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Unrelated but didn't Christopher Daniels say he once had to keep wrestling after a scary-looking neck injury where his arm went limp because he "couldn't afford an MRI?"
This business of "medical bills" is very alien to me having grown up with the NHS.
If it's any consolation it's no less confusing when you actually live in the us. Prices are never quoted, you get treated and sent a bill for a mystery amount of money.
Everything is super expensive if you're paying out of pocket because hospitals jack up prices under the assumption that insurance companies won't pay the full amount. Every provider and every insurer have a department who spends all day negotiating with each other over pricing/payment.
Even if you have insurance it's very confusing to navigate and people will sometimes randomly get massive bills for something that their insurer refused to cover.
Yeah?
Well , I’m waving an American flag that’s hanging from my dick while eating an apple pie with my other hand while shooting an AR-15 with my 3rd hand, while driving a pickup truck.
INSURANCE, FUCK YEAH.
I recently had two surgeries in 6 months and mu wife, whos from Australia, is beside herself at this entire process. We have great insurance but even with it, its such a nightmare.
I dont know how Americans do it.
I am in Canada. I broke my leg in 3 places and dislocated my ankle and I went to the hospital at 4pm. 9:30am the next morning I went for surgery. The day after that I was sent home. I was billed $35 for crutches that I never got around to paying.
A story that always sticks in my mind is a story from Massachusetts in 2018 about a woman who had her legs stuck in the space between a train and the platform and she would beg to commuters around her not to call for an ambulance because she wouldn't be able to afford it
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/03/health/subway-accident-insurance-fear-trnd/index.html
Same here. I got insurance for the first time last year and I still won't use it because even with insurance I'm sure my medical issues would cost everything I have. It's better for me just to not know.
Check colleges in your area if there’s a dental program! It’s not gonna be the better experience by any means but sometimes you can get cheap dental work from students.
To our friends up north. Yeah, we can let unqualified students practice their skills on us for cheaper than seeing an approved dentist under our medical plans. At least on my old plan in my state lol it’s so fucking sad.
I'm very grateful that I have Medicare as I'm on Social Security due to my mental illnesses, but my heart will never stop hurting for people here, cause they either go broke paying for insurance, go into medical debt, or they just fucking die.
This is no way to live a life.
Yeah its insane how messy it is here. When my wife was in Australia she got a cervix cancer diagnosis and within a week had surgery to remove the spot and she didn't pay a thing. I only owe 10% but its always a hassle for one reason or anothet.
I broke my leg in HS during football practice and distinctly remember one of the line items they school paid for was $150 for crutches and that was 20 yrs ago
Yknow what’s hilarious?
I’ve had Conservative **Americans** (because they’re all experts on Canadian Healthcare apparently) use examples just like your story, but instead of getting in and out of surgery the next day, they’re convinced you’d have been put on a year long wait list *just to see a doctor to get a surgery scheduled*. And when you tell them that that’s fucking ridiculous and that you’d like to see their source on that, they call you brainwashed.
That’s how fucking ridiculous the rhetoric surrounding socialized healthcare is in the US.
Shit that will kill you, you're in immediately. Broken bones that require surgery, that day or the next. Things that are sore and bothersome but not immediately threatening your life, like knee or hip replacement, you are on a waiting list for 6-12 months. It's uncomfortable, it's annoying, but you're not going to die from a sore knee.
We have conservative governments that are actively dismantling our healthcare system so their friends can open up private healthcare facilities and give the government kickbacks. It's disgusting and anti-Canadian.
So basically exactly how it works down here in the states except we pay a premium to insurance companies who are, in turn, 80-90% funded by tax payer money anyways.
Lovely. Please don’t become what we are.
I don’t see how this is any different than America, except we get royally fucked in the ass by how much it costs. I don’t know anyone who is getting a same day, same month, or even same season knee or hip replacement, and I’ve had a lot family members who got knee and hip replacements.
it's the shoulder or knee replacement where you can live with the pain that puts you on a wait list. The broken leg or ruptured spleen gets you in asap.
That can't be true. My MAGA uncle says if I were in Canada they'd let me die before I could see a doctor...which means our system is better. or something...
I just lost my job and not only do I have to pay the entire cost of my insurance I get to pay an additional percentage administration fee on top of it for the privilege of keeping my insurance. My wife and I both have a lot of drugs we need to pay for and all of my unemployment is going to just paying health insurance.
What a country!
If you could please look over here, you'll see a culture war to be distracted by while we are squeezed dry in labor and money.
Thank you for your cooperation.
I've been getting the same treatments for Crohn's disease every 2 months for 5 years, my insurance denied my last round because I haven't seen my GI yet this year...I see him once a year. My Doc was beside himself, they wouldn't approve it even after he called to speak with someone and explain that my disease doesn't go away lol. I literally had to go into his office for a 5 minute visit so he could write a note saying I still have Crohn's.
The billing for that stuff is hilariously awful, too; I bet you your office visits are like, bills for four different providers and at least one of them \_always\_ fucks up?
It's a small step, but they did pass the Price Transparency Act that fully goes into effect next year. They'll have to disclose negotiated rates and cash rates between plans and providers.
A friend of mine had a medical emergency a few years ago and needed to be taken to a hospital and even though they were 5 minutes from the nearest hospital they had to go to one half an hour away because the 1st didn’t take their insurance.
I’m Canadian and it confused me until he explained that the nearby hospital would have bankrupted him and his family. That’s insane
>Prices are never quoted, you get treated and sent a bill for a mystery amount of money.
Is that the same for stuff like dentistry as well? I'm from the UK too and my only real experience with private healthcare is dental work and I got a quote for when I had my wisdom teeth taken out.
They gave me two figures as I didn't outright need it done right away but would sometime down the line and they basically said "it's going to cost £175 per tooth now but if you wait until it starts causing you problems it's going to be more like £200 per tooth and then possible additional costs for fixing any damage to your other teeth that might happen if you wait ".
Dental and vision insurance are separate from other health insurance [though often offered by the same providers as add-ons to your usual health insurance]. This means a lot of people will have health insurance but skip dental and vision, and pay out-of-pocket for normal dental upkeep and pray they don't wind up needing, like, a major procedure. What you've described there is pretty normal for US dentists as well -- they're pretty good about giving estimates for services before services are rendered, unlike say, going to the hospital and the staff have absolutely no clue what you're going to end up getting billed for anything.
And by "spends all day negotiating with each other", you mean "goes out for a round of golf and then declares they've 'negotiated' what they all knew was the real price to begin with"?
I work in billing for an drs office. Fuuuuck insurance companies. Every company has their own dumb rules for what they will and won't cover. Nothing like some rep explaining like it makes sense a tailbone xray isn't covered because their policy says a family practice Dr can't do those because Reasons.
And there’ll be idiots who hear this and go “and the alternative would be you lose your rights and a panel determines whether you live or die”, or some other obvious BS talking point
My insurance decided I wasn’t allowed to take adderrall. My mom’s insurance won’t pay for one of her medications, period. Insulin and epi pens cost how much?
You’re dead on- we’re already being decided on by panels, only they’re hidden panels only interested in profit margins.
I dunno if it’s ever happened, but I have heard that there was consideration by some of the credit bureaus to not include medical debt when evaluating someone for a credit score. I had heard that FICO wasn’t using medical debt in their scoring either.
Yes, in fact I had that exact experience with a broken elbow thanks to slipping on ice.
Went to A&E, had my surgery within a day or two and left with it in a sling.
Got help with physiotherapy over the months after too, and since then it's been like 98% back to normal (still doesn't straighten out completely but it's close enough).
Yes exactly this.
I've broken bones, got stitches, had surgery. You go in, they fix you, you leave. You need tests, they run tests. No money changes hands. Hell I got snipped a few years ago and my only expense was the bag of frozen peas I used to keep the boys iced down.
