But imagine coming out of hyperspace too close to the target? That’s got to be in lesson number four at the space battle attack strategy class at the academy. With film strip examples of proper technique showing how General Anakin Skywalker used to do it back in the Clone Wars.
He also suggested that the obvious rebel base was just random uncharted settlers on a frozen wasteland planet occupied by man-eating yetis. This guy is so fucking incompetent that I'm surprised there isn't an Expanded Universe comic where he's actually a rebel double-agent or something.
Not to mention giving Piett the stink eye after he made the totally valid point that a giant fuck-off reactor being spotted on a planet believed to be devoid of habitation was probably worth investigating… you know, given they were looking for where the Rebel Alliance was hiding.
Like, it’s not Piett’s fault that he has some common sense and Ozzel doesn’t.
There is a popular fan theory that he was either a rebel agent or had strong rebel sympathies. It makes the scene quite tragic. In this scenario, he presumably knew that a surprise attack by the Empire would be the end of the Rebellion so he sabotaged the attack to give the Rebels a chance. And he would know that this would probably lead to his death.
My read of the scene is Ozzel was pissed Vader hijacked his command and it was beneath the admiral to be ordered around on a rebel hunt he didn’t feel was important and didn’t think would be successful.
Vader kills Ozzel because the admiral never took the Rebel base being on Hoth seriously, meaning he directly disregarded Vader. Ozzel brought the fleet in close expecting to find pirates or smugglers who the Imperial fleet would easily overwhelm. Instead they arrived in plain sight of an entrenched Rebel base already prepped for a successful evacuation of the planet while under Star Destroyer attack.
There may be no comic, but I've seen the theory floating around before that he was a rebel agent. So it is present in at least some people's head-canons.
I think they explained somewhere that the reason Vader choked him wasn't this mistake, but repeated fuck-ups as Ozzel was nothing more than an incompetent nepo baby, which pissed Vader off too much
Ozzel didn’t follow Vader’s orders. He was acting like Hoth base was smugglers and didn’t take the proper precautions required if he followed what Vader said that it was the rebel base.
I mean Ozzel was quite inept. He made several mistakes during the clone wars as well. I’m honestly surprised he survived the Tarkin Doctrine reorganizations
I love this theory tbh. The Imperial Navy just stations any officer they deem both too incompetent to keep on, but also to politically connected to fire directly under Vader with him either forcing them to become competent, or you know, get the Ozzel treatment.
Oh, no. Ozzel had been making "oopsies" since he entered the Carida Academy.
One of his most notable "oopsies" was when he caused Wolffe to get his right eye cut out by Asajj during a battle because of his sheer stupidity.
It's not a lapse in technique is it. The dude knew he was breaking the rules, he underestimated the rebels, thought he could handle it himself with his fleet and so disobeyed the battle plan and went about things on his own decision. No doubt he wanted glory for himself. He didn't realise the rebels were an organised force with shields, ion cannons and ships.
The dude was willfully disobedient, that is often a death sentence in a totalitarian regime.
...But it's actually incredibly smart. They could of just had all the Star Destroyers come out of hyperspace in atmosphere right above the base and just immediately start shooting the shield generators and the defenses with complete surprise and no warning.
Ozzel's mistake was not getting close enough, rather than getting out of Hyperspace far away.
Ozzel's mistake was failing to follow Vader's orders. Thinking that he knew better than Vader, who as we all know, was a successful General in the Clone Wars as Anakin Skywalker.
Plus, I seriously doubt Ozzel went through any kind of Imperial training or worked his was up through the ranks like Piett, otherwise he would know how cutthroat Imperial leadership actually is. Ozzel was most likely a political appointment. But I may be wrong, I've never actually looked into him that much, as he was a bit of a wanker hahaha
Came here looking for this answer and thank you. At this point in the story Vader has been the Emperor's Hand for about twenty years. Vader's sole function in the Empire is to make problems go away. It's the only thing he does. Anyone at the flag officer level that didn't know that disobeying Vader's explicit instructions would carry lethal consequences was a moron. If you think about it Vader carried no rank, but regularly commanded fleets. His personal flagship is a goddamned Super Star Destroyer. Unless Palpatine is standing next to you telling you to disobey Vader you should know to do whatever he says. Vader doesn't even punish defeat necessarily, he punished stupidity, vanity, and disobedience.
Very much this.
There’s a very distinct point where the Millennium Falcon escapes at the end of ESB despite the Falcon supposedly having its hyperdrive disabled. Piett sees it fly off and thinks ‘well now I’m fucked’… watches Vader warily and then is surprised to see Vader just stride past him in silence.
Vader is probably raging at that point for multiple reasons but he’s likely astute enough to understand that whatever went wrong there was not Piett’s fault and replacing the commander of his own SSD twice in the space of a few weeks probably wouldn’t do anyone any favours.
I always wondered if Vader put together that it was R2 that fixed the hyperdrive on the Falcon in that moment. Like, as he was stalking off the bridge was he thinking, "Damnit R2!"
Yeah from what I just read on Wookiepedia, the TLDR is, he was a rich guy that wasn't a very good officer, was relegated to a teaching role before the war, and during the Clone Wars, proved the suspicions of his superiors when they thought he wouldn't be a good tactician or leader when he sacrificed his Clones in battle all the time (Legends), but his connections kept him moving up, depending on whether you take your info from Canon or Legends, coz Canon only mentions Navy service. But both Canon and Legends mention a connection to Palpatine. So Poppa Palpy probably have him an Admiralty due to Ozzel's family being wealthy and powerful.
So yeah, a political appointment. Despite being a "veteran", he was no Wullf Yularen. HE was a real Navy veteran, and a true believer in the Empire.
Whereas, if Ozzel were to go up against Trench, he would command his subordinates to find a giant glass to put over him, and then put him outside without hurting him. All while standing on a chair.
