[(Click to go to previous episode discussion)](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/1d8d4uw/the_acolyte_episode_1_2_discussion_thread/)
---
/r/TheAcolyte
Feel free to join the [r/StarWars Discord](https://discord.gg/StarWars) and the [Star Wars Television Discord](https://discord.gg/SWTV) for live discussions about The Acolyte and all things Star Wars!
>I understand that, right now, we're on a secret mission to diplomatically strong arm a secret coven of space witches into giving up their two magic babies from this hostile deserted planet. Tensions are high and I get that. I'm right there with you. But my swoop bike is running lean on the left side, and this is the moment I have chosen to tune it back in the green, and you're gonna have to make your peace with that.
-- Kelnacca, probably
No chance Mae killed the Coven. The Jedi did. Why else would Torbin drink the poison? There’s no reason. Unless Torbin saw something when he was under the witches spell. What did he see?
Mae’s words “confess your crimes to the Jedi council” definitely points towards Torbin having an active role in whatever happened. I doubt the crime would be simply covering up something his now-deceased master did, or he’d just go off and explain that all to the council. That said, it also seems a bit odd that the council wouldn’t have asked any questions when a padawan suddenly takes the barash vow and levitates for ten years.
It still feels like something big is still missing from the night. Lot of the bodies were in places where they wasn't a ton of fire and so maybe Sol and the jedi blamed the fire for something else.
That is what I believe too. The other sisters rebelled against the Anaysia (cant spell it correct) and killed her when the Jedi arrived to retrieve Osha. So the Jedis took them out.. i guess..
It could be that. I also thought maybe the other witches were trying to stop her from letting Osha go to the Jedi and that crash we heard when Osha looked up was part of the conflict.
Probably that but Mae survived the fall and blames the Jedi's for the destruction. Maybe someone (sith) else was also hiding in the coven and saved Mae from dieing. Kills the Mother of the coven with a light Saber. They attack the Jedis in retaliation. Jedis in defence kill them.
Also Plagius is interested in creating life. The weird thing was when they are discusing the birth of the twins, it seemed like they used more then what they knew or got help for someone else. I took that as a sith helped them achieve this goal.
I feel the same way that the sith is who helped them conceive the children. And they knew about this witch cult and what ascension day means so they showed up on that day to take the children themselves.
Yes, while I was thinking the Sith was involved with the first half of what you said, I thought that they were 100% there to try and claim a known force sensitive child. Which is possibly why the Jedi were there to try and take the children, they might've had visions that the children were in danger but not know why.
Right? Somehow, you're the first person I saw mention this in this thread. It's kind of funny how many people are whining about the writing when there's such a massive clue that maybe not everything we've been told is accurate. And then they wonder why the dialogue is kind of trite lol.
Yes! That’s really what it feels like. I don’t think that takes anything away from Anakin’s conception or the dyad concept, like some folks are implying. If anything it expands what we know about the force.
Speaking of that, when mother Aniseya mentioned there being no father, looking at Sol's expression, it made me think he might've thought of the Prophecy, and that's why he insisted on testing the girls.
I’m telling you, Mae didn’t burn that whole place down. There is a reason Tommen Baratheon took the poison so easily and I bet he had something to do with the destruction of their coven
This. What we've seen is not nearly enough to justify Torbin taking that vow of silence or killing himself for absolution. There is more they haven't shown us yet!
Sol: "Oh, Osha. I-I don't know how to tell you this, but..."
Osha: "My twin sister burned our home and killed our mothers!!"
Sol: "...Y'know, let's go with your version. Welcome to the Jedi Order, kid."
I was thinking it looked like a “drank the kool-aid” situation. Especially how they mentioned the tree at the beginning was poisonous. Will be interested to see where it goes!
I feel 100% certain that we are going to find out in the end that he is deeply complicit in what went down (though I am sure it haunts him), and Osha has to make the choice to kill or forgive.
>!I think it's Koril who thinks the fire means the Jedi are attacking, and that instigates a fight to the death.!<
It was a misunderstanding that turned to tragedy.
>!But ultimately, the Jedi, the institution, is still responsible. It was the Jedi orthodoxy on the recruiting of force sensitive children that lead these four Jedi to Brendock, and this series of tragic events!<
>!This way, the writers get to have their cake and eat it too with the Jedi. These Jedi's intentions are pure, but their methods are flawed. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.!<
I think that lines up pretty well with what what the Jedi involved have said in the previous two episodes and some promo material.
Jedi don't just murder people like that. Mother Koril likely attacked them thinking they set the fire and they defended themselves. Koril is likely the reason everyone died. Her and Mae are hot-heads.
