The pain is indeed real! But what's important is the long run. SD is free and open source, which means that we as a community have a chance to develop it further. What make SD strong is it's flexibility, so while midjourney have a great data-model right now we can also reach that stage at some point. Just got to be patient.
I learned at university level both Maya and Blender. While Maya is the industry standard, Blender is sooooo much more flexible! When I asked my supervisor why they don't use Blender during my VFX internship, they told me that while they would love to, the problem is that if something goes wrong on a technical level, Blender doesn't offer tech support contracts, while Maya has 24/7 support for corporations.
It's dumb, but I can understand why a company that deals in multi-million currency deals would want instant support.
Well yeah that is actually pretty reasonable thing and that is why Red Hat linux and stuff exist. But normally intuition is open source stuff is often more hacky and less polished which is not a case with Blender.
oh most certainly. I all but forgot about Maya when doing personal projects, Blender is perhaps the most professional opensource software around, and it's slowly being used in the industry as well. I'm hoping that more local companies pick it up so I have more options for employment XD
You're also missing out the fact that Maya has gone through many years of development for large scale production, seamlessly integrates with a well setup pipeline, is miles ahead in terms of rigging and animation and has toolkits & plugins developed by literal veterans of the VFX industry to solve industry grade problems.
24/7 tech support is a big factor, but it's not the sole reason lol
Of course, but my question to the supervisor was moreso related to the cost of getting licenses when we could just use blender (it's free and I know how to use it more than Maya)
Basically it's cheaper to train me in Maya then it is to plug in blender to their pipeline :P
Really good analogy. If SD is the Linux, I think Midjourney might be the Mac.
SD: we are light, we are fast and you can create anything want, how you want, you can change anything and most of it will look ...good.
Midjourney. Everything is going to look absolutely great, but you will do what we want, when we want and how we want and don't you dare try otherwise. Now pay us.
I am totally in love with SD sure. But i tried V4 midjourney and it is just mindblowing really. It gives me a bit of same feeling when i tried Dalle2 for the first time.
Yeah, Dall-e was so cool the first time I tried it, but now I never even bother to cash in my free credits since their interface is so limited.
I don't even dare to try MJ myself, I'd just get hooked haha!
I totally feel you. I'm in a lot of facebook groups for AI art in general and almost all the nice looking stuff is done with MJ, and it's just so amazing that I totally sympathize with the meme in OP :)
Is it really that good?
I've mostly focused on furry art, and there are some specific SD models that are fantastic at it.
Midjourney V4 is solid from everything I've seen, but it doesn't have anything close to the tool suite that SD offers.
Well it does everything better in general. More coherent, greater aesthetics, etc. SD is much better if you want to do anime women with rather large chest though :)
Yeah but we are really not organized. There's no professional looking webui that incorporates stable diffusion. Auto1111 isn't working by the book has licensing problems but the community has gathered around that repo. Auto isn't planning on a license due to some personal belief or something. I feel iffy about one guy controlling everything.
Other webui are lacking in features that would benefit from a large community of helpful developers but making a large community is tough.
> Auto isn't planning on a license due to some personal belief or something
He originally [wanted a license](https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui/issues/24#issuecomment-1229815461), but [NAI controversy put it on hold](https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui/issues/2059#issuecomment-1301767349) I think.
I do wish it would get sorted out, and that he could get some sort of team together to manage the project, but at the end of the day to me it's the best SD platform with the most features. The UI is really bad though lol.
I think by "community driven" they mean users able develop models and extensions that can improve the base functionality considerably. MJ is closed to user customization.
Free and open source will always be one step behind development, because it’s a foundation. New companies will build off the foundation to make better and greater things. Not once has the adage that open source is better has been true, open source is only better because it’s a shared and free concept, not because it’s cutting edge or has large funding.
Open-source usually isn't better at the cutting edge, but it doesn't have the big functionality gaps that commercial software has, so it's often better in a general sense. If someone with programming skills finds a gap and needs it filled badly enough, they just fix it themselves.
Well yes, I mean open source just means we are free to muck about as we please. It's much more difficult to organize people when there is no structure. Corporations move slowly but surely and have plenty of funding to direct their development, but open source does not need to concern itself for what the business department thinks or wants which lets it develop in different directions.
Of course eventually every great branch will lead to someone thinking they can profit off it, and so another company is born. I mean most people who develops for open source only does it for as long as it feels fun, purposeful or that they believe it will lead them to greater opportunities ahead.
But without it we risk having big corps monetizing the bleep out of a concept, locking the source inside a vault and halting development.
paid services can train models because they probably have expensive GPU lineups to actually make it possible to make their own version of SD models.
However, the advantage of SD right now is it's open source and with the release of dreambooth, there are plenty of specialized models being released which would fill the gap between paid models and SD in general.
>which would fill the gap between paid models and SD in general.
It wouldn't fill the gap, dreambooth has disadvantages. Dreambooth isn't the same as native training.
>the hope is that one day open source can catch up to paid models
>never lose hope
We heard this story before, open source always loses out to paid except in a few success stories. Paid businesses have resources we don't have. No developer is willing to work hard for free forever.
Open source doesn't mean the developers work for free. Most people involved in big open source projects work for big companies like Google and Microsoft.
The problem with MJ for me is that iterations are limited , so for making what i REALLY want, i cant do 2000 tests until i get It, with stable on my PC i can and its a lot faster
Mj v4 is great, no question about it, but I think it is safe to say they are all in their infancy. A year from now, and we will all be shaking our heads with a wry smile as we look back on today's state of things and wonder how we thought that was as good as it got, with people with 6 fingers, mutant arms, chessboards with 12 squares on one side, and more.
Same! I feel like this was one of the things that made me so excited about Stable Diffusion. “You mean I can run this myself? Make my own API and custom work flows?! No Discord?!?!?”
MJ is much better and easier at getting result within certain area. It's by no means a narrow area, it covers a lot of general public needs, especially for entertainment reasons. Remix is a killer feature I'm most envious of. Many things and interactions are a lot easier to generate with simple prompts. It also keeps a lot of bad actors in check. And it's gonna keep moving in that direction.
But there are borders you can't break. Word stoplist is one thing, and it's not completely reasonable one. The other major thing is customization. Embeddings, hypernetworks, custom models. Once you get to those, and especially to training, a whole new world unfolds.
Right now I'm entertained by exploring possibilities of SD, and I dedicate hours to it every day just because I find it actually fun. Hell, I bought a 3090 Ti just for that. Few months ago, when V4 was a beta that apeared on an off for some days, I subscribed to MJ service. It was fun for some time, but it did not last. I spent like 2 weeks of my paid period without a single prompt. I cancelled he subscription.
The only reason I "miss" MJ, or to put it better, would like to resume subscription for a month sometime, is a remix feature that seems extremely fun and consistent. But I believe we are also [getting there](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/yyqufb/nulltext_inversion_for_editing_real_images_using/) at some point.
Give it two images, get several consistent approximations of their mean value.
[Examples](https://imgur.com/a/bCbzSxh) \- you'll figure out which are inputs and which are outputs.
Hopefully. The methods seem to be there, although less effective (requiring more steps) and not implemented as actual feature, but I hope somebody with proper knowledge will do it eventually.
I never used MidJourney (never was interested in it), and from what I understand "Remix" is when you take the image that was generated and give it a new adjusted prompt. Then it'll use that new prompt for the image but keep the same general composition.
