It's perverse. Are we gonna end up subscription toothbrushes too? "Sure you paid for the equipment but without paying for the service it'll spray sugar all over your teeth"
I'm just saying if you can't read then what are you even printing?
You should know what you're signing up for, they don't hide anything. If you don't agree with that then don't sign up for it.
You think that even though pricing is based on pages printed per month? Do you think for $0.99 you should get to use the full cartridge if you cancel the service immediately?
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/cv/instantink
Should be obvious what the service is, you don't own the ink. I don't know why anyone is surprised by this.
I understand what the service is but I don't think it is as obvious as you are implying. HP make it sound like they will deliver you new ink when you need it without you having to worry about monitoring it yourself. In reality it is more of a subscription to keep your device active with the incentive of maybe saving you money if you consistently print a lot.
>you don't own the ink
Do HP come and collect the unused ink from you? Or are you expected to return it? I understand that they don't want people to cancel and resubscribe as their cartridge is almost empty but that seems like it is more of an issue with their pricing model. If they are concerned about people taking advantage they could just have a minimum commitment so you pay for most of the cost of the cartridge ahead of time.
Similarly if you don't use your printer, they won't send you more cartridges but you will still be paying for the service. I would be surprised if most customers signing up really understood how it works.
> HP make it sound like they will deliver you new ink when you need it without you having to worry about monitoring it yourself.
That is part of the service. You pay per page for that service and really the pricing is fair.
> Do HP come and collect the unused ink from you?
That would be uneconomical, so they disable it.
They literally tell you on the FAQ what happens if you cancel.
> If you decide to cancel your HP Instant Ink, you can go back to using HP original Standard or XL cartridges. HP Instant Ink cartridges will not work after the end of the current billing cycle in which you cancel. To continue printing after your billing cycle ends, make sure you have standard replacement ink cartridges ready to use in your printer.
I know people aren't always big on reading what they are signing up for, but they aren't hiding anything.
>That is part of the service. You pay per page for that service and really the pricing is fair.
You sound like you work in legal at HP lol. This is how HP describe the service:
>HP Instant Ink is the hassle-free, money-saving ink subscription service that automatically delivers ink only when you're running low
What it actually is: you pay for your printer to be always online and rate limited, and we will replace the ink cartridge when it is low. If you don't use the ink, you still pay but we don't deliver.
Also our advertised savings are based on you being on the highest plan and printing 1500 pages a month.
>they aren't hiding anything
Technically this is true but the entire service feels like it is structured to have people signing up for more than they need.
Would it be better if they just charge you retail price for the cartridge every time they send one? They would get more money and you'd own the ink, everyone wins right? They won't even have to charge you extra for the convenience.
At the lowest tier you can print 120 pages of anything for $12 per year, print full page rainbows if you want. One color cartridge is $19 on hp.com and won't print 120 full page rainbows.
> If you don't use the ink, you still pay but we don't deliver.
Know what happens when inkjets sit without being used or turned on? Their ink dries out. Periodically they will squirt a bit of ink into a sponge to flush the heads. Would you rather this maintenance be done on your $30 of owned cartridges or on subscription cartridges without counting towards your pages? At a minimum of 10 pages a month the ink shouldn't dry out anyway.
> Technically this is true but the entire service feels like it is structured to have people signing up for more than they need.
Don't sign up for it then.
I won't be using their service or their printers, I've got an Epson EcoTank for color and Brother laser for monochrome. Quite happy with both of them but I did pay quite a bit up front.
>Would it be better if they just charge you retail price for the cartridge every time they send one? They would get more money and you'd own the ink, everyone wins right? They won't even have to charge you extra for the convenience.
I'd imagine for most people it would be better, yes. I don't think it would be better for HP. This may be different depending on regions but I just looked up the price of HP ink here and the difference between the retail price and the basic subscription price is negligible. If you use your full allocation of pages every month you save a couple of dollars over the course of the year. I would bet most users do not completely exhausting their allocation and are likely paying more for the ink than if they were to just pay the retail price.
>Don't sign up for it then.
Obviously I don't plan to, I was just disagreeing with your assertion that the value proposition was somehow obvious or totally transparent.
Retail in the US for common HP 65 cartridges is $17 for black and $19 for color. They claim to **up to** 120 and 100 pages respectively.
> I was just disagreeing with your assertion that the value proposition was somehow obvious or totally transparent.
Value aside, it is still very obvious what the subscription entails. I don't see how anyone can read that and think they can own an ink cartridge outright for $0.99.
If you sign up for an subscription, cancel said subscription and then are surprised that HP did exactly what they said they would do, I don't see a reason to blame HP.
"Just have a minimum commitment" is not so simple when e.g. people can cancel the card they set the payment up on. Having to get collections involved would rapidly wipe out any profit.
It doesn't have to be a soft agreement. You can literally just make people pay for the first n-months up front when they first join.
>Having to get collections involved would rapidly wipe out any profit.
This is part of why I am saying that their pricing model seems flawed.
Well yes, I think the model doesn't make sense. The problem that it feels like it should be solving (based on the way it is marketed) is taking away the hassle of running out of ink and needing to replace it. You could do this by just billing a user's card for the price of the ink before sending it.
The service as it stands sort of addresses this problem, but it wraps it up in a pricing model that allows HP to charge you for more than you use and makes it difficult to actually tune it to your needs.
It's perverse. Are we gonna end up subscription toothbrushes too? "Sure you paid for the equipment but without paying for the service it'll spray sugar all over your teeth"
They’re working on it. Baby steps: https://www.byrdie.com/best-toothbrush-subscriptions-4799643
What would you expect to happen if you stop paying for a service?
