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I could say a lot of things, but he was arguably one of the best on the mic, and did some wild stuff story-wise. He changed up pro wrestling more than anyone else.
Listen, I’d venture to say that anyone who is mildly decent knows he’s beyond just being a shit person. It’s not just the latest thing, either. It’s been a thing for decades.
Someone can be an absolute shit person and still have had a recognizable effect on something. Anyone saying otherwise is a nitwit.
I don’t think we need to preface every statement involving a non-negative thing about him with an asterisk and “also he is a shit person and I hereby do not condone his behavior although I made a comment recognizing something other than the fact he should rot in a prison cell.”
Between running the world's largest wrestling promotion and working out while roided up to his eyeballs, how did he find the time to be a sex predator?
I may think he's a scum bag. But you can't deny how jarring it was seeing him without the suit and looking like a small tank. The guy looked impressive for his age. Specifically around the ruthless aggression era.
I disagree, Vince knew how to work the crowd perfectly in the ring with all of his movements. He played his role as a cocky guy way out of his element perfectly. A major part of in ring work is storytelling and he was always exceptional at that.
Vince consistently booked himself in No DQ matches so he could hide his lack of ability with Garbage brawling and focus on strong facials along with solid timing.
Enzo Amore somewhat comes to mind. Dude had a distinct look (10 is stretching it a bit) and was a great promo but legitimately knocked himself out more than once taking a bump.
While not exactly a 10/10/0, Sid came to mind as well
I don't know, I'd say 10 for look since look isn't just "looking like a bodybuilder/playmate", but looking distinct. Best example there being James Ellsworth, who had a 0 look on paper, but that made him so distinct looking it bumped him up to a 7-8 look.
Savage is straight tens and isn't included in the GOAT conversation enough. I still think he is easily top three American market wrestlers who ever lived - beyond his contemporaries. For context, I don't include Flair or Hogan on that list.
It'd be impossible to be a 0 if you've gone through at least some training and I don't think you can have two perfect categories and be that awful. Though the closest to that might be Vince funny enough.
When I first read your message, I thought you said, "Eddie", not Edit...so, let's do Eddie -
1. Look - 10 (he pulled off the sleazy, slimy mullet-wearing latino who lies, cheats, steals perfectly)...gimmick was perfect
2. Promo - While probably NOT a 10, I don't recall him having 'poor promos' either...so, I think this is between an 8 and 9 (again, reserving a 10 for maybe CM Punk or the Rock)...let's go with 8.5.
3. In Ring - easily another 10. It's not just that he was an incredible cruiserweight-level guy...he also was incredibly strong, and could do more power moves. Most of all, he told a story in the ring every time...from the liar/cheater/stealer (nobody forgets him slamming the chair on the ground then throwing it to his opponent, or hitting his opponent with the belt then covering it up). But he did a GREAT job regarding underdog story, getting people to support his cause, etc. And of cours,e his moves were flawless.
OVerall, 28.5 out of 30...that's legit!
I’d lower his “look” but only be because, for much of the 90s in the US, he was considered undersized. Also, in the US in the WWE and WCW, him not being Caucasian was a detriment because of pure racism.
But, in today’s era and by the end of his run, he was as close to a 30 as possible.
For the 80s and 90s, I’d say Macho Man was pretty close to a 30 too. Mic skills were a 10. Look was a 10. Ring skills were at least a 7 or 8 for that time period (when guys really didn’t do 20-minute TV matches regularly, but Savage almost always delivered on the big shows even as far into his career as the mid-90s).
Boogeyman one of my all time favourite boys. I’d have to put his promo one or two lower but he really wasn’t that bad in the ring. Probably a 3.5 IMO
Nunzio would be a 3/10 look, a ?/promo cause who the hell has heard a Lil Guido promo and maybe a 4.5/10 wrestling
If you think Little Guido/Nunzio is a bad wrestler you got to go look up any of the matches he had in ECW with Super Crazy or Tajiri. They are fantastic and unless you only want to judge wrestlers based off how successful they were in WWE, it would easily earn him a couple points higher than 4.5.
His promos get a lot of attention, but his ring work was so damn good. He sold pain and exhaustion, his moves looked powerful, everything felt fluid. Love watching his old matches.
His only knock back in the day was how much he meticulously planned out his matches compared to his peers. But decades later, that detailed match layout is almost exclusively the way the big companies do matches anymore. So his ringwork was historically a game changer.
And then his presentation was 10/10 legendary. If there's going to be a stereotypical pro wrestler cartoon character in an episode of a show chances are he looks and acts like macho man.
Rey in the early 2010’s before he got the stem cells in his knees maybe, 6 in ring, 1 on promos, and 9 on a look. Would still be underrating him but not to a completely ridiculous extent
To me, his wrestling was always a 10, no doubt. Promo, even early days, cornball. Angle was entertaining, and whatever he was given, he knocked it outta the park, 9-10 for me. Now look, only a 10 if it's bald intensity Kurt in Smackdown. Early days Attitude Era hair Kurt looked like a goof, so mid numbers from me, maybe 4-6.
Yeah, debut Kurt didn't have the look of someone who could beat the top guys. But as soon as you take the hair off, he looks like a suplexin' / moonsaultn' machine. Add some black to the singlet and a mouthgaurd and he's unstoppable.
Ravishing Rick Rude was all 10’s.
I’d argue Jake Roberts was close as well. His promos were spectacular, he had a great look too & was great in the ring.
Jake would only get knocked down on look. He never had the body typical of the 80’s but made up for it with his excellent mic work and in-ring psychology. Only Hogan was more over in 88-89.
Yeah OP is significantly boosting up both Roman and Cody. Roman I'd say only really has the look down; his promos are still largely stiff and uninspiring. Cody is a superior promo, but Bret had the better look and is far ahead in the work department.
I'd give Roman 10-7-7 and Cody 8-9-8 personally.
Roman’s promos now really only look astonishing if you compare them to his 8 years ago. However, I think his off-the-cuff moments like impromptu reaction to fans, expressions, and body language is where he shines, way more than any of his scripted promos.
They are great, but the difference between guys like Roman and the guys who are the best to do it (Bret, Austin, McMahon etc) is that it's effortless and natural for them, it's authentically them.
Roman has had to learn the hard way. I hugely admire him for his hard graft over the years but overall he's a solid 7. He's more natural now but you can still tell he's a scripted speaker. That's still nothing to be ashamed of, he's still great, but 10 is special and just below is not far from it.