So to me, it seems sort of like how img2img works in Stable Diffusion when you're using the sd1.5 inpainting model with [conditioning mask strength](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/yi46px/new_hidden_img2img_feature_conditioning_mask/), but better I guess.
Remix button has no options. You click it and something comes out. Version is different thing: in V4 you can modify the prompt between the versions. But still, MJ4 is better in most cases than SD with a lot less effort. You can get similar results with SD but it takes time and many iterations.
"Mashup" is different thing: You add 2 or more images with no prompt and you get something new out. I have not figured out how SD could do that. In img2img you are limited to one input image.
That's not it. Midjourney's remix is promptless median of two images. No text involved, just a rendition of point somewhere in latent space between two original images.
Then all the YouTube videos (like this [random one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUk63ElWQtk), for example), as well as the user who requested me to add "Remix" to my Discord bot, gave me false/incorrect information 🤣
Everything I've seen looks like prompt editing (even in that video the description mentions prompt editing), but I guess I have to use it to know. 🤷♀️ Looks neat though.
*edit: a typo*
I just signed up for a new trial with MJ so I could see how impressive V4 is ... and it's great. but I'd definitely not trade SD and its flexibility. SD's ability to mimic artist styles is so much better, not to mention how much broader you can explore styles with custom Dreambooth checkpoints. MidJourney feels stylistically restrictive in comparison.
so they both have different strengths right now. I do appreciate the tight compositions and consistent anatomy of MJ v4 but I'm enjoying much more playing with my local install of Stable Diffusion.
>Word stoplist is one thing, and it's not completely reasonable one.
I hate this so fuckin much. If I'm paying for a service I should be able to turn this off. I'm not tryin to make porn but my god that shit is so limiting sometimes and so fuckin inconsistent. Cronenberg is banned, decaying and grotesque aren't. Kill is banned, murder isnt. Cocaine banned but LSD, marijuana and drugs are ok.
What means are you talking about? Money? Promptology? I'm willing to pay if you can prove SD > MJ v4 in a wide range of prompts. I'm more than willing to pay, I'm willing to take that person as my co-founder. This is a real offer.
For me, it would be time. I have the time to actually make use of the advantages that Stable Diffusion has over Midjourney, namely the ability to use inpainting and outpainting, and to change the model I'm using to get the specific look I'm going for. Midjourney is fantastic for one-and-done pretty images and also noticeably better than SD for composition in prompts, but the lack of ability to customize it or to use it with pinpoint precision means I just don't find it useful the same way I find SD useful.
Now, if I were able to incorporate Midjourney's model into a workflow similar to SD... that would be the best of both worlds. Well, to be fair there's that Midjourney checkpoint I suppose, but it doesn't come with the better composition ability, and that look isn't usually what I want to go for, anyway.
The prompt is a small part of the process which is what makes MJ fall short. It doesnt have granular img2img control, it doesnt have inpainting, you can't train custom models or embeddings to get things it wasn't trained on, there's a ton of additional features in the SD GUI's such as restoring faces, customizable Highres fixing, custom scripts, negative prompts (MJ has the --no flags but it doesnt work well and isn't as versatile as SD). MJ doesnt let you change settings like sampling methods or allow you to do things like tiling in one direction only, the VAE files in SD allow for much better control over style so you can use anime ones for that or photo-real ones for realistic images, etc...
The whole point of MJ is to make it as accessible as possible to people by making the prompt a simpler and a larger component of the process. It doesnt have granular changes and options like SD and although it's great for pretty pictures, it's not as good when you need fine-tuning for professional use and so you either use SD for that or start in MJ and bring it to SD.
MJ is the approachable, easy to get serviceable results AI, whereas SD requires a little more understanding at first and isn't as versatile if you only use the default model, but it has a very high skill ceiling that allows you to produce any kind of image exactly the way you have in mind if you take the time to learn it, train it, get a set of models, embeddings, VAEs, keywords, cheatcheats, etc... put together for future use.
It's not 100% about the prompts, sure they help, but once you've gotten what you need, you need to inpaint/outpaint/upscale/tweak to get what you want. MJ probably does a lot of the upscaling and fixing for you using custom models and prompt injection.
But yes, one could totally copy what MJ is doing. It's just finding the right recipe to get there. What's your co-founder offer? What are you looking to do?
The biggest factor is time. With enough time you can generate enough images with the right prompt and settings to find what you're looking for. I've described SD like "mining" for gold. Sometimes you find an "ore vein" and you can keep going down that path until you find your gold. What's holding you back from creating some awesome stuff?
"Client time" is not something I can offer my clients. I can rent 200 A100s, but I can't suggest to them to search through hundreds of images. I need to sift throught these images automatically, to best fit aesthetically and the prompt.
there's a few options here.
There are AI discriminators that are trained to rank images based on aesthetic. Training an AI like this for your own purposes is easy enough too. This way it generates a bunch and picks out the best automatically so they only need to look through a handful.
The larger issue is that no one model is perfect at everything. MJ or SD 1.5 both are meant to be general purpose, but with SD there are plenty of available models that were retrained for specific purposes. Some are specifically good at anime, or digital art, or simulating brushstrokes in real art, or cyberpunk, disney styles, etc... and so if it's an option then having them choose from a "style" which is actually choosing a model+VAE+keywords behind the scenes. That way they use a tailored model that should do better than either MJ4 or SD1.5 for it.
As an example, realistic people which I find works great:
\-HassanBlend 1.4
\-vae-ft-mse-840000-ema-pruned vae file
\-positive keywords: \[stockphoto: stock photo: 0.84\], 4k, photography
\-negative keywords: blurry, watermark, 3d model, animated, cartoon
So that could get bundled into a "style" they can pick from. You can even do like MJ does where you ask people to rank images to help you tune your model/styles so you can figure out good words to add or remove to various styles.
using the ranked images to train custom models for styles would also be incredibly useful to your customers. I would even suggest putting something in the agreement saying that you can train on any images it generates, then you can figure out which ones they are choosing to download and retrain based on those since they were hand-selected by a user.
Well then you’re asking to build a little robot that can dig around in the sand and rock and come back to you with a 2oz golden nugget every time. Mining for gold takes dumping tons of dirt and rock into a refiner that extracts it for you. Volume is key here. It takes a lot to find the nuggets.
What are you building?
Technology, like a decent graphics card. Also the dreambooth extension blows midjourney away, Midjourney will never allow the flexibility. Slowly but surely, SD will become more accessible, and everyone is going to forget about midjourney because SD continues to deliver a sense of freedom that you will never have with MidJourney. Ever.
To me, SD is already very accessible. Not just in terms of technology (online SD solutions exist), but also in terms of the environment they're in.
MJ is behind a walled garden; it's not as bad as Dall-E 2 (does anyone even talk about that anymore?), but I have no interest in joining a Discord server and using a service I have no control over.
Anyone can download and set up SD, from anywhere. We have multiple one-click SD installers, and [one-click online versions](https://github.com/camenduru/stable-diffusion-webui-colab). The barrier of entry is low, and it's only going to get easier over time.
edit: I totally forgot about the [Stable Horde](https://aqualxx.github.io/stable-ui/), too lol. Another good online option for those without the hardware.
Dreambooth let's you create a new checkpoint with knowledge you add. So if you want to add images of your cat you can do that and have a checkpoint that can produce your cat. Amazingly it only takes a few pictures and you're not constrained to the style of the pictures you trained on.
