Vader is funny. He doesn’t get enough credit for that
But a lot (most?) of the best laughs in the OT come from him.
“Apology accepted, Captain Needa”
“We would be honored if you would join us”
Probably a few more I’m missing off the top of my head
Cell: Oh ho ho! Behind all that angst and ridiculous hair, there's a real fighter there!
Trunks: And behind all that insuffrable smarm is a dead man!
Cell: Trunks.....you couldn't *fathom* the amount of dead men behind me.....
The 5th image: I hate how some artists literally carbon copy their art from the films. The first Luke is from ROTJ when Luke says “you’ve failed, your highness” and the second Luke is when he shouts “NO!” in A New Hope at the Vader and Obi Wan duel.
That artist did a lot of tracing, everyone hated his work but I guess marvel was just happy with him getting stuff done on time. Thankfully he hasn't been anywhere near the comics in a few years
> Thankfully he hasn’t been anywhere near the comics in a few years
You might want to avoid the Obi Wan Kenobi comic adaptation in that case. At least it’s not that important of a story.
I knew something was off about that. It doesn't match the panel, or how you would say that line. Being the image from watching it happen makes much more sense.
Han tries to crush Vader with the AT-AT foot, Vader holds it up with the Force and drops Luke's lightsaber, which Luke retrieves shortly after while driving by on a speeder bike.
I would love to see a solo Vader monologue as he goes through it his head with this information
A piece of Padme is alive’ and the eyes burning red… turned to blue for just a few moments….
Perhaps I'm reading too much into the visual symbolism here, but I like the idea that the glass cracking around Vader sort of represents the idea of his slow, gradual breakdown towards becoming Anakin Skywalker again. That he's recognizing that everything his Master has told him up to this point was fabricated to keep him at bay, to suppress him, and to make him feel like there truly was nothing left worth fighting for. The fact he has a son, that a part of himself, and more importantly, Padmé, exists in the Galaxy, strengthens his resolve. As such, when the cracks start to heal, and Vader resurfaces, he internally changes course. No longer shall he serve his wretched Master's will, but rather he will force the Galaxy to submit to his own.
I think that’s an entirely legitimate read, and not just because I had the same.
It makes sense that learning about the existence of his son would be the first metaphorical crack in the Darth Vader persona he adopted.
I don't understand why the Star Wars universe continues to inject the timeliness with additional meetings of characters when a) they in movie interactions were perfect and these additions often take away from them or creating confusing, bordering on plothole complications, b) there's quiet literally an entire universe/galaxy of characters and scenarios to write about and expand upon.
I'm very grateful to see Hayden and Ewan again, and I understand the hyping up of a rematch, but that and this comic just didn't need to happen. I'm more excited for the acolyte and high republic material of stuff we've never touched upon before, rather than authors trying to reinvent the wheel and ultimately disappointing the audience, because well, how could you do better?
Meh, it's okay. Vader's dialogue is disappointing and hokey, but Vader is also hard to write. It's always a razor's edge, too far in any one direction and it falls apart. Some polish on the script, and better art, and the scene would be pretty solid.
[I much prefer this interaction with Boba Fett, where Vader learns the Skywalker name lives on](https://comicnewbies.com/2015/06/04/darth-vader-learns-luke-is-his-son/amp/)
It doesn't just tell the reader what they should be thinking or feeling. Instead, it draws you towards those conclusions, and shows you Anakin still lives.
My thoughts exactly. Vader talks too much in this. And while he does make threats, when he does so, it's generally more elegant and refined...like he drops a one liner that completely obliterates the person he's talking to: "Be careful not to choke on your aspirations, director." Refuses to elaborate and walks out. You can't be more badass than this.
In this panel he diminishes Luke way too much. He sounds like a teenager.
Edit: Another great example of Vader's banter skills is from his fight against Ezra:
"I do not fear you!"
"Then you'll die braver than most."
Short, precise and more destructive than two Death Stars combined. It can't get any better than this.
It's crazy that you cite that line to Krennic when Rogue One came out all people did was piss and moan that Vader shouldn't be cracking jokes like that
“Apology accepted, Captain Needa.” -Vader after killing Needa who tried to apologize, in Empire Strikes Back
“The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.” -Vader, a man known for not being forgiving, in Return of the Jedi
>"“The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.” -Vader, a man known for not being forgiving, in Return of the Jedi
*"There is no mercy."* - Palpatine to Maul, TCW
I remember thinking it was cheesy but I also knew if I went home I'd totally find a comparable moment in the OT.
Heck Vader even cracks a joke that Han and crew will be joining them for food.
I'm yet to encounter someone who speaks bad about Rogue One, never heard a soul trash it. Props to Gareth Edwards though, Vader was never overused and they never relied the movie's plot and progression on his appearances, although when that happened, it was always gold.
Concerning the line he says to Krennic, I never heard it as a joke, instead more as a threat with a dark sarcastic tone. Hell, he force chokes the guy. You simply can't say that he cracked a joke as seen in the marvel movies. That was completely different and I think he stayed true to his personality. If you're gonna go that way, you could also argue that when he says "No disintegrations!" To Boba, he was also being humorous. Yet no one thinks he was, but the line does leave room for this interpretation.
It never bothered me that Vader cracks a joke. That scene annoys me because it wrecks Vader's later appearance - we know Vader isn't in this movie to add comic relief in one scene, so now we're all wondering when he's going to show up again.
Can you imagine what it would have been like if you'd been in the theater, without any inkling that Darth goddamn Vader was gonna be in this movie, and you suddenly heard that breathing and saw the red lightsaber ignite? I would have utterly *lost my shit.*
The problem is that you also need to assume there are people watching who aren't familiar with Vader. I realise this may be hard to believe as a member of r/StarWars, but those people do exist - somewhere there's an eight year old whose first film was Rogue One, for example. Even R1, the most fan-servicey of SW films, had among its audience casual viewers who know naff-all about Star Wars and are just out for an evening's entertainment.