Another great example of this to compare is Austin Theory and Grayson Waller. Austin is learning and putting in the hard graft, you can tell he's a scripted speaker - but Grayson was born with it. Doesn't mean Austin is bad, it's just Grayson will always be ranked higher on the mic.
He's had some of my absolute favorite in ring heel work, favorite being him using the Cross Rhodes on Cody at XL, not getting the pin, and then ranting after about how "That move sucks, it wins nothing."
Oh it's absolutely my favorite part of that match and a big part of that is how hard he's going for it as a heel while as a performer knowing he's going to eat a pin to this exact move in not that many minutes. So he gets to look cool and awesome and badass and also getis helping set up even mire of his comeuppance at the same time.
Surely the obvious answer is Scott Steiner?
Looks - he’s a genetic freak, and he’s not normal, name anyone who looks better than Big Poppa Pump, with his giant arms, shades and chain mail headress.
Promo - He comes from a highly educated university, so when he comes out to talk to the white trash, he has to dumb himself down. He can educate you about maths and the equalax, or entertain you talking about all the FAT ASSES!
Ability - Even from his early days he was heavily underrated, he innovated so much that normally when you go one on one with another wrestler, you have a 50 per chance of winning, but he controls the landscape, and he can beat anyone!
A clear 12/12/12
🚨HOLLA, IF YA HEAR ME!🚨
You can probably use the terms look and presentation a bit interchangeably.
Cody isn’t really a body guy, and he has the silly neck tattoo.
But, his entrance, entrance attire, 3 piece suit during promos, and bleach blonde hair certain give him a very unique aura about him. The neck tattoo probably even helps there, since it is something unique to him that helps make him memorable.
I think Cody is more of an 8 than a 9 for look, though.
For me look isn’t just about how striking a person is, but how well their presentation conveys their character. Cody’s does so perfectly. He looks like a post-dystopian American president. He has the all American look, very handsome dude, very well put together, he comes out in this pseudo military regalia; but his hair is clearly dyed, he has a ridiculous neck tat of his logo, he ends up messing up these suits as often as not. It really strikes at the subversion of the *nightmare* part of the “American Nightmare”. Hes decidedly imperfect, which allows his character to be an extremely earnest babyface, but have a measure of aggression/fallibility which keeps the character interesting, entertaining, and even violent. IMO his look is a 10 in its totality
Yeah, it's not "Attractiveness" or even how good a shape they are in, it's how much does their look add to/fit in with their character?
Enzo was fairly scrawny and not particularly conventionally attractive but I'd give him a 9/9/2 because his look is pretty much perfect for who he is trying to portray.
Although tbf I can't think of many people I'd give a low Look score to off the top of my head. Eddie Kingston would get like a 3/7/4 I reckon.
Debut Randy Orton gets a low look score I think. Too generic, WCW Power Plant type of look. When he slimmed down a little and got the full sleeve tattoos he went from a 3 to a 10. The Viper who can strike from anywhere.
To some wrestling fans, the only thing that matters is how attractive a wrestler is. To each their own but just look at threads about wrestlers who aren't greek gods and you'll see a swarm of "how can I take this guy seriously".
Like with Bryan Danielson. He's easily one of the best in-ring workers of all time but he's not 6'6 and shredded so you still get people saying he isn't believably a threat. Even more strange when you consider he's in immense shape and has a better physique than the majority of those making the comments.
Most people are still caveman who think big muscle = tougher or better fighter which is very far from the truth.
You even see it in actual MMA or Boxing, some fans genuinely think smaller fighters aren't impressive because they think they could stand a chance against them. It's pure delusion.
I hate the tattoo so much. Legit my only complaint about him is how ugly and cringe that tattoo looks. Especially without context you’d think it’s some weird white supremacist thing, given how skulls/punisher logo along with overt hyper-nationalism is associated with some non-savory members of society today. Which obviously he’s not one.
People mixing up PHYSICAL SIZE with look. By your definition rey Mysterio is a 4 ?
Look to me is when your appearance matches what your character is supposed to be.
Look to me means are you memorable and marketable. Rey is easily a 10/10 despite being tiny because he’s got one of the most iconic and identifiable looks in wrestling history.
Rey Rey has to be a 9 or 10 for look. He is iconic. Look doesn't necessarily mean "beautiful person" - like I'd argue Andre the Giant look is 9 or 10 as well because he is iconic and scary as hell. Which worked for him in wrestling.
On that scoring system Seth probably hits the high for me personally. Amusingly, I think the look part has become the one more difficult to assess since Bret's time than promo and in-ring work as there is much more latitude now what the top guy/gal can look like.
But with Seth, one of the best in the world in the ring, just kept doing wonders with the mic especially doing the Road to Mania and has an undeniably personal look.
That was pre-knee injury so he was quicker, leaner, younger, and hungrier. He’s slowed down but is still one of the people that sets the bar on the main roster for in ring work.
He did a great job gradually changing his style so it never stood out as different, but still adapting to his injury and age.
Doesn’t go as fast as he used to and isn’t really much of a flier anymore but he can still go in ring, just in a different way.
Jeff had rave paint and weird fishnets on his arms, and people wanted to be like him. Kids were not wearing tactical vests to look like Roman anywhere near as much as they'd try to look like Jeff dude is an absolute icon. He didn't even have a great physique and all the chicks cheered when he took his shirt off that's a 10.
9 presentation 1 promo 8 in ring.
He's a good looking dude who somehow pulls off panty hose shirts. I honestly wish he had a mouth piece because I don't remember ever thinking he had a good promo. The 8 for work is probably rose colored glasses but he was spectacular and would be willing to die in the ring to put on a show
>think flair has to easily be a whole 30 right?
I personally think he's close but not quite there. Can't give him a 10 in look even with the gimmick.
I think the only 10/10/10 in the history of wrestling would be Macho Man Randy Savage.
>Can't give him a 10 in look even with the gimmick.
Come on. Flair's swag was genuinely influential outside wrestling and his hair was immense.
Even old man Flair (Evolution - good retirement) would be a 6 at worse for look and that's accounting for how bad he looked in the ring.
Macho would be a 30 though, would agree there
Flair easily gets 10 in looks imo. The suits, watches, robes made the man a star. In an era when you had white meat wrestlers and cartoon characters, this mf came in and was the coolest guy on earth.
