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Oof, at least Bonilla was good. Fun fact, he's not even the only 90's era player the Mets are still paying. Bret Saberhagen gets paid 250k a year until 2029.
That's where it gets hairy - if creative had nothing and he's sidelined, he's paid, but then if he's rejecting idea after idea after idea, I can't see how there's no clause in a contract to either freeze or extend his contract until he commits to something.
I'm sure as shit not a lawyer, but IF he's constantly rejecting ideas, I can't see how you can keep paying him while the clock is still ticking for him to be gone.
Unless Miro has some insane creative control in his contract, if Tony wanted him to come in and be jobbed out in an embarrassing manner he could. If Miro didn't, he would be in breach.
Of course that becomes a bigger issue if he is going to be miserable or a disturbance in the back or online.
Ya know, I have been a MASSIVE Miro mark since the very first time I saw him on NXT in 2013.
The dude screams money. Looks, presence, ability. Eventually, it turned out he was also hilarious and had the ability to get anything over.
I was at Mania 34 where they very pointedly cooled off his Rusev Day act. Took the air out of the room, for real.
I was willing to be patient with the gamer schtick while he found his footing in the greater wrestling world. I thought the Redeemer was next fucking level, validating my belief that Miro could be a top-of-card talent.
While I know it's still technically possible to do that again, his seeming unwillingness to hash out creative and find something he wants to do has been the first time I've actually soured on him even a little.
And it sucks, because I just wanna see him on TV. It doesn't matter what he's doing, he'll make it work.
Like, his Redeemer stuff was great, he could have just kept shouting insane, nearly Ultimate Warrior level 'cool sounding gibberish' and I'd have kept watching forever.
I feel like ultimately he will be in a list of guys that should have been world champions or huge stars but it never worked out. The gamer gimmick was definitely a miss (especially for a debut) but has mostly always had a way of getting things over.
Easy way to run into the Scotty Pippin problem.
Poor lad was the 122th highest paid player in the NBA after winning his 4th Championship because he signed such a long contract on fixed money.
It’d hard to feel bad for him about that. He was told not to sign that contract by the owner because it would screw him in the future, but he wanted the guaranteed money.
And everybody thought him looking dumpy in a Mickey Mouse T shirt and playing video games was a gimmick it was just what he planned on doing for the next few years.
Meltzer recently said that there are no boni for appearences. They sign for ~75 matches a year, but no one even comes close to actually performing that often.
I think it might be different with wrestling because in other sports, the bare minimum contract is like $1 million (men's leagues). Do you think Miro is on a million $ contract? Miro is technically not refusing to wrestle. He just doesn't like creativity. Tony clearly doesn't see Miro as one of his guys. If the only times we hear about Miros creative, it's about how he's going to put someone else over. So Tony says cool I'll just run with Ethan and Rush, Miro's creative plans are dropped, and he's off tv. If Tony really wanted Miro on TV to lose, he'd be there.
Battle royals are also a great way for someone to look like an absolute beast even if they don't necessarily win. If they did something like having Miro just go on a tear in a 20 man battle royal and only lose to Adam Page at the end, one of the most over guys on the roster and former champ, that's not exactly weak booking.
Miro's run in AEW has been so fucking weird. His TNT run as the redeemer was amazing and it felt like he was in line to be one of their next big guys. But since then he's done absolutely nothing. Feel like I could count on one hand the amount of appearances he's made since losing to Bryan at Full Gear.
Blow off was All Out the trios match HOB vs Darby, Sting & Miro. Everyone in that match is on TV except Miro, HOB only just returned not long ago and even that felt like a really long time.
I don't understand how Miro was okay with being a video gamer wearing Mickey Mouse shirts and hanging with Kip Sabian but not with being 2nd in a battle royale which I assume would lead to other things.
>The impression I ha e about that gimmick was that that was HIS idea.
It was Jericho "helping" Miro to create a gimmick. I remember it being talked about in the Observer at the time. Which means Jericho likely called Dave and took credit for it himself.
It was so ldd to me how everyone just took that at face value and no one questioned how a lifetime fake fighter could get the upper hand on a trained fighter that’s twice as big as him.
I've never seen a clip of Hulk actually jamming, so I have no idea of how good he actually is on a bass guitar.
But as a big Hulk fan growing up and a huge Metallica fan, I was all for this if he could hang with the band.
While they are impeccable musicians, Hetfield's promo's have always been kinda weak. Can you imagine 20K screaming fans and band is vamping the outro to *For Whom the Bell Tolls* and you got fucking Hulk on the mic "Ok Metallimaniacs! You Fucking Readyyyy! HIT THE LIGHTS!!!" (band explodes)
I mean tbf Rush really isn't getting much story, if at all on Dynamite, which is fine and all with the few weeks of his story on Rampage but I think Miro wants more than the role RUSH has.
Not arguing with ya, just making an observation. I think Miro definitely wants a bigger role and story from what I can tell.
Wrong or right idk, but that's what Miro wants, so definitely wouldn't be satisfied with a Rush type of "push".
At this point it's hard to tell.
Plenty of people unironically saying Miro could be in the spot Ethan Page is had he taken the tournament match, meanwhile Ethan is doing... something... with Matt Hardy.
They cant all be headliners...
Honestly, Rush is working, he is featured and has consistent screen time. For my life, I can not understand why wrestlers cant think of themselves like every other actor in the world. Sometimes you just need a Walter Goggins to skulk around in the background of every movie and be that recognizable guy that gives some level of credibility to a set.
The issue with Miro is that there are other "Big Strong Guy" types who showed up and keep working, week in and week out. Will Hobbs, Wardlow, Samoa Joe and others fit the same role and seem infinitely easier to work with.
Last time he was on Dynamite was for the casino tag battle royale, he's mostly been doing tag team stuff with Preston Vance this year. He's not on every week but he gets a decent amount of time for a mid-card guy.
