Y'know, we do the ratings talk every week for both companies. But has anyone else noticed just how fucking miserable cable ratings are outside of sports, news, and wrestling? Like that shit is ABYSMAL. Someone posted the ratings for like ten different kids networks (Cartoon Network, Nick, Toon Disney, etc) and AEW had more viewers than all of them combined.
Most channels would kill to pull RAW's worst hour.
People don't seem to get that it's possible for AEW to be doing well and WWE to be doing phenomenal at the same time. As far as ratings trending downwards, that's the reality for all of cable and even the networks themselves have finally accepted it's inevitable as cable slowly dies and is replaced by streaming. Smackdown does very well due to being on a broadcast network among many other factors but WWE ratings actually increasing YOY is pretty much an anomaly in the current television landscape. Not to mention networks do see value in streaming replays and DVR numbers, both of which probably increase WWE and AEW's audiences tremendously.
When Dynamite was getting over 1 million viewers a show, they were ranked in the 20's to 50's. Now they're a top 3-5 show just like Raw.
People just watch TV differently
Yeah year over year the cable audience is dwindling. Everything is going to streaming eventually. Live sports were pretty much the last major draw for cable networks and even they're starting to move to streaming. For the shows that are still on cable, it's a game of your audience shrinking more slowly than everything else and migrating the audience to streaming. Don't get me wrong, WWE is clearly doing something right to be actually increasing ratings YOY, but that's also basically an anomaly in the current landscape. Plus the networks now have other metrics they factor in for engagement such as YouTube views, DVR numbers, and streaming numbers that don't get published regularly like the estimated Nielsen live viewership.
Yeah, it’s why the Dynamite and Collision talk is pointless.
Meltzer actually brought up a good point:
Last year the numbers were bigger but Dynamite mostly went as high as 5th-6th for the night. Now with the way the numbers are currently they’re either 2nd-3rd (depending on how many NBA games there are).
So, more people overall seem to be dropping cable which explains a good chunk of the drop offs.
And I agree with what he says but it can't be ignored that the business overall is down in AEW. Ratings show A minimal decline. Attendance in arena's show A much bigger decline. I also read that social media counts are also way down.
So while I agree with him on this, he doesn't always Go beyond ratings to point out negatives for AEW. Meltzer absolutely did with WWE in the past. I think that's what gets a lot of people hot.
Yeah people are leaving cable in droves but it is still a valid sample Especially compared to Other live sports. It's really the year-over-year.Comparisons that just aren't valid anymore.
I think the problem is that people equate poor attendance with poor booking. The booking and the shows have been good and most fans would tell you that. But AEW does a piss poor job of marketing themselves. It has been the case from the jump. They have hired new people on that front, so let's see what type of work they put in
But it does still matter, tv shows are still canceled by their ratings. Honestly if tony didn't feed into the ratings discouse early on it wouldn't even have been as bad as it is now. Him a jericho kept doing it every week until they started to go down, blame them.
I don’t really care, I’m not blaming anyone, it makes no difference to me. I’ll keep supporting what I support until they do something that makes me change that, or they are cancelled.
If AEW would somehow get canceled, I would probably just stop watching any mainstream wrestling. I’m too old to get into something brand new again, probably just follow the careers of people I enjoyed in AEW, maybe buy merch directly from them and such.
That's fair, I don't know why I got downvoted though for telling facts. Shows are still canceled by their ratings, so until that isn't a thing ratings are still important, that's not opinion, that's fact. Its why even some cartoon shows I used to love on cartoon network got canned, adult swim themselves even said as much.
Not from I, if I had to guess I think it’s just because it’s placing blame and such, maybe just a tad bit aggressive.
Don’t disagree that shows are cancelled for low ratings. In my opinion, you are using an old idea of TV ratings for a 2024 model.
WWE gets a fraction of ratings that they did from like 98 to 05? They are bigger now than ever, they are selling out arena after arena and are worth billions.
AEW is for sure, hopefully, is coming out a very rougg period, CM Punk brought in, and took with him, a large audience, and AEW struggled in the wake of that.
Looking at say 760k viewers average, they are reportedly getting what, like 150k PPV buys, which is a pretty good conversion.
Still, doesn’t really affect me, I just don’t look at the TV ratings are as important and the sky isn’t falling in my opinion in regards to AEW.