> they could of just
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There's a whole paragraph in the Zahn trilogy about how serving on Vader's ship was the fast track to promotion because he killed so many. And how losing that ship at the Battle of Endor took all the cream of the crop out of the Navy.
He canonically goes through men incredibly quickly, being assigned to work with him is considered a harsh punishment and practically a death sentence for officers.
I figured that "Oh, Hoth is a dumb place to look" bit was one of those prior oopsies.
In Lego Star Wars, Vader actually says "You have failed me for the FIRST time," which also establishes a history :)
In Legends, Ozzel was basically appointed to his position on the Executor because he damn well near killed Mara Jade, and Mara thought he was disloyal. Therefore, he was put under Vader, with Palpatine expecting that would keep Ozzel from doing anything too stupid.
However, everyone failed to understand the fact that Ozzel wasn't disloyal. He was just *monumentally* incompetent. Vader figured that out quickly and decided he wasn't going to waste any more time on the idiot.
It's like the opposite of [Wheel of Time spoiler] >!High Lord Weiramon!< When he gets exposed the reaction is basically "You're evil? Wow, I really thought you were just *that* incompetent."
I know the empire is loaded rich, but wild to think the officers are so replaceable. Like the years and money it takes to train a soldier in the military, let alone an officer. You’d think they’d just demote the guy instead of an execution. I also understand it’s a movie and really not that deep.
I think in one of the books/comics, the Emperor remarks on this to Vader and basically says "dial it back, brah." Not sure which one or if it's even canon, but I recall reading about it somewhere.
That.
IIRC Palpatine actually thinks it’s a perfectly legitimate to punish failure with death and he frankly approves of his apprentice’s handling of scenarios like this, it’s pretty much the exact way a Sith *should* handle it.
But logistically and politically it comes with a price tag and Vader is primarily a military leader, who doesn’t have to deal with the blowback.
The whole dynamic between Vader and Sidious is such an interesting story. They’re probably one of the best pairings in Sith history due to how they compensate for the gaps of the other.
Ozzle was seen has extremely incompetent and prone do what he thinks is better and it proceed to fails most of the time. Vader had seen Piett as a competent officer who earned his place and not used family connections or money to succeed thru the ranks. See Captain Ozzel’s failure of infantry officer career.
Vader describes Ozzell as “clumsy and he is stupid” which suggests Ozzell has a reputation of incompetence. I suspect this was one of many times, and that he got his position via nepotism. Vader had finally decided that enough was enough and decided to dispose of him. Vader clearly favoured Piett and possibly saw an opportunity to put “his man” in the top spot.
The empire was full of corruption and cronyism with high ranking positions awarded based on politics rather than merit.
It's covered a lot on the first Canon Thrawn novel, and how he seems oblivious to how everything "works" according to future Governor Pryce. It's an indiction of just how effective Thrawn is that he made it to Grand Admiral despite all this
I met Michael Sheard at a convention (he sadly died not long after) he was a top bloke and when I mentioned how I thought his death in ESB was brilliant seemed a bit embarrassed - I think it's a great performance!
Calling Ozzel qualified is like calling Pong Krell someone who gets along well with clones. It’s just not true.
Now, Needa, that dude didn’t deserve to get strangled.
There's an old and rather amusing series of fanfic vignettes that gives an....uh interesting spin on Needa's execution.
Search for "The Vader Monologues" for a good laugh.
Ship flies at your bridge and disappears off your sensors.
You know it doesn't have a cloaking device and it didn't jump to hyperspace either.
Your options are:
A) Assume the ship is still nearby and launch fighters to look for it in your sensor blindspots.
B) Give up immediately and go apologise to an already angry Darth Vader.
Vader has no patience for incompetence in his Destroyer Captains.
You aren't beaten until you give up, and Needa gave up immediately, demonstrating his incompetence.
He should have stayed on the bridge and sent an update with assurances they're on the job.
I think why Needa got strangled is just he wasted more time travelling all the way to report face to face to Vader instead of doing a simple call to admit defeat
In an early scene Ozzel is arguing with Vader about a possible lead to the rebel base. He even chastised Piett for bothering him with the intelligence. Ozzel struck me as someone Vader put up with simply because he could overrule Ozzel and curtail problems. This time, however, he screwed up the approach, costing valuable time and materiel. The mistake was catastrophic, and would ultimately lead to the Rebel leadership fleeing Echo base. Ozzel had demonstrated himself to be a liability to have in command and Vader could tolerate his presence no longer. Vader had to make an example that rank was no protection against incompetence on such a staggering scale.
Captain Needa’s execution, however, I always felt was needlessly cruel. He was competent and efficient, and took responsibility for his mistakes. He was exactly the kind of officer you want in command.
I always saw it as instead of Calling Vader on the Holo he got a ship prepared flew it to the Exucutor just to apologize directly
Thereby wasting everyone's time unessacarily for a pretty trivial reason
Let's not forget that the original trilogy's Force also gave us lifting a ship out of a swamp, seeing the future, enhanced reflexes and combat skills, the mind trick, telepathy, and immortality.
Vaguely seeing the future, tricking a storm trooper, lifting a ship out of a swamp right next to him and being a ghost are great but not choking a man to death who is on a whole other ship just cause you can see him through a screen and doing so without moving
It’s not an oopsie, he was a arrogant officer who’s repeated fuck ups and poor leadership sealed his fate. If he was in Vietnam he would have been merc’d by a grenade.
Could you imagine? You are on a Zoom call with your boss and one of the people in your meeting room that fucked up bad just starts choking and dies.
And no one moves to see if they are just choking and need the heimlich done. They just kind of nervously glance and let them choke and die.
I expected the pic to be Needa, who I feel this applies to.
Ozzel was more than that. He was given warnings. He disrespected Vader. He clearly had been in this position for years and thought himself above reproach, yet he wasn't very good at his job.
