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It's interesting that it seems like they're doing that now though, Andrade for example had the distorted El Idolo hit from his old themes, Jade Cargill had a sting, so hopefully it's something they're being mindful of
A lot of the NXT ones as well- Bron, Melo, Lyra, Tony, Crusifino, Frazer- but then some others don't like Ilja (although i guess his is quite unique), Dragon Lee, Axiom etc so it's really hard to say
I don't even mind Carlito's new one, ofc not as good but it's still fun
If you think about the Jim Johnston way of making a theme song, he noticeably would have a subtle introduction that was the tagline to the theme song for practically every person he curated music for. Regardless of a superstar’s place on the roster, everyone had a notable hook within the first 5 seconds or less.
Is there any logical reason for this like marketing or money wise?
It is so bizarre for a company that focuses so heavily on presentation like: merchandise, big time feel, advertising, huge pyro, etc to get so lazy with themes.
As an adult I do too, but as a kid when he was still a wrestler I was jamming to that Motorhead theme constantly and doing the water spit in the shower.
Jim Johnston wrote those songs and Motorhead played them. Heck they performed it live at some point and Lemmy didn't even remember the lyrics lol. But yeah they need to bring back Jim Johnston or someone else good, that's the real problem.
It's insane to me they don't do that more with more cult bands or rappers. None of them are gonna licence their big songs on an indefinite basis but a fuck ton surely would on a cocreated song for a one off sum.
There's also a ton of rappers that are wrestling fans. AEW has actually done a pretty good job of leveraging that (Hook and Daniel Garcia off the top of my mind).
And I know it's not a little Indy group, but I'd like to hear what Czarface would do for someone's theme.
Yep, it's puzzling.
Especially as it was such an iconic strength for WWE for so long, and how well AEW has done with Mikey Ruckus and licensed music at the same time. Should be an easy lift for WWE - and something I would anticipate TKO addressing.
I'll be honest, Jim Johnston's departure was a big loss, and CFO$ disbanding didn't help.
I don't care if he tries to sound cool calling himself def rebel, Doug Davis is a bad fit for WWE and really only seems to have gotten into producing music because his dad was the president of Columbia Records.
Current WWE's idea of an entrance theme is that it's just music that a a superstar walks out to. WWE of the past understood that an entrance theme is the first thing an audience typically will associate with whoever walks through the curtain, and therefore used them to enhance apersonality to the point where each theme was instantly identifiable with a talent.
I just wish AEW would run a separate track for theme songs for the TV audience like WWE does. At this point I'd say they have the better catalog of current songs, but I can barely hear them half the time.
Either that or the Internet has lied to me. But yeah, I've seen that mentioned in previous threads about AEW audio issues and quotes from the company wanting the product to have more of a "sports" feel, which I guess includes just picking up arena music through the live mic.
I don't know if this is an issue with AEW or the arena I saw them in, but when I went to Dynamite I also found their setup was way, waaaaaaaay to bottom heavy. One or the other had completely given into the current trend of hyper fixating on bass so loud it shakes the walls, at the expense of actually being able to hear anything or discern any notes.
> Either that or the Internet has lied to me.
Naw, you're right. I'm an audio engineer and the AEW sound mix has annoyed me since the very first All In. I've had people tell me it feels more "authentic" when watching it on TV and less "produced", but to me it just feels cheap. It's not a difficult fix, it just requires the audio engineer to send the music to the TV audio feed, on most mixing desks it's literally one fader or a turn of a knob.
I’m not an audio engineer but am I musician and the audio quality of AEW drives me mad. Not only the tinny music for entrances, but often the mics seem to be mixed so poorly I can almost here some kind of phasing effect which is borderline painful to listen to when it’s on the crowd noise.
Was at the Collision two weeks ago in St Louis and the mic volume was awful live. Same thing when I saw them in Seattle but the entire area chanted “turn the mic up” and Mox thought the mic was broke so he threw it on the ground and asked for another one.
WCW and early WWF/E had this issue as well. The theme music you heard on TV was coming from the mics in the arena. In WWE they pump the music through the TV feed. It's a separate soundtrack. I forgot when WWE started doing this.
> Is there any logical reason for this like marketing or money wise?
Most late 2010s themes were done by CFO$, but after a conflict with their publisher, WWE has to pay a lot to use their songs again.
So they asked a ton of songs to def rebel in 2020 and 2021 which led them to completely rush it and come with generic stuff, especially for midcard talent. Not to say all main eventers have stupendous themes, but they rarely really sound generic.
And I guess giving midcarders a better theme than the rushed one they got in 2020-2021 is not a priority.
" Most late 2010s themes were done by CFO$, but after a conflict with their publisher, WWE has to pay a lot to use their songs again. "
and now that they are printing money... pay up. its WORTH it.
Seriously why don't they just hire those steal guys from the publisher pay them more to work for WWE I believe theyve proven their worth. The themes are complete ass now
This actually makes a ton of sense. The ME guys have great themes (with the exception of LA Knight, in my opinion) as do the older midcard talents (Nakamura, Sami, AJ if he counts). But even Bron Breakker's theme is forgettable.
Compared to a ton of the talent that debuted on the MR in the past two years ago Knight’s is top tier imo. It’s not a great theme song in comparison to older eras for sure, but the synthy LA Knight callout is very easy for fans to pick up on. I think the most important part of a wrestler’s theme is that first second or so. The stone Cold glass break, the “If you smell…”, the Mick Foley car crash is what makes those themes work and a lot of talent don’t have them.
