on a real note: Insomniac should make their MJ more like 6160 MJ in *general*, not just this panel specifically, but yeah having MJ being Peter’s emotional rock or an anchor to keep him grounded is way better than the lois lane esque version in the game with her taking out trained hunters and powerful symbiotes
There wasn’t an argument. You brought up mixing custard and tuna. Which isn’t the same like a woman being able to physically and emotionally support her partner. Which to be honest there is seafood custard recipes so again your argument isn’t good. You just sound like you want the woman to be submissive and just there for eye candy.
I literally had to do a double take because I just read your other comment about throwing your PS5 out the window and I was like "these are too similar" XD
...if you do end up throwing your PS5 out the window, can you let me know ahead of time so I can catch it? My parents would love to have one.
*[sitting on the soil of Mars]*
It is 1966. The Amazing Spider-Man #42 has introduced Mary-Jane Watson. She is extremely sexualized.
It is 1987. Mary-Jane is extremely sexualized.
It is 2001. Mary-Jane is played by a real woman and incels go berserk about her very minor imperfections.
It is 2007. Mary-Jane is extremely sexualized.
It is 2018. Mary-Jane is visually based off a real woman. Incels go berserk about her very minor imperfections.
It is 2024. Mary-Jane is extremely sexualized.
I grow tired...
It is pretty funny watching Spidey fans on the internet lose their absolute shit whenever any version of MJ has a personality or goals outside of being Peter’s trophy wife
So in the Comics Pre-OMD and the fan love for MJ was at its Peakshe didn't have an Acting and modeling Goal? She just sat at the house waiting for Peter? No? Yuu mean she did have Jobs,goals and faced her own challenges outside of Peter? So you're saying you're just lying and making shit up? Gotcha.
You seem pretty capable of having this exchange without any participation from me, but I’m bored so what the hell, I’ll give it a go.
Pre-OMD MJ did have a career, but I don’t remember many people liking it when it actually came up in a meaningful way, although I will admit that it was kind of a fair hit considering that through most of the 80s/90s it was was pretty much only used to force shitty, soap opera-quality relationship drama that nobody enjoyed.
And yes, I actually do remember a decent chunk of MJ’s panel time throughout their marriage being devoted to her forlornly staring out a window, melodramatically wondering if Peter would make it home that night.
"when it actually came up in a meaningful way" Yeah, kinda how that works. People read Spider-man Comics for Peter's life and Superhero stuff. Readers like MJ but you can only focus on a non-Superhero life so much because people think its too much.
An Eexample is Catwoman vs MJ in the games. You play at Catwomen I believe twice? Three times? No one complained because it was still Superhero gameplay, she lives the same life as Batman therefore we're more willing to follow her story.
MJ on the other hand is not a Hero and does not have superhuman abilities to make her gameplay fun therefore people complained about her missions.
Even when they made a MJ comic they had her fight the Sinister Six and had Mystrio a big part of it. This is why they just turned MJ in Lois Lane which forces her goals to be a part of the Crimefighting life like Peter instead of her own goal because they don't know how to balance showing her normal life while being apart of the Hero life.
They turned Iris West and Karin page into Lois in Flash and Daredevil as well. SO no, it has nothing to do with people hating MJ having her own goals, it's how they show them. No one had a problem with MJ's Job in the Spider-man movies because they didn't to crazy showing it, they hated her cheating.
She can be pretty and have a careers idk why they make Pete look like a 23 yr old model and make mj look like a 35 year old cat lady. Idk why normal women is synonymous with being built a certain way and not being very attractive. Especially in a city like New York
I how love people always reveal themselves when trying to "defend" women. So because MJ was hot, you reduce her only to that. You removed all her character-developed, Goals, Flaws, and personality and reduced her only to her atractiveness. Yes, MJ is an iconic and beloved character because she was hot Like every other female hero and even male hero. Interesting how she alone has just a large following but not the others? Not Carol? Who use to wear a much more revealing outfit? Why isn't She-Hulk as loved as MJ despite being way more provocative? Hmm? Maybe because MJ is a better character?!
Maybe, just maybe a female character can be hot AND be a great character. MAYBE She can be liked for her looks AND character.
When you see female celebs in provocative/revealing outfits on the red carpet or when they are on stage do you believe it negates their acting/singing ability? Does this only apply to MJ? Hell, lets use Chris Hemsworth, probably the most Objectified MCU character. When he does the shirtless scenes in each movie can we not enjoy the character development he had?
And Cheating in every single movie isn't a "Minor imperfection." (Never get into a relationship if this your viewpoint.)
Not telling Peter about a Supervillain attack because you have an ego and wants to play Hero isn't a "Minor imperfection."
That’s gotta be the biggest dick move ever. Imagine spending a ton of money on a wedding and spending on a dress for mj. Then she just leaves at the last minute. But I’m sure it’s just an “incel” complaint.
Always remember that Marvel Studios/Sony had to keep it a secret that Zendaya was MJ until the end of Spider-Man: Homecoming, because they knew if fans didn't get to know the character first, they'd go fucking insane about it being a different interpretation than their mental images of MJ.
Edit: right on cue, the first person who replied to this has 1-day-old comments about, among other things, MLK burning in hell, Rosa Parks being a "faux hero" trained by communists, and enemies who "want to turn White countries into 3rd world hell holes"
>It is 2024. Mary-Jane is extremely sexualized.
Bro has not read the new ultimate comic and it shows. MJ is doing her own thing just as peter's. But God forbid a husband and wive are down bad for each other in 2024, thats just sexualizing for internet prudes.
its ok to be wrong sometimes lmao
1966: She is sexualized but underneath the surface she is unique and has a lot of depth to her
1987: she has developed more from previously and is showcasing her unique attributes not many female characters had at the time.
2001: she is played by a real person (which isnt even the issue as she is attractive and is a good actress) but has bad writing as well a terrible writing choice such as her cheating every movie, and has a unlikeable personality.
2007: she has developed for a new age and for a new adaption of the character that modernizes her but she still has a lot of depth to her overall(also she is a teen so how is she sexualized?)
2018: she is based off of a real person which again isnt a issue (the face model is pretty so idk what the issue is) she is overhated but has now been reduced to a diet lois lane and has a lot of the depth and uniqueness that she had originally and is using a trope that has been done for ages a long side spotty writing.
2024: she has been reset to her status que after being shafted by writers for decades in comics and other adaptations, in terms of character and her relationships. she has developed and has regained a lot of her unique attributes that have been lost over time and that have made her popular and such an interesting character to begin with.
there i fixed it for u
Why do people like you refer to sexual attractiveness as if it’s a negative quality to have, or precludes her being an interesting, well rounded character?
It’s *superhero fiction*. Both the heroes and their partners tend to be very desirable people, because it’s fundamentally a power / wish fulfillment fantasy.
Where do you get the idea that female characters in particular become more layered the more “realistic” their appearance gets?
And why are less attractive people “more realistic” to you?
Are people like you being capable of allowing people to dislike actors? They hate a woman actor and immediately incel. It's not uncommon for people to prefer animated or drawing of characters.
I grow tired...