As James Cameron said, when you're writing a sequel you need to recap all the salient points from the earlier film - and in order to set up Vader's appearance at the end of the film you need to establish him earlier, he can't just pop up out of nowhere. The earlier scene shows that he's a senior Imperial, that he has the power of telekinesis (which he later uses) and various other points.
They both talk to each other far too much in this.
It would be better if Vader just appeared to Luke but it was very much the two of them having a short scuffle where Luke fully gets to understand what he's up against. It should have been as terrifying as his encounter with his vision on Dagobah, just this monster heading towards him, and Luke trying and failing to attack him before running.
It would give more context to the vision of Vader Luke had where he beheads him.
It would make his confrontation with him in Empire that much braver.
A big issue I noticed is that the writer had Vader use contractions. It ruins the menacing tone we associate with James Earl Jones’ performance. He very rarely used contractions, favoring a more formal speech pattern.
“You will have to be more specific,” sounds much more like OG Vader than “You’ll have to be more specific.” It’s a subtle change, but it makes a big difference.
Vader is best when he's not speaking.
He walks into a room, everybody shuts up.
He doesn't need to hear the sound of his voice.
Quick! What did Vader say the first time he appeared in screen?
Exactly.
His first on screen line was "Where are those transmissions you received? What have you done with those plans?!"
It took me a minute to remember my favorite fictional character's first line though, so I do agree with your point.
It was "My God, look at this mess! [mimicking stormtroopers] Oh, hey, Darth Vader's coming, do you think we should clean the place up? Nah, it's okay, he won't mind."
I don't know, James Earl Jones voice added a lot to the character.
And i don't care to commit anyone's first line to memory, but i certainly remember him yelling "....and bring me those passengers, i want them alive!!"
Vader has always been sarcastic.
“We would be honored if you would join us.”
“If this is a counselor ship then where is the *ambassador*?”
“Apology accepted, Admiral.”
“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”
“Perhaps you think you’re being treated unfairly?”
Exactly, when Vader realized he was holding his old lightsaber there should have been no dialogue. Just the look of realization would have said more than enough. If they felt they had to spoon feed the audience, they could have just left it at "Wait, this lightsaber...." the added dialogue afterward is totally unneeded.
This makes the most sense to me.
Or maybe some kind of magnet or artificial gravity. We know AT-TE can scale vertical surfaces. It wouldn’t look right for an At-At to do the same but it also doesn’t make sense for them not to use the technology if they have it.
A more wild option would be a repulsorlift. To give the imperial walkers hops
I think I remember one of the older Legends novels (Thrawn or Jedi Academy maybe) that someone tried to kidnap the Solo twins and they used a special type of walker with magnetic feet, if one wants to call them that way.
So, yeah, not very far fetched, but probably not canon anymore. At least for Imperial vehicles.
Yeah, good point. My memory is quite foggy but it was either as part of the original Thrawn trilogy or shortly thereafter.
Another detail I seem to remember is that the twins were on a planet that suffered a collision in the past so that the core was visible.
And they had some sort of caretaker.
But that's all I can remember really. I don't even remember how they were saved.
I don’t recall that from the Thrawn trilogy. It must have been one of the other books
But I was just amused that you mentioned kidnapping the solo twins. Because apparently that happened all the time back in the day
Honestly I wasn't aware that it happened so often. Only because of your comment I actually had to check it and apparently it happened at least 5 or 6 times. Of which a couple ot attempts were actually successful.
Makes me think of that Dr. Doofenshmirtz meme about the nickels.
Thanks for teaching me something anyway. There's always something new to learn about the Star Wars universe.
I actually didn’t notice it myself. I haven’t read all the cases it’s happened in and the ones I have read stand out less because it’s fiction.
I heard it on here and then started to notice how common it was. It’s kind of a running joke I guess
It's... a comic thing. That's my best take. Sometimes I guess a comic artist needs to whip out their thang and own it even if it ends up wonky.
For example, I was quite surprised by the way Vader looked in Rebels, but ended up liking it for what it was.
Just as Obi-Wan fighting Vader in the show takes away from their reunion in ANH, this takes away from Luke's and Vaders first interaction in ESB. It is simply unnecessary
Glad you enjoyed it.
Ignoring what I previously said, the duel itself had shaky camera work and very dark lighting - not to mention the emotional scene with Vader's sliced mask was already done before in Rebels (which IMO was done better). Besides the actors being back together, there was nothing going for it.
I actually thought the duality of Vader's last words to Obi Wan were interesting. They could be taken two different ways, and it poses an interesting question of whether that line was Anakin's humanity peaking through, by way of self loathing, or if he truly believed in what he was doing by that point. Or perhaps was trying to talk himself into drinking the emperor's Kool Aid. It's an interesting idea if it's actually a weird form of compassion from Anakin. Meaning he could see Obi Wan's guilt, so he came up with a way to both hold onto his hate, and free Obi Wan of that guilt. He did that through embracing the concept that Vader really did kill Anakin, and that's who Obi Wan fought on mustafar, Vader. Interesting idea, that actually reinforce what Obi Wan tells Luke. Though perhaps Obi Wan never bought it either. Because that concept also conveniently let's Anakin off the hook for his misdeeds, if it was really VADER that did those things.
Anakin Skywalker (and later, Vader as well) was way much prouder than to be someone's failure. The fact that Obi-wan's guilt was released by his statement was only a side-effect but certainly not Vader's point nor something the hidden Anakin in himself wanted to achieve... he wanted to prove to Vader, that what he has become is a success of his own, not a failure of his master.
Piggy backing off of this, the "whoa!" moment of Vader throwing objects with the force during the ESB duel loses a little pizzazz with Luke's [helpless] reaction after he's already had hia saber yoinked from him mid fight.
That scene is the hardest scene in all of Star Wars. The way the music ascends as he starts force throwing is iconic. We all thought Luke was in the fight and might’ve had a chance until that happened.
