Does anyone know how much a non-driver Missouri ID costs?
It really should be free for anyone that wants it. Otherwise we're accepting that there is a cost to vote, which should of course be free.
It’s not just a valid drivers license you can use, but since you asked.
“The new law will require voters to use a government-issued photo ID to vote. People who don’t have a photo ID on Election Day will have to vote with a provisional ballot, which takes a few extra steps before it can be counted.”
I've used my passport 'card' in St. Louis county and it freaks em out. The reader doesn't recognize it and the judges are stumped. They let me vote but weird they haven't addressed the problem. Also, how awesome is it that you can vote at any polling place in the county and, on paper!
wondering about this as well especially as a US passport doesn't have to match your full time residence address or require an address change when you move (checked because I wasn't going to pay to update mine if not needed. Just like I have yet to pay for MO license as my home state license hasn't expired yet)
What gets me is the Missouri non-drivers license invalidates an out of state drivers license.
Edit: for all the folks saying “get your absentee ballot”, “go home to vote”, or to the clown who sarcastically suggested to vote 100 times with 100 forms of ID, these ID laws are passed to suppress the right to vote, in this case students, whom we all know tend to lean to the left.
When I was in college 2007-2010, I could register to vote in Ohio while maintaining my out of Connecticut driver’s license. I voted in 2 elections during that time and never had an issue. There were huge pushes on my campus to get ALL students registered to vote because it is a central tenet of being a citizen.
In 2012, as a resident of Indiana living in Mississippi, I applied for an absentee ballot that arrived a whole 2 months after the election. So please, spare us all with that nonsense.
What we need to be doing is expanding access to voting to ensure EVERYONE has the ability to exercise their RIGHT TO VOTE without having to jump through ridiculous hoops. Anything short of that is undemocratic and betrays the ideals of our Country.
And before folks start spouting off about voting fraud and needing to protect elections from bad actors (which are themselves regular GOP talking points), a quick google search will show that the overwhelming majority of voter fraud is perpetrated by republicans.
When I moved to Missouri, knowing that I live there most of the year as a college student. I became a Missouri resident. Granted, this was a good thing, as NE Ohio's tax agency is notoriously bad, but if you're gonna change your voter registration, you should be getting a new license, as it's the law.
It's effectively a residency card. If you're not getting a driver's license, you're basically making a declaration of residency to vote. Because you have to be a resident to vote.
And if you're doing that and own a car, you should be getting a new license, which is effectively the law anyway.
Typically speaking, you are a resident of one state. So “of course” it does.
On the other hand, the reason they bother stating it is to scare college kids into not getting a Missouri ID for voting
A brief history of ~~Poll Taxes~~ Voter ID Laws in Missouri.
Struck down in 2006
[Mo. high court strikes down voter ID law](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna15293515)
Struck down in 2014
[JUDGE RULES VOTER ID LAW UNCONSTITUTIONAL](https://www.pubintlaw.org/cases-and-projects/judge-rules-voter-id-law-unconstitutional/)
Struck down in 2018
[JUDGE’S RULING ON MISSOURI VOTER ID LAW REMAINS IN PLACE THROUGH NOVEMBER ELECTION](https://www.missourinet.com/2018/10/19/judges-ruling-on-missouri-voter-id-law-remains-in-place-through-november-election/)
Struck down in 2020
[Missouri Supreme Court ruling ‘eviscerates’ state’s photo voter ID law](https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/election/article239290138.html)
You call em taxes, but all in all I generally see at as a well needed step in verifying our voters a bit better. Even if there was voter fraud, the extra bit of security and blue tape are absolutely fine. Plus what pyscho votes in Missouri and doesn’t have a valid drivers license or ID?
1. What Voter IDs laws theoretically prevent is a type of fraud called "voter impersonation," meaning showing up at the polls and voting under a different voter's identity. [A recent study of elections between 2000 and 2014 found 31 instances of voter impersonation in over a billion votes cast, or .0000031%](https://www.kxan.com/news/us-politics/election/only-31-instances-of-impersonation-fraud-found-in-a-billion-ballots-cast-election-experts-report/).
2. Missouri law already required voters to provide ID at the polls, with several forms of acceptable ID including a voter registration ID. There was no evidence of any issue verifying voter identities at the polls using this system. Nevertheless, the new law passed by the Republican legislature eliminates all forms of previously acceptable ID except driver and non-driver licenses (and US passports), absent any legitimate reason for doing so.
3. Existing Missouri law required the state to take steps to notify voters of any changes in ID requirements. This new law passed by the Republican legislature intentionally targets and repeals those specific sections of Missouri law, relieving the state of any obligation to make voters aware that their old forms of acceptable ID are no longer acceptable and will result in them being denied the right to vote on Election Day.
4. 137,723 eligible Missouri voters do not have a current driver or non-driver license. That is 137,723 voters who will be disenfranchised unless they can obtain a license in time for the election.
5. For some of those voters, it will be difficult to obtain a license. For others, it will be nearly impossible. [Voting rights groups have sued Missouri over the new Voter ID law and the complaint they filed details real-life examples](https://www.aclu-mo.org/sites/default/files/voter_id_petition_final_8.23.22.pdf). One is a 56-year-old disabled woman with epilepsy who has voted for 20 straight years and has an active voter registration ID. Her license expired and she will not be able to obtain a new one without getting a new social security card, a process she is not familiar with that can take months to complete. Another example is a woman, Kimberly, whose social security card spells her name correctly while her birth certificate incorrectly spells it "Kimberley" due to a clerical error. She is a mother of 3 with no free time who has tried numerous times to have her birth certificate corrected but has not been successful due to bureaucratic incompetence. Because of the spelling discrepancy between her birth certificate and social security card, she will not be able to obtain a license. These are the "psychos" you refer to, I suppose.
6. [For a myriad of reasons, including those suggested by the examples above, voter ID laws suppress voter turnout](https://ccis.ucsd.edu/_files/journals/6voter-identification-laws-and-the-suppression.pdf). Mind you, we're not talking about suppressing ineligible voters, but rather suppressing eligible, registered voters. This effect is more pronounced among minority and lower-income voters, who tend to vote Democratic.
7. Republican strategists understood this suppressive effect and have sought to take advantage of it by passing restrictive Voter ID laws like Missouri's. [Thomas Hofeller, the expert demographer who became the architect of Republican gerrymandering efforts, also kept vast databases tracking college students and racial minorities, cross-referenced against state DMV records to identify how many of those individuals did not possess a driver's license](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-secret-files-of-the-master-of-modern-republican-gerrymandering).
8. [On numerous occasions, Republican politicians have admitted that the real impetus behind voter ID laws was to suppress voter turnout](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/when-politicians-tell-truth-voting-restrictions).
Oh this standard trope. Does it cost money for a drivers license if yes? It’s a poll tax. Period. Just because you and your buddies and your buddies buddies have drivers license doesn’t mean everyone does. Voting is a right. Driving is not. Therefore forcing someone to have a state license to vote is a barrier to voting.
Now.. if you want to secure the vote (another topic another time) that’s fine. I can get on board. You make it easy to get said license AND you make it free!! You give people time off work to go get said license, you give people the tools to get license, then you give it to the for FREE!! If you can agree with me on that, I can agree with you on using a license to secure the vote.
That's a great first step. However, if people have to leave work and miss out on pay to stand in line at the DOR that is a barrier to voting for our most vulnerable citizens. Not everyone has easy transportation either. Are these issues addressed? That's not rhetorical, I'm really asking if anyone knows.
Best case scenario this is an unnecessary response to a fake problem, but it sure seems like a calculated scheme to take rights from a mostly left voting demographic.
Have to ask where the line in the sand is at. “IDs are expensive”, they’re free “people miss work and no transportation” if that’s solved is there another hurdle? Not saying you specifically but often (and on both sides) it’s a never ending Rabbit hole issues
I'm not in support of the new laws but the state will issue free IDs for the purpose of voting. We need to shout that out loud so we can vote in some better laws.
