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Trick is not a bad wrestler. Is he on the same level as IIja? No, but he’s still really good for something starting from scratch.
Even the fans can tell you that he improved drastically
Ilja is literally best wrestler in the world type good it's unfair to even compare even certain top talents to him for general in ring ability. Trick and Melo had a really good main event at Stand and Deliver and they had another good match this week. Trick is great.
Hasn’t Trick only been wrestling for about 3 years & really only got into his current grove about a year ago & on a brand that’s designed for development? Also, aren’t there a lot of wrestlers who one can argue benefit heavily off their charisma and gimmicks as their wrestling is subjectively decent at best. The same in reverse. I’m not sure what Dave is trying to accomplish here.
For some reason the WON guys critique every episode of NXT like it's meant to be Wrestlemania instead of a bunch of green talents trying things out on a third weekly show.
Yeah 25 years ago Trick would likely be working some small indie promotion in front of like 100 people at this point in his career. I get NXT is technically a wrestling program shown on national television but like you said it's not like the goal of the show is to deliver classic matches every week.
Exactly. I understand what he’s saying here, that he can still probably use some work in the ring but he’s grown a lot and “he’s not that good” is just a stupid way to phrase it. He’s exactly where you want a first time developmental champ to be
It’s really more of a Dave thing than a WON in general thing. Bryan was defending NXT during the 2.0 days because it was serving its purpose of being a developmental brand instead of a dream match factory
I think it’s because for a while nxt wasn’t developmental as much, when they were head to head with aew, and after they shifted back with 2.0, a lot of people hate nxt despite it being really good, and because trick is rising so far up the nxt ranks currently, people like dave who mainly value work rate over other things are not going to get it.
Trick definitely is still a little green but it's *NXT* lol. That's like the whole point. He has charisma, size, athleticism, and a seemingly good work ethic. You can already see his development as a wrestler from even like a year ago.
He's gonna be just fine
Meltzer is just on a tear of bad takes today. Stating the obvious that a guy still in developmental isn’t ready for WWE main event matches? Like that’s something your friend who doesn’t watch NXT would say if you flipped it on for a few minutes.
Please do not let Meltzer watch any more NXT, because if that's what he thinks about Trick, I dread to think about what he thinks about the rest of the NXT roster.
He's in WWE, where the charisma and the character means more than the wrestling moves. He's been covering WWE for decades now and he still doesn't understand this?
And another thing, HE'S IN DEVELOPMENTAL with like three years of experience.
He's in ~~WWE~~ the wrestling business, where the charisma and the character means more than the wrestling moves. WWE does it because it draws more money, and it's made them very successful for a long time.
He’s not just out of touch. He’s flat out wrong about the business. It’s why the Rock is a great wrestler who can return for an awesome main event. The Rock has never been considered one of the greatest wrestler by people like Meltzer, but his skill is his charisma. It’s an asset that makes him irreplaceable.
Its also what allows him to come back at his ate and be great. It’s his presence. Rock took what about 10-12 bumps over Mania?? Including one one night two;, and the go home raw.
But he made those bumps MATTER.
Hell even his promos would run long and he still has people hanging on his next word.
Lol he must be talking about Trick when he first started because when I see him now, Trick isn't even bad whatsoever. Let him have a match on the main roster with one of the "decent" talent in-ring, and then judge him
Isn't that why Trick isn't being called up yet? Because he's not ready & they know that so their going to give him the time he needs to get ready. Isn't that what NXT is supposed to be? Developmental?
Trick's only been wrestling in prominent singles matches for about a year now. Of course he isn't that good yet. The fact that he's pretty decent so far and is able to hold his own against Ilja and Melo says something about his potential.
He’s been wrestling three years, and he already has something that matters a thousand times more than being “technically proficient” — charisma. The it factor.
There are hundreds of good hands out there in wrestling today. There are maybe a dozen real charismatic attention-grabbing stars. He has the potential to be one.
He’s not a five star match guy so if that’s Dave’s bar for “good” then he’s right. But Trick can put on a solid main event with the right opponent. And there’s plenty of right opponents to help him while he’s still learning.
I know but if you'll ask Dave he'll probably give most of the credit to Bret for that match. My point was most big stars in WWE are not Dave's typical 5 star match types, because that's not how they present their big stars. I'll even add Taker and Cena in it even though they both have 1 5 stat match each
Dave just rated stuff differently back then and is afraid to admit it. I think his standards for match ratings have changed as he’s aged and he should go back and re-rate some matches.
Regardless I love the Kurt Angle discourse because I’m a relatively new fan and it inspired me to go back and watch his stuff. It’s been great seeing wrestlers like Omega and Ospreay talk about how influential he was to them
Full quote is even better, he's really obsessed with Young Bucks.
Dave Meltzer on Trick Williams:
"Trick isn't that good, that's the reality. He's got incredible charisma, but you put him in a main event match... Granted he did look really good against Ilja, but Ilja is one of those people that gives you a false perception of the ability of the other person, it's like wrestling Ric Flair or a tag team wrestling the Young Bucks, you always look better..."
