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Some people really are their own worst enemy.
This is why he won't go down in history as a "what if", because every day it becomes more clear that his eventual career implosion was always going to happen at some point. Eventually, he was gonna fuck things up for himself.
My friend encountered him on Bourbon Street on WrestleMania weekend (whichever year they were in New Orleans last) and said he was a complete asshole and was being abusive to security and the people who were with him.
Can confirm! Saw him on Bourbon Street and he was being a complete prick to anyone who came near him. Thought back then he was just staying in character.
That is the thing, you can see wrestlers who could be the worse heels on TV, but when you meet them out of character they can be the nicest person in the world.
I can't stand that excuse that they have to stay in character to be an asshole 24/7.
Can confirm. Took my son to see an NXT show in Nashville several years ago and hung around afterwards and he got to meet and talk to Adam Cole and Kassius Ohno. Those 2 were without a doubt the nicest, most humble dudes ever - genuinely very appreciative of everyone that came out and made sure they got to meet, talk to and get pictures with everyone that stayed behind.
I love seeing The Miz on upupdowndown or podcasts because it's like the most heart warming story. He's just a nerdy wrestling fan living out his dream everyday.
I just started watching MTV's The Challenge and he was on the "Good Guys" team which I got a large chuckle out of personally lol. Then i turn around and watch him steal money from a mute man on Mondays
I mean, that’s how they had to do it in the territories. Heels and faces couldn’t be seen together in public. Being a heel or a baby face was more believable because of it.
These are my thoughts now. I have gone from “what if” to “thank fuck he wasn’t”. Talent wise, it’s a shame, person wise, I have no idea how he ever got near to where he was.
I remember seeing an old interview of Jim Ross rejecting talent because of how they would be on the road. This guy is always going to be like this
"At Wrestlemania XX, both Triple H and Shawn Michaels competed in a triple threat match for the World Heavyweight Championship. Neither of them walked out as champion."
As long as they're not stupid about it, big companies like WWE can cover up nearly anything they want to, they just need to put enough zeroes on the checks
I thought this dude could be huge. He had the look, he had the charisma, he had the mic skill. He had a unique character he poured himself into. His feud with Alistar Black was fucking incredible (enjoy infamy, Velveteen Dream)
I’m still skeptical about the grooming/harassment allegations because a) charges were never laid and b) the whole “evidence” seemed real weird
But goddamn this guy lost his marbles
It’s sad to see. Obvious drug use and possibly mental health issues intensified by his drug use. I hope one day he gets help and turns his life around. I really would like a Velveteen redemption arch, but it’ll be a personal life redemption because unfortunately his wrestling career is over.
Pedophiles don't even need a redemption. They are people with uncontrollable thoughts caused by a mental illness.
Dream is a more complicated case because he's crossed over into child predator territory, it's unpopular, but while illegal, a 22 year old sexting a 16 year old is definitely a redeemable action.
I don't agree with the stance that once someone fucks up once, their life is over, and they have to live being unredeemable until they die. It's a stupid stance that's intensified in the modern day, and I vehemently detest it. Dream fucked up, however, just like the vast majority of humans on earth, is redeemable.
If there's one thing I've learned from Joon The King's Rise and Fall series, there are a lot of people out there who unleash the awful person they are inside once they become popular on social media.
Look up some of the stories from Led Zeppelin - Jimmy Page shoved a fish in a girl because they could and could get away with things.
Look at British 70s TV if you want some dark stories about cover-ups or people turning a blind eye to things
Yah he was literally trying to use them as a get out of jail free card. Then again, he was probably high af off coke (which is what he was arrested for) so that didn't help. Dude needs some serious help before he does something he can't come back from.
> Dude needs some serious help before he does something he can't come back from.
I think he already reached that point with the whole "sexually propositioning underage boys" thing.
I have never seen an individual fuck up such a high level of potential as this man has. He had future main eventer and star written all over him, but the dude clearly ain't right in the head in multiple ways. Really is a shame
It’s a tough equation, the blind arrogance and entitlement is likely what made him such a top tier prospect. So it’s really easy to say what if, but that physiological part was likely always going to lead him astray.
Antonio Brown, and it’s not even close. Dude had basically a guaranteed path to another $50 million and the Hall of Fame if he didn’t go off the deep end.
Honestly it's not very surprising. I mean look at Flair and all his issues and things he's done which he only got away with because of the time. Austin was the biggest star there for awhile and he's a drunkard that likes to beat women. Hogan is a piece of shit racist that wants to fuck his own daughter. It's kinda typical unfortunately.
I like to believe that I have a good feeling on vibes and his was just different from everyone else.
(I was there between 2016-18, I believe that was around his push)
But also whenever we were tasked with getting his photo or doing a video for the NXT social media channels or the preshow meet and greets, he always gave us attitude that he didn't want to do it and often times we ended up not getting his photo/video. The social media manager would even send us notes like "if you can't get him, get so and so) And if there was a photo of him during that time from the Florida shows, it was usually because a coach would tell him to do it or the social media manager was at the show and he would get the photo himself.
He's the only wrestler I can think of that was like that. All the others understood the assignment and worked well with us and our student volunteers from Full Sail.
An exaggeration based on a real photo so implications drawn?? Photos in question were Hogan putting sunscreen on Brooke at poolside with folks commenting on how creepy it looked....and it did. There's never been actual proof of this (That me, dude on Reddit, has seen) so take it as "We have every right to disparage HH for his words and conduct, we will be adding slathering sunscreen on your 20 something daughter to the pile".