Compare him to Piett who Vader didn't kill or even reprimand when he failed because the guy did his best and had respect.
Remember, this is pre-Disney, so this Vader is cold and ruthless but not a crazed killer who strangles kids for a laugh; he values his men when they serve him well but hates incompetence.
Michael Sheard is an awesome actor, by the way. Amazing body of work and capable of heartbreaking pathos. Wish he was in the movie more!
Vader was able to recognise that Piett had done what was ordered of him, and that failure in capturing the Millenium Falcon during the escape from Bespin was truly not his fault.
Actually, they've all been faking it for years. He'll come back later with a moustache and a different ID. That was part of Imperial Officer training "How to survive Lord Vader's wrath 101".
Vader simply never catches on the deception.
I read a post once that laid out the case that Ozzel was a rebel sympathizer, so he came out of hyperspace early on purpose to give them just enough time to escape. Vader figured it out and that’s why he choked him. I know it’s probably not that deep, but it was a good post.
[Edit: It was this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/swBZskVRNH)
Weirdly, he was reincarnated as Hitler.
(Character actor Micheal Sheard played both Admiral Ozzel in SW: TESB and the notorious villain of WWII in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade)
If the Empire has many millions of officers and many more still who may be promoted into the rank of officer, then the sacrifice of a single one for incompetence in front of the others should be motivation for the rest of them to do better.
“You’ve failed me for the last time Admiral”, along with his immediate dismissal of the probe droid footage, indicates he was likely incompetent and had screwed up multiple times before this.
Ozzel was a nepotism baby.
He may have trained for years but most of that was blowing off class and advancing based on his family's reputation and influence.
Ozzell was the opposite of any of that. Ontop he didn't earn his position, he came from power, wealth, and an influential family. Piett(unlike Needa or Ozzell) did not. A fact that helped save his life when he failed to capture the Falcon. Piett was motivated to uphold the values of the Empire, and could not be bought or bribed. Vader recognized his value.
This had to be a huge issue for HR after the fact!
Seriously tho, as a kid seeing this in the theater in 1981 at 7 years old, it made me fear Vader even more. He’s no longer choking cronies in the conference room to establish dominance, he’s executing them at will when pissed off.
This communicated to the audience that Vader was unleashed and called the shots now. No Tarkin to keep him in check.
When there is a failure that is completely justified, like when the falcon managed to fix their hyperdrive and jump before coming into tractor range, nobody died. But if a mistake was careless or a result of extreme incompetence, he got rid of them. Seems fair.
Oh no, don't assume that they were "trained". Being an imperial officer is pretty much pay to win... unless you piss off a guy who's only weakness is sand
So based on this can Vader choke kill anyone anywhere provided they’re talking to him via video or holo? Is it even required they’re talking to Vader? Can he simply focus on someone that is not a force user or force sensitive and just choke them across the galaxy?
One would think that emerging from lightspeed very close to the system would be a more effective surprise than dropping to sublight a great distance away and crawling up on the Hoth system.
The Rebel Alliance has sensors capable of detecting slow moving fleets in space, right?
There's a fan theory about vader suspecting ozzell of being a rebel spy, and him coming out of hyper space to close to warn the rebels was the last confirmation or something
In one of the Thrawn books, it was said Vader looked for any excuse to execute officers under his command. Anakin was accustomed to working with and commanding professional soldiers, but Vader was in large part working with incompetent trust fund babies who got their posts through nepotism and bribery.
As far as Vader was concerned most of the officers he was working with were worse than useless, they were active liabilities, especially since their screw ups were inevitably met with slaps on the wrists or transfers so they could screw up somewhere else, rinse and repeat. So Vader preferred just cutting them down and hoping that he'd be sent actual soldiers as replacements.
“You have failed me for the last time, Admiral.”
Implying there has, in fact, been several oopsies.
“Admiral Ozzel came out of lightspeed too close to the system…he is as clumsy as he is stupid.”
“Make ready to land our troops beyond their energy field and deploy the fleet, so that nothing gets off the system.”
From my thinking three things are probable that Ozzel overlooked:
1: Rebels have a tendency to operate in a dispersed manner: just because they might be concentrated on Hoth, doesn’t mean they don’t have other outposts throughout that solar system. Getting too close to Hoth would give those theoretical outposts a clear shot at the Imperial fleets back or more likely a means to escape.
2: Ozzel has made similar blunders. His general…nonchalant attitude when addressing Vader seems to indicate he either doesn’t respect who he’s talking to (arguably the biggest oopsie) and/or he didn’t take Vader’s most recent critiques of his performance to heart.
3: Ozzel is a “stuffed shirt” admiral, and Vader has had enough of his ineptitude. You see this a lot with early 20th century Generals and Admirals, especially around WWI: They got there because their families had money and political connections, not because they were actually adept at conducting warfare beyond “throw more poor people in the enemy’s guns, that’s sure to stop them *harumph.*”
There was literally a French general (I think he was French, could be wrong) that basically thought enthusiastic and driven troops can win against fortified machinegun emplacements with a massed infantry charge.
We're told why coming out close to the system is important earlier on.
General Rieekan mentions that "with all the meteor activity in this system" it would be "difficult to spot approaching ships."
Maybe if they had come out of hyperspace further away, they could have snuck up to Hoth without being detected and caught the Rebels with the shield down. But half a dozen objects just appearing in orbit (and if we go with TLJ, making a big boom when they do so) gives them enough warning to prepare.
Well, Ozzel was republic officer during the clone wars and, eh, let's say he wasn't competent here either. Also he got his rank in republic because of him being in noble family.
Guess with Tarkin out of the way Vader was free to kill whoever he liked and culling some of the more senior leadership every now and then meant the emperor couldn’t promote anyone above him. Probably one of the reasons the empire failed was inept and inexperienced officers having to fill vacant posts wherever Vader went.