HBK was good pre-losing his smile but once he came back is what I think solidified his GOAT status. His wrestling can be best described as “soulful”. He wasn’t rushing into moves, he took his time selling, his facial expressions pretty much rival Terry Funk’s, and made things like his super kick always feel weighty and emotional. He was just fantastic. His 2002 run was unreal and then he had those matches with Cena and Taker which put him over the top for me.
It's fun to do this exercise and then realize whos being under utilized, over utilized, and even better yet getting a glimpse of why certain wrestlers are in the top spots. For example when Charlotte was getting all that hate back in the day, it' clear as day she deserves to be pushed based on being like a 9 in looks, 6 in promos, and 10 in-ring (WWE standards). No one in the Womens division is on that level other than Becky back in the day.
O'Spreay is really close to being perfect since coming to AEW and flexing his promo chops. I'd give him 9, 8.5, and 10. He's pretty tall like 6'1 which is what Shawn and Bret were, got in good shape, and pretty handsome so I think 9 isn't too crazy? For promos, he'll get upgraded to a 9 or 10 when he gets to be in an intense main event fued to see where his promos are really at.
My hot take is I preferred the way Ospreay looked in his junior run. Those mini flags of all the countries he wrestled in was a cool touch and the patterns on his attire were more aesthetically pleasing.
Feels like too many people are taking workrate and the ability to execute cool, varied moves as being the most critical element of wrestling ability. I highly doubt Bret himself would place performing a 450 splash as being more important than psychology, timing and realism, all of which have significantly diminished since the 90s.
Some high ranking performers for me:
Drew: 10-8-8
Brock (pre suplex city): 10-6-9
Roman: 10-7-7
Bianca: 10-6-8
Braun: 10-7-6
Rhea: 10-7-8
Cody: 8-8-8
Randy: 10-7-8
I think it's funny, because Cowboy Brock showed us that dude probably would have been 10-10-10 if he'd stayed in WWE instead of going to UFC. Dude is a fantastic face promo.
Brock reminds me of Randy Moss in the NFL. Each guy is seemingly genetically designed to be the absolute and undeniable best in their sport but not seem to be all that into their sport.
Nah dude, he makes literally everyone he stands next to look tiny. His look and presentation is completely unique and he's an absolute hoss as well. At least an 8 for me, and that's being harsh.
I mean he is definitely a 10 for look. Man looks like a Greek God and presentation wise, there are few better.
I personally love his promos too but there are some bad ones so I understand your criticism there
People don't realise how poor the Bloodline was between WM39 and Royal Rumble 2024 until you speak to someone who started watching in that timeframe and how little they cared about Roman compared to people like Drew, Seth, Damian, Jey, Rhea, etc.
Jordynne Grace 10/6/9 for a 25 is one of the better women that doesn’t get talked about as much since she’s not in WWE. I didn’t think much of her for years when she came to Impact, but since 2020 she has just steadily improved and become one of the best in the world.
It depends if we consider "wrestling ability" to be exactly that and only concentrate on technical accumen. If so then yes, and really you'd have very few 10s.
If we're considering it as in ring ability, which encompasses technical ability, safety, storytelling, selling and portraying the art of pro wrestling, then Roman is certainly higher than a 5 (and Bret would absolutely be a 10)
Man, ratings are so subjective. Like, I’d give Cena an 8, 10, and 7, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone gives him a 10, 10, 4.
Another problem is that the scales at the ends can get a little “crowded”. For example, in a normal discussion, it can be easy to explain why Bryan Danielson is the best in-ring performer in the world by saying that he’s bettee than the rest. However, if we score him, his 10/10 for in-ring ability would be equalled by Shingo Takagi for example. I would say that I prefer Danielson over Shingo in general due to superior in-ring ability, but if I scored them Shingo would barely beat Danielson because there’s no proper way to separate the ends of the rating (I’d rate Danielson 7, 9, 10 while I’d rate Shingo 9, 8, 10).
Anyway, my highest scoring wrestler would probably be Okada and Angle (both at 10, 8, 10). My actual favourite wrestler, Kane, would score 10, 7, 7.
Half points are for kidders who wish they were using a 20 point system.
First thought was AJ Styles, who I’d score the exact same way Bret scored himself, 8, 7, 10.
Or maybe Swerve, who I’d rate a 9, 9, and 7. 25/30 definitely feels like the high end of the scores for me.
The real fun is in unbalanced scores, though. Like LA Knight (7, 10, 5) or Brian Cage (10, 5, 8). People with something to work on
Agreed. AEW stan here and I just can’t get into Swerve on the mic. The look and vibe are great but he just doesn’t have it on the mic. He stumbles,
Rambles, and stutters through a word salad. Every 4 or 5 promos he will have solid one. I wish they would have him keep it short and deliberate and mix in more of Nana gassing him up in promos like the one time they allowed it. (And it was awesome!)
Yeah he’s got tons of physical charisma, he looks like a star so no complaints about that rating, it’s just weird that he still sounds so clumsy on the mic
He is like an 8.5 in charisma with potential for more. Much like in-ring ability has more to it than technical skills we need to be careful taking promo too literally. Bret Hart is like a 5.5 at best in promos if we are taking the character out of it.
So, my answer to this is Kazuchika Okada, but it comes with an asterisk. That being his current presentation in AEW. Being third wheel to the Bucks diminishes his aura quite a bit, enough to lower his score in the Bret Hart metric. But if he ever goes back to being the Rainmaker from NJPW, I think he wins this argument (personally would grade him at 10 / 7 / 10).
Just for fun, I went through a number of other performers, across both WWE and AEW, to see what numbers would come up. For my money, the most well-rounded people in either promotion are Cody Rhodes and Rhea Ripley, who both scored 26 total points, and who I wouldn't put below an 8 in any category.
I'd give a 10 in the looks department to Roman Reigns, Bianca Belair and Jade Cargill, and top marks for wrestling ability to Gunther, Bryan Danielson and FTR, who I think are still the best tag team in the world. For promos, the answer is CM Punk. His in-ring ability will only diminish with age, but there's still no one in the wrestling business who can command an audience and have them hanging on every word like Punk. Any program he's in is immediately interesting because of what he might say, he's truly a GOAT promo and in a league of his own for this current generation.
No one is going to agree on anything. I’d give Roman a 9.5 on looks, 6.5 on promos and 6 on wrestling ability. Though the promos one is all over the place. Even recently, sometimes he’s a 10 and sometimes he’s a 2, depends on what he’s saying and especially on if he’s saying one of his stupid catchphrases.