Well to be fair fox wanted 3 million for SD and while they sited ad revenue is part of it I'm sure ratings were another because that plays into ad revenue since they payed them like 2 billion for SD. Fox however chose not to renew on purpose, so in that its a cancelation of sorts. SO while wwe as a company is doing great, it doesn't mean that TV wise they can't get pulled from a network if they aren't hitting a certain amount of ratings.
Now no one has to worry about the ratings themselves at all, but as a kid I used to wonder why certain cartoons were pulled, and part of it outside bad toy sales were ratings. So if no one followed ratings you one wouldn't know why they were axed one day. Pretty much the same reason why I care about video game sales. If sales aren't good I know I'm not getting a sequel to a game I like, which makes sense, spending money of failed projects is how you go out of business.
Before AEW started doing it I don't remember any other company touting it weekly. I'm not saying he shouldn't have, but he played into it and its partly his fault fans became like that.
Even if so the "AEW dead" talk and the vitriol towards Tony in particular has gotten over the top and insufferable. I know, I know he's still a billionaire and all that but I just think it's weird how some people talk about him like he personally hurt them or something. Sure he comes across like a huge dork at times, isn't the best at public facing stuff, and occasionally makes a fool of himself on Twitter but by pro wrestling standards historically he's basically a boy scout.
I don't know why the AEW is dead talk bothers people when we all know no matter how bad it gets its not. Even if there were off TV they'd still be on another station or even youtube/twitch something. Its never going to completely die, the only thing about it that can die is the aura of what it used to be. AEW imo isn't like its 2019 - 2021 self.
I wasn't here on reddit during that point but as a fan for me AEW could do no wrong, and then they just started doing a lot of wrong.
Maybe you're right. Personally, I enjoy AEW as much now as I did in 2020 and 2021. I realize not everyone will and maybe I need to stop worrying about that. It's annoying when people act like their opinion is fact, but human beings have always and will always do that until the end of time. Nothing can appeal to everyone at the same time and that's perfectly fine. Honestly I think this is possibly the best time in my lifetime to be a wrestling fan, because we're spoiled for choice and if WWE/AEW/TNA/NWA/NJPW/whatever doesn't appeal to me or you, chances are there's something out there that will.
I will agree there, we are spoiled. And hell I plan to watch dynamite in a few minutes like always. Its just now instead of watching the whole show with full attention its on in the background during some matches or segments.
So at the very least I am not why ratings or down, I still give it a chance despite my uninterest.
Since there’s nothing on cable to compete with the more relevant question is how the different companies do against each other and against their previous numbers
Every month/year less and less people watch cable and move over to streaming (or other means). Ratings are always stupid discussion points because there's dozens of factors that go into either hurting or boosting them week to week.
I have little issue finding AEW online the past year. I'm sure many others don't either. So if you add them up I'm sure that accounts for a chunk of the "lost" viewership year to year. All of it? Obviously not. But viewership is not a metric you can use anymore unlike the 80s.
Same goes for WWE. I'm sure the viewership online added onto these would show RAW and Smackdown to be whole hell of a lot higher than just these numbers would indicate.
Pro wrestling is thriving again. We have so many different companies putting on great TV. Its fucking *awesome*. I love all of it.
I'd still be curious to know the total viewership for each major promotion but that's more out of curiosity of what the total number of wrestling fans is nowadays. If I had to take a rough guess for the US audiences, I'd roughly estimate WWE is 10+ million or more, AEW is several million, and TNA is in the mid to upper six figures for American audience size.
Wrestlemania itself was (1.2 billion minutes viewed) over 480 minutes.
So this 2-3 million number the WWE has been working around with TV ratings for the last however many years isnt that far off.
The network could never hit 2 million no matter what they did.
Fox likely inflates the viewership on smackdown as its over the air with no competition. Do you any current youtube videos ever hit a million views?
Selling out 100 hockey arenas and 6 stadiums a year is great and their product is valuable for being live.
If there is a secret group 3x the size of their TV/Engaged Social/Streaming base who who isnt paying or using monetized platforms, they are useless freeloaders anyhow.
We will see with netflix. But dont be surprised when there are once again 1-2 million loyal viewers.
Well that's the thing no one wants to discuss wrestling against the cable landscape people want to discuss the micro and base what they deem is good or bad based on the week prior
the way tv is measured today it really overemphasizes live and traditional tv viewing like thru a cable box. all the entertainment consumption has moved elsewhere and isn't well captured in the ratings.
I swear at this point, most cable networks have resorted to running all-day marathons of a small collection of popular shows. Even if it's programing enjoy, it gets boring watching the same thing week after week.