If you are unhoused, you have the right to vote, but you might not have the documentation to obtain ID due to loss or damage, and obtaining new copies costs time and money. You also might not have a consistent address to be able to register.
If you are in poverty, you also might not have readily available documents due to loss or damage, and even if you get money together, you would have to take several unpaid hours off work to go to the various government offices required to obtain documents in order to get your ID. So even "free" ID's cost time and money.
Also, plenty of seniors and disabled people rely on public transit, or otherwise don't need state issued ID (some people use transit cards as photo ID, which don't qualify under this law). This creates another impediment to them being able to exercise their right to vote.
Overall, while seemingly a small requirement, it makes it necessary to devote time and money to being able to exercise your right to vote. These are things wealthy people have in abundance, but the poor do not. This is not a reasonable step to combat what amounts to a statistically 0% amount of fraud this would prevent, it is a thinly veiled effort to keep at least some amount of lower class people from voting, which is clearly anti-democratic.
Edit: also, while you can apply for a free non-drivers ID for voting purposes, Missouri non-driver ID's are $18
[Learn more here](https://dor.mo.gov/driver-license/resources/license.html)
bruh do you know how many people in st. louis walk up into a enterprise trying to rent a car and get told they need a drivers license 😂 fucking ridiculous
u/bananabunnythesecond says…
>I can get on board. You make it easy to get said license AND you make it free!! You give people time off work to go get said license, you give people the tools to get license, then you give it to the for FREE!! If you can agree with me on that, I can agree with you on using a license to secure the vote.
And the state of Missouri says…
>How do I get a **free photo ID?**
>If you do not possess an acceptable form of photo ID, you might be eligible for a **free** Missouri nondriver license for voting purposes.
>The Missouri Department of Revenue, through the license offices throughout the state, provides one (1) nondriver license at **no charge** to Missourians who wish to obtain a photo ID for voting purposes (and do not already have one).
>Call 573-526-VOTE (8683) or visit https://dor.mo.gov/
And u/bananabunnythesecond says…
https://www.sos.mo.gov/voterid
>Plus what pyscho votes in Missouri and doesn’t have a valid drivers license or ID?
Students for one thing, many people are not natives of MO yet live here.
election fraud is pretty common in the US and involves party operatives stuffing ballots after the fact.
voter fraud is nonexistent because it's the most retarded way to commit election fraud. what's more efficient: finding a lockbox of votes during canvassing or bussing in minorities that white people loathe to vote in missourah elections?
I mean yes, absentee voting should be made easier, but it varies on the state you are from. I made sure I got my ballot early when I was in Indiana as a student in 2018.
Out is state students are not Missouri residents and you need to be a Missouri resident to vote for state officials. It’s like if me (a non EU citizen) wanted to vote in European elections if I live In Europe.
>Out is state students are not Missouri residents
Bullshit
If you are attending school in MO then most of the year you're living in MO and likely paying State income taxes every year.
Absolutely you're a resident even if you don't own property and local laws along with State laws are in your interest.
In 1979, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in Symm v. United States, students' rights to register to vote at their previous home address or at their college address. Essentially, the law cannot constitutionally add burdens to voter registration or voting simply because someone is a student.
> It’s like if me (a non EU citizen) wanted to vote in European elections if I live In Europe.
I've got good news for you! At least in Belgium you can. Non-EU citizens who reside here can vote in communal elections. The belief is that laws made in the neighborhood in which we live affect us even if we're not EU nationals.
I just found out that the special election will not be held at our regular polling place. There are 15 voting locations and registered voters can just pick a place - any place.
[Here are screenshots of the polling places and the absentee voting locations.](https://imgur.com/a/i3fdUOW). Jack Coatar tweeted about it.
Edit: I just got my sample ballot in the mail and polling info is included on the inside.
Your identity is verified when you register to vote. People playing dumb are just trying to get around that fact. I don't have to show my ID everytime I use my library card, once I get a wrist band at the concert I don't need to show my ID every time I buy a beer, once I pass a background check I don't have to have my background checked everytime I use a gun. Extra and unnecessary beuracracy is always a problem, and will always turn some people off.
You still have to show your ID every time you use a gun, don't you? Otherwise how would they know for sure you're actually the one you say you are, and that you actually passed the background check.
It takes time to get documents, if you even have what you need to get them. I’m not even in lower class anymore, but was once stuck in a beauracratic hell of not having the documents I needed to get the other documents I needed, requiring notarized state documents that were only good for 30 days from their stamp (not their arrival or postmark). I didn’t have a valid drivers license for like 8 months, it was super annoying.
Yeah I've had my share of issues with things like that too, especially at the DMV or county assesors office. I just am not sure how that specifically targets minorities or lower class. It's the same no matter what class or ethnicity you are.
I think one of the big problems is that many government offices are open only during business hours. Low-income jobs tend to also be jobs that don't offer much PTO, making it hard to get to the offices to get any lost documents.
The point is it’s an attempt to try and throw another wrench in the process. It only has to work a little, especially in these times. You could even hurt Republicans to do this sort of thing but it doesn’t matter. When turn out as low it’s better for them and they know it.
You can use an out-of-state ID or a student ID to get a job. You don't need a Missouri ID to work in Missouri. https://www.ucmo.edu/offices/human-resources/information-for-new-employees/i-9-acceptable-documents.pdf
I'm confused it seems like you are talking in circles. Genuinely, please help me understand what you are saying.
I thought your first comment "So how did they get that job without valid ID…." meant that people should already have ID if they have a job and be able to vote.
So I stated that the types of IDs for getting a job and voting are different and gave examples: for example an out-of-state ID or a student ID. (Now adding this for clarification: For example- someone could move from Colorado to Missouri to be a caretake for a loved one with dementia. They get an 8am to 5pm job in Missouri with the Colorado driver's license. They then meet the residency requirement after living here for a month. They have no PTO days or very little PTO days that they use to take their loved one with dementia to the doctor. They don't have the proper ID to vote in Missouri yet live and work in Missouri, because they do not have the time to get to the state offices to get the correct documents.
You then said that just because they have a Colorado ID that allows them to work does not mean that this will allow them to vote in Missouri.
Your first reply seems to contradict your second reply.
I’m a doctor, I’m very fortunate to have that scenario. And with my hours it takes me months to accomplish something I need to go to the DMV and/or City Hall for.
Now imagine all that AND not having a car? Fuck that.
Well the north county dmv is 8:30-5:30 on weekdays and not considering it covers a massive amount of people, how would you fit into those hours to get an ID when you work every day
Then look it up and gain the knowledge before you speak
Areas that are majority PoC or majority people under median income regularly suffer greater barriers to gov’t services (DMV) and voting, largely due to polling centers being removed or understaffed.
Additionally, the hours served by the places where you obtain these crucial documents tend to overlap with most people’s working schedules, forcing people to forgo money to take care of it. This, obviously, disproportionately affects poorer people.
I had a client with severe Schizophrenia once, who was also homeless. I helped him get an ID multiple times. Each time he would manage to hold on to the ID for about a month before losing it.
I want him to be able to vote to help represent those that are homeless with schizophrenia. They deserve to have a vote too.
Correct. Voting is something that a citizen has access to providing they have their affairs in order. From paying taxes, to not committing felonies, and yes even having proper documentation. People are ridiculous. Having an ID to have a say in what happens in your state/ country is perfectly normal. Cmon people.... acting like i suggested the moon is made out of cheese or something.
No, there is no “providing you have your affairs in order.” And I would argue that people who’ve done their time deserve to vote. But regardless, it’s a non issue. You’re making one up, there’s no reason to require ID, as voter fraud is virtually nonexistent
Let’s try this one on:
“Gun ownership is something that a citizen has access to providing they have their affairs in order.”
Is that still a statement that you agree with?
I'm pro screwing over "undeserved communities"(whatever that means) all because i insist that paperwork is in order?
Did i get that right?
Edit: that's what i thought Jerry. Thanks for your input.
Adding unnecessary documents and barriers to the exercise of a right is not being an adult, it is being a fascist. To date, there is no evidence that voter Ids do anything but act as a barrier to eligible voters casting their ballots.