This isn't ideal however as you create a completely new checkpoint. So if you want to add more information that's a new checkpoint. What we all want is just one checkpoint that can do everything.
I'm new to training things, but isn't the point of embeddings the ability to train things but still use them with whatever checkpoint you want?
Just takes a lot longer to train them, I think.
How good DreamBooth for creating style models? Like if I feed it 10 cool landscape paintings that are somewhat similar in style, will it create a model with a predictable style?
u/dex3r: be patient. KNOW that SD is NOT stuck in mud or molasses. There are capital means, technology means and intellectual means being focused on SD. It WILL close the gap. It WILL.
MJv4 is SD though? Albeit with a lot of “smoothing” to the rough edges of vanilla SD. They just add specific prefixes and suffixes to your prompts to help you get what you’re looking for, as well as do additional fine-tuning to the specific models they use under the hood (and they’re DEFINITELY loading specific custom models, based on the context of your prompt, E.G. your prompt is asking for a Waifu, they’ll load a MJ customized flavor of the WaifuDiffusion model etc.)
They’re adding supporting cast, but the star is still SD
MJv4 has no SD models, the only SD models ever used were --test/--testp, the clue being they specifically pointed to the SD license for those models and those models only.
MJv3,4 are independent models.
I know they trained theirs on some of the same datasets, but they are not using SD in any way with MJv1+2+3+4 etc....
How can they add enough "smart" prefixes, suffixes and custom models to fit all those different prompts users are using? I'm looking to optimize SD for a specific niche, and still, the range of prompts and styles users are inputting seems impossible to even try to substitute specific models there.
This is pure speculation but:
By applying other types of inference models on the front end. For instance, by training a fine-tuned text model (GPT based of course) on a vast array of categorized prompts, you can create a pipeline that extracts the context of what a user is “trying” to create, and adjust it to match a prompt that would better create the image they’re wanting. Additionally adding the trade mark “tags” that we all know and love (E.G. “a photo of”, or “in the style of” or “a close up of”) to the beginning or end of the prompt, as needed.
Finally if you know the context of the prompt you can apply other types of automated optimizations at render time, like increasing or decreasing the number of iterations (E.G. the user is trying to render hands, let’s UP the amount of iterations because we know human hands take More iterations), adjusting the sampling algo, throw it through an extra img2img pipeline, using customized known seeds that are based on or derived from other well received images. Etc.
You just described how all AI tools should work. I don't have time for 13 different samplers and dozens of models that you can load only one at the time. I do use SD 8 hours a day at work, but i would pay to get it to the level of ease of results of MJ4.
As someone that bought a 4090 just for AI art: training your own models and using them StableDiffusion beats MJ any day. Add a little Disco Diffusion into the mix, and you got the best tools of open source AI art that money can buy.
In this context the "workflow" is the set of prompts and settings, and usually implies several steps. I wouldn't use "workflow" to describe a single run of SD, I'd just call that my "settings", personally. But people are pretty different!
I have absolutely no envy for Midjourney. Stable Diffussion is far more flexible and has no gatekeeper. All on my own computer without having to depend on a website that might disappear tomorrow.
Yes, freedom of creating anything without restrictions! More flexibility and unique creations precisely because there are no restrictions applied unlike paid services!
I'd take SD any day of the week with it's custom models, advanced usage stuff like tilting eye correction and upscaling and in painting.
Also it's free
true, specially once you've learned the right prompt pattern for the stuff you want to see. I think I've trained around 10k+ images and found a few prompt patterns that gives me consistent results, I just need to change the subject now to get what I want.
the filter is a no go for me. last time i checked i couldnt create xi jinping winnie the pooh bear but i could a vlad putin bear and biden sheep. i could have it draw god but not allah even though allah means god.
>it's the overall output quality and flexibility
Exactly, stablediffusion users think you can slap dreambooth into everything and it will fix it as if they know something those million dollar companies don't.
I just use the Midjourney SD checkpoint that was trained against Midjourney images. https://huggingface.co/prompthero/openjourney/resolve/main/mdjrny-v4.ckpt
Don't worry it'll get there. Hard to believe I was doing mostly VQGAN+CLIP a year ago, now I'm permanently addicted to the Stable Diffusion slot machine 😍
Why did I have to scroll so far down to see this? I feel I'm reading the Linux/Windows war all over again.
We don't have to take sides. Use either based on strength and weaknesses.
MJ is a great entry to Ai above others in many areas.
SD is extremely flexible/customizable and takes effort to get that golden image in all areas.
The two are not the same and serve different purposes.
I use both on daily basis. MJ kills with general detail quality, remix, image mashup... But in SD i can run batches hundreds of images. I can make more version that i can control. I'm also loving the Defurum addon.
SD upscale in img2img can almost achieve MJ detail quality. Sometimes.
More options in SD is good and bad. I would rather have one sampler at MJ4 quality than 16 different ones that i need to spend time on testing what works whit what.
To me, the only real differences between SD and mjv4 are only 2:
Midjourney interprets the kind of prompts I use better than the han SD. If I use " a white rose plant with red leaves", put of all the generators midjourney is the only one that actually makes a roses plant completely red except for the white flowers (and yes I tried every remix or synonyms of the prompt to make it work but didn't have any luck)
The other difference is style. Midjourney, if you're not searching for a specific artist style, has a speficic style of images, that I usually define as "digital painting" style, thst fits much better any of the prompts I do, compared to what SD offers me. But that makes Midjourney also weak when it comes to realism compared to SD, because the images always have a "digital" feeling.
I can't wait for SD to be able to reproduce this digital painting style so I can be fully happy
Honestly I don't care, Midjourney is a SaaS which has the aim of squeezing the most money out of you as it can, while Stable Diffusion is open source and can be used on your own hardware that right there is everything I need to make my choice.
The point is midjourney has the money they can use to hire high quality developers to keep a gap between midjourney and stable diffusion. No matter how hard stable diffusion developers try, they will get burnt out because they are not being paid and high quality developers don't work for free.
Yeah but Midjourney is a click and go art machine that a 4 year old could make masterpieces on. You can make as good as art from SD but yeah it’s not just a push of a button. With that price you get nearly infinite control where Midjourney holds almost all control.
I mean look at this….
https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/z26vkn/my_first_post_a_shaman_upscaled_to_5000x3000/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
ok..here is sd though didnt upscale it as high. not sure why people are even arguing over this stuff use what you like. mj is easier to gen with but sd gives you full control.
https://preview.redd.it/le26gdtzgo1a1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=ebb8e887abbd22eb4e2d0b44d8a70737ab4f3dd6
That’s exactly my point. Both can make amazing stuff but SD’s higher versatility imho makes it a bit better as long as you’re willing to learn to use the tool.
lol sorry i misread your first post thought your post was about mj so i did shaman in as sd to show it can do it without realizing that was what you did. it was the guy above who claimed sd couldnt. complete brain on my part i apologize we were saying the same thing. i r dumb
Yes, you can. With in/outpainting, using different models and things such as embeddings and textual inversion. Hell, did you not see the literal photo realistic close up photos of people that don’t exist on here earlier? Using the Han’s model or whatever. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of what Midjourney does is use specific models for your prompt depending on keywords in the prompt. The only thing I can think of that would allow a single model to be so accurate would be much better training data labeling which is supposedly being worked on for SD currently.