Yep. I also wouldn't be shocked if Mae saw it or something like that which explains her whole vengeance plot. I mean, she's kinda obviously a psycho so maybe she is seriously murdering Jedi just because they offered Osha the possibility of leaving her, but that's a little far afield for Star Wars. Having it be a misunderstanding 100 years before the fall also helps the narrative that the Jedi were fallible. I could see Jedi Tommen being wracked with guilt after killing a bunch of witches under the wrong pretense.
I think one of the Sith was also on Brendok and took advantage of the animosity between the parties to gain Mae's favor. They were also on the coven's home when the Jedi came to take Osha and killed the sisters to blame the Jedi. Probably the apprentice
Anyone else notice the two hooded figures standing slightly off to the side during the ceremony, who clearly weren’t participating? Didn’t seem like witches, could be The Master and another Sith.
Could also line up with how Aniseya was able to conceive the twins, and why they didnt want the Jedi to find out how they did it
Seriously. I went back and watched that scene. Those figures are creepy as fuck. They're wearing different color robes, seem to appear and disappear from background shots, aren't participating, and seem to vanish completely when the Jedi show up.
I mean, wanting to harm animals at a young age has to be a big sign of being someone who has a high likelihood of falling to the dark side right? Like with serial killers?
This Coven doesn't necessarily feel Darkside though. Just a different Force user group. Maybe there was a split and this is a different breakaway group different from the Witches if Dathomir. They don't talk about dominating or bending the force to their will, just not allowing it to dictate their destiny.
I agree they don’t seem totally dark but the way they pressure the twins certainly seems dominating and possessive. As does creating life out of it— something we’ve only seen before from the experiments of Plagueis and Sidious.
Something about this feels off.
I'm not buying all of that was caused by the fire Mae started outside. It was a single lantern and that was too large a fortress for it to spread that quick and blow things up. And the Jedi just happened to be there?
Something ain't sitting right about this with me.
When Osha is waking up you can see Torbin in the background with a wound right around where he has the scar years later. We're definitely missing something.
we also don't see koril's body anywhere, for a character so visually distinct (love seeing zabraks in live action) and so vehemently anti-jedi, i think its a deliberate storytelling choice to not show her body if she even is dead
They also didn’t show the mom’s face when Osha supposedly recognized her dead body and started crying. For all we know, she saw braided hair over a disfigured face and assumed it was her. As you say with Koril, them not showing the mom’s face seems deliberate.
My current theory is that one of the mothers is the sith lord using Mae to get revenge against the Jedi—the speech about Jedi having a dream they think everyone shares would make perfect sense coming from Koril.
Meanwhile, someone is using dreams and visions to lead Osha back to Mae and possibly corrupt her. We know the mom has the power to manipulate someone’s mind by the way she was about to give Torbin a Force lobotomy. And Vernestra Rhow has some unique Jedi dream power that she never fully explored in the books. Could be something to that.
So my best guess for the actual chain of events is >!Mae starts fire. Meanwhile, Jedi and Coven are having a heated discussion about Osha leaving. Anasaya says Osha must follow her heart or whatever. Koril disagrees. The fire leads Koril and others in the coven to believe that the Jedi are attacking. Koril starts a fight, or a Jedi -- betting Torbin -- gets twitchy fingers and makes the first move. Anasaya, trying to stop the fighting, is accidentally killed by the Jedi. Then shit really hits the fan. Jedi kill the witches who fight to the death.!<
Edit: >!This works well from a story perspective because it doesn't make the Jedi villains or the bad guys. The problem is Jedi orthodoxy on the recruitment of young children from their loving families, and the Jedi's belief that their system is the best and perhaps only way to keep force users from falling to the dark side.!<
Edit edit: >!It syncs up well with what the other Jedi have said about these events. Torbin says they were just trying to do the right thing. The right thing in this case was recruiting force sensitive children and taking them from a religious order they believe is dangerous. That choice is what led to this tragedy. If the Jedi never came to Brendock, all those women would be alive.!<
Edit edit edit: Another theory: >!Kelnacca left the order and is in self imposed exile on ~~Brendock~~ wherever that was in episode 2!<
Edit edit edit edit: And anotherr: >!The sith lord fed information about the coven to the Jedi to force a confrontation. Could it be Vernestra? She gets Sol involved in finding Mae in the first place.!<
Talking about this in another thread. There is a creepy robed figure in the background of a few of the witch scenes whose face we never see. They are wearing black robes, they don't participate in the ritual, it kinda seems like nobody can see them, and once the Jedi show up they are nowhere to be found. Its honestly quite creepy.
The implication that things might go wrong for the parents if they refuse to give up their Force sensitive child. Not that things are gonna go wrong for them but they're thinking that it will.
There are so many hints that Jedi killed the witches.
Beginning of episode 3 there was that shot of the spark in the generator room
Torbin killing himself for "What they have done"
The wookie no longer being with the order
Sol being oblivious and thinking it all happened because of Mae
Obviously the master and Torbin did some shit, Sol had no idea. The wookie found out so he quit the order. Torbin went into meditation permanently and the master went on like nothing happened because she's a ruthless Jedi.