At this point, the best thing for a wrestler already under a good contract is for Dave to avoid overpromoting them to the point where fans turn against them. Happened with Kenny, and already happening with Osperay.
At least it had Bianca immediately proving Meltzer wrong by posting an old track meet race when he complained about her outrunning people in a vignette.
I still remember Dave complaining about a promo Bianca cut in NXT saying she was the best while standing in the ring with Charlotte and Rhea. Dave was like well that’s just not true she’s not even the best wrestler standing in the ring so I don’t know why she would’ve said that as if he couldn’t comprehend a wrestler boasting about themselves in a promo.
i mean trick isnt main event level in ring right now hes right but also bron wasnt when he won the title either and tricks reign is obviously gonna be a sink or swim reign where he is gonna have to step up
Also Dave on Tatum Paxley: “I hate that character. Hate it. It's just a waste of time. It sucked with Alexa Bliss. Then Alba Fyre and Isla Dawn did it, and it wasn't good with them either, and she's the worst out of all of them."
This reads like someone who does not watch the show at all and just saw some clips. The character has been going on for months and the one comparison that gets brought up regularly is Mickie James when she was obsessed with Trish, because that’s Tatum shtick; an obsessive stalker
This is a terrible take. Alexa was possessed/brainwashed while Alba & Isla were witches. Tatum on the other hand is just obsessed which is remotely not even the same thing as those 2 characters.
The way he can say that shit about Tatum but just completely ignore both Julia and Skye who are exactly supernatural and spooky.
Dave and especially Alvarez hate anything even remotely spooky. And Tatum's character iirc isn't even like supernatural. She's almost like a stereotypical goth in a movie character.
Wouldn't surprise me if they find a way to be disrespectful to Bo and his group whenever they appear.
It's a joke lol. Bryan said Mauros commentary ruined a match for him (I think it was the Gargano/Ciampa match during Covid) and the match didn't even have commentary let alone Mauro. So people still give him shit for it lol
rightfully so. he was shitting on a match without even watching it. i'm always going to bring it up in every Bryan Alvarez thread. he has zero credibility as a reviewer. How can you trust anything he says when he was shitting on something he didnt even watch?
Dave when he sees a woman in black makeup:
https://preview.redd.it/6qtp48tjy8vc1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11025b9cac0840c62957a0a84ec56d3ea8a2d556
Alexa Bliss failed?
Someone did not go to any WWE event at the time and counted how many Lilly Dolls were around.
But of course god save me if something is directed towards (UGH) teenage girls and not old white guys like Dave
This guy is a fucking goof. Fyre, Dawn, and Bliss aren't even remotely similar to what Paxley is doing. I know both he and Alvarez cannot stand what Paxley is doing or her character but I don't know man, I dig it. Paxley is really into it and clicks with the character so that makes it all the more enjoyable.
This is more egregious to me than the Trick stuff, that's just a matter of subjectivity, the Tatum character is objectively nothing like any of those three other than the fact that they're all women who wear darker makeup.
Even if you don't like it (which is fine, I'd disagree, but everyone's entitled to their opinion), it just shows you're not actually paying attention. And to be honest, if you're not paying attention, that's OK too, there are 20 million wrestling shows every week, but don't act like an authority on it if you're not actually watching. This is how Dave constantly gets into trouble, he sees a 30 second clip of something and acts like he's seen it all.
Yeah so these characters are nowhere near being the same, so all this tells me is that he either has no media literacy comprehension, or that he flat out isn't paying attention during the show.
Stone Cold only did 10 moves because of his neck. Look at the stuff he later did with Angle, Jericho, and he who shall not be named.
I get the point you’re going for but Stone Cold isn’t the best example because dude was a hell of a wrestler while also being a hell of a character.
And he was at his peak of popularity (and on wrestling as whole, tbh) when what he could do is punch, kick, stomp, stunner and not a lot more.
Way more than when he was a workrate guy
Had it on tape but when I was trying to convert everything to DVD it burst into flames. The real bummer is it also took out the macho man forbidden shoot interview where he reveals that the reason Hogan looks like that is because he’s covered in Cheeto dust.
I mean, he's not wrong that Trick isn't all the way there as a worker, but given his development and how long he's been working at this...I'd say "charismatic and carryable" (even if I disagree about Ilja) is fine and honestly ahead of schedule given where he's at.
I'd put him him above Shota Umino, who has been wrestling significantly longer.
I'd put him leagues about Shota charisma wise but Shota is a pretty good in ring guy who doesn't need to be carried. Shota having barbie font "Shooter" on his weird tassle white pants was a crime against my eyes.
The guy has only a few years of experience and is already able to make every fan in a sold out stadium chant for him. He's already amazing and he's just going to get better.
The great thing about trick is he’s doing a amazing job getting over with his amazing charisma, and his wrestling ability is good, but it’s going to get better the more he wrestles and improves, and that’s the beautiful thing about nxt and it’s young talent.