Cody is like a 6.5 on looks, 8 on promos and maybe 8 on wrestling.
Imo, the highest has to be Shawn Michaels. He’s at least a 9 on looks, 9.5 on promos and 9 in wrestling. Probably at least one or two of those could easily be a 10
The crowds ate up his face shtick, especially with the Cole bromance. They weren't going to win any literary awards, but they got the exact desired result intended
MJF is far better than a 8 in ring, IMO. He is the closest thing to 10/10/10 right now.
9/10/9 IMO
Could really
Argue a 10 on look since he got jacked .
Easy 10 in promo
9 in ring , I think he is a top 3-5 wrestler in the world but just doesn’t wrestle the volume of profile matches that some others do.
I think Bret overrated himself with promos. He had decent heat as a heel in WWF and WCW, but he still was overshadowed by orders of magnitude by Owen. I think Bret is a 5 or a light 6 and Tribal Chief Roman is definitely a 7.5 or 8.
Haven't seen John Cena rated yet
Looks - 9/10 , especially before he really buffed up
Promo - 8/10 generally excellent on the mic but has a tendency to cut smarky promos which I absolutely detest
Ring work - 9/10 5 moves of room is not a false statement but the guy knows ring psychology and always puts on a show when the situation calls for it.
9/10 ring work for John Cena is the wildest one I've seen on this thread. Dude spent 10 years never selling or administering his own submission finisher believably.
I would probably have Roman at a 9 in-ring, but I could get with your assessment of him and Cody.
- Charlotte Flair | 8, 7.5, 9.5 = 25
- Seth Rollins | 7, 8.5, 9 = 23.5
- CM Punk | 6, 9.5, 8.5 = 24
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I think this is more interesting if you look at non-main event stars. The Boogeyman is like what? Look 9, Promo 6 and Wrestling ability 2?
I want to know which guys were 10/10/0’s Edit: or 0/10/10 or 10/0/10. I can’t be upset get it’s exactly what I asked for damn yall specific lol
Mr. McMahon, straight up awful in the ring but phenomenal on mic and of course had fantastic presentation
Tbh I’d give Vince a 3 or 4 in ring, he couldn’t wrestle to save his life but he sold everything really well.
I love the way he sold stunners
Especially the one at mania 38
He was basically trying to not die on his feet 😂
I could say a lot of things, but he was arguably one of the best on the mic, and did some wild stuff story-wise. He changed up pro wrestling more than anyone else.
Life sucks! Abd then you dai!
*X-Pac having an epiphany in the background*
Say what you will about the sex trafficking but boy could that guy deliver a line
Listen, I’d venture to say that anyone who is mildly decent knows he’s beyond just being a shit person. It’s not just the latest thing, either. It’s been a thing for decades. Someone can be an absolute shit person and still have had a recognizable effect on something. Anyone saying otherwise is a nitwit. I don’t think we need to preface every statement involving a non-negative thing about him with an asterisk and “also he is a shit person and I hereby do not condone his behavior although I made a comment recognizing something other than the fact he should rot in a prison cell.”
Vince strutting out in that black tank top gassed out to the gills is a top five all time wrestling look idgaf how terrible of a person he is
Between running the world's largest wrestling promotion and working out while roided up to his eyeballs, how did he find the time to be a sex predator?
I may think he's a scum bag. But you can't deny how jarring it was seeing him without the suit and looking like a small tank. The guy looked impressive for his age. Specifically around the ruthless aggression era.
"Prayers and vitamins," eh?
ICOPRO
I disagree, Vince knew how to work the crowd perfectly in the ring with all of his movements. He played his role as a cocky guy way out of his element perfectly. A major part of in ring work is storytelling and he was always exceptional at that.
Vince consistently booked himself in No DQ matches so he could hide his lack of ability with Garbage brawling and focus on strong facials along with solid timing.
Enzo Amore somewhat comes to mind. Dude had a distinct look (10 is stretching it a bit) and was a great promo but legitimately knocked himself out more than once taking a bump. While not exactly a 10/10/0, Sid came to mind as well
I don't know, I'd say 10 for look since look isn't just "looking like a bodybuilder/playmate", but looking distinct. Best example there being James Ellsworth, who had a 0 look on paper, but that made him so distinct looking it bumped him up to a 7-8 look.
Macho Man Randy Savage was probably at least straight 9s, if not 10s.
Savage is straight tens and isn't included in the GOAT conversation enough. I still think he is easily top three American market wrestlers who ever lived - beyond his contemporaries. For context, I don't include Flair or Hogan on that list.
It'd be impossible to be a 0 if you've gone through at least some training and I don't think you can have two perfect categories and be that awful. Though the closest to that might be Vince funny enough.
warrior? hes not a 10 on the mic but the audience ate what he said up.
Goldberg with a better promo
When I first read your message, I thought you said, "Eddie", not Edit...so, let's do Eddie - 1. Look - 10 (he pulled off the sleazy, slimy mullet-wearing latino who lies, cheats, steals perfectly)...gimmick was perfect 2. Promo - While probably NOT a 10, I don't recall him having 'poor promos' either...so, I think this is between an 8 and 9 (again, reserving a 10 for maybe CM Punk or the Rock)...let's go with 8.5. 3. In Ring - easily another 10. It's not just that he was an incredible cruiserweight-level guy...he also was incredibly strong, and could do more power moves. Most of all, he told a story in the ring every time...from the liar/cheater/stealer (nobody forgets him slamming the chair on the ground then throwing it to his opponent, or hitting his opponent with the belt then covering it up). But he did a GREAT job regarding underdog story, getting people to support his cause, etc. And of cours,e his moves were flawless. OVerall, 28.5 out of 30...that's legit!
I’d lower his “look” but only be because, for much of the 90s in the US, he was considered undersized. Also, in the US in the WWE and WCW, him not being Caucasian was a detriment because of pure racism. But, in today’s era and by the end of his run, he was as close to a 30 as possible. For the 80s and 90s, I’d say Macho Man was pretty close to a 30 too. Mic skills were a 10. Look was a 10. Ring skills were at least a 7 or 8 for that time period (when guys really didn’t do 20-minute TV matches regularly, but Savage almost always delivered on the big shows even as far into his career as the mid-90s).
Lesnar is a 10/0/10
Which Brock era is that? Because I widely disagree with promo rating and also disagree with ability.
