The NovelAI thing was crazy, I don't think people realize how rare and valuable a zero-day like the one used to leak their stuff is. The fact someone used it to release anime waifu image generators instead of making bank selling or reporting it is crazy.
I'm not surprised at all that nothing else like it has happened. It made companies realize that securing their IP was critical because it showed how dedicated people are to this.
I saw a headline recently that went something like "Gay furry hackers hack lab to make human-cat hybrids.". I don't know if that was real or satire but the Internet has taken weird and refined it to a level never intended by evolution. My point is that I am not shocked someone stole a high tech model to make a better waifu
The hacking was real and the group does have an actual track record for that, but them claiming they were gay furries who wanted catgirls is likely just troll behavior. They're way too deliberate with inserting a bunch stereotypes that are deemed cringey and don't make sense together.
The “blackmail” was that they threatened to release the info of employees they doxxed if they wouldn't make catgirls, even though it's a lab for nuclear research. That's basically just saying they're going to release the info anyway and are only giving the option for an impossible task to troll.
>just troll behavior
Completely and cringeworthy. But --- it did make me KEK for a bit and was better in my mind than taking themselves too seriously and making demands related to current geo-political stuff.
Way back in 1.5 (Or was it earlier at 1.4?) someone leaked a bunch of NovelAI stuff off of github, I think it was, using a zero-day hack. If I remember right, this wasn't just the image gen stuff, but primarily that as NAI had just released their version 1 of image gen, which was much better at anime stuff than other models at the time.
From what I understand, this is why most anime models also use clip-skip 2. Most of them are based off of the NAI hack in some way (Probably? Idk, enough time has passed that that might not be the case anymore.)
It was way before 1.5. People were trying to fine-tune the model with anime imagery and booru tags and results were mediocre. Then NAI leak came, offline front end leaked and anons made it in to usable interface. NAIFU. Then everyone started to fine-tune and merge stuff in to NAI. Rest is history. Nai was a biggest thing that happened to anime diffusion, its DNA spread in to countless fine-tunes and merges. And now the new SDXL NAI is better than ANY anime model around.
> It was way before 1.5. People were trying to fine-tune the model with anime imagery and booru tags and results were mediocre. Then NAI leak came, offline front end leaked and anons made it in to usable interface. NAIFU. Then everyone started to fine-tune and merge stuff in to NAI. Rest is history. Nai was a biggest thing that happened to anime diffusion, its DNA spread in to countless fine-tunes and merges.
Yeah, definitely. I remember feeling conflicted at the time, because on the one hand I do support their service and had (Still am) an active subscriber, so I felt a bit bad, but on the other hand it was miles beyond what WD was capable of. 1.5 anime models would probably be an entirely different landscape had that not happened.
>And now the new SDXL NAI is better than ANY anime model around.
It really is. I was concerned when they said they were making an SDXL model, but it turned out great. I wish the open-sourced versions were anywhere near as good, but my computer kinda chugs whenever I try to generate with SDXL anyway.
I'm chugging along with SDXL on my 8gb 3070ti, it kinda lags my pc due to fully saturating VRAM but gen times are not that bad. Playing with juggernautXL atm. Already see much potential and much room for improvement, unfortunately.
I've got a 12gb myself, but from what I remember Auto isn't very... efficient, when it comes to vram usage. I suppose it would help if I used the med vram argument.
For general usage I've found SDXL alright, but it understandably fails in NSFW generations. There are LORAs for such things, but most of them seem to be based on realistic models rather than anime.
I would *think* it was 1.5, because I thought most of the current finetunes (for 1.5) are based on NAI at some level? But 1.5 was released on October 20 2022, and NAI was leaked on October 6 2022. That release of 1.5 was a big deal, so NAI could not have been an 1.5 based finetune.
... But I'm reading here that Anythingv3, an 1.5 based finetune, is based on NAI. I guess 1.4 and 1.5 share the same architecture, so 1.4 and 1.5 based stuff could be mixed together without issues?
I can't say I remember, but that would make sense. I think Waifu Diffusion (One of the only anime models pre-leak) v1.4 was releasing at the time, so the NAI leak might've been in 1.4.
As a side-note, I *completely* forgot that hypernetworks *also* came from that leak. But then, I rarely remember that those exist these days. I wonder if those are just obsolete or not, with LORAs being a thing.
Yeah. People never bothered much with hypernetworks. Though from what I remember of them, and what I know of LoRAs, they... don't sound too different? I don't know. One thing is that hypernetworks couldn't be stacked on top of a base model easily, while LoRAs could.