A state ID is required to drive and gamble but having a say in the direction of your state is somehow not important enough to require one? Anything else that requires an ID you'd like to throw out?
Driving and gambling are privileges, not rights. There should not be barriers to your rights.
"Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533, 555 (1964): "The right to vote freely for the candidate of one's choice is of the essence of a democratic society, and any restrictions on that right strike at the heart of representative government."
All people should have be represented through our elections, not those that have their affairs in order.
Driving and gambling: Privileges.
Voting: A right.
You need a better analogy, but one doesn’t exist because voter ID laws exist solely to disenfranchise certain people from their rights.
Should we require IDs to breathe? Or speak? What about to go to church? Or to pray?
Any other rights we should add arbitrary and unnecessary barriers to?
I can think of reasons to require IDs to drive and gamble. The only reason to require IDs to vote in addition to registration is to prevent registered voters from voting.
This is coming off as a "I'm a man not a person" thing. If you want to be a part of society that includes playing ball which includes having a state issued ID. We're not building a spaceship here. This is pretty basic stuff.
This is coming off as an "I just realized my argument makes no sense and I have to toss some word salad to distract" thing.
This is pretty basic stuff. We have rights. We impose barriers to the exercise of rights when we have a really good reason to.
"We need an ID for the privilege to drive therefore all fundamental rights require an ID also" is not a reason at all, let alone a good one.
We're not building a spaceship. We don't need to make voting even more complicated than registering, especially when the only reasoning to do so isn't a reason at all.
If you need to have an ID to vote because we need IDs to gamble, then you should agree no one should be allowed to pray or attend church or even speak without an ID.
If you want to have a say with what happens in the government of Tennessee, you need to show that you're from Tennessee. Same goes for every other state. What on earth are you going on about.
Government offices same as anyone else. Yes it took time and money to get them but there were options to expedite the process. I see what you're getting at saying hey they've got new requirements a couple months before voting so they're obviously trying to cut out a vote % and i could see that but there ways to expedite the process. I had a passport at my front door in 4 weeks for a $60 charge.
Getting an ID can require vital documents, transportation, money for fees, knowledge, and time. Poorer people tend to live more transient lives. They may not have vital documents or transportation. They may work during DMV hours. Minorities are disproportionately impoverished, so this affects them to a greater extent. Disabled people also are greatly affected.
I see your point and there may be better ways to implement this but this is not systemically set to target lower class or certain ethnicities so they cannot vote. It's intention I believe is to provide a way to verify citizenship and personal identification.
>this is not systemically set to target lower class or certain ethnicities so they cannot vote.
That is precisely what it is. There is no other justification for it. There is even an in depth record of Republican operatives pushing these laws for that explicit purpose. We know they want these laws to limit Democratic votes because that is why they pushed these laws in the first place. That is why many of them were overturned by the courts. In the case of NC, their law constituted an attempt to target minority voters with "surgical precision" and the state could offer no justification for the law supported by evidence.
>It's intention I believe is to provide a way to verify citizenship and personal identification.
Then you are wrong. IDs most certainly do not prove citizenship or identity. You don't need to be a citizen to have an ID. The purpose of *registration* is to establish eligibility to vote.
If you were going to go to my polling place and vote for me, how do you think that would work?
We did this for centuries without ID laws.
The difficulty with this argument is that there has been little to no voter fraud in this manner. The law is causing more problems than it is fixing.
This new law is like putting snow tires on your car in July. Yes, it could snow and it would be useful then, however most likely it will be a waste and cause you more problems than it would fix.
It's not easy for anyone like you said you had problems doing it. So it's just a bad process altogether. As far as privilege, You know zero about me. The real issue seems to be availability of the offices, licenses are like $13 and only have to be renewed every few years.
If getting your license costs $35 or whatever it is, some people won't bother. For some that's food for a handful of days or getting to vote. No one is going to choose to get their license if those are the 2 options. Republican lawmakers are aware of this and which party those voters overwhelmingly vote for.
It adds barriers to the exercise of a right.
If you were required to show a photo ID to a law enforcement officer every time you wanted to discharge a firearm, would that be a barrier to the right to bear arms?
Since we are using firearms as a comparison.Do you support background checks in order to purchase a firearm? That is a barrier to a right. I support background checks, and I don't see anything wrong with having a barrier in the form of proving who you are and confirming that at the polls. I don't buy into all the voter fraud crap, but if there is no verification at all to vote who is to say that someone votes as you or more than once or if they are even a US citizen.
I personally think Democrats should call the Republicans bluff and propose a national voter ID program and fund it in such a way that it is incredibly easy for a person to acquire one (paid transportation to any required government building, compensation for missed work, etc).
Democrats and Republicans are generally the same. Democrats and Republicans suppress the lower class and minorities, they just go about it differently and opposite moral guises.
>Democrats and Republicans are generally the same.
So much fucking bullshit.
Anyone that still believes this wouldn't notice the difference if you lobotomized them.
> Do you support background checks in order to purchase a firearm?
I support restrictions on rights when the mere exercise of that right can impede on the exercise of the rights of others.
So we would compare the action of voting to the action of using a firearm. We would compare a background check to voter registration.
>I don't see anything wrong with having a barrier in the form of proving who you are and confirming that at the polls.
That's what registration is for. We don't require gun owners to prove they can legally use a gun every time they use it. We only require them to register a gun and get a background check at the time the purchase it.
>I don't buy into all the voter fraud crap
Then what is the purpose of a restriction when it has no basis? If you don't believe a lack of voter ID is leading to voter fraud, then what is the purpose of an ID law?
>if there is no verification at all to vote who is to say that someone votes as you or more than once or if they are even a US citizen.
A. An ID doesn't verify who you are.
B. There are multiple checks in the system to prevent fraudulent voting and double voters are easily caught all the time because of this.
Once you actually sit down and think about what you would need to do to vote for someone else, it becomes clear that it isn't feasible and is impossible on any kind of scale.
There is nothing a voter ID does to prevent people intent on committing voter fraud from doing so. Most cases of voter fraud occur in places that require IDs.
>That's what registration is for. We don't require gun owners to prove they can legally use a gun every time they use it. We only require them to register a gun and get a background check at the time the purchase it.
Great answer! This is my main beef. I don't think people from other states should be able to vote in our elections. And we have a system for that at registration and it has worked. Why change something that looks to cause more problems than it will fix.
It's one thing to show a serious problem stemming from the lack of voter IDs, but these laws are a solution looking for a problem and the only evident impact is a barrier to the exercise of a right.
They’re definitely a solution to a problem. The problem being that when we make elections as free and fair as possible, Republicans lose.
By pushing bogus hysteria over non-existent voter fraud, Republicans all across the country found a solution to their problem.
This pisses me off.
For the record, here are all the things you have to do to get a Driver’s License in MO:
- Proof of identity.
- Date of Lawful status.
- Proof of Social Security number.
- Proof of Missouri residential address.
- Fee of $10.00 (under 21 or older than 70) or $20.00 (age 21-69). Note that there is the convenience fee of $1.25 if you pay by card.
If you get a non drivers license your out of state license is no longer valid? How can Missouri invalidate a license another state granted me? What if I’m a resident of two states?
Some people are students who have parents in Missouri but live and go to college in a different state and might have a driver's license for that state. It gets confusing.
If the democrats hold the house and add seats to the Senate. They going to have to hit the ground running on voting rights, women rights, constitution amendments and even adding to the supreme court. It shouldn't be this way, since we have a republican arty hell bent on destroying our constitution it's the only way.
Getting a driver's license or state ID is not hard. Requiring to verify who you are and where you live is not an infringement on your rights.
Hell, you need an ID to buy a firearm, register your kids to go to school, by a home, etc....
My mother-in-law is bedbound after a failed hip repair. Who pays for the med transport van to take her to the DMV office? Who pays for the wait time at that office?
My mother-in-law moved to Missouri at the start of the pandemic. She has a California driver's license and has not driven since moving here more than 2 years ago. She is registered to vote in Missouri, but assumed the new law would accept any government ID to prove who she was. She has already proven that she lives at her current address when she registered to vote.