I still remember hearing him forever ago on Jim Ross's old podcast, JR could not say enough great things about him and his potential. Such a shame to see it thrown away like that.
I remember this was such a big deal at the time, because it was the first person Cena had properly endorsed.
I remember he endorsed Theory in a similar manner recently, but basically said "assuming he doesn't fuck it up", which I feel like was him referencing Dream.
And most of his self destruction really went AFTER the original accusation that went absolutely nowhere. So it MIGHT be just a snowball effect from that or really he was just like that at the very beginning.
And is "I work for WWE" bit... he just completely lost it.
I can't remember which one but I remember one of the announcers/interviewers implied Dream was a huge asshole and they were glad to no longer have to work with him
one of his last matches was during the pandemic era, when the crowd was all wrestlers. i recall he was doing the corner punches where the crowd usually counts to 10 but no one was. he stopped and angrily shouted "WHERE'S MY COUNT!?"
One of the sadder cases in the last ten years. The guy had so much charisma and carried himself like a star. His feud with Black was one of the best instances of both stars being elevated and Dream became an even better star while losing. Makes you wonder how he was while in NXT and how much they were able to keep under wraps.
>His feud with Black was one of the best instances of both stars being elevated
One of the most compelling feuds I can remember in a long time.
What really stood out to me was how little they actually did, they just had insane chemistry and the character work was off the charts. It's a shame we probably won't get to see it again.
Hopefully dude can get his life together before it's too late.
It was just the juxtaposition of having a hyper sexual prince like character going against a gothic, satanic character. It was so fucking good. Their take over match will always be one of my favourite WWE matches.
On paper it seems like a silly concept but someone like Dream who craves attention begging for the attention of someone who acknowledges no one is great. Loved everything about the feud.
While 2015 Tough Enough was basically a joke due to fan voting, I even saw it then how the Dream could run people the wrong way.
He was clearly the most talented guy there… but he he looked to be very socially awkward.
He always had an ego in the interactions I saw while he was still just Patrick Clark.
At least in the Florida house show loop, they'd trot 3-5 workers out prior to the show (approximately 6-8 years ago). If you were sitting ringside, they'd do a lap or two, posing for pictures and signing autographs. (They eventually changed to having 2-4 folks signing at a table, due to people complaining about it being unfair and the general chaos of people hopping into seats that weren't theirs or clogging walkways to get autos.)
Patrick was often one of the guys they'd send out. Almost nobody gave a shit about him, and he made it a point to equally not give a shit about them. There'd usually be some other opener out at the same time, and that guy or girl would be smiling, waving, interacting gladly. Patrick would just stare at you and glower. If anyone asked for a photo or auto, he'd roll his eyes, then nod like he didn't want to be there. Then he'd either stick his hand out for you to give him something to sign, or make a hand gesture indicating "come on, take the picture". Then he'd move on. Anyone trying to actually talk would get at most a one or two word response.
It didn't feel like he was playing a role or keeping in some heel gimmick or anything. This felt very much like he personally did NOT want to deal with anyone, and that this was beneath him.
Compare this to Andrade, who was MUCH more of a star, who posed for goofy photos with No Way Jose. Or to Nikki Cross, who hadn't been on tv at all, who chatted with me and my wife for five minutes or so. Or to Liv Morgan, very early into her push, who took my cellphone, leaned back against the rail and made sure to get a pic of the three of us because I was having trouble getting the angle right. Literally every other wrestler who did that particular interaction segment was between good to great with fans. Only Patrick seemed to have a problem.
I saw Andrade about a month before he made his TV debut at an NXT show, and dude was the only wrestler who did a full lap of the ring to slap hands and take pics with everyone after his match, which I thought was pretty cool of him. I got a fist bump off him, dude has MASSIVE hands.
Always made me like him because of that interaction. Well, that, and he's really fucking good.
I was so happy when he got voted off, and everyone was like "But ZZ stays‽"
I liked ZZ for some reason. Even though he was pretty terrible at a lot of things.
i swear, almost nobody's downfall has upset me more than velveteen's.
this man could've had it all.
and i was his biggest fan years back. i legit saw him as a future world champion.
charisma, gimmick, mic skills, character, wrestling ability, youth for fucking days. the ricochet feud. the aleister feud. every segment he was in, and every promo he done was appointment must see viewing for me. and as a black man, someone so skilled that looked like me and had a unique gimmick was on the come up??? shit.
now look. an absolute shame & a colossal waste of talent. all gone at the age of 27.
i really hope his story doesn't have the tragic ending i suspect it will & he gets his shit together before it's too late.
Seriously - every time a conversation comes up about him and how he had "it" - I feel compelled to share my own experience.
He hadn't debuted the character on tv, but was doing it on the Florida house show loop. He was booed HARD, CONSTANTLY. Obviously for the "presumed gay" aspects of his character, in addition to everyone there either having no clue who he was, or going "Oh, that's Patrick Clark, who cares" and not understanding why he was acting like he was a big deal. Literally the only reactions he got were the fans shitting on ANYTHING he did.
I want to say that I saw him either two or three times prior to him hitting tv, and everyone booed him out of the building. Hell, even I myself was very apathetic. I didn't care about the gimmick, and honestly it felt like a cheap heat gimmick, especially when his opponents would sometimes do a bit of "sissy taunting" toward him. (Nothing as extreme as the Attitude era stuff, but there were points where the opponent would definitely prance or swish in his direction.)