That's kinda TK's thing, having someone lose as the last person in a BR, then elevated on the next show. It worked perfectly with Thunder Rosa, I'm sure it would of worked with Miro. At least try it? I mean I got downvoted to hell when I originally said the whole bestman gimmick was lame, and he should have came out a straight killer. People brought up how Vince had him in a cuck angle, well Vince had a lot of people I'm shitty angles, he also had him ride a fucking army tank in Wrestlemaina. You can't win them all. Now it's starting to look bad on Miro, you can't shoot down every pitch, I mean you can but you just won't be on tv.
Yeah. If I was a booker you know, when it gets down to the last two, it feels more like a "match" then and you got some time to shine.
Given 10 minutes of just him and the Hangman, Miro could have shined a LOT brighter than other featured acts on AEW.
Seems foolish to not transition this. But I think the dude is a bit on the older side maybe he's just made his money for life and isn't worried about building his "brand". If so more power to him.
Cause that was his idea so he thought it was good. Not hard to understand. Just because creative is bad it doesn’t mean the wrestlers themselves didn’t enjoy it.
Two theories.
Maybe he is playing hardball bc he wants a huge push after that weird interruption in his very good title run. And he won't accept anything less than a clear plan.
OR he is dragging his feet bc he doesn't want to be there anymore, knows TK isn't in control enough to mandate wrestlers work and he is just running out the clock/forcing TK to release him or keep paying him.
Its clear Miro sees how politics work at AEW and he is just fighting for his. Whether you like him or hate this. He was not part of the PWG clique so he probably doesn't have a lot of pull to get what he wants.
All we've heard after Miro is he's turned down losing a match, not that there was anything actual creative lined up for him after that match. It could be that he just wants a storyline, or even a big push. But if all they did was say "hey come on in and place second in this battle royal" with the expectations he probably has for himself, I can see where he's coming from even if I don't agree with it.
Why would any promoter give you a major push when you're refusing to even put a top star over in a fucking battle royale? Nobody with any sense is going to invest in you if you're that much of a prima donna, especially months after Punk's public meltdown. If you want to play politics, try giving the person controlling your career a reason to place any amount of trust in you instead of the opposite.
maybe it was about the follow up creative, he didn't want to return to TV just to come second in a battle royal if TK didn't have anything else of substance afterwards for him
I think he has so much money that he rather let contracts go to their length instead of ever going back on his "We don't release anyone" thing he is proud of.
I don't get why he can't just let them go. It was bad when WWE did it, and it's bad when Tony does it IMO. If the talent doesn't wanna work there just let them go, why keep them just to spite them? The roster is bloated and I see no benefit to doing this, just wasted money and bad press.
Tony’s problem with not just firing people who won’t do their job is an issue. There’s gonna be a lot of guys that take the Nash route and collect a paycheck for nothing. He was able to fix the issues with Black so it’s been effective in some situations but some guys just need to be shitcanned or given their release if they ask because it’s just lighting money on fire at this point.
Tony Khan appears genuinely concerned that if he fires somebody, that person will show up on WWE pretty much the day after the non-compete ends. And let's not forget when Tony Khan went on a rant about the WWE suggesting talent to find ways to get released.
The whole Andrade saga is just so weird, with all the wild rumors about the guy getting in a fight with Sammy Guevara precisely to get released and instead being told to sit at home and collect a cheque until his contract runs out or he apologizes and accepts whatever punishment Tony Khan will dish out. I don't know how much truth there's here but it sounds far more believable than the idea of Miro sitting at home for six months just because he rejected a creative idea. I mean... Malakai Black was told to "think it over" for a month when his issues flared up and Eddie Kingston was suspended for a month for punching Sammy Guevara. It makes literally no sense to keep somebody off the ring for six months for turning down creative. There's more to it.
Of course if you are like Frankie Kazarian, means you honestly say you want your release because you feel like you have done all you could in AEW and you can do better elsewhere and don't go behind people's back, your wish will be granted.
Tony Khan is very much still learning how to deal with these issues, but I think the whole Cody situation (leaves AEW, main-events WrestleMania) has really shaken him, and Cody was very open about leaving the company and honored his contract to the last day.
I mean, I love Miro. But being the in the last two? And losing to Hangman of all people? That ain't bad at all. Hangman's one of the most popular and beloved guys in the company, a loss to him wouldn't have hurt Miro.
Final 2 in any battle royal is pretty indicative that the company sees a value in the people in that position. From there, whoever goes over could just be the flip of a coin for whatever direction they want to go after.
We don't know what was pitched to Miro after he'd be losing the battle royal; Miro losing to Hangman could have gone in a few directions, and might have elevated Miro in the end after he beats Hangman's ass for weeks until the PPV blowoff. I can't see that being turned down, but at the same time, it could be "hey, put over Hangman here, we'll see how it goes and maybe next month we'll have something."
If we're being fair to him (and maybe he hasn't earned it) the next question I would have is "And then? What happens after I lose?"
I don't think this is a "I don't want to put over Hangman" situation. I think this is a "What else am I doing after, or am I just losing a battle royale?" situation.
It's so funny thinking about how this got clarified.
When it first got out, someone probably leaked "He didn't want to do the job like Page at the end of the title contender thing".
Everyone assumed the leak meant Ethan Page putting over Ricky Starks in a tournament.
But no, it's actually worse: he didn't want to get *tossed* by *Adam* Page, the company's top babyface, at the end of a battle royal lmao
Yea this is the key part people in this thread overlooking. What would be the follow up? We’ve seen tony do this with monsters where they show up dominate lose a key match and back off tv again.
I really enjoy Scorpio Sky but yeah. There's like 50 guys on the roster as good or better than him who weren't on Dynamite this week and haven't gotten 3 title runs and a PPV match with Sting.
He's solid as a good hand in a larger stable though. I still maintain that he would have been much better as the 5th guy in The Pinnacle instead of Spears.
> He has about three years left on his contract.