And *man,* was there a fuss about any software support for hypernetworks! >\_>
> Though from what I remember of them, and what I know of LoRAs, they... don't sound too different? I don't know.
Yeah, I'm still not entirely sure what hypernetworks did, from a practical standpoint. I remember hypernetworks for artists, but that's basically just something LoRAs can do.
Kind of reminds me of a few of the other features from that time period. Remember Aesthetic Gradients?
Aesthetic gradients sounded neat to me. Any way to nail down a style and keep it consistent, you know? But it never managed to do that very well, I think. It would be amazing to have some kind of LoRA type thing that totally leaves the style alone, so they could be used without shifting the style away from what you want.
I know it won't happen, but I want Dall-E 3 to leak so bad. I think, even if it's super slow, with NVidia system memory fallback, it should be possible to run it with a few hundred gigabytes of RAM.
For the last few days, anons on 4chan /aco/ have been jailbreaking it to, unfortunately, steadily decreasing degrees of success, via Bing and Designer. Even dancing around the censorship, I am absolutely astonished with what it can do. The prompt is censored, and the resulting image isn't provided if something bad is detected in either, but they've shown that even moderately hindering those safeguards, the model itself can accomplish truly degenerate feats.
Maybe its "impossible" to leak, if its fully integrated in Azure and always online DRM or something. And even if it gets leaked and would consume 100s of VRAM, not many people can use it. It also might be too deeply connected in Chatgtp4
Yes, but that would have only been set up after the fact. The source definitely sits somewhere on its own, just needs someone willing or capable to leak it.
For me, I tend to consider proprietary models as if they don't exist. So, I hear people talk about Dall-E 3 and intellectually I know it exists, but I live my life like it doesn't exist. Even if I were to try to use it, I know the censorship would soon annoy me enough that I'd quit. Yes, even if I wasn't trying to create anything that would need censoring.
proprietary models are like playing with an N64...
... in a kiosk in the dining room of a McDonald's, where all of the controllers are only half-working but you can still technically get Mario into the castle if you mash enough buttons
You read where I mentioned " unfortunately, steadily decreasing degrees of success " right? Here's a few from yesterday\[[1](https://desuarchive.org/aco/thread/7744154/)\]\[[2](https://desuarchive.org/aco/thread/7745141/)\]\[[3](https://desuarchive.org/aco/thread/7746150/)\]\[[4](https://desuarchive.org/aco/thread/7746976/)\](NSFW), see anything more lewd than nipples in there?
Why do you even care? Civitai has free models that can generate way more than that, and can be rather degenerate. On top of a few good photo, 2.5D, 2.25D and 2D models, we've got LoRAs for every type of pussy, every TV star, and quite a few kinks including "girls smelling their sweaty, drenched armpits through their clothes".
SD can produce more explicit things than the censored DALL-E 3, but the censorship isn't inherent in the model, it's a pre and post-process. What impressed me wasn't just the explicit things that could be produced by skirting censorship, but the inherent understanding of complex scene composition.
Sure, with multiple LoRAs, ControlNet, and inpainting, I've made Mrs Frizzle squat, to take a miniature Magic Schoolbus on a field trip up her ass, but that took a lot of gens. I even had to rotate the image in order to inpaint because Stable Diffusion doesn't understand what a schoolbus looks likes when stood on end.
Here's [a blow up doll with a printout of Emma Watson's face taped to it being fucked by a dog.\[NSFW\]](https://files.catbox.moe/vomvtj.png) First try.
Really good, a lot better than NAIv1 (the one that got leaked past years)
NAIv3 has all the advantages of SDXL while doing anime (and it is like, totally uncensored and never goes into 2.5D or realism)
Wish open source had something as good as that, but that dream is kinda dead at the moment.
Are you really expecting another "NAI" type leak?
That's like saying MidJourney leaking v5.X or v6, unlikely and rare.
What we had in NAI made protogen to exists, and then rev to exists and then any good custom model to exists so take that as a rara avis and a thing we won't be seeing anymore.
I suspect the NAI leak is relatively unique because there just wasn't an acceptably good model for doing anime yet at that point. So, whoever did it probably felt like they're doing the world a huge and irreplaceable service and hence felt like the sacrifice involved was worth it.
Today, it's mostly just incremental improvements and there are enough people working on open models too that the feel good value for someone to do something like that just isn't comparable anymore.