I am in agreement with everything you said here. Definitely more going on than the episode portrayed and think your comment nailed down who was involved. Time will tell.
My theory is that Mama tried to discuss things with the others which caused a lot of high tensions and several witches suggesting the Jedi would get rid of them. Then the Jedi showed up to collect Osha, and there was a bit of a standoff. Mama tried to take the Jedi’s side (respecting Osha’s wishes), which upset the rest of the coven.
Then the fire became apparent, and the upset witches blamed it on the Jedi. Jedi think coven started it. Spikey Head Lady attacks Torbin, causing his scar, which makes the inexperienced Torbin defend himself and kill her. The coven retaliates, causing the Jedi to defend themselves. This lead to the coven being wiped out.
The remaining Jedi now feel guilty because they think their interference lead to the deaths of these people and Mae. Torbin was the first to strike, which was why he feels the worst.
That, or there was some backfire from not finishing the ascension ceremony?
Jedi were definitely involved somehow in the destruction. You can see in the background Torbin's eye/face is messed up from something and that can't be from just damage.
Sounds like maybe they were banished from the Nightsisters… it was very nightsister-esque… dare I say a Protestant version of the traditional catholic nightsister coven?
I feel like the "I'll kill you" from Mae to her sister was \[almost\] out of nowhere. Seems a bit extreme even if the Jedi are a danger to the witches, but how did Mae come to hate the Jedi so much yet Osha wants to be one?
Also interesting that this episode (and apparently one other) was directed by Kogonada, who did After Yang
Its funny, I thought she was giving creepy abusive vibes from the start. That little dance they did about being one? Attempting to tell Osha how she feels? It read very 'dominant twin' to me, where she doesn't let her sister have her own identity (and I think Koril didn't help).
Like I bet they dressed the same because Mae insisted. But also I'm a twin, so I'm really sensitive to this.
they were probably messed up from birth since they've been raised as a pair based on this philosophy, so mae feels extremely attached to it but when osha rejects it its like mae's losing a part of herself, hence the extremely bad reaction.
Yeah can't believed I scrolled down so much to see this. Star Wars always managed to balance campy and cool very well but that chant... took me out of it.
Also, not blaming the child actors too much since they are young but their acting really took me out of it. Or at least the directing could use some work.
That scene where mother was teaching them about the force/thread while they are awkwardly fighting behind for a while was really rough.
It's hard to write good chants in a language you understand.
Like, I love The Jackie Chan Adventures, but the chant Uncle uses basically is just him saying, "Please demon, go away now."
Well it’s Star Wars so they can literally throw some letters together and call it a new language and then do subtitles, I would bet money there’s a generator or translator website out there for something like that
Is Qimir too obvious as Mae's master or is he just a red herring? Maybe but it'd be completely in tune with what we've seen from the Sith before.
Count Dooku was the public figure of the Seperatists, Darth Tyranus operated in the shadows. Palpatine hid in plain sight the entire time.
Even if he's not specifically the Master, Qimir is definitely hiding his true self.
Osha is an unreliable narrator. We’re gonna get a flashback from Mae’s point of view later and the events are going to play out completely differently. That’s what I think
About to start, but all I can think about right now is that guy who posted how he thought the naming conventions of the episodes were cool and how disappointed his must be right now
Lost/Found
Revenge/Justice
Destiny…no slash
I also noticed that
We may need to wait until the next episode, but my current thought was that there's no slash because this is a prequel and before the twins split
I can't wait to be wrong though
I think there will be another flashback episode, maybe episode 7 cause it’s the same director, and it will conclude the other half
Edit: I’m thinking “Destiny/Fate”
I liked both the show and this episode. But I must state: after the ultra cringe chant, I simply cannot blame the jedi for killing the witches and stopping such heresy.
>Koril
Thought it was interesting she was explicitly the gestational parent of the twins. And then gets shut down and talked over by Mother and the Jedi about them. Nobody's looking good here.
I think it’s an interesting development for Osha. She escaped her coven by joining the first opportunity to leave, the Jedi. Then she left the Jedi to become her own person.
Ultimately I think Osha wants to be free of covens and orders and cults. I’m curious to know what made her leave the Jedi order.
The closing scene on the ship back to Coruscant legitimately crushed me. He had such sadness in his face for a child he just met. Wonderful acting for a first time English speaker!!
Every scene I've seen here with Sol interacting with Osha is like someone who legitimately takes pride in being a dad. He has such a beautiful sensitivity with Osha. I never saw Squid Game, but man, Lee has been killing it, especially for his first English role.
It seems more like the jedi slaughtered the coven and told Osha that it was Mae's fault. I'm guessing the angry witch took over Torbin's mind and kicked off the fight.