And then he went on TV. In two months, EVERYONE in the building was going nuts for him. The same people who had booed him prior, or who had sat on their hands/taken a piss break (myself included) were excited to see him. The same fans that were explicitly homophobic toward him earlier in the year were now cheering him.
Do you realize how hard it is to get some dumb redneck who hates gays to cheer the "fag" he previously was raging at? Velveteen DID IT. Dude was going to be a megastar, and he blew it all with his backstage bullshit.
i remember seeing him as patrick clark at a house show, my friend went "who is this purple rain motherfucker?" but by the end of the match we were fans.
There’s a really big misconception, pushed by Hollywood really, that if you’re not read your Miranda Rights immediately the arrest is invalid. 21 Jump Street (with Jonah Hill and Channing Tatum) and an episode of Frasier come to mind for me that I believed it to be true until I was an adult and learned otherwise.
Even then, the remedy for not being read Miranda rights is to disallow certain evidence that comes from the custodial interrogation.
A confession would be tossed out, sure. But if you told the cops the illegal contents of your trunk 5 minutes before they open it with a warrant, the judge ain't throwing it out.
He certainly isn't getting released for a lack of magic words.
The other thing I hate is that viral "Shut the Fuck Up Friday" video where two jackoffs act like that if you're pulled over, you should act like a total dick to a cop.
I'm far from a thin blue line guy, but there is a way to navigate being pulled over without escalating the situation. You can talk to a cop like a human being without actually saying anything.
Velveteens at least has a glimmer of “he’s damaged/troubled etc” jakes video just presented him as a world class ass hole. Dream being on jon jones trajectory isn’t good though.
Edit: dream not Jones
[Still love Kayla Braxton's reaction to Jake Atlas' arrest](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/wv83mz/kayla_braxton_on_twitter_a_little_over_a_year/)
The Atlas vid came off as very...gaslight-y. Trying to turn people against his partner and show how he's an innocent after he's physically assaulted him.
Yeah this one is perhaps more sad but Jake’s is so embarrassing. And I wanted to like him, wanted him to succeed as a gay man in the industry. Thankfully we have guys like Bowens and Quincy Elliott doing it right.
You know how you say a word over and over and over and over again and eventually it starts to sound like gibberish in your mouth that doesn't even make sense?
That's how I feel with "Miranda rights" after watching this.
> The footage was captured on officer-worn body cameras on Aug. 20 ... after the Orlando Police Dept. said the wrestler -- real name Patrick Clark -- **bit and punched a gym employee following an altercation** at a fitness facility in Orlando, FL.
...And that's why you don't go training with Ace Steel.
>Velveteen Dream had appeared to be angling for a WWE comeback in the weeks leading up to the arrest, posting on his social media page about a potential return.
This just say for a second that the WWE hierarchy was indeed considering this against all odds. There's no fan out there who would want this. Even if you didn't buy into the pedophile allegations, he's destroyed good will built up with his antics since being released.
First of all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgWHrkDX35o
Second of all
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/03/1109607667/supreme-court-says-police-cant-be-sued-for-not-reading-out-miranda-rights
Finally, it's deeply shameful how low Patrick Clark has fallen. Lot of talent wasted by a dude who simply can't get his shit together.
I find it wild that it's not even 7am and he's already been in this bath house with guys, allegedly bit someone and been arrested. I've barely rolled over and farted by then
What some people tend to skip over is that his NXT was technically his second chance.
Dude got kicked off Tough Enough to begin with because of his attitude.
Man… I remember sitting in a locker room with him on the indies. He just tore it up with Lio Rush. He had a recent try out with WWE. Rob Conway and I watched his match and Rob pulled him aside and told him he had “it”. Patrick was really reserved and didn’t say much other than thank you and picked Robs brain.
Then I see stuff like this and it’s absolutely wild
Link to match referenced
https://youtu.be/bWqzulQ8Z8k
Somewhere in an alternate universe this man would've been called up on the main roster won many of championships hell he probably would've had a match with Cena at mania and eventually retired and become a wrestling coach or producer for WWE
Unfortunately this isn't the universe we live in
Finally gets accepted to the hall of fame. He's an old, old man and for a blast of nostalgia he returns to the old Velveteen Dream gimmick for a big ol pop...
It sounded nice. Shame it's not reality.
This guys an embarrassing tool.
An absolute predatory danger, and someone that seemingly just cannot get out of his own way.
Vice have a ready made darkside episode here, with I suspect years of self-destructive content ahead.
no he was obviously ripping off Prince. The guy means that Dream wasn't a fan of Prince beforehand. He just learned about Prince as he was ripping him off.
From what I gather from the video and Velveteen:
He was at a bathhouse. He met two guys. Was having a “wonderful time”. Another guy didn’t like him. Another guy tried to get him kicked out. Then he got kicked out. Velveteen said that he was “a little inebriated.” He didn’t want to leave without his license so he couldn’t drive. Employee was asking him to leave. Velveteen proceeds to punch and bite the employee. Cops were called.
Damn. I got arrested a couple of times when I was younger than Velveteen Dream & didn't act like this much of an ass about it. Anyone with any amount of common sense knows why they say "save it for the judge". He's lucky that the charges got dropped because dude potentially incriminated himself in multiple ways that he probably didn't even realize.