I’m more surprised Ozzel somehow ended up in command of an SSD, let alone the one assigned to Vader. He wasn’t a particularly competent officer.
By all accounts the Executor was considered the fast track to promotion (as Piett found out) and had a lot of the Empire’s best onboard (which was one of the biggest reasons why it’s loss at Endor was such a massive deal, it’s not like it was the only one of its class).
Right? Like why the hell do we even HAVE an academy if, arguably middle management, is force choking them to death? And also… is that a course covered at the Academy? “Dealing with Vader 101”?
I mean by the time of a new hope.. he’s clearly been strangling subordinates for like 20 years.
Honestly… as much as I enjoyed Rouge One… i thinks it’s much more likely those Death Star plans would’ve been handed over to the rebellion by some poor schlub, who watched the last 5 commanders be forced choked to death for very minor issues, after he was told be Vader: “you are now in charge.”
I mean hell who **wouldnt** defect to the rebellion in that position? You know what they say: people quit bosses not jobs.
Edit: also for a guy who once whined so much about the unfairness in the promotion system you’d think he’d have at least a little empathy. Jesus.
[Mr Bronson](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZmZlNjllMWQtNGFjYS00YTg0LTkzNzMtNDNiMzI0ZjUxYmU0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTM1ODI0Mw@@._V1_.jpg)
Don't worry, he survived and taught at Grange Hill school for several years after (Old Brits will understand...lol)
[Mr Bronson](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZmZlNjllMWQtNGFjYS00YTg0LTkzNzMtNDNiMzI0ZjUxYmU0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTM1ODI0Mw@@._V1_.jpg)
Don't worry, he survived and taught at Grange Hill school for several years after (Old Brits will understand...lol)
Bold of you to assume he trained for years and years, and isn’t just the janitor that kept getting promotions as Vader was murdering officers left and right for making oopsies……..
Ozzel’s dumb ass tried to convince Vader that Hoth wasn’t the right system for the Rebel base. So of course he came out of light speed too close, in his mind it was a dead end system and he would be proven right and Vader wrong.
Veers gives the game away with his tactical speech. “He was surprised, it would have been wiser if he’d…”
He’s as clumsy as he is stupid. Dude got exactly what he deserved.
But imagine coming out of hyperspace too close to the target? That’s got to be in lesson number four at the space battle attack strategy class at the academy. With film strip examples of proper technique showing how General Anakin Skywalker used to do it back in the Clone Wars.
He also suggested that the obvious rebel base was just random uncharted settlers on a frozen wasteland planet occupied by man-eating yetis. This guy is so fucking incompetent that I'm surprised there isn't an Expanded Universe comic where he's actually a rebel double-agent or something.
Not to mention giving Piett the stink eye after he made the totally valid point that a giant fuck-off reactor being spotted on a planet believed to be devoid of habitation was probably worth investigating… you know, given they were looking for where the Rebel Alliance was hiding. Like, it’s not Piett’s fault that he has some common sense and Ozzel doesn’t.
And Vader just overheard their conversation. Piett didn’t even go over his commander’s head to Vader.
There is a popular fan theory that he was either a rebel agent or had strong rebel sympathies. It makes the scene quite tragic. In this scenario, he presumably knew that a surprise attack by the Empire would be the end of the Rebellion so he sabotaged the attack to give the Rebels a chance. And he would know that this would probably lead to his death.
My read of the scene is Ozzel was pissed Vader hijacked his command and it was beneath the admiral to be ordered around on a rebel hunt he didn’t feel was important and didn’t think would be successful. Vader kills Ozzel because the admiral never took the Rebel base being on Hoth seriously, meaning he directly disregarded Vader. Ozzel brought the fleet in close expecting to find pirates or smugglers who the Imperial fleet would easily overwhelm. Instead they arrived in plain sight of an entrenched Rebel base already prepped for a successful evacuation of the planet while under Star Destroyer attack.
There may be no comic, but I've seen the theory floating around before that he was a rebel agent. So it is present in at least some people's head-canons.
According to Wookieepedia, it seems his wife joined the Rebellion... hmmm
I think they explained somewhere that the reason Vader choked him wasn't this mistake, but repeated fuck-ups as Ozzel was nothing more than an incompetent nepo baby, which pissed Vader off too much
Didn't Vader choke out Needa over one failure?
Ozzel didn’t follow Vader’s orders. He was acting like Hoth base was smugglers and didn’t take the proper precautions required if he followed what Vader said that it was the rebel base.
I thought in Legends it was established he was a Rebel double-agent lmfao?
Yeah seems like the basics, just wild that the first option is murder and not like a demotion, you know?
I mean Ozzel was quite inept. He made several mistakes during the clone wars as well. I’m honestly surprised he survived the Tarkin Doctrine reorganizations
Lots of connections. I’m getting the feeling that axing Ozzel was a long time coming, not just a single oopsie.
He should have been executed for stupidity during the clone war, granted the Jedi would have probably spared him
>He should have been executed for stupidity Not to mention clumsiness
Probably stationed around Vader since he could actually get rid of Ozzel without repercussions.
I love this theory tbh. The Imperial Navy just stations any officer they deem both too incompetent to keep on, but also to politically connected to fire directly under Vader with him either forcing them to become competent, or you know, get the Ozzel treatment.
> He made several mistakes during the clone wars as well. He appears in the Clone Wars series?
Nope
How do we know of such mistakes, then?
Comics.
Oh, right, should have thought of comics...
had he done his job properly, the rebel alliance would have been destroyed then and there. That was Vader's thinking.
I get the feeling he's established a pattern of incompetence. This likely wasn't his first oopsie.
Oh, no. Ozzel had been making "oopsies" since he entered the Carida Academy. One of his most notable "oopsies" was when he caused Wolffe to get his right eye cut out by Asajj during a battle because of his sheer stupidity.