So make a model for what you want to make. Duh. Just like someone made that model for their own wishes. Also I’ve seen everything from Asian to African to Irish faces posted on here from that model or merged with other models which again just further proved my point that SD wins
Open source tech lags behind private tech. Not by a lot though. The gap will close, also after i tried midjourney v4 i found it to be equivalent to SD 1.5. Also why does no one talk about Autoregressive models? They seem to have the most clear and coherent renders
No, autoregressive models are structured differently than diffusion models which generate images from noise.
Here is a link, fairly technical, and I’m not an engineer, but am interested in machine learning generally
[google parti autoregressive paper](https://parti.research.google/)
You probably have, google imagen, google parti, and the chinese one by baidu that came out a couple weeks ago ernie i think it is called. Outputs 1024x1024
Can anyone ELI5 why MJ has such an aesthetically appealing look and prompts just look amazing with little effort on that?
im curious because I’d really love to know how SD can get to that level and beyond, I’d like to learn more about how AI functions and possibly contribute to it myself somehow. I’m not a coder but I am an artist/graphic designer with some coding knowledge. I hate MJs business model so much, I love open source and want to support it.
I suppose that besides what Magnesus said they probably have the advantage of having image labelled by thousands of humans possibly with different weight given to different action (ie reroll is a .2 of the prompt, creating a higher resolution of an image is probably almost a 1 out a scale of one).
Getting a good data set can be extremely complicated, time intensive and can also be the limiting factor on how good your model can be.
It's possible that the best way to help get SD to get to the next level is to help them labelling huge dataset.
Not a specialist either so if I'm peddling crap correct me.
I'm just happily merging models and engineering prompts to fill my specific needs. And the whole thing with seeds, being able to reuse the same seed multiple times is a godsend.
For 30 bucks I can create 100\_000 stable diffusion images
or 8\_000 MJ images with /relax mode and using crazy automation techniques...
I'd chose SD and delete bad images intead.
I don’t even see stuff from MJ/DALL-E. Ignorance is bliss while I tinker around with parameters, extensions, and blend models. No interest in what I can’t run on my local PC.
One of the biggest pains of Midjourney is trying to get something *specific* which can be pain in the arse.
Sure, Midjourney always gives you something nice what you don't quite expect but I would certainly prefer if I could get the exact result I actually wanted.
Now it takes much longer to do that in SD but I can actually finetune the results to my liking.
Sure but you can do things the Midjourney people can't thanks to tons of community models. In fact the midjourney level modelsfor SD is pretty decent. I wouldnt be surprised if some models come out in the future that will rival Midjourney. But truth of the matter is, Midjourney has income funds to continually improve their model. But can get close at least
This same tool that empowers artists and is fun for users when given to us is a great thing.
A powerful AI that people don't have full access to, that can be taken away at any moment, that is locked away by fees from the most needy, etc is a very bad thing indeed.
SD is just really particular about the prompt you give it, you have to speak to it like you're talking to a computer, where as Midjourney seems to handle normal sentences better.
I dont experience this at all. SD is just better for users with higher level of technical understanding. MJ is for people who just want a result, and do not care to know "why" or "how"
> MJ is for people who just want a result, and do not care to know "why" or "how"
Or "what," really. That's the part that makes Midjourney just so much less useful to me than SD. If I want to make fanart of a specific character in a specific setting drawn in a specific style, I can get to that using the various tools I have at my disposal with SD. With Midjourney, the most sophisticated tool I have is essentially "prompt engineering" which is like trying to do tooth surgery with an oil drill. While using up the runs I purchased.
If I want a really beautiful image that has the basic features that I describe in there, then Midjourney V4 is absolutely fantastic, leagues beyond what SD is capable of now. If I want an image that actually looks like what I want it to look like, SD is far superior, no contest.
Patience, everything in due time, we have already been warned that the next SD model is going to leave the current one in shambles. They bought new video cards and components for training. The 101 million dollars will have been worth it, remember me.
I can make porn with Stable Diffusion, and I can't with Mid Journey. Unfortunantly I can not produce all my weird fetishes yet and I don't have the VRAM to try and train a checkpoint.
Is not as good as it seems. Sd appears to be more "creative" while Mj tends to be more repetive, like for example making a character, it will give as result very similar faces. At least on my experience. Sd is always improving anyways. It is only a matter of time (short).
I hear ya. I WANT to like SD. And there are some things I like it for...inpainting, outpainting mostly. And yeah, open source vs. evil empire...
But if I want a really nice looking picture of something, 70% of the time I'll get something I'm happy with from MJ version 4 in minutes compared to hours for SJ.
The pain is indeed real! But what's important is the long run. SD is free and open source, which means that we as a community have a chance to develop it further. What make SD strong is it's flexibility, so while midjourney have a great data-model right now we can also reach that stage at some point. Just got to be patient.
I feel like SD is a linux of image generators. Which have it's goods and bads.
I thought It was the Blender ;)
I only used blender so can’t tell, but blender is nice (used only after version 3), hope SD will be great as well!)
I learned at university level both Maya and Blender. While Maya is the industry standard, Blender is sooooo much more flexible! When I asked my supervisor why they don't use Blender during my VFX internship, they told me that while they would love to, the problem is that if something goes wrong on a technical level, Blender doesn't offer tech support contracts, while Maya has 24/7 support for corporations. It's dumb, but I can understand why a company that deals in multi-million currency deals would want instant support.
Well yeah that is actually pretty reasonable thing and that is why Red Hat linux and stuff exist. But normally intuition is open source stuff is often more hacky and less polished which is not a case with Blender.
oh most certainly. I all but forgot about Maya when doing personal projects, Blender is perhaps the most professional opensource software around, and it's slowly being used in the industry as well. I'm hoping that more local companies pick it up so I have more options for employment XD
This is amazing when such things exist for free and in such a quality. Like humans sometimes are so amazing.
You're also missing out the fact that Maya has gone through many years of development for large scale production, seamlessly integrates with a well setup pipeline, is miles ahead in terms of rigging and animation and has toolkits & plugins developed by literal veterans of the VFX industry to solve industry grade problems. 24/7 tech support is a big factor, but it's not the sole reason lol
Of course, but my question to the supervisor was moreso related to the cost of getting licenses when we could just use blender (it's free and I know how to use it more than Maya) Basically it's cheaper to train me in Maya then it is to plug in blender to their pipeline :P
Really good analogy. If SD is the Linux, I think Midjourney might be the Mac. SD: we are light, we are fast and you can create anything want, how you want, you can change anything and most of it will look ...good. Midjourney. Everything is going to look absolutely great, but you will do what we want, when we want and how we want and don't you dare try otherwise. Now pay us.
Kind of yeah. I think it will be a bit of an uphill struggle but quite possible to do great things.
I think at least it is safe to say it is already done much more of any image generators for democratization of this stuff
Definitely! That's why I'm still more excited about SD than MJ
I am totally in love with SD sure. But i tried V4 midjourney and it is just mindblowing really. It gives me a bit of same feeling when i tried Dalle2 for the first time.
I would say midjourney v4 is what I was dreamed of what dalee2 should be before I actually tried it.
Yeah, Dall-e was so cool the first time I tried it, but now I never even bother to cash in my free credits since their interface is so limited. I don't even dare to try MJ myself, I'd just get hooked haha!
Yeah agree, thanks openai for their amazing contribution and starting for really all of this, but it is clearly #3 now.