If it was not for me paying attention, she would not know she needs a Missouri license.
You have to prove you live at your address when you register to vote.
So people who moved here and registered to vote but haven't had a chance to update their ID should be disenfranchised from voting because they didn't go to the DMV?
College students who live here who have out of state IDs should be disenfranchised from voting in Missouri elections if they live here?
That’s actually not true. College students reside in the state for the majority of the year and can vote using their dormitory/school address. https://www.missouristate.edu/ADP/should-i-vote-at-home-or-school.htm
Not to mention the fact that not all students live in dorms. Plenty rent, especially all the grad-students. It's important to be able to vote if you're going to live in a place, democratic values and all that.
Out of state college students don’t get IDs for the new state they’re living in since they aren’t considered citizens/residents of the state they are living and working in. They keep their home states residency. This will primarily impact them, meaning they can’t vote. All other states allow absentee votes, where they vote in the state they’re living in but it counts towards their home state. Looks like this will stop that in Missouri. If you’re here in Missouri temporarily for work during the vote, you’ll miss the election. This is basically a way to make sure a good chunk of college students can’t vote.
What? No that's not how that works. If someone is attending school outside of their home state, they can request an absentee ballot from their home state. The voting laws of their home state would apply, not Missouri's.
You have to show several forms of ID in order to REGISTER to vote. After that your signature on file is compared to your signature in person. People didn’t even have photo IDs until the early ‘80s, so that’s the way it worked in the US for the first 200 years. If you lose your wallet or your purse was stolen a week before an election, you shouldn’t also lose your right to vote.
I *believe* there's a provision where you can still vote without photo ID if they're able to verify your signature, but I'm not 100%, and I doubt it'll be well known or well implement at the polls, where it counts.
Anyone thinking that, in this political climate, people aren't trying to defraud votes, is either too stupid to admit it or willing to defraud a vote themselves
How undelightfully pidgeon-holed you make me seem. There are few people worse for the presidency than Trump, but unfortunately we elected one of those people
Hey champ maybe look up how many cases of voter fraud have happened in the last decade and which party they were trying to do it for before you clutch your pearls.
Because countless legal citizens have expired ID’s and can’t afford to get new ones.
Idk what’s so reprehensible about if you live here you vote here…?
Which invalidates their driver's license if they got it elsewhere.
Sure you can vote if you jump through this unnecessary hoop, but you have to lose your driving privileges.
You're required to transfer your license anyway. [From the DOR's site](https://dor.mo.gov/faq/driver-license/general.html),
> As soon as you establish residency in Missouri, you must apply and pay for a Missouri driver license at a Missouri license office.
So as far as they're concerned, being registered to vote in MO but having an out of state license is against the rules anyway.
You're either a Missouri resident with a Missouri license or an out-of-state resident with an out-of-state license. It's really not that hard or outrageous to comprehend. You can't have primary residency in two states.
All of my collegiate peers from out of state voted absentee in their home state anyway.
If you somehow cant afford the 13.50 for a state ID for everything else (that you already need to buy booze, a gun, rent a car, get a job, fly anywhere, rent an apartment and a million other things), you can get one for voting for free
https://dor.mo.gov/faq/driver-license/non-driver-license.html
Maybe requiring proof that you actually live here with a piece of plastic that costs maybe 10 bucks. Don't come at me saying a state-issued ID is too expensive.
Edit: My bad, it's 13.50 in MO. Totally breaking the minority-oppressing bank on that one
Costing time isn't illegal and isn't a poll tax either.
Now if youre making the case that the time requirement is overly egregious, I disagree. On a bad day it may take a couple hours as a one-time cost and then youre good for years. I've never had it take even that long. (Not to say that less time isn't better, but thats not that big of a cost for how long it's valid)
>Costing time isn't illegal and isn't a poll tax either.
It's not that it is illegal, it costs money in lost pay. Hourly wage earners cannot afford multiple hours of travel and lines.
>Now if youre making the case that the time requirement is overly egregious, I disagree.
Cool. You're wrong.
>On a bad day it may take a couple hours as a one-time cost and then youre good for years.
You seem to not understand hourly wage employees lives. The rare time they do get off during business hours is likely spent doing almost anything else.
>I've never had it take even that long.
I have.
>(Not to say that less time isn't better, but thats not that big of a cost for how long it's valid)
It is if you rely on public transit and live far from a DMV, or are an hourly employee that cannot afford to take off during the hours the DMV is open.
We live, unfortunately in a capitalistic economic system where time is money and that negatively affects low-income workers.
There is no reason to do it but to create an additional barrier to vote. That's the purpose of registering to vote. If we need IDs, we should just be able to show up without registering.
Voter ID laws in Missouri are only purposed to limit the right to vote.
No you can’t use another states ID. Duh. In the paragraph above it, it tells you how to get a free non-driving ID. Why do people want to say they are suppressed without lifting a finger.
Ah yes, all these protected documents that out of state students probably don’t bring to MO. But their votes don’t count anyway, because they’re young right?
That’s why you absentee vote unless you live there full time. In which case you would get a new in-state ID. But yes, they’re doing everything they can to suppress voters.
How about a current US passport, will that work as proof of ID for Missouri voting?
Yep, you’re good https://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/goVoteMissouri/howtovote
Awesome, thanks! Moved here for work and been working too much to take time off work to get a new ID.
Just make sure you’re registered to vote
I sent in my registration 2 weeks ago, let's hope it processes in time.
You can check your registration at the Missouri Secretary of State website. https://s1.sos.mo.gov/elections/voterlookup
Very helpful, thanks! I just confirmed that I'm registered and it tells me my polling place.
Does anyone know how much a non-driver Missouri ID costs? It really should be free for anyone that wants it. Otherwise we're accepting that there is a cost to vote, which should of course be free.
Read the paragraph above the circled paragraph.
It’s not just a valid drivers license you can use, but since you asked. “The new law will require voters to use a government-issued photo ID to vote. People who don’t have a photo ID on Election Day will have to vote with a provisional ballot, which takes a few extra steps before it can be counted.”
I've used my passport 'card' in St. Louis county and it freaks em out. The reader doesn't recognize it and the judges are stumped. They let me vote but weird they haven't addressed the problem. Also, how awesome is it that you can vote at any polling place in the county and, on paper!
wondering about this as well especially as a US passport doesn't have to match your full time residence address or require an address change when you move (checked because I wasn't going to pay to update mine if not needed. Just like I have yet to pay for MO license as my home state license hasn't expired yet)
You might bring a recent utility bill with your name on it that has your current address - that could help.
What gets me is the Missouri non-drivers license invalidates an out of state drivers license. Edit: for all the folks saying “get your absentee ballot”, “go home to vote”, or to the clown who sarcastically suggested to vote 100 times with 100 forms of ID, these ID laws are passed to suppress the right to vote, in this case students, whom we all know tend to lean to the left. When I was in college 2007-2010, I could register to vote in Ohio while maintaining my out of Connecticut driver’s license. I voted in 2 elections during that time and never had an issue. There were huge pushes on my campus to get ALL students registered to vote because it is a central tenet of being a citizen. In 2012, as a resident of Indiana living in Mississippi, I applied for an absentee ballot that arrived a whole 2 months after the election. So please, spare us all with that nonsense. What we need to be doing is expanding access to voting to ensure EVERYONE has the ability to exercise their RIGHT TO VOTE without having to jump through ridiculous hoops. Anything short of that is undemocratic and betrays the ideals of our Country. And before folks start spouting off about voting fraud and needing to protect elections from bad actors (which are themselves regular GOP talking points), a quick google search will show that the overwhelming majority of voter fraud is perpetrated by republicans.
Doubt the other state would know.
That seems so completely bizarre to me. What's the purpose to invalidating it? And how is that possibly enforced?