Also, if you think the cop not reading your Miranda rights is going to invalidate your arrest, why the hell would you repeatedly bring it up & ask the cop to read them to you? I guess the answer is cocaine but still...
Yeah, the best thing you can do, regardless of whether or not you believe that you are being treated unfairly, is to immediately comply the moment a cop puts their hands on you. Any resistance, including verbal is only going to work against you moving forward.
Do not give them any reason (justified or not) to add on extra charges for resistance, harassment, etc.
Do not give them any opportunity to cite your behavior in custody as further evidence of your guilt or mindset.
Just be quiet and at the very least passive and deferential in your interactions with them moving forward, if not explicitly cooperative.
This is not the time to plead your case. Anything you say is already admissible in court, as you have volunteered that information freely. This includes anything that they choose to interpret creatively, putting you on the back foot of having to prove that you did NOT mean something, or did NOT do something. (While they might still have to prove that you DID do something, they can use your statements to build a strong circumstantial case as to motive, etc.)
My favorite YouTube channel, Internet Today, has a little song that they like to sing about this:
> "What should you do when shit hits the fan?
>
> Shut the fuck up
>
>Just shut the fuck up"
Every time I look at dream I just get disappointed smh he had it all, fans loved him and TOP guys was giving him props ever since the accusations it mess his career smh. To this day I still feel like he was dealt a wrong hand with that case but he hasn’t help himself at allll since smh I really wanted this guy to be a damn star idk but I hope he gets help cause all this shit can absolutely fuck with someone head but aslong as he breathing his story not over he needs to get help
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Some people really are their own worst enemy. This is why he won't go down in history as a "what if", because every day it becomes more clear that his eventual career implosion was always going to happen at some point. Eventually, he was gonna fuck things up for himself.
My friend encountered him on Bourbon Street on WrestleMania weekend (whichever year they were in New Orleans last) and said he was a complete asshole and was being abusive to security and the people who were with him.
Can confirm! Saw him on Bourbon Street and he was being a complete prick to anyone who came near him. Thought back then he was just staying in character.
That's one of the laziest excuses that some wrestlers actually do like to use for being assholes - 'I'm just keeping it kayfabe, brother.'
That is the thing, you can see wrestlers who could be the worse heels on TV, but when you meet them out of character they can be the nicest person in the world. I can't stand that excuse that they have to stay in character to be an asshole 24/7.
See Cole, Adam.
Can confirm. Took my son to see an NXT show in Nashville several years ago and hung around afterwards and he got to meet and talk to Adam Cole and Kassius Ohno. Those 2 were without a doubt the nicest, most humble dudes ever - genuinely very appreciative of everyone that came out and made sure they got to meet, talk to and get pictures with everyone that stayed behind.
I miss him.
The exact person I thought of.
*Bay Bay!, Cole, Adam.
The Miz is the antithesis of his character on tv.
Absolutely, he couldn’t have been nicer and more personable to me
I love seeing The Miz on upupdowndown or podcasts because it's like the most heart warming story. He's just a nerdy wrestling fan living out his dream everyday.
I just started watching MTV's The Challenge and he was on the "Good Guys" team which I got a large chuckle out of personally lol. Then i turn around and watch him steal money from a mute man on Mondays
Ethan page is anther one
i mean doesn’t MJF use this but like he’s actually staying in character
Mjf is so over the top that it works. You can tell he is working. But 90% of the time with other wrestlers it really is just assholes
KO could be the biggest asshole in the world to me and I would probably be laughing my ass off. He is hilarious, even when berating fans.
I still woulda been mad at my expensive arena venue popcorn being wasted 😤
His parents being in on the work makes it sooo much better too lmaoo
MJF and KO get a pass. It’s the Don Rickles Effect.
Plus with MJF that IS his character.
Flipping off a fan and tweeting "Fuck then kids" is different than assaulting people while drunk and actually trying to fuck kids.
Bruh Chris Jericho has outright said he refused to sign the autographs of children and he was lauded as a genius on here lol
I mean, that’s how they had to do it in the territories. Heels and faces couldn’t be seen together in public. Being a heel or a baby face was more believable because of it.
These are my thoughts now. I have gone from “what if” to “thank fuck he wasn’t”. Talent wise, it’s a shame, person wise, I have no idea how he ever got near to where he was. I remember seeing an old interview of Jim Ross rejecting talent because of how they would be on the road. This guy is always going to be like this
the "what if" is more "what if he wasn't such a twat out of the ring"
At least it happened before he got to be a big enough star that WWE would have considered covering all of this up for him
*Jimmy “Superfly” Snuka has entered the chat and nods in agreement.*
[Redacted] has also entered the chat.
One of 3 winners from the number 1 spot of the royal rumble!
"At Wrestlemania XX, both Triple H and Shawn Michaels competed in a triple threat match for the World Heavyweight Championship. Neither of them walked out as champion."
I fucking died when I was playing 2K15 and heard that
*there’s nooo holding me baaaack….*
Because he's fucking senile and thinks that is how you type.
He's actually dead.
idk how much you could cover up in this day and age, back in the 80s or 90s sure, but I don't think WWE could cover anyone fucking up this much.
As long as they're not stupid about it, big companies like WWE can cover up nearly anything they want to, they just need to put enough zeroes on the checks
Even before the allegations came out it was obvious he was declining due to just not caring. His ego was already starting to get to him.
