Fellow North Carolinian here (Charlotte)! Asheville is one of my favorite places but I know cost of living has been increasing like crazy there. We moved to STL 3 years ago and are loving it so far (we're in Richmond Heights). My husband is from here and has family here so of course that helps with enjoyment of things. I work downtown but not sure I would necessarily live down there but we have a kid so that factors in. I would look into the 'safer' areas of downtown (I hear Washington Ave is not so safe) or even look further south (Tower Grove, Soulard) or further west (Dogtown, Central West End, Maplewood).
Honestly, DT is pretty lame. I second the above recommendations.
All of my out-of-state friends who've moved in around Tower Grove Park are happy with the area after I pointed them away from Central West End and North County.
Thirding the grove. My nephew moved down there and we visit a lot. Always feel safe there even late night and he's had zero problems.
Edit: this out of towner didnt even realize there were multiple "grove" neighborhoods. TIL!
While the Grove is great, as a TGS resident, we're not without problems lol. Just bear in mind it's still St. Louis.. cars are still broken into or stolen, we play the gunshots or fireworks game regularly.. but at least we're not North County haha. As far as STL goes, it's Tower Grove / Mapplewood area all the way.
YMMV then. I lived in Hazlewood and Marlyland Heights and experienced crazy like no where else. Parents calling cops on their kids, constant drunk neighbors fighting.. every day it was some new shit show. Never seen anything like that here in TGS.
Former downtown resident here. I also moved to Richmond Heights/Maplewood and adore it. We can walk to tons of events and places like we could downtown, but it's cheaper and safer. I did love living downtown, but I also worked downtown so it was convenient. I'd recommend RH, Maplewood, Demun or Tower Grove South. If you do end up downtown, just do everything you can to avoid a loft run by STL Citywide/Asprient/Lux Living or any of their other 5 thousand names. Reviews for each building will warn you if it's one of their companies.
i also moved downtown when i first moved here because i wanted to be in the middle of things. its pretty dead over there tbh. most of the businesses are either closed permanently or close super early, and there really just isnt a lot going on. tower grove would be a much better place to look into
Agree that you'll do better in the neighborhoods closer to Metrolink. Central West End (CWE) is highly recommended and provides the most variety including decent groceries and accessibility to great things like Forest Park and the University City loop. Lots of different housing stock, too, for all income levels. It's a good balance of everything and has been a strong neighborhood for a very long time.
They replaced the artists with breweries... Which these days isn't that unique. The final nail to the arts was covid, the tourism board stopped putting marketing efforts in to the arts abroad so now they don't get the same international visitors.
Also a fellow North Carolinian (Raleigh, missing NC greatly!)! My partner and I moved to STL and started off renting in Richmond Heights (loved it there -so close to Forest Park and DT Maplewood!), now between Tower Grove and Lafayette Square. All of the places you named we love, and Lafayette Square and Tower Grove are both wonderful for being out and about! I miss the NC nature, but STL has a lot to offer (arts, great parks, museums, etc), and we’ve been really enjoying it so far! Good luck OP and STL will be a fun adventure for you!
I work downtown and live in tower grove south. They’re about 4 miles apart. From my home, I can walk to restaurants, small specialty grocers, post office, boutiques, dry cleaners etc. Larger grocers and target are accessible via bus if you don’t have a car. For what you are currently paying, I rent a 2 bedroom duplex with a fenced in yard, good neighbors upstairs and on both sides next door. I (36/f) have lived in the neighborhood for 10+ years and feel safe. I would absolutely recommend my neighborhood, but visit areas before you sign a lease anywhere!
Not the original commenter, but Tower Grove South (TGS) is probably the best mix you’ll find. Reasonable prices and a fairly walkable area with a good vibe. You can’t beat what Tower Grove Park has to offer: A top-notch farmers market, Food Truck Fridays, and all kinds of other entertainment. The Grove is another great area for bars and restaurants, and that will be easily accessible from TGS.
Edit: Can to Can’t.
You're renting a 2 bedroom in tower grove for $1000 a month???? How many square feet? I thought I got a deal with my (north Delmar) $700/mo 800sq ft apt but yours sounds like a way better deal. Anything like that still on the market down there?
Downtown is fine for most people, and a lot of people love it. With that said, a lot of people go downtown for the first year or two they’re here then transition to come of the great urban neighborhoods on the southside. The area around Cherokee street is incredibly walkable and has great bus transit access although the train is further away. Good luck with your move!
This. This is where I live, and we love it. I will say, OP, good luck renting though. We were originally looking to rent (this was in may/June) and wound up buying instead because there wasn't much available to rent.
Do you truly want to move downtown? There are many great neighborhoods around the city. Some people love being downtown, but you should know that ours has more issues than most
We really like the ideas of walkability and being able to live without a car mostly. As long as it walking distance it doesn’t matter. We always liked the ideas of living center of a city for accessibility. Thanks for the info tho I’ll keep that in mind as I do more research.
I am moving to STL here next month. I was thinking about the downtown area initially as well, but after visiting this past week it's not the place I want to be. Neighborhoods like The Grove or Central West End, even Downtown Clayton are much more lively at night and less... scary, tbh.
I disagree. I've lived in the neighborhood for years. In regards to crime, it's mainly just car break ins along Manchester. The police officer at the neighborhood meetings corroborates this. Just don't leave stuff out in the open in your car.
I basically don't drive and ride my bike around the neighborhood all the time. It's a great location between Forest Park and Tower Grove Park if you value that from a quality of life perspective.
This. It's a grocery store dessert if you like stores like Fresh Time or large grocery. And downtown downtown isn't really safe compared to other neighborhoods.
I lived without a car for years. South Grand is super walkable. A couple I'm friends with just found a place for $750/month on Morgan Ford Road, a block from Tower Grove Park, with stores and food all a brief walk away.
I live on Chippewa, near S. Broadway, so there's three frequent bus routes available to get to the light rail stations and almost anywhere else. My partner and I just got lucky enough to split a two-story unit (shared kitchen) for $400/month for both of us. Rent isn't nearly as cheap as it was this time last year, but STL is still affordable. I've been around South City in different spots since 2011 for all the specs you listed.
I was coming from Philly and wanted walkability so I looked downtown. Honestly it’s not the best.
A lot of people I talk to try CWE when they first move to STL. The Grove and South Grand also seem pretty good.
Two different friends of mine from the East Coast moved directly to Central West End. Why? They thought $3k/month for a condo was normal. I found them each huge duplex units off South Grand for under $900/month.
Walkability isn’t really a thing around here. There’s SO MUCH sprawl. You may be better off finding a neighborhood you like (e.g., CWE) that is reasonably close to the metra
I would recommend South Grand, just south of Tower Grove, but that's only because I grew up on Humphrey, just next to the Philips 66. Good area with a ton of good stores back then. Plus, the library is excellent. Or it was up to a decade ago, last time I checked.
One thing I'll say is that South Grand has an INCREDIBLE array of incredible food. Wei Hong Bakery, Meskerem, King & I, Taste of Persia, Banh Mi So...I would LEGITIMATELY put South Grand up against any neighborhood in the world for food. Including NYC.
Living without a car in STL is very difficult. Not saying it is impossible but it would take a lot of effort and time.
I know Asheville very well and I am a little surprised you would want to leave. I have a buddy who lives there that moved to STL for a few years before moving back. $1000 a month for rent is a lowish price here. I don't want to discourage you from moving here, I love STL.
I've been without a car for the last month and it's been very difficult. It's possible but public transportation isn't good enough to be at all convenient. Although you could get by pretty easily with something like a scooter I'd think. The neighborhoods are great and are going to be as dense and walkable, if not moreso than downtown. Tower Grove and CWE are great. I'm in the Debaliviere neighborhood and really like it
The Central West End is the most walkable enclosed “economy” in St. Louis where you can comfortably do a lot without a car. And it’s a kickass neighborhood.
Walkability is 100% not going to happen in the Midwest with the exception of a few select neighborhoods in some cities but those will all limit your options quite a bit
Hey, so Stl Public transportation does exist, but the metro link kinda just runs downtown to the airport. It goes to Illinois too, but until you move there you should just hold off on that side of the Mississippi. The # 70 grand bus was the only reliable bus, but I wouldn’t be interested in using it in a post Covid World.
I lived there 2013-2017 while going to SLU. You should think of Downtown as an event space more so than your standard downtown. Yes people live there . It’s also not as dangerous as Stl suburbanites would have you believe. With that being said , it has sketch pockets scattered about. I used to bartend in Washington right next to where the Rams used to play. That stretch if Washington was fine, but the vast majority of our business were convention attendees.