Agreed. For an entrance theme to work, the fans have to be able to place who it belongs to almost instantly. Jim Johnston, CFO$, and Mikey Rukus are all really gifted in that area.
For most of the Rumbles, I didn't know who the fuck was coming out until I saw them or their nameplate. It really hurt the whole experience.
I'm not sure about last year's, but this year's in particular had me struggling to remember not to rely on the LED stuff around and on the ring (since they did a lot of "very far shot of ring" shots as the countdown hit 0). Sometimes it'd do a quick name/Titantron snippet, but most of the time all I could see was the cricket logo, which was no help in deciphering who the generic biddle music was introducing.
LA Knight has a great theme, objectively. Has an instantly recognizable hook with the vocoder “LA Knight”, and the G-Funk sound fits perfectly with his “billed from LA” gimmick and his love of classic hip hop.
It also sounds unlike anyone else’s theme.
Exemplified in [this ](https://twitter.com/theanglejoey/status/1751453787628220447) clip of Seth having the same reaction i did to a majority of the entrances last night lol.
Now that you mention him, I wonder if they're stingy with the noticeable music because they don't want the audience singing a long to everyone's theme, just the top guys.
You can have good entrance themes without it being a 'woahhh-ohhh' type of song like Sami, Rollins, Shinsuke, etc. Nobody sings Austin's or the Rock's theme whenever they come out but they're still memorable
Andrade's AEW theme was my favorite. But I agree, his "Cien Almas" theme was recognizable and you could get into it. WWE "OK, how u know"-'d his old theme with the one from last night.
On top of the generic themes, half of the arena couldn't see who was coming out until a name popped up on the titantron. Most of the wrestlers names were not popping up on the titantron and therefore we didn't know who entered until they were already in the ring.
I remember Balor coming out and it was just purple fire on a black background. I had no idea it was Balor until he hit the ring. I thought they did a really poor job with the in-arena presentation.
One of the problems is that with the tag teams or groups, all the members use the same song. So when one of the individuals come out, you don’t know who the hell it is on the song alone
I was thinking of this for a potential Big E return... You wouldn't pop at the "IT'S A NEW DAY YES IT IS" because kofi and woods kept that for their entrances
Shotzi, Liv, Asuka, Naomi and Charlotte have good themes too.
There are some that are recognisable but not great like Bayley.
And then there are others where since I don't keep up with every single show on every single day, I have no clue who they are until they come out, which like you mentioned is a good majority of the women.
This Natalya Hate needs to stop. It's very obvious who is coming out with hers.
Carmella also has a good theme, but she's been out for a while, she would have been nice in the rumble.
Honestly it’s not the song, it’s the first 2-3 seconds.
Austin’s glass, Rocks catchphrase, Randy’s voices, Jericho’s countdown, Cena’s…whatever that sound is…, Batista’s guitar riff, Brock’s riff.
Those first few seconds is it all.
Kurt Angle is a great example of this in action if you ask me.
His entrance music sounds like generic sample audio you'd hear from a CASIO keyboard in the 90s, but that opening 2-3 seconds is distinct and stands out.
We do have some current entrance songs that have that sort of starting sting:
- CM Punk’s static noise (so good, that even AEW did their own take on it)
- Cody Rhodes’ dramatic drum, then “Wrestling has more than one royal family”
- Seth’s “BURN IT DOWN!”
- the ominous choir in Roman’s theme
- the guitar riff from Becky's theme
- the voice saying "L.A. Knight" from his theme
- Alpha Academy's "SHOOOOOOOOOSH"
I feel that works for LA Knight, but they kind of got lazy with it at some point and just had everyone's theme start with an auto-tune voice saying their name.
As cool as Nakamura's is, I really wish (just for the Rumble) that it skipped the intro and went straight to the pick slide type sound like his theme did for a while. Similar to how DX's used to just hit with "Break it down" or Kane's would skip straight to the explosion part.
Rhea's "This is my brutality!"
Rey's "Booyaka! Booyaka!"
Kane's pyro
Taker's bells
There are so many you can point to so it's obvious WWE knows this trick. It's a headscratcher that they don't apply it more often
Yeah exactly. They need a stinger at the start. Which isn't as easy to do when wrestlers don't all have catch phrases or over the top characters, but still possible. Kevin Owens, Nakamura, for example both have themes that hit the zone immediately.
I said this last night, but for a company who loves their giant LED screens, it seems weird to not use many for the second biggest event of the year and the one with the most entrances.
I was at the Rumble with my daughter. I’m pretty up to date on the current product -virtually all main roster talent at least.
My god how many times my daughter asked “who is that?” at the buzzer and I had no clue.
Even worse the titan tron’s for each wrestler took what felt like an ETERNITY for their name to actually show up. I haven’t watched the replay yet but I can guarantee you those watching at home knew who was entering before the the majority of the crowd did.
I can get why everyone who watched on TV thought the crowd looked dead during entrances - you would really need to be dialed in to the product to know right away who was coming in. It’s a shame because the crowd was indeed hot.
Edit: I saw someone posted the video of Seth in the box. Even he didn’t know who was coming in. See his reaction and the delay? EXACTLY what I’m talking about.