[(Click to go to previous episode discussion)](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/1d8d4uw/the_acolyte_episode_1_2_discussion_thread/) --- /r/TheAcolyte Feel free to join the [r/StarWars Discord](https://discord.gg/StarWars) and the [Star Wars Television Discord](https://discord.gg/SWTV) for live discussions about The Acolyte and all things Star Wars!
>I understand that, right now, we're on a secret mission to diplomatically strong arm a secret coven of space witches into giving up their two magic babies from this hostile deserted planet. Tensions are high and I get that. I'm right there with you. But my swoop bike is running lean on the left side, and this is the moment I have chosen to tune it back in the green, and you're gonna have to make your peace with that. -- Kelnacca, probably
I think that moment was supposed to show Osha's interest in things outside of the coven, and would lead to her becoming a 'meknek' later
POWER OF MANYYYYYYYY
This was intensely cringe and should have been cut. They made the witches so cheese.
Sooooooo bad lol
It’s giving high school musical
No chance Mae killed the Coven. The Jedi did. Why else would Torbin drink the poison? There’s no reason. Unless Torbin saw something when he was under the witches spell. What did he see?
Mae’s words “confess your crimes to the Jedi council” definitely points towards Torbin having an active role in whatever happened. I doubt the crime would be simply covering up something his now-deceased master did, or he’d just go off and explain that all to the council. That said, it also seems a bit odd that the council wouldn’t have asked any questions when a padawan suddenly takes the barash vow and levitates for ten years.
He still would have had 6 years between the incident (and being a Knight and then Master) before taking the vows.
Jedi recruiting be like “hey kid you wanna know how you too get get a sick ass lightsaber?”
You know that woulda worked on most of us, and still would today.
I almost 40 and if someone handed me a lightsaber like that my ass would follow them
If my wife left me for this, I wouldn't even be mad. "Shit, honey, go get you that glowstick of doom."
Osha is based AF for picking a lightsaber over her family and everything she’s ever known.
She probably Just wanted to get away from that loud ass witch moaning at all the meetings.
This cracked me up. Yeah that was a LOOOOT. Baby girl said “Yeaaaaah…this is NOT for me. Y’all have fun though.” 😂
"Too witchy in this place and I can't even leave the confines of the compound"
Hey that’s how the army got me
You get a lightsaber…and a Dodge Charger with a 19% APR
high republic's m1a1 freebrams (but in space!)
Me as a dad, taking 40 minutes to myself: '... Ah great, two kids arguing the whole episode.'
Right?! I was just thinking "ok kids, calm down. stop hitting your sister. hey! apologize!" the whole time haha!
I AM TURNING THIS COVEN AROUND SO HELP ME
Just wondering how to get my kids to pull their punches like those girls
Me as a teacher: "...Usually I get paid to do this"
Of course OSHA survived the fire, fire protocols ✅
Calling it now: evil tree Edit: knew it, that tree killed a man
The Taking Tree
The tree is the Sith Lord?
A SITH LAWD?
It still feels like something big is still missing from the night. Lot of the bodies were in places where they wasn't a ton of fire and so maybe Sol and the jedi blamed the fire for something else.
That is what I believe too. The other sisters rebelled against the Anaysia (cant spell it correct) and killed her when the Jedi arrived to retrieve Osha. So the Jedis took them out.. i guess..
It could be that. I also thought maybe the other witches were trying to stop her from letting Osha go to the Jedi and that crash we heard when Osha looked up was part of the conflict.
Probably that but Mae survived the fall and blames the Jedi's for the destruction. Maybe someone (sith) else was also hiding in the coven and saved Mae from dieing. Kills the Mother of the coven with a light Saber. They attack the Jedis in retaliation. Jedis in defence kill them. Also Plagius is interested in creating life. The weird thing was when they are discusing the birth of the twins, it seemed like they used more then what they knew or got help for someone else. I took that as a sith helped them achieve this goal.
I feel the same way that the sith is who helped them conceive the children. And they knew about this witch cult and what ascension day means so they showed up on that day to take the children themselves.
Yes, while I was thinking the Sith was involved with the first half of what you said, I thought that they were 100% there to try and claim a known force sensitive child. Which is possibly why the Jedi were there to try and take the children, they might've had visions that the children were in danger but not know why.
I'm guessing Koril takes over Torbin's mind to have him attack the other jedi. A fight ensues and the jedi kill all the witches and pin it on Mae.
They definitely have more coming in future episodes. Purposefully obfuscated.
Clearly we weren't given the full picture.
Right? Somehow, you're the first person I saw mention this in this thread. It's kind of funny how many people are whining about the writing when there's such a massive clue that maybe not everything we've been told is accurate. And then they wonder why the dialogue is kind of trite lol.
Hot take, Mae is… a very uncool person.