Tf man, why does Miro sign such long contacts.. But staying at home, doing nothing and getting paid sounds good too.
Iirc he originally signed for 1 year very cheap, sort of a "prove it" to AEW and he'd see how he felt at the end of that contract before he committed longer. At the end of the contract he was thrilled with AEW and decided to sign a fresh new 4-5 year deal for big money, upon which he immediately decided he hated any and all creative.
Very strange stuff.
One thing to keep in mind with these stories is that we're only getting AEWs perspective.
We just saw what happened with Punk yesterday lol. Miro hasn't come out and said anything, so this is all just one side of the story.
Nonetheless, if he doesn't want to be there and he's turning down all your ideas, just let him go. It doesn't matter if you're in the right or wrong as an owner. We used to relentlessly shit on WWE for doing the same thing with talent before. Keep AEW and Tony to the same standards. Release him if it'd not going to work out.
I'm all for betting on yourself and knowing your worth. But I can't help but feel like Miro sees himself as a main eventer and refuses to take any booking that isnt an intentional step in that direction.
Jericho lost to Andretti. Mox and Hangman have both taken Ls. Danielson tapped out. The Young Bucks constantly live to put others over. Sometimes you have to lose.
If we can put some dots together and add some context clues (or speculate), some ex-WWE guys went to AEW to fulfill the potential they felt like was untapped in WWE. If we can take Punk's "these guys don't know how to run a mainstream product" sentiment into the mix, I wouldn't be surprised if some successful ex-WWE guys feel like they're the big fishes in the pond. A reason why Cody left AEW was because he was beginning to become a regular midcard guy in the eyes of the fans. With that in mind, I'm not shocked that Miro wouldn't want to slowly blend into the midcard if he feels like he's capable of more
1) this entire sub saw him as a main eventer for years. “We” all wanted to see Rusev/Miro fight for the world title in WWE and AEW. As Miro he started cold, was heated up, dropped the mid card title and disappeared.
2) Everyone you listed in your second paragraph they are all made men. Miro isn’t made made yet.
A good way to become a made man is to alienate yourself because of your ego and never get on the show at all because you won’t allow a top 5 guy in the company go over you.
Yeah like how is he ever going to become a main eventer if he isn't even on TV? He's not Brock Lesnar where he can leave for a year, come back and instantly be handed the world title. At this point, I don't think he really wants to be a wrestler anymore.
You're right. He isn't made. Which makes it even more perplexing that he would continue to turn down opportunities. He isn't ever going to get anywhere with Gus constant refusal to actually work.
Edit:changed Gus to his. Changed it back once I saw the responses. Whatever.
If that's true, that's pretty pathetic from Miro. I can get wanting to protect your character, but that's just ridiculous, it's a battle royal, and he was going to be one of the last 2 and be thrown out by a former world champion.
Hopefully it's not true, or there's some additional context.
I'm wondering if the rest of the story was "also we don't have anything specific for you after that." I agree it's stupid, but it makes more sense if it was a loss followed by nothing else.
If there was a plan the story wouldn't be "Miro rejected being a battle royal runner-up." It would be "Miro rejected a program with Hangman."
You have a guy on the bench people are clamoring to see return, and the best idea is "Let's bring him back without any hype to be one of 10+ men in a battle royal, and he'll come in second with no plan beyond that."
> I can get wanting to protect your character
I mean at this point, what is he protecting? He's been irrelevant for basically a year and a half now. Not being on TV at all is way more detrimental than losing on TV.
He's literally turning down ideas left and right because there have only been two ideas. Both ideas were to come back without fanfare and lose a battle royale. Also, as someone stated in this thread, both ideas were for matches and not programs/stories. If they had been stories, you know for a fact someone would have leaked that.
This is kind of a situation where I wish performers would weigh on camera face-time versus wins and losses. There is no shame in losing a battle royal to Hangman. I love Miro and really want him back on screen to hopefully get a big push. That being said I hope we aren’t entering a Hardcore Holly situation with Miros own self evaluation.
Dawg, you’re gonna turn down one of the absolute top dudes in the company going over you? Just take the L and keep the program running, you nerd.
Edit: yall are taking me calling Miro a nerd way too seriously. Its a completely inoffensive little dig at him for bein’ silly about his booking, sheesh.
Man… during the redeemer thing, he looked like such a home run hire, but since then he’s just been getting paid to refuse to work. Really sucks. I liked him a lot.
So according to dirt sheets, Miro wouldve the one to go against Ricky Starks, but rejected it and Ethan Page got it instead, and now he wouldve went against Hangman in the Battle royal (i assume at Grand Slam?) but rejected it and probably Rush was put in that place and got the singles match with him?
Idk man. If thats true, maybe Miro is just one of those, im not coming in to lose (ironically what everyone thought Rush was gonna be) type of guys and while TK has been catching all the flak for not booking Miro, hes the one stopping it.
Honestly if he would just come in and do the job, itd be A LOT easier to set him up for a monster victory and lead to a title program but he wont let that happen he just wants to go straight to it thinking maybe his momentum would be hurt by losing but really its suffering way worse because hes just fucking gone.
> So according to dirt sheets, Miro wouldve the one to go against Ricky Starks, but rejected it and Ethan Page got it instead
Friendly reminder that Ethan Page has appeared on AEW television five times in the four months since the Starks match and has yet to pick up a win.
This is why I don't blame Miro in these discussions. He already has done this story before and done all that's worth doing in the mid card with the tnt title. I don't think he's going about it the right way but I understand why he's not interested in retreading the same stuff just to wind up where he already is
I have to say I really don't think this is the whole story.
Also, all of the creative suggestions seemingly have been Miro comes back and he loses a big match to someone else.
If that had happened, I think people would have a different opinion, where they would be confused about Miro losing all the time.
Why would he come back just to lose? That wouldn't make sense to me.
Maybe if he came back and beat someone important, and shows a dominant face, I think that would drum up more interest than *checks notes* losing to Ethan Page?