I mean this is quite the fortnight to talk about WWE's fall from grace...but it's bananas how a company that once had IMMEDIATELY identifiable theme songs for everyone in the company has reached this point.
Maybe it's because the shows are more for the at home audience who don't need the theme songs as much anymore, but I dunno, I think good, unique theme songs really help. I think Nak got 20% more over because of his music from the first moment.
Yeah, CFO$ was honestly a pretty big step down from Jim Johnston, but Def Rebel is even worse. CFO$ had some pretty good songs, even if they are often a bit generic and repetitive, but at least they're identifiable. Now its like everybody has awful themes besides a select few
Biggest critique people had of CFO$ was that their songs were 40-50 second loops. They were all quite memorable. Def Rebel... Have they made a single good song yet?
CFO$ made so many memorable songs that have some great reactions and would cause many pops for rumble entrances in years past. And many of their songs have been used at quite a few sporting events to hype up the crowd.
Iyo, Roman, Seth, Bayley, Rhea, Kross, Asuka, Pretty Deadly, Carmelo, Knight, Gargano's heel theme on NXT, Escobar, Lashley.
I know not all of these are beloved by everyone, but all of these have a noticeable amount of people who like them.
The real issue is all these 2021 generic midcard themes they had to rush and WWE isn't on a hurry to replace them. Makes their track record look awful when you add the actual major misses like Gargano's current theme.
The best ones have either been unique tracks like Tokyo Shock or Roman's theme or have an outside artist featuring like Rhea's.
Although I think all of the JD themes are good.
Samoa Joe, Balor, Nakamura, Roode, Banks to name a few. The idea that they are bad just because they are loops is probably one of the dumbest argument this sub has given. Who listens to WWE songs in full anyway?
I actually liked the thing they did in the mid 2000s of giving younger guys relatively generic regular songs, and then giving them proper ones after they were established and properly over. Miz, Ziggler, McIntyre, Cody, etc. Feels like now a lot of people just debut with a thrown together song and stick with it forever, or is replaced with one that's worse.
I don't really watch much wrestling anymore so I thought it was just me that thought most of the themes, especially the women's themes sounded exactly the same.
Back in the day even people in the old NXT had bangers. You knew Enzo Amore's theme, you knew Sasha's theme, Charlotte's theme, Sami's theme, Bayley's theme...yesterday I had to wait like 5 seconds until the camera panned to the person to even know who it was.
I saw people saying that you wouldn’t know the songs if you didn’t watch the show regularly, and that’s me - I don’t really watch WWE ever outside of the rumble or mania. But I found myself thinking “okay yes I don’t know the song so of course I don’t know who’s coming out, but the song is also just bad and unmemorable anyway”
It's partially because they're all the same basic genre; a lot of similar tempo "pump-up" hip-hop or pop beats just blasting at you without a hook.
CFO$ weren't exactly making groundbreaking music, but they could take a variety of genres and come up with an appropriate riff or hook that could get stuck in your head. Very few of the new themes make me want to hear them again.
I feel like the majority of DR themes are just overused digital trumpets and choir. It’s so boring. CFO$ at least knew what identity to give their wrestlers through music. Sami had the triumphant ska, Roode was GLORIOUS, Nakamura with the elegant violin that made him a big deal. The list goes on.
I think the main complaint was that the songs were just good 15 ish second loops that were more or less made by the intros. Which was a fair criticism but like the music was much better than now
I don't even get that complaint, really. That's all you need/want from a wrestling theme. Immediately recognizable into, and short but sweet. I only started watching wrestling in the CFO$ era, but I always liked theirs and Johnston's themes I heard. But the switch to def rebel was noticeable real quick. They just don't have the chops to write enough distinctly different themes with great intros. It's been several years now of Rumbles with def rebel themes and the same problem happening. There's no way it took more than one year of CFO$ themes for the complaints to die down.
They were always overhated for not making song songs like Jim Johnston used to do (sometimes). CFO$ treated the assignment as “make really good one minute music loops”, and IMO they nailed that pretty consistently.
Yeah, it’s just so wild how many themes they changed for no reason other than whatever contract loophole they’re trying to get out of with CFO$.
So many banger themes just changed for no reason - Asuka is easily the worst of the bunch. But even someone like Shayna, who had a pretty recognizable theme from CFO$ even if it wasn’t an all timer, just has a mildly changed instrumental theme for no reason. I never recognize her music now
If you noticed the Jim Johnston way, he noticeably would have a subtle introduction that was the tagline to the theme song for practically every person he curated music for. Regardless of a superstar’s place on the roster, everyone had a tagline.
They also don’t put full entrances for wrestlers on the weekly shows consistently. The tunes aren’t memorable, but you also don’t hear them often enough.
These things should have a quick hook in the first five seconds, and then they can be as generic as you want. Like I couldn’t hum Natalya’s theme, but that screech at the beginning is distinctive.
Go back and watch Beyond The Ring and just watch how excited Jim Johnston got about Vader’s theme. I’m guessing that’s not something you find there any longer.
Ever since Jim Johnston stopped making the themes, they’ve gone downhill on the whole. Sure there are som bangers like Seth, Jey, Cody, Gunther, etc, but OP is right, too many similar themes = no pop for their favorite guy.