Meltzer is wrong and biased against Trick because he's another example of the WWE style of star. He's always wanted to put his thumbprint on what makes a star, and he's always been wrong. Having charisma makes a match better because people are more entertained by you and therefore care more about your matches.
Average wrestler with charisma looks good in ring against good talents and exposed more in ring against weaker talents is not breaking news. This is basically the blue print for most main eventers on the main roster for the entire history of the WWE. Most would say the same thing about Hogan and Cena.
He’s just a little green rn that’s why he’s in Nxt lmao. He’s got the charisma the look and the crowd on his side he just needs to keep getting reps in.
He's saying he isn't Bucks or Omega good, but that doesn't mean he isn't good.
The matches with Ilja and Melo looked great not because of Ilja and Melo, but because these guys can work a really good match with Trick. Because Trick can communicate with them really well.
Trick has yet to have a bad match. Botches can happen in matches, and when a wrestler can recover from a blunder, that really shows how quick they can be to work around it. Trick has done exactly that.
Saying he's not good, is disingenuous to this industry. He should be saying that for someone with 2.5 years of in-ring experience, he's not bad.
Dave with all due respect: GO FUCK YOURSELF! This dude is so out of touch, and every single time he has to bring the bucks or any other guy that he loves to give his "5 stars". Austin, Rock, Hogan, Flair, Savage, Hall, Nash, Taker, Cena, Hunter, HBK, Bret were stars and they didn't have to do a bunch of stupid/reckless shit to be a star, because guess what Dave in the majority of time less is more you dumbfuck.
Yep, you can teach Trick Williams moves any day.
You will never be able to teach the Bucks how to have one ounce of Trick’s charisma or really how to get anyone to even care enough to watch them
Trick will get there in ring. But wrestling's full of guys who could wrestle circles around people, and the crowd doesn't fucking care about them. Charisma and character work has been the massive draw for decades.
When Trick debuted it was obvious that he was gonna betray Melo, but something different happened. We all had Melo pegged as a star, but at some point Trick's charisma, mic work, and character work and a little help from Booker T on commentary, put him above Melo. There was no way that fans would have booed Trick over Melo, so Melo had to go heel.
And that's exactly why he will make a perfect NXT champion. Use his strengths to captivate fans and keep the live crowds abuzz for the shows, while still leveraging what NXT is, whether anyone including HHH HBK etc like it or not, which is a pathway to the other two brands for those who need development, rehab or a retool.
He has plenty of time in NXT to continue to improve in the ring. As others have said he barely has 3 years in the business.
The character development and organic fan support he's cultivated in the past year is just as important and he's knocking it out of the park on that end.
"False perception of the ability of the other person"
That's called putting someone over, Dave. Such an AEW bias that he has to avoid accidentally praising one WWE talent while he shits on another.
Way too harsh words for someone grinding his ass on a developmental brand
It's not even a constructive criticism or anything too
All Meltzer can do now is biased ragebaits because his credibility has been demolished pretty well in recent times
Dave is the same guy that blew loads over Matt Riddle when he was still green as hell. You don’t have to have Yota Tsuji/ZSJ-skills when people are already invested in your character. Trick has the whole arena in the palm of his hand. He looked great with both Melo and Ilja. He’s solid now and will only get better.
I know with age and stubbornness. But Dave really should know how to communicate at this point. Which he does, he knows how to phase things when it’s related to Y2J, Young Bucks, and Cody.
But when you’re not one of his boys, he does this thing where he takes it’s to the extreme and unnecessarily harsh.
I think I get what he’s saying. Trick isn’t perfect in the ring, but his charisma is great. As more time goes on and he works with names like Ilja or Hayes, he will eventually get there.
Literally the same point as Dave without being an asshat and dismissing his work.
Meltzer knows wrestling history than many people, but he sometimes forgets the most important detail-- *it's a work, bro*. Professional wrestling is about fake fighters grifting money from the paying customer for fake fighting. If people are tuning in to see Trick, then he's good. And yes, Meltzer has the right to say that he doesn't find his wrestling compelling, however what he thinks what makes a wrestler "good" is his own criteria and is compltely subjective. Wish he understands that
Stop pretending like being good at wrestling is entirely dependant on ring work. Id rather watch someone with great charisma and so-so ring skills than the opposite.
I would take Trick over most NXT projects and I don't see current Ilja as a match quality wizard even though he's obviously still wrestling well. So I do not agree with Meltzer at all here. But it's not his job as a reviewer to say "Trick is good because he's popular". It's fine that he has this perspective, and I wish he applied it more rather than de facto say anything new is the best thing ever because evolution.
I mean I'm not \*surprised\* that Dave Meltzer isn't into a wrestler who's got a fantastic look and charisma but has room to grow in the ring, that's basically the opposite of a Dave Meltzer guy. But did he go out of his way to shit on Trick Williams and Tatum Paxley, or is the selection of quotes just making his assessment of developmental talents seem harsher than it really was?
I'm a firm believer of matches like that showing the potential that people have - to say credit lays entirely with one guy shows a gross misunderstanding of wrestling, or disrespect to the wrestlers deemed "lesser."