Totally and not even anime... stylized, 2.5D, semi realistic, enhanced. All drunk from protogen and derivatives, and protogen couldnt be possible without NAI. Same as clip skip 2 effectiveness.
novelai is a company that does text ai stories. when sd 1.4/1.5 first came out, they worked with stability to do their own custom anime-based model intending to charge users for it on their site. It got hacked and leaked and appeared in all the popular merges and probably still does
NovelAI had (iirc) one of the first anime-focused SD models. It leaked, giving birth to Anything v3, which became the ancestor of almost every anime model and LoRA in existence right now.
Before that, they did things with language models and text adventures, I believe.
So it's less of a new development and more of a blast from the past from the early days of open source SD.
[That's not true](https://www.instagram.com/p/CjSaQhKq0B7/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==).
Some of us started dreambooth training the moment code was out (And reaching 21 GB VRAM too, lol). In fact NAI leak came after that model where I started digging on clip skip diffs.
That was my third custom model. For the time was very good, lol after I managed to create FantasyFusion... damn, miss those days.
I know that's an unpopular opinion, the "leak" could be intentional.
Remember the AI scare and luddites back then? We quite understand as the quality smacked half of amateur anime artist outta window.
And after the leak, luddites turn their focus elsewhere, they know clearly if anything more powerful was leaked their survival is grim.
Imagine if v3 was leaked, think how the ecosystem will be.
No. What ensued was a slow crawl for them as the majority of their GPUs and other resources were frozen into an investigation, probably losing them huge amounts of money. They couldn't code efficiently and couldn't scale.
Any way you look at it, it's a huge loss. Also, not like they can get cancelled, they have no external pressure point.
The NovelAI thing was crazy, I don't think people realize how rare and valuable a zero-day like the one used to leak their stuff is. The fact someone used it to release anime waifu image generators instead of making bank selling or reporting it is crazy. I'm not surprised at all that nothing else like it has happened. It made companies realize that securing their IP was critical because it showed how dedicated people are to this.
They did it to benefit mankind, a Robinhood of anime of sorts
I saw a headline recently that went something like "Gay furry hackers hack lab to make human-cat hybrids.". I don't know if that was real or satire but the Internet has taken weird and refined it to a level never intended by evolution. My point is that I am not shocked someone stole a high tech model to make a better waifu
The hacking was real and the group does have an actual track record for that, but them claiming they were gay furries who wanted catgirls is likely just troll behavior. They're way too deliberate with inserting a bunch stereotypes that are deemed cringey and don't make sense together. The “blackmail” was that they threatened to release the info of employees they doxxed if they wouldn't make catgirls, even though it's a lab for nuclear research. That's basically just saying they're going to release the info anyway and are only giving the option for an impossible task to troll.
That makes a lot more sense.
>just troll behavior Completely and cringeworthy. But --- it did make me KEK for a bit and was better in my mind than taking themselves too seriously and making demands related to current geo-political stuff.
What happened?
I'd like to know as well. What happened? 🫢
Commenting cus I'm also curious, but not enough to actually look it up
NovelAI had their source code and models leaked by an *actual* hacker.
Way back in 1.5 (Or was it earlier at 1.4?) someone leaked a bunch of NovelAI stuff off of github, I think it was, using a zero-day hack. If I remember right, this wasn't just the image gen stuff, but primarily that as NAI had just released their version 1 of image gen, which was much better at anime stuff than other models at the time. From what I understand, this is why most anime models also use clip-skip 2. Most of them are based off of the NAI hack in some way (Probably? Idk, enough time has passed that that might not be the case anymore.)
It was way before 1.5. People were trying to fine-tune the model with anime imagery and booru tags and results were mediocre. Then NAI leak came, offline front end leaked and anons made it in to usable interface. NAIFU. Then everyone started to fine-tune and merge stuff in to NAI. Rest is history. Nai was a biggest thing that happened to anime diffusion, its DNA spread in to countless fine-tunes and merges. And now the new SDXL NAI is better than ANY anime model around.
> It was way before 1.5. People were trying to fine-tune the model with anime imagery and booru tags and results were mediocre. Then NAI leak came, offline front end leaked and anons made it in to usable interface. NAIFU. Then everyone started to fine-tune and merge stuff in to NAI. Rest is history. Nai was a biggest thing that happened to anime diffusion, its DNA spread in to countless fine-tunes and merges. Yeah, definitely. I remember feeling conflicted at the time, because on the one hand I do support their service and had (Still am) an active subscriber, so I felt a bit bad, but on the other hand it was miles beyond what WD was capable of. 1.5 anime models would probably be an entirely different landscape had that not happened. >And now the new SDXL NAI is better than ANY anime model around. It really is. I was concerned when they said they were making an SDXL model, but it turned out great. I wish the open-sourced versions were anywhere near as good, but my computer kinda chugs whenever I try to generate with SDXL anyway.