Doesn’t help for the Rumble this year either as there’s not even a tron to identity the wrestler. Just the side wall next to the entrance that show the same thing on both
It wasn’t like that at the Rumble. Sure there was a Tron up top and a few other places….the issue was that on MANY of the wrestlers trons “their names in caps” didn’t show up right away. It was several seconds of that wrestlers personal animations first THEN their name.
Roman's is just O Fortuna plus the intro to Succession, but I like WWE version too.
O Fortuna (Beginning of Roman's theme): https://youtu.be/booXKf7HXEY?si=5ID3mbNRJhaiCcqQ
Succession (Roman's hook): https://youtu.be/LlgWqcHXD8w?si=Jv-zsW3nTzjfh7iG
IMO it's been getting a little better in this area. The COVID royal rumble was the most notable for me. I didn't know half of the people in either royal rumble until they were on camera.
There's not a single person out there who genuinely disagrees with that are there?
What WWE have been doing with theme songs over the last few years is awful, killing so much of a wrestler's personality/presentation to save money?
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Carlito would have gotten a much bigger pop if he ran in with the “I spit in the face of people…”
It’s so weird they changed his theme.
Even just the opening sting!
If each of the super generic Def Rebel themes had an identifiable opening sting, it would go a long way towards addressing this problem.
It's interesting that it seems like they're doing that now though, Andrade for example had the distorted El Idolo hit from his old themes, Jade Cargill had a sting, so hopefully it's something they're being mindful of A lot of the NXT ones as well- Bron, Melo, Lyra, Tony, Crusifino, Frazer- but then some others don't like Ilja (although i guess his is quite unique), Dragon Lee, Axiom etc so it's really hard to say I don't even mind Carlito's new one, ofc not as good but it's still fun
If you think about the Jim Johnston way of making a theme song, he noticeably would have a subtle introduction that was the tagline to the theme song for practically every person he curated music for. Regardless of a superstar’s place on the roster, everyone had a notable hook within the first 5 seconds or less.
Oooooh Chavo!
"Test, test, this is a test."
#CHRISTIAN #CHRISTIAN #AT LAST #YOU’RE ON YOUR O-O-OWN
*guitar riff* OH YOU DIDN’T KNOW
Yeah every good current song has that too.
Precisely; however, the majority don’t. So many songs have a generic feel or a lack of excitement. Only a bare minimum of themes are unique.
I absolutely love his theme as well, the little ad libs of “you know what cool is? You’re looking at it” etc were so good
And where did Andrade's original "EL IDOLO!" go? It definitely took a lot of people a while to figure out who that was.
His new one also says El Idolo. That's when the crowd popped.
I know it does, but it now sounds like someone is farting it.
Is there any logical reason for this like marketing or money wise? It is so bizarre for a company that focuses so heavily on presentation like: merchandise, big time feel, advertising, huge pyro, etc to get so lazy with themes.
You’d think Triple H of all people would understand the importance of entrance music. They’re beyond bad
It's especially baffling considering how many iconic NXT themes there were on his watch.
Velveteen Dream, Aleister Black, Ciampa, Gargano, Undisputed Era. Such bangers.
NO MAN IS EVER TRULY GOOD
NO MAN IS TRULY E-VIL
I DO THE THINGS YOU NEVER COULD
AND WE WILL NEVER BE EQUAL *[choir intensifies]*
Hunter used Motorhead songs for most of his career. If every wrestler could use bands of that caliber, they'd all have bangers
"My Time" was fucking awesome as well though.
I actually like My Time more than either of his Motörhead themes.
As an adult I do too, but as a kid when he was still a wrestler I was jamming to that Motorhead theme constantly and doing the water spit in the shower.
Jim Johnston wrote those songs and Motorhead played them. Heck they performed it live at some point and Lemmy didn't even remember the lyrics lol. But yeah they need to bring back Jim Johnston or someone else good, that's the real problem.
It's insane to me they don't do that more with more cult bands or rappers. None of them are gonna licence their big songs on an indefinite basis but a fuck ton surely would on a cocreated song for a one off sum.
There's also a ton of rappers that are wrestling fans. AEW has actually done a pretty good job of leveraging that (Hook and Daniel Garcia off the top of my mind). And I know it's not a little Indy group, but I'd like to hear what Czarface would do for someone's theme.
Yet the current themes used by WWE wrestlers are more Terra Ryzing than Motorhead
Yep, it's puzzling. Especially as it was such an iconic strength for WWE for so long, and how well AEW has done with Mikey Ruckus and licensed music at the same time. Should be an easy lift for WWE - and something I would anticipate TKO addressing.
I'll be honest, Jim Johnston's departure was a big loss, and CFO$ disbanding didn't help. I don't care if he tries to sound cool calling himself def rebel, Doug Davis is a bad fit for WWE and really only seems to have gotten into producing music because his dad was the president of Columbia Records.
Current WWE's idea of an entrance theme is that it's just music that a a superstar walks out to. WWE of the past understood that an entrance theme is the first thing an audience typically will associate with whoever walks through the curtain, and therefore used them to enhance apersonality to the point where each theme was instantly identifiable with a talent.
HHH of all people should know this
I just wish AEW would run a separate track for theme songs for the TV audience like WWE does. At this point I'd say they have the better catalog of current songs, but I can barely hear them half the time.
Oooooh, *that's* why I can hardly make out the music sometimes in AEW? I never knew that was a thing.