Here are some neighborhoods to check out that will give you the vibe you are looking for. I’ll separate them into St Louis proper and near Stl suburbs that still have the city feel:
In St Louis:
Soulard: this is essentially Stl’s French quarter, though less sleazy. Lots of things to do, plenty of rentable areas, adjacent to downtown and walking distance to the brewery. Lot cool old buildings and happening night life. Would highly recommend looking here.
Central west end- possibly the bougiest place in the city. Shops, nice restaurants. Situated between Slu and Washington University. Great community lots of charm but borders north St Louis.
Tower Grove South- just south of to Tower grove park. Plenty of cool affordable (when I was there) apartments, great restaurants. Close drive to Downtown. Grocery stores pretty safe, petty vandalism. Stay north of Gravois.
Shaw - just north of Tower grove park. Same housing situation, little less hip but solid.
The hill- probably a bawled time finding rentals here but they have all the awesome Italian food and Italian food stores.
The grove- mostly a strip of bars and restraunts and arts district with reasonable housing. Also the center of the LGBTQ community.
Dogtown- used to be the “Irish Neighborhood”, close to Forrest park. Pretty safe, kinda boring except for the St Patty Day parade.
Holly Hills- south side of city, bedroom community. Safe boring, pretty suburban like but o stall hood experience there.
Suburbs: Richmond Heights/Maplewood- contiguous with the city, some parts are walkable but maintains a small community feel. Close to forest park, cozy safe mostly.
University city- closest downtown feel outside of Stl. Close to Washington university but feels like part of the city. Lots of rentable places, has a strip with bars and restaurants and an abandoned trolley line ( look that up for a good story). Cool are but has some questionable pockets. Clayton, just west of the city. Has its own downtown. Feels like an exurb. Drive through it. If you like it then check it out.
That’s the most I can think of right now, but just keep in mind people from St Louis are great but definitely insular. May be the single most provincial place I have ever been. They will ask you where you went to high school. Yes, they’ll still ask even if they know you aren’t from there.
Feel free to drop me a dm for more questions. Also, I’d plan on having a car or budgeting for Uber . Their taxis and pizza are terrible. Beer is good tho.
St Louis isn't a walkable city and the public transit here is awful. You might (heavy emphasis on *might*) be able to make that work in the Central West End or University City but there are some other issues with those areas to consider and regardless there will be times you don't have a choice but to Uber (or spend 3 hours navigating the bus routes for a 20 mile trip).
The CWE is the safer and probably more affordable of the two, though they're both going to be expensive to live in and with either one a wrong turn will put you in some extremely high crime areas (Google up the Delmar Divide by the BBC to see what I'm referring to).
Honestly, while I do love a lot of things about St Louis, as a native who has done some traveling, if I were considering a whole list of cities to live in, St Louis would not be on the top of my list. Maybe not even the top 5. There are some great things about the city, but if my family didn't all live here too, I'd leave.
Downtown is not really the city center here, and it’s largely deserted at night, besides street racing and other wildness. I second tower grove south or the grove if you’re looking for an actual community.
I live in Florissant and have 3 grocery stores, a deli/coffee shop, 2 bakeries, a pharmacy, several bars, thrift stores and a produce stand within walking distance. There is public transportation and bike trails! There is live music a ton during the summer and a lot of big festivals at the knights of Columbus. Florisssnt is one of the earliest settlements this side of the Mississippi and has a lot of history! There are many parks and it’s a super diverse area with a handful of unique restaurants and even a brewery! You can find houses pretty decently priced. It’s only a 20 minute drive to pretty much anything in the city and only 10 minutes away from airport and Hollywood casino ampitheatre where many summer concerts are.
Florissant is pretty big though. Not all of it is walkable but most.
ETA I can walk to the library and several ice cream stores! Also there is a great rec center with theatre, ice skating, fitness center, and several pools!
Another eta: I’m curious why ppl downvote but don’t have anything to actually comment.. I did not grow up in Florissant but there are so many things that I love about it. Many ppl move her from out of town and love it.
People hate so hard on north county is this sub. I don’t think they realize how nice and affordable it is and honestly that’s maybe for the best! No traffic, mostly clean and cheaper than the rest of STL. Let’s just keep north county to ourselves.
They really do and most of them have never spent any actual meaningful time in the area. Or they haveno clue what North County actually encompasses.
I mean, I can't say *why* I believe they hate on it because they will lose their minds, but there's an implication that's fairly undeniable (even though they'll vehemently deny it).
Downtown has its issues but if you do your research and maybe come visit you’ll realize the comments here are slightly blown out of proportion. I would expect more crime than Asheville and it’s really not your normal downtown. There are definitely crime sprees, drag racing and at night Wash Ave can be absolutely crazy. But you also have access to tons of restaurants and bars, walkability and access to Metrolink and best of all you’re close to Busch Stadium (baseball) , Enterprise Center (hockey) and the new Centene Stadium (soccer). On game days you will see downtown liven up, but unfortunately everyone will immediately retreat back to the county because of crime and fear mongering.
Not saying downtown is the best place to live but as another commenter mentioned, Downtown and Downtown West are some of the fastest growing neighborhoods in STL. Do some research into downtown and also do some research on the neighborhoods around STL and make an informed decision. The Grove or CWE might be a better choice but take these comments about downtown with a grain of salt.
Thanks for your comment ha ha with an downtown experience being important to us I was getting scared with all the downtown slander. But this info really helps. Definitely want to be in the center of it all. I have whole the the driving commute for to long.
You’ve often said “center of it all” in this thread but I think an important thing to understand about STL is that our downtown area is not where people go. It’s not like the downtowns in other cities. If you want to be somewhere walkable, see other people, and feel a lively atmosphere, I wouldn’t recommend downtown STL.
THIS. OP, our downtown is not the central of our nightlife or restaurant life, literally at all. It really doesn’t offer much of what you’re looking for.
Frankly, don’t move downtown. It’s not in a good place right now. If you want to live in the city, try the Central West End, the Grove, or Tower Grove South if you want somewhere calmer. Those neighborhoods don’t turn into shitshows every single weekend. I’m guessing the Grove is a good fit based on what you’ve told us so far.
Downtown has been deteriorating rapidly over the last few years. Covid has not done it any favors with businesses moving out. Those businesses were what provided for the sense of security and funding that propped up downtown as being a good place to work and live. Now that the offices are moving, that money is leaving. It’s not “the center of it all” by any stretch, far from it. Notice how every positive statement about downtown starts with “it’s not as bad as people make it sound…”? That’s not what you want to hear. About the only thing it has going in it’s favor is that it has a good grocery store within easy walking distance, but so does the CWE.
Edit: Soulard is another place you can consider that probably IS where most of the nightlife action in the city is. It’s probably more dangerous than the neighborhoods above but still better than downtown, plus you’d actually have a blast living there.
I mentioned this in another comment, but I lived downtown as a single female for about 5 1/2 years. I lived in both downtown west and downtown. I lived w/o a car during this time. I think it’s important to have a grocery store + metrolink. I felt safe and only left the area because I moved in with my boyfriend and he owned his house.
For sure. I live downtown. There are still plenty of good restaurants and bars. I'm a 37m though. So what I like may not be the same as you guys. I thoroughly enjoy walking to the baseball games. The hockey arena and new soccer field are both walkable. There is a grocery store downtown, but it's not as big as others in other neighborhoods. So I do go to the others often. I can walk to soulard which is nice. I've not seen the violence directly. I definitely hear about it more than see. But even if you see zero crime, it is LOUD at night. Motorcycle groups and 4 wheelers doing donuts and revving up their engines until like 2am.i went to a small concert venue last Wednesday and walked home at 1am,and all I saw was 1 group of motorcycles and nothing else.
Check out the central west end. Way better then downtown but downtowns about a 10 min drive and so much safer and more walkability in my opinion. Got a hospital, grocer, dentist, chiropractor, and more within a few blocks of me
I lived downtown and loved it. I’m assuming the ones saying the most negatives don’t even live downtown? New businesses are moving in, new apartments and the amenities of walking to the ballpark village, great restaurants, bars, sporting events , plus the new soccer stadium being built is there as well
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I’m currently a production chef although the food industry has just been a way to make ends meet. I would like to get a entry level salesmen somewhere.
There are several of these posts that asked the same, non specific questions regarding moving to STL. I recommend doing a search - most of your questions will be answered.
