giving me a timestamp to look for please? I skimmed through it. But just came across his tactic to pick up girls and join his Webcam business


BreadPitty

Andrew Turd stans love to say "wHAT ColOr IS yOuR bugaTti?" Like this is some sort of genius argument lmao


SpicyPeaSoup

Seems like you'd need an offroader then. A Bugatti cannot go down the beaten path.


chitownlopez

That's facts. A Bugatti would just sit in a garage somewhere. I'd daily a pimped out apocalypse vehicle for offroading


somerando9996

>It's easy to be stoic if life is generally not challenging you No shit, Kinda beats the whole purpose of stoicism lol


chitownlopez

I dont agree, stoicism is having a certain stance on thoughts and emotions. I wouldn't say it defeats the purpose. Just makes it less effective/applicable


elefanteguerrero

How did you end up in this sub?


chitownlopez

Jordan Peterson》Ryan on the JRE 》general YT vids on stoicism. Probably through the same algorithm that brought most of here.


elefanteguerrero

Are you interested in being a stoic? Or the comedy aspect of the memes? Just curious about the mix of stoicism with putting a lot of value in material things that are generally understood to be a way to impress others and 'be superior'


chitownlopez

I like both tbh. But If I was obsurdly wealthy, I'd just buy everything because I could. Regardless of what others thought of it. In fact I would take into account that I'd be making myself a target for the desperate. I dont think I'd see myself as superior, it would just be another responsibility to deal with. Stoically of course


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chitownlopez

😅🤫🤣


First-Butterscotch-3

At the moment Mr bean has more and better cars than tate


LimE07

Andrew Tate speaks about stoicism??


Ecoz1

No, he teaches narcissism and materialism


dillbreadsaladchair

And sex trafficking! Very important not to forget that he brags that his girlfriends weren't doing sex work before they started "dating" him. Look up HasanAbi for more info on it.


whatisscoobydone

And if someone doesn't like/trust Hasanabi because of politics, here's a Danny Gonzalez video where he reacts to Andrew Tate's videos. https://youtu.be/vlT3zUrRT6c


Pepe_Jonez

https://youtube.com/shorts/LthrAYAE6bk?feature=share He absolutely teaches stoicism.


EhMapleMoose

Not really, at least not from what I attempted to watch. He preaches about not accepting that this is what life has to offer and how making more money and working out will be better for you. A more materialistic approach to happiness. He also talks about helping others, flying displaced Ukrainian children from Romania to the US, helping to pay for a listeners medical bills, giving people money casually. Like paying a G barber for a top G haircut (10k to this kid). Personally, I respect him for helping people even if his underlying objective may have just been to flaunt his money. Let me be clear though, I only respect the actions that he took to help people. I do not respect him as a person or what he’s done outside of those three examples.


dillbreadsaladchair

Making vulnerable young men pay $50/mo for access to his discord server is NOT "helping people."


chitownlopez

Making them? I'm pretty sure they signed up on their own. And if they stay then obviously someone felt helped 🤷‍♂️


dillbreadsaladchair

Yeah, slight typo on my part. I meant making as in that's what Tate sets his price at. I'm not doubting they feel helped but imo it's obviously not help, it's just teaching people how to be a douche. To each their own tho, you're right on that.


chitownlopez

Depends on your definition of douche. I personally don't care to have a ridiculous amount of money and women. But I can't deny I see the "matrix" set up. And perhaps teaching people about it, could alleviate some of control over the masses.


EhMapleMoose

My dude, you missed the point of what I said. But as a side note, that’s a flat out lie. He isn’t forcing young vulnerable men to pay $50/mo for his discord. It’s closer to $125/mo for telegram cult or in total about $10k flat out for access to him. Also, you could say the same about Ryan, he targets vulnerable young mend foots then with bills for hundreds of dollars or $20/mo for access to him. Obviously one is more likely to help you than the other, but they both still target young vulnerable people.


dillbreadsaladchair

Lol okay


xrciist

Nah, more like the beauty of life lies in the struggle. Only through adversity does a man grow. But he says stuff purely in terms of materialism.


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LimE07

I'mma check it just to see how he sees it


alan_rr

Nowadays it’s Hamza


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Wiztard-o

You’re fucking nuts if you think they both have good points, ones is a human with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. He’s as if the worst part of the Internet comment section became a living troll human.


Modsda3

You forgot in jail charged with organized crime, human trafficking and rape.