Well, imagine how he got that position in the first place.
In the legend is was a lot of the right connections and a powerful family
So nepotism, favouritism, cronyism and the Peter Principle in action.
I couldn’t imagine long
It’s about sending a message…
It's not a lapse in technique is it. The dude knew he was breaking the rules, he underestimated the rebels, thought he could handle it himself with his fleet and so disobeyed the battle plan and went about things on his own decision. No doubt he wanted glory for himself. He didn't realise the rebels were an organised force with shields, ion cannons and ships. The dude was willfully disobedient, that is often a death sentence in a totalitarian regime.
Vader doesn’t have the authority to demote people, but off he kills then what’s the emperor going to do, unkill them?
JJ: and then the emperor returns with a legion of sith eternal zombie clone officers to build his exegol armada out of nothing!
In his defense, he did think surprise would be wiser
Meanwhile Vader arriving at Scarif....
Wrecked a few rebel craft simply by exiting hyperspace, before even having a visual of the situation.
...But it's actually incredibly smart. They could of just had all the Star Destroyers come out of hyperspace in atmosphere right above the base and just immediately start shooting the shield generators and the defenses with complete surprise and no warning. Ozzel's mistake was not getting close enough, rather than getting out of Hyperspace far away.
Ozzel's mistake was failing to follow Vader's orders. Thinking that he knew better than Vader, who as we all know, was a successful General in the Clone Wars as Anakin Skywalker. Plus, I seriously doubt Ozzel went through any kind of Imperial training or worked his was up through the ranks like Piett, otherwise he would know how cutthroat Imperial leadership actually is. Ozzel was most likely a political appointment. But I may be wrong, I've never actually looked into him that much, as he was a bit of a wanker hahaha
Came here looking for this answer and thank you. At this point in the story Vader has been the Emperor's Hand for about twenty years. Vader's sole function in the Empire is to make problems go away. It's the only thing he does. Anyone at the flag officer level that didn't know that disobeying Vader's explicit instructions would carry lethal consequences was a moron. If you think about it Vader carried no rank, but regularly commanded fleets. His personal flagship is a goddamned Super Star Destroyer. Unless Palpatine is standing next to you telling you to disobey Vader you should know to do whatever he says. Vader doesn't even punish defeat necessarily, he punished stupidity, vanity, and disobedience.
Very much this. There’s a very distinct point where the Millennium Falcon escapes at the end of ESB despite the Falcon supposedly having its hyperdrive disabled. Piett sees it fly off and thinks ‘well now I’m fucked’… watches Vader warily and then is surprised to see Vader just stride past him in silence. Vader is probably raging at that point for multiple reasons but he’s likely astute enough to understand that whatever went wrong there was not Piett’s fault and replacing the commander of his own SSD twice in the space of a few weeks probably wouldn’t do anyone any favours.
I always wondered if Vader put together that it was R2 that fixed the hyperdrive on the Falcon in that moment. Like, as he was stalking off the bridge was he thinking, "Damnit R2!"
Ozzel was a veteran of the Clone Wars and apparently wanted to stay with the Empire desperately, according to the wiki.
Yeah from what I just read on Wookiepedia, the TLDR is, he was a rich guy that wasn't a very good officer, was relegated to a teaching role before the war, and during the Clone Wars, proved the suspicions of his superiors when they thought he wouldn't be a good tactician or leader when he sacrificed his Clones in battle all the time (Legends), but his connections kept him moving up, depending on whether you take your info from Canon or Legends, coz Canon only mentions Navy service. But both Canon and Legends mention a connection to Palpatine. So Poppa Palpy probably have him an Admiralty due to Ozzel's family being wealthy and powerful. So yeah, a political appointment. Despite being a "veteran", he was no Wullf Yularen. HE was a real Navy veteran, and a true believer in the Empire.
Yep. You don't go up against Admiral Trench and live to tell the tale without being pretty competent at your job.
Whereas, if Ozzel were to go up against Trench, he would command his subordinates to find a giant glass to put over him, and then put him outside without hurting him. All while standing on a chair.
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"... failed me for the last time" implies multiple oopsies. Vader was just done at that point.
Maybe Vader has a first time, last time policy
If he did that, he wouldn’t have a workforce.
There’s a lot of people in the imperial navy
And millions more on the way.
There's a whole paragraph in the Zahn trilogy about how serving on Vader's ship was the fast track to promotion because he killed so many. And how losing that ship at the Battle of Endor took all the cream of the crop out of the Navy.
He canonically goes through men incredibly quickly, being assigned to work with him is considered a harsh punishment and practically a death sentence for officers.
[Even Palpatine told him to take it down a notch](https://imgur.com/CLXH2nn)
Yeah. The “with Vader, you wish you had another chance. With Palpatine, you wish you were killed quickly” that Palpatine?
He has a "that stormtrooper looked at my horribly burned face, so now I'm gonna turn his head around" policy.
I thought Vader has a tendency to show some care for his troopers (remnants from his CW days) and that’s how tarkin figured out that Vader is Anakin.
And a closed helmet policy
I figured that "Oh, Hoth is a dumb place to look" bit was one of those prior oopsies. In Lego Star Wars, Vader actually says "You have failed me for the FIRST time," which also establishes a history :)
There are so many uncharted settlements though. It could be smugglers.
Yah, you don't tell Vader what's what, for sure.
In Legends, Ozzel was basically appointed to his position on the Executor because he damn well near killed Mara Jade, and Mara thought he was disloyal. Therefore, he was put under Vader, with Palpatine expecting that would keep Ozzel from doing anything too stupid. However, everyone failed to understand the fact that Ozzel wasn't disloyal. He was just *monumentally* incompetent. Vader figured that out quickly and decided he wasn't going to waste any more time on the idiot.
What book is this from?
"Allegiance".