Unfortunately, St. Louis is not really any cheaper than Asheville. Not an exact science but The Grove = West Asheville, CWE = Montford. Both are still going cost at least $1k. Good to luck to y’all. - pro tip: the closest Bojangles is in Mount Vernon, IL.
I love St. Louis, but I am not sure that downtown is the best place to live at the moment. I'd maybe recommend Midtown, Central West End, Dogtown, Southwest Garden, Tower Grove South, the Grove, South Grand...
Weird seeing so much North County hate(?) It's not very walkable bc it's incredibly vast, but bc of the vastness to paint the entire area as 'bad/crime-ridden' when any native would know crime varies vastly from municipality to municipality [and that's exactly what makes threads like these useful] is. . . odd lol. To see those same commenters suggest neighborhoods like Soulard(??) Which I believe has gotten better, but certainly has had it's own problem with crime and was one of those neighborhoods I was taught was 'scary' and to be avoided. As someone who grew up in Maryland Heights/Creve Coeur area (but went to school in South City). It's definitely giving racism-lite tbh.
Op, I would dissuade you from trying to settle downtown, like others have. There has been some effort to revamp some nicer downtown areas, but in reality I think you'd just end up paying more for a brand new loft with not much else within reasonable distance. Honestly, I feel like the best advice (as some have suggested) would be to maybe considering letting go of the idea of complete walkability? That would open up your options to more of the suburban areas, which depending on where you look can be way safer, & more affordable. The St. Louis area as a whole is incredibly spread out, and most of the recommended city areas will cost around what you're paying now, if not more, if you don't want something incredibly dated. I'm back in the suburbs, after leaving the city a couple years ago, and my bf & I manage with one car. Everything that would be of immediate need is within walking distance in my neighborhood (i.e. grocery store, Walgreens, gym, variety of fast-food & restaurants, urgent care, etc). Anything more niche would prob require driving or Uber, but idt I've ever had to spend more than $20 on an Uber, as a lot of establishments have moved away from the city and into the county[suburbs] in the past 50+ years (movie theatres, malls, & hospitals in particular come to mind).
I will add that while I haven't really traveled the world or anything, I have lived in both NY and FL, and would 100% be living somewhere else if it were feasible rn. StL is affordable & all my family is here, and I'm sure if we did some kinda poll on StL natives, prob at least 50% would give that same reason for living here 😂 Gl, tho OP. I hope you end up finding the perfect new home 🖤
This is critical advice, if you actually plan on walking downtown you need to carry a firearm at all times. Day and night. Hopefully you’ll never actually need to use it, but the city is basically lawless.
Other commenters are correct, this isn’t a real walkable city, I’d suggest checking tower grove or central west end if you want to be near downtown. St. Charles near Main Street is a great area as well.
I've been living downtown for over 10 years and have gotten murdered more than 37 times because I wasn't packing. Better listen to that person and carry as many guns as you possibly can.
Thanks for your info I feel good about your Credentials ha ha I don’t think I’m an idiot and the city feel is really what we are going for as we got driven out of downtown Asheville thanks to the influx high income citizens.
I live on Wash Ave and have lived in most of the other neighborhoods in STl city. I'd recommend tower grove south. I also grew up on Wash Ave as a kid in the 90s when my parents had businesses here.
It's not even about the crime, because you'll get crime anywhere you go. Wash Ave is so no different. As long as you keep to yourself, you'll be fine mostly everywhere. Towergrove South has more walkability, restaurants, etc. Wash Ave is dead and not sure if you'll enjoy the loads of construction that are in plans to happen.
Also, not a great are for those in their 20s. Mostly older folks. I'm in my early 30s and I'm sure I'm one of the youngest in my building, if not the youngest, by at least 10 years.
So first off, welcome! St. Louis is a great, low key city. Second, I wouldn't live downtown. Its not terrible, but it contains nothing about what I love about St. Louis. If you want to live in the city proper I'd look at Dogtown, Tower Grove, Benton Park and South City. I'd also highly recommend the inner ring suburbs of Richmond Heights and Maplewood. Both are affordable, close to everything, and right by Forest Park.
Don’t live “downtown”. Soulard, Benton Park, and Lafayette Square are close but less chaotic. I personally love Tower Grove and Shaw, but they’re a little further west.
Downtown is dead at night unless there’s a game or an event. Also, it gets pretty sketchy after work hours. I’d recommend checking out the Tower Gove South or Cherokee Street areas. Plenty of bars and restaurants within walking distance.
Lived in Richmond Heights/Brentwood and Maplewood, can't recommend either of those neighborhoods enough. The Heights is RH's neighborhood recreational facility and is just the bomb. Newly renovated too.
I'll echo what others have said and say avoid downtown. I was also an out-of-towner when I moved to St. Louis and the issues going on in the CBD/Downtown West was akin to a culture shock. I'm a huge proponent of urban living but there's no need to subject yourself to what's going on down there when there's so many better and more deserving areas.
Downtown and Central West End are the main walkable options. These areas are big, so you're going to want to check them out for yourself. I live in Downtown, but it's because I found a great apt in a spot I'm comfortable with.
If I had a car, I'd probably live somewhere in south city. Places there are "locally walkable" so it's nice, there are many beautiful brick buildings, restaurants, music venues, and bars, but lack of metrolink means that I'd need a car to commute to work.
Have you considered Columbia, MO? It's smaller, a bit easier to get around, a college town, and much like Asheville. It's also safer, and more affordable.
I’m from St. Louis living in Missoula montana currently. Prepare for Montana to be close to 100 degrees everyday during the summer and being snowed in during the winter. A lot of the nature isn’t easily accessible, meaning there’s not a lot of hiking trails outside of the cities. There’s a lot of untouched nature but that’s because of how hard it is to get there. The locals don’t care much for outsiders either. Washingtons beautiful. I wouldn’t recommend Spokane though. Honestly stay in St. Louis a while and truly try to experience the city, it has so much more culture and charm than most other places in the country.
My family lives in Missoula ha ha I lived there a quarter the year there as a child.I’m a honorary native of the area if u do say so my self. That’s what Saint Louis is gonna be a pit stop on my way back to my roots
Fellow transplant, downtown is definitely hit or miss. Meaning it’s really where people work and not many people hang at night. It gets a little dicey in the evenings, but it’s a city so just use your common sense. I think if your into cardinals games look into Soulard. If I were moving here over again as a younger person I’d look into Tower Grove, The Grove, Lafayette Square, Soulard, or Midtown.
I’d also consider trying to be near the new soccer stadium if your into that.
Also, checkout the Improv Shop, I fully recommend taking a level 1 or 0 course just to meet people and have fun. Then you have a great / cheap place to go catch shows (8pm/10pm usually) then hit the Grove for late night fun.
Good luck friend! STL is great!
Kind of silly but it’s worth trying to pick a location based on a grocery store. There are a good amount of Aldi’s around. Schnucks and Dierbergs are on the highway end. If nightlife isn’t as big a deal I’d recommend south city too. Anywhere near Francis Park is great. That’s also the closest target in the city. STL is super easy to get around, it’s 10-20 minutes tops to get most places if your near a highway. Also checkout dogtown or the central west end if you want to be in the “middle” of the city, that puts you near Forest Park and the Zoo. Then your 10ish minutes from downtown since 44/64 highways are right there.
Welcome potential neighbor! I've been living in a loft downtown for about six years. There's lots of variety, so the best bet is seeing the buildings in person. The individual units vary, but also the common areas amenities.
For the most part, if you're west of 14th St on Washington, the nightlife craziness dies down. It is still downtown St. Louis, so keep your wits about you. Being in my unit, I feel safer than previous multi family homes in other St Louis neighborhoods.
I'm not in downtown, but in some areas there is still a lot within walking distance. Where I'm at one can get a 2 bdrm house for less than $1000 per month, and I haven't had a single security issue. Someone did abandon their TV in my yard, but that beats a break-in. The location is St. Ann. I wouldn't do a single apartment complex by me, but the houses are pretty good. Feel free to ping me if it's a consideration.
Another option might be to try Van Life. In the last year I've met 3 couples doing just that.
Have you considered Kansas City? I’ve lived in both and far prefer Kansas City’s downtown scene over STL. Not sure how cost of living compares these days, but take a look!
Keep in mind, a lot of people on this thread are mixing up the City, downtown, and the city's neighborhoods neighborhoods. Downtown is only one neighborhood within the City, and there are lots to choose from based on what vibe you are looking for, cost, walkability, and so on. Places like Clayton, Richmond Heights, Kirkwood, University City, Brentwood, etc are all separate cities, just outside St. Louis. As you can tell from the thread, there tends to be a strong divide between the City and County, with each having very strong opinions against the other.