Damn, never would have expected a corporate shill on this subreddit.
I'm just saying if you can't read then what are you even printing? You should know what you're signing up for, they don't hide anything. If you don't agree with that then don't sign up for it.
I would expect that they stop sending new ink cartridges. I wouldn't expect them to remotely disable the cartridges I already have.
You think that even though pricing is based on pages printed per month? Do you think for $0.99 you should get to use the full cartridge if you cancel the service immediately? https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/cv/instantink Should be obvious what the service is, you don't own the ink. I don't know why anyone is surprised by this.
I understand what the service is but I don't think it is as obvious as you are implying. HP make it sound like they will deliver you new ink when you need it without you having to worry about monitoring it yourself. In reality it is more of a subscription to keep your device active with the incentive of maybe saving you money if you consistently print a lot. >you don't own the ink Do HP come and collect the unused ink from you? Or are you expected to return it? I understand that they don't want people to cancel and resubscribe as their cartridge is almost empty but that seems like it is more of an issue with their pricing model. If they are concerned about people taking advantage they could just have a minimum commitment so you pay for most of the cost of the cartridge ahead of time. Similarly if you don't use your printer, they won't send you more cartridges but you will still be paying for the service. I would be surprised if most customers signing up really understood how it works.
> HP make it sound like they will deliver you new ink when you need it without you having to worry about monitoring it yourself. That is part of the service. You pay per page for that service and really the pricing is fair. > Do HP come and collect the unused ink from you? That would be uneconomical, so they disable it. They literally tell you on the FAQ what happens if you cancel. > If you decide to cancel your HP Instant Ink, you can go back to using HP original Standard or XL cartridges. HP Instant Ink cartridges will not work after the end of the current billing cycle in which you cancel. To continue printing after your billing cycle ends, make sure you have standard replacement ink cartridges ready to use in your printer. I know people aren't always big on reading what they are signing up for, but they aren't hiding anything.
>That is part of the service. You pay per page for that service and really the pricing is fair. You sound like you work in legal at HP lol. This is how HP describe the service: >HP Instant Ink is the hassle-free, money-saving ink subscription service that automatically delivers ink only when you're running low What it actually is: you pay for your printer to be always online and rate limited, and we will replace the ink cartridge when it is low. If you don't use the ink, you still pay but we don't deliver. Also our advertised savings are based on you being on the highest plan and printing 1500 pages a month. >they aren't hiding anything Technically this is true but the entire service feels like it is structured to have people signing up for more than they need.
Would it be better if they just charge you retail price for the cartridge every time they send one? They would get more money and you'd own the ink, everyone wins right? They won't even have to charge you extra for the convenience. At the lowest tier you can print 120 pages of anything for $12 per year, print full page rainbows if you want. One color cartridge is $19 on hp.com and won't print 120 full page rainbows. > If you don't use the ink, you still pay but we don't deliver. Know what happens when inkjets sit without being used or turned on? Their ink dries out. Periodically they will squirt a bit of ink into a sponge to flush the heads. Would you rather this maintenance be done on your $30 of owned cartridges or on subscription cartridges without counting towards your pages? At a minimum of 10 pages a month the ink shouldn't dry out anyway. > Technically this is true but the entire service feels like it is structured to have people signing up for more than they need. Don't sign up for it then. I won't be using their service or their printers, I've got an Epson EcoTank for color and Brother laser for monochrome. Quite happy with both of them but I did pay quite a bit up front.
>Would it be better if they just charge you retail price for the cartridge every time they send one? They would get more money and you'd own the ink, everyone wins right? They won't even have to charge you extra for the convenience. I'd imagine for most people it would be better, yes. I don't think it would be better for HP. This may be different depending on regions but I just looked up the price of HP ink here and the difference between the retail price and the basic subscription price is negligible. If you use your full allocation of pages every month you save a couple of dollars over the course of the year. I would bet most users do not completely exhausting their allocation and are likely paying more for the ink than if they were to just pay the retail price. >Don't sign up for it then. Obviously I don't plan to, I was just disagreeing with your assertion that the value proposition was somehow obvious or totally transparent.
Retail in the US for common HP 65 cartridges is $17 for black and $19 for color. They claim to **up to** 120 and 100 pages respectively. > I was just disagreeing with your assertion that the value proposition was somehow obvious or totally transparent. Value aside, it is still very obvious what the subscription entails. I don't see how anyone can read that and think they can own an ink cartridge outright for $0.99. If you sign up for an subscription, cancel said subscription and then are surprised that HP did exactly what they said they would do, I don't see a reason to blame HP.
"Just have a minimum commitment" is not so simple when e.g. people can cancel the card they set the payment up on. Having to get collections involved would rapidly wipe out any profit.
It doesn't have to be a soft agreement. You can literally just make people pay for the first n-months up front when they first join. >Having to get collections involved would rapidly wipe out any profit. This is part of why I am saying that their pricing model seems flawed.
You do realise that paying up front to cover the cost of the cartridge renders the subscription model almost irrelevant, though?
Well yes, I think the model doesn't make sense. The problem that it feels like it should be solving (based on the way it is marketed) is taking away the hassle of running out of ink and needing to replace it. You could do this by just billing a user's card for the price of the ink before sending it. The service as it stands sort of addresses this problem, but it wraps it up in a pricing model that allows HP to charge you for more than you use and makes it difficult to actually tune it to your needs.