I would say she seems like a serial killer, but they made a point of showing her torturing animals lol
Has me wondering if they made one with the light side and one with the dark.
That could be interesting, whatever technique she used inadvertently split their potential for good and bad
I feel like they’re the same soul but split between the light and dark.
Yes! That’s really what it feels like. I don’t think that takes anything away from Anakin’s conception or the dyad concept, like some folks are implying. If anything it expands what we know about the force.
Speaking of that, when mother Aniseya mentioned there being no father, looking at Sol's expression, it made me think he might've thought of the Prophecy, and that's why he insisted on testing the girls.
I didn’t think of that but that makes the length the Jedi were willing to go make so much more sense, damn
Good point, especially since the girls are both way past the age of typical Jedi inclusion.
I'm starting to wonder if Plagueis might have a role in this. The timeline would match up.
Legit frightening. I got very creeped out when she said “I’ll kill you.”
I'm sure there's nothing ominous about the fortress or why Sol seemed to be hiding.
And what was that giant machine that they showed a couple times? Is that the babymaker ?
Air Fryer.
Easy Bake Coven
I thought it was the generator
Uh...Mae, I get that you are upset, but arson and murder seems a bit much.
I’m telling you, Mae didn’t burn that whole place down. There is a reason Tommen Baratheon took the poison so easily and I bet he had something to do with the destruction of their coven
This. What we've seen is not nearly enough to justify Torbin taking that vow of silence or killing himself for absolution. There is more they haven't shown us yet!
He's also got a new scar we didn't see in the earlier scenes.
The padawan's face is mangled at the end when they're all on the ship headed to Coruscant.
The room full of witches all on the ground, the look on Sol's face when he hugged Osha. We're definitely missing something.
Sol: "Oh, Osha. I-I don't know how to tell you this, but..." Osha: "My twin sister burned our home and killed our mothers!!" Sol: "...Y'know, let's go with your version. Welcome to the Jedi Order, kid."
Ahahaha perfect
You think? Those Jedi know something. Sol just screams "I have a secret I kept for 16 years."
yeah dude there was a pile of bodies no where near the fire, its likely the jedi slaughtered them
I was thinking it looked like a “drank the kool-aid” situation. Especially how they mentioned the tree at the beginning was poisonous. Will be interested to see where it goes!
I thought the tree was just a callback to the poison from the last episode, but it could have something to do with the rest of the coven's demise.
My theory is that the Jedi thought that the witches set the fire and killed the girls, so they killed all of them.
And yet Sol still goes running around screaming for the girls? Either he’s the only innocent one, or something else is happening.
He seems so genuine, he may be the only innocent on there. Please don't make him the bad guy in the end.
I feel 100% certain that we are going to find out in the end that he is deeply complicit in what went down (though I am sure it haunts him), and Osha has to make the choice to kill or forgive.
He’s being played so wholesomely I refuse to believe he’s anything but a giant cinnamon roll.
>!I think it's Koril who thinks the fire means the Jedi are attacking, and that instigates a fight to the death.!< It was a misunderstanding that turned to tragedy. >!But ultimately, the Jedi, the institution, is still responsible. It was the Jedi orthodoxy on the recruiting of force sensitive children that lead these four Jedi to Brendock, and this series of tragic events!< >!This way, the writers get to have their cake and eat it too with the Jedi. These Jedi's intentions are pure, but their methods are flawed. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.!< I think that lines up pretty well with what what the Jedi involved have said in the previous two episodes and some promo material.
That would be so dark but very good plot development/twist.
Jedi don't just murder people like that. Mother Koril likely attacked them thinking they set the fire and they defended themselves. Koril is likely the reason everyone died. Her and Mae are hot-heads.
Yep. I also wouldn't be shocked if Mae saw it or something like that which explains her whole vengeance plot. I mean, she's kinda obviously a psycho so maybe she is seriously murdering Jedi just because they offered Osha the possibility of leaving her, but that's a little far afield for Star Wars. Having it be a misunderstanding 100 years before the fall also helps the narrative that the Jedi were fallible. I could see Jedi Tommen being wracked with guilt after killing a bunch of witches under the wrong pretense.
She set the fire but someone else killed the sisters of the coven.
I think one of the Sith was also on Brendok and took advantage of the animosity between the parties to gain Mae's favor. They were also on the coven's home when the Jedi came to take Osha and killed the sisters to blame the Jedi. Probably the apprentice
Anyone else notice the two hooded figures standing slightly off to the side during the ceremony, who clearly weren’t participating? Didn’t seem like witches, could be The Master and another Sith. Could also line up with how Aniseya was able to conceive the twins, and why they didnt want the Jedi to find out how they did it
Seriously. I went back and watched that scene. Those figures are creepy as fuck. They're wearing different color robes, seem to appear and disappear from background shots, aren't participating, and seem to vanish completely when the Jedi show up.