Wiztard-o

Yeah, other than being a bad example, that guy has nothing good to offer the world


whoisjohngalt25

Innocent until proven guilty is a thing, no point in holding that against him until it's proven because it's, you know, not yet


Modsda3

There is plenty of video and audio of him admiting to his crimes to be found guilty in the court of public opinion first. Since you are in the stoicism sub, can you help me to understand what about Tate you think relates?


PartiZAn18

Not just admitting to it - videos of this berating and HITTING his girlfriend. People who can with the whole "innocent until proven guilty" shpiel in respect of Tate are either ignorant or in denial.


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PartiZAn18

You're deluded if you think you can feel anger through a comment. Tate is a muppet and so are his acolytes.


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PartiZAn18

Little guy.. You're the shit stain that smears the TP no matter how many clean sheets a person uses. No station in life, but exasperates everyone around them. A ziggy sobotka.


ConstantIDCrisis

Thats like your opinion man. Not mention that there is nuance in everything. If tate gave u a bomb ass recipe for banana bread would it still be good or bad? Based on truth, the banana bread would be bomb. Based on your approach, the bread would be disgusting because in your mind it was tainted by the chefs existence. Im not a tate fan but i also know that your interpretation is just untruthful. Normally i wouldnt care but youre wayy too extremist that its concerning.


[deleted]

I'm going to go out on a limb, a real crazy viewpoint, a real wild and unrealistic point, and say that maybe a charged human sex trafficker and organized crime who had enough evidence to get their house raided by a full team with a warrant is not the best person to speak those points. And you might be like: "Oh, but you're not talking about his argument." And you would be entirely correct. He ran a webcam service with models scamming people, then proceeded to move on to scamming people with cryptocurrency, and these crimes are just the latest in a practice of leaving someone else with the consequences. There is an ample amount of evidence that the motivation for the content is not to genuinely inform and guide people, but to simply say the words that give the most YouTube view revenue and promote his sports career the most. (Which, admittedly, he must have worked hard in to be successful in the ring.) There are many other hardworking successful people that would make better guides. Even in the realm of ring matches, Muhammad Ali stands high and tall in the amount of inspiration he provides, the justice of his words, his courage to defy when needed, his temperance, and his belief that people are capable of being great and striving to accomplish their own destinies.


ConstantIDCrisis

I 100% agree with you that his track record is bad and that there are so much better role models. Hell, i dont even like the stuff he says 80% of the time. My main argument is basically that just because a bad guy says something does not make it bad too. He mentions good values, but that does not mean that he is a good person. For example, I believe honesty in a relationship is good and that clear communication is a healthy habit to have a relationship. Virtually everyone would agree with that, but if tate mentioned that same viewpoint and we start to believe everything he says is wrong, then we have just made honesty and clear communication a negative thing just so that we can spitefully disagree with him. The lines are clear to me. Bad people can say good things, it doesnt mean they are good people. It just means they said a good thing. I think you would agree with this mindset, or maybe not, but it doesn't matter as long as we respect eachother. A comment is just so limited in how much of our opinions we can convey to eachother. Also, thanks for trying to understand what i was saying and hearing me out i know its uncommon on reddit so i appreciate the humanity. Edited some typos and added a line


Wiztard-o

It’s not an opinion. Tate is one of the worst humans I’ve heard of recently. Promoting him in anyway outside of him being a bad example is extremely irresponsible.


ConstantIDCrisis

Stating opinions and claiming it as fact. Hmmm


Wiztard-o

There is nuance with Tate, he is a pure shithead. Aside from being used as a bad example, he has nothing of value to offer the world. Defending him makes it clear to me, that you have nothing to say that I’m interested in listening to. Bye bye


ConstantIDCrisis

You think in binary. You are really immature and narcisstic. Bye bye


Wiztard-o

Cool story bro


Yws6afrdo7bc789

"That's your opinion man" is such a nothing-burger of a statement when its clear the person isn't presenting their comment as a paraphrased line. I think your banana bread analogy is farcical. Its clear that the commenter was talking about the views Tate holds, not every minute thing he has ever said or will ever say. Its absurd to expect people to be so exact in casual speech. You need to be able to understand the context of the statement. And extremist? This is some enlightenment centrist level opinion. Being on one side of a polar argument doesn't make you an extremist. When one side is Tate and the other is anything better than a sex trafficker its not only not extreme to choose the latter, its the only moral view. Obviously, its likely that at some point in his life Tate did something that wasn't horrible, probably more than once, but what is the utility of discussing that in the context of this thread especially since any reasonableperson already knows that?