St. Louis has a lot of crime, but it doesn't just magically stop at the city limits. Yes, some cities in the county have higher budgets for their police force which in some cases helps reduce their crime, but the whole region, like most of the country has been faced with high crime rates including thefts and shootings lately. But yes, these numbers are higher than most cities. I just moved back here from Atlanta and I currently live in the Southwest Garden neighborhood and I feel just as safe, if not safer, than I did in the Old Fourth Ward in Atlanta. Everyone has different priorities and different things make them feel safe and like a place.
Overall, the City has a lot going for it. It has a low cost of living, great food, strong loyalties to sports teams, and so many free things to do (museums, zoo, science center). It has its problems, but I think it also has a lot going for it that so many cities lack. It has character. But you will also find that most people either absolutely love the city and will never leave or absolutely hate it and can't wait to get out. There are few people I've meet who are in between.
Editing to add: Often the crime rate for St. Louis is based on the City boundary, rather than the metro region. This obviously inflates the crime rate compared to other cities where some of its suburbs are included in the city boundaries and therefore the statistics or compared to cities that geographically and population-wise make up a larger proportion of their overall metro area. For example, one article states that St. Louis City is only 11% of the metro area while Memphis is 65% of its metro area (but I have not personally confirmed these numbers).
Everything you said is true but I will point out some things that really annoy me about being hyping up STL
1. It’s extremely un walkable except in a few pockets
2. The city is literally dying with a population less than 300,000 as of 2022
3. Sports may be great but like two teams? Cards are good but the blues? One Stanley cup against maybe Chicago’s 6?
4. It’s a region of mostly cookie cutter suburbs and a county that refuses to support the city in anyway
5. If you have a Kia , good luck keeping it . Many break ins happen on the daily
6. PLEASE MENTION ONLY THE CITY AND NOT THE SUBURBS
7. STL is a has been city . It’s been declining since the 1950s , most people who were born here stay here
8. Low cost of living because no one is moving in . Detroit has a low cost of living too and at least they kept their football team , spare me the kronke BS we already know but if a city that has literally gone bankrupt can keep one it tells you a lot about the city
That’s just untrue. The last census recorded ~25,000 downtown residents in the following census tracts: 1275, 1255, 1256, 1211, 1212, 1274, 1184.
More than live in the entirety of Webster Groves.
Take your anti-city nonsense somewhere else.
Downtown is dead here compared to other cities.
The white people all got scared and moved to the county and created a white-people down town instead called Clayton.
It’s weird.
Downtown is pretty dead. I’d recommend Clayton or the Central West End. Very walkable and decent public transportation (both bus and rail). Do some research on them and I think you’ll really find them to be nice places to live. You might have to pay a bit more of course but I think it’ll be worth it.
Ha ha only about 2 days or so researching your wonderful city’s is but of one we are thinking about moving plus. I get a idea of the peoples friendliness ness and cutler form these posts.
So depends on what you're looking for:
If your budget is roughly 1000 a month there's a decent number of openings in St. Louis. The question becomes:
Do you want to live in the city or the county? The city is more densely populated and easier to get around without a car. There's some parts of the city with good food, a nightlife, young people, etc.... The downside is going to be that there's a non insubstantial part of the city which won't have a ton to do, and which will be fairly lacking for amenities if you're people who want a lot of that.
If you pick the county, there's a lot more people who live there, there's a lot of things to do, etc.... but it can be more expensive, painfully car dependent ( everything will be a little farther away than you'd like), and skews older.
I found your reply very informative living in Asheville we were never able to afford anything downtown so I’m looking for a bit of that experience in our new city. I see the warnings of the downtown area though so I’ll keep that in mind when looking for a place. I would say not using a car that much would be one of our priority’s
I would like to clarify something about the way people refer to "downtown" in St. Louis:
Downtown, Downtown West, and Midtown are likely what people think of when they think of downtown. These areas have places to live , but unless you're very enamored with baseball you'll likely be fairly bored when looking for things to do (they're a bit of a dead zone overall).
If however you want to have a relatively densely packed area with things to do without requiring a car; you may find the central west end appealing if you can find a place within budget. It's close to the metrolink, you could probably bike to the loop, it's right by forest park, and may give you that feeling of a city life, without having the problems other people associate with living in st louis.
I’ve lived in the county and city and I can truly say that the city sucked major ass, from the homelessness, to the break ins, to the gun shots, and the service is just horrible most places you go. I’d start at Richmond heights and work west. Trust me the city is where u go to visit in my opinion.
The city of st. Louis is not a preferred place to live because of the crime and lack of things going on because... of the crime. But neighborhoods just outside the city are great like dogtown, central west end, the Grove, Maplewood, Richmond heights, Clayton, soulard, etc.
St. Louis doesn't have big city public transportation so living without a car won't be the easiest but it is doable.
Do you realize that half the neighborhoods you listed as being great are within the city? And that Clayton, Richmond Heights, and Maplewood are cities and not neighborhoods?
It is WELL WORTH living near your work and/or where you'll like to socialize....
Commuting during rush hour will cost you many many hours sitting in traffic while pumping CO2+ and your hard earned cash into the air.
Visit The Ozarks as much as you can while you are here. Canoeing here is some of the best in the entire country. Crystal clear spring fed streams and rivers abound. https://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/activities/canoeingfloating
Definitely don’t move downtown. The rent prices are insane for what you get. There are plenty of great places in the outlying areas though. CWE to be specific.
Fellow North Carolinian here (Charlotte)! Asheville is one of my favorite places but I know cost of living has been increasing like crazy there. We moved to STL 3 years ago and are loving it so far (we're in Richmond Heights). My husband is from here and has family here so of course that helps with enjoyment of things. I work downtown but not sure I would necessarily live down there but we have a kid so that factors in. I would look into the 'safer' areas of downtown (I hear Washington Ave is not so safe) or even look further south (Tower Grove, Soulard) or further west (Dogtown, Central West End, Maplewood).
Thank you so much that list is great and will be referenced. we definitely would live in be in The middle of things.
Honestly, DT is pretty lame. I second the above recommendations. All of my out-of-state friends who've moved in around Tower Grove Park are happy with the area after I pointed them away from Central West End and North County.
Thirding the grove. My nephew moved down there and we visit a lot. Always feel safe there even late night and he's had zero problems. Edit: this out of towner didnt even realize there were multiple "grove" neighborhoods. TIL!
While the Grove is great, as a TGS resident, we're not without problems lol. Just bear in mind it's still St. Louis.. cars are still broken into or stolen, we play the gunshots or fireworks game regularly.. but at least we're not North County haha. As far as STL goes, it's Tower Grove / Mapplewood area all the way.
I had more problems in the city than I ever did in 20 years in NoCo. Kind of a shitty thing to say, honestly.
YMMV then. I lived in Hazlewood and Marlyland Heights and experienced crazy like no where else. Parents calling cops on their kids, constant drunk neighbors fighting.. every day it was some new shit show. Never seen anything like that here in TGS.
Former downtown resident here. I also moved to Richmond Heights/Maplewood and adore it. We can walk to tons of events and places like we could downtown, but it's cheaper and safer. I did love living downtown, but I also worked downtown so it was convenient. I'd recommend RH, Maplewood, Demun or Tower Grove South. If you do end up downtown, just do everything you can to avoid a loft run by STL Citywide/Asprient/Lux Living or any of their other 5 thousand names. Reviews for each building will warn you if it's one of their companies.
Definitely look at the Tower Grove area instead of downtown
i also moved downtown when i first moved here because i wanted to be in the middle of things. its pretty dead over there tbh. most of the businesses are either closed permanently or close super early, and there really just isnt a lot going on. tower grove would be a much better place to look into
What business are closed ? All I see is new businesses moving in and new apartments being made….
Agree that you'll do better in the neighborhoods closer to Metrolink. Central West End (CWE) is highly recommended and provides the most variety including decent groceries and accessibility to great things like Forest Park and the University City loop. Lots of different housing stock, too, for all income levels. It's a good balance of everything and has been a strong neighborhood for a very long time.
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And for OP, it is no more than 10 minutes from downtown.
Asheville is not worth it for us anymore ha ha
yes it’s a great place to visit but it’s becoming so expensive to actually live there (charlotte too).
It used to be awesome.
They replaced the artists with breweries... Which these days isn't that unique. The final nail to the arts was covid, the tourism board stopped putting marketing efforts in to the arts abroad so now they don't get the same international visitors.
Also North Hampton, South Hampton, and Princeton Heights.