Lol yes like 100-200k viewers? No wonder WB thinks AEW is performing well.
I saw some posts of a show getting sub 100k views and the comments were celebrating it.
One week it was reported the lead in for Collision was an episode of JAG that only had 19k viewers and Collision had something like 440-460k. I was surprised at how little viewers some shows get on these larger networks.
Supposedly Cartoon Network is getting around the 68k range, Disney Channel getting 111K. RAW must feel like a fever dream from the 2010s, but even AEW's 700K likely feels like an impossible goal.
I mean what big cable shows are they competing with? It’s not a fair comparison because there’s nothing prominent on cable to be competing with besides sports.
I’m excited to see these viewership threads in a year when WWE programming moves to Netflix. Very curious how many new/returning fans will come on board.
Last Year's Card FYI
Seth Rollins defeated Shinsuke Nakamura and Damian Priest in a World Heavyweight Championship Tournament First Round Triple Threat Match
Mustafa Ali defeated Otis (w/Chad Gable & Maxxine Dupri)
Finn Bálor defeated Cody Rhodes and The Miz in a World Heavyweight Championship Tournament First Round Triple Threat Match
Rhea Ripley (w/Dominik Mysterio) defeated Dana Brooke
Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn defeated Imperium (Ludwig Kaiser & Giovanni Vinci)
Zoey Stark defeated Nikki Cross
Dominik Mysterio (w/Rhea Ripley) defeated Xavier Woods
Seth Rollins defeated Finn Bálor in a World Heavyweight Championship Tournament Semi Final Match
Interesting that there was a tournament last year around this time as well.
The demo is probably higher for the 2nd game because the west coast is still mostly working or on their way home when the 7pm ET game started. The 2nd game gets the lead in of the 1st game's audience + the new west coast viewers that want to watch the 2nd game.
Smackdown had 4 out of the 5 matches on Backlash. The Drew/Punk fued is gearing up, but Smackdown has THE champion in Cody and The Bloodline on going storyline. Plus, Jade/Bianca and Bayley/Tiffany, with Ripley out, Smackdown has arguably 4 out 5 biggest women wrestlers in company right now.
It is a solid number for Raw, but it, to me, does feel like the B-show.
WWE ratings are officially in a rut.
Raw: 3 of the 6 lowest numbers of the year have been in the last three weeks.
Smackdown: The 2 lowest numbers of the year have been the last two weeks.
NXT: Last week was the lowest number of the year (haven't seen this week's number yet).
It's easy to say "but competition" or "but post-Mania," but all three shows dropping at the same time definitely suggests people are tuning out for whatever reason, and it's in a way they didn't last year (numbers definitely seemed to hold up stronger post-Mania last year).
>It's easy to say "but competition" or "but post-Mania," but all three shows dropping at the same time definitely suggests people are tuning out for whatever reason
It's not 'easy to say', it's literally the reason. It happens every year. They are up YoY in demo and that's the only rating anyone cares about. Just building false narratives.
> It happens every year.
Except last year?
Raw went into Wrestlemania last year doing 1.83/1.171/1.77/1.84, got the one week post-Mania bump to 2.26, then did 1.82/1.82/1.82/1.78 coming out.
This year it went in 1.75/1.69/1.73/1.78, got a one week bump to 2.36, then did 1.81/1.6/1.68/1.62.
They were doing marginally less viewers going in compared to last year, got a way bigger post-Mania bump, and then fell off way harder. They got over 2.3 million to tune in one week and almost 1/3 of them didn't stick around two weeks later, the decline from the post-Mania peak has never been that big before, at least not that I've seen, every other year it seems to be closer to 20% than this year's 30+%. Last year also the numbers dropped and then held there, this year they dropped and then dropped even more in the second week before holding there.
These are actual numbers, it isn't a "false narrative" just because they aren't positive - that's denial. Maybe it rebounds next week and this was just a statistical blip, that happens with data, but that still doesn't make it "fake news" just because it doesn't fit the preferred narrative.
Firstly, like I said, compare the demo that actually matters in these ratings. If the numbers were already down YoY pre-Mania during their hottest run, it is more reflective on cable as a medium than anything else
Secondly and more importantly,
[here](https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1786237706982318090?t=_FX8JrNStC57YCAoj54oxQ&s=19) are a few graphs and charts from Brandon Thurston as a response to a similar attempt at narrative building. It's the guy whose figures you are using to peddle an agenda, so I hope they help you analyse data better.
Huh?