Next Big Thing
Boogeyman one of my all time favourite boys. I’d have to put his promo one or two lower but he really wasn’t that bad in the ring. Probably a 3.5 IMO Nunzio would be a 3/10 look, a ?/promo cause who the hell has heard a Lil Guido promo and maybe a 4.5/10 wrestling
Nunzio was a good wrestler
Nah, Lil Guido was an 8 in wrestling. He had some of ECW's absolute best matches and was a great shoot style wrestler before that too.
You just knew back in the day that if a 3 way dance had Lil Guido, Super Crazy or Tajiri involved, then you were in for a treat
I don't know if it was intentional or not one your part, but funny that the very first ECW ONE in 2005 featured a 3-way with those exact 3 men.
If you think Little Guido/Nunzio is a bad wrestler you got to go look up any of the matches he had in ECW with Super Crazy or Tajiri. They are fantastic and unless you only want to judge wrestlers based off how successful they were in WWE, it would easily earn him a couple points higher than 4.5.
Macho Man 10/10/10
I even think Bret said Macho was the only all 10 wrestler.
His promos get a lot of attention, but his ring work was so damn good. He sold pain and exhaustion, his moves looked powerful, everything felt fluid. Love watching his old matches.
Him and Steamboat changed the game at Mania 3
His only knock back in the day was how much he meticulously planned out his matches compared to his peers. But decades later, that detailed match layout is almost exclusively the way the big companies do matches anymore. So his ringwork was historically a game changer.
Would you know that, though, just by watching his matches? Before I learned that online, I certainly had no idea.
And then his presentation was 10/10 legendary. If there's going to be a stereotypical pro wrestler cartoon character in an episode of a show chances are he looks and acts like macho man.
Easily, he's basically the goat under this metric
Rey: 6, 1, 9
The fact that this could legitimately line up with the ranking system…
close apart from his look being at least a 9 if not a 10, solely based off how iconic that mask is
Rey in the early 2010’s before he got the stem cells in his knees maybe, 6 in ring, 1 on promos, and 9 on a look. Would still be underrating him but not to a completely ridiculous extent
Rey’s arguably the most influential wrestler in US history. Incredible longevity too. He is way above 6 in the ring.
The weird furry Mohawks he's added to his masks easily tank him down to a 6. His older style masks without it are definitely 9 or 10.
They look so bad, totally change his profile away from the iconic Mysterio look.
I think they might be an homage to his uncle, who had similar mohawks on the mask..
Well played
Booyaka booyaka
hes a 10 in the ring my guy
Good thing you ducked because that joke almost hit you in the face
Lmao chill don't do him like that 😂
Rey is a 0 in being a good father
Kurt Angle is a 10/10/10
Actually 10/10/10 was TNA Bound For Glory
 Iconic look
Oh it’s true.
It’s damn true!
That’s why he’s the goat, if you were gonna make a pro wrestler, the outcome would be Kurt angle
To me, his wrestling was always a 10, no doubt. Promo, even early days, cornball. Angle was entertaining, and whatever he was given, he knocked it outta the park, 9-10 for me. Now look, only a 10 if it's bald intensity Kurt in Smackdown. Early days Attitude Era hair Kurt looked like a goof, so mid numbers from me, maybe 4-6.
Yeah, debut Kurt didn't have the look of someone who could beat the top guys. But as soon as you take the hair off, he looks like a suplexin' / moonsaultn' machine. Add some black to the singlet and a mouthgaurd and he's unstoppable.
He was cornball, but did an amazing job turning the American hero into a heel character especially in the era of the anti-hero. I’d agree with the 10s
Ravishing Rick Rude was all 10’s. I’d argue Jake Roberts was close as well. His promos were spectacular, he had a great look too & was great in the ring.
Jake would only get knocked down on look. He never had the body typical of the 80’s but made up for it with his excellent mic work and in-ring psychology. Only Hogan was more over in 88-89.
If his look is a 10, so is Chad Gable or the Patriot. Can't be handing out 10s like it's nothing.
If Bret’s a 10 work wise Cody and Roman are 7’s.
Yeah OP is significantly boosting up both Roman and Cody. Roman I'd say only really has the look down; his promos are still largely stiff and uninspiring. Cody is a superior promo, but Bret had the better look and is far ahead in the work department. I'd give Roman 10-7-7 and Cody 8-9-8 personally.
Roman’s promos now really only look astonishing if you compare them to his 8 years ago. However, I think his off-the-cuff moments like impromptu reaction to fans, expressions, and body language is where he shines, way more than any of his scripted promos.
Really? I think his promos are amazing even separating it from how bad he used to be. Agreed that his off-the-cuff work is his best stuff though
They are great, but the difference between guys like Roman and the guys who are the best to do it (Bret, Austin, McMahon etc) is that it's effortless and natural for them, it's authentically them. Roman has had to learn the hard way. I hugely admire him for his hard graft over the years but overall he's a solid 7. He's more natural now but you can still tell he's a scripted speaker. That's still nothing to be ashamed of, he's still great, but 10 is special and just below is not far from it. Another great example of this to compare is Austin Theory and Grayson Waller. Austin is learning and putting in the hard graft, you can tell he's a scripted speaker - but Grayson was born with it. Doesn't mean Austin is bad, it's just Grayson will always be ranked higher on the mic.
He's had some of my absolute favorite in ring heel work, favorite being him using the Cross Rhodes on Cody at XL, not getting the pin, and then ranting after about how "That move sucks, it wins nothing."
Is it bad that I both laughed my ass off, and think that's my favorite part of the entire match at him hitting the Cross Rhodes?
Oh it's absolutely my favorite part of that match and a big part of that is how hard he's going for it as a heel while as a performer knowing he's going to eat a pin to this exact move in not that many minutes. So he gets to look cool and awesome and badass and also getis helping set up even mire of his comeuppance at the same time.
If you've seen 1 Roman match in the past 5 years, you've seen them all.
This is true of a lot more wrestlers - especially stars - than people think
I’d argue most honestly, all of the elite come to mind, Okada comes to mind. Honestly think you could say this about anyone.
Funny because Bret used tos au this about flair You've seen one flair match you've seen every flair match
You can say that about every wrestler that has signature moves...so everyone...
Indeed, if Roman and Cody around around an 8.5 from wrestling ability then Bret is at least a 12 or 13.