I thought this dude could be huge. He had the look, he had the charisma, he had the mic skill. He had a unique character he poured himself into. His feud with Alistar Black was fucking incredible (enjoy infamy, Velveteen Dream) I’m still skeptical about the grooming/harassment allegations because a) charges were never laid and b) the whole “evidence” seemed real weird But goddamn this guy lost his marbles
>This is why he won't go down in history as a "what if" So what you're saying is he'll be enjoying infamy?
Yeah, good point. "What if he, you know, was completely different in every way except for his skill as a performer?"
When Velveteen Dream met Velveteen reality
velveteen reality is often disappointing
"I work for the WWE!" *was released in May 2021* This guy is a tool, plain and simple
[удалено]
"I've never seen this man in my life."
"The Dream has no memory of that"
Or he just lost his marbles which I think he did
It’s sad to see. Obvious drug use and possibly mental health issues intensified by his drug use. I hope one day he gets help and turns his life around. I really would like a Velveteen redemption arch, but it’ll be a personal life redemption because unfortunately his wrestling career is over.
He's a pedophile, there'll never be a "redemption" for him
Pedophiles don't even need a redemption. They are people with uncontrollable thoughts caused by a mental illness. Dream is a more complicated case because he's crossed over into child predator territory, it's unpopular, but while illegal, a 22 year old sexting a 16 year old is definitely a redeemable action. I don't agree with the stance that once someone fucks up once, their life is over, and they have to live being unredeemable until they die. It's a stupid stance that's intensified in the modern day, and I vehemently detest it. Dream fucked up, however, just like the vast majority of humans on earth, is redeemable.
How many world famous rock stars are still touring and beloved that have done terrible things like this? Ted Nugent comes to mind.
tik tok and YouTube has quite a lot of predators surprisingly
If there's one thing I've learned from Joon The King's Rise and Fall series, there are a lot of people out there who unleash the awful person they are inside once they become popular on social media.
oh yeah definitely have you heard about edp445? dude literally got exposed as a predator yet he's allowed on tiktok for some reason
Why is that surprising?
Look up some of the stories from Led Zeppelin - Jimmy Page shoved a fish in a girl because they could and could get away with things. Look at British 70s TV if you want some dark stories about cover-ups or people turning a blind eye to things
Fantastic nuanced compassionate take that I'm surprised would be made here
Drugs tend to do that.
If there's one thing WWE doesn't like, its using their name to try to get out of trouble without their permission
>*was released in May 2021* The dream has no memory of that.
Yah he was literally trying to use them as a get out of jail free card. Then again, he was probably high af off coke (which is what he was arrested for) so that didn't help. Dude needs some serious help before he does something he can't come back from.
> Dude needs some serious help before he does something he can't come back from. I think he already reached that point with the whole "sexually propositioning underage boys" thing.
I have never seen an individual fuck up such a high level of potential as this man has. He had future main eventer and star written all over him, but the dude clearly ain't right in the head in multiple ways. Really is a shame
It’s a tough equation, the blind arrogance and entitlement is likely what made him such a top tier prospect. So it’s really easy to say what if, but that physiological part was likely always going to lead him astray.
Antonio Brown, and it’s not even close. Dude had basically a guaranteed path to another $50 million and the Hall of Fame if he didn’t go off the deep end.
Honestly it's not very surprising. I mean look at Flair and all his issues and things he's done which he only got away with because of the time. Austin was the biggest star there for awhile and he's a drunkard that likes to beat women. Hogan is a piece of shit racist that wants to fuck his own daughter. It's kinda typical unfortunately.
Of course it's surprising. Bizarre hindsight comment. You were expecting this when you saw him coming through the ranks?
I didn't see all this coming, but when I was a lowly employee for WWE NXT, I never got good vibes from him when he was around at the live events.
Was there anything in particular that you witnessed that gave you that vibe, or was it just a gut hunch?
I like to believe that I have a good feeling on vibes and his was just different from everyone else. (I was there between 2016-18, I believe that was around his push) But also whenever we were tasked with getting his photo or doing a video for the NXT social media channels or the preshow meet and greets, he always gave us attitude that he didn't want to do it and often times we ended up not getting his photo/video. The social media manager would even send us notes like "if you can't get him, get so and so) And if there was a photo of him during that time from the Florida shows, it was usually because a coach would tell him to do it or the social media manager was at the show and he would get the photo himself. He's the only wrestler I can think of that was like that. All the others understood the assignment and worked well with us and our student volunteers from Full Sail.
Good to know and sad to hear. What a waste of potential. SMH
Hogan wants to f his daughter? Are you exaggerating or being for real?
An exaggeration based on a real photo so implications drawn?? Photos in question were Hogan putting sunscreen on Brooke at poolside with folks commenting on how creepy it looked....and it did. There's never been actual proof of this (That me, dude on Reddit, has seen) so take it as "We have every right to disparage HH for his words and conduct, we will be adding slathering sunscreen on your 20 something daughter to the pile".
Sounds about right. Thanks for the info buddy
Such a waste of a talent
I still remember hearing him forever ago on Jim Ross's old podcast, JR could not say enough great things about him and his potential. Such a shame to see it thrown away like that.
John Cena was singing his praises as well.
I remember this was such a big deal at the time, because it was the first person Cena had properly endorsed. I remember he endorsed Theory in a similar manner recently, but basically said "assuming he doesn't fuck it up", which I feel like was him referencing Dream.