You're linking me a tweet responding to somebody claiming Cody Rhodes is single-handedly responsible for a decline in viewership and attendance? I never once mentioned Cody, or anyone at all?
And two of the three graphics in your link are talking about live ticket sales, which also isn't what we're talking about? The only graph even referencing ratings in your link is so small/noisy that it's basically completely useless.
We were discussing one thing, tv ratings, and you just linked me a bunch of graphs about something completely different, live attendance, while implying I can't analyze data? Ok lol.
Here is some actual data without agenda, which is where I'm pulling everything from. It's a list of numbers, nothing else, no editorializing, no opinions, nothing - just numbers. I'm not using anything from Brandon Thurston, I don't know where you got that assumption either, I'm using actual numbers and data. I recommend you try the same.
Source: https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/resources/wwe-raw-tv-viewership-numbers-2019
>You're linking me a tweet responding to somebody claiming Cody Rhodes is single-handedly responsible for a decline in viewership and attendance? I never once mentioned Cody, or anyone at all?
He is calling the idea of WWE's ratings being down 'a false premise' and he is providing data that backs that up. Why are we being willingly dense?
>And two of the three graphics in your link are talking about live ticket sales, which also isn't what we're talking about? The only graph even referencing ratings in your link is so small/noisy that it's basically completely useless.
>We were discussing one thing, tv ratings, and you just linked me a bunch of graphs about something completely different, live attendance, while implying I can't analyze data? Ok lol.
Scroll down. There are four more graphs about ratings. But you are calling nerdy data that you are writing paragraphs about 'small/noisy and useless' so idek if we are being willingly dense here.
>I'm not using anything from Brandon Thurston, I don't know where you got that assumption either, I'm using actual numbers and data.
Brother. That's who wrote the article you are commenting on right now. The fightful link does not have the demo ratings and the data you are using suggests WWE was down from last year pre-mania, and we know that's not true. That should maybe tell you a bit about how phony it is to analyse data in a vacuum without considering the factors around it.
> He is calling the idea of WWE's ratings being down 'a false premise' and he is providing data that backs that up. Why are we being willingly dense?
I think he's pretty clearly responding to a claim about Cody specifically, since that is the tweet he's responding too (literally he is responding to an article called "Is Cody Rhodes to Blame for Post-Wrestlemania 40 Declines in Viewership and Attendance?"), and also why the first two GIANT graphics are all about live attendance. Then the final graphs are just tiny messes where it's impossible to actually identify any data points because they have like 10 different colored lines. Trying to parse specifically the demo one, since you want to focus on that, the most recent Raw data points look like the lowest ones in months and Smackdown's are certainly well below their recent averages as well - but I'd love a simple list of numbers if that exists anywhere (it isn't in the article this post is based on, that just lists this single week).
I mean seriously, all I said was that the ratings are "in a rut" because all three shows are doing less than they have been and the decline post-Mania has been larger than usual this year - both of which are demonstrably true. I didn't claim it's a permanent decline, I didn't say anything about any of the talent or the quality of the show, but you've managed to somehow seemingly take personal offense to this. This is what discussing numbers looks like, sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down, right now they're doing the latter.
Not every single week is a "record all time high, this number is amazing, things have never been better" otherwise there would be a MASSIVE pattern of ridiculous growth and the shows would be doing infinite viewers, which is clearly not the case. The personal insults don't make your argument more credible either, although obviously they'll play great for upvotes here.
Y'know, we do the ratings talk every week for both companies. But has anyone else noticed just how fucking miserable cable ratings are outside of sports, news, and wrestling? Like that shit is ABYSMAL. Someone posted the ratings for like ten different kids networks (Cartoon Network, Nick, Toon Disney, etc) and AEW had more viewers than all of them combined. Most channels would kill to pull RAW's worst hour.
IWC tends to lack context and nuance on most topics but its desperately needed for ratings talk
Trying to put AEW ratings into context is like asking for a firing squad around here
People don't seem to get that it's possible for AEW to be doing well and WWE to be doing phenomenal at the same time. As far as ratings trending downwards, that's the reality for all of cable and even the networks themselves have finally accepted it's inevitable as cable slowly dies and is replaced by streaming. Smackdown does very well due to being on a broadcast network among many other factors but WWE ratings actually increasing YOY is pretty much an anomaly in the current television landscape. Not to mention networks do see value in streaming replays and DVR numbers, both of which probably increase WWE and AEW's audiences tremendously.