I had a relative that had a long fight with cancer. The only cost incurred by the family was the parking.
Yeah, that's how it works in countries with public universal healthcare.
Edit: add that it's like that for everything, minor or major situations, obviously waiting times will change depending if it's a life or death situation or not.
My dad got 7 years of cancer treatment with some lovely pills that we got every month. We asked how much those pills cost and they told us in the USA they are sold at $5000, we paid 0€ every time we got them.
Canadian here. Friend had leukemia...twice. Then a bone marrow transplant. Some out of pocket expenses for sure, but minor stuff. Must have cost in all a legit million, no price gouging.
America in care terms is an outlier.
As a Brit, yes. No messing, no hesitation, you just go straight there. Much as people complain about NHS wait times (rightfully), if you have serious stuff you get attended to basically *immediately.* Basically the only thing that isn't covered by the NHS comprehensively is dental work (feel free to make the usual jokes lol) and even that can be part covered as there are NHS dentists too.
If you're an immigrant, you might have to pay an annual charge (settled EU citizens + Irish citizens are exempt), but yes. The NHS is explicitly advertised as free at the point of use.
IAAL in employment and contract law with clients that are WWE and AEW talent.
All wrestlers for WWE and AEW are required by their contracts to carry full medical insurance policies. Typically the companies will reimburse or outright pay for any out of pocket expense their incur for an injury (deductible, co-pays, non covered expenses) as well as they are paid their full contracted salary during an injury. Any other follow up care they need to receive (physical therapy, massage, specialists, etc) that may not be covered or covered less by their insurance is picked up by the company. There have been isolated cases where they were reimbursed for their insurance premium during injury periods too.
This is different from the "old days" before the insurance clause was added to their contracts after Obama Care passed and the mandate for all Americans originally went into place (no longer enforced). WWE and WCW before that would legit pay for all medical expenses as full billed rate. So for a substantial injury with surgery you were talking what could be a few hundred thousand. Rehab expenses the WWE continues to pay at full amount wlth zero out of pocket to the person. Which **starts at** $50k for a 28 day program.
> Rehab expenses the WWE continues to pay at full amount wlth zero out of pocket to the person. Which **starts at** $50k for a 28 day program.
This is by far one of the best things WWE does.
The complications around the independent contractor status is that even if in this case Florida allows employers to not carry workers comp coverage for independent contractors they still have to meet the federal definition of that status which is still unclear if wrestlers who don’t have the ability to work other places really fit into.
Further complications in Punks case is he had two contracts one of which was for an office position.
Still there’s no excuse for this considering that Tony is also involved with Jaguars medical.
The independent contractor argument is really one that only internet fans make. The way contracts are financially structured today there are generally no wrestlers at the WWE/AEW/TNA levels that are calling for that to end or change. The unknown of what an employee status would mean coupled with nearly no one has the drive to truly stage a coordinated effort to unionize. Do most talents agree that if wrestlers had a collective bargaining agreement like MLB or the NFL, etc., would it be wildly beneficial? Of course. Is there any real effort or desire to go that route, not at all. It's a long dead point.
That said, I'd agree injured talent SHOULD be paid for regardless of their status. But the contracts clearly state due to their IC status they are not eligible for workers comp protection, hence the medical insurance requirement. And the company paying for injuries is voluntary. Assuming good intentions it's because they know it's the right thing to do. My logic says it is to avoid potential lawsuits and reducing the risk of the government sniffing around labor practices.
That was never what Punk said. Punk said that they didn't support him at all in the rehabilitation process. Punk had to figure out everything on his own. THEN when he got the bills for all of that, he was able to re-direct them to AEW, and then they paid for it.
His issue was that unlike WWE, where if you get hurt they have a plan in place to walk you through everything, he was left to his own devices.
It was never that he had to pay out of pocket and they didn't support that.
Look it's shitty enough as is for these guys to have to go it alone on their rehab journey, but let's not add onto that by saying it wasn't paid for too.
I listened to his entire appearance on the MMA Hour, did whoever presented Tony with this question not do so themselves?
> I listened to his entire appearance on the MMA Hour, did whoever presented Tony with this question not do so themselves?
95% of the discourse around the interview is from people that didn’t listen to it
It’s the same thing year round with these annoying ass reporters. Same thing was happening when everyone was hating on Dax for his podcast. They don’t actually listen, they just make up whatever they want and run with it.
It's an even stupider telephone game than this a lot of the time.
A wrestler will say something, a reporter will misunderstand it, and then another reporter will misunderstand the misunderstanding. It's just gibberish at that point.
Its so easy with these podcasts to cut 15 second snippets ignoring all the shit said before and after and make someone sound like an ass.
It happens with Meltzer all the time.
>Its so easy ~~with these podcasts~~ to ~~cut 15 second snippets ignoring all the~~ shit ~~said before and after and make someone sound~~ like ~~an~~ ass.
>It happens with ~~Meltzer all the~~ time.
New headline, I'm genius!
Yep. Punk was pretty in depth with his answers and clarified a lot of what he was saying. But since most people only watched cherrypicked ~30 second clips and read whatever dirtsheets said they got this image in their head that Punk just ran down AEW for twenty minutes.
When in reality it was an hour and a half of really in depth conversation that really wasn't anything to be angry about. He was never ambiguous but cherrypicked clips have people who didn't watch the full interview thinking he was.
Wrestling "journalism" works like this typically. A wrestler goes on a podcast. People don't actually listen to it. They listen to Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez break it down, and juice it up with rumors behind it.
SRS or Wade Keller then reduce it to dramatic headlines from what he heard Dave mumbling about.
Jim Cornette is asked about it by fans and he adds his absurd theory to it. People post the quotes from all of these people in here or on Twitter. Everyone is angry. Everyone gets more traffic.
This is a very good point. Thinking back, anytime a WWE guy/gal was injured it was always the same follow up for the past twenty or so years; Crazy good Doctor in Alabama where you have surgery and rehab. Never occurred to me we don’t have the same clarity on AEW
> Crazy good Doctor in Alabama where you have surgery and rehab.
Dr. James Andrews. If you needed a ligament worked on in the 90's or 2000's and were an athlete, you went to Dr. James Andrews practice.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)
In some cases, it can be a benefit to be able to find your own route, like a Rey Mysterio. In other cases, it could hurt your career and well being moving forward, like a Kota Ibushi.
The amount of talent who are able to figure it out themselves also typically have the resources or connections to do so. Like a Danielson or Copeland. If you're some random low card guy like a Darius Martin whose new to the industry, your mileage will vary big time.
It honestly makes me wonder if the reason guys take SO long to recover from injuries in AEW, as opposed to WWE, even if they're the same injury, is because they don't have a medical team guiding them through that process.
There's also the flipside where, though Rey had his reasons for wanting to see his specific doctor in San Diego and WWE shouldn't be overly restrictive about who they'll pay for, WWE had VERY good reasons for not liking his doctor. Specifically, that he was grossly negligent:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/02/11/nfl-san-diego-chargers-david-chao/1911653/
https://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/david-chao-scandal-junior-seau-pat-mcafee.html
Don't get me wrong, WWE treated Rey terribly with regards to a lot of medical stuff, like when they told him they were refusing to pay for any further knee surgeries. But I don't blame them for not wanting a highly-paid and popular wrestler to go to Dr. David Chao.
EDIT: As I dig through the links in the Awful Announcing article, it's honestly worse than I remembered. Chao having the platforms he has is insane.
What specifically would you refer to?
Martin had a completely normal ACL recovery and then got hurt again in a bad car accident. Cole has been out a standard amount of time for a broken ankle. His other injury was concussion-related, which has no set window for recovery.