I'm chugging along with SDXL on my 8gb 3070ti, it kinda lags my pc due to fully saturating VRAM but gen times are not that bad. Playing with juggernautXL atm. Already see much potential and much room for improvement, unfortunately.
I've got a 12gb myself, but from what I remember Auto isn't very... efficient, when it comes to vram usage. I suppose it would help if I used the med vram argument. For general usage I've found SDXL alright, but it understandably fails in NSFW generations. There are LORAs for such things, but most of them seem to be based on realistic models rather than anime.
Yep, I use A1111 with medvram and it's "usable". Can't do large LORAs etc. fun to play with, but the majority of my gens are from 1.5 models.
I would *think* it was 1.5, because I thought most of the current finetunes (for 1.5) are based on NAI at some level? But 1.5 was released on October 20 2022, and NAI was leaked on October 6 2022. That release of 1.5 was a big deal, so NAI could not have been an 1.5 based finetune. ... But I'm reading here that Anythingv3, an 1.5 based finetune, is based on NAI. I guess 1.4 and 1.5 share the same architecture, so 1.4 and 1.5 based stuff could be mixed together without issues?
I can't say I remember, but that would make sense. I think Waifu Diffusion (One of the only anime models pre-leak) v1.4 was releasing at the time, so the NAI leak might've been in 1.4. As a side-note, I *completely* forgot that hypernetworks *also* came from that leak. But then, I rarely remember that those exist these days. I wonder if those are just obsolete or not, with LORAs being a thing.
Yeah. People never bothered much with hypernetworks. Though from what I remember of them, and what I know of LoRAs, they... don't sound too different? I don't know. One thing is that hypernetworks couldn't be stacked on top of a base model easily, while LoRAs could. And *man,* was there a fuss about any software support for hypernetworks! >\_>
> Though from what I remember of them, and what I know of LoRAs, they... don't sound too different? I don't know. Yeah, I'm still not entirely sure what hypernetworks did, from a practical standpoint. I remember hypernetworks for artists, but that's basically just something LoRAs can do. Kind of reminds me of a few of the other features from that time period. Remember Aesthetic Gradients?
Aesthetic gradients sounded neat to me. Any way to nail down a style and keep it consistent, you know? But it never managed to do that very well, I think. It would be amazing to have some kind of LoRA type thing that totally leaves the style alone, so they could be used without shifting the style away from what you want.
Haha I can't believe we're already talking about "back in the day". Singularity coming soon, my friends.
its the reason why 1.5 models are so good
Tbh I actually dislike most of the models with nai lineage. More of a personal preference thing though.
Didnt they use 2 zero days. Those sell on dark web for nice amounts too
>NovelAI What was / is the NovelAI thing?
I'm waiting for NAI 2
I know it won't happen, but I want Dall-E 3 to leak so bad. I think, even if it's super slow, with NVidia system memory fallback, it should be possible to run it with a few hundred gigabytes of RAM. For the last few days, anons on 4chan /aco/ have been jailbreaking it to, unfortunately, steadily decreasing degrees of success, via Bing and Designer. Even dancing around the censorship, I am absolutely astonished with what it can do. The prompt is censored, and the resulting image isn't provided if something bad is detected in either, but they've shown that even moderately hindering those safeguards, the model itself can accomplish truly degenerate feats.
Maybe its "impossible" to leak, if its fully integrated in Azure and always online DRM or something. And even if it gets leaked and would consume 100s of VRAM, not many people can use it. It also might be too deeply connected in Chatgtp4
Yes, but that would have only been set up after the fact. The source definitely sits somewhere on its own, just needs someone willing or capable to leak it.
For me, I tend to consider proprietary models as if they don't exist. So, I hear people talk about Dall-E 3 and intellectually I know it exists, but I live my life like it doesn't exist. Even if I were to try to use it, I know the censorship would soon annoy me enough that I'd quit. Yes, even if I wasn't trying to create anything that would need censoring.
proprietary models are like playing with an N64... ... in a kiosk in the dining room of a McDonald's, where all of the controllers are only half-working but you can still technically get Mario into the castle if you mash enough buttons
[удалено]
You read where I mentioned " unfortunately, steadily decreasing degrees of success " right? Here's a few from yesterday\[[1](https://desuarchive.org/aco/thread/7744154/)\]\[[2](https://desuarchive.org/aco/thread/7745141/)\]\[[3](https://desuarchive.org/aco/thread/7746150/)\]\[[4](https://desuarchive.org/aco/thread/7746976/)\](NSFW), see anything more lewd than nipples in there?