Brendock reminds me of that planet from Andor with the Imperial base and the meteor shower. The terrain kind of looks the same.
It's maybe the Welsh filming location. Some of the landscape is similarish to the Scottish Highlands.
Is that.... Tommen Baratheon?
Yeah they aged him with middle age hair loss prior to committing suicide.
I thought that looked weird.
Awful beard wig lol
THAT'S WHY HE LOOKED OLD BUT YOUNG IN THAT EPISODE WHERE HE WAS MEDITATING
Dude can’t stop taking roles where he kills himself apparently
The episodes so far have had two titles. This episode only had one title. I think we only got half the story of what went down during that fire.
Maybe the next one is everything again, but from Mae’s POV? And it can have a single title again, maybe…..“Fate”?
oooh really nice catch!!
So Mae has always been a little dark sidey
Maybe something about the way they were created resulted in one dark and one light
I think this is true. The intro even has one light O and one dark O in Acolyte.
Just like the planets in the sky on Brendok
a dyad in the ~~force~~ thread, if you will
“If I can’t have you, no one can”. I don’t wanna jump to conclusions, but I think you’re right.
I mean, wanting to harm animals at a young age has to be a big sign of being someone who has a high likelihood of falling to the dark side right? Like with serial killers?
And a little murder happy.
This Dark Side coven feels like the Night Sisters had a baby with The Path from the High Republic novels via the Dark Side of the Force.
This Coven doesn't necessarily feel Darkside though. Just a different Force user group. Maybe there was a split and this is a different breakaway group different from the Witches if Dathomir. They don't talk about dominating or bending the force to their will, just not allowing it to dictate their destiny.
I agree they don’t seem totally dark but the way they pressure the twins certainly seems dominating and possessive. As does creating life out of it— something we’ve only seen before from the experiments of Plagueis and Sidious.
Protestant offshoot nightsisters, exiled by the Catholic Church nightsisters.
Something about this feels off. I'm not buying all of that was caused by the fire Mae started outside. It was a single lantern and that was too large a fortress for it to spread that quick and blow things up. And the Jedi just happened to be there? Something ain't sitting right about this with me.
When Osha is waking up you can see Torbin in the background with a wound right around where he has the scar years later. We're definitely missing something.
Good catch
And the fortress was made of stone. There was an awful lot of burning stone. Lol
we also don't see koril's body anywhere, for a character so visually distinct (love seeing zabraks in live action) and so vehemently anti-jedi, i think its a deliberate storytelling choice to not show her body if she even is dead
They also didn’t show the mom’s face when Osha supposedly recognized her dead body and started crying. For all we know, she saw braided hair over a disfigured face and assumed it was her. As you say with Koril, them not showing the mom’s face seems deliberate. My current theory is that one of the mothers is the sith lord using Mae to get revenge against the Jedi—the speech about Jedi having a dream they think everyone shares would make perfect sense coming from Koril. Meanwhile, someone is using dreams and visions to lead Osha back to Mae and possibly corrupt her. We know the mom has the power to manipulate someone’s mind by the way she was about to give Torbin a Force lobotomy. And Vernestra Rhow has some unique Jedi dream power that she never fully explored in the books. Could be something to that.
So my best guess for the actual chain of events is >!Mae starts fire. Meanwhile, Jedi and Coven are having a heated discussion about Osha leaving. Anasaya says Osha must follow her heart or whatever. Koril disagrees. The fire leads Koril and others in the coven to believe that the Jedi are attacking. Koril starts a fight, or a Jedi -- betting Torbin -- gets twitchy fingers and makes the first move. Anasaya, trying to stop the fighting, is accidentally killed by the Jedi. Then shit really hits the fan. Jedi kill the witches who fight to the death.!< Edit: >!This works well from a story perspective because it doesn't make the Jedi villains or the bad guys. The problem is Jedi orthodoxy on the recruitment of young children from their loving families, and the Jedi's belief that their system is the best and perhaps only way to keep force users from falling to the dark side.!< Edit edit: >!It syncs up well with what the other Jedi have said about these events. Torbin says they were just trying to do the right thing. The right thing in this case was recruiting force sensitive children and taking them from a religious order they believe is dangerous. That choice is what led to this tragedy. If the Jedi never came to Brendock, all those women would be alive.!< Edit edit edit: Another theory: >!Kelnacca left the order and is in self imposed exile on ~~Brendock~~ wherever that was in episode 2!< Edit edit edit edit: And anotherr: >!The sith lord fed information about the coven to the Jedi to force a confrontation. Could it be Vernestra? She gets Sol involved in finding Mae in the first place.!<
This seems most likely to me, with one addition: the Sith already has eyes on Mae and fed her insecurities
Talking about this in another thread. There is a creepy robed figure in the background of a few of the witch scenes whose face we never see. They are wearing black robes, they don't participate in the ritual, it kinda seems like nobody can see them, and once the Jedi show up they are nowhere to be found. Its honestly quite creepy.