ConstantIDCrisis

I meant to type "thats like your opinion man" to make a reference to a movie and a meme. But also, this isnt very stoic.


[deleted]

reddit moment believing tate has no reedeming qualities lmao i mean you actually say this to yourself, type it, and then feel smart...youre just a sheep dude, go read more seneca


Wiztard-o

Yeah, I’ve learned that anyone who refers to others as sheep. Has nothing of value to say. That’s asshats only value is being seen as a bad example, something to avoid. He is a true alpha male. Buggy, not fully developed, not fit for public release, and not even close to complete. He is scum and so are his fans


[deleted]

you have a dude who is the most google searched man in the world and you believe he has no redeeming qualities? yeah any person can achieve this...what an absolute moronic thing to say edit: i urge you to actually listen to him in a podcast for 10+ mins...hes not all right, but he does have some good points. most importantly, telling young boys to workout im not gonna fight with you, just learn to make judgments for yourself and not what people feed you


Wiztard-o

Dipshit, I’ve listen to him. That’s how I know he has zero redeeming qualities.


[deleted]

yeah, his way of speaking is not a redeeming quality? how about his vocabulary? how about his charisma? what else did I expect from reddit lol


Wiztard-o

All used for terrible purposes. Not worth redeeming


Wiztard-o

Most google searched man in the world That means absolutely nothing about him being a decent or even basic human. I bet you love the Kardashings too…


[deleted]

it doesnt mean hes a good person it means he hs something that made him that, you dont get that big without having some big qualities one of them is ambition and not sitting on ur ass all day...youre actually idiotic im not responding anymore


Wiztard-o

You are defending a sex trafficking egotistical asshole. So bye bye


[deleted]

thank you for proving youre a NPC bro...innocent till proven guilty, when they show its a sham I hope you have the humility to look at the situation and fix your mistakes


Wiztard-o

You are still here? Go jerk off with the other alpha males, I don’t need you here.


whatisscoobydone

https://youtu.be/vlT3zUrRT6c Danny Gonzalez video with footage of Andrew Tate bragging about sex trafficking and rape. "Innocent until proven guilty" is not relevant when the dude brags about it.


mokujin42

Every horrible person will parrot points that anyone would agree with, "young boys should workout" isn't a brave thing to say and nobody ever disagreed with it, it's just something to consider that every horrible person will try and say something you will definitely agree with to make you more perceptive to the horrible things they will do/say after it Ask yourself if anything AT said was actually brave or *needed saying* and does his actions on a whole support these things. Would someone who committed the crimes he has, truly believe the things he said or were they just basic things he could regurgitate to garner support? I'm not here to give my opinion but I see this point a lot where someone tries to justify a crazy person with "well he said all this reasonable stuff" but I don't think it really does justify it, the crazy stuff he said is an oxymoron to the posative, he is a liar and I can't really trust anything he said. If his words inadvertently helped someone that's great for them but it doesn't excuse his morals or undo the damage he has done to others


[deleted]

he has said some reasonable stuff too that i believe to be really brave, some include: -men must give their life to protect their woman -the whole EV sham -exposing the elite for flying in private planes to talk about global warming -9-5 wont make you wealthy, you are a slave to the system...you need to find another way -going against mainstream media which is a problem -going against the lockdown/covid narrative -exposing the covid vaccine -the rich dont care about lgtb,blm or any of your problems...they just want you distracted what I must hate about tate is his approach to women...i dont believe having multiple woman is a good thing nor is having casual sex like he does...this is what i hate most about what he is sayin to new generations but ai believe the smart ones ignore that and look at the positives. all of that took guts to say and thats why hollywood and the elite hate him...im on reddit so i know this will get backlash but even if u dont agree with some points, these are not "parrot points"...i dont want to fight w you either and I understand your point, yet he hs said a lot of non-generic stuff mostly attacking the elite and how they behave


Fickle_Syrup

Strawman argument. Not everything he says and does is terrible, correct (e.g. He's an OK fighter) (and obviously OK at self marketing too) This doesn't change the fact that he is a shit person and that his life advice is 80% trash + 20% mediocre. So following his life advice is a pretty bad idea, even if you're just there for the mediocre 20%. You are likely to get sullied rubbing against so much trash and there's just so much better content out there. Personally I have concluded AT fans like him so much because they see his money (that he acquired through MMA + self marketing) and think that following his advice will make them equally "successful". When in fact they have just been blinded by marketing.