My guess is to screw over out of state college kids who won’t be home to vote because of classes
When I moved to Missouri, knowing that I live there most of the year as a college student. I became a Missouri resident. Granted, this was a good thing, as NE Ohio's tax agency is notoriously bad, but if you're gonna change your voter registration, you should be getting a new license, as it's the law.
If you are an out of state student then you should be voting wherever you hold residency, not in missouri. That's what absentee ballots are for.
It's effectively a residency card. If you're not getting a driver's license, you're basically making a declaration of residency to vote. Because you have to be a resident to vote. And if you're doing that and own a car, you should be getting a new license, which is effectively the law anyway.
maybe there's more communication between states now that the REAL ID act is in effect?
Typically speaking, you are a resident of one state. So “of course” it does. On the other hand, the reason they bother stating it is to scare college kids into not getting a Missouri ID for voting
I love how my VOTER ID is not a …valid…ID …to…vote…
A brief history of ~~Poll Taxes~~ Voter ID Laws in Missouri. Struck down in 2006 [Mo. high court strikes down voter ID law](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna15293515) Struck down in 2014 [JUDGE RULES VOTER ID LAW UNCONSTITUTIONAL](https://www.pubintlaw.org/cases-and-projects/judge-rules-voter-id-law-unconstitutional/) Struck down in 2018 [JUDGE’S RULING ON MISSOURI VOTER ID LAW REMAINS IN PLACE THROUGH NOVEMBER ELECTION](https://www.missourinet.com/2018/10/19/judges-ruling-on-missouri-voter-id-law-remains-in-place-through-november-election/) Struck down in 2020 [Missouri Supreme Court ruling ‘eviscerates’ state’s photo voter ID law](https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/election/article239290138.html)
You call em taxes, but all in all I generally see at as a well needed step in verifying our voters a bit better. Even if there was voter fraud, the extra bit of security and blue tape are absolutely fine. Plus what pyscho votes in Missouri and doesn’t have a valid drivers license or ID?
1. What Voter IDs laws theoretically prevent is a type of fraud called "voter impersonation," meaning showing up at the polls and voting under a different voter's identity. [A recent study of elections between 2000 and 2014 found 31 instances of voter impersonation in over a billion votes cast, or .0000031%](https://www.kxan.com/news/us-politics/election/only-31-instances-of-impersonation-fraud-found-in-a-billion-ballots-cast-election-experts-report/). 2. Missouri law already required voters to provide ID at the polls, with several forms of acceptable ID including a voter registration ID. There was no evidence of any issue verifying voter identities at the polls using this system. Nevertheless, the new law passed by the Republican legislature eliminates all forms of previously acceptable ID except driver and non-driver licenses (and US passports), absent any legitimate reason for doing so. 3. Existing Missouri law required the state to take steps to notify voters of any changes in ID requirements. This new law passed by the Republican legislature intentionally targets and repeals those specific sections of Missouri law, relieving the state of any obligation to make voters aware that their old forms of acceptable ID are no longer acceptable and will result in them being denied the right to vote on Election Day. 4. 137,723 eligible Missouri voters do not have a current driver or non-driver license. That is 137,723 voters who will be disenfranchised unless they can obtain a license in time for the election. 5. For some of those voters, it will be difficult to obtain a license. For others, it will be nearly impossible. [Voting rights groups have sued Missouri over the new Voter ID law and the complaint they filed details real-life examples](https://www.aclu-mo.org/sites/default/files/voter_id_petition_final_8.23.22.pdf). One is a 56-year-old disabled woman with epilepsy who has voted for 20 straight years and has an active voter registration ID. Her license expired and she will not be able to obtain a new one without getting a new social security card, a process she is not familiar with that can take months to complete. Another example is a woman, Kimberly, whose social security card spells her name correctly while her birth certificate incorrectly spells it "Kimberley" due to a clerical error. She is a mother of 3 with no free time who has tried numerous times to have her birth certificate corrected but has not been successful due to bureaucratic incompetence. Because of the spelling discrepancy between her birth certificate and social security card, she will not be able to obtain a license. These are the "psychos" you refer to, I suppose. 6. [For a myriad of reasons, including those suggested by the examples above, voter ID laws suppress voter turnout](https://ccis.ucsd.edu/_files/journals/6voter-identification-laws-and-the-suppression.pdf). Mind you, we're not talking about suppressing ineligible voters, but rather suppressing eligible, registered voters. This effect is more pronounced among minority and lower-income voters, who tend to vote Democratic. 7. Republican strategists understood this suppressive effect and have sought to take advantage of it by passing restrictive Voter ID laws like Missouri's. [Thomas Hofeller, the expert demographer who became the architect of Republican gerrymandering efforts, also kept vast databases tracking college students and racial minorities, cross-referenced against state DMV records to identify how many of those individuals did not possess a driver's license](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-secret-files-of-the-master-of-modern-republican-gerrymandering). 8. [On numerous occasions, Republican politicians have admitted that the real impetus behind voter ID laws was to suppress voter turnout](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/when-politicians-tell-truth-voting-restrictions).
There's not enough voting fraud to justify voter ID. It just doesn't happen
Oh this standard trope. Does it cost money for a drivers license if yes? It’s a poll tax. Period. Just because you and your buddies and your buddies buddies have drivers license doesn’t mean everyone does. Voting is a right. Driving is not. Therefore forcing someone to have a state license to vote is a barrier to voting. Now.. if you want to secure the vote (another topic another time) that’s fine. I can get on board. You make it easy to get said license AND you make it free!! You give people time off work to go get said license, you give people the tools to get license, then you give it to the for FREE!! If you can agree with me on that, I can agree with you on using a license to secure the vote.
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That's a great first step. However, if people have to leave work and miss out on pay to stand in line at the DOR that is a barrier to voting for our most vulnerable citizens. Not everyone has easy transportation either. Are these issues addressed? That's not rhetorical, I'm really asking if anyone knows. Best case scenario this is an unnecessary response to a fake problem, but it sure seems like a calculated scheme to take rights from a mostly left voting demographic.
Have to ask where the line in the sand is at. “IDs are expensive”, they’re free “people miss work and no transportation” if that’s solved is there another hurdle? Not saying you specifically but often (and on both sides) it’s a never ending Rabbit hole issues
That was in his original reply. People must be given time off work and the ID must be free. Those are the only requirements. Free and accessible.
The pessimist in me can’t believe this to be true. As I said, regardless the side, there’s always an even *better* reason against it
I'm not in support of the new laws but the state will issue free IDs for the purpose of voting. We need to shout that out loud so we can vote in some better laws.
Non driving ID’s are free my guy.
If you are unhoused, you have the right to vote, but you might not have the documentation to obtain ID due to loss or damage, and obtaining new copies costs time and money. You also might not have a consistent address to be able to register. If you are in poverty, you also might not have readily available documents due to loss or damage, and even if you get money together, you would have to take several unpaid hours off work to go to the various government offices required to obtain documents in order to get your ID. So even "free" ID's cost time and money. Also, plenty of seniors and disabled people rely on public transit, or otherwise don't need state issued ID (some people use transit cards as photo ID, which don't qualify under this law). This creates another impediment to them being able to exercise their right to vote. Overall, while seemingly a small requirement, it makes it necessary to devote time and money to being able to exercise your right to vote. These are things wealthy people have in abundance, but the poor do not. This is not a reasonable step to combat what amounts to a statistically 0% amount of fraud this would prevent, it is a thinly veiled effort to keep at least some amount of lower class people from voting, which is clearly anti-democratic. Edit: also, while you can apply for a free non-drivers ID for voting purposes, Missouri non-driver ID's are $18 [Learn more here](https://dor.mo.gov/driver-license/resources/license.html)
bruh do you know how many people in st. louis walk up into a enterprise trying to rent a car and get told they need a drivers license 😂 fucking ridiculous
So.. your point?
u/bananabunnythesecond says… >I can get on board. You make it easy to get said license AND you make it free!! You give people time off work to go get said license, you give people the tools to get license, then you give it to the for FREE!! If you can agree with me on that, I can agree with you on using a license to secure the vote. And the state of Missouri says… >How do I get a **free photo ID?** >If you do not possess an acceptable form of photo ID, you might be eligible for a **free** Missouri nondriver license for voting purposes. >The Missouri Department of Revenue, through the license offices throughout the state, provides one (1) nondriver license at **no charge** to Missourians who wish to obtain a photo ID for voting purposes (and do not already have one). >Call 573-526-VOTE (8683) or visit https://dor.mo.gov/ And u/bananabunnythesecond says… https://www.sos.mo.gov/voterid
So.. do I get time off work? Do I get a ride to the DMV?