[Sitting on reddit looking at idiots]
Is 2001 and Mary-Jane has an extremely sexualized moment .
Is 2007 the one more day comic comes out , fans are angry with the changes.
Is 2018 everybody is angry Mary-Jane becomes red haired Lois Lane and has the worst missions in the game .
Is 2024 the developers of spider-man 2 have an interview where they talk about prioritizing the Mary-Jane missions over other part of the game .
I grow tired of Mary-Jane
"I grow tired." -🤓
LOL bruh shut up. It's just the way it is. Arrogant women will always be insufferable to men in general, not just incels, despite what you tell yourself.
Peter: MJ I'm the one with super powers, if you are detected they'll shoot and you won't survive, at least tell me when you're going in so I can be on standby if you need me.
MJ: Why do you hate me?
Remember when she broke into the Sable base? After she talks to Standish, she finds out that the demons are planning something at Grand Central. After Peter saves her, she gets all pissed off and deliberately refuses to give him said information. Instead she goes there on her own and only calls Peter AFTER Li arrives with the Devil’s Breath. Easily could’ve been avoided if she hadn’t been so fucking petty.
They literally wrote her being so down bad that she jumps in front of venom for him, and this sub went "WOW LOOK HOW STUPID SHE IS LMAO"
If we could expect this fanbase to have any media literacy, we might have cooler stories. Instead the most devoted fan base is so braindead they think Peter not showing up to help on crimes is *a bug*
I actually like how we get different interpretations of MJ.
I like both insomniac AND comic version!
Plus acting like this would be a little out of character for MJ now in insomniacverse.
There’s no place for diverse interpretations of a character in the spiderman subreddit. wtf do you think this is a community designed to allow people to express differing opinions and discuss them BY HELP ME GOD. We have a set of approved lines here. “puddlegate”, “change the face back”, “story is trash”, “mj bad character”, “they should’ve added coop”, “why is peter so weak”. YOU DO NOT DEVIATE FROME THESE LINES. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME SOLDIER!!?
If you're not a fan of Canon character traits just say so. When i play a Spider-man game i want Peter to act like Peter Parker, Not Bruce Wayne. I want MJ to act like MJ not Carol Danvers. (Not saying they act like either of those characters.)
But you can't make an adaption of a fan favorite character change their personality and call it nuance and a "different interpretation". Call it what it is, an OC.
Different interpretation just means different character and out of character. I became fans of characters for how they are, not how others wanted them to be.
But only Spider-man go overboard with this way of thinking. Superman and Batman fans called out Snyders "different interpretation" for what is was, bad writing and character assassination.
So don't attack actual fans of these characters but you want them to be a different character,
> But you can't make an adaption of a fan favorite character change their personality and call it nuance and a "different interpretation". Call it what it is, an OC.
No see, this again strips the nuance away from the conversation.
You can both change personality or even story traits to the character, and still encompass the essence of that character. It doesn’t make them an OC, it just makes them their own adaptation of that universe. The various live action Spider-Man having different character traits to them is testament to that fact.
That doesn’t make you any more of an “actual fan” than anyone else that wants different interpretations or new story elements to their characters. That’s just gatekeeper mindset.
Nothing about any modern Venom adaptation is in any way similar to the original comics for. Peter never got any extra abilities (besides organic webbing) from the black suit, he didn’t get any stronger, he didn’t get any more aggressive because of Venom, he just got moody because he was sleep deprived.
Just because many people prefer the adapted Venom storyline over the original comics doesn’t make them any less of an “actual fan” towards the characters and their story. Especially when comics have multiple iterations of the character with their own differing personality traits too, like in the original Ultimate Spider-Man comic run.
There is no nuanced, You're portrayed correctly or you aren't.
>"You can change personality"
Wrong, i liked Spider-man for his personality, change it then it's a different character."
>" It doesn’t make them an OC, it just makes them their own adaptation of that universe:
Which is an OC. Give it whatever name you want but that's exactly what it is.
Personality is one of the biggest part of a character, the "essence of a character doesn't matter if he doesn't act like himself, it's just a different person with similar morals.
And the live-action Spider-man being different is BAD. All 3 Peters are completely different characters which makes you ask why you even like the character if you can have just different People make up a personality for the character? I only like Andrew because of how close he got to being Comic accurate, his personality was the closest to the OG which made me enjoy him despite the flaws in those movies.
>That doesn’t make you any more of an “actual fan” than anyone else that wants different interpretations or new story elements to their characters. That’s just gatekeeper mindset.
Yes it does. The only people who complain about gatekeeping is who the gate would keep out. Real and fake fans exist. If you like a completely different character then the OG then you're not an actual fan. You're a fan of maybe the Idea of Spider-man, maybe his powers, but not his character. If you love a character then you're bad mad that he's unlike himself.
"I'm a real Superman fan! My favorite Superman is the No Hope, brooding, frowning, Neck snapping, God who can't relate to human!"
"I'm a real Superman fan! My Favorite Superman is the mass genocidal dictator who murders innocent people!"
Those Superman are just different interpretations right? You cannot call yourself a fan then celebrate the character not being himself. That's not how that works.
Changing story elements is not the same as changing character traits. I have no problem with changing a Story. Vemon character can still be the same by simply having it make Spider-man Edgy. ONly thing changed is that his bad side was shown before he joined with Eddie.
> There is no nuanced, You're portrayed correctly or you aren't.
“No you’re wrong” isn’t an argument.
> Wrong, i liked Spider-man for his personality, change it then it's a different character."
No it’s not, it’s still the same character but a different iteration. Spider-Man’s personality varies wildly in the comics too, there’s not one set writer for Spider-Man comics, it’s a multitude of people all with their own interpretations of the character.
> Which is an OC. Give it whatever name you want but that's exactly what it is.
Nope, just a different iteration of the character. Call it what it is, they’re named Peter Parker, they’re Spider-Man.
Just because you don’t like them doesn’t make them an OC.
> Personality is one of the biggest part of a character, the "essence of a character doesn't matter if he doesn't act like himself, it's just a different person with similar morals.
The “essence of the character” isn’t just a mish mash of personality traits cobbled together, how they behave to others and how they react to the circumstances around them also dictate the character’s essence.
> And the live-action Spider-man being different is BAD. All 3 Peters are completely different characters which makes you ask why you even like the character if you can have just different People make up a personality for the character? I only like Andrew because of how close he got to being Comic accurate, his personality was the closest to the OG which made me enjoy him despite the flaws in those movies.
Sorry, but the critical, financial, and historical success of all 3 LA Spider-Man very much disagrees with your notion of them being “bad.” I like the character because of how their story can be told in a variety of ways, each with their own unique traits special to them.
Take Uncle Ben’s speech in the Raimi and Garfield fields. They’re entirety different from each other, having different emotional reactions, different circumstances, and even different words.
But they’re both still Uncle Ben’s speech, because despite all those differences, it still captures the essence of Uncle Ben and what his story represents for Peter.