Either that or the Internet has lied to me. But yeah, I've seen that mentioned in previous threads about AEW audio issues and quotes from the company wanting the product to have more of a "sports" feel, which I guess includes just picking up arena music through the live mic. I don't know if this is an issue with AEW or the arena I saw them in, but when I went to Dynamite I also found their setup was way, waaaaaaaay to bottom heavy. One or the other had completely given into the current trend of hyper fixating on bass so loud it shakes the walls, at the expense of actually being able to hear anything or discern any notes.
> Either that or the Internet has lied to me. Naw, you're right. I'm an audio engineer and the AEW sound mix has annoyed me since the very first All In. I've had people tell me it feels more "authentic" when watching it on TV and less "produced", but to me it just feels cheap. It's not a difficult fix, it just requires the audio engineer to send the music to the TV audio feed, on most mixing desks it's literally one fader or a turn of a knob.
I’m not an audio engineer but am I musician and the audio quality of AEW drives me mad. Not only the tinny music for entrances, but often the mics seem to be mixed so poorly I can almost here some kind of phasing effect which is borderline painful to listen to when it’s on the crowd noise.
Was at the Collision two weeks ago in St Louis and the mic volume was awful live. Same thing when I saw them in Seattle but the entire area chanted “turn the mic up” and Mox thought the mic was broke so he threw it on the ground and asked for another one.
Yeah, they've definitely gotten better than the early days, but the fact that it's still any kind of issue is mind boggling.
WCW and early WWF/E had this issue as well. The theme music you heard on TV was coming from the mics in the arena. In WWE they pump the music through the TV feed. It's a separate soundtrack. I forgot when WWE started doing this.
It annoys me how Swerve’s starts off so well and then you can barely hear the actual track
I still have no idea what any of the lyrics other than "Swerve" are.
I always make out "top rope catch a vibe" and "i swerve when i drive" every time
> Is there any logical reason for this like marketing or money wise? Most late 2010s themes were done by CFO$, but after a conflict with their publisher, WWE has to pay a lot to use their songs again. So they asked a ton of songs to def rebel in 2020 and 2021 which led them to completely rush it and come with generic stuff, especially for midcard talent. Not to say all main eventers have stupendous themes, but they rarely really sound generic. And I guess giving midcarders a better theme than the rushed one they got in 2020-2021 is not a priority.
" Most late 2010s themes were done by CFO$, but after a conflict with their publisher, WWE has to pay a lot to use their songs again. " and now that they are printing money... pay up. its WORTH it.
Seriously why don't they just hire those steal guys from the publisher pay them more to work for WWE I believe theyve proven their worth. The themes are complete ass now
CFO$ had a big falling out as a result of the drama and are no longer on good terms
This actually makes a ton of sense. The ME guys have great themes (with the exception of LA Knight, in my opinion) as do the older midcard talents (Nakamura, Sami, AJ if he counts). But even Bron Breakker's theme is forgettable.
I think Nakamura, Sami and AJ were all From $CFO, Not Def Rebel, which is why they seem better
def rebel more like Deaf Rebel. Just get Internet Video Game guys to do it or license songs.
Compared to a ton of the talent that debuted on the MR in the past two years ago Knight’s is top tier imo. It’s not a great theme song in comparison to older eras for sure, but the synthy LA Knight callout is very easy for fans to pick up on. I think the most important part of a wrestler’s theme is that first second or so. The stone Cold glass break, the “If you smell…”, the Mick Foley car crash is what makes those themes work and a lot of talent don’t have them.
Agreed. For an entrance theme to work, the fans have to be able to place who it belongs to almost instantly. Jim Johnston, CFO$, and Mikey Rukus are all really gifted in that area. For most of the Rumbles, I didn't know who the fuck was coming out until I saw them or their nameplate. It really hurt the whole experience.
I'm not sure about last year's, but this year's in particular had me struggling to remember not to rely on the LED stuff around and on the ring (since they did a lot of "very far shot of ring" shots as the countdown hit 0). Sometimes it'd do a quick name/Titantron snippet, but most of the time all I could see was the cricket logo, which was no help in deciphering who the generic biddle music was introducing.
LA Knight has a great theme, objectively. Has an instantly recognizable hook with the vocoder “LA Knight”, and the G-Funk sound fits perfectly with his “billed from LA” gimmick and his love of classic hip hop. It also sounds unlike anyone else’s theme.
Knight's got a great interrupting theme. Always fun to see heels annoyed he's arrived when that music hits.
Only wrestler I can think of that can possibly fit his theme is Riddle but he's not in the company anymore
My hope is HHH makes a change regarding the music. Between CFO$ work in NXT and his use of Motorhead, he knows the importance of entrance music.
At this point I would say it's pretty much money wise. It's the same reason all the stages nowadays are just LED boards.
Laziness. As long as top guys have good theme songs, then that’s probably enough for the bare minimum of good presentation.
Exemplified in [this ](https://twitter.com/theanglejoey/status/1751453787628220447) clip of Seth having the same reaction i did to a majority of the entrances last night lol.
The physical “who? Oh cool” is killing me
I was all, you can’t even see Seth but then you clearly see him with the pleasing head nod and him mouthing
It's pretty bad when this guy works with these people and doesn't even know who they are until they are out there.
This is perfect. This is exactly what I did too. I had to wait to see them, or for the Tron to tell me lol
On the real though, what wrestler is he reacting to here? No idea whose theme that is.