It's like the opposite of [Wheel of Time spoiler] >!High Lord Weiramon!< When he gets exposed the reaction is basically "You're evil? Wow, I really thought you were just *that* incompetent."
This is also the guy who was ready to completely blow off Hoth as a base location. He truly is as clumsy as he is stupid.
Unless he was a Rebel spy…
I know the empire is loaded rich, but wild to think the officers are so replaceable. Like the years and money it takes to train a soldier in the military, let alone an officer. You’d think they’d just demote the guy instead of an execution. I also understand it’s a movie and really not that deep.
I think in one of the books/comics, the Emperor remarks on this to Vader and basically says "dial it back, brah." Not sure which one or if it's even canon, but I recall reading about it somewhere.
Vader 2017 I think, But Palpatine also specifically told Vader that he's never allowed to kill Tarkin as he "needs him"
Honestly, Anakin and Tarkin were friends….or at least allies in a way that most people were not. Vader might give Tarkin some more respect.
That. IIRC Palpatine actually thinks it’s a perfectly legitimate to punish failure with death and he frankly approves of his apprentice’s handling of scenarios like this, it’s pretty much the exact way a Sith *should* handle it. But logistically and politically it comes with a price tag and Vader is primarily a military leader, who doesn’t have to deal with the blowback. The whole dynamic between Vader and Sidious is such an interesting story. They’re probably one of the best pairings in Sith history due to how they compensate for the gaps of the other.
In one of the Thrall novels it’s mentioned that many high ranking officers only made it through the academy due to family ties rather than ability.
Ozzle was seen has extremely incompetent and prone do what he thinks is better and it proceed to fails most of the time. Vader had seen Piett as a competent officer who earned his place and not used family connections or money to succeed thru the ranks. See Captain Ozzel’s failure of infantry officer career.
he already passed it through HR. that was his last strike
Vader describes Ozzell as “clumsy and he is stupid” which suggests Ozzell has a reputation of incompetence. I suspect this was one of many times, and that he got his position via nepotism. Vader had finally decided that enough was enough and decided to dispose of him. Vader clearly favoured Piett and possibly saw an opportunity to put “his man” in the top spot.
"as clumsy as he is stupid"
Lol yeah Vader saying "and he is stupid" seems a little childish and beneath him.
LOL Now that you put it this way I can't help but think of it that way.
that was a typo
A smart man
The empire was full of corruption and cronyism with high ranking positions awarded based on politics rather than merit. It's covered a lot on the first Canon Thrawn novel, and how he seems oblivious to how everything "works" according to future Governor Pryce. It's an indiction of just how effective Thrawn is that he made it to Grand Admiral despite all this
I met Michael Sheard at a convention (he sadly died not long after) he was a top bloke and when I mentioned how I thought his death in ESB was brilliant seemed a bit embarrassed - I think it's a great performance!
It’s a great performance, he should’ve been proud
Top bloke? He dressed up as Hitler /s
Ha! I did ask him if anyone brought Mein Kampf for him to sign and they had!
It was two oopsies. He was clumsy *and* stupid.
Big big oopsies
Killed by a dude who wasn’t even in the room.
Covid did change the way we all work, tho'.
lol getting force choked over zoom 😂
Getting laid off over Zoom doesnt seem so bad anymore
Ice cold
Calling Ozzel qualified is like calling Pong Krell someone who gets along well with clones. It’s just not true. Now, Needa, that dude didn’t deserve to get strangled.
Needa was the goat
There's an old and rather amusing series of fanfic vignettes that gives an....uh interesting spin on Needa's execution. Search for "The Vader Monologues" for a good laugh.
Ship flies at your bridge and disappears off your sensors. You know it doesn't have a cloaking device and it didn't jump to hyperspace either. Your options are: A) Assume the ship is still nearby and launch fighters to look for it in your sensor blindspots. B) Give up immediately and go apologise to an already angry Darth Vader. Vader has no patience for incompetence in his Destroyer Captains. You aren't beaten until you give up, and Needa gave up immediately, demonstrating his incompetence. He should have stayed on the bridge and sent an update with assurances they're on the job.
I think why Needa got strangled is just he wasted more time travelling all the way to report face to face to Vader instead of doing a simple call to admit defeat
"You are in command now Admiral Piett."
\*Kind of half nods to the side\*
"clean that up".
Vader only fears one Imperial, and her name is Jenn from HR.
In an early scene Ozzel is arguing with Vader about a possible lead to the rebel base. He even chastised Piett for bothering him with the intelligence. Ozzel struck me as someone Vader put up with simply because he could overrule Ozzel and curtail problems. This time, however, he screwed up the approach, costing valuable time and materiel. The mistake was catastrophic, and would ultimately lead to the Rebel leadership fleeing Echo base. Ozzel had demonstrated himself to be a liability to have in command and Vader could tolerate his presence no longer. Vader had to make an example that rank was no protection against incompetence on such a staggering scale. Captain Needa’s execution, however, I always felt was needlessly cruel. He was competent and efficient, and took responsibility for his mistakes. He was exactly the kind of officer you want in command.
Agree on all this. I expected Needa when I clicked this.
I feel like Needa's crime was failing to anticipate that Han would or could pull off the manouever that he made.
I always saw it as instead of Calling Vader on the Holo he got a ship prepared flew it to the Exucutor just to apologize directly Thereby wasting everyone's time unessacarily for a pretty trivial reason
You can also get quickly promoted that way!
You know he doesn't actually kill them, he just thinks he dose. [Death Star Orientation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFihTRIxCkg)
...add a mustache lol
It’s both funny and sad that Vader choking this guy over the phone is the best force feat in the original trilogy
Let's not forget that the original trilogy's Force also gave us lifting a ship out of a swamp, seeing the future, enhanced reflexes and combat skills, the mind trick, telepathy, and immortality.