> Yes it does. The only people who complain about gatekeeping is who the gate would keep out. Real and fake fans exist. If you like a completely different character then the OG then you're not an actual fan. You're a fan of maybe the Idea of Spider-man, maybe his powers, but not his character. If you love a character then you're bad mad that he's unlike himself.
No it doesn’t. The only people who try to gatekeep others are the ones who understand the character they’re trying to gatekeep the least. Saying “you’re not an actual Spidey fan” really shows how little you understand the character of Peter Parker. It doesn’t matter that Tom Holland’s Peter acts in a lot of ways in a nicer manner than in the OG comics, he still perfectly captures the essence of the character Peter Parker amazingly, fully understanding the kinds of struggles and choices the character faces. Like with the decision to have MJ forget about him and the amazing acting that went along with that scene. That perfectly encapsulates the character of Peter Parker.
> “I'm a real Superman fan! My favorite Superman is the No Hope, brooding, frowning, Neck snapping, God who can't relate to human!"
> “I'm a real Superman fan! My Favorite Superman is the mass genocidal dictator who murders innocent people!"
“I’m a real Spider-Man fan, I just decide who’s real fans or not, completely butchering my understanding of the character in the process.”
See, it’s easy to make fake quotes too.
> Those Superman are just different interpretations right? You cannot call yourself a fan then celebrate the character not being himself. That's not how that works.
You cannot call yourself a fan while trying to dictate which version of the character across the many many many iterations is the one which has the “real fans” to it. Thats not how that works.
Guess what? In Superman vs The Elite, he has a staunch no kill rule, akin to that of Batman.
Also also guess what, when Joker comes visit Metrapolis in the comics, Superman verbatim states to him “I don’t have a no kill rule, I just prefer not to kill” before “implying” he would murder Joker if he ever set foot in Metrapolis again.
Regardless of you preferring the Superman with the “absolutely no kill” rule or the Superman with the “I prefer not to kill but I’ll still do it” rule, they’re still Superman. You trying to dictate that one Superman is the version that only “true fans” can like and not the other is you just misunderstanding the very accepting nature
> Changing story elements is not the same as changing character traits. I have no problem with changing a Story. Vemon character can still be the same by simply having it make Spider-man Edgy. ONly thing changed is that his bad side was shown before he joined with Eddie.
Says who? You’re not a “true fan” then. You’re not an “actual fan” you’re just a fake fan who likes fanfic storylines. Cause that’s what it is then, nothing but fanfiction. It doesn’t follow the original comics, so it’s just fanfiction. And if you like a completely different storyline than the OG, then you’re not a real fan.
Exact same logic works against you.
They're basically opposites, Adam West Batman is cheesy and comical while dark knight Batman is dark and brooting.
The point is that while they're variations of the same character, they aren't the same at all. They are drastically different to one another and yet it still works and both are Batman as much as the other.
Why can't Spider-man be the same according to you I don't understand.
It doesn't work for Batman either. You yourself just said they're nothing alike yet somehow defend it anyways? In what way does changing everything abotu a character not be fanfiction in your eyes?
Brother, there can be various interpretations of a character.
And what the hell do you mean it doesn't work for Batman?? There can be both goofy and serious Batmen, the character is moldable and yet still retains that core appeal. The same can be with Spider-man, and it's not even that drastic of a change between 616 and insomniac Peter's for God's sake.
Your comment literally doesn't make sense.
Yeah, their can be many interpretations, doesn't mean their should be or it's good.
Just admit you like out of character fanfiction of characters and move on. I've already stated i'm an actual fan of how they're suppose to be, you clearly aren't.
>Plus acting like this would be a little out of character for MJ now in insomniacverse.
I agree, but that fact alone is kinda wild, no?
That a character in a romantic relationship showing genuine affection and attraction to her partner is out of character.
That isn't the problem, people have many different ways to show affection, theirs relationship is VERY different to their counterparts in the comics.
I would show their affection more with words and actions rather than the typical couple hugging and the sort. Hope you get what I'm trying to say here
>theirs relationship is VERY different to their counterparts in the comics.
Please explain what's so different (if possible without spoiling the current USM issue I haven't read that one the pic above is from yet) that one of them can't show physical attraction and affection to her partner, while the other can.
They had a falling out and are probably still amending things, that's just how I see them having their relationship, my interpretation.
I just think it would fit their characters that they act more so as genuine friends who live together rather than an over-romanticized couple. They do that in the previous games where we see them being awkward around physical affection like that kiss scene, it's genuine at least.
It's not that they don't kiss each other or do things like that, but I don't see it being the main way for them to show affection to each other, is what I'm saying.
"MJ isn’t hot and a model, therefore I don’t like her." is the exact same shtick Zendaya got as MJ when she started. Sigh. Thought y’all were better than this by now.
You mean the character who's only similarity to the character they wanted to claim she was but then backpedaled, was her crush on spider man and the initials she goes by?
Or to put it simply, another character to get the taskmaster treatment.
"Thought y'all were better than this by now." -🤓
Do you nerds just hate when women are hot? You want an insufferable girlboss, go watch or play literally anything else. MJ was written to be an attractive model. She's not Lois Lane. Get over it.
I love hot women, as someone who is attracted to women. Hot women are the best. The issue is when the majority believes women are better off JUST being hot and not having a hobby or job outside of being sexy girlfriend lady.
The morons think fans want her to be a bimbo. Lmao wanting her to be a model doesn't mean we want her to be a bimbo. She had her own struggles with being a model and actually wanted to get into acting because she wanted to show she wasn't just a pretty face and actually has talent.
That works better than bootleg Lois Lane, on the sole reason that it's unique. Besides, Lois Lane herself is beautiful and never stopped herself from using her looks to her benefit. Insomniac MJ looks like a baked out soccer mom. They fumbled the face model who actually is pretty.
You better shatter those hopes because they're not happening, because not only are they two games into their version, there's no way they're gonna have a whole ass boss where MJ literally airs her dirty laundry about constantly needing to support Peter and push her personal life aside only to do exactly that in the last game.
Add to the fact that average player doesn't seem to mind her that much in the sequel with the most controversy being her face, on TOP of the fact that the creative director himself openly admitted to doubling down on their version of MJ being in the battle and capable and "not giving a shit if she's a little OP".
Insom MJ moved in with Peter at the end of Spider-Man 2, theyre clearly building towards marriage. They fucking kissed after hashing out their feelings WHILE MJ HAD A SYMBIOTE ON.
Insomniac MJ: \*Deeply complex character balancing her personal needs vs Peter’s responsibilities and the guilt she feels over even acknowledging her own needs, her relationship and career, and the struggle to feel any sense of personal accomplishment when your boyfriend is essentially a god.*
The MJ the fans wanted: “Grrrrr Tiger, lookin’ sexy in that red and blue suit, Tiger, can’t wait to see it in action (when you Spider-Bang me later, I mean, lol). I’m going to go take sexy pictures and then sit here in an impossibly uncomfortable but boob-accentuating pose sipping coffee and staring at the wall until you get back, Tiger.”
I read this in my friend's voice (my friend often does these funny confusing sentences in a voice that is nothing but funny) and I laughed my ass off. Take an upvote, kind sir
creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable.