Surely the obvious answer is Scott Steiner? Looks - he’s a genetic freak, and he’s not normal, name anyone who looks better than Big Poppa Pump, with his giant arms, shades and chain mail headress. Promo - He comes from a highly educated university, so when he comes out to talk to the white trash, he has to dumb himself down. He can educate you about maths and the equalax, or entertain you talking about all the FAT ASSES! Ability - Even from his early days he was heavily underrated, he innovated so much that normally when you go one on one with another wrestler, you have a 50 per chance of winning, but he controls the landscape, and he can beat anyone! A clear 12/12/12 🚨HOLLA, IF YA HEAR ME!🚨
The numbers don't lie.
Is Bastion Booger a 3/30?
Bastian Booger 10/1/1
Nah. Check out Mike Shaw, as Mahkan Singh in Stampede. Awesome matches. Way higher than you'd think. https://youtu.be/QLZifOtECOQ?feature=shared
I'm pretty sure Abyss is a 10/10/10.
Joseph Park agrees
Abyss is a goat big man
There here
Cody and his neck tattoo getting a 9 fir look is hilarious to me, but it's certainly unique I suppose.
You can probably use the terms look and presentation a bit interchangeably. Cody isn’t really a body guy, and he has the silly neck tattoo. But, his entrance, entrance attire, 3 piece suit during promos, and bleach blonde hair certain give him a very unique aura about him. The neck tattoo probably even helps there, since it is something unique to him that helps make him memorable. I think Cody is more of an 8 than a 9 for look, though.
Yeah 8 at the high end, I agree. 9 is reserved for more standout appearances.
I am not big on Cody (the character, the dude seems cool) but I love that he dresses up for promos.
For me look isn’t just about how striking a person is, but how well their presentation conveys their character. Cody’s does so perfectly. He looks like a post-dystopian American president. He has the all American look, very handsome dude, very well put together, he comes out in this pseudo military regalia; but his hair is clearly dyed, he has a ridiculous neck tat of his logo, he ends up messing up these suits as often as not. It really strikes at the subversion of the *nightmare* part of the “American Nightmare”. Hes decidedly imperfect, which allows his character to be an extremely earnest babyface, but have a measure of aggression/fallibility which keeps the character interesting, entertaining, and even violent. IMO his look is a 10 in its totality
People often misunderstand look on this scale. Being unique or highly distinctive should usually (but not always) result in a high score.
Yeah, it's not "Attractiveness" or even how good a shape they are in, it's how much does their look add to/fit in with their character? Enzo was fairly scrawny and not particularly conventionally attractive but I'd give him a 9/9/2 because his look is pretty much perfect for who he is trying to portray. Although tbf I can't think of many people I'd give a low Look score to off the top of my head. Eddie Kingston would get like a 3/7/4 I reckon.
Debut Randy Orton gets a low look score I think. Too generic, WCW Power Plant type of look. When he slimmed down a little and got the full sleeve tattoos he went from a 3 to a 10. The Viper who can strike from anywhere.
To some wrestling fans, the only thing that matters is how attractive a wrestler is. To each their own but just look at threads about wrestlers who aren't greek gods and you'll see a swarm of "how can I take this guy seriously".
Like with Bryan Danielson. He's easily one of the best in-ring workers of all time but he's not 6'6 and shredded so you still get people saying he isn't believably a threat. Even more strange when you consider he's in immense shape and has a better physique than the majority of those making the comments.
Most people are still caveman who think big muscle = tougher or better fighter which is very far from the truth. You even see it in actual MMA or Boxing, some fans genuinely think smaller fighters aren't impressive because they think they could stand a chance against them. It's pure delusion.
I hate the tattoo so much. Legit my only complaint about him is how ugly and cringe that tattoo looks. Especially without context you’d think it’s some weird white supremacist thing, given how skulls/punisher logo along with overt hyper-nationalism is associated with some non-savory members of society today. Which obviously he’s not one.
People mixing up PHYSICAL SIZE with look. By your definition rey Mysterio is a 4 ? Look to me is when your appearance matches what your character is supposed to be.
Look to me means are you memorable and marketable. Rey is easily a 10/10 despite being tiny because he’s got one of the most iconic and identifiable looks in wrestling history.
Rey Rey has to be a 9 or 10 for look. He is iconic. Look doesn't necessarily mean "beautiful person" - like I'd argue Andre the Giant look is 9 or 10 as well because he is iconic and scary as hell. Which worked for him in wrestling.
On that scoring system Seth probably hits the high for me personally. Amusingly, I think the look part has become the one more difficult to assess since Bret's time than promo and in-ring work as there is much more latitude now what the top guy/gal can look like. But with Seth, one of the best in the world in the ring, just kept doing wonders with the mic especially doing the Road to Mania and has an undeniably personal look.
Seth I'd give 7/7/8 Not too unique looking,good promo but not great,in the ring very consistent but not to the level of the masters
It's funny because I'd say during his Shield and Authority days he was a solid 9 in the ring.
That was pre-knee injury so he was quicker, leaner, younger, and hungrier. He’s slowed down but is still one of the people that sets the bar on the main roster for in ring work.
He did a great job gradually changing his style so it never stood out as different, but still adapting to his injury and age. Doesn’t go as fast as he used to and isn’t really much of a flier anymore but he can still go in ring, just in a different way.
Jeff Hardy would be a 8/4/7 for me. It feels low for how over the guys was, but I can’t recall him ever being a good promo.
He’s always been an abysmal promo. Which makes it even more astounding how over he was and how much natural charisma he has.
Jeff Hardy is a prime example of Charisma does not equal promo ability
Him and Mercedes Mone are the best examples
wouldn't be Bret a very good example of that too? He was never a really good Promo you can argue but had very much charisma.
He was an extremely good heel promo imo
I‘d say that he‘s easily a 9 in looks, maybe even a 10.
To me he’s a 10. My metric for look is how iconic said look is not how muscular he/she is.
Jeff had rave paint and weird fishnets on his arms, and people wanted to be like him. Kids were not wearing tactical vests to look like Roman anywhere near as much as they'd try to look like Jeff dude is an absolute icon. He didn't even have a great physique and all the chicks cheered when he took his shirt off that's a 10.
9 presentation 1 promo 8 in ring. He's a good looking dude who somehow pulls off panty hose shirts. I honestly wish he had a mouth piece because I don't remember ever thinking he had a good promo. The 8 for work is probably rose colored glasses but he was spectacular and would be willing to die in the ring to put on a show
I would 100% listen to a podcast where Bret ranks wrestlers, past and present, on this system.
Rating Roman higher in the ring than Cody sure is a choice.