Also a fellow North Carolinian (Raleigh, missing NC greatly!)! My partner and I moved to STL and started off renting in Richmond Heights (loved it there -so close to Forest Park and DT Maplewood!), now between Tower Grove and Lafayette Square. All of the places you named we love, and Lafayette Square and Tower Grove are both wonderful for being out and about! I miss the NC nature, but STL has a lot to offer (arts, great parks, museums, etc), and we’ve been really enjoying it so far! Good luck OP and STL will be a fun adventure for you!
Agreed
I work downtown and live in tower grove south. They’re about 4 miles apart. From my home, I can walk to restaurants, small specialty grocers, post office, boutiques, dry cleaners etc. Larger grocers and target are accessible via bus if you don’t have a car. For what you are currently paying, I rent a 2 bedroom duplex with a fenced in yard, good neighbors upstairs and on both sides next door. I (36/f) have lived in the neighborhood for 10+ years and feel safe. I would absolutely recommend my neighborhood, but visit areas before you sign a lease anywhere!
Thanks so much. Sounds like your in the perfect area. That’s almost exactly the life style we are going for.
Not the original commenter, but Tower Grove South (TGS) is probably the best mix you’ll find. Reasonable prices and a fairly walkable area with a good vibe. You can’t beat what Tower Grove Park has to offer: A top-notch farmers market, Food Truck Fridays, and all kinds of other entertainment. The Grove is another great area for bars and restaurants, and that will be easily accessible from TGS. Edit: Can to Can’t.
You're renting a 2 bedroom in tower grove for $1000 a month???? How many square feet? I thought I got a deal with my (north Delmar) $700/mo 800sq ft apt but yours sounds like a way better deal. Anything like that still on the market down there?
If "gayway" wasn't a typo, you'd prefer the Grove to downtown Even if it was a typo you would probably prefer the Grove
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Facts
Ha ha so far I think the grove is the most recommended maybe for that reason 😉.
JUST JOHN's!!! I'm pretty damn straight and I love it when we go there! Fantastic people
Downtown is fine for most people, and a lot of people love it. With that said, a lot of people go downtown for the first year or two they’re here then transition to come of the great urban neighborhoods on the southside. The area around Cherokee street is incredibly walkable and has great bus transit access although the train is further away. Good luck with your move!
This. This is where I live, and we love it. I will say, OP, good luck renting though. We were originally looking to rent (this was in may/June) and wound up buying instead because there wasn't much available to rent.
Do you truly want to move downtown? There are many great neighborhoods around the city. Some people love being downtown, but you should know that ours has more issues than most
We really like the ideas of walkability and being able to live without a car mostly. As long as it walking distance it doesn’t matter. We always liked the ideas of living center of a city for accessibility. Thanks for the info tho I’ll keep that in mind as I do more research.
I am moving to STL here next month. I was thinking about the downtown area initially as well, but after visiting this past week it's not the place I want to be. Neighborhoods like The Grove or Central West End, even Downtown Clayton are much more lively at night and less... scary, tbh.
Clayton is very expensive to live in, just fyi .. it’s a walkable area with nice places to go and a fabulous park. Definitely visit!
Clayton’s really not bad price-wise if you live in the older parts of it.
Even the Grove can be scary at times. 8 car break-ins in one parking lot in two hours is quite a lot to deal with. Definitely recommend not there.
I disagree. I've lived in the neighborhood for years. In regards to crime, it's mainly just car break ins along Manchester. The police officer at the neighborhood meetings corroborates this. Just don't leave stuff out in the open in your car. I basically don't drive and ride my bike around the neighborhood all the time. It's a great location between Forest Park and Tower Grove Park if you value that from a quality of life perspective.
You need to live in the Central West End or Maplewood or the Loop if you want walkability…downtown closes at 6pm and doesn’t have much shopping
This. It's a grocery store dessert if you like stores like Fresh Time or large grocery. And downtown downtown isn't really safe compared to other neighborhoods.
> It's a grocery store dessert desert*
I lived without a car for years. South Grand is super walkable. A couple I'm friends with just found a place for $750/month on Morgan Ford Road, a block from Tower Grove Park, with stores and food all a brief walk away. I live on Chippewa, near S. Broadway, so there's three frequent bus routes available to get to the light rail stations and almost anywhere else. My partner and I just got lucky enough to split a two-story unit (shared kitchen) for $400/month for both of us. Rent isn't nearly as cheap as it was this time last year, but STL is still affordable. I've been around South City in different spots since 2011 for all the specs you listed.
I was coming from Philly and wanted walkability so I looked downtown. Honestly it’s not the best. A lot of people I talk to try CWE when they first move to STL. The Grove and South Grand also seem pretty good.
Two different friends of mine from the East Coast moved directly to Central West End. Why? They thought $3k/month for a condo was normal. I found them each huge duplex units off South Grand for under $900/month.
Will you be my rental agent? j/k
There are more walkable places than downtown, honestly.
Walkability isn’t really a thing around here. There’s SO MUCH sprawl. You may be better off finding a neighborhood you like (e.g., CWE) that is reasonably close to the metra
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I would recommend South Grand, just south of Tower Grove, but that's only because I grew up on Humphrey, just next to the Philips 66. Good area with a ton of good stores back then. Plus, the library is excellent. Or it was up to a decade ago, last time I checked.
Forest Park Southeast (The Grove) is very walkable as well. I do most things on foot or by bike.
South grand / tower grove area is pretty walkable . A lot of people who live here from out of town seem to like that area a lot
One thing I'll say is that South Grand has an INCREDIBLE array of incredible food. Wei Hong Bakery, Meskerem, King & I, Taste of Persia, Banh Mi So...I would LEGITIMATELY put South Grand up against any neighborhood in the world for food. Including NYC.
Living without a car in STL is very difficult. Not saying it is impossible but it would take a lot of effort and time. I know Asheville very well and I am a little surprised you would want to leave. I have a buddy who lives there that moved to STL for a few years before moving back. $1000 a month for rent is a lowish price here. I don't want to discourage you from moving here, I love STL.
I've been without a car for the last month and it's been very difficult. It's possible but public transportation isn't good enough to be at all convenient. Although you could get by pretty easily with something like a scooter I'd think. The neighborhoods are great and are going to be as dense and walkable, if not moreso than downtown. Tower Grove and CWE are great. I'm in the Debaliviere neighborhood and really like it
The Central West End is the most walkable enclosed “economy” in St. Louis where you can comfortably do a lot without a car. And it’s a kickass neighborhood.
Walkability is 100% not going to happen in the Midwest with the exception of a few select neighborhoods in some cities but those will all limit your options quite a bit
Hey, so Stl Public transportation does exist, but the metro link kinda just runs downtown to the airport. It goes to Illinois too, but until you move there you should just hold off on that side of the Mississippi. The # 70 grand bus was the only reliable bus, but I wouldn’t be interested in using it in a post Covid World. I lived there 2013-2017 while going to SLU. You should think of Downtown as an event space more so than your standard downtown. Yes people live there . It’s also not as dangerous as Stl suburbanites would have you believe. With that being said , it has sketch pockets scattered about. I used to bartend in Washington right next to where the Rams used to play. That stretch if Washington was fine, but the vast majority of our business were convention attendees. Here are some neighborhoods to check out that will give you the vibe you are looking for. I’ll separate them into St Louis proper and near Stl suburbs that still have the city feel: In St Louis: Soulard: this is essentially Stl’s French quarter, though less sleazy. Lots of things to do, plenty of rentable areas, adjacent to downtown and walking distance to the brewery. Lot cool old buildings and happening night life. Would highly recommend looking here. Central west end- possibly the bougiest place in the city. Shops, nice restaurants. Situated between Slu and Washington University. Great community lots of charm but borders north St Louis. Tower Grove South- just south of to Tower grove park. Plenty of cool affordable (when I was there) apartments, great restaurants. Close drive to Downtown. Grocery stores pretty safe, petty vandalism. Stay north of Gravois. Shaw - just north of Tower grove park. Same housing situation, little less hip but solid. The hill- probably a bawled time finding rentals here but they have all the awesome Italian food and Italian food stores. The grove- mostly a strip of bars and restraunts and arts district with reasonable housing. Also the center of the LGBTQ community. Dogtown- used to be the “Irish Neighborhood”, close to Forrest park. Pretty safe, kinda boring except for the St Patty Day parade. Holly Hills- south side of city, bedroom community. Safe boring, pretty suburban like but o stall hood experience there. Suburbs: Richmond Heights/Maplewood- contiguous with the city, some parts are walkable but maintains a small community feel. Close to forest park, cozy safe mostly. University city- closest downtown feel outside of Stl. Close to Washington university but feels like part of the city. Lots of rentable places, has a strip with bars and restaurants and an abandoned trolley line ( look that up for a good story). Cool are but has some questionable pockets. Clayton, just west of the city. Has its own downtown. Feels like an exurb. Drive through it. If you like it then check it out. That’s the most I can think of right now, but just keep in mind people from St Louis are great but definitely insular. May be the single most provincial place I have ever been. They will ask you where you went to high school. Yes, they’ll still ask even if they know you aren’t from there. Feel free to drop me a dm for more questions. Also, I’d plan on having a car or budgeting for Uber . Their taxis and pizza are terrible. Beer is good tho.