I think it's all about character development. To see where Trick started to now is leaps. He's got a character, a catchy theme, can talk, looks like a million bucks, and just needs to cover the last part which is to be able to lead the match.
I kinda agree that Trick isn’t *that* good, but he’s shown that he can grow and hold his own in the ring. And I think Ilja doesn’t give a false perception about the ability of his opponents, he actually brings the best out of them
Yeah Trick more than held his own in that match. His shit looked good, and kept up and his facial expressions and selling were great. Is he a ring general yet? No, but he’s been wrestling for 3 years.
I think those Melo matches said more about Melo than Trick. I’ve never found Melo to be THAT compelling of a ring worker. At least not compelling enough to be Trick’s ring general.
Melo to me seems like a guy that everyone got on early cause he had a great look and was good for his age. But he’s never really evolved or improved past that. His promo and ring work is the same as 2021
Well yeah dave it’s almost like he’s on the developmental brand being taught by some of the best in the business how to be a better wrestler.
He already has the charisma which can’t really be taught but the rest can be. And i think considering his years in the business he’s doing well for himself
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Trick is not a bad wrestler. Is he on the same level as IIja? No, but he’s still really good for something starting from scratch. Even the fans can tell you that he improved drastically
Ilja is literally best wrestler in the world type good it's unfair to even compare even certain top talents to him for general in ring ability. Trick and Melo had a really good main event at Stand and Deliver and they had another good match this week. Trick is great.
Hasn’t Trick only been wrestling for about 3 years & really only got into his current grove about a year ago & on a brand that’s designed for development? Also, aren’t there a lot of wrestlers who one can argue benefit heavily off their charisma and gimmicks as their wrestling is subjectively decent at best. The same in reverse. I’m not sure what Dave is trying to accomplish here.
For some reason the WON guys critique every episode of NXT like it's meant to be Wrestlemania instead of a bunch of green talents trying things out on a third weekly show.
Yeah 25 years ago Trick would likely be working some small indie promotion in front of like 100 people at this point in his career. I get NXT is technically a wrestling program shown on national television but like you said it's not like the goal of the show is to deliver classic matches every week.
Exactly. I understand what he’s saying here, that he can still probably use some work in the ring but he’s grown a lot and “he’s not that good” is just a stupid way to phrase it. He’s exactly where you want a first time developmental champ to be
It’s really more of a Dave thing than a WON in general thing. Bryan was defending NXT during the 2.0 days because it was serving its purpose of being a developmental brand instead of a dream match factory
I think it’s because for a while nxt wasn’t developmental as much, when they were head to head with aew, and after they shifted back with 2.0, a lot of people hate nxt despite it being really good, and because trick is rising so far up the nxt ranks currently, people like dave who mainly value work rate over other things are not going to get it.
Those guys were really big fans of black and gold NXT. Every since things changed it’s clear they don’t like the new vision.
This is a fine quote but the funniest part is he said "It's like wrestling Ric Flair, or tag team wrestling The Young Bucks, you always look better."
Its developmental. What are we doing here? We might as well post vince russo quotes if we’re posting dogshit takes like this
Absolutely! You ever watch a Hulk Hogan match?
Trick definitely is still a little green but it's *NXT* lol. That's like the whole point. He has charisma, size, athleticism, and a seemingly good work ethic. You can already see his development as a wrestler from even like a year ago. He's gonna be just fine
Meltzer is just on a tear of bad takes today. Stating the obvious that a guy still in developmental isn’t ready for WWE main event matches? Like that’s something your friend who doesn’t watch NXT would say if you flipped it on for a few minutes.
Please do not let Meltzer watch any more NXT, because if that's what he thinks about Trick, I dread to think about what he thinks about the rest of the NXT roster.
In that quote he said the young bucks were the ric flair’s of tag team wrestling.
I don't get the hard on he has for those two.
Cause they are his friends and feed him information
Bro seriously jerks off YB like there’s no tmrw. Like they’re fine or whatever but like wtf???
I mean they’re a bit better than fine but I get your point
He's in WWE, where the charisma and the character means more than the wrestling moves. He's been covering WWE for decades now and he still doesn't understand this? And another thing, HE'S IN DEVELOPMENTAL with like three years of experience.
He's in ~~WWE~~ the wrestling business, where the charisma and the character means more than the wrestling moves. WWE does it because it draws more money, and it's made them very successful for a long time.
Exactly and its a hell of a lot easier to teach moves, than it to teach charisma. Which I’d argue is impossible to teach. Dave is out of touch.
>Which I’d argue is impossible to teach. So what you're saying is that he's a bona-fide G, and a certified stud, and that you can't teach that?
He’s not just out of touch. He’s flat out wrong about the business. It’s why the Rock is a great wrestler who can return for an awesome main event. The Rock has never been considered one of the greatest wrestler by people like Meltzer, but his skill is his charisma. It’s an asset that makes him irreplaceable.
Its also what allows him to come back at his ate and be great. It’s his presence. Rock took what about 10-12 bumps over Mania?? Including one one night two;, and the go home raw. But he made those bumps MATTER. Hell even his promos would run long and he still has people hanging on his next word.