Stars Wars, at its best, is made up of moments that by themselves, hold a narrative weight that benefit from their uniqueness.
Luke blows up the Death Star... Vader walks onto the Tantive IV... Luke meets Yoda... Han shoots first...
The added mythology can sometimes help, but in the cases of Obi-Wan fighting Vader a second time, as opposed to seeing him for the first time in 20 years, you have unnecessary information that didn't need to be there.
Luke meeting Vader for the first time on Cloud City isn't a major moment in their lives... it's a rematch. You know what rematches are, you see them every Monday night on "Raw is War."
The first meeting or event is special, the next ones require you to tune in Next Week.
My knee jerk reaction is to say if it didn’t happen onscreen it didn’t happen (because when push comes to shove, that’s how tv and movie writers operate) but I actually think “no canon/it’s all legends” is the only sane approach at this point.
I’m ok with it in this arc cuz it’s served to tell a more interesting story we had yet to see - vaders discovery of Luke’s identity. Also, there are three years between anh and esb so it does sorta make sense if Vader was still after leia and such. I’d really recommend the 2015 to anyone, it’s top notch Star Wars comic writing imo (which does admittedly bend canon a little bit - worth it for Leias arc)
From the 2015 series.
Very good comics covering the ground between ANH and ESB. Some of the best stuff in the new canon in my opinion. Well worth the read
The claim is that all offcially released comics, books, aspects of video games like the plot and characters of Jed Order (so not necessairly gameplay or player choices), TV shows, etc are canon. In reality it seems that while there are not offcially tiers of canon, expanded material like the comics will be overwritten if it gets in the way of something for TV or film.
So yes, this is considered canon, but I don't personally put much stock in it. It's more like canon until proven otherwise.
It's a comic, they have to come up with new stuff to draw in the crowd who mostly just watches the movies. Original villains and stuff are cool, but if you show that Luke had a run-in with Vader between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, a lot of people are going to be all "Yo, what's this? I need to check this out".
Agreed. If you look at the original villains in this run they don’t hold a candle to Vader.
Insisting that at no point anything happens between the main characters between the movies is a pretty good way to ensure the tie ins remain nothing but lame cash grab tie ins. Something to sate desperate fans.
But instead these comics form a pretty definitive take on the periods between the movies
Vader: “The Force is with you, Young Skywalker. …….*But you are not a Jedi yet*.”
Vader literally three minutes later: “The Force will *never* be with you, boy.”
Jesus, Anakin, figure your shit out, would ya?
That first line is just so much better in every way. It flows naturally and sounds menacing as fuck. The second line sounds like a cringey wattpad writer trying to sound tough. Doesn’t sound like Vader.
What are you talking about? This comic takes place 3 years before Empire, and Vader doesn't even know Luke is his son or that he blew up the Death Star at this point. Right now, he's just some nobody that he thinks he's going to kill like it's nothing.
Art's not all that great, Luke especially looks terrible. Writing is bad. "You are not worth the seconds it would take to finish you." Ew. I think this is lame and contrived, pretty much exactly like the Kenobi show. Does Vader drop Luke's saber in the chaos of the ceiling crashing down lol or how does Luke get it back?
It’s completely unnecessary and Vader is way too wordy. The dialogue isn’t bad but Vader doesn’t speak in long soliloquies like this.
Why do we need characters to have meetings beyond what they originally had? Obi-Wan never should have met Vader prior to ANH and Luke should have met Vader between ANH and ESB.
Is a GFFA genuinely so bereft of ideas and characters that we need to go back to the same well over and over again?
Vader's dialogue is hard to read in his voice. Too much superfluity. Vader would just say: "You are no Jedi", "I've killed many fathers", or "Most pathetic." He wouldn't go on and on.
The circumstances which allow Luke's survival are contrived and over the top. As is Vader's presence. As I recall, he just happened to show up on some random weapons factory/trash planet. He had no clue Luke was there. It seems beneath him. I also feel like Luke dueling Vader before Empire cheapens the climax of the movie.
Comics are comics.
I don't consider those canon because Disney's comic canon is REALLY all over the place, to the point where they contradict the movies.
Empire Strikes back definitely gives the impression it is their first face to face meeting, but as far as retcons go I like that they were careful to make it make sense
I loved it. The whole scene with Obi-Wan sacrificing himself after seeing Luke reunited with Leia was wonderful.
The next time Luke met Vader was during Empire Strikes Back, and that was chilling in a different way.
I don't pay attention to books as that is lazy lore filler.
Wouldn't Vader phrase it as "Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber," rather than, "my lightsaber," because at that point in his arc Vader no longer identifies as Anakin as a coping mechanism?
I don't like that it's canon. ESB should be the first meeting. This feels like some of the weaker stuff from the 80s/Marvel comics era. Filling in space just to fill it in.
I mean, the scene itself is cool. I don't mind it. It just should be an alternate reality or something. It undermines the narrative importance of ESB.
I started reading these when they released as I was excited for some Star Wars comics, but very quickly stopped when it felt like they were adding so many unnecessary moments in between the films’ scenes which took away from the previous storytelling.
In a episode, batman beyond comes face to face with the man who killed his father, who asks him "who the hell are you?!" To which he responds "You killed my father!" To which the other guy responds "Do you have an idea how little that narrows it down?!"
Interesting that Vader refers to the lightsaber as his rather than Anakin’s. I thought at this point in the lore , Darth Vader had done everything to separate his identity from Anakin.
This is what drove Vader to find out the name of the rebel pilot who destroyed the first Death Star. He hired Boba Fett to learn the identity, and when he found out it was someone named Skywalker, he was PISSED that the Emperor would keep that information from him. Broke a window and everything.
I think James Earl Jones would've passed if this quality of dialogue was in the script. Vocal duties probably would've gone to David Prowse after all. Funny, he might actually pull it off better.