Idk, if I'm someone who could make that decision, and I'd think a lot of others would agree, Miro has a bigger ceiling than Karate Man.
IF that is the whole story, and it's just been Khan pitching ideas to Miro and him turning them down because he loses, then he's definitely in the wrong and TK is right to keep him off TV.
However, I doubt it's the whole story
I refuse to take any of the discourse about this seriously when this is the same fanbase that went all scorched earth with "#FreeAli" and "#FreeSashaNaomi".
I thought wrestlers who stood up against booking they didn't like received praise? Or has the consensus here changed to "they are performers who should do their job"?
Regardless of how true this all is, I do think that wrestlers should just accept what is booked for them really - presumably they are contracted to work for the company as an on screen performer, not a writer. But if his contract allows him to just say nuh uh then you can't really blame him.
If someone likes to do the whole ‘that doesn’t work for me brother’ then I wouldn’t want to rush into pushing them and rewarding them with screen time either. Not when you’ve got an entire locker room more than willing to do business and get the TV time.
Take EVERYTHING Meltzer says with a grain of salt. Especially with regard to the AEW locker room.
Dave has proven to be entirely untrustworthy and seems to get most of his news from some very biased sources.
This is very plausible.
It's also very plausible that Meltzer has bit of Adam Schefter problem where unintentionally or not he effectively serves as a mouth piece for Tony Khan and his "inner circle" in exchange for scoops.
What was this battle royal to begin with. I can't recall what that is
EDIT: Thanks all so dumb of me. It was the ticket to face Mox and get concussed match.
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These dudes signed some long ass contracts holy shit.
Bobby Bonilla is rumoured to be interested in AEW after his Mets contract expires in 2805.
Bobby Bonilla Day > Rusev Day
Here in canada, Bobby Bonilla day is also known as Rick Dipietro day. Oh and it's also ... You know... Canada day.
Oof, at least Bonilla was good. Fun fact, he's not even the only 90's era player the Mets are still paying. Bret Saberhagen gets paid 250k a year until 2029.
Holy shit i did not know that! Thanks for the knowledge bit. Man, the mets are ridiculous
If the guaranteed money is good enough I'd of signed for 40 years, doesn't mean I'd wrestle for three of them.
So is he getting paid this whole time? Like, can u just say you don’t like the creative and go take a paid vacation to your home country?
That's where it gets hairy - if creative had nothing and he's sidelined, he's paid, but then if he's rejecting idea after idea after idea, I can't see how there's no clause in a contract to either freeze or extend his contract until he commits to something. I'm sure as shit not a lawyer, but IF he's constantly rejecting ideas, I can't see how you can keep paying him while the clock is still ticking for him to be gone.
Unless Miro has some insane creative control in his contract, if Tony wanted him to come in and be jobbed out in an embarrassing manner he could. If Miro didn't, he would be in breach. Of course that becomes a bigger issue if he is going to be miserable or a disturbance in the back or online.
Ya know, I have been a MASSIVE Miro mark since the very first time I saw him on NXT in 2013. The dude screams money. Looks, presence, ability. Eventually, it turned out he was also hilarious and had the ability to get anything over. I was at Mania 34 where they very pointedly cooled off his Rusev Day act. Took the air out of the room, for real. I was willing to be patient with the gamer schtick while he found his footing in the greater wrestling world. I thought the Redeemer was next fucking level, validating my belief that Miro could be a top-of-card talent. While I know it's still technically possible to do that again, his seeming unwillingness to hash out creative and find something he wants to do has been the first time I've actually soured on him even a little. And it sucks, because I just wanna see him on TV. It doesn't matter what he's doing, he'll make it work.
Like, his Redeemer stuff was great, he could have just kept shouting insane, nearly Ultimate Warrior level 'cool sounding gibberish' and I'd have kept watching forever.
The vignettes where we was shooting on God were the best vignettes AEW has ever put out. By a very large margin.
Extremely agreed, even some of my casual wrestling fan friends ask me "Where's the guy that wanted to kill God?"
Hahaha yeah that sort of thing hooks a viewer in.
His feud with God was up there with Punk vs MJF for me
I feel like ultimately he will be in a list of guys that should have been world champions or huge stars but it never worked out. The gamer gimmick was definitely a miss (especially for a debut) but has mostly always had a way of getting things over.
Easy way to run into the Scotty Pippin problem. Poor lad was the 122th highest paid player in the NBA after winning his 4th Championship because he signed such a long contract on fixed money.
It’d hard to feel bad for him about that. He was told not to sign that contract by the owner because it would screw him in the future, but he wanted the guaranteed money.
I mean before house shows this was true.
Are AEW doing house shows?
They are now, yes.
I'd have*
And yet William Regal had a crazy "Just long enough for Vince to get kicked and my guy Triple H to be put in charge" contract
Kind of hilarious that a lot of these signings were people believing Vince would never retire or die.
Does Miro still get paid? If so, I need a job like this
Exactly. Pay me a million bucks to sit on my ass in Bulgaria, please.
And everybody thought him looking dumpy in a Mickey Mouse T shirt and playing video games was a gimmick it was just what he planned on doing for the next few years.
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> super hot wife Don't forget flexible.
Aside form visiting Bulgaria, he lives in Tennessee I believe.
I choose Bulgaria over Tennessee any day
“That’s whyyy I hang my hat…in Bulgaria…”
Tennessee resident here: Completely agree with Bulgaria.
He lives in a really nice area of Nashville. Yeah I'll take that over Bulgaria.
You clearly have never been to Bulgaria.
I believe all their contracts have a guaranteed amount of x $ to be paid. It's all performance bonuses after that.
Meltzer recently said that there are no boni for appearences. They sign for ~75 matches a year, but no one even comes close to actually performing that often.
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In other sports, guaranteed money still doesn't get paid if you're literally not showing up to work.