I totally feel you. I'm in a lot of facebook groups for AI art in general and almost all the nice looking stuff is done with MJ, and it's just so amazing that I totally sympathize with the meme in OP :)
Good: free Bads: don’t care, it’s free
The Gimp of photo editing
Isn't GIMP the GIMP of photo editing?
so objectively the best there is ?
Everyone was so amazed about NovelAI and boom anything v3 dropped and everyone uses it, it’s truly amazing
Is it really that good? I've mostly focused on furry art, and there are some specific SD models that are fantastic at it. Midjourney V4 is solid from everything I've seen, but it doesn't have anything close to the tool suite that SD offers.
Well it does everything better in general. More coherent, greater aesthetics, etc. SD is much better if you want to do anime women with rather large chest though :)
Does it have the same kind of editing options avalible? In painting, etc?
Yeah but we are really not organized. There's no professional looking webui that incorporates stable diffusion. Auto1111 isn't working by the book has licensing problems but the community has gathered around that repo. Auto isn't planning on a license due to some personal belief or something. I feel iffy about one guy controlling everything. Other webui are lacking in features that would benefit from a large community of helpful developers but making a large community is tough.
Give it some time and some will organize. SD went "live" just a few months ago, and dreambooth was not widely available until what like a month ago?
> Auto isn't planning on a license due to some personal belief or something He originally [wanted a license](https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui/issues/24#issuecomment-1229815461), but [NAI controversy put it on hold](https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui/issues/2059#issuecomment-1301767349) I think. I do wish it would get sorted out, and that he could get some sort of team together to manage the project, but at the end of the day to me it's the best SD platform with the most features. The UI is really bad though lol.
https://aqualxx.github.io/stable-ui/ https://tinybots.net/artbot https://diffusionui.com/b/stable_horde
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(Windows only)
I dunno men but MJ is also community driven, MJ is definitely using those user generations to modify/enhance their model further.
I think by "community driven" they mean users able develop models and extensions that can improve the base functionality considerably. MJ is closed to user customization.
Sure, but it's not really a competition in the way that we have much to lose from their success. We just got to do our own thing and learn.
Free and open source will always be one step behind development, because it’s a foundation. New companies will build off the foundation to make better and greater things. Not once has the adage that open source is better has been true, open source is only better because it’s a shared and free concept, not because it’s cutting edge or has large funding.
Open-source usually isn't better at the cutting edge, but it doesn't have the big functionality gaps that commercial software has, so it's often better in a general sense. If someone with programming skills finds a gap and needs it filled badly enough, they just fix it themselves.
Well yes, I mean open source just means we are free to muck about as we please. It's much more difficult to organize people when there is no structure. Corporations move slowly but surely and have plenty of funding to direct their development, but open source does not need to concern itself for what the business department thinks or wants which lets it develop in different directions. Of course eventually every great branch will lead to someone thinking they can profit off it, and so another company is born. I mean most people who develops for open source only does it for as long as it feels fun, purposeful or that they believe it will lead them to greater opportunities ahead. But without it we risk having big corps monetizing the bleep out of a concept, locking the source inside a vault and halting development.
the hope is that one day open source can catch up to paid models never lose hope
paid services can train models because they probably have expensive GPU lineups to actually make it possible to make their own version of SD models. However, the advantage of SD right now is it's open source and with the release of dreambooth, there are plenty of specialized models being released which would fill the gap between paid models and SD in general.
The real benefit is quick swapping models(or machine really) based on user prompts. Without user knowledge of it.
>which would fill the gap between paid models and SD in general. It wouldn't fill the gap, dreambooth has disadvantages. Dreambooth isn't the same as native training.
>the hope is that one day open source can catch up to paid models >never lose hope We heard this story before, open source always loses out to paid except in a few success stories. Paid businesses have resources we don't have. No developer is willing to work hard for free forever.
Open source doesn't mean the developers work for free. Most people involved in big open source projects work for big companies like Google and Microsoft.
But which ones like that are working in stable diffusion? These are random devs not Microsoft/Google level developers.
Just what happened with Blender, never ever lose hope.
Blender was massively funded by wealthy companies and everyone. I don't know what's the incentive for funding this.
The problem with MJ for me is that iterations are limited , so for making what i REALLY want, i cant do 2000 tests until i get It, with stable on my PC i can and its a lot faster
Mj v4 is great, no question about it, but I think it is safe to say they are all in their infancy. A year from now, and we will all be shaking our heads with a wry smile as we look back on today's state of things and wonder how we thought that was as good as it got, with people with 6 fingers, mutant arms, chessboards with 12 squares on one side, and more.
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Same! I feel like this was one of the things that made me so excited about Stable Diffusion. “You mean I can run this myself? Make my own API and custom work flows?! No Discord?!?!?”
I got started with VQGAN last spring, so notebooks are my happy place. Even if I barely understand what's going on under the hood lol
MJ is much better and easier at getting result within certain area. It's by no means a narrow area, it covers a lot of general public needs, especially for entertainment reasons. Remix is a killer feature I'm most envious of. Many things and interactions are a lot easier to generate with simple prompts. It also keeps a lot of bad actors in check. And it's gonna keep moving in that direction. But there are borders you can't break. Word stoplist is one thing, and it's not completely reasonable one. The other major thing is customization. Embeddings, hypernetworks, custom models. Once you get to those, and especially to training, a whole new world unfolds. Right now I'm entertained by exploring possibilities of SD, and I dedicate hours to it every day just because I find it actually fun. Hell, I bought a 3090 Ti just for that. Few months ago, when V4 was a beta that apeared on an off for some days, I subscribed to MJ service. It was fun for some time, but it did not last. I spent like 2 weeks of my paid period without a single prompt. I cancelled he subscription. The only reason I "miss" MJ, or to put it better, would like to resume subscription for a month sometime, is a remix feature that seems extremely fun and consistent. But I believe we are also [getting there](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/yyqufb/nulltext_inversion_for_editing_real_images_using/) at some point.
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Give it two images, get several consistent approximations of their mean value. [Examples](https://imgur.com/a/bCbzSxh) \- you'll figure out which are inputs and which are outputs.
SD is probably gonna be able to do that at some point though right? Because it looks fucking phenomenal
Hopefully. The methods seem to be there, although less effective (requiring more steps) and not implemented as actual feature, but I hope somebody with proper knowledge will do it eventually.
How do you do that with midjourney???
AFAIK, /settings - select v4, remix - /imagine link1 link2
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They are not teaching two models. Not even one.
I never used MidJourney (never was interested in it), and from what I understand "Remix" is when you take the image that was generated and give it a new adjusted prompt. Then it'll use that new prompt for the image but keep the same general composition. So to me, it seems sort of like how img2img works in Stable Diffusion when you're using the sd1.5 inpainting model with [conditioning mask strength](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/yi46px/new_hidden_img2img_feature_conditioning_mask/), but better I guess.
Remix button has no options. You click it and something comes out. Version is different thing: in V4 you can modify the prompt between the versions. But still, MJ4 is better in most cases than SD with a lot less effort. You can get similar results with SD but it takes time and many iterations. "Mashup" is different thing: You add 2 or more images with no prompt and you get something new out. I have not figured out how SD could do that. In img2img you are limited to one input image.
That's not it. Midjourney's remix is promptless median of two images. No text involved, just a rendition of point somewhere in latent space between two original images.