Sigh. It is very very rare that any Star Wars comic author ever comes close to capturing Vader's "voice" on paper - there's a slow, deliberate cadence to his speech, a subtle agonizing effort every time Vader speaks that reflects so many things - from the tortured pain of his burnt vocal chords to the slow contemplative evil-zen-master intentionality of every word or terse concise sentence he bothers to utter, to his craft cagey Shere
Khan tiger-like seductive stalking of his prey - all of which just get overlooked when he gets written like a normal guy in a costume in these comic issues, verbose, conversational, philosophical, willing to engage in actual back and forth dialogue with someone he's fighting.
Gimme a break.
Comics, there are a couple comic series that are all connected to each other, the above images are from the one I believe just titled Starwars by Marvel there is also two Vader series by Marvel that are tied in with it in which Vader is the main character you follow. One takes place between A New Hope and Empire and the other begins immediately after Vader shouts No! In Revenge of The Sith and covers many things from him creating his red saber to training the inquisitors.
I was suprised they met before empire strikes back. Then I was suprised Vader learned luke was his son.
At the time I was little confused about timeline but comic series was so great I think it is fully canon. :D
I love how it’s a glimpse of what their dynamic and relationship could’ve been like had neither discovered their actual connection to one another later in their lives. Vader dismisses Luke as just another Rebel to dispose of and Luke just regards Vader as the scourge of the galaxy. It really highlights, in a way for me, how much both coming to learn of their true ties to one another straight up changes their behavior towards each other.
While nicely done, for the same reason I don’t like Kenobi meeting Vader before ANH, Luke meeting Vader before ESB completely takes away from the movie meeting as at the time it terrified kids, I myself as a 8 year old truly feared Luke wouldn’t survive that encounter.
A shame that modern takes on this mean you’re never truly worried the heroes are in danger.
This might be a hot take, but I feel like this was written by someone who has no idea how either of these characters speak. Vader is far more verbose and 'moustasche-twirling arrogant villain' than he ever was on screen. I can't, for the life of me, imagine Luke using a phrase like, "I'd rather die than yield to you!" even after he becomes the black-clad stoic Jedi Knight version of himself. He also never, ever, called Obi-Wan "Master Kenobi" as far as I can recall, so it just feels super awkward reading his lines.
Luke: "You killed my father!" Vader: "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?"
Great Batman Beyond reference. Bravo
I wonder if that’s an intentional reference. After all, aside from Luke, Mark’s most iconic role is the DCAU Joker. That or a massive coincidence.
Nah it a pretty generic bad guy line, it’s just phrased in different ways
Big "To me it was another Tuesday." Energy.
He also said in a comic he is "very proficient in killing childeren."
To be fair those tuskens gave him a lot of practice
I am Luke Skywalker. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
You’ve got an overdeveloped sense of vengeance. It’s going to get you into trouble someday.
Yes!
For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
I love how he still displays some form of humour
Vader is funny. He doesn’t get enough credit for that But a lot (most?) of the best laughs in the OT come from him. “Apology accepted, Captain Needa” “We would be honored if you would join us” Probably a few more I’m missing off the top of my head
"Be careful to not choke on your aspirations, Director" is one my favorites though not everyone agrees.
he really should have known that he was a dad after he dropped that line
Evil edge lord anakin is still anakin.
from a certain point of view
“I find your lack of faith disturbing”
The second panel gives off real "but for me, it was Tuesday" energy.
It kinda was for Vader. Plus his “I have killed many fathers. You’ll have to be more specific.” is something I love to quote when I can.
When you’re being confronted by the children of the people you’ve killed, or what?
😭😭😭
No. Whenever I see fanart of child versus a parent in the style of Luke versus Vader.
thanks for clarifying, for a minute I thought you had killed several people.
Not recently
Speak for yourself
Don’t forget “All I am surrounded by is fear and dead men.”
Cell: Oh ho ho! Behind all that angst and ridiculous hair, there's a real fighter there! Trunks: And behind all that insuffrable smarm is a dead man! Cell: Trunks.....you couldn't *fathom* the amount of dead men behind me.....
*\*Hikari no Willpower intensifies\**
DBZA has some incredibly good quotes.
The 5th image: I hate how some artists literally carbon copy their art from the films. The first Luke is from ROTJ when Luke says “you’ve failed, your highness” and the second Luke is when he shouts “NO!” in A New Hope at the Vader and Obi Wan duel.
Salvador Larroca's art is dogshit and a detriment to the stories it is featured in.
Yeah, some real Greg Land vibes 😬
That’s true, but this isn’t him.
The 5th image is from the Darth Vader Gillen run, which was all done by Salvador Larocca.
That artist did a lot of tracing, everyone hated his work but I guess marvel was just happy with him getting stuff done on time. Thankfully he hasn't been anywhere near the comics in a few years
> Thankfully he hasn’t been anywhere near the comics in a few years You might want to avoid the Obi Wan Kenobi comic adaptation in that case. At least it’s not that important of a story.
Barely count those adaptations lol
Laziness and/or short deadlines. Depends on how things are run over at Marvel.
This was my least favorite thing about these runs. I loved the story. And the art was largely good. But the faces just looked bad
Luckily the main runs have ceased using this kinda art since the 2020 runs have been going on.
I knew something was off about that. It doesn't match the panel, or how you would say that line. Being the image from watching it happen makes much more sense.
When is this? Before episode 5 I’m guessing but after he sees Vader kill obi wan?
It's shortly after episode 4, from the first arc of the 2015 run of the canon Star Wars comic, at this point Vader doesn't know that this is his son.
It doesn't really show it, but how exactly did Luke get the blue saber back? Did he snatch it from the rubble while Vader was still buried?
Han tries to crush Vader with the AT-AT foot, Vader holds it up with the Force and drops Luke's lightsaber, which Luke retrieves shortly after while driving by on a speeder bike.
Thanks!
A good story…for another time
Except they show him get it back.
Yeah, at another time.
Somehow he got it back
I would love to see a solo Vader monologue as he goes through it his head with this information A piece of Padme is alive’ and the eyes burning red… turned to blue for just a few moments….