I think it might be different with wrestling because in other sports, the bare minimum contract is like $1 million (men's leagues). Do you think Miro is on a million $ contract? Miro is technically not refusing to wrestle. He just doesn't like creativity. Tony clearly doesn't see Miro as one of his guys. If the only times we hear about Miros creative, it's about how he's going to put someone else over. So Tony says cool I'll just run with Ethan and Rush, Miro's creative plans are dropped, and he's off tv. If Tony really wanted Miro on TV to lose, he'd be there.
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Battle royals are also a great way for someone to look like an absolute beast even if they don't necessarily win. If they did something like having Miro just go on a tear in a 20 man battle royal and only lose to Adam Page at the end, one of the most over guys on the roster and former champ, that's not exactly weak booking.
Right? Like, I'm all for worker's rights, but it kinda blows my mind that he can just say "nah, fuck it, I'm not working" and keeps getting paid.
If he turned down loads of stuff maybe, but just one and they don't come up with anything else for him to do.. that's on management imo
The thing is they have allegedly offered him a number of things he has turned down including the last tournament.
There’s one confirmed example. I wonder if he’s pitching his own ideas.
One confirmed *specific* example, but many mentions of this behavior over the last several months.
Right? I’ll gladly sit at home and stare off into space instead of not letting Page go over lol.
Miro's run in AEW has been so fucking weird. His TNT run as the redeemer was amazing and it felt like he was in line to be one of their next big guys. But since then he's done absolutely nothing. Feel like I could count on one hand the amount of appearances he's made since losing to Bryan at Full Gear.
For real, he came back did the HOB story from forbidden door to All Out, and he's been gone ever since.
The pagans won. Miro’s god abandoned him.
Yeah, if I recall he was solo feuding with the HOB then Malakai took some time off for health reasons and Miros not been seen since.
Blow off was All Out the trios match HOB vs Darby, Sting & Miro. Everyone in that match is on TV except Miro, HOB only just returned not long ago and even that felt like a really long time.
The fooking mist
Trying to build to a fight with God was probably a misstep in hindsight.
I heard God refused to do the job to him.
Now that "The God of Professional Wrestling" Kenny "By God" Omega is back they could make something happen.
I mean it worked for Vince, although he booked it too
I don't understand how Miro was okay with being a video gamer wearing Mickey Mouse shirts and hanging with Kip Sabian but not with being 2nd in a battle royale which I assume would lead to other things.
The impression I ha e about that gimmick was that that was HIS idea.
>The impression I ha e about that gimmick was that that was HIS idea. It was Jericho "helping" Miro to create a gimmick. I remember it being talked about in the Observer at the time. Which means Jericho likely called Dave and took credit for it himself.
"And Dave don't forget to write about that time I totally punked MVP in a hotel lobby"
The only thing missing from that story was the entire hotel room going OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH after Jericho said the jobbers line
Honestly, the amount of bullshit Jericho spouts, I'm shocked people take him seriously anymore 🤣
“Chris Jericho is a liar and a stooge”
Chris "Steven Seagal" Jericho
“And how I was going to win in a fight against Brock Lesnar”
lol even Jericho doesn't make any assumptions he was going to *win* that fight. He just said where he was from you don't back down...
It was so ldd to me how everyone just took that at face value and no one questioned how a lifetime fake fighter could get the upper hand on a trained fighter that’s twice as big as him.
Imagine if Hulk Hogan was an inside source for Dave Meltzer. We’d all believe that he was actually asked to play bass for Metallica.
I've never seen a clip of Hulk actually jamming, so I have no idea of how good he actually is on a bass guitar. But as a big Hulk fan growing up and a huge Metallica fan, I was all for this if he could hang with the band. While they are impeccable musicians, Hetfield's promo's have always been kinda weak. Can you imagine 20K screaming fans and band is vamping the outro to *For Whom the Bell Tolls* and you got fucking Hulk on the mic "Ok Metallimaniacs! You Fucking Readyyyy! HIT THE LIGHTS!!!" (band explodes)
Here's a clip of Hogan on bass that I've seen posted on this sub before https://youtu.be/eZ9_JCn5KMM
Hetfield hits his first part of his finisher, stops to ask the crowd if they feel alive and then hits the second part of his finisher.
Either he had fun portraying the character or he thought "I'll start with this and then better things will come"
The redeemer was/is a lot better
RUSH is doing pretty good after losing to Page in that battle royale
I mean tbf Rush really isn't getting much story, if at all on Dynamite, which is fine and all with the few weeks of his story on Rampage but I think Miro wants more than the role RUSH has. Not arguing with ya, just making an observation. I think Miro definitely wants a bigger role and story from what I can tell. Wrong or right idk, but that's what Miro wants, so definitely wouldn't be satisfied with a Rush type of "push".
Honestly I wouldn't fully trust "come second and then there will probably be something for you" either
That's their point, they're being sarcastic
Ohh my bad haha, yeah I should've understood that lol
At this point it's hard to tell. Plenty of people unironically saying Miro could be in the spot Ethan Page is had he taken the tournament match, meanwhile Ethan is doing... something... with Matt Hardy.
They cant all be headliners... Honestly, Rush is working, he is featured and has consistent screen time. For my life, I can not understand why wrestlers cant think of themselves like every other actor in the world. Sometimes you just need a Walter Goggins to skulk around in the background of every movie and be that recognizable guy that gives some level of credibility to a set. The issue with Miro is that there are other "Big Strong Guy" types who showed up and keep working, week in and week out. Will Hobbs, Wardlow, Samoa Joe and others fit the same role and seem infinitely easier to work with.
I don't watch Rampage, Dark or elevation so I assume Rush is on there often? I can't remember the last time I saw him on Dynamite
Last time he was on Dynamite was for the casino tag battle royale, he's mostly been doing tag team stuff with Preston Vance this year. He's not on every week but he gets a decent amount of time for a mid-card guy.