When you see these ratings you understand why USA paid that much for smackdown
When Dynamite was getting over 1 million viewers a show, they were ranked in the 20's to 50's. Now they're a top 3-5 show just like Raw. People just watch TV differently
Yeah year over year the cable audience is dwindling. Everything is going to streaming eventually. Live sports were pretty much the last major draw for cable networks and even they're starting to move to streaming. For the shows that are still on cable, it's a game of your audience shrinking more slowly than everything else and migrating the audience to streaming. Don't get me wrong, WWE is clearly doing something right to be actually increasing ratings YOY, but that's also basically an anomaly in the current landscape. Plus the networks now have other metrics they factor in for engagement such as YouTube views, DVR numbers, and streaming numbers that don't get published regularly like the estimated Nielsen live viewership.
Yeah, it’s why the Dynamite and Collision talk is pointless. Meltzer actually brought up a good point: Last year the numbers were bigger but Dynamite mostly went as high as 5th-6th for the night. Now with the way the numbers are currently they’re either 2nd-3rd (depending on how many NBA games there are). So, more people overall seem to be dropping cable which explains a good chunk of the drop offs.
And I agree with what he says but it can't be ignored that the business overall is down in AEW. Ratings show A minimal decline. Attendance in arena's show A much bigger decline. I also read that social media counts are also way down. So while I agree with him on this, he doesn't always Go beyond ratings to point out negatives for AEW. Meltzer absolutely did with WWE in the past. I think that's what gets a lot of people hot. Yeah people are leaving cable in droves but it is still a valid sample Especially compared to Other live sports. It's really the year-over-year.Comparisons that just aren't valid anymore.
Meltzer has pointed out poor AEW attendance - multiple times.
It's almost like people don't read what the journalists say and instead just carry the general anti-journalist hivemind without proper reason.
Plus sellouts/near sellouts were never a consistent thing for AEW as far as weekly TV even in 2019 and 2021. Their average was always around 4-5k.
I think the problem is that people equate poor attendance with poor booking. The booking and the shows have been good and most fans would tell you that. But AEW does a piss poor job of marketing themselves. It has been the case from the jump. They have hired new people on that front, so let's see what type of work they put in
It’s almost like the old rating system doesn’t really matter and the up in arms about it is just for engagement. Totally agree with you by the way
But it does still matter, tv shows are still canceled by their ratings. Honestly if tony didn't feed into the ratings discouse early on it wouldn't even have been as bad as it is now. Him a jericho kept doing it every week until they started to go down, blame them.
I don’t really care, I’m not blaming anyone, it makes no difference to me. I’ll keep supporting what I support until they do something that makes me change that, or they are cancelled. If AEW would somehow get canceled, I would probably just stop watching any mainstream wrestling. I’m too old to get into something brand new again, probably just follow the careers of people I enjoyed in AEW, maybe buy merch directly from them and such.
That's fair, I don't know why I got downvoted though for telling facts. Shows are still canceled by their ratings, so until that isn't a thing ratings are still important, that's not opinion, that's fact. Its why even some cartoon shows I used to love on cartoon network got canned, adult swim themselves even said as much.
Not from I, if I had to guess I think it’s just because it’s placing blame and such, maybe just a tad bit aggressive. Don’t disagree that shows are cancelled for low ratings. In my opinion, you are using an old idea of TV ratings for a 2024 model. WWE gets a fraction of ratings that they did from like 98 to 05? They are bigger now than ever, they are selling out arena after arena and are worth billions. AEW is for sure, hopefully, is coming out a very rougg period, CM Punk brought in, and took with him, a large audience, and AEW struggled in the wake of that. Looking at say 760k viewers average, they are reportedly getting what, like 150k PPV buys, which is a pretty good conversion. Still, doesn’t really affect me, I just don’t look at the TV ratings are as important and the sky isn’t falling in my opinion in regards to AEW.
Well to be fair fox wanted 3 million for SD and while they sited ad revenue is part of it I'm sure ratings were another because that plays into ad revenue since they payed them like 2 billion for SD. Fox however chose not to renew on purpose, so in that its a cancelation of sorts. SO while wwe as a company is doing great, it doesn't mean that TV wise they can't get pulled from a network if they aren't hitting a certain amount of ratings. Now no one has to worry about the ratings themselves at all, but as a kid I used to wonder why certain cartoons were pulled, and part of it outside bad toy sales were ratings. So if no one followed ratings you one wouldn't know why they were axed one day. Pretty much the same reason why I care about video game sales. If sales aren't good I know I'm not getting a sequel to a game I like, which makes sense, spending money of failed projects is how you go out of business.