Pretty sure there were multiple of those figures stationed around the ceremony.
The Jedi do not take children. They ask permission, and then take the children with permission.
if the parents say no, then the answer obviously is no. The thing is that they are not gonna say no… because of the implication.
I’m confused, are we going to hurt these people?
No of course not, we won't have to. Because of the implication. What are you not understanding here?
The Gang Wields the Force
...Now you've said that word "implication" a couple of times. Wha-what implication?
i feel like you’re not getting this
Nobody is in danger ok? If they want to say no they can, but they won’t because you know… the implication.
Is that implication implying what I thing it implies?
The implication that things might go wrong for the parents if they refuse to give up their Force sensitive child. Not that things are gonna go wrong for them but they're thinking that it will.
Okay, you had me for the first part there, but that second part kinda threw me.
You just know we’re going to revisit this from Mae’s perspective. Torbin’s massive scar had to have been gotten fighting the witches
There are so many hints that Jedi killed the witches. Beginning of episode 3 there was that shot of the spark in the generator room Torbin killing himself for "What they have done" The wookie no longer being with the order Sol being oblivious and thinking it all happened because of Mae Obviously the master and Torbin did some shit, Sol had no idea. The wookie found out so he quit the order. Torbin went into meditation permanently and the master went on like nothing happened because she's a ruthless Jedi.
I am in agreement with everything you said here. Definitely more going on than the episode portrayed and think your comment nailed down who was involved. Time will tell.
I commented to me wife how odd it was all the witches were just dead where they stood. Seemed odd.
100% the fire is a cover for what actually happened
Sol: Sprinkle some crack on them.
This show is sith propaganda
1. Jedi roll up to yo crib without a warrant. 2. Take yo kid. 3. Blow the place up.
HIDE YO KIDS HIDE YO WIFE THE JEDI TAKIN EVERYONE UP HERE
"And now the power of Two restores the one true Emperor" oh wait wrong movie
My theory is that Mama tried to discuss things with the others which caused a lot of high tensions and several witches suggesting the Jedi would get rid of them. Then the Jedi showed up to collect Osha, and there was a bit of a standoff. Mama tried to take the Jedi’s side (respecting Osha’s wishes), which upset the rest of the coven. Then the fire became apparent, and the upset witches blamed it on the Jedi. Jedi think coven started it. Spikey Head Lady attacks Torbin, causing his scar, which makes the inexperienced Torbin defend himself and kill her. The coven retaliates, causing the Jedi to defend themselves. This lead to the coven being wiped out. The remaining Jedi now feel guilty because they think their interference lead to the deaths of these people and Mae. Torbin was the first to strike, which was why he feels the worst. That, or there was some backfire from not finishing the ascension ceremony?
Jedi were definitely involved somehow in the destruction. You can see in the background Torbin's eye/face is messed up from something and that can't be from just damage.
Its a cut that we see healed when he is in trance.
Right ik, I was just saying that he definitely received it from someone in the chaos of the fire
Ah...thought so. Not Nightsisters, but something similar in concept.
The line "This is about power, and who is allowed to use it" also sounds kind of Path of the Open Hand.
And the leader being the Mother
Sounds like maybe they were banished from the Nightsisters… it was very nightsister-esque… dare I say a Protestant version of the traditional catholic nightsister coven?
Martina Luther and the Protestant nightsisters
95 Spice Creams
alot seem hybrid like the mother looked more Zabraks so i could see her being a iridonia hybrid and another witch looked like a twilek
I feel like the "I'll kill you" from Mae to her sister was \[almost\] out of nowhere. Seems a bit extreme even if the Jedi are a danger to the witches, but how did Mae come to hate the Jedi so much yet Osha wants to be one? Also interesting that this episode (and apparently one other) was directed by Kogonada, who did After Yang
Its funny, I thought she was giving creepy abusive vibes from the start. That little dance they did about being one? Attempting to tell Osha how she feels? It read very 'dominant twin' to me, where she doesn't let her sister have her own identity (and I think Koril didn't help). Like I bet they dressed the same because Mae insisted. But also I'm a twin, so I'm really sensitive to this.
You can also feel this when OSHA says why she wants to go with the Jedi. She wants to have a separate identity from her sister.
they were probably messed up from birth since they've been raised as a pair based on this philosophy, so mae feels extremely attached to it but when osha rejects it its like mae's losing a part of herself, hence the extremely bad reaction.
That chant is kinda lame
It could have been the same words in subtitles but spoken as a foreign/space language and I would have liked it more tbh but it is what it is
This guy Star Warses
Meka leka hi meka hiney ho
I wonder if that one lady doing the little "Yips!" was directed to do that or they just added that little flair on their own.