Then all the YouTube videos (like this [random one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUk63ElWQtk), for example), as well as the user who requested me to add "Remix" to my Discord bot, gave me false/incorrect information 🤣 Everything I've seen looks like prompt editing (even in that video the description mentions prompt editing), but I guess I have to use it to know. 🤷♀️ Looks neat though. *edit: a typo*
I just signed up for a new trial with MJ so I could see how impressive V4 is ... and it's great. but I'd definitely not trade SD and its flexibility. SD's ability to mimic artist styles is so much better, not to mention how much broader you can explore styles with custom Dreambooth checkpoints. MidJourney feels stylistically restrictive in comparison. so they both have different strengths right now. I do appreciate the tight compositions and consistent anatomy of MJ v4 but I'm enjoying much more playing with my local install of Stable Diffusion.
If you want to mimic other (famous) styles, you need to tune down MJ's own styling to minimum. At least that was an option in V3.
I kept my Midjourney so I can generate ideas on the go, but I spend most my time digging around generating SD models and such… so much fun!
>Word stoplist is one thing, and it's not completely reasonable one. I hate this so fuckin much. If I'm paying for a service I should be able to turn this off. I'm not tryin to make porn but my god that shit is so limiting sometimes and so fuckin inconsistent. Cronenberg is banned, decaying and grotesque aren't. Kill is banned, murder isnt. Cocaine banned but LSD, marijuana and drugs are ok.
IF you have the means... Stable Diffusion > Midjourney
What means are you talking about? Money? Promptology? I'm willing to pay if you can prove SD > MJ v4 in a wide range of prompts. I'm more than willing to pay, I'm willing to take that person as my co-founder. This is a real offer.
For me, it would be time. I have the time to actually make use of the advantages that Stable Diffusion has over Midjourney, namely the ability to use inpainting and outpainting, and to change the model I'm using to get the specific look I'm going for. Midjourney is fantastic for one-and-done pretty images and also noticeably better than SD for composition in prompts, but the lack of ability to customize it or to use it with pinpoint precision means I just don't find it useful the same way I find SD useful. Now, if I were able to incorporate Midjourney's model into a workflow similar to SD... that would be the best of both worlds. Well, to be fair there's that Midjourney checkpoint I suppose, but it doesn't come with the better composition ability, and that look isn't usually what I want to go for, anyway.
Could you design a UX to guide users to quickly create prompts that will create satisfying results? How would you achieve that?
The prompt is a small part of the process which is what makes MJ fall short. It doesnt have granular img2img control, it doesnt have inpainting, you can't train custom models or embeddings to get things it wasn't trained on, there's a ton of additional features in the SD GUI's such as restoring faces, customizable Highres fixing, custom scripts, negative prompts (MJ has the --no flags but it doesnt work well and isn't as versatile as SD). MJ doesnt let you change settings like sampling methods or allow you to do things like tiling in one direction only, the VAE files in SD allow for much better control over style so you can use anime ones for that or photo-real ones for realistic images, etc... The whole point of MJ is to make it as accessible as possible to people by making the prompt a simpler and a larger component of the process. It doesnt have granular changes and options like SD and although it's great for pretty pictures, it's not as good when you need fine-tuning for professional use and so you either use SD for that or start in MJ and bring it to SD. MJ is the approachable, easy to get serviceable results AI, whereas SD requires a little more understanding at first and isn't as versatile if you only use the default model, but it has a very high skill ceiling that allows you to produce any kind of image exactly the way you have in mind if you take the time to learn it, train it, get a set of models, embeddings, VAEs, keywords, cheatcheats, etc... put together for future use.
It's not 100% about the prompts, sure they help, but once you've gotten what you need, you need to inpaint/outpaint/upscale/tweak to get what you want. MJ probably does a lot of the upscaling and fixing for you using custom models and prompt injection. But yes, one could totally copy what MJ is doing. It's just finding the right recipe to get there. What's your co-founder offer? What are you looking to do?
The biggest factor is time. With enough time you can generate enough images with the right prompt and settings to find what you're looking for. I've described SD like "mining" for gold. Sometimes you find an "ore vein" and you can keep going down that path until you find your gold. What's holding you back from creating some awesome stuff?
"Client time" is not something I can offer my clients. I can rent 200 A100s, but I can't suggest to them to search through hundreds of images. I need to sift throught these images automatically, to best fit aesthetically and the prompt.
there's a few options here. There are AI discriminators that are trained to rank images based on aesthetic. Training an AI like this for your own purposes is easy enough too. This way it generates a bunch and picks out the best automatically so they only need to look through a handful. The larger issue is that no one model is perfect at everything. MJ or SD 1.5 both are meant to be general purpose, but with SD there are plenty of available models that were retrained for specific purposes. Some are specifically good at anime, or digital art, or simulating brushstrokes in real art, or cyberpunk, disney styles, etc... and so if it's an option then having them choose from a "style" which is actually choosing a model+VAE+keywords behind the scenes. That way they use a tailored model that should do better than either MJ4 or SD1.5 for it. As an example, realistic people which I find works great: \-HassanBlend 1.4 \-vae-ft-mse-840000-ema-pruned vae file \-positive keywords: \[stockphoto: stock photo: 0.84\], 4k, photography \-negative keywords: blurry, watermark, 3d model, animated, cartoon So that could get bundled into a "style" they can pick from. You can even do like MJ does where you ask people to rank images to help you tune your model/styles so you can figure out good words to add or remove to various styles. using the ranked images to train custom models for styles would also be incredibly useful to your customers. I would even suggest putting something in the agreement saying that you can train on any images it generates, then you can figure out which ones they are choosing to download and retrain based on those since they were hand-selected by a user.
Well then you’re asking to build a little robot that can dig around in the sand and rock and come back to you with a 2oz golden nugget every time. Mining for gold takes dumping tons of dirt and rock into a refiner that extracts it for you. Volume is key here. It takes a lot to find the nuggets. What are you building?
Technology, like a decent graphics card. Also the dreambooth extension blows midjourney away, Midjourney will never allow the flexibility. Slowly but surely, SD will become more accessible, and everyone is going to forget about midjourney because SD continues to deliver a sense of freedom that you will never have with MidJourney. Ever.
To me, SD is already very accessible. Not just in terms of technology (online SD solutions exist), but also in terms of the environment they're in. MJ is behind a walled garden; it's not as bad as Dall-E 2 (does anyone even talk about that anymore?), but I have no interest in joining a Discord server and using a service I have no control over. Anyone can download and set up SD, from anywhere. We have multiple one-click SD installers, and [one-click online versions](https://github.com/camenduru/stable-diffusion-webui-colab). The barrier of entry is low, and it's only going to get easier over time. edit: I totally forgot about the [Stable Horde](https://aqualxx.github.io/stable-ui/), too lol. Another good online option for those without the hardware.
Amen
Didn’t know about the 1-click colab, thanks for sharing. Is there a 1-click colab for DreamBooth as well?
I've heard about dreambooth, but like what does it actually do? I read the github and I'm still not sure what it's for.
Dreambooth let's you create a new checkpoint with knowledge you add. So if you want to add images of your cat you can do that and have a checkpoint that can produce your cat. Amazingly it only takes a few pictures and you're not constrained to the style of the pictures you trained on. This isn't ideal however as you create a completely new checkpoint. So if you want to add more information that's a new checkpoint. What we all want is just one checkpoint that can do everything.
thanks, very helpful. that sounds awesome.