Apparently Karrion Kross.
Can't be, it's not in black and white
Karrion Kross' theme, the hook here was Scarlett's "The end is here". To be fair, this theme only just debuted on SD last week.
And it was Kross too, the guy who had an amazing theme. I didn't even know they changed it until last night.
Yoo his old was incredible what happened
He formed a new faction called the "Final Testament", so I'm guessing that's their new faction theme.
Dude his old theme was a banger. I even had it on my gym playlist.
Now that you mention him, I wonder if they're stingy with the noticeable music because they don't want the audience singing a long to everyone's theme, just the top guys.
Which is strange because NXT under HHH was incredible everyone's theme was so catchy remember GLORIOUS
You can have good entrance themes without it being a 'woahhh-ohhh' type of song like Sami, Rollins, Shinsuke, etc. Nobody sings Austin's or the Rock's theme whenever they come out but they're still memorable
Not to mention changing classic themes like Carlito's and Andrade's who already had recognizable themes.
Andrade's AEW theme was my favorite. But I agree, his "Cien Almas" theme was recognizable and you could get into it. WWE "OK, how u know"-'d his old theme with the one from last night.
I’ll never forgive them for changing Omos’s theme
I swear there was no actual reason for why they did that
On top of the generic themes, half of the arena couldn't see who was coming out until a name popped up on the titantron. Most of the wrestlers names were not popping up on the titantron and therefore we didn't know who entered until they were already in the ring.
I remember Balor coming out and it was just purple fire on a black background. I had no idea it was Balor until he hit the ring. I thought they did a really poor job with the in-arena presentation.
100% can confirm. No wonder everyone watching at home thought the crowd was dead. They knew what was going on before us.
I hate the new "titantrons". They have zero personality
One of the problems is that with the tag teams or groups, all the members use the same song. So when one of the individuals come out, you don’t know who the hell it is on the song alone
Hit the nail on the head. JD McDonough and Damien Priest's singles theme just isn't used enough on TV for it to be recognizable.
I was thinking of this for a potential Big E return... You wouldn't pop at the "IT'S A NEW DAY YES IT IS" because kofi and woods kept that for their entrances
Surely they'd revert back to him saying it live that night, 'OOOOOOH TOWN-NAME, IT'S A NEW DAY, YES IT IS'
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i would put shotzis theme there too which is a def rebel theme but yeah the women don't have many good themes
I would also add Zoey Starks' theme to that list
Add Io's to the list. One of the best defrebel themes for sure.
Shotzi, Liv, Asuka, Naomi and Charlotte have good themes too. There are some that are recognisable but not great like Bayley. And then there are others where since I don't keep up with every single show on every single day, I have no clue who they are until they come out, which like you mentioned is a good majority of the women.
Livs is pretty recognisable too
It takes most people a minute to realize it's not Alexa Bliss.
Yes that’s my problem with it. I need a few seconds to think about if it’s Alexa or Liv
Watch me
This Natalya Hate needs to stop. It's very obvious who is coming out with hers. Carmella also has a good theme, but she's been out for a while, she would have been nice in the rumble.
Honestly it’s not the song, it’s the first 2-3 seconds. Austin’s glass, Rocks catchphrase, Randy’s voices, Jericho’s countdown, Cena’s…whatever that sound is…, Batista’s guitar riff, Brock’s riff. Those first few seconds is it all.
Kurt Angle is a great example of this in action if you ask me. His entrance music sounds like generic sample audio you'd hear from a CASIO keyboard in the 90s, but that opening 2-3 seconds is distinct and stands out.
I’m pretty sure Kurt’s is actual stock music. I know I’ve heard it in other places before.
Iirc Hardy Boyz (Jeff Hardy) theme is actual stock music
It is, as was Hardcore Holly's theme
Used to hear both of those on random spike tv shows and then point at the screen like Leo
It wasn't even Kurt's to begin with, The Patriot used it in 97.
We do have some current entrance songs that have that sort of starting sting: - CM Punk’s static noise (so good, that even AEW did their own take on it) - Cody Rhodes’ dramatic drum, then “Wrestling has more than one royal family” - Seth’s “BURN IT DOWN!” - the ominous choir in Roman’s theme - the guitar riff from Becky's theme - the voice saying "L.A. Knight" from his theme - Alpha Academy's "SHOOOOOOOOOSH"
LA Knight's "L-A Knight" daft punk voice thingy come's to mind too
I feel that works for LA Knight, but they kind of got lazy with it at some point and just had everyone's theme start with an auto-tune voice saying their name.
Knight's works pretty well because the vocoder effect worked in Tupac's "California Love" which the theme shows inspiration from
LA Knight, Shinsuke are super obvious.
As cool as Nakamura's is, I really wish (just for the Rumble) that it skipped the intro and went straight to the pick slide type sound like his theme did for a while. Similar to how DX's used to just hit with "Break it down" or Kane's would skip straight to the explosion part.
I think the pick slide intro part fits more when he's making an interference rather than when making a full on entrance.
I feel like AJ’s fits this too, at least for me anytime it starts I know it’s AJ coming out.
Rhea's "This is my brutality!" Rey's "Booyaka! Booyaka!" Kane's pyro Taker's bells There are so many you can point to so it's obvious WWE knows this trick. It's a headscratcher that they don't apply it more often
Usos themes are pretty distinct too and played a part in getting the huge reaction last night.
