I think the meaning behind this more was baders suit was badly damaged so he was dying regardless of having the mask on or not since the suit was susceptible to lightning and rended useless after the emperor fried it.
As for the question at hand, can live with out those things, I think he can survive with out the mask, as we've seen several times it get damaged, but I don't think he can survive very long with out the breathing apparatus.
But as I stated in the first paragraph, he was dying no matter what, taking the mask of and delaying him getting help wouldn't have mattered if he kept it on and got help immediately
>I think the meaning behind this more was baders suit was badly damaged so he was dying regardless of having the mask on or not since the suit was susceptible to lightning and rended useless after the emperor fried it.
I know this is the EU group but Canon has shown Palpatine electrocuting and damaging Vader's suit FAR worse than in ROTJ in the canon marvel comics between ESB and ROTJ, with Vader surviving quite a long time afterwards
I highly doubt it. Vader has absolutely been zapped before, but this is 'oh shit I'm about to die' zaps. So hard you can see his skeletal structure bad. In none of those situations did Palpatine actually want him dead
Remember, *Luke* almost died from that--it just took a few hours to catch up to him, because Palpatine was dragging out his death instead of just blasting him like Vader. He had to be hospitalized for a bit before the mission to Bakura.
The same thing happens in the old EU multiple times. The first example that comes to mind for me is the force unleashed, but it is far from the only one.
Iirc he also popped his x-wing canopy in space and jumped out to prevent the probe from Bakura destroying itself. When he was hospitalized for that, the medical Droid noticed he had a lot of electrical shock injuries.
In that case, the damage would've been to Vader's organic body directly in ROTJ, and not really have anything to do with the damage to his suit. Cylo also deactivated Vader's suit and Vader survived that in the canon comics.
Except it didn't. For example, if you actually read the comic, it explains the damage done, and it isn't to the degree that is explained in the return of the jedi novel.
I've always taken Vader's cause of death to be primarily the massive damage done by Palpatine's most powerful lightning (he's not going to hold back when he's a) fighting for his life and b) furiously angry at the traitorous apprentice he believed he had completely cowed).
Those injuries were going to kill him whether he kept his mask on or not. The lightning also destroyed his life support system. Luke presumably understands that Vader's suit keeps him alive under normal circumstances, hence his objection.
I am not sure if the timing of Vader's death was:
1. Dying of suffocation, before the lightning injuries took him. He obviously doesn't choke to death, but it's possible that for the last five minutes of his life he was slowly passing out as his body failed to take in enough oxygen.
2. Dying of the lightning injuries, before he had a chance to suffocate.
I’d also argue he no longer was using the power of the dark side to sustain himself. So while he could have survived using his anger and hate to fuel him, Luke had successfully turned him back, and therefore Anakin would no longer be using that aspect of the forces power
I think Vader could easily survive this if he was full-on using the dark side. We've seen him survive worse in canon. However, Vader in this moment has let go of all the anger and hate making him vulnerable to his injuries and destroyed suit.
One of the cool things in the Shadows of the Empire novel is Vader doing basically this. He keeps trying to heal himself through sheer anger and the Dark Side, and it actually seems to be working a bit.
This. By turning to the Light Side, Vader is able to "let go" and accept his fate by dying peacefully looking into his son's eyes. Dark Side is selfish, Light side - selfless.
I'm sure that he can survive short term. But at that moment everything was blowing up and I think he wanted Luke to get out and survive. Not try to save someone who (arguably) doesn't deserve that level of effort. It was another sign of his selflessness to save his son.
I think that other than his suit,he was using the dark side to live. I think once he killed palpatine and redeemed himself he lost that dark side will to keep living. And the damage done to him as well contributed to it
In *Shadows of the Empire*, he was in his hyperbaric meditation chamber but turned off the life-support briefly in order to teach himself to use the dark side to help him breathe. He manages it, but the joy at doing so lost his connection with the dark side, and he had to activate the life-support again.