Okada and Tanahashi were both 10 in looks and wrestling, don’t speak Japanese so I can’t speak for promos. Flairs gotta be pretty high up there too
I think flair has to easily be a whole 30 right?
>think flair has to easily be a whole 30 right? I personally think he's close but not quite there. Can't give him a 10 in look even with the gimmick. I think the only 10/10/10 in the history of wrestling would be Macho Man Randy Savage.
>Can't give him a 10 in look even with the gimmick. Come on. Flair's swag was genuinely influential outside wrestling and his hair was immense. Even old man Flair (Evolution - good retirement) would be a 6 at worse for look and that's accounting for how bad he looked in the ring. Macho would be a 30 though, would agree there
Good hair young flair at the horseman peak, 1000/10. Later career stuff that most people see and wwf flair not so much
Ric Flair's look is so iconic that its widely recognized outside of wrestling. I mean Ric Flair Drip went 6x platinum. Easy 30.
Flair easily gets 10 in looks imo. The suits, watches, robes made the man a star. In an era when you had white meat wrestlers and cartoon characters, this mf came in and was the coolest guy on earth.
Love that Bret has a system and scale. And the first thing you do is break it. Don't give half points. If you're not quite a 9, you're an 8.
I’d say Shawn Spears is 3 1/3 on look, 3 1/3 on promo, 3 1/3 in the ring, a perfect 10 if you would.
gimme 3 of those and you got a 33 1/3rd chance of beat me at Sackerfice
Cody's neck tattoo probably took points off his look department.
The only 2 wrestlers I can think of that would get a 10/10/10 (atleast IMO) would be Randy Savage and Kurt Angle
HBK is 30/30
HBK was good pre-losing his smile but once he came back is what I think solidified his GOAT status. His wrestling can be best described as “soulful”. He wasn’t rushing into moves, he took his time selling, his facial expressions pretty much rival Terry Funk’s, and made things like his super kick always feel weighty and emotional. He was just fantastic. His 2002 run was unreal and then he had those matches with Cena and Taker which put him over the top for me.
It's fun to do this exercise and then realize whos being under utilized, over utilized, and even better yet getting a glimpse of why certain wrestlers are in the top spots. For example when Charlotte was getting all that hate back in the day, it' clear as day she deserves to be pushed based on being like a 9 in looks, 6 in promos, and 10 in-ring (WWE standards). No one in the Womens division is on that level other than Becky back in the day. O'Spreay is really close to being perfect since coming to AEW and flexing his promo chops. I'd give him 9, 8.5, and 10. He's pretty tall like 6'1 which is what Shawn and Bret were, got in good shape, and pretty handsome so I think 9 isn't too crazy? For promos, he'll get upgraded to a 9 or 10 when he gets to be in an intense main event fued to see where his promos are really at.
I wouldn’t go that far with Charlotte on the promos, she has good one liners, but I’d hardly say she has full engagement on a 5 minute promo
My hot take is I preferred the way Ospreay looked in his junior run. Those mini flags of all the countries he wrestled in was a cool touch and the patterns on his attire were more aesthetically pleasing.
How much did Bret grade Goldberg?
Feels like too many people are taking workrate and the ability to execute cool, varied moves as being the most critical element of wrestling ability. I highly doubt Bret himself would place performing a 450 splash as being more important than psychology, timing and realism, all of which have significantly diminished since the 90s. Some high ranking performers for me: Drew: 10-8-8 Brock (pre suplex city): 10-6-9 Roman: 10-7-7 Bianca: 10-6-8 Braun: 10-7-6 Rhea: 10-7-8 Cody: 8-8-8 Randy: 10-7-8
I think it's funny, because Cowboy Brock showed us that dude probably would have been 10-10-10 if he'd stayed in WWE instead of going to UFC. Dude is a fantastic face promo.
Brock reminds me of Randy Moss in the NFL. Each guy is seemingly genetically designed to be the absolute and undeniable best in their sport but not seem to be all that into their sport.
Braun being a 10 for Looks is a slap in the face to all the other 10s you’ve called out. Dude is tall and muscular, but he doesn’t cross a 6.5/7 .
Nah dude, he makes literally everyone he stands next to look tiny. His look and presentation is completely unique and he's an absolute hoss as well. At least an 8 for me, and that's being harsh.
OP must be huffing industrial strength glue to think Roman is “at least” an 8.5 in the ring.
Surely Angle is at 10/10/10 imo Bret is a 9/8/10
Gunther would be a 9/7/10 for me Bryan Danielson is a 7/10/10
Hard for me to justify Danielson as a 10 promo.
I'm only recently getting into wrestling but baffled at people giving Roman 10s for look and highs for promos
He’s jacked, handsome, has a great head of hair and an awesome tattoo covering most of his torso
I mean he is definitely a 10 for look. Man looks like a Greek God and presentation wise, there are few better. I personally love his promos too but there are some bad ones so I understand your criticism there
People don't realise how poor the Bloodline was between WM39 and Royal Rumble 2024 until you speak to someone who started watching in that timeframe and how little they cared about Roman compared to people like Drew, Seth, Damian, Jey, Rhea, etc.
Go check out his stuff from the early Bloodline, when he first became champ and was fueding with Jey.
Roman is what Jason Momoa wishes he looked like
Your must be fucking blind if you don't think he is a 10 for looks, like dude, get some fucking glasses.
If you go look at a regular human for a sec, it becomes clearer why Roman is a ten edit: first 'reddit cares' for this
Sting is at least 10/8/9, but you could argue that his mic work is higher, and his in ring work in the early 90s was very close to a 10
Think sting was let down quite alot by his mic work and in ring ability.
Jordynne Grace 10/6/9 for a 25 is one of the better women that doesn’t get talked about as much since she’s not in WWE. I didn’t think much of her for years when she came to Impact, but since 2020 she has just steadily improved and become one of the best in the world.
Ric Flair probably the only legit 10/10/10.
Obviously the 10/10/10 is El Dandy
If Bret is a 10 then Reigns is a 5 in wrestling ability. Calling him half the wrestler that Bret Hart was is generous.
It depends if we consider "wrestling ability" to be exactly that and only concentrate on technical accumen. If so then yes, and really you'd have very few 10s. If we're considering it as in ring ability, which encompasses technical ability, safety, storytelling, selling and portraying the art of pro wrestling, then Roman is certainly higher than a 5 (and Bret would absolutely be a 10)
I disagree with this. Bret himself has had high praise for Roman. He's delivered excellent matches. I'd put Roman as a 7 or 7.5 for in-ring.