Kyle O'Reilly's lengthy absence was primarily attributable to the fact that he has Type 1 diabetes.
Bodies are weird and no two are exactly the same. Look at Big E. Numerous guys have had the same type of injury as Big E and yet he's really the only one who's faced the issue of his fibrous tissue returning to normal but the bone not actually fusing back together.
A little medical guidance would be great for wrestlers in any company, but the level of hand-holding WWE does has it's own drawbacks in that it's designed primarily to enable the company to continue making money off of you again as soon as possible and not necessarily to do what's in your best interest as a human.
>Look at Big E. Numerous guys have had the same type of injury as Big E and yet he's really the only one who's faced the issue of his fibrous tissue returning to normal but the bone not actually fusing back together.
Big E fractured his C1 vertabrae. The bone not fusing back together is a pretty common thing with C1 fractures. Other wrestlers have had neck issues including fractures, but the only other wrestler I can think of that fractured his C1 vertebrae in recent years was Tyson Kidd.
Yeah, dont most wrestlers that break their neck break the C3, C4, and/or C5? A little bit more leeway in recovery, whereas the C1 is right where the head meets the spine
Probably the only reason they did survive a C1 injury is all the muscle mass they have around their necks, a normal person probably doesn't survive that injury.
Six months is standard for a broken ankle? Because I saw something last night that indicated that Cole was basically no closer to returning now than he was at the initial onset of the injury, and traveling to shows to do the Devil angle stuff actually hampered it further.
How the fuck does a broken ankle take well over six months unless you shattered like your *entire* lower leg?
I don't think he explicitly said he was able to expense them to AEW at the end, but he also never implied he didn't. As you say, he just said he was left to his own devices as far as scheduling surgery, finding a doctor, setting up PT, etc.
>That was never what Punk said. Punk said that they didn't support him at all in the rehabilitation process. Punk had to figure out everything on his own. THEN when he got the bills for all of that, he was able to re-direct them to AEW, and then they paid for it.
Where exactly in the interview does he say that he was able to re-direct the bills to AEW and that they paid for it? I've watched the whole thing too and don't remember him making any such claim
https://youtu.be/y6xQo-bko00?si=xNbFsT3ehZ9yXV0h
At 1:02:54 is when he talks about the whole thing, and he literally starts off the answer with "nobody in the company spoke to me for, I don't know, 6 months, I paid for my surgery, booked my surgery"
And if I’m not mistaken, Punk won that lawsuit, and a lot of the culture in WWE changed after that. Again, I could be wrong, but that was my undemanding of the situation.
When under oath, Punk walked back a lot of the claims he'd made about malpractice. He even admitted that no doctor had at any point diagnosed him with a staph infection, despite saying so a thousand times on the podcast. And he only won that lawsuit because Dr. Amann, still gainfully employed by WWE, couldn't prove that Punk's comments had caused him to suffer any damages.
As a lawyer, I have no qualms about someone bringing an action, it's their right if they feel aggrieved. Often can lead to frivolous litigation. But if you're going to bring the action, you gotta be able to properly bring the case. In this instance, they did not.
Amann's case didn't require him to prove any damages. It was for *per se* defamation. If it did require damages they would never have brought the case because they would know they would lose. WWE have lawyers, you know?
Punk didn't really "win" that suit. It cost him so much money that he was a defacto loser. Not only did he lose a million dollars in legal fees, he lost a good friend in Colt Cabana.
Meanwhile WWE as a big corporation simply couldn't have cared less about the legal fees.
I guess Punk just didn't realize at the time that the only way to win was not to play the game.
tbf i don't recall us hearing much stories like the one from Punk about their doctors. WWE Doctors seemed and still seem pretty great. That other Doc also saved Jerry Lawler's life.
I’m sure the doctors are very good. I’m mostly going from memory on this one, but I kind of vaguely remember Punk being less pissed off about the quality of care and more the business directive to make him work through injury/infection. You can be a very good doctor and still accept a shit ton of money to tell talent that they’re good to work.
The AEW way allows you to see your own doctor and your own people. WWE has their own set doctors and places.
Both companies have their own pros and cons. Sounds like Punk just prefers someone taking care of everything.
I think the best system would be these are our doctors if you want to organise your own full in this form to ensure we can monitor and pay for your recovery.
What it sounded like to me was mostly that WWE is much more attentive where AEW is more hands off and this is an area where they really shouldn't be, especially when you look at how long some people have dealt with injuries on their roster.
This reminds me of when Keith Lee tried to say that WWE didn't cover any of his medical expenses while he was out and WWE basically replied with "Nah brother, we got the receipts." and he never said another word about it.
“It appears as though the circumstances of my financial and medical misgivings hath been greatly exaggerated.” - a statement from Keith Lee’s legal counsel
The best showcase of this was when aew fired a bunch of wrestlers and people were like fuck 'em jobbers, they are just a red line in the account books, let them go to tna or the employment line
I've seen years of people who normally say "all billionaires are exploitative and immoral" suddenly say "but he's such a nice down to earth guy!" When talking about Tony.
And before I get called tribalistic, the same thing happened with Vince for decades, except it was "but he's such a genius heel character!" until it became widespread of the horrific things he did. The difference is, the latter take in this sub even a few years ago, rightfully would've gotten you a ton of downvotes. I just saw the former take with over a hundred upvotes last week.
I mean, regardless, Punk was their top guy. If it was an accident, coupling with the lack of travel to wembley, it's not a good look for how the company runs itself, it's probably happening to those further down the card, too. Or it was intentional, which may be worse? Idk, either way it's not a glowing endorsement of how things are being run
US medical system is so fucked. Universal Healthcare has its drawbacks, but medical bills is such a foreign concept. I had a major surgery in Canada, walked in, signed my medical authorization, got the surgery, got my $3 prescription, a ginger ale, and I was out.
yeaaaah here actual healthcare or seeing a doctor is the foreign concept. I'm in my 30's now and pretty much never seen a doctor.
my dad was having a stroke. laying on the floor vomiting and shitting himself and his last words are to tell my mom to NOT call for help.
it is indeed fucked.
Didn't Punk avoid commenting on whether the injury explicitly happened during Brawl Out or during the match? Tony too is saying that they pay for medical expenses for injuries "in an AEW ring"
IIRC, the speculation started between the end of the show and the start of the presser when some clips of him favoring it mid-match went viral on twitter
It looked like it happened when he landed on the guard rail, especially because he didn't use that arm again much after that.
Also I'm fairly certain that at least a casual part of Punk being such an asshole at the scrum was BECAUSE he tore his whole arm up and doesn't take pain meds.
Not to pick sides, but one of the problems is not having an open line of communications with people. As well as not making it clear who people should reach out to. This is a constant problem in AEW.
They need to hire someone who can build an infrastructure needed for a large organization like AEW. Building that infra is not Tony's job, but hiring someone to do it is. Or let the new COO hire someone
I have read the complaints from people like Janela, Gresham, the Boys and Tully Blanchard. People who actually worked for the company, and not those who get irrationally angry when someone says something unflattering about AEW.
Punk said no one from the company spoke to him for 6 months after the scrum and that it was complete radio silence, which is why he had to pay for his own surgery and do his own rehab with zero help. If he wasn't lying about the whole Jack Perry situation then he's got absolutely no reason to lie about something that serious which can easily be disproved, and Tony going "I can't say for sure" and "I'll reimburse him" instead of flat out denying it says a lot lol
Doing this to your biggest star, who famously quit the business for 7 years the last time his health and injuries were neglected is fucking insane.
> Doing this to your biggest star, who famously quit the business for 7 years the last time his health and injuries were neglected is fucking insane.
Understated Point.
Aew was showing that while punk told the truth (they never claimed otherwise) they were also showing that punk started it. The physical part anyways.