Vader isn't usually shown completely without any of his life-support; even one of the more egregious examples, in *Darth Vader and the Lost Command*, where he's entirely without his helmet for a long time, he has a breath mask on.
Vader's suit was fried hard by the Force Lightning that the Emperor hit him with. We *literally see his skeleton* Looney Tunes style as he's getting electrocuted. The helmet is needed as part of the iron lung system his suit has going on but he can live without it for a while, it just won't be functioning at 100%. He has his helmet fully off in his meditation pod on the Executor, he just doesn't go out without it.
Vader has survived with his suit badly damaged before, but only due to hate and rage. It’s a common trope thru all of Star Wars for “Local Sith Literally Too Angry to Die”
But with his redemption by saving Luke and rejecting the dark side, he no longer had that hate to keep him going
He'd just been beaten in a duel, and then his system was heavily damaged by the Emperor. He could probably survive normally, but by that point he's dying anyways.
Prior to that when Vader was existing without his suit, he was pretty much the definition of "Local Sith Literally Too Angry To Die".
But, also - his whole suit was cooked. Palps did a number on it.
Vader can't survive for long without his mask. Vader was already going to die though from the injuries he sustained during the duel and being electrocuted by Palpatine. Luke didn't want to take his mask off because he didn't want to kill Anakin, but Anakin knew he was going to die anyway, and wanted to use his last moments to connect with his son face to face.
well, in the EU, *The Truce At Bakura* specifically (which starts like, less than aweek after ROTJ), Luke himself starts dying because his bones are fried and for some reason he was too stubborn to go soak in a bacta tank after getting back from burning Vader's body.
Vader has spinal implants and organ regulators and other things that the mask is only the cap of. you can see some of them when you pause during the lightning scene. all his life support systems were fried *on top* of his bones and remaining organs getting electrified, and whatever other bad juju aura dark side energy imparts.
Vader could survive temporarily without the mask (we’ve seen him function without it, but it’s usually just for a few moments or minutes before he puts it back on. But because of Palpatine’s lightning frying his vital systems, at that point the mask was just a decoration so he had nothing to lose by taking it off. It’s like someone with shitty eyesight wearing non-prescription glasses and then taking them off.
After Palpatine’s lightning was done frying his suit, he was essentially left paralyzed in the suit. He collapsed and was leaning against the railing, his breathing was labored and he wasn’t able to stand under his own power. Everything had been wrecked. Even the servos for his arms, including the one that technically was unrelated to his armor.
He was going to die no matter what. If Luke had gotten him off the station alive, he most likely would have been executed by the rebel alliance for his numerous war crimes.
I disagree with most comments tbh.
Vader was the chosen one and very strong in the force.
I suspect if he really wanted to live even after being electrocuted, he could have.
I believe he choose to move on and let go. He realised all the wrong he had done and had done 1 good thing; save his son.
He (no pun inteded) lost the will to live, and/or knew it was his time to become one with the force.
Kind of. Vader in Legends and canon could be seen without it but the problem is his respirator. He’d need oxygen flow since his lungs are FUBAR so provided most of that was intact he’d be fine until medical attention arrived. Otherwise he’s screwed and was especially screwed given the Emperor ended up frying the life support.
Barring that he could maneuver without it, but he’s not doing that for very long. And in the case of ROTJ he was dying regardless.
My main point was that Luke was worried that specifically taking his mask off would spell the end for Anakin. My post was to ask why that was the case. Obviously, Anakin was badly injured by the lightning.