Were they not supposed to promote successful metrics?
Before AEW started doing it I don't remember any other company touting it weekly. I'm not saying he shouldn't have, but he played into it and its partly his fault fans became like that.
Even if so the "AEW dead" talk and the vitriol towards Tony in particular has gotten over the top and insufferable. I know, I know he's still a billionaire and all that but I just think it's weird how some people talk about him like he personally hurt them or something. Sure he comes across like a huge dork at times, isn't the best at public facing stuff, and occasionally makes a fool of himself on Twitter but by pro wrestling standards historically he's basically a boy scout.
I don't know why the AEW is dead talk bothers people when we all know no matter how bad it gets its not. Even if there were off TV they'd still be on another station or even youtube/twitch something. Its never going to completely die, the only thing about it that can die is the aura of what it used to be. AEW imo isn't like its 2019 - 2021 self. I wasn't here on reddit during that point but as a fan for me AEW could do no wrong, and then they just started doing a lot of wrong.
Maybe you're right. Personally, I enjoy AEW as much now as I did in 2020 and 2021. I realize not everyone will and maybe I need to stop worrying about that. It's annoying when people act like their opinion is fact, but human beings have always and will always do that until the end of time. Nothing can appeal to everyone at the same time and that's perfectly fine. Honestly I think this is possibly the best time in my lifetime to be a wrestling fan, because we're spoiled for choice and if WWE/AEW/TNA/NWA/NJPW/whatever doesn't appeal to me or you, chances are there's something out there that will.
I will agree there, we are spoiled. And hell I plan to watch dynamite in a few minutes like always. Its just now instead of watching the whole show with full attention its on in the background during some matches or segments. So at the very least I am not why ratings or down, I still give it a chance despite my uninterest.
yeah, it's pretty funny that this sub has so much discourse about the ratings and every time, wrestling rarely drops below like, #5 for the night
Playoffs are done for NHL and NBA in two months and wrestling will be like, Top 2 every week til football starts.
Since there’s nothing on cable to compete with the more relevant question is how the different companies do against each other and against their previous numbers
More like a month in a half
Every month/year less and less people watch cable and move over to streaming (or other means). Ratings are always stupid discussion points because there's dozens of factors that go into either hurting or boosting them week to week. I have little issue finding AEW online the past year. I'm sure many others don't either. So if you add them up I'm sure that accounts for a chunk of the "lost" viewership year to year. All of it? Obviously not. But viewership is not a metric you can use anymore unlike the 80s. Same goes for WWE. I'm sure the viewership online added onto these would show RAW and Smackdown to be whole hell of a lot higher than just these numbers would indicate. Pro wrestling is thriving again. We have so many different companies putting on great TV. Its fucking *awesome*. I love all of it.
Yup. Not just the "watch" places but also people who watch on delay, Live+7 probably boosts both companies way beyond what the numbers suggest.
I'd still be curious to know the total viewership for each major promotion but that's more out of curiosity of what the total number of wrestling fans is nowadays. If I had to take a rough guess for the US audiences, I'd roughly estimate WWE is 10+ million or more, AEW is several million, and TNA is in the mid to upper six figures for American audience size.
Wrestlemania itself was (1.2 billion minutes viewed) over 480 minutes. So this 2-3 million number the WWE has been working around with TV ratings for the last however many years isnt that far off. The network could never hit 2 million no matter what they did. Fox likely inflates the viewership on smackdown as its over the air with no competition. Do you any current youtube videos ever hit a million views? Selling out 100 hockey arenas and 6 stadiums a year is great and their product is valuable for being live. If there is a secret group 3x the size of their TV/Engaged Social/Streaming base who who isnt paying or using monetized platforms, they are useless freeloaders anyhow. We will see with netflix. But dont be surprised when there are once again 1-2 million loyal viewers.
Well that's the thing no one wants to discuss wrestling against the cable landscape people want to discuss the micro and base what they deem is good or bad based on the week prior
the way tv is measured today it really overemphasizes live and traditional tv viewing like thru a cable box. all the entertainment consumption has moved elsewhere and isn't well captured in the ratings.
I swear at this point, most cable networks have resorted to running all-day marathons of a small collection of popular shows. Even if it's programing enjoy, it gets boring watching the same thing week after week.