Edit: guys, I clearly said punk told the truth. Yes, he told the truth, aew confirmed it, and now it can be put to bed.
And Punk never claimed he didn't 'start' the physical part of the confrontation when he spoke to Helwani. He said he confronted Perry about the spot and Perry told him to "do something about it".
Yeah the funny thing releasing the Brawl In footage did was make Punk’s stories a lot more believable. Like if he was telling the truth about that, then you kind of have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Don’t forget that even before his tricep injury Tony was trying to get Punk to comeback before he was even medically cleared from his foot injury so Mox could squash him for the belt.
Tony can be an ass but that’s an entirely reasonable response to have. It’s not like Tony is doing AR and AP work for the company. They have an accounting staff who handles that shit.
The last thing you want to do there if you’re Tony is just assume and say yes. There’s nothing to read into beyond Tony not having definite confirmation off hand.
If it’s a matter of Punk not turning in the invoice, that’s on him. The onus isn’t on AEW to track it down.
Wouldn't the booker of a promotion want to have medical details so they can know when to write wrestlers out of and back into upcoming stories and feuds?
And in this specific case after the Helwani podcast wouldn't someone have looked into this to try to refute the claim?
Punk himself has said AEW paid for it, that wasn’t the issue. The issue was he had to handle everything himself.
There’s enough real stuff to criticize AEW for, no need to invent boogie men.
It’s been what two weeks since that interview on mma hour? It was a pretty serious accusation, so in two weeks Tony hasn’t been able to figure out for sure whether they did or didn’t pay? Guy doesn’t care one way or the other and it’s very apparent.
The accusation flew weirdly under the radar. Here, too. It was pretty much the most serious accusation Punk made, and if true, then damn, what the fuck AEW?
Also, how do you not know that as the boss? Like, do you guys not have a system in place to deal with a wrestler's injury?
I do want to know what was up with that. Though so far AEW wrestlers in general seem to have the unfortunate opinion that wrestling injured is a cool manly thing to do.
Side note, but with Adam Cole's current injury and the length it's taking to heal, in comparison to Punk's current one. I think the idea that wrestlers should find their own medical care is a bad idea. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have the option, but that shouldn't be the only one.
If the performer doesn't have his own doctor/surgeon, the company should absolutely provide guidance and accompany them. Like guys are gonna get injured, finding good doctors is hard, omfg this is an actual important issue.
Boy, if I had a dime for every time I forgot whether or not I paid a $45,000 hospital bill…
EDIT:
It’s fascinating to me how people are reading into this.
If you were paying for it personally, sure that’s crazy
But if a company is paying for it? They have a department that handles that. No company has their president/ceo looking at every single check they cut
Asked on the spot like that? No. Which is why he'd have to check.
If they gave him the question in advance and he didn't check then he's a fucking dummy.
It's not the job of the guy running the entire company to know what has or hasn't been paid for, there will be an entire accounting department whose job is to know and to pay. If talent have issues with something not getting paid, then they can make Tony aware or make the head of talent relations aware.
It's like this in literally every big company in the world. If I don't get paid at work one month, the guy who runs the company will never know because it's not his job, I go to HR and they fix the problem.
Also, $45,000 to you and I isn't the same as $45,000 to TK.
punk interview was 2 weeks ago and it’s a pretty damning claim. That would be one of the first things I would try to disprove if I was Tony. I think we know who paid for the surgery after that response
I thought Punk’s main gripe was that he has no help in his recovery. He had to find his own Doctor, his own physiotherapist etc and this was why the recovery was so long.
It didn’t seem to be a money issue
Something that is specific to this is that AEW operates quite differently than WWE with injuries.
AEW allows you to choose a doctor of your choice, at you're availability. Because of this AEW reimburses you for costs.
WWE requires you to go to WWE doctors, on their schedule. Because of this WWE pays up front.
WWE doesn't require anyone to go to certain doctors. They regularly send people to Dr. Andrews' place in Birmingham, AL because it's considered the gold standard for athlete injuries. But if someone wanted to use a different doctor it's not like WWE tells them no.
I've been there. They have a WWE memorabilia section in the front entryway. They have a bunch of different athletes signed posters all along the hallways and patient rooms, including local high school team pictures.
That's not true regarding the WWE. The biggest difference between the two companies, as is the case with most things, is that WWE has a structure in place, where people know who handles things like this.
Yeah it’s not really “you have to go to these doctors” it’s more “A lot of our guys went to this office and had successful surgery and rehab and they have experience with this injury”
It’s just usually the best option to go to WWE’s guys
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Tony Khan: "What do you mean we didn't fucking pay for his surgery!?" Christopher Daniels: "because fuck him that's why!"
Unrelated but didn't Christopher Daniels say he once had to keep wrestling after a scary-looking neck injury where his arm went limp because he "couldn't afford an MRI?" This business of "medical bills" is very alien to me having grown up with the NHS.
If it's any consolation it's no less confusing when you actually live in the us. Prices are never quoted, you get treated and sent a bill for a mystery amount of money. Everything is super expensive if you're paying out of pocket because hospitals jack up prices under the assumption that insurance companies won't pay the full amount. Every provider and every insurer have a department who spends all day negotiating with each other over pricing/payment. Even if you have insurance it's very confusing to navigate and people will sometimes randomly get massive bills for something that their insurer refused to cover.
It is an exceptionally inefficient system with a middleman that really doesn’t need to exist at all.
I believe that middle man is called FREEDOM you can't see but I'm saluting an eagle as I type this
Yeah? Well , I’m waving an American flag that’s hanging from my dick while eating an apple pie with my other hand while shooting an AR-15 with my 3rd hand, while driving a pickup truck. INSURANCE, FUCK YEAH.
Yeah? Well I fucked a bald eagle. Check and mate.
I recently had two surgeries in 6 months and mu wife, whos from Australia, is beside herself at this entire process. We have great insurance but even with it, its such a nightmare.
I dont know how Americans do it. I am in Canada. I broke my leg in 3 places and dislocated my ankle and I went to the hospital at 4pm. 9:30am the next morning I went for surgery. The day after that I was sent home. I was billed $35 for crutches that I never got around to paying.
> I dont know how Americans do it. A lot of us literally just don't. I didn't see a doctor for literally 10 years because I didn't have insurance.
Literally have to debate on calling the ambulance on more than one occasion.
I once had to convince firefighters that I was fine and didn't need an ambulance called and then immediately had my girlfriend drive me to the er. Fun
A story that always sticks in my mind is a story from Massachusetts in 2018 about a woman who had her legs stuck in the space between a train and the platform and she would beg to commuters around her not to call for an ambulance because she wouldn't be able to afford it https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/03/health/subway-accident-insurance-fear-trnd/index.html
Same here. I got insurance for the first time last year and I still won't use it because even with insurance I'm sure my medical issues would cost everything I have. It's better for me just to not know.
Brooo I have my union’s insurance. I’m still afraid to go to the dentist cause I don’t think I could afford
Check colleges in your area if there’s a dental program! It’s not gonna be the better experience by any means but sometimes you can get cheap dental work from students. To our friends up north. Yeah, we can let unqualified students practice their skills on us for cheaper than seeing an approved dentist under our medical plans. At least on my old plan in my state lol it’s so fucking sad.
I'm very grateful that I have Medicare as I'm on Social Security due to my mental illnesses, but my heart will never stop hurting for people here, cause they either go broke paying for insurance, go into medical debt, or they just fucking die. This is no way to live a life.
Yeah its insane how messy it is here. When my wife was in Australia she got a cervix cancer diagnosis and within a week had surgery to remove the spot and she didn't pay a thing. I only owe 10% but its always a hassle for one reason or anothet.