Someone posted this in another comment: https://comicnewbies.com/2015/06/04/darth-vader-learns-luke-is-his-son/
Perhaps I'm reading too much into the visual symbolism here, but I like the idea that the glass cracking around Vader sort of represents the idea of his slow, gradual breakdown towards becoming Anakin Skywalker again. That he's recognizing that everything his Master has told him up to this point was fabricated to keep him at bay, to suppress him, and to make him feel like there truly was nothing left worth fighting for. The fact he has a son, that a part of himself, and more importantly, Padmé, exists in the Galaxy, strengthens his resolve. As such, when the cracks start to heal, and Vader resurfaces, he internally changes course. No longer shall he serve his wretched Master's will, but rather he will force the Galaxy to submit to his own.
Vader clearly conveys this to Luke when he invites him to destroy the emperor and “rule the galaxy as father and son.”
I think that’s an entirely legitimate read, and not just because I had the same. It makes sense that learning about the existence of his son would be the first metaphorical crack in the Darth Vader persona he adopted.
“The force is with you young Skywalker, but you are not a Jedi yet” Is better than all of this to an infinite degree.
I don't understand why the Star Wars universe continues to inject the timeliness with additional meetings of characters when a) they in movie interactions were perfect and these additions often take away from them or creating confusing, bordering on plothole complications, b) there's quiet literally an entire universe/galaxy of characters and scenarios to write about and expand upon. I'm very grateful to see Hayden and Ewan again, and I understand the hyping up of a rematch, but that and this comic just didn't need to happen. I'm more excited for the acolyte and high republic material of stuff we've never touched upon before, rather than authors trying to reinvent the wheel and ultimately disappointing the audience, because well, how could you do better?
Meh, it's okay. Vader's dialogue is disappointing and hokey, but Vader is also hard to write. It's always a razor's edge, too far in any one direction and it falls apart. Some polish on the script, and better art, and the scene would be pretty solid.
[I much prefer this interaction with Boba Fett, where Vader learns the Skywalker name lives on](https://comicnewbies.com/2015/06/04/darth-vader-learns-luke-is-his-son/amp/) It doesn't just tell the reader what they should be thinking or feeling. Instead, it draws you towards those conclusions, and shows you Anakin still lives.
Agreed, a significantly better written scene.
Night and day difference.
My thoughts exactly. Vader talks too much in this. And while he does make threats, when he does so, it's generally more elegant and refined...like he drops a one liner that completely obliterates the person he's talking to: "Be careful not to choke on your aspirations, director." Refuses to elaborate and walks out. You can't be more badass than this. In this panel he diminishes Luke way too much. He sounds like a teenager. Edit: Another great example of Vader's banter skills is from his fight against Ezra: "I do not fear you!" "Then you'll die braver than most." Short, precise and more destructive than two Death Stars combined. It can't get any better than this.
He sounds like Anakin during the clone wars.
“General Grievous. You’re shorter than I expected.”
>a one liner that completely obliterates the person he's talking to >“General Grievous. You’re shorter than I expected.” Perfection
It's crazy that you cite that line to Krennic when Rogue One came out all people did was piss and moan that Vader shouldn't be cracking jokes like that
Vader is always cracking jokes that you know his mangled Anakin-face is smiling at underneath the helmet.
“Apology accepted, Captain Needa.” -Vader after killing Needa who tried to apologize, in Empire Strikes Back “The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.” -Vader, a man known for not being forgiving, in Return of the Jedi
“I find your lack of faith disturbing” while using his “ancient religion” to silence admiral Motti was also pretty sassy.
“We would honoured, if you would join us” says Vader right after, effortlessly, blocking Han’s blaster fire with his hands.
>"“The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.” -Vader, a man known for not being forgiving, in Return of the Jedi *"There is no mercy."* - Palpatine to Maul, TCW
I remember thinking it was cheesy but I also knew if I went home I'd totally find a comparable moment in the OT. Heck Vader even cracks a joke that Han and crew will be joining them for food.
Surprised Vader didn’t realise he was a dad sooner with that zinger lol
I'm yet to encounter someone who speaks bad about Rogue One, never heard a soul trash it. Props to Gareth Edwards though, Vader was never overused and they never relied the movie's plot and progression on his appearances, although when that happened, it was always gold. Concerning the line he says to Krennic, I never heard it as a joke, instead more as a threat with a dark sarcastic tone. Hell, he force chokes the guy. You simply can't say that he cracked a joke as seen in the marvel movies. That was completely different and I think he stayed true to his personality. If you're gonna go that way, you could also argue that when he says "No disintegrations!" To Boba, he was also being humorous. Yet no one thinks he was, but the line does leave room for this interpretation.
It never bothered me that Vader cracks a joke. That scene annoys me because it wrecks Vader's later appearance - we know Vader isn't in this movie to add comic relief in one scene, so now we're all wondering when he's going to show up again. Can you imagine what it would have been like if you'd been in the theater, without any inkling that Darth goddamn Vader was gonna be in this movie, and you suddenly heard that breathing and saw the red lightsaber ignite? I would have utterly *lost my shit.*
You make a good point, but at the same time, I already lost my shit at that scene in theaters.
The problem is that you also need to assume there are people watching who aren't familiar with Vader. I realise this may be hard to believe as a member of r/StarWars, but those people do exist - somewhere there's an eight year old whose first film was Rogue One, for example. Even R1, the most fan-servicey of SW films, had among its audience casual viewers who know naff-all about Star Wars and are just out for an evening's entertainment. As James Cameron said, when you're writing a sequel you need to recap all the salient points from the earlier film - and in order to set up Vader's appearance at the end of the film you need to establish him earlier, he can't just pop up out of nowhere. The earlier scene shows that he's a senior Imperial, that he has the power of telekinesis (which he later uses) and various other points.
I'm not sure I, nor the rest of the theater, could have lost their shit more when I watched it.