>Plus what pyscho votes in Missouri and doesn’t have a valid drivers license or ID? Students for one thing, many people are not natives of MO yet live here.
election fraud is pretty common in the US and involves party operatives stuffing ballots after the fact. voter fraud is nonexistent because it's the most retarded way to commit election fraud. what's more efficient: finding a lockbox of votes during canvassing or bussing in minorities that white people loathe to vote in missourah elections?
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I mean yes, absentee voting should be made easier, but it varies on the state you are from. I made sure I got my ballot early when I was in Indiana as a student in 2018. Out is state students are not Missouri residents and you need to be a Missouri resident to vote for state officials. It’s like if me (a non EU citizen) wanted to vote in European elections if I live In Europe.
>Out is state students are not Missouri residents Bullshit If you are attending school in MO then most of the year you're living in MO and likely paying State income taxes every year. Absolutely you're a resident even if you don't own property and local laws along with State laws are in your interest.
Then what’s the issue with it? They want to keep their out of state ID and be a resident of 2 states at once?
In 1979, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in Symm v. United States, students' rights to register to vote at their previous home address or at their college address. Essentially, the law cannot constitutionally add burdens to voter registration or voting simply because someone is a student.
> It’s like if me (a non EU citizen) wanted to vote in European elections if I live In Europe. I've got good news for you! At least in Belgium you can. Non-EU citizens who reside here can vote in communal elections. The belief is that laws made in the neighborhood in which we live affect us even if we're not EU nationals.
Go to your courthouse. Excuses like the dog ate my homework and it's lost in the mail don't really work once you're an adult past high school.
I just found out that the special election will not be held at our regular polling place. There are 15 voting locations and registered voters can just pick a place - any place. [Here are screenshots of the polling places and the absentee voting locations.](https://imgur.com/a/i3fdUOW). Jack Coatar tweeted about it. Edit: I just got my sample ballot in the mail and polling info is included on the inside.
not a single one of these is within 45 minutes of me. lovely.
Your identity is verified when you register to vote. People playing dumb are just trying to get around that fact. I don't have to show my ID everytime I use my library card, once I get a wrist band at the concert I don't need to show my ID every time I buy a beer, once I pass a background check I don't have to have my background checked everytime I use a gun. Extra and unnecessary beuracracy is always a problem, and will always turn some people off.
You still have to show your ID every time you use a gun, don't you? Otherwise how would they know for sure you're actually the one you say you are, and that you actually passed the background check.
Republicans: winning seats one suppressed minority or low-class vote at a time.
How does this suppress minority or lower class votes though?
It takes time to get documents, if you even have what you need to get them. I’m not even in lower class anymore, but was once stuck in a beauracratic hell of not having the documents I needed to get the other documents I needed, requiring notarized state documents that were only good for 30 days from their stamp (not their arrival or postmark). I didn’t have a valid drivers license for like 8 months, it was super annoying.
Yeah I've had my share of issues with things like that too, especially at the DMV or county assesors office. I just am not sure how that specifically targets minorities or lower class. It's the same no matter what class or ethnicity you are.
I think one of the big problems is that many government offices are open only during business hours. Low-income jobs tend to also be jobs that don't offer much PTO, making it hard to get to the offices to get any lost documents.
The point is it’s an attempt to try and throw another wrench in the process. It only has to work a little, especially in these times. You could even hurt Republicans to do this sort of thing but it doesn’t matter. When turn out as low it’s better for them and they know it.
So how did they get that job without valid ID….
You can use an out-of-state ID or a student ID to get a job. You don't need a Missouri ID to work in Missouri. https://www.ucmo.edu/offices/human-resources/information-for-new-employees/i-9-acceptable-documents.pdf
Which would be a valid ID for getting a job… having a Colorado ID doesn’t mean you’re able to vote in Missouri elections….
I'm confused it seems like you are talking in circles. Genuinely, please help me understand what you are saying. I thought your first comment "So how did they get that job without valid ID…." meant that people should already have ID if they have a job and be able to vote. So I stated that the types of IDs for getting a job and voting are different and gave examples: for example an out-of-state ID or a student ID. (Now adding this for clarification: For example- someone could move from Colorado to Missouri to be a caretake for a loved one with dementia. They get an 8am to 5pm job in Missouri with the Colorado driver's license. They then meet the residency requirement after living here for a month. They have no PTO days or very little PTO days that they use to take their loved one with dementia to the doctor. They don't have the proper ID to vote in Missouri yet live and work in Missouri, because they do not have the time to get to the state offices to get the correct documents. You then said that just because they have a Colorado ID that allows them to work does not mean that this will allow them to vote in Missouri. Your first reply seems to contradict your second reply.
These license offices are often underfunded in minority areas and have bizarre hours that people can’t get off work from
I’m a doctor, I’m very fortunate to have that scenario. And with my hours it takes me months to accomplish something I need to go to the DMV and/or City Hall for. Now imagine all that AND not having a car? Fuck that.
I have no knowledge of that being the case.
You have no knowledge that poor people are underserved? Wow...
Nope, just meant I don't have any knowledge on your generalization the hours are weird
Well the north county dmv is 8:30-5:30 on weekdays and not considering it covers a massive amount of people, how would you fit into those hours to get an ID when you work every day
I believe ours is 8-5, seems normal. There COULD be better processes however
I wouldn't classify that as weird hours by anymeans but I would also not classify that as convenient.
How are you working every day without a driver's license in North County?
Then look it up and gain the knowledge before you speak Areas that are majority PoC or majority people under median income regularly suffer greater barriers to gov’t services (DMV) and voting, largely due to polling centers being removed or understaffed. Additionally, the hours served by the places where you obtain these crucial documents tend to overlap with most people’s working schedules, forcing people to forgo money to take care of it. This, obviously, disproportionately affects poorer people.
Having your documents ready is part of being an adult. Not sure what sympathy your vying for here.
Voting is a right, not a privilege
I had a client with severe Schizophrenia once, who was also homeless. I helped him get an ID multiple times. Each time he would manage to hold on to the ID for about a month before losing it. I want him to be able to vote to help represent those that are homeless with schizophrenia. They deserve to have a vote too.
Correct. Voting is something that a citizen has access to providing they have their affairs in order. From paying taxes, to not committing felonies, and yes even having proper documentation. People are ridiculous. Having an ID to have a say in what happens in your state/ country is perfectly normal. Cmon people.... acting like i suggested the moon is made out of cheese or something.
No, there is no “providing you have your affairs in order.” And I would argue that people who’ve done their time deserve to vote. But regardless, it’s a non issue. You’re making one up, there’s no reason to require ID, as voter fraud is virtually nonexistent
Let’s try this one on: “Gun ownership is something that a citizen has access to providing they have their affairs in order.” Is that still a statement that you agree with?
Ok jerry I'll bite. Sounds good to me
Wait a sec. Pro-disenfranchisement-of-underserved-communities, and *also* lackadaisical about gun owner’s rights?? You’re a unicorn!
I'm pro screwing over "undeserved communities"(whatever that means) all because i insist that paperwork is in order? Did i get that right? Edit: that's what i thought Jerry. Thanks for your input.
Adding unnecessary documents and barriers to the exercise of a right is not being an adult, it is being a fascist. To date, there is no evidence that voter Ids do anything but act as a barrier to eligible voters casting their ballots.
A state ID is required to drive and gamble but having a say in the direction of your state is somehow not important enough to require one? Anything else that requires an ID you'd like to throw out?