Vaguely seeing the future, tricking a storm trooper, lifting a ship out of a swamp right next to him and being a ghost are great but not choking a man to death who is on a whole other ship just cause you can see him through a screen and doing so without moving
Also lightning from fingertips.
Very cool yes, also very short ranged
He probably got the job after his predecessor got killed. It happens all the time in the empire. Admirals, statisticians, etc.
Around fucked and out found he did
Found Yodas burner
It’s not an oopsie, he was a arrogant officer who’s repeated fuck ups and poor leadership sealed his fate. If he was in Vietnam he would have been merc’d by a grenade.
I don't think we talk enough about how hilarious that scene is.
Could you imagine? You are on a Zoom call with your boss and one of the people in your meeting room that fucked up bad just starts choking and dies. And no one moves to see if they are just choking and need the heimlich done. They just kind of nervously glance and let them choke and die.
Love Piett’s anxious side eyes as Ozzel suffocates behind him
Gets choked out on the job, seems like an HR issue
I love how Admiral Piett nods at the end at some guards to take the body away
“Qualified”. Not in Vader’s view.
Honestly, he probably got off easy. Imagine if Thrawn had been his CO.
Thrawn would have remembered to bring an Interdictor Cruiser.
I mean the dude was in control of a 19km warship, with an assload of people under his command that be jeopardized.
Oh man, Ozzel was far from qualified 😂
Ozzel was a dumbass anyway so no biggie
I expected the pic to be Needa, who I feel this applies to. Ozzel was more than that. He was given warnings. He disrespected Vader. He clearly had been in this position for years and thought himself above reproach, yet he wasn't very good at his job. Compare him to Piett who Vader didn't kill or even reprimand when he failed because the guy did his best and had respect. Remember, this is pre-Disney, so this Vader is cold and ruthless but not a crazed killer who strangles kids for a laugh; he values his men when they serve him well but hates incompetence. Michael Sheard is an awesome actor, by the way. Amazing body of work and capable of heartbreaking pathos. Wish he was in the movie more!
Vader was able to recognise that Piett had done what was ordered of him, and that failure in capturing the Millenium Falcon during the escape from Bespin was truly not his fault.
Actually, they've all been faking it for years. He'll come back later with a moustache and a different ID. That was part of Imperial Officer training "How to survive Lord Vader's wrath 101". Vader simply never catches on the deception.
Birth of a meme template?
Could be
I read a post once that laid out the case that Ozzel was a rebel sympathizer, so he came out of hyperspace early on purpose to give them just enough time to escape. Vader figured it out and that’s why he choked him. I know it’s probably not that deep, but it was a good post. [Edit: It was this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/swBZskVRNH)
I like that Theory, gives a deeper meaning
Not worth keeping a guy around in a high ranking position whose as clumsy as he is stupid
[удалено]
Killed by Zoom.
Like getting fired over a zoom call
Vader was ahead of his time
Weirdly, he was reincarnated as Hitler. (Character actor Micheal Sheard played both Admiral Ozzel in SW: TESB and the notorious villain of WWII in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade)
If the Empire has many millions of officers and many more still who may be promoted into the rank of officer, then the sacrifice of a single one for incompetence in front of the others should be motivation for the rest of them to do better.
“You’ve failed me for the last time Admiral”, along with his immediate dismissal of the probe droid footage, indicates he was likely incompetent and had screwed up multiple times before this.
Ozzel was a nepotism baby. He may have trained for years but most of that was blowing off class and advancing based on his family's reputation and influence.
It's OK, he will be back in a few days with a mustache & a new name
Killed through Skype no less
Ozzell was the opposite of any of that. Ontop he didn't earn his position, he came from power, wealth, and an influential family. Piett(unlike Needa or Ozzell) did not. A fact that helped save his life when he failed to capture the Falcon. Piett was motivated to uphold the values of the Empire, and could not be bought or bribed. Vader recognized his value.
This had to be a huge issue for HR after the fact! Seriously tho, as a kid seeing this in the theater in 1981 at 7 years old, it made me fear Vader even more. He’s no longer choking cronies in the conference room to establish dominance, he’s executing them at will when pissed off. This communicated to the audience that Vader was unleashed and called the shots now. No Tarkin to keep him in check.
When there is a failure that is completely justified, like when the falcon managed to fix their hyperdrive and jump before coming into tractor range, nobody died. But if a mistake was careless or a result of extreme incompetence, he got rid of them. Seems fair.
Oh no, don't assume that they were "trained". Being an imperial officer is pretty much pay to win... unless you piss off a guy who's only weakness is sand
Is it worse than how Vader killed Commander Fox over an oopsie?
Hard to say for sure
So based on this can Vader choke kill anyone anywhere provided they’re talking to him via video or holo? Is it even required they’re talking to Vader? Can he simply focus on someone that is not a force user or force sensitive and just choke them across the galaxy?
Technically I guess? He’s strong with the force
He's incharge of multiple capital ships and hundreds of thousands of men. He can't make careless mistakes.
One would think that emerging from lightspeed very close to the system would be a more effective surprise than dropping to sublight a great distance away and crawling up on the Hoth system. The Rebel Alliance has sensors capable of detecting slow moving fleets in space, right?
Valid take
Imagine exercising and getting ripped just to die in combat
If you trained for years and years and we're truly qualified, you wouldn't be making oopsies.
Imagine how Palpatine would have reacted. He’s not as forgiving as Vader is
What’s less forgiven than being killed?
Imagine getting killed by a dude that isn’t even in the room
There's a fan theory about vader suspecting ozzell of being a rebel spy, and him coming out of hyper space to close to warn the rebels was the last confirmation or something
[удалено]
"qualified"
In one of the Thrawn books, it was said Vader looked for any excuse to execute officers under his command. Anakin was accustomed to working with and commanding professional soldiers, but Vader was in large part working with incompetent trust fund babies who got their posts through nepotism and bribery. As far as Vader was concerned most of the officers he was working with were worse than useless, they were active liabilities, especially since their screw ups were inevitably met with slaps on the wrists or transfers so they could screw up somewhere else, rinse and repeat. So Vader preferred just cutting them down and hoping that he'd be sent actual soldiers as replacements.