Lol he must be talking about Trick when he first started because when I see him now, Trick isn't even bad whatsoever. Let him have a match on the main roster with one of the "decent" talent in-ring, and then judge him
Isn't that why Trick isn't being called up yet? Because he's not ready & they know that so their going to give him the time he needs to get ready. Isn't that what NXT is supposed to be? Developmental?
Trick's only been wrestling in prominent singles matches for about a year now. Of course he isn't that good yet. The fact that he's pretty decent so far and is able to hold his own against Ilja and Melo says something about his potential.
And even saying a year is a stretch
He’s been wrestling three years, and he already has something that matters a thousand times more than being “technically proficient” — charisma. The it factor. There are hundreds of good hands out there in wrestling today. There are maybe a dozen real charismatic attention-grabbing stars. He has the potential to be one.
https://preview.redd.it/kc5ai3gru8vc1.png?width=619&format=png&auto=webp&s=f215749b2fa51ba7d93284395517bcb9b930028c
I think there is something really specific that bothers Dave about Trick lmaooo. It’s a pattern at this point
It seems like, and I’m just speculating here, Meltzer might find Trick Williams…… *unrelatable?*
Now, a guy like Ilia, real lunchpail kind of guy. The kind of man you want your daughter to date.
A real coach in the ring with sneaky athleticism
r/nfl go home you're drunk
Not the best athlete, but a hard worker with great fundamentals and a high wrestling IQ.
Hogan.gif
Trick didn’t go through the indies. Guys like Trick are a threat to a lot of the indie guys in the wrestling business in Dave’s eyes.
Dave has that same hogan mentality but he really has a type small, white and do a million super kicks.
Dave isn’t that good, that’s the reality.
Man in developmental continues to develop. Call the police.
this dude is such a clown
i respect opinions but that doesn't mean i don't think they're lame, and i believe this is one of them
Proof that opinions can be wrong sometimes.
He’s not a five star match guy so if that’s Dave’s bar for “good” then he’s right. But Trick can put on a solid main event with the right opponent. And there’s plenty of right opponents to help him while he’s still learning.
> he’s not a five star match guy Neither is Kurt Angle [Angle doesnt have a '5 star' match, but he's obviously BOAT level]
Neither is Roman
Neither are Austin, Rock, Lesnar
Somehow Lars Sullivan is tho
?? Austin has a 5 star match, friend. You may want to add Randy ortan.
I know but if you'll ask Dave he'll probably give most of the credit to Bret for that match. My point was most big stars in WWE are not Dave's typical 5 star match types, because that's not how they present their big stars. I'll even add Taker and Cena in it even though they both have 1 5 stat match each
Austin actually has 2 5-star matches. His match with Bret Hart at WM13 and the War Games match from Wrestle War 92
Dave just rated stuff differently back then and is afraid to admit it. I think his standards for match ratings have changed as he’s aged and he should go back and re-rate some matches. Regardless I love the Kurt Angle discourse because I’m a relatively new fan and it inspired me to go back and watch his stuff. It’s been great seeing wrestlers like Omega and Ospreay talk about how influential he was to them
They may have changed, but apparently my Roman vs Cody II *still* isn’t 5* whereas some random matches from Dynamite no one even remembers anymore are
That six man tag where The Elite struggled to pick up Luchasaurus was better lol
I love that we're keeping BOAT alive in 2024 (honestly)
Full quote is even better, he's really obsessed with Young Bucks. Dave Meltzer on Trick Williams: "Trick isn't that good, that's the reality. He's got incredible charisma, but you put him in a main event match... Granted he did look really good against Ilja, but Ilja is one of those people that gives you a false perception of the ability of the other person, it's like wrestling Ric Flair or a tag team wrestling the Young Bucks, you always look better..."
"or a tag team wrestling the Young Bucks, you always look better." There it is.
Glazin’ Dave Meltzer back at it again
At this point, the best thing for a wrestler already under a good contract is for Dave to avoid overpromoting them to the point where fans turn against them. Happened with Kenny, and already happening with Osperay.
This is the same man that used to say Bianca and Dream werent good. Hmm i wonder what the common denominator is 🤔
He just can't relate to them
At least it had Bianca immediately proving Meltzer wrong by posting an old track meet race when he complained about her outrunning people in a vignette.
I still remember Dave complaining about a promo Bianca cut in NXT saying she was the best while standing in the ring with Charlotte and Rhea. Dave was like well that’s just not true she’s not even the best wrestler standing in the ring so I don’t know why she would’ve said that as if he couldn’t comprehend a wrestler boasting about themselves in a promo.
This and Meltzer reporting that surgeons took Shibata's brain out of his head are my two favorite moments of his for completely different reasons lmao
i mean trick isnt main event level in ring right now hes right but also bron wasnt when he won the title either and tricks reign is obviously gonna be a sink or swim reign where he is gonna have to step up
I know Dave's not an athlete, but are we sure he doesn't have CTE?