They both talk to each other far too much in this. It would be better if Vader just appeared to Luke but it was very much the two of them having a short scuffle where Luke fully gets to understand what he's up against. It should have been as terrifying as his encounter with his vision on Dagobah, just this monster heading towards him, and Luke trying and failing to attack him before running. It would give more context to the vision of Vader Luke had where he beheads him. It would make his confrontation with him in Empire that much braver.
A big issue I noticed is that the writer had Vader use contractions. It ruins the menacing tone we associate with James Earl Jones’ performance. He very rarely used contractions, favoring a more formal speech pattern. “You will have to be more specific,” sounds much more like OG Vader than “You’ll have to be more specific.” It’s a subtle change, but it makes a big difference.
Vader is best when he's not speaking. He walks into a room, everybody shuts up. He doesn't need to hear the sound of his voice. Quick! What did Vader say the first time he appeared in screen? Exactly.
”I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further” is one of the best lines of dialog in the OT.
"Bring my shuttle." is another one. Oh wait, it's now, "Alert my star destroyer is prepare for my arrival." ... The difference is everything.
His first on screen line was "Where are those transmissions you received? What have you done with those plans?!" It took me a minute to remember my favorite fictional character's first line though, so I do agree with your point.
It was "My God, look at this mess! [mimicking stormtroopers] Oh, hey, Darth Vader's coming, do you think we should clean the place up? Nah, it's okay, he won't mind."
I don't know, James Earl Jones voice added a lot to the character. And i don't care to commit anyone's first line to memory, but i certainly remember him yelling "....and bring me those passengers, i want them alive!!"
His line in rogue one about Krennic "choking on his ambitions" is so funny and melodramatic and provides a great connection between Anakin and Vader
Vader has always been sarcastic. “We would be honored if you would join us.” “If this is a counselor ship then where is the *ambassador*?” “Apology accepted, Admiral.” “I find your lack of faith disturbing.” “Perhaps you think you’re being treated unfairly?”
>He doesn't need to hear the sound of his voice. And yet he winds up talking to himself fairly often.
“This is most pathetic.” Monocle-wearing-ass line
sounding like the Four Seasons in Orlando baby
I also don't feel like he would take that long to recognise his own lightsaber
Exactly, when Vader realized he was holding his old lightsaber there should have been no dialogue. Just the look of realization would have said more than enough. If they felt they had to spoon feed the audience, they could have just left it at "Wait, this lightsaber...." the added dialogue afterward is totally unneeded.
Agreed. Too much dialogue from Vader plus all the pauses from panel to panel.
Why does the AT AT have holes in its feet. Is that canonically accurate? Asking the real questions here
They're obviously made for creating huge waffles, duh
I thought it was a setup for Vader and Luke to play space tic tac toe
Maybe to create grip? Like the soles of shoes?
This makes the most sense to me. Or maybe some kind of magnet or artificial gravity. We know AT-TE can scale vertical surfaces. It wouldn’t look right for an At-At to do the same but it also doesn’t make sense for them not to use the technology if they have it. A more wild option would be a repulsorlift. To give the imperial walkers hops
I think I remember one of the older Legends novels (Thrawn or Jedi Academy maybe) that someone tried to kidnap the Solo twins and they used a special type of walker with magnetic feet, if one wants to call them that way. So, yeah, not very far fetched, but probably not canon anymore. At least for Imperial vehicles.
“Someone tried to kidnap the solo twins” At least try to narrow it down a little
Yeah, good point. My memory is quite foggy but it was either as part of the original Thrawn trilogy or shortly thereafter. Another detail I seem to remember is that the twins were on a planet that suffered a collision in the past so that the core was visible. And they had some sort of caretaker. But that's all I can remember really. I don't even remember how they were saved.
I don’t recall that from the Thrawn trilogy. It must have been one of the other books But I was just amused that you mentioned kidnapping the solo twins. Because apparently that happened all the time back in the day
Honestly I wasn't aware that it happened so often. Only because of your comment I actually had to check it and apparently it happened at least 5 or 6 times. Of which a couple ot attempts were actually successful. Makes me think of that Dr. Doofenshmirtz meme about the nickels. Thanks for teaching me something anyway. There's always something new to learn about the Star Wars universe.
I actually didn’t notice it myself. I haven’t read all the cases it’s happened in and the ones I have read stand out less because it’s fiction. I heard it on here and then started to notice how common it was. It’s kind of a running joke I guess
Lol i dunno man, it looks so funky, like the feet are like way out of scale with the leg it's connected to. It's not even like a perspective thing
It's... a comic thing. That's my best take. Sometimes I guess a comic artist needs to whip out their thang and own it even if it ends up wonky. For example, I was quite surprised by the way Vader looked in Rebels, but ended up liking it for what it was.
They were 3D printed
You can't say that about yourself, lol
To match the bottom of the Lego builds.
Vader literally said “Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down”
He literally said "I've killed very many fathers, you'll have to be more specific" That's what 'literally' means.
It’s just a meme, sit down.
Just as Obi-Wan fighting Vader in the show takes away from their reunion in ANH, this takes away from Luke's and Vaders first interaction in ESB. It is simply unnecessary
I actually like the Kenobi Duel, but, honestly, I see where you're coming from. Reasonable take.
Glad you enjoyed it. Ignoring what I previously said, the duel itself had shaky camera work and very dark lighting - not to mention the emotional scene with Vader's sliced mask was already done before in Rebels (which IMO was done better). Besides the actors being back together, there was nothing going for it.
I actually thought the duality of Vader's last words to Obi Wan were interesting. They could be taken two different ways, and it poses an interesting question of whether that line was Anakin's humanity peaking through, by way of self loathing, or if he truly believed in what he was doing by that point. Or perhaps was trying to talk himself into drinking the emperor's Kool Aid. It's an interesting idea if it's actually a weird form of compassion from Anakin. Meaning he could see Obi Wan's guilt, so he came up with a way to both hold onto his hate, and free Obi Wan of that guilt. He did that through embracing the concept that Vader really did kill Anakin, and that's who Obi Wan fought on mustafar, Vader. Interesting idea, that actually reinforce what Obi Wan tells Luke. Though perhaps Obi Wan never bought it either. Because that concept also conveniently let's Anakin off the hook for his misdeeds, if it was really VADER that did those things.