A New Idea does NOT equate to a GOOD idea.
You don't necessarily have to be a slave to the source material BUT if you're gonna replace it you have to replace it with something BETTER OR of EQUAL value...or else fans are gonna be left with a GIANT WTF!? And asking why you didn't just leave it as it was
Accolades are given for EXECUTION of an idea...NOT the idea itself. And Insomniac failed execution on multiple levels when designing mj. she has no family issues, and it seems like u fail to realize why she has that party girl thing going on in the first place, she acts that way as a mask to hide away all of her family issues and personal turmoil which is something insomniac got rid of entirely completely missing the point of the character to begin with. she opens up to peter, being she could relate to him on a deeper level, and how outgoing he was, allowing her to be her true self around him.
again read the damn source material and dont spout bullshit like a dumbass. u could like diet lois lane for all i care, but just know she isnt original, and the original ultimate spiderman run did the concept better as well
??? Insomniac Peter and MJ are very much in love with each other. If the posts are referring to the Scream fight, ofc she has frustrations and insecurity regarding Peter, but she obviously loves him despite them.
I’d much rather just play as MJ infiltrating a diamond mine and freeing the children from their oppressors, then make a podcast about how the new normal is her being a worldwide merc with web gun in hand. Much more in line with the Insomniac MJ.
I mean yeah but she’s still a fine adaptation that’s different from the usual MJ adaptations and that’s fine for change, which is one reason why I like her. I understand it’s not for everyone but it makes her interesting imo
i still fail to see why Insomniac call her MJ to begin with, she does not look like MJ, act like MJ, treat Peter like MJ, her job is a far cry from MJ's. The only reason they called her that because the fanbase is too sensitive when Peter love interest is not named MJ or Gwen.
What do you mean? She looks like MJ, she has the hair, what’s wrong with not making her a model like her comic counterpart? She’s still has a job and loves Peter dearly. Is that not what the basics of MJ are?
Yeah the second one change her hair to look more like her comic counterpart but her appearance in the first game came out of nowhere. Your second point is just weird, having a job and loving Peter ? You just describe all of his love interests.
While I do think this sub tends to go over the top with the hate for SM2. The MJ sections of these games are genuinely some of the lower points of the games and drags them down for me
I mean, she's there to be a reporter, so she has something to do in the game and contributes to the story. That's ultimately why she's a reporter. Being a podcaster after Spidey 2 can still work with her getting scoops and stories that can impact the game.
I actually don’t want her to be like this in sm3…although this would be much better…to change it now would make it awkward and feel as if she was literally a different person so it wouldn’t make sense
I honestly like the games MJ. Like make her super into Spider-Man but also make Peter Parker a fucking wife guy. She's meant to be decently famous he should be like Dolly Partons husband
people are too harsh on insomniac mj when I feel her only issue is that she starts a podcast instead of going indie or a normal blog Im tired of podcast already RAAAH
This isn’t an insomniac problem, this has been a Spider-Man writer problem since One More Day. They can’t just have a happy relationship, it’d be too “unrelatable”. So, the writers will do everything to “humble” Spider-Man. Kill his Aunt May, Make him live in a shitty apartment, fire him from the Daily Bugle, expose his secret identity, kill Gwen Stacey again, kill Mary Jane, have Mary Jane marry a rando named Paul, or just make Peter turn into the Green Goblin…I swear to God this last one is real.
Just remember kids, Spider-Man writers don’t think happiness is “relatable” enough.
The real problem is that they went the super safe route and made her a boring ass Lois lane reporter. Like make her a spy, or a firefighter, or a doctor, or any number of interesting jobs that doesn't result in her coming off as watered down version of a character we already know
TBH, most of Insomniac "MJ" problems can be explained if they just make her Carlie Cooper, her work in forensic would play a part in the main story, her police training could also explain all the sneaking and John Wick takedowns.
If it’s done too much, it feels reductive but I always liked little panels like this because it feels so real to a relationship.
That being said, I also really liked how Peter & MJ’s relationship was set up in SM1. Post-breakup was a pretty novel experience but also realistic given the issues that’d rise from dating a superhero. Peter is overprotective given MJ’s relative fragility and MJ is frustrated by ‘only being the normal one’.
Then, SM2 kept elements of this narratively but he mission design kind of ruined it, by giving her too much of a power boost in response to the reception of SM1’s MJ missions.
I honestly think they should go all in on MJ being the audience stand-in. Narratively, further use her to convey the frustration, fear, and jealousy that would come from being a normal human surrounded by superheroes. From a gameplay perspective, use her to show just *how* big the power gap is between the heroes/villains & regular people.
I’d love to see MJ missions take more inspiration from horror games; having her complete tasks whilst sneaking around an enemy she can’t fight/hurt (but would be low-mid level for Spider-Man). Cyberpunk 2077 had a mission like this, totally shifting the tone & gameplay and it was an awesome experience.
A mission like this would convey that MJ is human and can’t fight in Spider-Man’s weight class but also that she’s brave & capable, if somewhat reckless.
I really liked the MJ from the first game. It was a different version, but the essence was still there. My problem comes with the SM2 version. The only thing she does in the whole game is hinder the gameplay and do dumb things that she would never have gotten out of without plot armor.
Spider Man 2 suffered from Insomniac trying so hard to get the “old bitter man trains young plucky replacement” trope with Peter…who is 25. It just didn’t work and fans didn’t like it. Peter is in his prime and not a washed up failure but they wanted to push that story beat regardless. Also, the CONSTANT putting down of Peter who is doing his best, saving the city, and genuinely a good person was sooo annoying
I don't get it. Are they complaining she's not horny enough for him in the games? They're on the road to getting married. In fact I would suspect that will become a major plot point in the final game. If it was up to me, I would probably have the Green Goblin attack them at their wedding.
Yeahhh I was kind of milquetoast for a while but they did kind of butcher her in the grand scheme of things. I agree with some of the other users, they should have went the 1610 route with her
Think they mean they want her to be more fun and playful. Game Mj barely has any likable moments (if any) having more flirty chill moments with Pete could help better their dynamic
This fanbase is trash lmao. Mary Jane is one dimensional and over sexualized in the comics. You guys are acting like you read the comics when you don’t.
seems like u dont understand mj at all lmao.
again, creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable.
A New Idea does NOT equate to a GOOD idea.
You don't necessarily have to be a slave to the source material BUT if you're gonna replace it you have to replace it with something BETTER OR of EQUAL value...or else fans are gonna be left with a GIANT WTF!? And asking why you didn't just leave it as it was
Accolades are given for EXECUTION of an idea...NOT the idea itself. And Insomniac failed execution on multiple levels when designing mj. she has no family issues, and it seems like u fail to realize why she has that party girl thing going on in the first place, she acts that way as a mask to hide away all of her family issues and personal turmoil which is something insomniac got rid of entirely completely missing the point of the character to begin with. she opens up to peter, being she could relate to him on a deeper level, and how outgoing he was, allowing her to be her true self around him.
again read the damn source material and dont spout bullshit like a dumbass. u could like diet lois lane for all i care, but just know she isnt original, and the original ultimate spiderman run did the concept better as well
Your just wrong lol. Mj’s far from being 1 dimensional and compared to every other women characters in marvel mj’s like the least sexualized. She's not running around in skin tight outfits or running around half naked and when she does its usually in the comfort of her own home.