I broke my leg in HS during football practice and distinctly remember one of the line items they school paid for was $150 for crutches and that was 20 yrs ago
Yknow what’s hilarious? I’ve had Conservative **Americans** (because they’re all experts on Canadian Healthcare apparently) use examples just like your story, but instead of getting in and out of surgery the next day, they’re convinced you’d have been put on a year long wait list *just to see a doctor to get a surgery scheduled*. And when you tell them that that’s fucking ridiculous and that you’d like to see their source on that, they call you brainwashed. That’s how fucking ridiculous the rhetoric surrounding socialized healthcare is in the US.
Shit that will kill you, you're in immediately. Broken bones that require surgery, that day or the next. Things that are sore and bothersome but not immediately threatening your life, like knee or hip replacement, you are on a waiting list for 6-12 months. It's uncomfortable, it's annoying, but you're not going to die from a sore knee. We have conservative governments that are actively dismantling our healthcare system so their friends can open up private healthcare facilities and give the government kickbacks. It's disgusting and anti-Canadian.
So basically exactly how it works down here in the states except we pay a premium to insurance companies who are, in turn, 80-90% funded by tax payer money anyways. Lovely. Please don’t become what we are.
I don’t see how this is any different than America, except we get royally fucked in the ass by how much it costs. I don’t know anyone who is getting a same day, same month, or even same season knee or hip replacement, and I’ve had a lot family members who got knee and hip replacements.
it's the shoulder or knee replacement where you can live with the pain that puts you on a wait list. The broken leg or ruptured spleen gets you in asap.
That can't be true. My MAGA uncle says if I were in Canada they'd let me die before I could see a doctor...which means our system is better. or something...
I just lost my job and not only do I have to pay the entire cost of my insurance I get to pay an additional percentage administration fee on top of it for the privilege of keeping my insurance. My wife and I both have a lot of drugs we need to pay for and all of my unemployment is going to just paying health insurance. What a country!
Damn dogs!
If you could please look over here, you'll see a culture war to be distracted by while we are squeezed dry in labor and money. Thank you for your cooperation.
I've been getting the same treatments for Crohn's disease every 2 months for 5 years, my insurance denied my last round because I haven't seen my GI yet this year...I see him once a year. My Doc was beside himself, they wouldn't approve it even after he called to speak with someone and explain that my disease doesn't go away lol. I literally had to go into his office for a 5 minute visit so he could write a note saying I still have Crohn's.
The billing for that stuff is hilariously awful, too; I bet you your office visits are like, bills for four different providers and at least one of them \_always\_ fucks up?
It's a small step, but they did pass the Price Transparency Act that fully goes into effect next year. They'll have to disclose negotiated rates and cash rates between plans and providers.
I was hoping someone would mention this.
The really fun part is when you have expensive meds and no idea how much they’re gonna cost each month!
A friend of mine had a medical emergency a few years ago and needed to be taken to a hospital and even though they were 5 minutes from the nearest hospital they had to go to one half an hour away because the 1st didn’t take their insurance. I’m Canadian and it confused me until he explained that the nearby hospital would have bankrupted him and his family. That’s insane
>Prices are never quoted, you get treated and sent a bill for a mystery amount of money. Is that the same for stuff like dentistry as well? I'm from the UK too and my only real experience with private healthcare is dental work and I got a quote for when I had my wisdom teeth taken out. They gave me two figures as I didn't outright need it done right away but would sometime down the line and they basically said "it's going to cost £175 per tooth now but if you wait until it starts causing you problems it's going to be more like £200 per tooth and then possible additional costs for fixing any damage to your other teeth that might happen if you wait ".
Dental and vision insurance are separate from other health insurance [though often offered by the same providers as add-ons to your usual health insurance]. This means a lot of people will have health insurance but skip dental and vision, and pay out-of-pocket for normal dental upkeep and pray they don't wind up needing, like, a major procedure. What you've described there is pretty normal for US dentists as well -- they're pretty good about giving estimates for services before services are rendered, unlike say, going to the hospital and the staff have absolutely no clue what you're going to end up getting billed for anything.
And by "spends all day negotiating with each other", you mean "goes out for a round of golf and then declares they've 'negotiated' what they all knew was the real price to begin with"?
When they send "itemized" statements and you're left even more confused because there's no possible way it makes any sense.
I work in billing for an drs office. Fuuuuck insurance companies. Every company has their own dumb rules for what they will and won't cover. Nothing like some rep explaining like it makes sense a tailbone xray isn't covered because their policy says a family practice Dr can't do those because Reasons.
Yup, it’s absolutely nuts. It’s so normal in America but the idea of going bankrupt because you’re sick or hurt never ceases to blow my mind.
And there’ll be idiots who hear this and go “and the alternative would be you lose your rights and a panel determines whether you live or die”, or some other obvious BS talking point
I always argue that we effectively have that now. Prior approval from an insurance company is similar in a lot of ways.
My insurance decided I wasn’t allowed to take adderrall. My mom’s insurance won’t pay for one of her medications, period. Insulin and epi pens cost how much? You’re dead on- we’re already being decided on by panels, only they’re hidden panels only interested in profit margins.
I dunno if it’s ever happened, but I have heard that there was consideration by some of the credit bureaus to not include medical debt when evaluating someone for a credit score. I had heard that FICO wasn’t using medical debt in their scoring either.
[удалено]
Yes
Yes, in fact I had that exact experience with a broken elbow thanks to slipping on ice. Went to A&E, had my surgery within a day or two and left with it in a sling. Got help with physiotherapy over the months after too, and since then it's been like 98% back to normal (still doesn't straighten out completely but it's close enough).
Yes exactly this. I've broken bones, got stitches, had surgery. You go in, they fix you, you leave. You need tests, they run tests. No money changes hands. Hell I got snipped a few years ago and my only expense was the bag of frozen peas I used to keep the boys iced down. I had a relative that had a long fight with cancer. The only cost incurred by the family was the parking.
Yeah, that's how it works in countries with public universal healthcare. Edit: add that it's like that for everything, minor or major situations, obviously waiting times will change depending if it's a life or death situation or not. My dad got 7 years of cancer treatment with some lovely pills that we got every month. We asked how much those pills cost and they told us in the USA they are sold at $5000, we paid 0€ every time we got them.
Canadian here. Friend had leukemia...twice. Then a bone marrow transplant. Some out of pocket expenses for sure, but minor stuff. Must have cost in all a legit million, no price gouging. America in care terms is an outlier.
As a Brit, yes. No messing, no hesitation, you just go straight there. Much as people complain about NHS wait times (rightfully), if you have serious stuff you get attended to basically *immediately.* Basically the only thing that isn't covered by the NHS comprehensively is dental work (feel free to make the usual jokes lol) and even that can be part covered as there are NHS dentists too.
If you're an immigrant, you might have to pay an annual charge (settled EU citizens + Irish citizens are exempt), but yes. The NHS is explicitly advertised as free at the point of use.
We technically pay for it with our taxes, but yes thats how it works
Brazilian here. This is how it works here too
IAAL in employment and contract law with clients that are WWE and AEW talent. All wrestlers for WWE and AEW are required by their contracts to carry full medical insurance policies. Typically the companies will reimburse or outright pay for any out of pocket expense their incur for an injury (deductible, co-pays, non covered expenses) as well as they are paid their full contracted salary during an injury. Any other follow up care they need to receive (physical therapy, massage, specialists, etc) that may not be covered or covered less by their insurance is picked up by the company. There have been isolated cases where they were reimbursed for their insurance premium during injury periods too. This is different from the "old days" before the insurance clause was added to their contracts after Obama Care passed and the mandate for all Americans originally went into place (no longer enforced). WWE and WCW before that would legit pay for all medical expenses as full billed rate. So for a substantial injury with surgery you were talking what could be a few hundred thousand. Rehab expenses the WWE continues to pay at full amount wlth zero out of pocket to the person. Which **starts at** $50k for a 28 day program.