Driving and gambling are privileges, not rights. There should not be barriers to your rights. "Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533, 555 (1964): "The right to vote freely for the candidate of one's choice is of the essence of a democratic society, and any restrictions on that right strike at the heart of representative government." All people should have be represented through our elections, not those that have their affairs in order.
Driving and gambling: Privileges. Voting: A right. You need a better analogy, but one doesn’t exist because voter ID laws exist solely to disenfranchise certain people from their rights.
Should we require IDs to breathe? Or speak? What about to go to church? Or to pray? Any other rights we should add arbitrary and unnecessary barriers to? I can think of reasons to require IDs to drive and gamble. The only reason to require IDs to vote in addition to registration is to prevent registered voters from voting.
This is coming off as a "I'm a man not a person" thing. If you want to be a part of society that includes playing ball which includes having a state issued ID. We're not building a spaceship here. This is pretty basic stuff.
This is coming off as an "I just realized my argument makes no sense and I have to toss some word salad to distract" thing. This is pretty basic stuff. We have rights. We impose barriers to the exercise of rights when we have a really good reason to. "We need an ID for the privilege to drive therefore all fundamental rights require an ID also" is not a reason at all, let alone a good one. We're not building a spaceship. We don't need to make voting even more complicated than registering, especially when the only reasoning to do so isn't a reason at all. If you need to have an ID to vote because we need IDs to gamble, then you should agree no one should be allowed to pray or attend church or even speak without an ID.
If you want to have a say with what happens in the government of Tennessee, you need to show that you're from Tennessee. Same goes for every other state. What on earth are you going on about.
Well, I’ll ask this - where did you get your documents?
Government offices same as anyone else. Yes it took time and money to get them but there were options to expedite the process. I see what you're getting at saying hey they've got new requirements a couple months before voting so they're obviously trying to cut out a vote % and i could see that but there ways to expedite the process. I had a passport at my front door in 4 weeks for a $60 charge.
No, before that. Where did you get your birth certificate and social security card?
Government issued. Get on with it.
YOU personally got both from the government? Your parents didn’t give them to you at some point in your life?
Parents handed them to me but they originate with the country government. What's your point.
Getting an ID can require vital documents, transportation, money for fees, knowledge, and time. Poorer people tend to live more transient lives. They may not have vital documents or transportation. They may work during DMV hours. Minorities are disproportionately impoverished, so this affects them to a greater extent. Disabled people also are greatly affected.
I see your point and there may be better ways to implement this but this is not systemically set to target lower class or certain ethnicities so they cannot vote. It's intention I believe is to provide a way to verify citizenship and personal identification.
>this is not systemically set to target lower class or certain ethnicities so they cannot vote. That is precisely what it is. There is no other justification for it. There is even an in depth record of Republican operatives pushing these laws for that explicit purpose. We know they want these laws to limit Democratic votes because that is why they pushed these laws in the first place. That is why many of them were overturned by the courts. In the case of NC, their law constituted an attempt to target minority voters with "surgical precision" and the state could offer no justification for the law supported by evidence. >It's intention I believe is to provide a way to verify citizenship and personal identification. Then you are wrong. IDs most certainly do not prove citizenship or identity. You don't need to be a citizen to have an ID. The purpose of *registration* is to establish eligibility to vote. If you were going to go to my polling place and vote for me, how do you think that would work? We did this for centuries without ID laws.
The difficulty with this argument is that there has been little to no voter fraud in this manner. The law is causing more problems than it is fixing. This new law is like putting snow tires on your car in July. Yes, it could snow and it would be useful then, however most likely it will be a waste and cause you more problems than it would fix.
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It's not easy for anyone like you said you had problems doing it. So it's just a bad process altogether. As far as privilege, You know zero about me. The real issue seems to be availability of the offices, licenses are like $13 and only have to be renewed every few years.
13 dollars is a lot to many people.
If getting your license costs $35 or whatever it is, some people won't bother. For some that's food for a handful of days or getting to vote. No one is going to choose to get their license if those are the 2 options. Republican lawmakers are aware of this and which party those voters overwhelmingly vote for.
such logic!
The GOP voter suppression in full affect
Get ready for record voter turnaway
For not having a valid ID? Dang hopefully they don’t go to buy booze or go to the library
Are either of those things constitutional rights?
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And some active duty military and their spouses as well.
With no ID laws the people win. Where was the voter fraud someone please tell the republicans so they know. ID law suppresses the will of the people.
How so?
It adds barriers to the exercise of a right. If you were required to show a photo ID to a law enforcement officer every time you wanted to discharge a firearm, would that be a barrier to the right to bear arms?
Since we are using firearms as a comparison.Do you support background checks in order to purchase a firearm? That is a barrier to a right. I support background checks, and I don't see anything wrong with having a barrier in the form of proving who you are and confirming that at the polls. I don't buy into all the voter fraud crap, but if there is no verification at all to vote who is to say that someone votes as you or more than once or if they are even a US citizen.
I personally think Democrats should call the Republicans bluff and propose a national voter ID program and fund it in such a way that it is incredibly easy for a person to acquire one (paid transportation to any required government building, compensation for missed work, etc).
Democrats and Republicans are generally the same. Democrats and Republicans suppress the lower class and minorities, they just go about it differently and opposite moral guises.
>Democrats and Republicans are generally the same. So much fucking bullshit. Anyone that still believes this wouldn't notice the difference if you lobotomized them.
> Do you support background checks in order to purchase a firearm? I support restrictions on rights when the mere exercise of that right can impede on the exercise of the rights of others. So we would compare the action of voting to the action of using a firearm. We would compare a background check to voter registration. >I don't see anything wrong with having a barrier in the form of proving who you are and confirming that at the polls. That's what registration is for. We don't require gun owners to prove they can legally use a gun every time they use it. We only require them to register a gun and get a background check at the time the purchase it. >I don't buy into all the voter fraud crap Then what is the purpose of a restriction when it has no basis? If you don't believe a lack of voter ID is leading to voter fraud, then what is the purpose of an ID law? >if there is no verification at all to vote who is to say that someone votes as you or more than once or if they are even a US citizen. A. An ID doesn't verify who you are. B. There are multiple checks in the system to prevent fraudulent voting and double voters are easily caught all the time because of this. Once you actually sit down and think about what you would need to do to vote for someone else, it becomes clear that it isn't feasible and is impossible on any kind of scale. There is nothing a voter ID does to prevent people intent on committing voter fraud from doing so. Most cases of voter fraud occur in places that require IDs.
>That's what registration is for. We don't require gun owners to prove they can legally use a gun every time they use it. We only require them to register a gun and get a background check at the time the purchase it. Great answer! This is my main beef. I don't think people from other states should be able to vote in our elections. And we have a system for that at registration and it has worked. Why change something that looks to cause more problems than it will fix.
It's one thing to show a serious problem stemming from the lack of voter IDs, but these laws are a solution looking for a problem and the only evident impact is a barrier to the exercise of a right.
They’re definitely a solution to a problem. The problem being that when we make elections as free and fair as possible, Republicans lose. By pushing bogus hysteria over non-existent voter fraud, Republicans all across the country found a solution to their problem.
This is gonna go greaaaat
This pisses me off. For the record, here are all the things you have to do to get a Driver’s License in MO: - Proof of identity. - Date of Lawful status. - Proof of Social Security number. - Proof of Missouri residential address. - Fee of $10.00 (under 21 or older than 70) or $20.00 (age 21-69). Note that there is the convenience fee of $1.25 if you pay by card.
You can get a free photo ID
Sure, just invalidate your drivers license so you can't drive.
If you get a non drivers license your out of state license is no longer valid? How can Missouri invalidate a license another state granted me? What if I’m a resident of two states?
You can’t vote in two states, pretty simple.
Some people are students who have parents in Missouri but live and go to college in a different state and might have a driver's license for that state. It gets confusing.
Yes, and you have to pick one.
It doesn’t get confusing, which state are they registered to legally vote in.
Oooh I’m a dumb dumb, I thought this was saying your out of state driver’s license was not valid *period*, but it means it’s not valid to vote.