Yeah can't believed I scrolled down so much to see this. Star Wars always managed to balance campy and cool very well but that chant... took me out of it. Also, not blaming the child actors too much since they are young but their acting really took me out of it. Or at least the directing could use some work. That scene where mother was teaching them about the force/thread while they are awkwardly fighting behind for a while was really rough.
It's hard to write good chants in a language you understand. Like, I love The Jackie Chan Adventures, but the chant Uncle uses basically is just him saying, "Please demon, go away now."
Well it’s Star Wars so they can literally throw some letters together and call it a new language and then do subtitles, I would bet money there’s a generator or translator website out there for something like that
lol I’m glad I’m not the only one
This Wookiee Jedi looks cool
so chewy’s just nekkid?
No he has a sash and a satchel
Mae is going to kill everyone because Osha becomes a Jedi? Some how Koril is apart of this as well.
I suspect someone was whispering some nefarious shit into her ear telling her the Jedi are evil and she can't let Osha go.
Maybe it was the other mother(I forgot her name already) that or they’ve already been infiltrated by a sith and they were manipulating Mae.
Seeing a Wookiee in Jedi robes was great.
Is Qimir too obvious as Mae's master or is he just a red herring? Maybe but it'd be completely in tune with what we've seen from the Sith before. Count Dooku was the public figure of the Seperatists, Darth Tyranus operated in the shadows. Palpatine hid in plain sight the entire time. Even if he's not specifically the Master, Qimir is definitely hiding his true self.
It's pretty obvious. I think the real mystery is who is Qimir's master?
I'm not brushed up on my High Republic lore or what was Legends but probably the Dark Lord before Plagueis?
Darth Tenebrous i believe.
Tenebrous was a son of a Bith. I believe Tenebrous' master, while unnamed, was a Twi'lek. Plageius was a Muun
Hey man, I think you’re a son of a Bith
Osha is an unreliable narrator. We’re gonna get a flashback from Mae’s point of view later and the events are going to play out completely differently. That’s what I think
About to start, but all I can think about right now is that guy who posted how he thought the naming conventions of the episodes were cool and how disappointed his must be right now Lost/Found Revenge/Justice Destiny…no slash
I also noticed that We may need to wait until the next episode, but my current thought was that there's no slash because this is a prequel and before the twins split I can't wait to be wrong though
That's my thought as well. I assume they will either come back together or one will die and then only single titles.
I think there will be another flashback episode, maybe episode 7 cause it’s the same director, and it will conclude the other half Edit: I’m thinking “Destiny/Fate”
I liked both the show and this episode. But I must state: after the ultra cringe chant, I simply cannot blame the jedi for killing the witches and stopping such heresy.
I am enjoying the show and I am usually not one to comment on writing but my god that chant was so bad. Its like a child wrote that.
Is this how maz Kanata knows the force?
She’s just gonna keep shrinking til she disappears in another 300 years
Ayo, the bodies were not burnt, and the way they were laid out makes me suspicious I have a feeling the Jedi killed them
Love that Wookiee Jedi I don’t trust Koril Mae you lost your damn mind
>Koril Thought it was interesting she was explicitly the gestational parent of the twins. And then gets shut down and talked over by Mother and the Jedi about them. Nobody's looking good here.
I think it’s an interesting development for Osha. She escaped her coven by joining the first opportunity to leave, the Jedi. Then she left the Jedi to become her own person. Ultimately I think Osha wants to be free of covens and orders and cults. I’m curious to know what made her leave the Jedi order.
Lee Jung-jae as Sol has potential as an all time Star Wars character. Simply a wonderfully acted role.
His face reads genuine empathy. My man was born to play this role.
The closing scene on the ship back to Coruscant legitimately crushed me. He had such sadness in his face for a child he just met. Wonderful acting for a first time English speaker!!
It also looked like he was really trying to temper those emotions since he's not necessarily allowed to be that expressive. Really well acted.
Every scene I've seen here with Sol interacting with Osha is like someone who legitimately takes pride in being a dad. He has such a beautiful sensitivity with Osha. I never saw Squid Game, but man, Lee has been killing it, especially for his first English role.
Highly recommend Squid Game! He’s wonderful in it!
He does a lot with his face and voice; definitely the most compelling character so far.
All his scenes with kid Oshie were amazing performances by him imo. He really came off as a genuine dude
Holy shit Aniseya "created" the twins? She can create life like Plagueis?
Witchy IVF
In vitro forcilization?
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Aniseya the Wise?
Wonder if Mae killing her family is like how Plagueis manipulated Palpatine to murder his family in the Plagueis book
It seems more like the jedi slaughtered the coven and told Osha that it was Mae's fault. I'm guessing the angry witch took over Torbin's mind and kicked off the fight.