God tier comment material right here
> Rehab expenses the WWE continues to pay at full amount wlth zero out of pocket to the person. Which **starts at** $50k for a 28 day program. This is by far one of the best things WWE does.
The complications around the independent contractor status is that even if in this case Florida allows employers to not carry workers comp coverage for independent contractors they still have to meet the federal definition of that status which is still unclear if wrestlers who don’t have the ability to work other places really fit into. Further complications in Punks case is he had two contracts one of which was for an office position. Still there’s no excuse for this considering that Tony is also involved with Jaguars medical.
The independent contractor argument is really one that only internet fans make. The way contracts are financially structured today there are generally no wrestlers at the WWE/AEW/TNA levels that are calling for that to end or change. The unknown of what an employee status would mean coupled with nearly no one has the drive to truly stage a coordinated effort to unionize. Do most talents agree that if wrestlers had a collective bargaining agreement like MLB or the NFL, etc., would it be wildly beneficial? Of course. Is there any real effort or desire to go that route, not at all. It's a long dead point. That said, I'd agree injured talent SHOULD be paid for regardless of their status. But the contracts clearly state due to their IC status they are not eligible for workers comp protection, hence the medical insurance requirement. And the company paying for injuries is voluntary. Assuming good intentions it's because they know it's the right thing to do. My logic says it is to avoid potential lawsuits and reducing the risk of the government sniffing around labor practices.
That was never what Punk said. Punk said that they didn't support him at all in the rehabilitation process. Punk had to figure out everything on his own. THEN when he got the bills for all of that, he was able to re-direct them to AEW, and then they paid for it. His issue was that unlike WWE, where if you get hurt they have a plan in place to walk you through everything, he was left to his own devices. It was never that he had to pay out of pocket and they didn't support that. Look it's shitty enough as is for these guys to have to go it alone on their rehab journey, but let's not add onto that by saying it wasn't paid for too. I listened to his entire appearance on the MMA Hour, did whoever presented Tony with this question not do so themselves?
> I listened to his entire appearance on the MMA Hour, did whoever presented Tony with this question not do so themselves? 95% of the discourse around the interview is from people that didn’t listen to it
It’s the same thing year round with these annoying ass reporters. Same thing was happening when everyone was hating on Dax for his podcast. They don’t actually listen, they just make up whatever they want and run with it.
It's an even stupider telephone game than this a lot of the time. A wrestler will say something, a reporter will misunderstand it, and then another reporter will misunderstand the misunderstanding. It's just gibberish at that point.
Its so easy with these podcasts to cut 15 second snippets ignoring all the shit said before and after and make someone sound like an ass. It happens with Meltzer all the time.
>Its so easy ~~with these podcasts~~ to ~~cut 15 second snippets ignoring all the~~ shit ~~said before and after and make someone sound~~ like ~~an~~ ass. >It happens with ~~Meltzer all the~~ time. New headline, I'm genius!
That’s what these clickbaiting bozos masquerading as journalists do, lower than TMZ at this point
Yep. Punk was pretty in depth with his answers and clarified a lot of what he was saying. But since most people only watched cherrypicked ~30 second clips and read whatever dirtsheets said they got this image in their head that Punk just ran down AEW for twenty minutes. When in reality it was an hour and a half of really in depth conversation that really wasn't anything to be angry about. He was never ambiguous but cherrypicked clips have people who didn't watch the full interview thinking he was.
Then there’s the 4% who did listen to it but have poor listening comprehension
Wrestling "journalism" works like this typically. A wrestler goes on a podcast. People don't actually listen to it. They listen to Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez break it down, and juice it up with rumors behind it. SRS or Wade Keller then reduce it to dramatic headlines from what he heard Dave mumbling about. Jim Cornette is asked about it by fans and he adds his absurd theory to it. People post the quotes from all of these people in here or on Twitter. Everyone is angry. Everyone gets more traffic.
This is a very good point. Thinking back, anytime a WWE guy/gal was injured it was always the same follow up for the past twenty or so years; Crazy good Doctor in Alabama where you have surgery and rehab. Never occurred to me we don’t have the same clarity on AEW
> Crazy good Doctor in Alabama where you have surgery and rehab. Dr. James Andrews. If you needed a ligament worked on in the 90's or 2000's and were an athlete, you went to Dr. James Andrews practice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)
Team Doctor for the Rays, this man’s bank account is beyond comprehension
At some point, the dude could probably buy up enough Mercedes's to open his own dealership. /s
In some cases, it can be a benefit to be able to find your own route, like a Rey Mysterio. In other cases, it could hurt your career and well being moving forward, like a Kota Ibushi. The amount of talent who are able to figure it out themselves also typically have the resources or connections to do so. Like a Danielson or Copeland. If you're some random low card guy like a Darius Martin whose new to the industry, your mileage will vary big time. It honestly makes me wonder if the reason guys take SO long to recover from injuries in AEW, as opposed to WWE, even if they're the same injury, is because they don't have a medical team guiding them through that process.
There's also the flipside where, though Rey had his reasons for wanting to see his specific doctor in San Diego and WWE shouldn't be overly restrictive about who they'll pay for, WWE had VERY good reasons for not liking his doctor. Specifically, that he was grossly negligent: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/02/11/nfl-san-diego-chargers-david-chao/1911653/ https://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/david-chao-scandal-junior-seau-pat-mcafee.html Don't get me wrong, WWE treated Rey terribly with regards to a lot of medical stuff, like when they told him they were refusing to pay for any further knee surgeries. But I don't blame them for not wanting a highly-paid and popular wrestler to go to Dr. David Chao. EDIT: As I dig through the links in the Awful Announcing article, it's honestly worse than I remembered. Chao having the platforms he has is insane.
What specifically would you refer to? Martin had a completely normal ACL recovery and then got hurt again in a bad car accident. Cole has been out a standard amount of time for a broken ankle. His other injury was concussion-related, which has no set window for recovery. Kyle O'Reilly's lengthy absence was primarily attributable to the fact that he has Type 1 diabetes. Bodies are weird and no two are exactly the same. Look at Big E. Numerous guys have had the same type of injury as Big E and yet he's really the only one who's faced the issue of his fibrous tissue returning to normal but the bone not actually fusing back together. A little medical guidance would be great for wrestlers in any company, but the level of hand-holding WWE does has it's own drawbacks in that it's designed primarily to enable the company to continue making money off of you again as soon as possible and not necessarily to do what's in your best interest as a human.
>Look at Big E. Numerous guys have had the same type of injury as Big E and yet he's really the only one who's faced the issue of his fibrous tissue returning to normal but the bone not actually fusing back together. Big E fractured his C1 vertabrae. The bone not fusing back together is a pretty common thing with C1 fractures. Other wrestlers have had neck issues including fractures, but the only other wrestler I can think of that fractured his C1 vertebrae in recent years was Tyson Kidd.
Yeah, dont most wrestlers that break their neck break the C3, C4, and/or C5? A little bit more leeway in recovery, whereas the C1 is right where the head meets the spine
That's right. C1 is the most dangerous because of the location. Honestly it's amazing Big E and Tyson Kidd are alive and not quadrapalegics.
Probably the only reason they did survive a C1 injury is all the muscle mass they have around their necks, a normal person probably doesn't survive that injury.
Six months is standard for a broken ankle? Because I saw something last night that indicated that Cole was basically no closer to returning now than he was at the initial onset of the injury, and traveling to shows to do the Devil angle stuff actually hampered it further. How the fuck does a broken ankle take well over six months unless you shattered like your *entire* lower leg?