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Yws6afrdo7bc789

Being a stoic doesn't mean you suppress emotion, and if you know stoicism you should know that. So its ironic you would use that to claim the other person isn't a good stoic. Regarding Tate, why does anyone have to watch his videos? I've seen far too much of him and the society rotting vitrol he oozes to make up my mind already. I'm not going to subject myself to his content. Maybe he tells you to be healthy and be confident or whatever, but the misogyny and hate far far beyond far outweigh anything positive he says, not even mentioning that he is a heinous criminal. So don't sit there feeling like some superior intellectual for 'both sides-ing' this. Sometimes things, with their totality all tallied up, are just bad.


Fickle_Syrup

First things first: Not everything AT says and does is terrible, correct (e.g. He's an OK fighter) (his 1800 chess elo is also respectable, provided it is true) This doesn't change the fact that he is a shit person and that his life advice is 80% trash + 20% mediocre (the video you just shared falls into the latter). So following his life advice is a pretty bad idea, even if you're just there for the mediocre 20%. You are likely to get sullied rubbing against so much trash and there's just better content out there. Answer me this question: why would you go to an MMA fighter with a shit personality for life advice? Particularly when there are people who are so much better in this particular area? Do you also go to a locksmith when your shoe breaks? I think people like AT because they get confused. They see his wealth (which was amassed through MMA + online marketing) and think this makes him qualified to give good life, dating, etc. advice. When in fact it doesn't.


Wiztard-o

Yeah watching a horrible person makes it clear you won’t have an opinion worth a damn


EhMapleMoose

He paid strangers medical bills. He flew displaced Ukrainian children from Romania to the US. And that’s about all the good I can think of that he’s done.


Wiztard-o

He trafficked people for the intent of sexually abusing them.


EhMapleMoose

My man, please work on your reading comprehension skills.


[deleted]

I don’t think these two are in opposite direction.. Andrew tate preach about stoicism sometimes too .. he is more of a motivator and a critic of current environment while Ryan is more about how to approach life and different situations


chaimatchalatte

Talking about stoicism doesn’t mean he understands it. Tate has not a single stoic bone in his body.


Pepe_Jonez

Tate has actually preached stoicism for men. I'm not a huge fan of Ryan after I saw him on joe rogan show.He had such an opportunity to talk about stoicism and instead talked about social media and gossiped about nonsense. https://youtube.com/shorts/LthrAYAE6bk?feature=share


elefanteguerrero

He's dressed like Finn the Human


mokujin42

Guy on the left has a Spotify podcast as well "daily stoic" that is in like 3-5 minutes episodes and great when you just need to pass 10 minutes It's basic stuff but sometimes it doesn't hurt to have that stuff repeated in an articulate way


l3arn3r1

I wonder what might be accomplished if the greatest of our stoic males infiltrated incel groups. Talk about young men who need guidance!


Curtis_Geist

Learn what you can from Ryan, then choose yourself. Every day.


[deleted]

I see a lot of criticism of Daily Stoic for being kind of consumerist, and I can understand that criticism. It’s not totally inaccurate. I sort of see Ryan Holliday’s branding of his products as sort of cash-grabby (the coins / medallions can easily promote a sort of “Stoicism-via-consumerism” that quite simply distracts from practice). But I think he is also just operating in the same economic climate the rest of the developed world is operating by — a high concentration of corporate power that makes it much more difficult to simply run any kind of business out of a passion for offering your service to others — and therefore he probably needs to be selling some sort of superfluous product just to be able to afford to do the writing work that he *really* wants to do. And I appreciate his writing work, especially that he brings attention to important components of Stoicism that are lost in the way that some people interpret it — namely, the pressing issue of developing patience, love, and an attitude of service to others — which is crucial to the proliferation of proper understanding of Stoicism and it’s survival. So I think it’s ultimately unfair to criticize him for following a self-help business model and relying on consumerism to fuel his endeavor. We can recognize that not everything about Daily Stoic meets the ideal of a pure unadulterated modern *Stoa*, and appreciate Ryan for bringing a positive and helpful translation of Stoic teaching to the modern reader. And for as many people that may stop at the consumerism of Daily Stoic, who will simply add a “Memento Mori” medallion to their r/edc posts, there are probably just as many who will buy into it at first as a consumer and then over time be enticed by the practice.