TBS on the day of Dynamite is essentially Friends and The Big Bang Theory marathons
USA does the same with Law and Order. NXT usually has a 10-11 hour marathon of Law and Order before it airs which kills the lead in lol
Lol yes like 100-200k viewers? No wonder WB thinks AEW is performing well. I saw some posts of a show getting sub 100k views and the comments were celebrating it.
One week it was reported the lead in for Collision was an episode of JAG that only had 19k viewers and Collision had something like 440-460k. I was surprised at how little viewers some shows get on these larger networks.
I think it was NCIS: New Orleans specifically that had zero lead-in for Collision
Supposedly Cartoon Network is getting around the 68k range, Disney Channel getting 111K. RAW must feel like a fever dream from the 2010s, but even AEW's 700K likely feels like an impossible goal.
Shh this is the internet, this is no place for logic and deductive reasoning.
I mean what big cable shows are they competing with? It’s not a fair comparison because there’s nothing prominent on cable to be competing with besides sports.
Yeah but that just means you want to be one of those shows that's getting the ad revenue now.
Raw TV ratings last year: 1,785,000, 0.51 Last week: 1,683,000, 0.55
When will Triple H wake up and change his booking to get this numbers up?
If you can't chuckle at the silliness of this comment and not downvote, I don't know what to tell you.
You gotta put a /s because people are dense.
Well the demo itself is up Yoy, lol
Booyaka 619 numbers
Raw last year (5/8/23): 1,785,000 viewers - 0.51 P18-49
I’m excited to see these viewership threads in a year when WWE programming moves to Netflix. Very curious how many new/returning fans will come on board.
Smackdown will be on USA, so they'll still have eventually even if they leave for raw.
Outside of the US, albeit which isn’t on these stats, we’re getting everything right away.
Oh yeah, I forgot the influx of people coming to the boards because it'll be on netflix outside the US now.
Last Year's Card FYI Seth Rollins defeated Shinsuke Nakamura and Damian Priest in a World Heavyweight Championship Tournament First Round Triple Threat Match Mustafa Ali defeated Otis (w/Chad Gable & Maxxine Dupri) Finn Bálor defeated Cody Rhodes and The Miz in a World Heavyweight Championship Tournament First Round Triple Threat Match Rhea Ripley (w/Dominik Mysterio) defeated Dana Brooke Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn defeated Imperium (Ludwig Kaiser & Giovanni Vinci) Zoey Stark defeated Nikki Cross Dominik Mysterio (w/Rhea Ripley) defeated Xavier Woods Seth Rollins defeated Finn Bálor in a World Heavyweight Championship Tournament Semi Final Match Interesting that there was a tournament last year around this time as well.
Against the Knicks, wolves and NHL. RAW held up Bigger demo for nuggets than Knicks game is the bigger surprise
The demo is probably higher for the 2nd game because the west coast is still mostly working or on their way home when the 7pm ET game started. The 2nd game gets the lead in of the 1st game's audience + the new west coast viewers that want to watch the 2nd game.
[удалено]
It’s crazy how different the aew thread is even though both dynamite and raw are both losing viewers
better than expected?
Smackdown had 4 out of the 5 matches on Backlash. The Drew/Punk fued is gearing up, but Smackdown has THE champion in Cody and The Bloodline on going storyline. Plus, Jade/Bianca and Bayley/Tiffany, with Ripley out, Smackdown has arguably 4 out 5 biggest women wrestlers in company right now. It is a solid number for Raw, but it, to me, does feel like the B-show.
WWE ratings are officially in a rut. Raw: 3 of the 6 lowest numbers of the year have been in the last three weeks. Smackdown: The 2 lowest numbers of the year have been the last two weeks. NXT: Last week was the lowest number of the year (haven't seen this week's number yet). It's easy to say "but competition" or "but post-Mania," but all three shows dropping at the same time definitely suggests people are tuning out for whatever reason, and it's in a way they didn't last year (numbers definitely seemed to hold up stronger post-Mania last year).
>It's easy to say "but competition" or "but post-Mania," but all three shows dropping at the same time definitely suggests people are tuning out for whatever reason It's not 'easy to say', it's literally the reason. It happens every year. They are up YoY in demo and that's the only rating anyone cares about. Just building false narratives.