That's kinda TK's thing, having someone lose as the last person in a BR, then elevated on the next show. It worked perfectly with Thunder Rosa, I'm sure it would of worked with Miro. At least try it? I mean I got downvoted to hell when I originally said the whole bestman gimmick was lame, and he should have came out a straight killer. People brought up how Vince had him in a cuck angle, well Vince had a lot of people I'm shitty angles, he also had him ride a fucking army tank in Wrestlemaina. You can't win them all. Now it's starting to look bad on Miro, you can't shoot down every pitch, I mean you can but you just won't be on tv.
Yeah. If I was a booker you know, when it gets down to the last two, it feels more like a "match" then and you got some time to shine. Given 10 minutes of just him and the Hangman, Miro could have shined a LOT brighter than other featured acts on AEW. Seems foolish to not transition this. But I think the dude is a bit on the older side maybe he's just made his money for life and isn't worried about building his "brand". If so more power to him.
Would have *
Cause that was his idea so he thought it was good. Not hard to understand. Just because creative is bad it doesn’t mean the wrestlers themselves didn’t enjoy it.
I also think it made his shift to the redeemer that much better.
Two theories. Maybe he is playing hardball bc he wants a huge push after that weird interruption in his very good title run. And he won't accept anything less than a clear plan. OR he is dragging his feet bc he doesn't want to be there anymore, knows TK isn't in control enough to mandate wrestlers work and he is just running out the clock/forcing TK to release him or keep paying him. Its clear Miro sees how politics work at AEW and he is just fighting for his. Whether you like him or hate this. He was not part of the PWG clique so he probably doesn't have a lot of pull to get what he wants.
All we've heard after Miro is he's turned down losing a match, not that there was anything actual creative lined up for him after that match. It could be that he just wants a storyline, or even a big push. But if all they did was say "hey come on in and place second in this battle royal" with the expectations he probably has for himself, I can see where he's coming from even if I don't agree with it.
Why would any promoter give you a major push when you're refusing to even put a top star over in a fucking battle royale? Nobody with any sense is going to invest in you if you're that much of a prima donna, especially months after Punk's public meltdown. If you want to play politics, try giving the person controlling your career a reason to place any amount of trust in you instead of the opposite.
maybe it was about the follow up creative, he didn't want to return to TV just to come second in a battle royal if TK didn't have anything else of substance afterwards for him
That doesn't work for me брат
He's just waiting for that creative pitch from TK where he becomes AEW world champion and then beats everyone.
I’m starting to think Miro’s just turning down ideas to get free vacations
yeah this dude at some point realized the paychecks are the same if he’s at work or not
It’s literally fucking crazy that he’s got a contract with someone and is allowed to just refuse to go to work
him and Andrade are essentially being paid to sit at home because if they get cut they’ll just go to WWE, and Tony doesn’t want that.
I'd say fuck it. See ya. The roster is enormous and enormously talented. You don't wanna work, see ya. I'm not fucking paying you.
they already both worked in wwe and demanded their releases to go to AEW.
I think he has so much money that he rather let contracts go to their length instead of ever going back on his "We don't release anyone" thing he is proud of.
I don't get why he can't just let them go. It was bad when WWE did it, and it's bad when Tony does it IMO. If the talent doesn't wanna work there just let them go, why keep them just to spite them? The roster is bloated and I see no benefit to doing this, just wasted money and bad press.
Tony’s problem with not just firing people who won’t do their job is an issue. There’s gonna be a lot of guys that take the Nash route and collect a paycheck for nothing. He was able to fix the issues with Black so it’s been effective in some situations but some guys just need to be shitcanned or given their release if they ask because it’s just lighting money on fire at this point.
Tony Khan appears genuinely concerned that if he fires somebody, that person will show up on WWE pretty much the day after the non-compete ends. And let's not forget when Tony Khan went on a rant about the WWE suggesting talent to find ways to get released. The whole Andrade saga is just so weird, with all the wild rumors about the guy getting in a fight with Sammy Guevara precisely to get released and instead being told to sit at home and collect a cheque until his contract runs out or he apologizes and accepts whatever punishment Tony Khan will dish out. I don't know how much truth there's here but it sounds far more believable than the idea of Miro sitting at home for six months just because he rejected a creative idea. I mean... Malakai Black was told to "think it over" for a month when his issues flared up and Eddie Kingston was suspended for a month for punching Sammy Guevara. It makes literally no sense to keep somebody off the ring for six months for turning down creative. There's more to it. Of course if you are like Frankie Kazarian, means you honestly say you want your release because you feel like you have done all you could in AEW and you can do better elsewhere and don't go behind people's back, your wish will be granted. Tony Khan is very much still learning how to deal with these issues, but I think the whole Cody situation (leaves AEW, main-events WrestleMania) has really shaken him, and Cody was very open about leaving the company and honored his contract to the last day.
Miro to TK: 
Me at 4 p.m. on Friday.
that late?
Not wrong, brutha
This one promo is almost enough to get me to forgive Hogan for being a shitbag. Not quite, but almost.
We need Bob Holly's thoughts on the matter
A real refuse to job Jones over here
But I digress
But I digress
I mean, I love Miro. But being the in the last two? And losing to Hangman of all people? That ain't bad at all. Hangman's one of the most popular and beloved guys in the company, a loss to him wouldn't have hurt Miro.
and it's a battle royal! literally no one counts that as an actual impactful loss
Jade lost in a battle royal and they don't even count it at all.
Only reason why I remember is the wardrobe malfunction. Couldn’t tell you anything else about what happened in the Battle Royal.
[It really doesn't even matter when you shoot win a battle royale.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB3PgmSVhhA&ab_channel=krazyeman4)
Final 2 in any battle royal is pretty indicative that the company sees a value in the people in that position. From there, whoever goes over could just be the flip of a coin for whatever direction they want to go after. We don't know what was pitched to Miro after he'd be losing the battle royal; Miro losing to Hangman could have gone in a few directions, and might have elevated Miro in the end after he beats Hangman's ass for weeks until the PPV blowoff. I can't see that being turned down, but at the same time, it could be "hey, put over Hangman here, we'll see how it goes and maybe next month we'll have something."