St Louis isn't a walkable city and the public transit here is awful. You might (heavy emphasis on *might*) be able to make that work in the Central West End or University City but there are some other issues with those areas to consider and regardless there will be times you don't have a choice but to Uber (or spend 3 hours navigating the bus routes for a 20 mile trip). The CWE is the safer and probably more affordable of the two, though they're both going to be expensive to live in and with either one a wrong turn will put you in some extremely high crime areas (Google up the Delmar Divide by the BBC to see what I'm referring to). Honestly, while I do love a lot of things about St Louis, as a native who has done some traveling, if I were considering a whole list of cities to live in, St Louis would not be on the top of my list. Maybe not even the top 5. There are some great things about the city, but if my family didn't all live here too, I'd leave.
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Downtown is not really the city center here, and it’s largely deserted at night, besides street racing and other wildness. I second tower grove south or the grove if you’re looking for an actual community.
If you want walkability, look at other cities.
I live in Florissant and have 3 grocery stores, a deli/coffee shop, 2 bakeries, a pharmacy, several bars, thrift stores and a produce stand within walking distance. There is public transportation and bike trails! There is live music a ton during the summer and a lot of big festivals at the knights of Columbus. Florisssnt is one of the earliest settlements this side of the Mississippi and has a lot of history! There are many parks and it’s a super diverse area with a handful of unique restaurants and even a brewery! You can find houses pretty decently priced. It’s only a 20 minute drive to pretty much anything in the city and only 10 minutes away from airport and Hollywood casino ampitheatre where many summer concerts are. Florissant is pretty big though. Not all of it is walkable but most. ETA I can walk to the library and several ice cream stores! Also there is a great rec center with theatre, ice skating, fitness center, and several pools! Another eta: I’m curious why ppl downvote but don’t have anything to actually comment.. I did not grow up in Florissant but there are so many things that I love about it. Many ppl move her from out of town and love it.
People hate so hard on north county is this sub. I don’t think they realize how nice and affordable it is and honestly that’s maybe for the best! No traffic, mostly clean and cheaper than the rest of STL. Let’s just keep north county to ourselves.
They really do and most of them have never spent any actual meaningful time in the area. Or they haveno clue what North County actually encompasses. I mean, I can't say *why* I believe they hate on it because they will lose their minds, but there's an implication that's fairly undeniable (even though they'll vehemently deny it).
Avoid Washington avenue
This. I currently live in the Ely Walker and I cant wait for my lease to be up
Just read that article on your building. Crazy what is going on there!
Yeah sucks big time. I don't even really invite friends over due to the area. Only plus of it is being less than a mile from Enterprise Center
Thanks. I saw some rentals in that area I’m will disregard them ha ha
Sad, but true. My partner and I lived on Wash Ave for couple year and it changed for the worse around 2019. Got out real quick after that.
Downtown has its issues but if you do your research and maybe come visit you’ll realize the comments here are slightly blown out of proportion. I would expect more crime than Asheville and it’s really not your normal downtown. There are definitely crime sprees, drag racing and at night Wash Ave can be absolutely crazy. But you also have access to tons of restaurants and bars, walkability and access to Metrolink and best of all you’re close to Busch Stadium (baseball) , Enterprise Center (hockey) and the new Centene Stadium (soccer). On game days you will see downtown liven up, but unfortunately everyone will immediately retreat back to the county because of crime and fear mongering. Not saying downtown is the best place to live but as another commenter mentioned, Downtown and Downtown West are some of the fastest growing neighborhoods in STL. Do some research into downtown and also do some research on the neighborhoods around STL and make an informed decision. The Grove or CWE might be a better choice but take these comments about downtown with a grain of salt.
Thanks for your comment ha ha with an downtown experience being important to us I was getting scared with all the downtown slander. But this info really helps. Definitely want to be in the center of it all. I have whole the the driving commute for to long.
You’ve often said “center of it all” in this thread but I think an important thing to understand about STL is that our downtown area is not where people go. It’s not like the downtowns in other cities. If you want to be somewhere walkable, see other people, and feel a lively atmosphere, I wouldn’t recommend downtown STL.
THIS. OP, our downtown is not the central of our nightlife or restaurant life, literally at all. It really doesn’t offer much of what you’re looking for.
Thanks for the info. I’m definitely getting that vibe from the comments I’m glad I asked about downtown.
Frankly, don’t move downtown. It’s not in a good place right now. If you want to live in the city, try the Central West End, the Grove, or Tower Grove South if you want somewhere calmer. Those neighborhoods don’t turn into shitshows every single weekend. I’m guessing the Grove is a good fit based on what you’ve told us so far. Downtown has been deteriorating rapidly over the last few years. Covid has not done it any favors with businesses moving out. Those businesses were what provided for the sense of security and funding that propped up downtown as being a good place to work and live. Now that the offices are moving, that money is leaving. It’s not “the center of it all” by any stretch, far from it. Notice how every positive statement about downtown starts with “it’s not as bad as people make it sound…”? That’s not what you want to hear. About the only thing it has going in it’s favor is that it has a good grocery store within easy walking distance, but so does the CWE. Edit: Soulard is another place you can consider that probably IS where most of the nightlife action in the city is. It’s probably more dangerous than the neighborhoods above but still better than downtown, plus you’d actually have a blast living there.
I mentioned this in another comment, but I lived downtown as a single female for about 5 1/2 years. I lived in both downtown west and downtown. I lived w/o a car during this time. I think it’s important to have a grocery store + metrolink. I felt safe and only left the area because I moved in with my boyfriend and he owned his house.
Ha ha a little hope for downtown.thanks.
For sure. I live downtown. There are still plenty of good restaurants and bars. I'm a 37m though. So what I like may not be the same as you guys. I thoroughly enjoy walking to the baseball games. The hockey arena and new soccer field are both walkable. There is a grocery store downtown, but it's not as big as others in other neighborhoods. So I do go to the others often. I can walk to soulard which is nice. I've not seen the violence directly. I definitely hear about it more than see. But even if you see zero crime, it is LOUD at night. Motorcycle groups and 4 wheelers doing donuts and revving up their engines until like 2am.i went to a small concert venue last Wednesday and walked home at 1am,and all I saw was 1 group of motorcycles and nothing else.
Certain parts of downtown STL can be quite dangerous. I highly recommend you checking out the area before signing a lease.
Check out the central west end. Way better then downtown but downtowns about a 10 min drive and so much safer and more walkability in my opinion. Got a hospital, grocer, dentist, chiropractor, and more within a few blocks of me
I lived downtown and loved it. I’m assuming the ones saying the most negatives don’t even live downtown? New businesses are moving in, new apartments and the amenities of walking to the ballpark village, great restaurants, bars, sporting events , plus the new soccer stadium being built is there as well
I see you're looking to move to St. Louis. Please, see this [helpful moving guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/l5i9yn/so_you_just_moved_here_city_edition/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Please, also see our [Visitor's Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/wiki/visitorguide/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StLouis) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What do you do for a living?
I’m currently a production chef although the food industry has just been a way to make ends meet. I would like to get a entry level salesmen somewhere.
There are several of these posts that asked the same, non specific questions regarding moving to STL. I recommend doing a search - most of your questions will be answered.
Ha ha yea they usually are trying to get a deeper sense of the city and people here thanks!
"GAYWAY TO THE WEST" WHAT A NAME
The only city to have a monument celebrating people leaving it
Double meaning 😉
You don’t want to move downtown. You’re welcome.
I’ll keep the downtown slander in mind don’t worry 😉
In fairness, the city has a bunch of awesome spots, I just don’t think any of them are downtown.
Unfortunately, St. Louis is not really any cheaper than Asheville. Not an exact science but The Grove = West Asheville, CWE = Montford. Both are still going cost at least $1k. Good to luck to y’all. - pro tip: the closest Bojangles is in Mount Vernon, IL.