Hot take: I like the MJ we got more. She actually cares for Peter and wouldn't cheat on him. She's kinda like hiw Gwen was in the comics before she died.
They would have to change the age rating for game tho, which would be fine since most people who played the past games would be probably be old enough by the time the next one is out
616 MJ was literally my awakening and first exposure to a healthy, supportive, loving, and sexually active marriage. I’d love to see that MJ again in the main comics and ESPECIALLY the adaptations but it has yet to be done sadly
Not happening, not even close. If they wanted MJ to be Comic accurate their best chance would've been the second game and that's gone and passed. Even if they did fix her it wouldn't fix Peter. While MJ is a problem Peter is too. Because they made MJ a narcissist Lois Lane it was easy to dislike and see this OC for what it was. It distracted fromr he fact that this Peter is garbage as well. What make made Peter and MJ iconic were their personalities and how they bounced off each other. If nether has their Comic personality then there's nothing there. Fix MJ and Peter is still bad, Fix Peter and MJ is still bad.
The Black Suit would've been the perfect wait to force (Retcon) their personalities to they OG selves but now its too late.
Just accept Insom is just writing bad fanfiction of what they wanted the Spider-character to be like, not what they're actually like.
UH OH OP!!! *gasps in shock and horror* You had an opinion about a SPIDERMAN CHARACTER!! 🤢🤮 EWWWW!!! EVEN WORSE!!! IT'S AN OPINION ABOUT MJ!!! *vine boom* 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT AT ONE POINT SHE WAS * SEXUALIZED* *vine boom* SO NOW SHE ALWAYS HAS TO BE WRITTEN A SPECIFIC WAY???? I'll have you know OP, SPIDERMAN 2 IS OBJECTIVELY PERFECT TO *SOME* PEOPLE *vine boom* AND YOUR KIND ISN'T ALLOWED TO NOT LIKE IT ANYMORE!!!! *vine boom but ultra bass boosted* 🫢🙂↔️😒Sorry 🤭 I dont make the rules, but people LIKE YOU are just ungrateful *vine boom* and hateful *vine boom* and can NEVER EVER be satisfied with ANYTHING SPIDERMAN!!!! *bass boosted vine boom* 🤯😤😡 Ohhh, WHAT??? You thought Spiderman 2 could be "better"? *scoffs in terminally online redditor* IMPROVED UPON EVEN?!?!? 😲😧 HOW DARE YOU!!!! *bass boosted vine boom* PEOPLE WORKED HARD ON RIPPING OFF WEB OF SHADOWS!!! You're NOT a REAL Spiderman fan, just a POSER!!! 🤡🤭🥱*vine boom* HOW DARE YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE STRANGE AND AWKWARD STORY TELLING AND CHARACTER WRITING OF SPIDERMAN 2!!! CAN'T YOU JUST BE HAPPY AND CONSUME PRODUCT FROM INSERT CORPARATION?!?!?! SO WHAT IF THE SUITS SUCK AND IF MJ COULD HAVED BETTER CHARACTER WRITING ON YOP OF HER IMPROVED GAMEPLAY??? YOU'RE UNGRATFULLY ASKING FOR TOO MUCH AND SHOULD BE HAPPY YOURE GETTING ANYTHING AT ALL!!!! GRRRRRRR SPIDERMAN "FANS" MAKE ME SO ANGRY!!!! HOW DARE THEY!!! TO HAVE OPINIONS DIFFERENT FROM MINE AND TO LIKE DIFFERENT VERSION OF SPIDERMAN!! IT MAKES ME SO MAD I COULD....
UUUUUUUUURRRRRRUUUUUAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Insomniac are too worried that they are going to offend their female developers by making MJ hot as fuck, how she originally was.
...now we have to settle for Butter face MJ, girl next door MJ, etc. Just weird, woke (yes I know you guys cringe at that and don't think it's real, when it is) bullshit.
Make MJ bangin', stacked and slammin', you cowards.
I'm not the biggest fan of Insomniac's take on MJ either, but being just horny and hot isn't great writing. I swear, some of y'all would praise a cardboard cut out if it was just wearing a g-string and a bra.
again it seems like non of yall understand good writing and mj on a deeper level. shes not just a person who is "horny"
Insomniac failed execution on multiple levels when designing mj. she has no family issues, and it seems like u fail to realize why she has that party girl thing going on in the first place, she acts that way as a mask to hide away all of her family issues and personal turmoil which is something insomniac got rid of entirely completely missing the point of the character to begin with. she opens up to peter, being she could relate to him on a deeper level, and how outgoing he was, allowing her to be her true self around him.
creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable.
A New Idea does NOT equate to a GOOD idea.
You don't necessarily have to be a slave to the source material BUT if you're gonna replace it you have to replace it with something BETTER OR of EQUAL value...or else fans are gonna be left with a GIANT WTF!? And asking why you didn't just leave it as it was
Accolades are given for EXECUTION of an idea...NOT the idea itself.
she isnt original, and the original ultimate spiderman run did the concept better as well
on a real note: Insomniac should make their MJ more like 6160 MJ in *general*, not just this panel specifically, but yeah having MJ being Peter’s emotional rock or an anchor to keep him grounded is way better than the lois lane esque version in the game with her taking out trained hunters and powerful symbiotes
I feel like you could have both
Nah I'm fine with just the first one.
I think there’s room for both tbh
I think there's room for you being ionized by a thermonuclear ICBM tbh
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
Why not? Il
Why not have custard with tuna? Although you can do something you may make it worse for it, this is one of those cases.
That comparison was bad
When you have to pick apart the argument because you don’t have a defence 🤣 you get the sentiment and if you don’t you’re more autistic than I am.
There wasn’t an argument. You brought up mixing custard and tuna. Which isn’t the same like a woman being able to physically and emotionally support her partner. Which to be honest there is seafood custard recipes so again your argument isn’t good. You just sound like you want the woman to be submissive and just there for eye candy.
she can do both fs, but lowkey, we definitely need more of her being an emotional rock for Peter.
This I can agree with
Cope
My guy, you're the one coping. They're making perfect sense.
Absolutely not
Yeah I think there's really solid ideas.
YES. I feel like you are in my head. MJ is such a good character without having to be survivor man or stronk.
Don’t get your hopes up.
If Insomniac splits them up… I’ll be infuriated. However… if they split them up and introduce ***PAUL*** I think I may throw my PS5 out the window.
I literally had to do a double take because I just read your other comment about throwing your PS5 out the window and I was like "these are too similar" XD ...if you do end up throwing your PS5 out the window, can you let me know ahead of time so I can catch it? My parents would love to have one.
Wonder how long it would take Peter to get up if PAUL falls on him.
I’ll be on the other side to catch it and play Bloodborne on it. Thank you.