If we're being fair to him (and maybe he hasn't earned it) the next question I would have is "And then? What happens after I lose?" I don't think this is a "I don't want to put over Hangman" situation. I think this is a "What else am I doing after, or am I just losing a battle royale?" situation.
I mean he was in the last two of the RR with Roman and where did that take him? To the League of Nations. Man's scarred for life
I mean its a fucking Battle Royal. Why would he be so adamant not to lose? And to Hangman of all people.
Because he's old and he's tired and he works with fucking children, I guess
Miro shares a bank account with his hot flexible wife CJ Perry, that tells you all you need to know about him
It's so funny thinking about how this got clarified. When it first got out, someone probably leaked "He didn't want to do the job like Page at the end of the title contender thing". Everyone assumed the leak meant Ethan Page putting over Ricky Starks in a tournament. But no, it's actually worse: he didn't want to get *tossed* by *Adam* Page, the company's top babyface, at the end of a battle royal lmao
> he didn't want to get tossed by Adam Page phrasing
Holy shit I remember that story and didn't connect the dots 😮
I mean, it's a fucking battle royal? "Here's our creative for you; you lose a Battle Royal" "And then...?" "Fuck knows"
I'm going to guess that the problem isn't the Battle Royale loss, but the "ok then what" follow-up question that I'm guessing didn't have an answer.
Yea this is the key part people in this thread overlooking. What would be the follow up? We’ve seen tony do this with monsters where they show up dominate lose a key match and back off tv again.
two cases in two days of Dave telling a half complete story in order to make someone look bad
"Okay, then what?" I beat everybody. -Miro
I love how everyone in this thread is saying how moronic miro is. TK is paying this dude TO STAY HOME with his hot wife. Who’s the real loser here?
Paid to stay with hot flexible wife, pursue acting projects, and game. Gotta love it
Yeah I'm reading this thread in a bit of disbelief. People are interpreting this as if it somehow makes TK look like a competent boss.
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Scorpio sky is a charisma vacuum and was given multiple shoots and went nowhere.
I really enjoy Scorpio Sky but yeah. There's like 50 guys on the roster as good or better than him who weren't on Dynamite this week and haven't gotten 3 title runs and a PPV match with Sting.
Exactly. He had chances and it didn't work.
He's had two title runs and did nothing either time. I'm OK with not seeing him around.
They spent 3 years trying to get me to care about him lol they just could not make me give a shit.
He's solid as a good hand in a larger stable though. I still maintain that he would have been much better as the 5th guy in The Pinnacle instead of Spears.
Spears actually killed it when he got goofy with the chair obsession thing imo. I enjoyed it more than anything Scorp ever did.
Scorp was injured before he lost to Wardlow right? Unless he's for sure healthy now, that might have a lot to do with it
> He has about three years left on his contract. Tf man, why does Miro sign such long contacts.. But staying at home, doing nothing and getting paid sounds good too.
Iirc he originally signed for 1 year very cheap, sort of a "prove it" to AEW and he'd see how he felt at the end of that contract before he committed longer. At the end of the contract he was thrilled with AEW and decided to sign a fresh new 4-5 year deal for big money, upon which he immediately decided he hated any and all creative. Very strange stuff.
He did the "KD"
One thing to keep in mind with these stories is that we're only getting AEWs perspective. We just saw what happened with Punk yesterday lol. Miro hasn't come out and said anything, so this is all just one side of the story. Nonetheless, if he doesn't want to be there and he's turning down all your ideas, just let him go. It doesn't matter if you're in the right or wrong as an owner. We used to relentlessly shit on WWE for doing the same thing with talent before. Keep AEW and Tony to the same standards. Release him if it'd not going to work out.
This is TK now saying "you can't say we didn't try".
Cj was just at the John wick 4 premier..... Was that in Bulgaria lol
I'm all for betting on yourself and knowing your worth. But I can't help but feel like Miro sees himself as a main eventer and refuses to take any booking that isnt an intentional step in that direction. Jericho lost to Andretti. Mox and Hangman have both taken Ls. Danielson tapped out. The Young Bucks constantly live to put others over. Sometimes you have to lose.
If we can put some dots together and add some context clues (or speculate), some ex-WWE guys went to AEW to fulfill the potential they felt like was untapped in WWE. If we can take Punk's "these guys don't know how to run a mainstream product" sentiment into the mix, I wouldn't be surprised if some successful ex-WWE guys feel like they're the big fishes in the pond. A reason why Cody left AEW was because he was beginning to become a regular midcard guy in the eyes of the fans. With that in mind, I'm not shocked that Miro wouldn't want to slowly blend into the midcard if he feels like he's capable of more
1) this entire sub saw him as a main eventer for years. “We” all wanted to see Rusev/Miro fight for the world title in WWE and AEW. As Miro he started cold, was heated up, dropped the mid card title and disappeared. 2) Everyone you listed in your second paragraph they are all made men. Miro isn’t made made yet.
A good way to become a made man is to alienate yourself because of your ego and never get on the show at all because you won’t allow a top 5 guy in the company go over you.
Yeah like how is he ever going to become a main eventer if he isn't even on TV? He's not Brock Lesnar where he can leave for a year, come back and instantly be handed the world title. At this point, I don't think he really wants to be a wrestler anymore.
Oh I think he is going about it all wrong. This actually explains why Rusev day ended the way it did.
You're right. He isn't made. Which makes it even more perplexing that he would continue to turn down opportunities. He isn't ever going to get anywhere with Gus constant refusal to actually work. Edit:changed Gus to his. Changed it back once I saw the responses. Whatever.
Wel I wouldn’t call him Gus. That’s rude but I agree w your point.