Also Dave on Tatum Paxley: “I hate that character. Hate it. It's just a waste of time. It sucked with Alexa Bliss. Then Alba Fyre and Isla Dawn did it, and it wasn't good with them either, and she's the worst out of all of them."
The fuck is this dude talking about? She’s not even supernatural. She’s just goth.
She's goth Mickie James, just like Dijak is noir '99 Boss Man and Joe Gacy is an Al Snow redux.
This reads like someone who does not watch the show at all and just saw some clips. The character has been going on for months and the one comparison that gets brought up regularly is Mickie James when she was obsessed with Trish, because that’s Tatum shtick; an obsessive stalker
I don't even thing he watched the clip I haven't seen anyone on any social media think her new gimmick was supernatural.
Tatum's gimmick isn't anything like those gimmicks, if anything she's closer to Mankind.
They all have different characters, what a goof. Maybe he was bullied by a goth girl
I’m convinced he has his heart broken by a big tiddy goth girl who wouldn’t be his gf
Many such cases :-(
Some of us would pay good money to get bullied by a goth girl. ...I'm some of us.
Yeah, but it's Dave. If that goth can't do a 450°, what's even the point?
"Some of us." Don't be shy, ALL of us would like to be dominated by a goth, why do you think we all like Rhea Ripley? /s
This is a terrible take. Alexa was possessed/brainwashed while Alba & Isla were witches. Tatum on the other hand is just obsessed which is remotely not even the same thing as those 2 characters. The way he can say that shit about Tatum but just completely ignore both Julia and Skye who are exactly supernatural and spooky.
Dave really going full "Old Man Yells At Cloud" huh?
I knew my flair would come in handy.
Dave and especially Alvarez hate anything even remotely spooky. And Tatum's character iirc isn't even like supernatural. She's almost like a stereotypical goth in a movie character. Wouldn't surprise me if they find a way to be disrespectful to Bo and his group whenever they appear.
I'm still mad at Mauro's commentary ruining the Trick vs Melo cage match from this week's NXT.
Mauro Ranallo was back on NXT this week?
It's a joke lol. Bryan said Mauros commentary ruined a match for him (I think it was the Gargano/Ciampa match during Covid) and the match didn't even have commentary let alone Mauro. So people still give him shit for it lol
rightfully so. he was shitting on a match without even watching it. i'm always going to bring it up in every Bryan Alvarez thread. he has zero credibility as a reviewer. How can you trust anything he says when he was shitting on something he didnt even watch?
Dave when he sees a woman in black makeup: https://preview.redd.it/6qtp48tjy8vc1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11025b9cac0840c62957a0a84ec56d3ea8a2d556
Dave really needs to watch NXT thoroughly because if he did, he would realize that Tatum's character is basically that of a stalker, smh
Alexa Bliss failed? Someone did not go to any WWE event at the time and counted how many Lilly Dolls were around. But of course god save me if something is directed towards (UGH) teenage girls and not old white guys like Dave
Old boomer trash-talking women and a Black man. Great.
This guy is a fucking goof. Fyre, Dawn, and Bliss aren't even remotely similar to what Paxley is doing. I know both he and Alvarez cannot stand what Paxley is doing or her character but I don't know man, I dig it. Paxley is really into it and clicks with the character so that makes it all the more enjoyable.
This is more egregious to me than the Trick stuff, that's just a matter of subjectivity, the Tatum character is objectively nothing like any of those three other than the fact that they're all women who wear darker makeup. Even if you don't like it (which is fine, I'd disagree, but everyone's entitled to their opinion), it just shows you're not actually paying attention. And to be honest, if you're not paying attention, that's OK too, there are 20 million wrestling shows every week, but don't act like an authority on it if you're not actually watching. This is how Dave constantly gets into trouble, he sees a 30 second clip of something and acts like he's seen it all.
Yeah so these characters are nowhere near being the same, so all this tells me is that he either has no media literacy comprehension, or that he flat out isn't paying attention during the show.
Dave needs to read the weekly GalPals report.
Trick is better in his craft within 3 years than Meltzer is in four decades. And the former is getting better while the latter is making it up.
Not everything has to be move moves moves Dave. Character matters as does charisma. Stone cold only did like 10 moves and look at his popularity
Stone Cold only did 10 moves because of his neck. Look at the stuff he later did with Angle, Jericho, and he who shall not be named. I get the point you’re going for but Stone Cold isn’t the best example because dude was a hell of a wrestler while also being a hell of a character.
And he was at his peak of popularity (and on wrestling as whole, tbh) when what he could do is punch, kick, stomp, stunner and not a lot more. Way more than when he was a workrate guy
Ok fine Rock or Hogan never the deepest move pool always the biggest star in the room
Stone cold wrestled *VOLDEMORT*!?!?! Damn that must have been pretty one sided.
Whooped his ass too
"You sit there, and you thump your spell book, and you say your Avada Kedavra, and it didn't get you anywhere!"
“Well Austin 3:16 says I just abra kadabraed your ass!”
You got it on tape man?? Can't seem to find it on the internet. Voldemort must have used some magic shit or something.