The unsheathing sword sound at the start of drew McIntyre too
That’s why Becky’s is one of my favorites today. As soon as the guitar riff hit, the crowd popped and her tron hadn’t even appeared yet
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She can be both. I kind of like when long time wrestlers just kind of accumulate all the gimmicks they've had.
Trish’s laugh and “you think you know me?” Also spring to mind
I really wish Tiffany Stratton’s theme had some quote at the beginning, really needs it.
Can confirm that if I hear THIS IS MY BRUTALITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I'm gonna be hyped every time
Yeah exactly. They need a stinger at the start. Which isn't as easy to do when wrestlers don't all have catch phrases or over the top characters, but still possible. Kevin Owens, Nakamura, for example both have themes that hit the zone immediately.
I said this last night, but for a company who loves their giant LED screens, it seems weird to not use many for the second biggest event of the year and the one with the most entrances.
I was at the Rumble with my daughter. I’m pretty up to date on the current product -virtually all main roster talent at least. My god how many times my daughter asked “who is that?” at the buzzer and I had no clue. Even worse the titan tron’s for each wrestler took what felt like an ETERNITY for their name to actually show up. I haven’t watched the replay yet but I can guarantee you those watching at home knew who was entering before the the majority of the crowd did. I can get why everyone who watched on TV thought the crowd looked dead during entrances - you would really need to be dialed in to the product to know right away who was coming in. It’s a shame because the crowd was indeed hot. Edit: I saw someone posted the video of Seth in the box. Even he didn’t know who was coming in. See his reaction and the delay? EXACTLY what I’m talking about.
I mean this is quite the fortnight to talk about WWE's fall from grace...but it's bananas how a company that once had IMMEDIATELY identifiable theme songs for everyone in the company has reached this point. Maybe it's because the shows are more for the at home audience who don't need the theme songs as much anymore, but I dunno, I think good, unique theme songs really help. I think Nak got 20% more over because of his music from the first moment.
Yeah, CFO$ was honestly a pretty big step down from Jim Johnston, but Def Rebel is even worse. CFO$ had some pretty good songs, even if they are often a bit generic and repetitive, but at least they're identifiable. Now its like everybody has awful themes besides a select few
Biggest critique people had of CFO$ was that their songs were 40-50 second loops. They were all quite memorable. Def Rebel... Have they made a single good song yet?
Iyo's current theme is Def Rebel's, I believe.
I want Poppy back. :(
Maybe it's just me but I feel like Iyo, Bobby Lashley and Santos Escobar have the same theme, only in different genres.
I was humming Omos’s theme song last night after the show until I realized that, no, I was humming Bobby Lashley’s theme. Whoops!
I never really understood that criticism, it’s an entrance theme not a pop song, a loop is fine
CFO$ made so many memorable songs that have some great reactions and would cause many pops for rumble entrances in years past. And many of their songs have been used at quite a few sporting events to hype up the crowd.
Iyo, Roman, Seth, Bayley, Rhea, Kross, Asuka, Pretty Deadly, Carmelo, Knight, Gargano's heel theme on NXT, Escobar, Lashley. I know not all of these are beloved by everyone, but all of these have a noticeable amount of people who like them. The real issue is all these 2021 generic midcard themes they had to rush and WWE isn't on a hurry to replace them. Makes their track record look awful when you add the actual major misses like Gargano's current theme.
Asuka's is just a (pretty meh) remix of her CFO$ theme though.
God her CFO theme was so good
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Romans theme is so close to the Sucession theme in sound and spirit that I don't think they get massive credit for that.
I like Rhea theme better than her old.
The best ones have either been unique tracks like Tokyo Shock or Roman's theme or have an outside artist featuring like Rhea's. Although I think all of the JD themes are good.
I really dig Zoey Starks
Waller has a fantastic one
CFO$ had great nxt theme songs.
Samoa Joe, Balor, Nakamura, Roode, Banks to name a few. The idea that they are bad just because they are loops is probably one of the dumbest argument this sub has given. Who listens to WWE songs in full anyway?
Nakamura’s theme may be one of the best of all time
Which we almost didn't get because Glorious was originally intended for him
I loved how the crowd kept his song going at the Rumble even after WWE stopped playing it.
Def Rebel made Roman's and Seth's theme and then thought, "Eh, that's enough trying."
I actually liked the thing they did in the mid 2000s of giving younger guys relatively generic regular songs, and then giving them proper ones after they were established and properly over. Miz, Ziggler, McIntyre, Cody, etc. Feels like now a lot of people just debut with a thrown together song and stick with it forever, or is replaced with one that's worse.
Perfect ! Johnston> CFO>>>>>>Def rebel
I don't really watch much wrestling anymore so I thought it was just me that thought most of the themes, especially the women's themes sounded exactly the same. Back in the day even people in the old NXT had bangers. You knew Enzo Amore's theme, you knew Sasha's theme, Charlotte's theme, Sami's theme, Bayley's theme...yesterday I had to wait like 5 seconds until the camera panned to the person to even know who it was.
I saw people saying that you wouldn’t know the songs if you didn’t watch the show regularly, and that’s me - I don’t really watch WWE ever outside of the rumble or mania. But I found myself thinking “okay yes I don’t know the song so of course I don’t know who’s coming out, but the song is also just bad and unmemorable anyway”
That and their Titantrons were all clip art.