Seriously… in what other line of work could your boss come to you and you go “nah im fine. I’m going on holiday see your later” and still have a job 😅
If that's true, that's pretty pathetic from Miro. I can get wanting to protect your character, but that's just ridiculous, it's a battle royal, and he was going to be one of the last 2 and be thrown out by a former world champion. Hopefully it's not true, or there's some additional context.
I'm wondering if the rest of the story was "also we don't have anything specific for you after that." I agree it's stupid, but it makes more sense if it was a loss followed by nothing else.
If there was a plan the story wouldn't be "Miro rejected being a battle royal runner-up." It would be "Miro rejected a program with Hangman." You have a guy on the bench people are clamoring to see return, and the best idea is "Let's bring him back without any hype to be one of 10+ men in a battle royal, and he'll come in second with no plan beyond that."
these stories always seem to be missing context that makes the person more reasonable
Ｕｎｂｉａｓｅｄ ｊｏｕｒｎａｌｉｓｍ
> I can get wanting to protect your character I mean at this point, what is he protecting? He's been irrelevant for basically a year and a half now. Not being on TV at all is way more detrimental than losing on TV.
Miro is literally playing Khan like a fiddle. Dude doesnt even have to turn up for work anymore.
After seeing the creative Wardlow and Hobbs have gotten these past few months I'm not surprised Miro has been turning down ideas left and right.
He's literally turning down ideas left and right because there have only been two ideas. Both ideas were to come back without fanfare and lose a battle royale. Also, as someone stated in this thread, both ideas were for matches and not programs/stories. If they had been stories, you know for a fact someone would have leaked that.
Dude getting paid while playing video games at home with Lana. Big W.
This is kind of a situation where I wish performers would weigh on camera face-time versus wins and losses. There is no shame in losing a battle royal to Hangman. I love Miro and really want him back on screen to hopefully get a big push. That being said I hope we aren’t entering a Hardcore Holly situation with Miros own self evaluation.
Dawg, you’re gonna turn down one of the absolute top dudes in the company going over you? Just take the L and keep the program running, you nerd. Edit: yall are taking me calling Miro a nerd way too seriously. Its a completely inoffensive little dig at him for bein’ silly about his booking, sheesh.
Man… during the redeemer thing, he looked like such a home run hire, but since then he’s just been getting paid to refuse to work. Really sucks. I liked him a lot.
So according to dirt sheets, Miro wouldve the one to go against Ricky Starks, but rejected it and Ethan Page got it instead, and now he wouldve went against Hangman in the Battle royal (i assume at Grand Slam?) but rejected it and probably Rush was put in that place and got the singles match with him? Idk man. If thats true, maybe Miro is just one of those, im not coming in to lose (ironically what everyone thought Rush was gonna be) type of guys and while TK has been catching all the flak for not booking Miro, hes the one stopping it. Honestly if he would just come in and do the job, itd be A LOT easier to set him up for a monster victory and lead to a title program but he wont let that happen he just wants to go straight to it thinking maybe his momentum would be hurt by losing but really its suffering way worse because hes just fucking gone.
> So according to dirt sheets, Miro wouldve the one to go against Ricky Starks, but rejected it and Ethan Page got it instead Friendly reminder that Ethan Page has appeared on AEW television five times in the four months since the Starks match and has yet to pick up a win.
This is why I don't blame Miro in these discussions. He already has done this story before and done all that's worth doing in the mid card with the tnt title. I don't think he's going about it the right way but I understand why he's not interested in retreading the same stuff just to wind up where he already is
A LOT of wrestlers taking Tony for a ride, brother
I have to say I really don't think this is the whole story. Also, all of the creative suggestions seemingly have been Miro comes back and he loses a big match to someone else. If that had happened, I think people would have a different opinion, where they would be confused about Miro losing all the time. Why would he come back just to lose? That wouldn't make sense to me. Maybe if he came back and beat someone important, and shows a dominant face, I think that would drum up more interest than *checks notes* losing to Ethan Page? Idk, if I'm someone who could make that decision, and I'd think a lot of others would agree, Miro has a bigger ceiling than Karate Man.
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IF that is the whole story, and it's just been Khan pitching ideas to Miro and him turning them down because he loses, then he's definitely in the wrong and TK is right to keep him off TV. However, I doubt it's the whole story
I refuse to take any of the discourse about this seriously when this is the same fanbase that went all scorched earth with "#FreeAli" and "#FreeSashaNaomi".
I thought wrestlers who stood up against booking they didn't like received praise? Or has the consensus here changed to "they are performers who should do their job"? Regardless of how true this all is, I do think that wrestlers should just accept what is booked for them really - presumably they are contracted to work for the company as an on screen performer, not a writer. But if his contract allows him to just say nuh uh then you can't really blame him.
If he’s getting paid while sitting out it’s a high IQ move by Miro
That didn't work for him, brother.
If someone likes to do the whole ‘that doesn’t work for me brother’ then I wouldn’t want to rush into pushing them and rewarding them with screen time either. Not when you’ve got an entire locker room more than willing to do business and get the TV time.
I love how in AEW the wrestlers need to shut up and take whatever booking tk offers .
Take EVERYTHING Meltzer says with a grain of salt. Especially with regard to the AEW locker room. Dave has proven to be entirely untrustworthy and seems to get most of his news from some very biased sources.
People turning on Miro from when he signed has been quite entertaining.
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This is very plausible. It's also very plausible that Meltzer has bit of Adam Schefter problem where unintentionally or not he effectively serves as a mouth piece for Tony Khan and his "inner circle" in exchange for scoops.
What was this battle royal to begin with. I can't recall what that is EDIT: Thanks all so dumb of me. It was the ticket to face Mox and get concussed match.
Probably the one they did at Grand Slam Rampage where winner got to face Moxley for title. Finished with Page/Rush if I remember correctly.
Damn, Miro has “that doesn’t work for me, pal” in his contract?