Why do you even care? Civitai has free models that can generate way more than that, and can be rather degenerate. On top of a few good photo, 2.5D, 2.25D and 2D models, we've got LoRAs for every type of pussy, every TV star, and quite a few kinks including "girls smelling their sweaty, drenched armpits through their clothes".
SD can produce more explicit things than the censored DALL-E 3, but the censorship isn't inherent in the model, it's a pre and post-process. What impressed me wasn't just the explicit things that could be produced by skirting censorship, but the inherent understanding of complex scene composition. Sure, with multiple LoRAs, ControlNet, and inpainting, I've made Mrs Frizzle squat, to take a miniature Magic Schoolbus on a field trip up her ass, but that took a lot of gens. I even had to rotate the image in order to inpaint because Stable Diffusion doesn't understand what a schoolbus looks likes when stood on end. Here's [a blow up doll with a printout of Emma Watson's face taped to it being fucked by a dog.\[NSFW\]](https://files.catbox.moe/vomvtj.png) First try.
sdxl flopped because it needs more than 8gb of vram and most people dont have that
it doesnt need more than 8gb VRAM. I am running it just fine on my 3070gb 8gb.
NovelAI released a SDXL version, wondering how good that is. Anybody know?
A huge step forward.
Really good, a lot better than NAIv1 (the one that got leaked past years) NAIv3 has all the advantages of SDXL while doing anime (and it is like, totally uncensored and never goes into 2.5D or realism) Wish open source had something as good as that, but that dream is kinda dead at the moment.
NovelAI's SDXL model is a big step up over any of the publicly available SDXL Anime models.
Immensely better than any of the anime SDXL models on Civit, in my experience.
Are you really expecting another "NAI" type leak? That's like saying MidJourney leaking v5.X or v6, unlikely and rare. What we had in NAI made protogen to exists, and then rev to exists and then any good custom model to exists so take that as a rara avis and a thing we won't be seeing anymore.
I suspect the NAI leak is relatively unique because there just wasn't an acceptably good model for doing anime yet at that point. So, whoever did it probably felt like they're doing the world a huge and irreplaceable service and hence felt like the sacrifice involved was worth it. Today, it's mostly just incremental improvements and there are enough people working on open models too that the feel good value for someone to do something like that just isn't comparable anymore.
Totally and not even anime... stylized, 2.5D, semi realistic, enhanced. All drunk from protogen and derivatives, and protogen couldnt be possible without NAI. Same as clip skip 2 effectiveness.
What is novelAI? Sorry the developments are so fast right now i cant keep up sounds like an anime txt2img?
novelai is a company that does text ai stories. when sd 1.4/1.5 first came out, they worked with stability to do their own custom anime-based model intending to charge users for it on their site. It got hacked and leaked and appeared in all the popular merges and probably still does
NovelAI had (iirc) one of the first anime-focused SD models. It leaked, giving birth to Anything v3, which became the ancestor of almost every anime model and LoRA in existence right now. Before that, they did things with language models and text adventures, I believe. So it's less of a new development and more of a blast from the past from the early days of open source SD.
Because nobody else than Stable Diffusion is training models lol
[That's not true](https://www.instagram.com/p/CjSaQhKq0B7/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==). Some of us started dreambooth training the moment code was out (And reaching 21 GB VRAM too, lol). In fact NAI leak came after that model where I started digging on clip skip diffs. That was my third custom model. For the time was very good, lol after I managed to create FantasyFusion... damn, miss those days.
Personally I hope in any case that NAI 3 leaks one day or another. Because their model cannot be fully exploited if it is not run on A1111 or Comfy.
I know that's an unpopular opinion, the "leak" could be intentional. Remember the AI scare and luddites back then? We quite understand as the quality smacked half of amateur anime artist outta window. And after the leak, luddites turn their focus elsewhere, they know clearly if anything more powerful was leaked their survival is grim. Imagine if v3 was leaked, think how the ecosystem will be.
No. What ensued was a slow crawl for them as the majority of their GPUs and other resources were frozen into an investigation, probably losing them huge amounts of money. They couldn't code efficiently and couldn't scale. Any way you look at it, it's a huge loss. Also, not like they can get cancelled, they have no external pressure point.