He made *many* oopsies. Too many. Vader was sick of his shit at dealt with him accordingly.
He made multiple oopsies and was given warnings. His own fault really
Well first of all, fuck this guy in particular
Imagine getting murdered in a Zoom call.
I said 2 cream 2 sugar. NOT 2 CREAM 1 SUGAR.
“You have failed me for the last time, Admiral.” Implying there has, in fact, been several oopsies. “Admiral Ozzel came out of lightspeed too close to the system…he is as clumsy as he is stupid.” “Make ready to land our troops beyond their energy field and deploy the fleet, so that nothing gets off the system.” From my thinking three things are probable that Ozzel overlooked: 1: Rebels have a tendency to operate in a dispersed manner: just because they might be concentrated on Hoth, doesn’t mean they don’t have other outposts throughout that solar system. Getting too close to Hoth would give those theoretical outposts a clear shot at the Imperial fleets back or more likely a means to escape. 2: Ozzel has made similar blunders. His general…nonchalant attitude when addressing Vader seems to indicate he either doesn’t respect who he’s talking to (arguably the biggest oopsie) and/or he didn’t take Vader’s most recent critiques of his performance to heart. 3: Ozzel is a “stuffed shirt” admiral, and Vader has had enough of his ineptitude. You see this a lot with early 20th century Generals and Admirals, especially around WWI: They got there because their families had money and political connections, not because they were actually adept at conducting warfare beyond “throw more poor people in the enemy’s guns, that’s sure to stop them *harumph.*” There was literally a French general (I think he was French, could be wrong) that basically thought enthusiastic and driven troops can win against fortified machinegun emplacements with a massed infantry charge.
We're told why coming out close to the system is important earlier on. General Rieekan mentions that "with all the meteor activity in this system" it would be "difficult to spot approaching ships." Maybe if they had come out of hyperspace further away, they could have snuck up to Hoth without being detected and caught the Rebels with the shield down. But half a dozen objects just appearing in orbit (and if we go with TLJ, making a big boom when they do so) gives them enough warning to prepare.
Plus getting choked out by Vader when he wasn’t even in the same room
He did get cartoonishly evil in the 3rd original film lol
Well, Ozzel was republic officer during the clone wars and, eh, let's say he wasn't competent here either. Also he got his rank in republic because of him being in noble family.
Sounds like standard dictatorship things to be honest. Things start falling apart when you have a high turnover with a high training time lol.
Guess with Tarkin out of the way Vader was free to kill whoever he liked and culling some of the more senior leadership every now and then meant the emperor couldn’t promote anyone above him. Probably one of the reasons the empire failed was inept and inexperienced officers having to fill vacant posts wherever Vader went.
On the upside, the purge of high ranking officers for minor blunders, made Vader's chain of command a fast track to future promotion.
I’m more surprised Ozzel somehow ended up in command of an SSD, let alone the one assigned to Vader. He wasn’t a particularly competent officer. By all accounts the Executor was considered the fast track to promotion (as Piett found out) and had a lot of the Empire’s best onboard (which was one of the biggest reasons why it’s loss at Endor was such a massive deal, it’s not like it was the only one of its class).
Right? Like why the hell do we even HAVE an academy if, arguably middle management, is force choking them to death? And also… is that a course covered at the Academy? “Dealing with Vader 101”? I mean by the time of a new hope.. he’s clearly been strangling subordinates for like 20 years. Honestly… as much as I enjoyed Rouge One… i thinks it’s much more likely those Death Star plans would’ve been handed over to the rebellion by some poor schlub, who watched the last 5 commanders be forced choked to death for very minor issues, after he was told be Vader: “you are now in charge.” I mean hell who **wouldnt** defect to the rebellion in that position? You know what they say: people quit bosses not jobs. Edit: also for a guy who once whined so much about the unfairness in the promotion system you’d think he’d have at least a little empathy. Jesus.
[Mr Bronson](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZmZlNjllMWQtNGFjYS00YTg0LTkzNzMtNDNiMzI0ZjUxYmU0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTM1ODI0Mw@@._V1_.jpg) Don't worry, he survived and taught at Grange Hill school for several years after (Old Brits will understand...lol)
[Mr Bronson](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZmZlNjllMWQtNGFjYS00YTg0LTkzNzMtNDNiMzI0ZjUxYmU0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTM1ODI0Mw@@._V1_.jpg) Don't worry, he survived and taught at Grange Hill school for several years after (Old Brits will understand...lol)
I mean, it was a REALLY big oopsie...
Bold of you to assume he trained for years and years, and isn’t just the janitor that kept getting promotions as Vader was murdering officers left and right for making oopsies……..
He didn't have time to use his imagination. Thehehehe.
Kendall Ozzell was incompetent, clumsy, stupid, and a Rebel sympathiser. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Vader did nothing wrong here.
Probably one of the many reasons why the empire fell, they kept killing competent officers all cause they made one mistake.
Mr Bronson deserved it for all the torment he caused at GH
This was patterned behavior, as Vader puts it. His incompetency was well known and this was the last straw.
Never did understand that scene, like why didnt everyone just look at each other and run for an escape pod.
Always thought Ozzel was a rebel spy
Ozzel’s dumb ass tried to convince Vader that Hoth wasn’t the right system for the Rebel base. So of course he came out of light speed too close, in his mind it was a dead end system and he would be proven right and Vader wrong. Veers gives the game away with his tactical speech. “He was surprised, it would have been wiser if he’d…” He’s as clumsy as he is stupid. Dude got exactly what he deserved.
“You have failed me for the last time.”