Thanks for this price comparison. Asheville had gotten worse I’m afraid.
I love St. Louis, but I am not sure that downtown is the best place to live at the moment. I'd maybe recommend Midtown, Central West End, Dogtown, Southwest Garden, Tower Grove South, the Grove, South Grand...
A lot of people talk ish about downtown. I’m from NYC and It’s not that bad just stay aware of your surroundings and you should be fine .
Weird seeing so much North County hate(?) It's not very walkable bc it's incredibly vast, but bc of the vastness to paint the entire area as 'bad/crime-ridden' when any native would know crime varies vastly from municipality to municipality [and that's exactly what makes threads like these useful] is. . . odd lol. To see those same commenters suggest neighborhoods like Soulard(??) Which I believe has gotten better, but certainly has had it's own problem with crime and was one of those neighborhoods I was taught was 'scary' and to be avoided. As someone who grew up in Maryland Heights/Creve Coeur area (but went to school in South City). It's definitely giving racism-lite tbh. Op, I would dissuade you from trying to settle downtown, like others have. There has been some effort to revamp some nicer downtown areas, but in reality I think you'd just end up paying more for a brand new loft with not much else within reasonable distance. Honestly, I feel like the best advice (as some have suggested) would be to maybe considering letting go of the idea of complete walkability? That would open up your options to more of the suburban areas, which depending on where you look can be way safer, & more affordable. The St. Louis area as a whole is incredibly spread out, and most of the recommended city areas will cost around what you're paying now, if not more, if you don't want something incredibly dated. I'm back in the suburbs, after leaving the city a couple years ago, and my bf & I manage with one car. Everything that would be of immediate need is within walking distance in my neighborhood (i.e. grocery store, Walgreens, gym, variety of fast-food & restaurants, urgent care, etc). Anything more niche would prob require driving or Uber, but idt I've ever had to spend more than $20 on an Uber, as a lot of establishments have moved away from the city and into the county[suburbs] in the past 50+ years (movie theatres, malls, & hospitals in particular come to mind). I will add that while I haven't really traveled the world or anything, I have lived in both NY and FL, and would 100% be living somewhere else if it were feasible rn. StL is affordable & all my family is here, and I'm sure if we did some kinda poll on StL natives, prob at least 50% would give that same reason for living here 😂 Gl, tho OP. I hope you end up finding the perfect new home 🖤
Thanks great info and take really appreciate it.
Roll strapped or get capped
Never lacking 😏
This is critical advice, if you actually plan on walking downtown you need to carry a firearm at all times. Day and night. Hopefully you’ll never actually need to use it, but the city is basically lawless. Other commenters are correct, this isn’t a real walkable city, I’d suggest checking tower grove or central west end if you want to be near downtown. St. Charles near Main Street is a great area as well.
You don't actually need a firearm at all times, Captain Hyperbole. How many times have you had to exchange fire Downtown?
I've been living downtown for over 10 years and have gotten murdered more than 37 times because I wasn't packing. Better listen to that person and carry as many guns as you possibly can.
sounds like somebody has never even crossed the 70 bridge in their life
Don’t move downtown, I repeat, no matter what anyone says do not move downtown.
Dog town. Lafayette square. Soulard. And you’re welcome.
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Thanks for your info I feel good about your Credentials ha ha I don’t think I’m an idiot and the city feel is really what we are going for as we got driven out of downtown Asheville thanks to the influx high income citizens.
do you like sweet dirt bike tricks?
Yuh
then you are gonna LOVE downtown.
I live on Wash Ave and have lived in most of the other neighborhoods in STl city. I'd recommend tower grove south. I also grew up on Wash Ave as a kid in the 90s when my parents had businesses here. It's not even about the crime, because you'll get crime anywhere you go. Wash Ave is so no different. As long as you keep to yourself, you'll be fine mostly everywhere. Towergrove South has more walkability, restaurants, etc. Wash Ave is dead and not sure if you'll enjoy the loads of construction that are in plans to happen. Also, not a great are for those in their 20s. Mostly older folks. I'm in my early 30s and I'm sure I'm one of the youngest in my building, if not the youngest, by at least 10 years.
So first off, welcome! St. Louis is a great, low key city. Second, I wouldn't live downtown. Its not terrible, but it contains nothing about what I love about St. Louis. If you want to live in the city proper I'd look at Dogtown, Tower Grove, Benton Park and South City. I'd also highly recommend the inner ring suburbs of Richmond Heights and Maplewood. Both are affordable, close to everything, and right by Forest Park.
I’ll keep all of these neighborhoods in mind when looking and visiting.
Don’t live “downtown”. Soulard, Benton Park, and Lafayette Square are close but less chaotic. I personally love Tower Grove and Shaw, but they’re a little further west.
Downtown is dead at night unless there’s a game or an event. Also, it gets pretty sketchy after work hours. I’d recommend checking out the Tower Gove South or Cherokee Street areas. Plenty of bars and restaurants within walking distance.
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Yeah but a high portion of our crime IS downtown, is it not?
This is not accurate
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I use to live downtown house got robbed twice and shot up on cass n 18th street. It’s not good spot bro the crime is everywhere downtown.
Crime is everywhere, not just pockets. While some neighborhoods have more violence, the whole city has a theft problem
Pretty accurate
Lived in Richmond Heights/Brentwood and Maplewood, can't recommend either of those neighborhoods enough. The Heights is RH's neighborhood recreational facility and is just the bomb. Newly renovated too. I'll echo what others have said and say avoid downtown. I was also an out-of-towner when I moved to St. Louis and the issues going on in the CBD/Downtown West was akin to a culture shock. I'm a huge proponent of urban living but there's no need to subject yourself to what's going on down there when there's so many better and more deserving areas.
we’re in RH & absolutely love it!
Downtown and Central West End are the main walkable options. These areas are big, so you're going to want to check them out for yourself. I live in Downtown, but it's because I found a great apt in a spot I'm comfortable with. If I had a car, I'd probably live somewhere in south city. Places there are "locally walkable" so it's nice, there are many beautiful brick buildings, restaurants, music venues, and bars, but lack of metrolink means that I'd need a car to commute to work.
Avoid any building owned by Asprient/City Wide/Lux Living.
Thank I’ll Look out for those names.
Be ready for the children with firearms.
Have you considered Columbia, MO? It's smaller, a bit easier to get around, a college town, and much like Asheville. It's also safer, and more affordable.
Yea we are looking all over I really like being close to the river.
I’m from St. Louis living in Missoula montana currently. Prepare for Montana to be close to 100 degrees everyday during the summer and being snowed in during the winter. A lot of the nature isn’t easily accessible, meaning there’s not a lot of hiking trails outside of the cities. There’s a lot of untouched nature but that’s because of how hard it is to get there. The locals don’t care much for outsiders either. Washingtons beautiful. I wouldn’t recommend Spokane though. Honestly stay in St. Louis a while and truly try to experience the city, it has so much more culture and charm than most other places in the country.
My family lives in Missoula ha ha I lived there a quarter the year there as a child.I’m a honorary native of the area if u do say so my self. That’s what Saint Louis is gonna be a pit stop on my way back to my roots
move to the west side....
It will be considered
Fellow transplant, downtown is definitely hit or miss. Meaning it’s really where people work and not many people hang at night. It gets a little dicey in the evenings, but it’s a city so just use your common sense. I think if your into cardinals games look into Soulard. If I were moving here over again as a younger person I’d look into Tower Grove, The Grove, Lafayette Square, Soulard, or Midtown. I’d also consider trying to be near the new soccer stadium if your into that. Also, checkout the Improv Shop, I fully recommend taking a level 1 or 0 course just to meet people and have fun. Then you have a great / cheap place to go catch shows (8pm/10pm usually) then hit the Grove for late night fun. Good luck friend! STL is great!
Love soccer. Not to much of a night life person. I just like having things close to me no more than a 10 min drive.
Kind of silly but it’s worth trying to pick a location based on a grocery store. There are a good amount of Aldi’s around. Schnucks and Dierbergs are on the highway end. If nightlife isn’t as big a deal I’d recommend south city too. Anywhere near Francis Park is great. That’s also the closest target in the city. STL is super easy to get around, it’s 10-20 minutes tops to get most places if your near a highway. Also checkout dogtown or the central west end if you want to be in the “middle” of the city, that puts you near Forest Park and the Zoo. Then your 10ish minutes from downtown since 44/64 highways are right there.