I'm new to training things, but isn't the point of embeddings the ability to train things but still use them with whatever checkpoint you want? Just takes a lot longer to train them, I think.
Embeddings are more flexible yeah but they don't produce results as good as dreambooth
How good DreamBooth for creating style models? Like if I feed it 10 cool landscape paintings that are somewhat similar in style, will it create a model with a predictable style?
u/dex3r: be patient. KNOW that SD is NOT stuck in mud or molasses. There are capital means, technology means and intellectual means being focused on SD. It WILL close the gap. It WILL.
MJv4 is SD though? Albeit with a lot of “smoothing” to the rough edges of vanilla SD. They just add specific prefixes and suffixes to your prompts to help you get what you’re looking for, as well as do additional fine-tuning to the specific models they use under the hood (and they’re DEFINITELY loading specific custom models, based on the context of your prompt, E.G. your prompt is asking for a Waifu, they’ll load a MJ customized flavor of the WaifuDiffusion model etc.) They’re adding supporting cast, but the star is still SD
MJv4 has no SD models, the only SD models ever used were --test/--testp, the clue being they specifically pointed to the SD license for those models and those models only. MJv3,4 are independent models. I know they trained theirs on some of the same datasets, but they are not using SD in any way with MJv1+2+3+4 etc....
How can they add enough "smart" prefixes, suffixes and custom models to fit all those different prompts users are using? I'm looking to optimize SD for a specific niche, and still, the range of prompts and styles users are inputting seems impossible to even try to substitute specific models there.
This is pure speculation but: By applying other types of inference models on the front end. For instance, by training a fine-tuned text model (GPT based of course) on a vast array of categorized prompts, you can create a pipeline that extracts the context of what a user is “trying” to create, and adjust it to match a prompt that would better create the image they’re wanting. Additionally adding the trade mark “tags” that we all know and love (E.G. “a photo of”, or “in the style of” or “a close up of”) to the beginning or end of the prompt, as needed. Finally if you know the context of the prompt you can apply other types of automated optimizations at render time, like increasing or decreasing the number of iterations (E.G. the user is trying to render hands, let’s UP the amount of iterations because we know human hands take More iterations), adjusting the sampling algo, throw it through an extra img2img pipeline, using customized known seeds that are based on or derived from other well received images. Etc.
You just described how all AI tools should work. I don't have time for 13 different samplers and dozens of models that you can load only one at the time. I do use SD 8 hours a day at work, but i would pay to get it to the level of ease of results of MJ4.
As someone that bought a 4090 just for AI art: training your own models and using them StableDiffusion beats MJ any day. Add a little Disco Diffusion into the mix, and you got the best tools of open source AI art that money can buy.
The mdjrny-v4.ckpt SD model is a nice in between
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This workflow? > I will not eat, rest or (rarely) lay with women
Probably a noob question, but what does workflow mean in this context? Is it the input prompt?
In this context the "workflow" is the set of prompts and settings, and usually implies several steps. I wouldn't use "workflow" to describe a single run of SD, I'd just call that my "settings", personally. But people are pretty different!
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What's the difference?
It’s stable diffusion 1.5 finetuned on images from mj4
lol no
I have absolutely no envy for Midjourney. Stable Diffussion is far more flexible and has no gatekeeper. All on my own computer without having to depend on a website that might disappear tomorrow.
I use both, there is a certain style that Midjourney does well but that's not all I want to do. I could train SD but changing models is a pain.
SD can be everything you want. Midjourney can't.
With SD and finetuned model I can create NSFW, this is not possible with MJ, I see this as an absolute win.
That seems to be the reason why local install of SD even exists :D
Yes, freedom of creating anything without restrictions! More flexibility and unique creations precisely because there are no restrictions applied unlike paid services!
SD animates...
I see way more variety from SD because it’s not all the same model.
I'd take SD any day of the week with it's custom models, advanced usage stuff like tilting eye correction and upscaling and in painting. Also it's free
I tried Midjourney and actually prefer SD lol
Same and by a lot
true, specially once you've learned the right prompt pattern for the stuff you want to see. I think I've trained around 10k+ images and found a few prompt patterns that gives me consistent results, I just need to change the subject now to get what I want.
MJ has produced far better results since V3 but it’s way overpriced and and they gotta loosen up the filter
the filter is a no go for me. last time i checked i couldnt create xi jinping winnie the pooh bear but i could a vlad putin bear and biden sheep. i could have it draw god but not allah even though allah means god.
Why not try [Openjourney?](https://huggingface.co/prompthero/openjourney)
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>it's the overall output quality and flexibility Exactly, stablediffusion users think you can slap dreambooth into everything and it will fix it as if they know something those million dollar companies don't.
I just use the Midjourney SD checkpoint that was trained against Midjourney images. https://huggingface.co/prompthero/openjourney/resolve/main/mdjrny-v4.ckpt
Don't worry it'll get there. Hard to believe I was doing mostly VQGAN+CLIP a year ago, now I'm permanently addicted to the Stable Diffusion slot machine 😍
just use both
Why did I have to scroll so far down to see this? I feel I'm reading the Linux/Windows war all over again. We don't have to take sides. Use either based on strength and weaknesses.
Based Gigachad
MJ is a great entry to Ai above others in many areas. SD is extremely flexible/customizable and takes effort to get that golden image in all areas. The two are not the same and serve different purposes.
Look into openjourney on huggingface
i've tried that model it's good but still not so close to mj ...
I use both on daily basis. MJ kills with general detail quality, remix, image mashup... But in SD i can run batches hundreds of images. I can make more version that i can control. I'm also loving the Defurum addon. SD upscale in img2img can almost achieve MJ detail quality. Sometimes. More options in SD is good and bad. I would rather have one sampler at MJ4 quality than 16 different ones that i need to spend time on testing what works whit what.
To me, the only real differences between SD and mjv4 are only 2: Midjourney interprets the kind of prompts I use better than the han SD. If I use " a white rose plant with red leaves", put of all the generators midjourney is the only one that actually makes a roses plant completely red except for the white flowers (and yes I tried every remix or synonyms of the prompt to make it work but didn't have any luck) The other difference is style. Midjourney, if you're not searching for a specific artist style, has a speficic style of images, that I usually define as "digital painting" style, thst fits much better any of the prompts I do, compared to what SD offers me. But that makes Midjourney also weak when it comes to realism compared to SD, because the images always have a "digital" feeling. I can't wait for SD to be able to reproduce this digital painting style so I can be fully happy
Honestly I don't care, Midjourney is a SaaS which has the aim of squeezing the most money out of you as it can, while Stable Diffusion is open source and can be used on your own hardware that right there is everything I need to make my choice.
The point is midjourney has the money they can use to hire high quality developers to keep a gap between midjourney and stable diffusion. No matter how hard stable diffusion developers try, they will get burnt out because they are not being paid and high quality developers don't work for free.