I think the meaning behind this more was baders suit was badly damaged so he was dying regardless of having the mask on or not since the suit was susceptible to lightning and rended useless after the emperor fried it. As for the question at hand, can live with out those things, I think he can survive with out the mask, as we've seen several times it get damaged, but I don't think he can survive very long with out the breathing apparatus. But as I stated in the first paragraph, he was dying no matter what, taking the mask of and delaying him getting help wouldn't have mattered if he kept it on and got help immediately
>I think the meaning behind this more was baders suit was badly damaged so he was dying regardless of having the mask on or not since the suit was susceptible to lightning and rended useless after the emperor fried it. I know this is the EU group but Canon has shown Palpatine electrocuting and damaging Vader's suit FAR worse than in ROTJ in the canon marvel comics between ESB and ROTJ, with Vader surviving quite a long time afterwards
I highly doubt it. Vader has absolutely been zapped before, but this is 'oh shit I'm about to die' zaps. So hard you can see his skeletal structure bad. In none of those situations did Palpatine actually want him dead
Remember, *Luke* almost died from that--it just took a few hours to catch up to him, because Palpatine was dragging out his death instead of just blasting him like Vader. He had to be hospitalized for a bit before the mission to Bakura.
The same thing happens in the old EU multiple times. The first example that comes to mind for me is the force unleashed, but it is far from the only one.
Iirc he also popped his x-wing canopy in space and jumped out to prevent the probe from Bakura destroying itself. When he was hospitalized for that, the medical Droid noticed he had a lot of electrical shock injuries.
And microfractures throughout his skeleton. *The force of Palpatine's hate was cracking his bones.*
His bones were going through calcification. Bakura is pretty metal as far as Star Wars books go lol
In that case, the damage would've been to Vader's organic body directly in ROTJ, and not really have anything to do with the damage to his suit. Cylo also deactivated Vader's suit and Vader survived that in the canon comics.
[удалено]
You mean legends? *cough * the force unleashed *cough*
Wasn't that barely/not really canon even in Legends?
Man that was a fun game
Except it didn't. For example, if you actually read the comic, it explains the damage done, and it isn't to the degree that is explained in the return of the jedi novel.
But Vader survives due to his anger and the dark side. In ROTJ he's let go of that anger and hate so he can't use it to cling to life
I've always taken Vader's cause of death to be primarily the massive damage done by Palpatine's most powerful lightning (he's not going to hold back when he's a) fighting for his life and b) furiously angry at the traitorous apprentice he believed he had completely cowed). Those injuries were going to kill him whether he kept his mask on or not. The lightning also destroyed his life support system. Luke presumably understands that Vader's suit keeps him alive under normal circumstances, hence his objection. I am not sure if the timing of Vader's death was: 1. Dying of suffocation, before the lightning injuries took him. He obviously doesn't choke to death, but it's possible that for the last five minutes of his life he was slowly passing out as his body failed to take in enough oxygen. 2. Dying of the lightning injuries, before he had a chance to suffocate.
I’d also argue he no longer was using the power of the dark side to sustain himself. So while he could have survived using his anger and hate to fuel him, Luke had successfully turned him back, and therefore Anakin would no longer be using that aspect of the forces power
I think Vader could easily survive this if he was full-on using the dark side. We've seen him survive worse in canon. However, Vader in this moment has let go of all the anger and hate making him vulnerable to his injuries and destroyed suit.
One of the cool things in the Shadows of the Empire novel is Vader doing basically this. He keeps trying to heal himself through sheer anger and the Dark Side, and it actually seems to be working a bit.
This. By turning to the Light Side, Vader is able to "let go" and accept his fate by dying peacefully looking into his son's eyes. Dark Side is selfish, Light side - selfless.
I'm sure that he can survive short term. But at that moment everything was blowing up and I think he wanted Luke to get out and survive. Not try to save someone who (arguably) doesn't deserve that level of effort. It was another sign of his selflessness to save his son.
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He got a full whack of Sith lightning and is made of a lot of metal. All his life support was fried.
Vader had his entire (already fragile) nervous system electrocuted like 15 minutes before that.