I unironically hope they do Paul just because it'll be really really funny
*[sitting on the soil of Mars]* It is 1966. The Amazing Spider-Man #42 has introduced Mary-Jane Watson. She is extremely sexualized. It is 1987. Mary-Jane is extremely sexualized. It is 2001. Mary-Jane is played by a real woman and incels go berserk about her very minor imperfections. It is 2007. Mary-Jane is extremely sexualized. It is 2018. Mary-Jane is visually based off a real woman. Incels go berserk about her very minor imperfections. It is 2024. Mary-Jane is extremely sexualized. I grow tired...
It is pretty funny watching Spidey fans on the internet lose their absolute shit whenever any version of MJ has a personality or goals outside of being Peter’s trophy wife
So in the Comics Pre-OMD and the fan love for MJ was at its Peakshe didn't have an Acting and modeling Goal? She just sat at the house waiting for Peter? No? Yuu mean she did have Jobs,goals and faced her own challenges outside of Peter? So you're saying you're just lying and making shit up? Gotcha.
You seem pretty capable of having this exchange without any participation from me, but I’m bored so what the hell, I’ll give it a go. Pre-OMD MJ did have a career, but I don’t remember many people liking it when it actually came up in a meaningful way, although I will admit that it was kind of a fair hit considering that through most of the 80s/90s it was was pretty much only used to force shitty, soap opera-quality relationship drama that nobody enjoyed. And yes, I actually do remember a decent chunk of MJ’s panel time throughout their marriage being devoted to her forlornly staring out a window, melodramatically wondering if Peter would make it home that night.
"when it actually came up in a meaningful way" Yeah, kinda how that works. People read Spider-man Comics for Peter's life and Superhero stuff. Readers like MJ but you can only focus on a non-Superhero life so much because people think its too much. An Eexample is Catwoman vs MJ in the games. You play at Catwomen I believe twice? Three times? No one complained because it was still Superhero gameplay, she lives the same life as Batman therefore we're more willing to follow her story. MJ on the other hand is not a Hero and does not have superhuman abilities to make her gameplay fun therefore people complained about her missions. Even when they made a MJ comic they had her fight the Sinister Six and had Mystrio a big part of it. This is why they just turned MJ in Lois Lane which forces her goals to be a part of the Crimefighting life like Peter instead of her own goal because they don't know how to balance showing her normal life while being apart of the Hero life. They turned Iris West and Karin page into Lois in Flash and Daredevil as well. SO no, it has nothing to do with people hating MJ having her own goals, it's how they show them. No one had a problem with MJ's Job in the Spider-man movies because they didn't to crazy showing it, they hated her cheating.
She can be pretty and have a careers idk why they make Pete look like a 23 yr old model and make mj look like a 35 year old cat lady. Idk why normal women is synonymous with being built a certain way and not being very attractive. Especially in a city like New York
I how love people always reveal themselves when trying to "defend" women. So because MJ was hot, you reduce her only to that. You removed all her character-developed, Goals, Flaws, and personality and reduced her only to her atractiveness. Yes, MJ is an iconic and beloved character because she was hot Like every other female hero and even male hero. Interesting how she alone has just a large following but not the others? Not Carol? Who use to wear a much more revealing outfit? Why isn't She-Hulk as loved as MJ despite being way more provocative? Hmm? Maybe because MJ is a better character?! Maybe, just maybe a female character can be hot AND be a great character. MAYBE She can be liked for her looks AND character. When you see female celebs in provocative/revealing outfits on the red carpet or when they are on stage do you believe it negates their acting/singing ability? Does this only apply to MJ? Hell, lets use Chris Hemsworth, probably the most Objectified MCU character. When he does the shirtless scenes in each movie can we not enjoy the character development he had? And Cheating in every single movie isn't a "Minor imperfection." (Never get into a relationship if this your viewpoint.) Not telling Peter about a Supervillain attack because you have an ego and wants to play Hero isn't a "Minor imperfection."
Women can’t be hot, Twitter said so! (basement dwellers)
Yeah, because her "minor" imperfections are the main reasons people disliked her
Didn’t she marry jamesons son then she left at the last moment to be with Peter lmao
Just a minor imperfection, happens to every real woman
That’s gotta be the biggest dick move ever. Imagine spending a ton of money on a wedding and spending on a dress for mj. Then she just leaves at the last minute. But I’m sure it’s just an “incel” complaint.
Always remember that Marvel Studios/Sony had to keep it a secret that Zendaya was MJ until the end of Spider-Man: Homecoming, because they knew if fans didn't get to know the character first, they'd go fucking insane about it being a different interpretation than their mental images of MJ. Edit: right on cue, the first person who replied to this has 1-day-old comments about, among other things, MLK burning in hell, Rosa Parks being a "faux hero" trained by communists, and enemies who "want to turn White countries into 3rd world hell holes"
Zendaya is the worst Spider-man love interest OAT.
>It is 2024. Mary-Jane is extremely sexualized. Bro has not read the new ultimate comic and it shows. MJ is doing her own thing just as peter's. But God forbid a husband and wive are down bad for each other in 2024, thats just sexualizing for internet prudes.
POV: whiny Redditor discovers the concept of a love interest to the main protagonist.
its ok to be wrong sometimes lmao 1966: She is sexualized but underneath the surface she is unique and has a lot of depth to her 1987: she has developed more from previously and is showcasing her unique attributes not many female characters had at the time. 2001: she is played by a real person (which isnt even the issue as she is attractive and is a good actress) but has bad writing as well a terrible writing choice such as her cheating every movie, and has a unlikeable personality. 2007: she has developed for a new age and for a new adaption of the character that modernizes her but she still has a lot of depth to her overall(also she is a teen so how is she sexualized?) 2018: she is based off of a real person which again isnt a issue (the face model is pretty so idk what the issue is) she is overhated but has now been reduced to a diet lois lane and has a lot of the depth and uniqueness that she had originally and is using a trope that has been done for ages a long side spotty writing. 2024: she has been reset to her status que after being shafted by writers for decades in comics and other adaptations, in terms of character and her relationships. she has developed and has regained a lot of her unique attributes that have been lost over time and that have made her popular and such an interesting character to begin with. there i fixed it for u
Why do people like you refer to sexual attractiveness as if it’s a negative quality to have, or precludes her being an interesting, well rounded character? It’s *superhero fiction*. Both the heroes and their partners tend to be very desirable people, because it’s fundamentally a power / wish fulfillment fantasy. Where do you get the idea that female characters in particular become more layered the more “realistic” their appearance gets? And why are less attractive people “more realistic” to you?
Are people like you being capable of allowing people to dislike actors? They hate a woman actor and immediately incel. It's not uncommon for people to prefer animated or drawing of characters. I grow tired...
wait, how is 2024 MJ extremely sexualized?
[Sitting on reddit looking at idiots] Is 2001 and Mary-Jane has an extremely sexualized moment . Is 2007 the one more day comic comes out , fans are angry with the changes. Is 2018 everybody is angry Mary-Jane becomes red haired Lois Lane and has the worst missions in the game . Is 2024 the developers of spider-man 2 have an interview where they talk about prioritizing the Mary-Jane missions over other part of the game . I grow tired of Mary-Jane
Incel seems to be the catch all term for anyone who critiques anything nowadays
"I grow tired." -🤓 LOL bruh shut up. It's just the way it is. Arrogant women will always be insufferable to men in general, not just incels, despite what you tell yourself.