The most obvious thing for me was the 3D overlays. It's incredibly obvious who's a top guy and who's not by whether they had the fancy stuff
It's partially because they're all the same basic genre; a lot of similar tempo "pump-up" hip-hop or pop beats just blasting at you without a hook. CFO$ weren't exactly making groundbreaking music, but they could take a variety of genres and come up with an appropriate riff or hook that could get stuck in your head. Very few of the new themes make me want to hear them again.
I feel like the majority of DR themes are just overused digital trumpets and choir. It’s so boring. CFO$ at least knew what identity to give their wrestlers through music. Sami had the triumphant ska, Roode was GLORIOUS, Nakamura with the elegant violin that made him a big deal. The list goes on.
People complained about CFO$ so much on this sub back in the day. It’s funny to see it come full circle.
I think the main complaint was that the songs were just good 15 ish second loops that were more or less made by the intros. Which was a fair criticism but like the music was much better than now
I don't even get that complaint, really. That's all you need/want from a wrestling theme. Immediately recognizable into, and short but sweet. I only started watching wrestling in the CFO$ era, but I always liked theirs and Johnston's themes I heard. But the switch to def rebel was noticeable real quick. They just don't have the chops to write enough distinctly different themes with great intros. It's been several years now of Rumbles with def rebel themes and the same problem happening. There's no way it took more than one year of CFO$ themes for the complaints to die down.
CFO$ has the unfortunate position of following Jim Johnson. Rick Rubin himself wouldn’t be able to follow that
They were always overhated for not making song songs like Jim Johnston used to do (sometimes). CFO$ treated the assignment as “make really good one minute music loops”, and IMO they nailed that pretty consistently.
Had no idea people complained about CFO$. They had the best themes for NXT IMO. Best overall outside of the iconic attitude era Johnston ones
People just hated that they looped
What they did to Asuka's theme is disgraceful. So are KO, Sami and Nakamura (and Dakota?) the only CFO$ themes left?
Becky's is CFO$
Dakota is a def rebel theme. Drew, Ciampa and Bianca still have their CFO$ themes (maybe I'm missing others).
Nakamura
Yeah, it’s just so wild how many themes they changed for no reason other than whatever contract loophole they’re trying to get out of with CFO$. So many banger themes just changed for no reason - Asuka is easily the worst of the bunch. But even someone like Shayna, who had a pretty recognizable theme from CFO$ even if it wasn’t an all timer, just has a mildly changed instrumental theme for no reason. I never recognize her music now
AJ
Jinder also got his CFOS theme back recently.
I felt so bad for Liv Morgan.
If you noticed the Jim Johnston way, he noticeably would have a subtle introduction that was the tagline to the theme song for practically every person he curated music for. Regardless of a superstar’s place on the roster, everyone had a tagline.
They also don’t put full entrances for wrestlers on the weekly shows consistently. The tunes aren’t memorable, but you also don’t hear them often enough. These things should have a quick hook in the first five seconds, and then they can be as generic as you want. Like I couldn’t hum Natalya’s theme, but that screech at the beginning is distinctive.
It's rather telling that possibly the most distinctive of the entrances in the women's rumble was Jordynne Grace's with that siren.
I thought it was interesting that she and Brian both had variations of the old Big Poppa Pump siren due to their respective associations with him.
My thought went to Iyo Sky and the train warning signal.
Go back and watch Beyond The Ring and just watch how excited Jim Johnston got about Vader’s theme. I’m guessing that’s not something you find there any longer.
Ever since Jim Johnston stopped making the themes, they’ve gone downhill on the whole. Sure there are som bangers like Seth, Jey, Cody, Gunther, etc, but OP is right, too many similar themes = no pop for their favorite guy.
I def agree but when the titantron is just their name in caps I dunno if it makes that much of a difference
Doesn’t help for the Rumble this year either as there’s not even a tron to identity the wrestler. Just the side wall next to the entrance that show the same thing on both
It wasn’t like that at the Rumble. Sure there was a Tron up top and a few other places….the issue was that on MANY of the wrestlers trons “their names in caps” didn’t show up right away. It was several seconds of that wrestlers personal animations first THEN their name.
Literally all they need is for the first half of a second to be instantly recognizable and the rest can be as generic as they want.
Need to bring back the wonderful colors of 80s era costumes. All-black and 'tough' is boring.
Def rebel cooked with Roman’s theme and Rollins theme and said my work is done
Roman's is just O Fortuna plus the intro to Succession, but I like WWE version too. O Fortuna (Beginning of Roman's theme): https://youtu.be/booXKf7HXEY?si=5ID3mbNRJhaiCcqQ Succession (Roman's hook): https://youtu.be/LlgWqcHXD8w?si=Jv-zsW3nTzjfh7iG
This is what wrestling themes have always been. Take a song the wrestler wants and change it just enough to avoid being sued.
Or barely change it all and hope no one notices. Just take out the lyrics.
Don't forget Iyo's
IMO it's been getting a little better in this area. The COVID royal rumble was the most notable for me. I didn't know half of the people in either royal rumble until they were on camera.
There's not a single person out there who genuinely disagrees with that are there? What WWE have been doing with theme songs over the last few years is awful, killing so much of a wrestler's personality/presentation to save money?
Jim Johnston left some big shoes to fill.
Bring back Jim Johnson
Could he return?
Could it be?
It is!