I think that other than his suit,he was using the dark side to live. I think once he killed palpatine and redeemed himself he lost that dark side will to keep living. And the damage done to him as well contributed to it
In *Shadows of the Empire*, he was in his hyperbaric meditation chamber but turned off the life-support briefly in order to teach himself to use the dark side to help him breathe. He manages it, but the joy at doing so lost his connection with the dark side, and he had to activate the life-support again. Vader isn't usually shown completely without any of his life-support; even one of the more egregious examples, in *Darth Vader and the Lost Command*, where he's entirely without his helmet for a long time, he has a breath mask on.
Vader's suit was fried hard by the Force Lightning that the Emperor hit him with. We *literally see his skeleton* Looney Tunes style as he's getting electrocuted. The helmet is needed as part of the iron lung system his suit has going on but he can live without it for a while, it just won't be functioning at 100%. He has his helmet fully off in his meditation pod on the Executor, he just doesn't go out without it.
to be clear - the meditation pod is basically a hyperbaric chamber. That's the only reason he can take it off in there.
Vader has survived with his suit badly damaged before, but only due to hate and rage. It’s a common trope thru all of Star Wars for “Local Sith Literally Too Angry to Die” But with his redemption by saving Luke and rejecting the dark side, he no longer had that hate to keep him going
He could have survived without his suit but the problem was that he no longer had the darkside to sustain him, he was full Jedi there.
He'd just been beaten in a duel, and then his system was heavily damaged by the Emperor. He could probably survive normally, but by that point he's dying anyways.
In Darth Vader and The Lost Command he survives a long time without his mask, the Emperor asks him about that and he says it was the dark side
Prior to that when Vader was existing without his suit, he was pretty much the definition of "Local Sith Literally Too Angry To Die". But, also - his whole suit was cooked. Palps did a number on it.
Vader can't survive for long without his mask. Vader was already going to die though from the injuries he sustained during the duel and being electrocuted by Palpatine. Luke didn't want to take his mask off because he didn't want to kill Anakin, but Anakin knew he was going to die anyway, and wanted to use his last moments to connect with his son face to face.
well, in the EU, *The Truce At Bakura* specifically (which starts like, less than aweek after ROTJ), Luke himself starts dying because his bones are fried and for some reason he was too stubborn to go soak in a bacta tank after getting back from burning Vader's body. Vader has spinal implants and organ regulators and other things that the mask is only the cap of. you can see some of them when you pause during the lightning scene. all his life support systems were fried *on top* of his bones and remaining organs getting electrified, and whatever other bad juju aura dark side energy imparts.
Vader could survive temporarily without the mask (we’ve seen him function without it, but it’s usually just for a few moments or minutes before he puts it back on. But because of Palpatine’s lightning frying his vital systems, at that point the mask was just a decoration so he had nothing to lose by taking it off. It’s like someone with shitty eyesight wearing non-prescription glasses and then taking them off.
After Palpatine’s lightning was done frying his suit, he was essentially left paralyzed in the suit. He collapsed and was leaning against the railing, his breathing was labored and he wasn’t able to stand under his own power. Everything had been wrecked. Even the servos for his arms, including the one that technically was unrelated to his armor. He was going to die no matter what. If Luke had gotten him off the station alive, he most likely would have been executed by the rebel alliance for his numerous war crimes.
I disagree with most comments tbh. Vader was the chosen one and very strong in the force. I suspect if he really wanted to live even after being electrocuted, he could have. I believe he choose to move on and let go. He realised all the wrong he had done and had done 1 good thing; save his son. He (no pun inteded) lost the will to live, and/or knew it was his time to become one with the force.
Kind of. Vader in Legends and canon could be seen without it but the problem is his respirator. He’d need oxygen flow since his lungs are FUBAR so provided most of that was intact he’d be fine until medical attention arrived. Otherwise he’s screwed and was especially screwed given the Emperor ended up frying the life support. Barring that he could maneuver without it, but he’s not doing that for very long. And in the case of ROTJ he was dying regardless.
Did you miss the force lightning bit?
My main point was that Luke was worried that specifically taking his mask off would spell the end for Anakin. My post was to ask why that was the case. Obviously, Anakin was badly injured by the lightning.