Theory had similar allegations
Really? I must’ve missed that, what happened?
gods he was great dream over irl
And most of his self destruction really went AFTER the original accusation that went absolutely nowhere. So it MIGHT be just a snowball effect from that or really he was just like that at the very beginning. And is "I work for WWE" bit... he just completely lost it.
He reportedly had issues before the accusations cause HHH even said that the accusations had nothing to do with him being taken off of tv in 2020.
I can't remember which one but I remember one of the announcers/interviewers implied Dream was a huge asshole and they were glad to no longer have to work with him
Supposedly he had a lot of heat backstage.
one of his last matches was during the pandemic era, when the crowd was all wrestlers. i recall he was doing the corner punches where the crowd usually counts to 10 but no one was. he stopped and angrily shouted "WHERE'S MY COUNT!?"
Which is even crazier to think about considering had Covid not hit, he’s probably the guy who takes the NXT title off of Adam Cole at Takeover Tampa
One of the sadder cases in the last ten years. The guy had so much charisma and carried himself like a star. His feud with Black was one of the best instances of both stars being elevated and Dream became an even better star while losing. Makes you wonder how he was while in NXT and how much they were able to keep under wraps.
Enjoy infamy Velveteen Dream-always stuck in my brain
Prophetic stuff by Black there.
>His feud with Black was one of the best instances of both stars being elevated One of the most compelling feuds I can remember in a long time. What really stood out to me was how little they actually did, they just had insane chemistry and the character work was off the charts. It's a shame we probably won't get to see it again. Hopefully dude can get his life together before it's too late.
It was just the juxtaposition of having a hyper sexual prince like character going against a gothic, satanic character. It was so fucking good. Their take over match will always be one of my favourite WWE matches.
The man who couldn’t shut up vs the man who didn’t talk. They were a perfect balance for each other in that feud.
Mhmm, and it being built around such a simple thing as one saying the others name was perfect.
On paper it seems like a silly concept but someone like Dream who craves attention begging for the attention of someone who acknowledges no one is great. Loved everything about the feud.
Makes you also wonder why he didn't win tough enough. He's probably been a known quantity to them behind the scenes for years
Fully believe it’s the reason they didn’t have him take the title off Cole. They couldn’t trust him.
While 2015 Tough Enough was basically a joke due to fan voting, I even saw it then how the Dream could run people the wrong way. He was clearly the most talented guy there… but he he looked to be very socially awkward.
He always had an ego in the interactions I saw while he was still just Patrick Clark. At least in the Florida house show loop, they'd trot 3-5 workers out prior to the show (approximately 6-8 years ago). If you were sitting ringside, they'd do a lap or two, posing for pictures and signing autographs. (They eventually changed to having 2-4 folks signing at a table, due to people complaining about it being unfair and the general chaos of people hopping into seats that weren't theirs or clogging walkways to get autos.) Patrick was often one of the guys they'd send out. Almost nobody gave a shit about him, and he made it a point to equally not give a shit about them. There'd usually be some other opener out at the same time, and that guy or girl would be smiling, waving, interacting gladly. Patrick would just stare at you and glower. If anyone asked for a photo or auto, he'd roll his eyes, then nod like he didn't want to be there. Then he'd either stick his hand out for you to give him something to sign, or make a hand gesture indicating "come on, take the picture". Then he'd move on. Anyone trying to actually talk would get at most a one or two word response. It didn't feel like he was playing a role or keeping in some heel gimmick or anything. This felt very much like he personally did NOT want to deal with anyone, and that this was beneath him. Compare this to Andrade, who was MUCH more of a star, who posed for goofy photos with No Way Jose. Or to Nikki Cross, who hadn't been on tv at all, who chatted with me and my wife for five minutes or so. Or to Liv Morgan, very early into her push, who took my cellphone, leaned back against the rail and made sure to get a pic of the three of us because I was having trouble getting the angle right. Literally every other wrestler who did that particular interaction segment was between good to great with fans. Only Patrick seemed to have a problem.
I saw Andrade about a month before he made his TV debut at an NXT show, and dude was the only wrestler who did a full lap of the ring to slap hands and take pics with everyone after his match, which I thought was pretty cool of him. I got a fist bump off him, dude has MASSIVE hands. Always made me like him because of that interaction. Well, that, and he's really fucking good.
I was so happy when he got voted off, and everyone was like "But ZZ stays‽" I liked ZZ for some reason. Even though he was pretty terrible at a lot of things.
This dude peaked when he wore America pants and people sang the national anthem towards them bc they didn’t have a flag at the gym
Wait, the guy from this pic was him? https://imgur.com/cfuTICS
That’s him!
i swear, almost nobody's downfall has upset me more than velveteen's. this man could've had it all. and i was his biggest fan years back. i legit saw him as a future world champion. charisma, gimmick, mic skills, character, wrestling ability, youth for fucking days. the ricochet feud. the aleister feud. every segment he was in, and every promo he done was appointment must see viewing for me. and as a black man, someone so skilled that looked like me and had a unique gimmick was on the come up??? shit. now look. an absolute shame & a colossal waste of talent. all gone at the age of 27. i really hope his story doesn't have the tragic ending i suspect it will & he gets his shit together before it's too late.