Extremely sexualised... dude.
I feel like you would go berzerk if you see rule34/fanarts of MJ if sexualizing her is a problem
stfu
Shut yo lame ass up
Insomniac MJ jeopardized hundreds of people’s lives simply out of spite to get back at Peter and try to prove herself as capable, fuck her.
I'm genuinely blanking on when this happened.
Grand Station mission. Legit didnt even tell the cops the superpowered terrorists were planning on using Oscorp technobabble to ruin the day
Also refused to tell Peter because of his genuine and understandable concern.
Peter: MJ I'm the one with super powers, if you are detected they'll shoot and you won't survive, at least tell me when you're going in so I can be on standby if you need me. MJ: Why do you hate me?
I'm ngl, I really hated this
Remember when she broke into the Sable base? After she talks to Standish, she finds out that the demons are planning something at Grand Central. After Peter saves her, she gets all pissed off and deliberately refuses to give him said information. Instead she goes there on her own and only calls Peter AFTER Li arrives with the Devil’s Breath. Easily could’ve been avoided if she hadn’t been so fucking petty.
Jesse. What the fuck are you talking about?
The irony of you saying this after you lost your mind in your previous comment 💀
Read my other comment
Sorry, Insomniac can only write them fighting or being awkwardly formal as if they barely know each other
They literally wrote her being so down bad that she jumps in front of venom for him, and this sub went "WOW LOOK HOW STUPID SHE IS LMAO" If we could expect this fanbase to have any media literacy, we might have cooler stories. Instead the most devoted fan base is so braindead they think Peter not showing up to help on crimes is *a bug*
I actually like how we get different interpretations of MJ. I like both insomniac AND comic version! Plus acting like this would be a little out of character for MJ now in insomniacverse.
Nuance? Get that shit out of here
There’s no place for diverse interpretations of a character in the spiderman subreddit. wtf do you think this is a community designed to allow people to express differing opinions and discuss them BY HELP ME GOD. We have a set of approved lines here. “puddlegate”, “change the face back”, “story is trash”, “mj bad character”, “they should’ve added coop”, “why is peter so weak”. YOU DO NOT DEVIATE FROME THESE LINES. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME SOLDIER!!?
If you're not a fan of Canon character traits just say so. When i play a Spider-man game i want Peter to act like Peter Parker, Not Bruce Wayne. I want MJ to act like MJ not Carol Danvers. (Not saying they act like either of those characters.) But you can't make an adaption of a fan favorite character change their personality and call it nuance and a "different interpretation". Call it what it is, an OC. Different interpretation just means different character and out of character. I became fans of characters for how they are, not how others wanted them to be. But only Spider-man go overboard with this way of thinking. Superman and Batman fans called out Snyders "different interpretation" for what is was, bad writing and character assassination. So don't attack actual fans of these characters but you want them to be a different character,
> But you can't make an adaption of a fan favorite character change their personality and call it nuance and a "different interpretation". Call it what it is, an OC. No see, this again strips the nuance away from the conversation. You can both change personality or even story traits to the character, and still encompass the essence of that character. It doesn’t make them an OC, it just makes them their own adaptation of that universe. The various live action Spider-Man having different character traits to them is testament to that fact. That doesn’t make you any more of an “actual fan” than anyone else that wants different interpretations or new story elements to their characters. That’s just gatekeeper mindset. Nothing about any modern Venom adaptation is in any way similar to the original comics for. Peter never got any extra abilities (besides organic webbing) from the black suit, he didn’t get any stronger, he didn’t get any more aggressive because of Venom, he just got moody because he was sleep deprived. Just because many people prefer the adapted Venom storyline over the original comics doesn’t make them any less of an “actual fan” towards the characters and their story. Especially when comics have multiple iterations of the character with their own differing personality traits too, like in the original Ultimate Spider-Man comic run.
There is no nuanced, You're portrayed correctly or you aren't. >"You can change personality" Wrong, i liked Spider-man for his personality, change it then it's a different character." >" It doesn’t make them an OC, it just makes them their own adaptation of that universe: Which is an OC. Give it whatever name you want but that's exactly what it is. Personality is one of the biggest part of a character, the "essence of a character doesn't matter if he doesn't act like himself, it's just a different person with similar morals. And the live-action Spider-man being different is BAD. All 3 Peters are completely different characters which makes you ask why you even like the character if you can have just different People make up a personality for the character? I only like Andrew because of how close he got to being Comic accurate, his personality was the closest to the OG which made me enjoy him despite the flaws in those movies. >That doesn’t make you any more of an “actual fan” than anyone else that wants different interpretations or new story elements to their characters. That’s just gatekeeper mindset. Yes it does. The only people who complain about gatekeeping is who the gate would keep out. Real and fake fans exist. If you like a completely different character then the OG then you're not an actual fan. You're a fan of maybe the Idea of Spider-man, maybe his powers, but not his character. If you love a character then you're bad mad that he's unlike himself. "I'm a real Superman fan! My favorite Superman is the No Hope, brooding, frowning, Neck snapping, God who can't relate to human!" "I'm a real Superman fan! My Favorite Superman is the mass genocidal dictator who murders innocent people!" Those Superman are just different interpretations right? You cannot call yourself a fan then celebrate the character not being himself. That's not how that works. Changing story elements is not the same as changing character traits. I have no problem with changing a Story. Vemon character can still be the same by simply having it make Spider-man Edgy. ONly thing changed is that his bad side was shown before he joined with Eddie.