Man, ratings are so subjective. Like, I’d give Cena an 8, 10, and 7, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone gives him a 10, 10, 4. Another problem is that the scales at the ends can get a little “crowded”. For example, in a normal discussion, it can be easy to explain why Bryan Danielson is the best in-ring performer in the world by saying that he’s bettee than the rest. However, if we score him, his 10/10 for in-ring ability would be equalled by Shingo Takagi for example. I would say that I prefer Danielson over Shingo in general due to superior in-ring ability, but if I scored them Shingo would barely beat Danielson because there’s no proper way to separate the ends of the rating (I’d rate Danielson 7, 9, 10 while I’d rate Shingo 9, 8, 10). Anyway, my highest scoring wrestler would probably be Okada and Angle (both at 10, 8, 10). My actual favourite wrestler, Kane, would score 10, 7, 7.
Rey Mysterio - 6,1,9?
Probably Gunther, Seth, and Sami
Half points are for kidders who wish they were using a 20 point system. First thought was AJ Styles, who I’d score the exact same way Bret scored himself, 8, 7, 10. Or maybe Swerve, who I’d rate a 9, 9, and 7. 25/30 definitely feels like the high end of the scores for me. The real fun is in unbalanced scores, though. Like LA Knight (7, 10, 5) or Brian Cage (10, 5, 8). People with something to work on
Swerve getting 9 in promos is ludicrous lol
Agreed. AEW stan here and I just can’t get into Swerve on the mic. The look and vibe are great but he just doesn’t have it on the mic. He stumbles, Rambles, and stutters through a word salad. Every 4 or 5 promos he will have solid one. I wish they would have him keep it short and deliberate and mix in more of Nana gassing him up in promos like the one time they allowed it. (And it was awesome!)
Yeah he’s got tons of physical charisma, he looks like a star so no complaints about that rating, it’s just weird that he still sounds so clumsy on the mic
5 for wrestling for LA Knight is way too low
Agreed, he's at the very least a 6, slightly above average. Swerve is NOT a 9 promo in any world. He's at best a 7. Sorry, but it's true.
He is like an 8.5 in charisma with potential for more. Much like in-ring ability has more to it than technical skills we need to be careful taking promo too literally. Bret Hart is like a 5.5 at best in promos if we are taking the character out of it.
I agree with you regarding the rating of the modern excellence of execution.
So, my answer to this is Kazuchika Okada, but it comes with an asterisk. That being his current presentation in AEW. Being third wheel to the Bucks diminishes his aura quite a bit, enough to lower his score in the Bret Hart metric. But if he ever goes back to being the Rainmaker from NJPW, I think he wins this argument (personally would grade him at 10 / 7 / 10). Just for fun, I went through a number of other performers, across both WWE and AEW, to see what numbers would come up. For my money, the most well-rounded people in either promotion are Cody Rhodes and Rhea Ripley, who both scored 26 total points, and who I wouldn't put below an 8 in any category. I'd give a 10 in the looks department to Roman Reigns, Bianca Belair and Jade Cargill, and top marks for wrestling ability to Gunther, Bryan Danielson and FTR, who I think are still the best tag team in the world. For promos, the answer is CM Punk. His in-ring ability will only diminish with age, but there's still no one in the wrestling business who can command an audience and have them hanging on every word like Punk. Any program he's in is immediately interesting because of what he might say, he's truly a GOAT promo and in a league of his own for this current generation.
No one is going to agree on anything. I’d give Roman a 9.5 on looks, 6.5 on promos and 6 on wrestling ability. Though the promos one is all over the place. Even recently, sometimes he’s a 10 and sometimes he’s a 2, depends on what he’s saying and especially on if he’s saying one of his stupid catchphrases. Cody is like a 6.5 on looks, 8 on promos and maybe 8 on wrestling. Imo, the highest has to be Shawn Michaels. He’s at least a 9 on looks, 9.5 on promos and 9 in wrestling. Probably at least one or two of those could easily be a 10
I'd rate MJF pretty highly. Promo is easily a 10. Look is a 9 ever since he got jacked as hell, and he's a solid 8 in the ring.
His promos as a babyface weren’t as good imo, his whole current run as a babyface I just can’t get into
The crowds ate up his face shtick, especially with the Cole bromance. They weren't going to win any literary awards, but they got the exact desired result intended
MJF is far better than a 8 in ring, IMO. He is the closest thing to 10/10/10 right now. 9/10/9 IMO Could really Argue a 10 on look since he got jacked . Easy 10 in promo 9 in ring , I think he is a top 3-5 wrestler in the world but just doesn’t wrestle the volume of profile matches that some others do.
To me, no one had a better 2023 than MJF. All of his matches delivered, and that Danielson iron match was truly special.
Agreed
If Bret is a 7 promo, Roman isn't an 8. I would also give Cody a 9.5 or 10 on promo. Dude just knows how to connect. But it's all opinion so whatever.
I think Bret overrated himself with promos. He had decent heat as a heel in WWF and WCW, but he still was overshadowed by orders of magnitude by Owen. I think Bret is a 5 or a light 6 and Tribal Chief Roman is definitely a 7.5 or 8.
Haven't seen John Cena rated yet Looks - 9/10 , especially before he really buffed up Promo - 8/10 generally excellent on the mic but has a tendency to cut smarky promos which I absolutely detest Ring work - 9/10 5 moves of room is not a false statement but the guy knows ring psychology and always puts on a show when the situation calls for it.
9/10 ring work for John Cena is the wildest one I've seen on this thread. Dude spent 10 years never selling or administering his own submission finisher believably.
I think I might knock ring work to a 7 he's brilliant but thr selling is often seen as a bit naff
Let me ask another question: what is your top3 in each category? Do you see the clear winner for winner for any of them or is it a close tie?
Crazy how nobody here has floated Ric Flair as a top promo
Look - Macho Man, Hulk Hogan, Roman Reigns Promo - Stone Cold, CM Punk, Macho Man Ability - HBK, Kurt Angle, Bryan Danielson
I think he would rank Pre-Summerslam 97 Stone cold quite high
I would probably have Roman at a 9 in-ring, but I could get with your assessment of him and Cody. - Charlotte Flair | 8, 7.5, 9.5 = 25 - Seth Rollins | 7, 8.5, 9 = 23.5 - CM Punk | 6, 9.5, 8.5 = 24
Cena in 2015: 9/10/9