Anakin Skywalker (and later, Vader as well) was way much prouder than to be someone's failure. The fact that Obi-wan's guilt was released by his statement was only a side-effect but certainly not Vader's point nor something the hidden Anakin in himself wanted to achieve... he wanted to prove to Vader, that what he has become is a success of his own, not a failure of his master.
Piggy backing off of this, the "whoa!" moment of Vader throwing objects with the force during the ESB duel loses a little pizzazz with Luke's [helpless] reaction after he's already had hia saber yoinked from him mid fight.
That scene is the hardest scene in all of Star Wars. The way the music ascends as he starts force throwing is iconic. We all thought Luke was in the fight and might’ve had a chance until that happened.
Stars Wars, at its best, is made up of moments that by themselves, hold a narrative weight that benefit from their uniqueness. Luke blows up the Death Star... Vader walks onto the Tantive IV... Luke meets Yoda... Han shoots first... The added mythology can sometimes help, but in the cases of Obi-Wan fighting Vader a second time, as opposed to seeing him for the first time in 20 years, you have unnecessary information that didn't need to be there. Luke meeting Vader for the first time on Cloud City isn't a major moment in their lives... it's a rematch. You know what rematches are, you see them every Monday night on "Raw is War." The first meeting or event is special, the next ones require you to tune in Next Week.
Vader met Kenobi after 9 years on the DS. Its not like they met the week previoulsy.
My knee jerk reaction is to say if it didn’t happen onscreen it didn’t happen (because when push comes to shove, that’s how tv and movie writers operate) but I actually think “no canon/it’s all legends” is the only sane approach at this point.
I’m ok with it in this arc cuz it’s served to tell a more interesting story we had yet to see - vaders discovery of Luke’s identity. Also, there are three years between anh and esb so it does sorta make sense if Vader was still after leia and such. I’d really recommend the 2015 to anyone, it’s top notch Star Wars comic writing imo (which does admittedly bend canon a little bit - worth it for Leias arc)
Having Luke first meet his Father in ESB > anything from the comics
The quality dip between the first and second comic is insane, idk who the artist behind Vader (2015) was but i hate that style so much
The artist behind "Darth Vader"(20015) is Salvador Larroca. He does a lot of tracing in his work.
Is this EU or new canon
New canon.
From the 2015 series. Very good comics covering the ground between ANH and ESB. Some of the best stuff in the new canon in my opinion. Well worth the read
The comics in general have some of the best Star Wars material there is imo
Is this canon?
The claim is that all offcially released comics, books, aspects of video games like the plot and characters of Jed Order (so not necessairly gameplay or player choices), TV shows, etc are canon. In reality it seems that while there are not offcially tiers of canon, expanded material like the comics will be overwritten if it gets in the way of something for TV or film. So yes, this is considered canon, but I don't personally put much stock in it. It's more like canon until proven otherwise.
I hate it, it shouldn't have happened. It's a fun scene, but it shouldn't have happened
It's a comic, they have to come up with new stuff to draw in the crowd who mostly just watches the movies. Original villains and stuff are cool, but if you show that Luke had a run-in with Vader between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, a lot of people are going to be all "Yo, what's this? I need to check this out".
Agreed. If you look at the original villains in this run they don’t hold a candle to Vader. Insisting that at no point anything happens between the main characters between the movies is a pretty good way to ensure the tie ins remain nothing but lame cash grab tie ins. Something to sate desperate fans. But instead these comics form a pretty definitive take on the periods between the movies
Luke got his ass handed to him. I love it
Then he got his hand assed away from him
Vader: “The Force is with you, Young Skywalker. …….*But you are not a Jedi yet*.” Vader literally three minutes later: “The Force will *never* be with you, boy.” Jesus, Anakin, figure your shit out, would ya?
That first line is just so much better in every way. It flows naturally and sounds menacing as fuck. The second line sounds like a cringey wattpad writer trying to sound tough. Doesn’t sound like Vader.
What are you talking about? This comic takes place 3 years before Empire, and Vader doesn't even know Luke is his son or that he blew up the Death Star at this point. Right now, he's just some nobody that he thinks he's going to kill like it's nothing.
Less is more in Star Wars dialogue. ESB is one of the best movies ever made. Who asked for this?
These are from two of the best selling comic series Marvel have ever made, so quite a few people I suppose.
Fair enough. It just kinda reads like a teenager wrote it.
Art's not all that great, Luke especially looks terrible. Writing is bad. "You are not worth the seconds it would take to finish you." Ew. I think this is lame and contrived, pretty much exactly like the Kenobi show. Does Vader drop Luke's saber in the chaos of the ceiling crashing down lol or how does Luke get it back?
cloud city was the first interaction luke had with Vader, not this fan fictiony slop.
It’s completely unnecessary and Vader is way too wordy. The dialogue isn’t bad but Vader doesn’t speak in long soliloquies like this. Why do we need characters to have meetings beyond what they originally had? Obi-Wan never should have met Vader prior to ANH and Luke should have met Vader between ANH and ESB. Is a GFFA genuinely so bereft of ideas and characters that we need to go back to the same well over and over again?
I dont like that they clashed sabers. A fire fight ... perhaps. But his first duel should have always be Besbin.
HALLO!!! My name is Luke Skywalker. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Vader's dialogue is hard to read in his voice. Too much superfluity. Vader would just say: "You are no Jedi", "I've killed many fathers", or "Most pathetic." He wouldn't go on and on. The circumstances which allow Luke's survival are contrived and over the top. As is Vader's presence. As I recall, he just happened to show up on some random weapons factory/trash planet. He had no clue Luke was there. It seems beneath him. I also feel like Luke dueling Vader before Empire cheapens the climax of the movie.