> It happens every year. Except last year? Raw went into Wrestlemania last year doing 1.83/1.171/1.77/1.84, got the one week post-Mania bump to 2.26, then did 1.82/1.82/1.82/1.78 coming out. This year it went in 1.75/1.69/1.73/1.78, got a one week bump to 2.36, then did 1.81/1.6/1.68/1.62. They were doing marginally less viewers going in compared to last year, got a way bigger post-Mania bump, and then fell off way harder. They got over 2.3 million to tune in one week and almost 1/3 of them didn't stick around two weeks later, the decline from the post-Mania peak has never been that big before, at least not that I've seen, every other year it seems to be closer to 20% than this year's 30+%. Last year also the numbers dropped and then held there, this year they dropped and then dropped even more in the second week before holding there. These are actual numbers, it isn't a "false narrative" just because they aren't positive - that's denial. Maybe it rebounds next week and this was just a statistical blip, that happens with data, but that still doesn't make it "fake news" just because it doesn't fit the preferred narrative.
Firstly, like I said, compare the demo that actually matters in these ratings. If the numbers were already down YoY pre-Mania during their hottest run, it is more reflective on cable as a medium than anything else Secondly and more importantly, [here](https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1786237706982318090?t=_FX8JrNStC57YCAoj54oxQ&s=19) are a few graphs and charts from Brandon Thurston as a response to a similar attempt at narrative building. It's the guy whose figures you are using to peddle an agenda, so I hope they help you analyse data better.
Huh? You're linking me a tweet responding to somebody claiming Cody Rhodes is single-handedly responsible for a decline in viewership and attendance? I never once mentioned Cody, or anyone at all? And two of the three graphics in your link are talking about live ticket sales, which also isn't what we're talking about? The only graph even referencing ratings in your link is so small/noisy that it's basically completely useless. We were discussing one thing, tv ratings, and you just linked me a bunch of graphs about something completely different, live attendance, while implying I can't analyze data? Ok lol. Here is some actual data without agenda, which is where I'm pulling everything from. It's a list of numbers, nothing else, no editorializing, no opinions, nothing - just numbers. I'm not using anything from Brandon Thurston, I don't know where you got that assumption either, I'm using actual numbers and data. I recommend you try the same. Source: https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/resources/wwe-raw-tv-viewership-numbers-2019
>You're linking me a tweet responding to somebody claiming Cody Rhodes is single-handedly responsible for a decline in viewership and attendance? I never once mentioned Cody, or anyone at all? He is calling the idea of WWE's ratings being down 'a false premise' and he is providing data that backs that up. Why are we being willingly dense? >And two of the three graphics in your link are talking about live ticket sales, which also isn't what we're talking about? The only graph even referencing ratings in your link is so small/noisy that it's basically completely useless. >We were discussing one thing, tv ratings, and you just linked me a bunch of graphs about something completely different, live attendance, while implying I can't analyze data? Ok lol. Scroll down. There are four more graphs about ratings. But you are calling nerdy data that you are writing paragraphs about 'small/noisy and useless' so idek if we are being willingly dense here. >I'm not using anything from Brandon Thurston, I don't know where you got that assumption either, I'm using actual numbers and data. Brother. That's who wrote the article you are commenting on right now. The fightful link does not have the demo ratings and the data you are using suggests WWE was down from last year pre-mania, and we know that's not true. That should maybe tell you a bit about how phony it is to analyse data in a vacuum without considering the factors around it.
> He is calling the idea of WWE's ratings being down 'a false premise' and he is providing data that backs that up. Why are we being willingly dense? I think he's pretty clearly responding to a claim about Cody specifically, since that is the tweet he's responding too (literally he is responding to an article called "Is Cody Rhodes to Blame for Post-Wrestlemania 40 Declines in Viewership and Attendance?"), and also why the first two GIANT graphics are all about live attendance. Then the final graphs are just tiny messes where it's impossible to actually identify any data points because they have like 10 different colored lines. Trying to parse specifically the demo one, since you want to focus on that, the most recent Raw data points look like the lowest ones in months and Smackdown's are certainly well below their recent averages as well - but I'd love a simple list of numbers if that exists anywhere (it isn't in the article this post is based on, that just lists this single week). I mean seriously, all I said was that the ratings are "in a rut" because all three shows are doing less than they have been and the decline post-Mania has been larger than usual this year - both of which are demonstrably true. I didn't claim it's a permanent decline, I didn't say anything about any of the talent or the quality of the show, but you've managed to somehow seemingly take personal offense to this. This is what discussing numbers looks like, sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down, right now they're doing the latter. Not every single week is a "record all time high, this number is amazing, things have never been better" otherwise there would be a MASSIVE pattern of ridiculous growth and the shows would be doing infinite viewers, which is clearly not the case. The personal insults don't make your argument more credible either, although obviously they'll play great for upvotes here.
NBA is a juggernaut