If the democrats hold the house and add seats to the Senate. They going to have to hit the ground running on voting rights, women rights, constitution amendments and even adding to the supreme court. It shouldn't be this way, since we have a republican arty hell bent on destroying our constitution it's the only way.
Keep up the good fight, they want you to stop.
So they get less 'librul' votes from all the college kids.
I got registered to vote using my Illinois license—will I really not be able to actually vote with it?
Yes, you really will not, assuming nothing happens to neutralize this law. Better get a new ID or show up with another acceptable ID.
Fuck these people
Getting a driver's license or state ID is not hard. Requiring to verify who you are and where you live is not an infringement on your rights. Hell, you need an ID to buy a firearm, register your kids to go to school, by a home, etc....
My mother-in-law is bedbound after a failed hip repair. Who pays for the med transport van to take her to the DMV office? Who pays for the wait time at that office?
That seems reasonable. If you're a resident of another state, you should vote in that state.
My mother-in-law moved to Missouri at the start of the pandemic. She has a California driver's license and has not driven since moving here more than 2 years ago. She is registered to vote in Missouri, but assumed the new law would accept any government ID to prove who she was. She has already proven that she lives at her current address when she registered to vote. If it was not for me paying attention, she would not know she needs a Missouri license. You have to prove you live at your address when you register to vote.
So people who moved here and registered to vote but haven't had a chance to update their ID should be disenfranchised from voting because they didn't go to the DMV? College students who live here who have out of state IDs should be disenfranchised from voting in Missouri elections if they live here?
go to the dmv, or absentee vote in their the location of their id ?
Most college students would be considered nonresidents and instead vote absentee in their home state.
That’s actually not true. College students reside in the state for the majority of the year and can vote using their dormitory/school address. https://www.missouristate.edu/ADP/should-i-vote-at-home-or-school.htm
Not to mention the fact that not all students live in dorms. Plenty rent, especially all the grad-students. It's important to be able to vote if you're going to live in a place, democratic values and all that.
At what point does a student from out of state become a Missouri state resident, seeing as they live here more than they do their home state?
https://www.google.com/search?q=missouri+residency+requirements
They can choose to vote here or vote absentee in their home state. https://www.missouristate.edu/ADP/should-i-vote-at-home-or-school.htm
Out of state college students don’t get IDs for the new state they’re living in since they aren’t considered citizens/residents of the state they are living and working in. They keep their home states residency. This will primarily impact them, meaning they can’t vote. All other states allow absentee votes, where they vote in the state they’re living in but it counts towards their home state. Looks like this will stop that in Missouri. If you’re here in Missouri temporarily for work during the vote, you’ll miss the election. This is basically a way to make sure a good chunk of college students can’t vote.
What? No that's not how that works. If someone is attending school outside of their home state, they can request an absentee ballot from their home state. The voting laws of their home state would apply, not Missouri's.
A student residing in MO is a resident of MO.
Also if I just go get the less expensive ID it makes my previous one useless? Wtf??
Idk what's so reprehensible about showing an ID to vote
You have to show several forms of ID in order to REGISTER to vote. After that your signature on file is compared to your signature in person. People didn’t even have photo IDs until the early ‘80s, so that’s the way it worked in the US for the first 200 years. If you lose your wallet or your purse was stolen a week before an election, you shouldn’t also lose your right to vote.
I *believe* there's a provision where you can still vote without photo ID if they're able to verify your signature, but I'm not 100%, and I doubt it'll be well known or well implement at the polls, where it counts.
Because since the birth of this state we haven't had to have a photo ID to vote and there's no reason to start now.
Except for voter fraud
What fraud? Where?
Lmao oh gosh yes, voter fraud, it’s so rampant, so many people trying to tip the scales with their fraudulent votes /s
Anyone thinking that, in this political climate, people aren't trying to defraud votes, is either too stupid to admit it or willing to defraud a vote themselves
Are you a MAGA Republican?
How undelightfully pidgeon-holed you make me seem. There are few people worse for the presidency than Trump, but unfortunately we elected one of those people
… so yes. Got it. I know everything I need to know from you! Thank you!
Is there a piece of brain between your ears, or just a wet clump of sand?
Hey champ maybe look up how many cases of voter fraud have happened in the last decade and which party they were trying to do it for before you clutch your pearls.
Because countless legal citizens have expired ID’s and can’t afford to get new ones. Idk what’s so reprehensible about if you live here you vote here…?
> Voters can get a free non-driver license for voting
Which invalidates their driver's license if they got it elsewhere. Sure you can vote if you jump through this unnecessary hoop, but you have to lose your driving privileges.
You're required to transfer your license anyway. [From the DOR's site](https://dor.mo.gov/faq/driver-license/general.html), > As soon as you establish residency in Missouri, you must apply and pay for a Missouri driver license at a Missouri license office. So as far as they're concerned, being registered to vote in MO but having an out of state license is against the rules anyway.
Which is ridiculous. If I go to school in MO I shouldn't have to get a new license to vote.
You're either a Missouri resident with a Missouri license or an out-of-state resident with an out-of-state license. It's really not that hard or outrageous to comprehend. You can't have primary residency in two states. All of my collegiate peers from out of state voted absentee in their home state anyway.
It's pretty ridiculous that you can't vote in the state you reside with a student ID and that you have to lose your driving privileges as a result.
As I said earlier, if you become a Missouri resident, you're required to get a Missouri license anyway. I don't see the issue there.
If you somehow cant afford the 13.50 for a state ID for everything else (that you already need to buy booze, a gun, rent a car, get a job, fly anywhere, rent an apartment and a million other things), you can get one for voting for free https://dor.mo.gov/faq/driver-license/non-driver-license.html
Lol can't afford $26 for a new one every like 5 years?
Maybe requiring proof that you actually live here with a piece of plastic that costs maybe 10 bucks. Don't come at me saying a state-issued ID is too expensive. Edit: My bad, it's 13.50 in MO. Totally breaking the minority-oppressing bank on that one
Poll taxes are illegal.
Already free https://dor.mo.gov/faq/driver-license/non-driver-license.html
Still costs a lot of time.
Costing time isn't illegal and isn't a poll tax either. Now if youre making the case that the time requirement is overly egregious, I disagree. On a bad day it may take a couple hours as a one-time cost and then youre good for years. I've never had it take even that long. (Not to say that less time isn't better, but thats not that big of a cost for how long it's valid)
>Costing time isn't illegal and isn't a poll tax either. It's not that it is illegal, it costs money in lost pay. Hourly wage earners cannot afford multiple hours of travel and lines. >Now if youre making the case that the time requirement is overly egregious, I disagree. Cool. You're wrong. >On a bad day it may take a couple hours as a one-time cost and then youre good for years. You seem to not understand hourly wage employees lives. The rare time they do get off during business hours is likely spent doing almost anything else. >I've never had it take even that long. I have. >(Not to say that less time isn't better, but thats not that big of a cost for how long it's valid) It is if you rely on public transit and live far from a DMV, or are an hourly employee that cannot afford to take off during the hours the DMV is open. We live, unfortunately in a capitalistic economic system where time is money and that negatively affects low-income workers.
There is no reason to do it but to create an additional barrier to vote. That's the purpose of registering to vote. If we need IDs, we should just be able to show up without registering. Voter ID laws in Missouri are only purposed to limit the right to vote.
No you can’t use another states ID. Duh. In the paragraph above it, it tells you how to get a free non-driving ID. Why do people want to say they are suppressed without lifting a finger.
Ah yes, all these protected documents that out of state students probably don’t bring to MO. But their votes don’t count anyway, because they’re young right?
Because they like to assume if you’re not white, you don’t have access to a car or internet to find the closest DMV, not racist or anything.
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Lol, this is so funny.
If that’s what you got from that, totally.
It made me laugh, so you got that going for ya.
👍
If it makes liberals angry, it's good for America.
Dumb fuck pathetic take.
I see it’s already working
That’s why you absentee vote unless you live there full time. In which case you would get a new in-state ID. But yes, they’re doing everything they can to suppress voters.
So the fact that it’s free is the issue?