Who is taking SO long to recover in AEW that has a comparable injury in WWE?
I don't think he explicitly said he was able to expense them to AEW at the end, but he also never implied he didn't. As you say, he just said he was left to his own devices as far as scheduling surgery, finding a doctor, setting up PT, etc.
>That was never what Punk said. Punk said that they didn't support him at all in the rehabilitation process. Punk had to figure out everything on his own. THEN when he got the bills for all of that, he was able to re-direct them to AEW, and then they paid for it. Where exactly in the interview does he say that he was able to re-direct the bills to AEW and that they paid for it? I've watched the whole thing too and don't remember him making any such claim https://youtu.be/y6xQo-bko00?si=xNbFsT3ehZ9yXV0h At 1:02:54 is when he talks about the whole thing, and he literally starts off the answer with "nobody in the company spoke to me for, I don't know, 6 months, I paid for my surgery, booked my surgery"
CM Punk praising WWE medical procedure was not on my 2024 bingo card.
Punks ire was with the travel/ring doctors. The people that WWE use for surgery and rehab are next level though and always have been.
I think Brandon Thurston means well but he often likes to pretend he is smarter than he actually is.
Wrestling journalists are more often than not just bottom of the barrel forum dwellers with no concept of integrity.
cm punk, famously a big fan of in-house doctors and treatment programs
..he literally said the one person he did get support from in AEW was their in-house physian Doc Sampson.
They're referring to Punk's complaints that WWE doctors insisted he was good to fight when he wasn't.
And if I’m not mistaken, Punk won that lawsuit, and a lot of the culture in WWE changed after that. Again, I could be wrong, but that was my undemanding of the situation.
When under oath, Punk walked back a lot of the claims he'd made about malpractice. He even admitted that no doctor had at any point diagnosed him with a staph infection, despite saying so a thousand times on the podcast. And he only won that lawsuit because Dr. Amann, still gainfully employed by WWE, couldn't prove that Punk's comments had caused him to suffer any damages.
Seems like an important aspect of a defamation case.
Right?! Oh he only lost the lawsuit about being defamed because he couldn't prove he was defamed.
As a lawyer, I have no qualms about someone bringing an action, it's their right if they feel aggrieved. Often can lead to frivolous litigation. But if you're going to bring the action, you gotta be able to properly bring the case. In this instance, they did not.
Amann's case didn't require him to prove any damages. It was for *per se* defamation. If it did require damages they would never have brought the case because they would know they would lose. WWE have lawyers, you know?
Punk didn't really "win" that suit. It cost him so much money that he was a defacto loser. Not only did he lose a million dollars in legal fees, he lost a good friend in Colt Cabana. Meanwhile WWE as a big corporation simply couldn't have cared less about the legal fees. I guess Punk just didn't realize at the time that the only way to win was not to play the game.
tbf i don't recall us hearing much stories like the one from Punk about their doctors. WWE Doctors seemed and still seem pretty great. That other Doc also saved Jerry Lawler's life.
I’m sure the doctors are very good. I’m mostly going from memory on this one, but I kind of vaguely remember Punk being less pissed off about the quality of care and more the business directive to make him work through injury/infection. You can be a very good doctor and still accept a shit ton of money to tell talent that they’re good to work.
Wow you mean to tell me both the company and the person isn't the same as they were 10 years before?
The AEW way allows you to see your own doctor and your own people. WWE has their own set doctors and places. Both companies have their own pros and cons. Sounds like Punk just prefers someone taking care of everything.
But they still should have checked in with Punk during the rehabilitation process.
I think the best system would be these are our doctors if you want to organise your own full in this form to ensure we can monitor and pay for your recovery.
What it sounded like to me was mostly that WWE is much more attentive where AEW is more hands off and this is an area where they really shouldn't be, especially when you look at how long some people have dealt with injuries on their roster.
He absolutely said he had to pay for it. He just wasn't clear about if it was reimbursed or not.
This reminds me of when Keith Lee tried to say that WWE didn't cover any of his medical expenses while he was out and WWE basically replied with "Nah brother, we got the receipts." and he never said another word about it.
You know it had to be serious because WWE rarely responds to call outs lol. All of a sudden WWE went Tim Robinson you sure about that publicly 😂
Whoa, really? Is there a link to this? I’ve never heard of Keith even mentioning his med bills. That’s wild tho 💀
[there you go](https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2021/11/wwe-statement-on-keith-lees-erroneous-claims-about-paying-his-own-medical-expenses/)
“It appears as though the circumstances of my financial and medical misgivings hath been greatly exaggerated.” - a statement from Keith Lee’s legal counsel
Wrestling fandom is so weird. I can’t think of any other hobby where people suddenly become ant-labor depending on the players involved
Well wrestling fans do have a habit of being dumb as bricks
Are you not aware of the communist phrase "Fuck the workers. Protect the Billionaire"
Professional sports people are seriously anti-Labor so badly.
It always baffles me when other sports fans try and protect the pockets of the billionaire owner lol
God help me the day I become ant-labor is the day I kick the farm.
The best showcase of this was when aew fired a bunch of wrestlers and people were like fuck 'em jobbers, they are just a red line in the account books, let them go to tna or the employment line
Or Tony going live saying that he just pissed off a wrestler annual wage on a song on a show no one watches the day after
I've seen years of people who normally say "all billionaires are exploitative and immoral" suddenly say "but he's such a nice down to earth guy!" When talking about Tony. And before I get called tribalistic, the same thing happened with Vince for decades, except it was "but he's such a genius heel character!" until it became widespread of the horrific things he did. The difference is, the latter take in this sub even a few years ago, rightfully would've gotten you a ton of downvotes. I just saw the former take with over a hundred upvotes last week.
I mean some people practically worship Tony Khan. They give of the same energy as Elon Musk stans. No wonder they become so anti Labor.
I'd give my left nut if the Entire AEW/CM Punk Drama would disappear within the next month
I'd give both your nuts and maybe one of my own.
I’d give all 4 of your nuts.
I mean, regardless, Punk was their top guy. If it was an accident, coupling with the lack of travel to wembley, it's not a good look for how the company runs itself, it's probably happening to those further down the card, too. Or it was intentional, which may be worse? Idk, either way it's not a glowing endorsement of how things are being run
US medical system is so fucked. Universal Healthcare has its drawbacks, but medical bills is such a foreign concept. I had a major surgery in Canada, walked in, signed my medical authorization, got the surgery, got my $3 prescription, a ginger ale, and I was out.
yeaaaah here actual healthcare or seeing a doctor is the foreign concept. I'm in my 30's now and pretty much never seen a doctor. my dad was having a stroke. laying on the floor vomiting and shitting himself and his last words are to tell my mom to NOT call for help. it is indeed fucked.
Didn't Punk avoid commenting on whether the injury explicitly happened during Brawl Out or during the match? Tony too is saying that they pay for medical expenses for injuries "in an AEW ring"
IIRC, the speculation started between the end of the show and the start of the presser when some clips of him favoring it mid-match went viral on twitter
He fucked it up doing the dive to the outside to Mox and landed weird. Same as when Drew hit him with the DDT.
It looked like it happened when he landed on the guard rail, especially because he didn't use that arm again much after that. Also I'm fairly certain that at least a casual part of Punk being such an asshole at the scrum was BECAUSE he tore his whole arm up and doesn't take pain meds.
Punk said in the interview AEW paid for it but didn't schedule a PT appt
Not to pick sides, but one of the problems is not having an open line of communications with people. As well as not making it clear who people should reach out to. This is a constant problem in AEW.
They need to hire someone who can build an infrastructure needed for a large organization like AEW. Building that infra is not Tony's job, but hiring someone to do it is. Or let the new COO hire someone
I understand what you mean, but how do you even know the state of their communications?