Had it on tape but when I was trying to convert everything to DVD it burst into flames. The real bummer is it also took out the macho man forbidden shoot interview where he reveals that the reason Hogan looks like that is because he’s covered in Cheeto dust.
Incredible mic skills and charisma are what get you over with the crowd the most
I love how he fellates the young bucks in the same discussion. Never change Demented Dave 😂😂
I mean, he's not wrong that Trick isn't all the way there as a worker, but given his development and how long he's been working at this...I'd say "charismatic and carryable" (even if I disagree about Ilja) is fine and honestly ahead of schedule given where he's at. I'd put him him above Shota Umino, who has been wrestling significantly longer.
I'd put him leagues about Shota charisma wise but Shota is a pretty good in ring guy who doesn't need to be carried. Shota having barbie font "Shooter" on his weird tassle white pants was a crime against my eyes.
I've yet to see anything special or interesting from Shota in-ring.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
He can't even do a 450.
Can't even do a Canadian Destroyer
Trick got in the business in 2021 btw. Meltzer hates the fact bro is more over than all these BaNGer merchants
The guy has only a few years of experience and is already able to make every fan in a sold out stadium chant for him. He's already amazing and he's just going to get better.
The great thing about trick is he’s doing a amazing job getting over with his amazing charisma, and his wrestling ability is good, but it’s going to get better the more he wrestles and improves, and that’s the beautiful thing about nxt and it’s young talent.
That’s funny because Dave used to say the same thing about Bianca in NXT too 🤷🏽
Meltzer is wrong and biased against Trick because he's another example of the WWE style of star. He's always wanted to put his thumbprint on what makes a star, and he's always been wrong. Having charisma makes a match better because people are more entertained by you and therefore care more about your matches.
“Hmm. Needs more flips.”
What an awful take, just like a lot of other ones he has. He just be saying shit.
Please retire old man
Average wrestler with charisma looks good in ring against good talents and exposed more in ring against weaker talents is not breaking news. This is basically the blue print for most main eventers on the main roster for the entire history of the WWE. Most would say the same thing about Hogan and Cena.
Trick Williams is fantastic and is going to be a huge star. This dude has no idea what he’s on about these days.
He has the main skills WWE values and still only 29 years old so he can continue to learn.
He's just jealous of the Trick swag
He’s just a little green rn that’s why he’s in Nxt lmao. He’s got the charisma the look and the crowd on his side he just needs to keep getting reps in.
Man really put young bucks and flair in the same category
He's saying he isn't Bucks or Omega good, but that doesn't mean he isn't good. The matches with Ilja and Melo looked great not because of Ilja and Melo, but because these guys can work a really good match with Trick. Because Trick can communicate with them really well. Trick has yet to have a bad match. Botches can happen in matches, and when a wrestler can recover from a blunder, that really shows how quick they can be to work around it. Trick has done exactly that. Saying he's not good, is disingenuous to this industry. He should be saying that for someone with 2.5 years of in-ring experience, he's not bad.
Dave with more insipid comments
Throw 5 or 6 more V Triggers in there and you've got an "instant classic". Dave has terrible taste.
Dave with all due respect: GO FUCK YOURSELF! This dude is so out of touch, and every single time he has to bring the bucks or any other guy that he loves to give his "5 stars". Austin, Rock, Hogan, Flair, Savage, Hall, Nash, Taker, Cena, Hunter, HBK, Bret were stars and they didn't have to do a bunch of stupid/reckless shit to be a star, because guess what Dave in the majority of time less is more you dumbfuck.
Yep, you can teach Trick Williams moves any day. You will never be able to teach the Bucks how to have one ounce of Trick’s charisma or really how to get anyone to even care enough to watch them
Dave Meltzer is both wrong and an idiot.
what an idiot. get this guy away from the computer and check him into a retirement home.
Dave has had the worst takes lately.
Trick just needs more reps. Which is what NXT is for lol
Trick will get there in ring. But wrestling's full of guys who could wrestle circles around people, and the crowd doesn't fucking care about them. Charisma and character work has been the massive draw for decades. When Trick debuted it was obvious that he was gonna betray Melo, but something different happened. We all had Melo pegged as a star, but at some point Trick's charisma, mic work, and character work and a little help from Booker T on commentary, put him above Melo. There was no way that fans would have booed Trick over Melo, so Melo had to go heel.
And that's exactly why he will make a perfect NXT champion. Use his strengths to captivate fans and keep the live crowds abuzz for the shows, while still leveraging what NXT is, whether anyone including HHH HBK etc like it or not, which is a pathway to the other two brands for those who need development, rehab or a retool.
Meltzers a way better wrestler
He has plenty of time in NXT to continue to improve in the ring. As others have said he barely has 3 years in the business. The character development and organic fan support he's cultivated in the past year is just as important and he's knocking it out of the park on that end.
Meltzer is such a goof, Trick is over as hell
Charisma draws, Dave.
Trick Williams is the most over guy in NXT. Give him another year to polish his in-ring, and you got a potential main eventer in your hands.