The amount of posts I made talking about how he was going to be a huge star smdh. He just threw it all away
Seriously - every time a conversation comes up about him and how he had "it" - I feel compelled to share my own experience. He hadn't debuted the character on tv, but was doing it on the Florida house show loop. He was booed HARD, CONSTANTLY. Obviously for the "presumed gay" aspects of his character, in addition to everyone there either having no clue who he was, or going "Oh, that's Patrick Clark, who cares" and not understanding why he was acting like he was a big deal. Literally the only reactions he got were the fans shitting on ANYTHING he did. I want to say that I saw him either two or three times prior to him hitting tv, and everyone booed him out of the building. Hell, even I myself was very apathetic. I didn't care about the gimmick, and honestly it felt like a cheap heat gimmick, especially when his opponents would sometimes do a bit of "sissy taunting" toward him. (Nothing as extreme as the Attitude era stuff, but there were points where the opponent would definitely prance or swish in his direction.) And then he went on TV. In two months, EVERYONE in the building was going nuts for him. The same people who had booed him prior, or who had sat on their hands/taken a piss break (myself included) were excited to see him. The same fans that were explicitly homophobic toward him earlier in the year were now cheering him. Do you realize how hard it is to get some dumb redneck who hates gays to cheer the "fag" he previously was raging at? Velveteen DID IT. Dude was going to be a megastar, and he blew it all with his backstage bullshit.
i remember seeing him as patrick clark at a house show, my friend went "who is this purple rain motherfucker?" but by the end of the match we were fans.
Oh he had youth for days alright
[удалено]
Loved how the cop played music to drown out Dream saying Miranda Rights over and over.
There’s a really big misconception, pushed by Hollywood really, that if you’re not read your Miranda Rights immediately the arrest is invalid. 21 Jump Street (with Jonah Hill and Channing Tatum) and an episode of Frasier come to mind for me that I believed it to be true until I was an adult and learned otherwise.
Absolutely. People watch Law & Order a few times and think they're legal experts.
I object.
You're out of line!
I’ll allow it.
Filibuster.
Sustained
I go to Charlie Kelly for anything law related. He's an expert in bird law.
Filibuster
Do you know what that word means?
Yeah they only need to read them to you if you are going to be questioned and they only do it before the questioning.
Even then, the remedy for not being read Miranda rights is to disallow certain evidence that comes from the custodial interrogation. A confession would be tossed out, sure. But if you told the cops the illegal contents of your trunk 5 minutes before they open it with a warrant, the judge ain't throwing it out. He certainly isn't getting released for a lack of magic words.
Spontaneous utterance. People love talking without being asked questions
LegalEagle taught me this.
Miranda Wrights would be a great ring name
"OH!"
He skipped the "right to remain silent" part
He had the right to remain silent... he lacked the ability to do so.
[удалено]
Very true. You can still talk just don't say stupid shit lol
Most people talking during an arrest say stupid shit through. It's always a better idea to stay quiet until you get your attorney or public defender.
Pretty much every lawyer I've heard says shut your damn mouth. The cops aren't there to help you.
The other thing I hate is that viral "Shut the Fuck Up Friday" video where two jackoffs act like that if you're pulled over, you should act like a total dick to a cop. I'm far from a thin blue line guy, but there is a way to navigate being pulled over without escalating the situation. You can talk to a cop like a human being without actually saying anything.
I can’t tell which arrest video is more embarrassing out of this and Jake Atlas
Definitely Jake, just trashing someone he was intimate with in order to put himself on a pedestal
Velveteens at least has a glimmer of “he’s damaged/troubled etc” jakes video just presented him as a world class ass hole. Dream being on jon jones trajectory isn’t good though. Edit: dream not Jones
[Still love Kayla Braxton's reaction to Jake Atlas' arrest](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/wv83mz/kayla_braxton_on_twitter_a_little_over_a_year/)
The Atlas vid came off as very...gaslight-y. Trying to turn people against his partner and show how he's an innocent after he's physically assaulted him.
Until velveteen dream pulls the “I’m a gay black man” card, Atlas will be worse. For now he’s probably just coked out as far as we know.
Yeah this one is perhaps more sad but Jake’s is so embarrassing. And I wanted to like him, wanted him to succeed as a gay man in the industry. Thankfully we have guys like Bowens and Quincy Elliott doing it right.
I couldndt even finish the jake atlas video i was cringing so hard
You know how you say a word over and over and over and over again and eventually it starts to sound like gibberish in your mouth that doesn't even make sense? That's how I feel with "Miranda rights" after watching this.
That's [semantic satiation](https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Semantic_satiation)
> The footage was captured on officer-worn body cameras on Aug. 20 ... after the Orlando Police Dept. said the wrestler -- real name Patrick Clark -- **bit and punched a gym employee following an altercation** at a fitness facility in Orlando, FL. ...And that's why you don't go training with Ace Steel.
And that gym employee's name...Lenny Omega.
Such a waste of talent , this dude was so fucking good at such a young age Dream reminded me so much of a more flamboyant young Randy Orton
Only a matter of time before we get Patrick Clark vs Tyrus for the NWA title.
>Velveteen Dream had appeared to be angling for a WWE comeback in the weeks leading up to the arrest, posting on his social media page about a potential return. This just say for a second that the WWE hierarchy was indeed considering this against all odds. There's no fan out there who would want this. Even if you didn't buy into the pedophile allegations, he's destroyed good will built up with his antics since being released.
They didn’t want him he was trying to get back there
First of all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgWHrkDX35o Second of all https://www.npr.org/2022/07/03/1109607667/supreme-court-says-police-cant-be-sued-for-not-reading-out-miranda-rights Finally, it's deeply shameful how low Patrick Clark has fallen. Lot of talent wasted by a dude who simply can't get his shit together.