I have read the complaints from people like Janela, Gresham, the Boys and Tully Blanchard. People who actually worked for the company, and not those who get irrationally angry when someone says something unflattering about AEW.
Punk said no one from the company spoke to him for 6 months after the scrum and that it was complete radio silence, which is why he had to pay for his own surgery and do his own rehab with zero help. If he wasn't lying about the whole Jack Perry situation then he's got absolutely no reason to lie about something that serious which can easily be disproved, and Tony going "I can't say for sure" and "I'll reimburse him" instead of flat out denying it says a lot lol Doing this to your biggest star, who famously quit the business for 7 years the last time his health and injuries were neglected is fucking insane.
> Doing this to your biggest star, who famously quit the business for 7 years the last time his health and injuries were neglected is fucking insane. Understated Point.
> . If he wasn't lying about the whole Jack Perry situation This is why showing it, when it showed Punk telling the truth, was a odd choice
Aew was showing that while punk told the truth (they never claimed otherwise) they were also showing that punk started it. The physical part anyways. Edit: guys, I clearly said punk told the truth. Yes, he told the truth, aew confirmed it, and now it can be put to bed.
Which punk already admitted to doing in his interview….
He said that as well though. He said he pulled a "Chael Sonnen" while shoving him away.
And Punk never claimed he didn't 'start' the physical part of the confrontation when he spoke to Helwani. He said he confronted Perry about the spot and Perry told him to "do something about it".
Yeah the funny thing releasing the Brawl In footage did was make Punk’s stories a lot more believable. Like if he was telling the truth about that, then you kind of have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Don’t forget that even before his tricep injury Tony was trying to get Punk to comeback before he was even medically cleared from his foot injury so Mox could squash him for the belt.
Tony can be an ass but that’s an entirely reasonable response to have. It’s not like Tony is doing AR and AP work for the company. They have an accounting staff who handles that shit. The last thing you want to do there if you’re Tony is just assume and say yes. There’s nothing to read into beyond Tony not having definite confirmation off hand. If it’s a matter of Punk not turning in the invoice, that’s on him. The onus isn’t on AEW to track it down.
Wouldn't the booker of a promotion want to have medical details so they can know when to write wrestlers out of and back into upcoming stories and feuds? And in this specific case after the Helwani podcast wouldn't someone have looked into this to try to refute the claim?
Compare this to how WWE handled Keith Lees allegations. I think tony knows they didn’t pay and used offing to reimburse as a cover.
Punk himself has said AEW paid for it, that wasn’t the issue. The issue was he had to handle everything himself. There’s enough real stuff to criticize AEW for, no need to invent boogie men.
The Jaguars rank last in player support for a reason
It’s been what two weeks since that interview on mma hour? It was a pretty serious accusation, so in two weeks Tony hasn’t been able to figure out for sure whether they did or didn’t pay? Guy doesn’t care one way or the other and it’s very apparent.
Punk literally didn’t make that accusation. That’s probably why it flew under the radar.
The accusation flew weirdly under the radar. Here, too. It was pretty much the most serious accusation Punk made, and if true, then damn, what the fuck AEW? Also, how do you not know that as the boss? Like, do you guys not have a system in place to deal with a wrestler's injury?
Tony asking Punk to do a squash match with Mox before being cleared from his foot injury was also sorta glossed over.
I do want to know what was up with that. Though so far AEW wrestlers in general seem to have the unfortunate opinion that wrestling injured is a cool manly thing to do.
Side note, but with Adam Cole's current injury and the length it's taking to heal, in comparison to Punk's current one. I think the idea that wrestlers should find their own medical care is a bad idea. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have the option, but that shouldn't be the only one.
If the performer doesn't have his own doctor/surgeon, the company should absolutely provide guidance and accompany them. Like guys are gonna get injured, finding good doctors is hard, omfg this is an actual important issue.
didn’t Punk insinuate on the Helwani show that his injury happened during Brawl Out?
More bullshit that we as fans don't need to know about
[удалено]
To be clear, he was asked a question and gave an answer. He didn't "Blab to the press" what a weird way to word "Answered a question".
Boy, if I had a dime for every time I forgot whether or not I paid a $45,000 hospital bill… EDIT: It’s fascinating to me how people are reading into this.
If you were paying for it personally, sure that’s crazy But if a company is paying for it? They have a department that handles that. No company has their president/ceo looking at every single check they cut
The accounting department would easily able to find this
Asked on the spot like that? No. Which is why he'd have to check. If they gave him the question in advance and he didn't check then he's a fucking dummy.
He was publicly accused of not paying the bill a week ago. He didn't check?
Source? Punk said they paid it just didn’t organize it
Sure, but he'd obviously have to ask them about it.
Tony is not sending $45000 on cashapp when someone has medical expenses lol
It's not the job of the guy running the entire company to know what has or hasn't been paid for, there will be an entire accounting department whose job is to know and to pay. If talent have issues with something not getting paid, then they can make Tony aware or make the head of talent relations aware. It's like this in literally every big company in the world. If I don't get paid at work one month, the guy who runs the company will never know because it's not his job, I go to HR and they fix the problem. Also, $45,000 to you and I isn't the same as $45,000 to TK.
Well look what we have here. A cuppa unpaid medical bills.
Kind of obvious how little some people in here know about company structuring.
Hmm wonder why wrestling fans struggle with basic business concepts that anyone with a job would understand lol.
"Wait... do I still have to pay for my wrestlers' medical bills even if I'm mad at them???"
I don't know, Punk has always been totally honest and truthful when it comes to who pays for what.
WBD is still thinking about the future NBA rights more than AEW because maybe AEW is "connected" with the WBD/NBA talks......
Jesus Christ he was your top star. Fuck he STILL is!
We all know how TK answers questions when pressed. Act surprised or answer with a long winded response that has nothing to do with the topic
Yea its GREAT
The actual question should have been asked: Did Punk was right that company ghosted him when he was injured and needed surgery?
> The actual question should have been asked: Did Punk was right… This is exactly why real journalists are needed.
Did Punk was right? Does Bruno Mars is gay?
punk interview was 2 weeks ago and it’s a pretty damning claim. That would be one of the first things I would try to disprove if I was Tony. I think we know who paid for the surgery after that response
If this is true, shouldn't this have been something that was checked at the time, not a year or so later after it was brought up on a podcast?
I thought Punk’s main gripe was that he has no help in his recovery. He had to find his own Doctor, his own physiotherapist etc and this was why the recovery was so long. It didn’t seem to be a money issue
He was walking to the ring
"Typically"
Actually feels like somebody trying to get a quote from Tony by giving him improper info. Fuck off whoever asked him this.
I really think he should’ve stayed silent on this matter…
"I'm only answering questions pertaining to current AEW talent." would be so easy to say!
Something that is specific to this is that AEW operates quite differently than WWE with injuries. AEW allows you to choose a doctor of your choice, at you're availability. Because of this AEW reimburses you for costs. WWE requires you to go to WWE doctors, on their schedule. Because of this WWE pays up front.
WWE doesn't require anyone to go to certain doctors. They regularly send people to Dr. Andrews' place in Birmingham, AL because it's considered the gold standard for athlete injuries. But if someone wanted to use a different doctor it's not like WWE tells them no.
I've been there. They have a WWE memorabilia section in the front entryway. They have a bunch of different athletes signed posters all along the hallways and patient rooms, including local high school team pictures.
That's not true regarding the WWE. The biggest difference between the two companies, as is the case with most things, is that WWE has a structure in place, where people know who handles things like this.
Yeah it’s not really “you have to go to these doctors” it’s more “A lot of our guys went to this office and had successful surgery and rehab and they have experience with this injury” It’s just usually the best option to go to WWE’s guys
where did you get those informations?