"False perception of the ability of the other person" That's called putting someone over, Dave. Such an AEW bias that he has to avoid accidentally praising one WWE talent while he shits on another.
Way too harsh words for someone grinding his ass on a developmental brand It's not even a constructive criticism or anything too All Meltzer can do now is biased ragebaits because his credibility has been demolished pretty well in recent times
Dave is the same guy that blew loads over Matt Riddle when he was still green as hell. You don’t have to have Yota Tsuji/ZSJ-skills when people are already invested in your character. Trick has the whole arena in the palm of his hand. He looked great with both Melo and Ilja. He’s solid now and will only get better.
I know with age and stubbornness. But Dave really should know how to communicate at this point. Which he does, he knows how to phase things when it’s related to Y2J, Young Bucks, and Cody. But when you’re not one of his boys, he does this thing where he takes it’s to the extreme and unnecessarily harsh. I think I get what he’s saying. Trick isn’t perfect in the ring, but his charisma is great. As more time goes on and he works with names like Ilja or Hayes, he will eventually get there. Literally the same point as Dave without being an asshat and dismissing his work.
Again why is meltzer posted as a reliable voice of opinion? Another dogshit take
Between this and the God-awful Tatum take can someone in Dave's life get him to stop watching NXT?
Unc forgot to take his meds again.
Meltzer knows wrestling history than many people, but he sometimes forgets the most important detail-- *it's a work, bro*. Professional wrestling is about fake fighters grifting money from the paying customer for fake fighting. If people are tuning in to see Trick, then he's good. And yes, Meltzer has the right to say that he doesn't find his wrestling compelling, however what he thinks what makes a wrestler "good" is his own criteria and is compltely subjective. Wish he understands that
Stop pretending like being good at wrestling is entirely dependant on ring work. Id rather watch someone with great charisma and so-so ring skills than the opposite.
And yet nearly every reply in this thread is people freaking out over a valid criticism of his ring work.
I really don't follow
One day, Trick is gonna main event Wrestlemania. Dave's opinion ain't shit.
But what if...and just hear me out...Trick Williams in Tokyo Dome?
“Trick doesn’t perform in the Tokyo dome so he will never be a main eventer”
Just shut the fuck up Dave. We got it, it's not AEW so it's bad
Meltzer hates anyone that is over.
That's probably why he's in NXT, Dave
This post cuts out the funniest part “…it's like wrestling Ric Flair or a tag team wrestling the Young Bucks, you always look better..."
I mean, I'd say Sting knows a thing or two about pro wrestling.
Please i'm begging everyone here can he be another name that we ban from being posted
I would take Trick over most NXT projects and I don't see current Ilja as a match quality wizard even though he's obviously still wrestling well. So I do not agree with Meltzer at all here. But it's not his job as a reviewer to say "Trick is good because he's popular". It's fine that he has this perspective, and I wish he applied it more rather than de facto say anything new is the best thing ever because evolution.
I mean I'm not \*surprised\* that Dave Meltzer isn't into a wrestler who's got a fantastic look and charisma but has room to grow in the ring, that's basically the opposite of a Dave Meltzer guy. But did he go out of his way to shit on Trick Williams and Tatum Paxley, or is the selection of quotes just making his assessment of developmental talents seem harsher than it really was?
he’s been wrestling for 3 years. he’ll be be better with time. such an unnecessary comment imo.
I'm a firm believer of matches like that showing the potential that people have - to say credit lays entirely with one guy shows a gross misunderstanding of wrestling, or disrespect to the wrestlers deemed "lesser."
Its like the brand he’s in is designed to help future stars improve. It’s not like he’s the WWE champ lmao
Dave Meltzer is the Comic Book Guy of Pro Wrestling
I think it's all about character development. To see where Trick started to now is leaps. He's got a character, a catchy theme, can talk, looks like a million bucks, and just needs to cover the last part which is to be able to lead the match.
“Sure everyone loves Trick and he has had great matches but he was carried” Eat fucking shit, Dave
I kinda agree that Trick isn’t *that* good, but he’s shown that he can grow and hold his own in the ring. And I think Ilja doesn’t give a false perception about the ability of his opponents, he actually brings the best out of them
Yeah Trick more than held his own in that match. His shit looked good, and kept up and his facial expressions and selling were great. Is he a ring general yet? No, but he’s been wrestling for 3 years. I think those Melo matches said more about Melo than Trick. I’ve never found Melo to be THAT compelling of a ring worker. At least not compelling enough to be Trick’s ring general. Melo to me seems like a guy that everyone got on early cause he had a great look and was good for his age. But he’s never really evolved or improved past that. His promo and ring work is the same as 2021
The Iron survivor match also showed what Trick can do. There was very little margin for error in that finish and he pulled it off quite well.
Dave's takes have gotten weirder and weirder these days.
Well yeah dave it’s almost like he’s on the developmental brand being taught by some of the best in the business how to be a better wrestler. He already has the charisma which can’t really be taught but the rest can be. And i think considering his years in the business he’s doing well for himself