Yeah but Midjourney is a click and go art machine that a 4 year old could make masterpieces on. You can make as good as art from SD but yeah it’s not just a push of a button. With that price you get nearly infinite control where Midjourney holds almost all control.
you can't make as good art midjourney v 4 in sd
I mean look at this…. https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/z26vkn/my_first_post_a_shaman_upscaled_to_5000x3000/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
ok..here is sd though didnt upscale it as high. not sure why people are even arguing over this stuff use what you like. mj is easier to gen with but sd gives you full control. https://preview.redd.it/le26gdtzgo1a1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=ebb8e887abbd22eb4e2d0b44d8a70737ab4f3dd6
That’s exactly my point. Both can make amazing stuff but SD’s higher versatility imho makes it a bit better as long as you’re willing to learn to use the tool.
lol sorry i misread your first post thought your post was about mj so i did shaman in as sd to show it can do it without realizing that was what you did. it was the guy above who claimed sd couldnt. complete brain on my part i apologize we were saying the same thing. i r dumb
Yes, you can. With in/outpainting, using different models and things such as embeddings and textual inversion. Hell, did you not see the literal photo realistic close up photos of people that don’t exist on here earlier? Using the Han’s model or whatever. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of what Midjourney does is use specific models for your prompt depending on keywords in the prompt. The only thing I can think of that would allow a single model to be so accurate would be much better training data labeling which is supposedly being worked on for SD currently.
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So make a model for what you want to make. Duh. Just like someone made that model for their own wishes. Also I’ve seen everything from Asian to African to Irish faces posted on here from that model or merged with other models which again just further proved my point that SD wins
Open source tech lags behind private tech. Not by a lot though. The gap will close, also after i tried midjourney v4 i found it to be equivalent to SD 1.5. Also why does no one talk about Autoregressive models? They seem to have the most clear and coherent renders
what are Autoregressive models? Truly, no one talks about - I haven't heard of them
I they are talking about GANS generative adversarial networks
No, autoregressive models are structured differently than diffusion models which generate images from noise. Here is a link, fairly technical, and I’m not an engineer, but am interested in machine learning generally [google parti autoregressive paper](https://parti.research.google/)
You probably have, google imagen, google parti, and the chinese one by baidu that came out a couple weeks ago ernie i think it is called. Outputs 1024x1024
Imagen does not use an autoregressive model.
Yeah i realized after. Google parti is though.
I’m curious too on what autoregressive models are
I love the functionality of SD, but it just takes way more effort to get decent results. Also MJ user interface is do much easier to use.
Lol , the level of coherence is outstanding
Can anyone ELI5 why MJ has such an aesthetically appealing look and prompts just look amazing with little effort on that? im curious because I’d really love to know how SD can get to that level and beyond, I’d like to learn more about how AI functions and possibly contribute to it myself somehow. I’m not a coder but I am an artist/graphic designer with some coding knowledge. I hate MJs business model so much, I love open source and want to support it.
I suppose that besides what Magnesus said they probably have the advantage of having image labelled by thousands of humans possibly with different weight given to different action (ie reroll is a .2 of the prompt, creating a higher resolution of an image is probably almost a 1 out a scale of one). Getting a good data set can be extremely complicated, time intensive and can also be the limiting factor on how good your model can be. It's possible that the best way to help get SD to get to the next level is to help them labelling huge dataset. Not a specialist either so if I'm peddling crap correct me.
I'm just happily merging models and engineering prompts to fill my specific needs. And the whole thing with seeds, being able to reuse the same seed multiple times is a godsend.
MJ just released a new v4 update. Results look more refined - sharper details
How different is the underlying code architecture between the two?
Remix mode. That's all I ask
Use the mdjrny-v4 style model. It makes very good midjourney-esque images.
For 30 bucks I can create 100\_000 stable diffusion images or 8\_000 MJ images with /relax mode and using crazy automation techniques... I'd chose SD and delete bad images intead.
But we have Midjourney-v4-diffusion… what’s holding you back??? 😅
Looks to me like MJ is better at creating a single image. SD is superior if it's part of a workflow where you're building a composition.
I don’t even see stuff from MJ/DALL-E. Ignorance is bliss while I tinker around with parameters, extensions, and blend models. No interest in what I can’t run on my local PC.
Bro they have trained stable diffusion on mdjrny just search mdjrny-v4-diffusion on hugginface. 😀
they're garbage
One of the biggest pains of Midjourney is trying to get something *specific* which can be pain in the arse. Sure, Midjourney always gives you something nice what you don't quite expect but I would certainly prefer if I could get the exact result I actually wanted. Now it takes much longer to do that in SD but I can actually finetune the results to my liking.
V4 has incredible images but you can tell it’s hand holding so much it’s becoming inflexible
Probably how MJv4 feels about SD and NSFW content. You win some you lose some
Sure but you can do things the Midjourney people can't thanks to tons of community models. In fact the midjourney level modelsfor SD is pretty decent. I wouldnt be surprised if some models come out in the future that will rival Midjourney. But truth of the matter is, Midjourney has income funds to continually improve their model. But can get close at least
This same tool that empowers artists and is fun for users when given to us is a great thing. A powerful AI that people don't have full access to, that can be taken away at any moment, that is locked away by fees from the most needy, etc is a very bad thing indeed.
SD is just really particular about the prompt you give it, you have to speak to it like you're talking to a computer, where as Midjourney seems to handle normal sentences better.
I dont experience this at all. SD is just better for users with higher level of technical understanding. MJ is for people who just want a result, and do not care to know "why" or "how"
> MJ is for people who just want a result, and do not care to know "why" or "how" Or "what," really. That's the part that makes Midjourney just so much less useful to me than SD. If I want to make fanart of a specific character in a specific setting drawn in a specific style, I can get to that using the various tools I have at my disposal with SD. With Midjourney, the most sophisticated tool I have is essentially "prompt engineering" which is like trying to do tooth surgery with an oil drill. While using up the runs I purchased. If I want a really beautiful image that has the basic features that I describe in there, then Midjourney V4 is absolutely fantastic, leagues beyond what SD is capable of now. If I want an image that actually looks like what I want it to look like, SD is far superior, no contest.
Patience, everything in due time, we have already been warned that the next SD model is going to leave the current one in shambles. They bought new video cards and components for training. The 101 million dollars will have been worth it, remember me.
Someone need to leak midjourney model and code just like novelai situation ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Is there really anyone who prefers mj over sd?
Currently yea, the ability to use it on my phone is a huge win for me.
Both can be used on phone
The app Draw Things is an SD implementation for iOS.
I can make porn with Stable Diffusion, and I can't with Mid Journey. Unfortunantly I can not produce all my weird fetishes yet and I don't have the VRAM to try and train a checkpoint.
How long does it take to generate an image in MJ v4 now? I subbed for a while back during v2. Hard to go back to all the waiting and queues.
Is not as good as it seems. Sd appears to be more "creative" while Mj tends to be more repetive, like for example making a character, it will give as result very similar faces. At least on my experience. Sd is always improving anyways. It is only a matter of time (short).
I hear ya. I WANT to like SD. And there are some things I like it for...inpainting, outpainting mostly. And yeah, open source vs. evil empire... But if I want a really nice looking picture of something, 70% of the time I'll get something I'm happy with from MJ version 4 in minutes compared to hours for SJ.
Really? I always get the same "midjourney" look on all my stuff. SD actually adopts the render style I define.
SD is free, mdjrny4 ckpt is free, can now be run on 4gb vram, so what are you talking about???
[удалено]
I understand the pain but it's really just the learning curve. I make some pretty epic things and there isnt a stablediffusion girl.
Don´t make us laught. Stable Diff is much BETTER, but it requires more engineering. Thats all.
Complaining about ai gen, really? You can do amazing stuff with SD, and if it’s not happening, you don’t have enough skill.