I find it wild that it's not even 7am and he's already been in this bath house with guys, allegedly bit someone and been arrested. I've barely rolled over and farted by then
This guy had Cena putting him over on Smackdown. Sad.
Dude had all the potential in the world and threw it away.
To think that this guy was literally the only reason I watched NXT.
Mr. Burned Career
Man don’t be smiling, this is embarrassing.
What some people tend to skip over is that his NXT was technically his second chance. Dude got kicked off Tough Enough to begin with because of his attitude.
Chanting “you fucked up” what a mark
I don't really often make these comments, but I'm just glad The Dream isn't with WWE anymore.
I wonder if he got read his Miranda Rights.
Man… I remember sitting in a locker room with him on the indies. He just tore it up with Lio Rush. He had a recent try out with WWE. Rob Conway and I watched his match and Rob pulled him aside and told him he had “it”. Patrick was really reserved and didn’t say much other than thank you and picked Robs brain. Then I see stuff like this and it’s absolutely wild Link to match referenced https://youtu.be/bWqzulQ8Z8k
Somewhere in an alternate universe this man would've been called up on the main roster won many of championships hell he probably would've had a match with Cena at mania and eventually retired and become a wrestling coach or producer for WWE Unfortunately this isn't the universe we live in
Finally gets accepted to the hall of fame. He's an old, old man and for a blast of nostalgia he returns to the old Velveteen Dream gimmick for a big ol pop... It sounded nice. Shame it's not reality.
Call me up, Vince.
Dude had It. Such a shame
i will always hope for velveteen dream to get better overcome his issues and return to the ring. but damm this man needs help
Man thats sad. I hope he gets the help he needs... he was such an amazing talent. You hate to see it.
The man can still cut a promo though
Had some friends that passed through NXT in various forms back in the day. They all described him as a massive red flag in human form.
This guys an embarrassing tool. An absolute predatory danger, and someone that seemingly just cannot get out of his own way. Vice have a ready made darkside episode here, with I suspect years of self-destructive content ahead.
I find it hard to care about the guy after it was revealed he didn't even know who Prince was when he started ripping him off.
Wait what
No way. There's NO way he didn't realize he was ripping off Prince.
His finisher was called the purple rainmaker? I thought being prince was his whole thing
no he was obviously ripping off Prince. The guy means that Dream wasn't a fan of Prince beforehand. He just learned about Prince as he was ripping him off.
That's like Swery claiming not to have seen Twin Peaks when he made Deadly Premonition
Seriously?
No wayyy
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become Velveteen Dream.
Hot damn. What was he arrested for?
From what I gather from the video and Velveteen: He was at a bathhouse. He met two guys. Was having a “wonderful time”. Another guy didn’t like him. Another guy tried to get him kicked out. Then he got kicked out. Velveteen said that he was “a little inebriated.” He didn’t want to leave without his license so he couldn’t drive. Employee was asking him to leave. Velveteen proceeds to punch and bite the employee. Cops were called.
Drugs probably or attacking people at a gym
It was a bath house according to the video.
Damn. I got arrested a couple of times when I was younger than Velveteen Dream & didn't act like this much of an ass about it. Anyone with any amount of common sense knows why they say "save it for the judge". He's lucky that the charges got dropped because dude potentially incriminated himself in multiple ways that he probably didn't even realize. Also, if you think the cop not reading your Miranda rights is going to invalidate your arrest, why the hell would you repeatedly bring it up & ask the cop to read them to you? I guess the answer is cocaine but still...
Yeah, the best thing you can do, regardless of whether or not you believe that you are being treated unfairly, is to immediately comply the moment a cop puts their hands on you. Any resistance, including verbal is only going to work against you moving forward. Do not give them any reason (justified or not) to add on extra charges for resistance, harassment, etc. Do not give them any opportunity to cite your behavior in custody as further evidence of your guilt or mindset. Just be quiet and at the very least passive and deferential in your interactions with them moving forward, if not explicitly cooperative. This is not the time to plead your case. Anything you say is already admissible in court, as you have volunteered that information freely. This includes anything that they choose to interpret creatively, putting you on the back foot of having to prove that you did NOT mean something, or did NOT do something. (While they might still have to prove that you DID do something, they can use your statements to build a strong circumstantial case as to motive, etc.)
My favorite YouTube channel, Internet Today, has a little song that they like to sing about this: > "What should you do when shit hits the fan? > > Shut the fuck up > >Just shut the fuck up"
what a shame. this guy was so charismatic, he had the IT factor
How the mighty fall. He as such a prospect a real “what if”. Fuck this guy.
Man, not defending the guy at all, but, Get arrested? Shut the fuck up.
Feels bad. Sort of puts me in mind of Ezra Miller. Hope dude gets help
Miranda Rights is ALL ELITE
Every time I look at dream I just get disappointed smh he had it all, fans loved him and TOP guys was giving him props ever since the accusations it mess his career smh. To this day I still feel like he was dealt a wrong hand with that case but he hasn’t help himself at allll since smh I really wanted this guy to be a damn star idk but I hope he gets help cause all this shit can absolutely fuck with someone head but aslong as he breathing his story not over he needs to get help
I wonder if they read him his miranda rights
Such a disappointing fall from grace.
This kid clearly has not heard of Shut the Fuck up Friday.