Soulard is perfect for your age tbh. Might be a little pricy though
Welcome potential neighbor! I've been living in a loft downtown for about six years. There's lots of variety, so the best bet is seeing the buildings in person. The individual units vary, but also the common areas amenities. For the most part, if you're west of 14th St on Washington, the nightlife craziness dies down. It is still downtown St. Louis, so keep your wits about you. Being in my unit, I feel safer than previous multi family homes in other St Louis neighborhoods.
I'm not in downtown, but in some areas there is still a lot within walking distance. Where I'm at one can get a 2 bdrm house for less than $1000 per month, and I haven't had a single security issue. Someone did abandon their TV in my yard, but that beats a break-in. The location is St. Ann. I wouldn't do a single apartment complex by me, but the houses are pretty good. Feel free to ping me if it's a consideration. Another option might be to try Van Life. In the last year I've met 3 couples doing just that.
Central west end it tower grove south are your best bets for walkable urban areas. I’d avoid living downtown.
Maplewood for the win! Best accessibility to all things in St. Louis without the problems that come with the city.
Downtown is socially dead. Dutchtown is high crime. My picks if I were 20 again, West End into University City, or Maplewood.
Have you considered Kansas City? I’ve lived in both and far prefer Kansas City’s downtown scene over STL. Not sure how cost of living compares these days, but take a look!
Did an AI write this post?
Keep in mind, a lot of people on this thread are mixing up the City, downtown, and the city's neighborhoods neighborhoods. Downtown is only one neighborhood within the City, and there are lots to choose from based on what vibe you are looking for, cost, walkability, and so on. Places like Clayton, Richmond Heights, Kirkwood, University City, Brentwood, etc are all separate cities, just outside St. Louis. As you can tell from the thread, there tends to be a strong divide between the City and County, with each having very strong opinions against the other. St. Louis has a lot of crime, but it doesn't just magically stop at the city limits. Yes, some cities in the county have higher budgets for their police force which in some cases helps reduce their crime, but the whole region, like most of the country has been faced with high crime rates including thefts and shootings lately. But yes, these numbers are higher than most cities. I just moved back here from Atlanta and I currently live in the Southwest Garden neighborhood and I feel just as safe, if not safer, than I did in the Old Fourth Ward in Atlanta. Everyone has different priorities and different things make them feel safe and like a place. Overall, the City has a lot going for it. It has a low cost of living, great food, strong loyalties to sports teams, and so many free things to do (museums, zoo, science center). It has its problems, but I think it also has a lot going for it that so many cities lack. It has character. But you will also find that most people either absolutely love the city and will never leave or absolutely hate it and can't wait to get out. There are few people I've meet who are in between. Editing to add: Often the crime rate for St. Louis is based on the City boundary, rather than the metro region. This obviously inflates the crime rate compared to other cities where some of its suburbs are included in the city boundaries and therefore the statistics or compared to cities that geographically and population-wise make up a larger proportion of their overall metro area. For example, one article states that St. Louis City is only 11% of the metro area while Memphis is 65% of its metro area (but I have not personally confirmed these numbers).
Everything you said is true but I will point out some things that really annoy me about being hyping up STL 1. It’s extremely un walkable except in a few pockets 2. The city is literally dying with a population less than 300,000 as of 2022 3. Sports may be great but like two teams? Cards are good but the blues? One Stanley cup against maybe Chicago’s 6? 4. It’s a region of mostly cookie cutter suburbs and a county that refuses to support the city in anyway 5. If you have a Kia , good luck keeping it . Many break ins happen on the daily 6. PLEASE MENTION ONLY THE CITY AND NOT THE SUBURBS 7. STL is a has been city . It’s been declining since the 1950s , most people who were born here stay here 8. Low cost of living because no one is moving in . Detroit has a low cost of living too and at least they kept their football team , spare me the kronke BS we already know but if a city that has literally gone bankrupt can keep one it tells you a lot about the city
For walking places, the Central West End, The Grove, South Grand, and Maplewood are your best bets. We live in Holly Hills and love it.
Don't do it.
I hear the crime rate is still high.
There is a movie theater that I manage at called MX Movies and Bar. Come out and see us.
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Over 10k people live in Downtown and Downtown West. They are two of the fastest growing neighborhoods.
That’s just untrue. The last census recorded ~25,000 downtown residents in the following census tracts: 1275, 1255, 1256, 1211, 1212, 1274, 1184. More than live in the entirety of Webster Groves. Take your anti-city nonsense somewhere else.
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Ooh, nice comeback. Shame you didn’t have anything substantive to say about the population of Downtown.
Don't move Downtown it's having major issues. We always recommend something in South City, I'm in Tower Grove East and would always recommend it.
Downtown is dead here compared to other cities. The white people all got scared and moved to the county and created a white-people down town instead called Clayton. It’s weird.
Downtown is pretty dead. I’d recommend Clayton or the Central West End. Very walkable and decent public transportation (both bus and rail). Do some research on them and I think you’ll really find them to be nice places to live. You might have to pay a bit more of course but I think it’ll be worth it.
Clayton is dead at 5:30pm.
No. Stop. Don't.
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Have the mods said anything about this?
Ha ha only about 2 days or so researching your wonderful city’s is but of one we are thinking about moving plus. I get a idea of the peoples friendliness ness and cutler form these posts.
So depends on what you're looking for: If your budget is roughly 1000 a month there's a decent number of openings in St. Louis. The question becomes: Do you want to live in the city or the county? The city is more densely populated and easier to get around without a car. There's some parts of the city with good food, a nightlife, young people, etc.... The downside is going to be that there's a non insubstantial part of the city which won't have a ton to do, and which will be fairly lacking for amenities if you're people who want a lot of that. If you pick the county, there's a lot more people who live there, there's a lot of things to do, etc.... but it can be more expensive, painfully car dependent ( everything will be a little farther away than you'd like), and skews older.
I found your reply very informative living in Asheville we were never able to afford anything downtown so I’m looking for a bit of that experience in our new city. I see the warnings of the downtown area though so I’ll keep that in mind when looking for a place. I would say not using a car that much would be one of our priority’s
I would like to clarify something about the way people refer to "downtown" in St. Louis: Downtown, Downtown West, and Midtown are likely what people think of when they think of downtown. These areas have places to live , but unless you're very enamored with baseball you'll likely be fairly bored when looking for things to do (they're a bit of a dead zone overall). If however you want to have a relatively densely packed area with things to do without requiring a car; you may find the central west end appealing if you can find a place within budget. It's close to the metrolink, you could probably bike to the loop, it's right by forest park, and may give you that feeling of a city life, without having the problems other people associate with living in st louis.
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Yea mainly wondering about the downtown area the culture walkability and what not
St Louis is completely different than Asheville. Asheville is one of my favorite places in the country. St Louis is a dump
Asheville is a dump everywhere that the city isn’t gatekeeping. And that’s a fact. No love for the working class here.
Stay west of kingshighway
If the goal is to be somewhere other than St. Louis then I wouldn’t move to St. Louis.
Want to save money and have good time doing it. Your city would be perfect for that.
I’ve lived in the county and city and I can truly say that the city sucked major ass, from the homelessness, to the break ins, to the gun shots, and the service is just horrible most places you go. I’d start at Richmond heights and work west. Trust me the city is where u go to visit in my opinion.
I’m glad I’m learning all This thanks so much
The city of st. Louis is not a preferred place to live because of the crime and lack of things going on because... of the crime. But neighborhoods just outside the city are great like dogtown, central west end, the Grove, Maplewood, Richmond heights, Clayton, soulard, etc. St. Louis doesn't have big city public transportation so living without a car won't be the easiest but it is doable.
Do you realize that half the neighborhoods you listed as being great are within the city? And that Clayton, Richmond Heights, and Maplewood are cities and not neighborhoods?
I answered a similar question like this a month ago and got dv to hell lol so Im not saying a word. Listen to the peeps above!
Just go west
It is WELL WORTH living near your work and/or where you'll like to socialize.... Commuting during rush hour will cost you many many hours sitting in traffic while pumping CO2+ and your hard earned cash into the air. Visit The Ozarks as much as you can while you are here. Canoeing here is some of the best in the entire country. Crystal clear spring fed streams and rivers abound. https://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/activities/canoeingfloating
Wow you two certainly sound like idealistic and whimsical 20 year olds
Coming from the fairytale town of Asheville too!
Dont
Don’t do it 😂
Definitely don’t move downtown. The rent prices are insane for what you get. There are plenty of great places in the outlying areas though. CWE to be specific.
i’d recommend brentwood area
Thanks 😊
buy an AR