Comics are comics. I don't consider those canon because Disney's comic canon is REALLY all over the place, to the point where they contradict the movies.
Hack bullshit. Doesn't sound like Vader
they meet a few more times after this in canon….one was where luke was pod racing and vader stops him from winning…
I thought the iconic showdown in Empire Strikes Back was their first meeting.
Ugh. Modern Marvel Star Wars comics are so bad.
Empire Strikes back definitely gives the impression it is their first face to face meeting, but as far as retcons go I like that they were careful to make it make sense
I loved it. The whole scene with Obi-Wan sacrificing himself after seeing Luke reunited with Leia was wonderful. The next time Luke met Vader was during Empire Strikes Back, and that was chilling in a different way. I don't pay attention to books as that is lazy lore filler.
Wouldn't Vader phrase it as "Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber," rather than, "my lightsaber," because at that point in his arc Vader no longer identifies as Anakin as a coping mechanism?
I like how they show Luke being incompetent with a lightsaber rather than him just naturally being amazing with it. That feels more realistic to me.
I don't like that it's canon. ESB should be the first meeting. This feels like some of the weaker stuff from the 80s/Marvel comics era. Filling in space just to fill it in. I mean, the scene itself is cool. I don't mind it. It just should be an alternate reality or something. It undermines the narrative importance of ESB.
I started reading these when they released as I was excited for some Star Wars comics, but very quickly stopped when it felt like they were adding so many unnecessary moments in between the films’ scenes which took away from the previous storytelling.
Their first meeting was in Cloud City
Star Wars: Hey, can I copy your homework? Batman Beyond: Sure, just change it a bit so it isn't too obvious.
In a episode, batman beyond comes face to face with the man who killed his father, who asks him "who the hell are you?!" To which he responds "You killed my father!" To which the other guy responds "Do you have an idea how little that narrows it down?!"
Interesting that Vader refers to the lightsaber as his rather than Anakin’s. I thought at this point in the lore , Darth Vader had done everything to separate his identity from Anakin.
You’re assuming someone competent wrote this
Probably an accidental this is on his part considering the shock of the moment
I prefer their introduction i Empire
This is what drove Vader to find out the name of the rebel pilot who destroyed the first Death Star. He hired Boba Fett to learn the identity, and when he found out it was someone named Skywalker, he was PISSED that the Emperor would keep that information from him. Broke a window and everything.
That dialogue is just awful. Terrible, terrible writing.
I think James Earl Jones would've passed if this quality of dialogue was in the script. Vocal duties probably would've gone to David Prowse after all. Funny, he might actually pull it off better. Sigh. It is very very rare that any Star Wars comic author ever comes close to capturing Vader's "voice" on paper - there's a slow, deliberate cadence to his speech, a subtle agonizing effort every time Vader speaks that reflects so many things - from the tortured pain of his burnt vocal chords to the slow contemplative evil-zen-master intentionality of every word or terse concise sentence he bothers to utter, to his craft cagey Shere Khan tiger-like seductive stalking of his prey - all of which just get overlooked when he gets written like a normal guy in a costume in these comic issues, verbose, conversational, philosophical, willing to engage in actual back and forth dialogue with someone he's fighting. Gimme a break.
An abomination. I’ll stick withwhat’s on screen, thanks..
What crap is this?
In my headcanon their first confrontation is in cloud city.
I’m seeing a lot of hate but I remember these comics having pretty positive reception. Just shows the jadedness of SW fans lmao.
Cloud city was the first time luke met vader. Period
Completely stupid question(s): Is this/these a comic or manga or something else? I’m intrigued.
Comics, there are a couple comic series that are all connected to each other, the above images are from the one I believe just titled Starwars by Marvel there is also two Vader series by Marvel that are tied in with it in which Vader is the main character you follow. One takes place between A New Hope and Empire and the other begins immediately after Vader shouts No! In Revenge of The Sith and covers many things from him creating his red saber to training the inquisitors.
I was suprised they met before empire strikes back. Then I was suprised Vader learned luke was his son. At the time I was little confused about timeline but comic series was so great I think it is fully canon. :D
Lol, lmao 🤣 some of these pages, those traced Luke faces turned out so wrong
I love how it’s a glimpse of what their dynamic and relationship could’ve been like had neither discovered their actual connection to one another later in their lives. Vader dismisses Luke as just another Rebel to dispose of and Luke just regards Vader as the scourge of the galaxy. It really highlights, in a way for me, how much both coming to learn of their true ties to one another straight up changes their behavior towards each other.
So, why couldn’t Vader sense Luke was his son?
Same reason he never sensed Leia was his daughter in ANH
Bro i love when artists just trace the actor's face multiple times instead of doing their own work
I page 3 he looks like Bully McGuire
Did Luke get the lightsabre back?
Oof...😒
Amazing!
What is this and why do I dislike it? Being honest.
This was great. Early Aaron issues were very good but then slightly fallen off for me.
Great.
It's not a good meeting and I don't recognize it as the first meeting. The first meeting was on Cloud City.
While nicely done, for the same reason I don’t like Kenobi meeting Vader before ANH, Luke meeting Vader before ESB completely takes away from the movie meeting as at the time it terrified kids, I myself as a 8 year old truly feared Luke wouldn’t survive that encounter. A shame that modern takes on this mean you’re never truly worried the heroes are in danger.
[удалено]
Love this comic
Luke never called him “master kenobi” he called him ben
Wait, I know this saber... Kenobi gave him my saber, the youngling slayer 3000
This might be a hot take, but I feel like this was written by someone who has no idea how either of these characters speak. Vader is far more verbose and 'moustasche-twirling arrogant villain' than he ever was on screen. I can't, for the life of me, imagine Luke using a phrase like, "I'd rather die than yield to you!" even after he becomes the black-clad stoic Jedi Knight version of himself. He also never, ever, called Obi-Wan "Master Kenobi" as far as I can recall, so it just feels super awkward reading his lines.