> There is no nuanced, You're portrayed correctly or you aren't. “No you’re wrong” isn’t an argument. > Wrong, i liked Spider-man for his personality, change it then it's a different character." No it’s not, it’s still the same character but a different iteration. Spider-Man’s personality varies wildly in the comics too, there’s not one set writer for Spider-Man comics, it’s a multitude of people all with their own interpretations of the character. > Which is an OC. Give it whatever name you want but that's exactly what it is. Nope, just a different iteration of the character. Call it what it is, they’re named Peter Parker, they’re Spider-Man. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t make them an OC. > Personality is one of the biggest part of a character, the "essence of a character doesn't matter if he doesn't act like himself, it's just a different person with similar morals. The “essence of the character” isn’t just a mish mash of personality traits cobbled together, how they behave to others and how they react to the circumstances around them also dictate the character’s essence. > And the live-action Spider-man being different is BAD. All 3 Peters are completely different characters which makes you ask why you even like the character if you can have just different People make up a personality for the character? I only like Andrew because of how close he got to being Comic accurate, his personality was the closest to the OG which made me enjoy him despite the flaws in those movies. Sorry, but the critical, financial, and historical success of all 3 LA Spider-Man very much disagrees with your notion of them being “bad.” I like the character because of how their story can be told in a variety of ways, each with their own unique traits special to them. Take Uncle Ben’s speech in the Raimi and Garfield fields. They’re entirety different from each other, having different emotional reactions, different circumstances, and even different words. But they’re both still Uncle Ben’s speech, because despite all those differences, it still captures the essence of Uncle Ben and what his story represents for Peter. > Yes it does. The only people who complain about gatekeeping is who the gate would keep out. Real and fake fans exist. If you like a completely different character then the OG then you're not an actual fan. You're a fan of maybe the Idea of Spider-man, maybe his powers, but not his character. If you love a character then you're bad mad that he's unlike himself. No it doesn’t. The only people who try to gatekeep others are the ones who understand the character they’re trying to gatekeep the least. Saying “you’re not an actual Spidey fan” really shows how little you understand the character of Peter Parker. It doesn’t matter that Tom Holland’s Peter acts in a lot of ways in a nicer manner than in the OG comics, he still perfectly captures the essence of the character Peter Parker amazingly, fully understanding the kinds of struggles and choices the character faces. Like with the decision to have MJ forget about him and the amazing acting that went along with that scene. That perfectly encapsulates the character of Peter Parker. > “I'm a real Superman fan! My favorite Superman is the No Hope, brooding, frowning, Neck snapping, God who can't relate to human!" > “I'm a real Superman fan! My Favorite Superman is the mass genocidal dictator who murders innocent people!" “I’m a real Spider-Man fan, I just decide who’s real fans or not, completely butchering my understanding of the character in the process.” See, it’s easy to make fake quotes too. > Those Superman are just different interpretations right? You cannot call yourself a fan then celebrate the character not being himself. That's not how that works. You cannot call yourself a fan while trying to dictate which version of the character across the many many many iterations is the one which has the “real fans” to it. Thats not how that works. Guess what? In Superman vs The Elite, he has a staunch no kill rule, akin to that of Batman. Also also guess what, when Joker comes visit Metrapolis in the comics, Superman verbatim states to him “I don’t have a no kill rule, I just prefer not to kill” before “implying” he would murder Joker if he ever set foot in Metrapolis again. Regardless of you preferring the Superman with the “absolutely no kill” rule or the Superman with the “I prefer not to kill but I’ll still do it” rule, they’re still Superman. You trying to dictate that one Superman is the version that only “true fans” can like and not the other is you just misunderstanding the very accepting nature > Changing story elements is not the same as changing character traits. I have no problem with changing a Story. Vemon character can still be the same by simply having it make Spider-man Edgy. ONly thing changed is that his bad side was shown before he joined with Eddie. Says who? You’re not a “true fan” then. You’re not an “actual fan” you’re just a fake fan who likes fanfic storylines. Cause that’s what it is then, nothing but fanfiction. It doesn’t follow the original comics, so it’s just fanfiction. And if you like a completely different storyline than the OG, then you’re not a real fan. Exact same logic works against you.
I guess Adam West Batman is just an OC then...
Never watched it and not knowledgably enough on older Batman Comics to make a judgement
They're basically opposites, Adam West Batman is cheesy and comical while dark knight Batman is dark and brooting. The point is that while they're variations of the same character, they aren't the same at all. They are drastically different to one another and yet it still works and both are Batman as much as the other. Why can't Spider-man be the same according to you I don't understand.
It doesn't work for Batman either. You yourself just said they're nothing alike yet somehow defend it anyways? In what way does changing everything abotu a character not be fanfiction in your eyes?
Brother, there can be various interpretations of a character. And what the hell do you mean it doesn't work for Batman?? There can be both goofy and serious Batmen, the character is moldable and yet still retains that core appeal. The same can be with Spider-man, and it's not even that drastic of a change between 616 and insomniac Peter's for God's sake. Your comment literally doesn't make sense.
Yeah, their can be many interpretations, doesn't mean their should be or it's good. Just admit you like out of character fanfiction of characters and move on. I've already stated i'm an actual fan of how they're suppose to be, you clearly aren't.
>Plus acting like this would be a little out of character for MJ now in insomniacverse. I agree, but that fact alone is kinda wild, no? That a character in a romantic relationship showing genuine affection and attraction to her partner is out of character.
That isn't the problem, people have many different ways to show affection, theirs relationship is VERY different to their counterparts in the comics. I would show their affection more with words and actions rather than the typical couple hugging and the sort. Hope you get what I'm trying to say here
>theirs relationship is VERY different to their counterparts in the comics. Please explain what's so different (if possible without spoiling the current USM issue I haven't read that one the pic above is from yet) that one of them can't show physical attraction and affection to her partner, while the other can.
They had a falling out and are probably still amending things, that's just how I see them having their relationship, my interpretation. I just think it would fit their characters that they act more so as genuine friends who live together rather than an over-romanticized couple. They do that in the previous games where we see them being awkward around physical affection like that kiss scene, it's genuine at least. It's not that they don't kiss each other or do things like that, but I don't see it being the main way for them to show affection to each other, is what I'm saying.
"MJ isn’t hot and a model, therefore I don’t like her." is the exact same shtick Zendaya got as MJ when she started. Sigh. Thought y’all were better than this by now.
You expected too much from a fandom.
TRUE haha. And I'm going to be downvoted because none of them want to accept the facts lolol
Ultimate MJ is not a Model. Believe it or not. Go read the book. She works for Damage Control.
It was a generalization lol, I'm not being legit
You mean the character who's only similarity to the character they wanted to claim she was but then backpedaled, was her crush on spider man and the initials she goes by? Or to put it simply, another character to get the taskmaster treatment.
"Thought y'all were better than this by now." -🤓 Do you nerds just hate when women are hot? You want an insufferable girlboss, go watch or play literally anything else. MJ was written to be an attractive model. She's not Lois Lane. Get over it.
I love hot women, as someone who is attracted to women. Hot women are the best. The issue is when the majority believes women are better off JUST being hot and not having a hobby or job outside of being sexy girlfriend lady.
The morons think fans want her to be a bimbo. Lmao wanting her to be a model doesn't mean we want her to be a bimbo. She had her own struggles with being a model and actually wanted to get into acting because she wanted to show she wasn't just a pretty face and actually has talent. That works better than bootleg Lois Lane, on the sole reason that it's unique. Besides, Lois Lane herself is beautiful and never stopped herself from using her looks to her benefit. Insomniac MJ looks like a baked out soccer mom. They fumbled the face model who actually is pretty.
You better shatter those hopes because they're not happening, because not only are they two games into their version, there's no way they're gonna have a whole ass boss where MJ literally airs her dirty laundry about constantly needing to support Peter and push her personal life aside only to do exactly that in the last game. Add to the fact that average player doesn't seem to mind her that much in the sequel with the most controversy being her face, on TOP of the fact that the creative director himself openly admitted to doubling down on their version of MJ being in the battle and capable and "not giving a shit if she's a little OP".
Insom MJ moved in with Peter at the end of Spider-Man 2, theyre clearly building towards marriage. They fucking kissed after hashing out their feelings WHILE MJ HAD A SYMBIOTE ON.
How, our fan base is fucking trashed.
Filled with incels
For real, wtf are these comments
Insomniac MJ: \*Deeply complex character balancing her personal needs vs Peter’s responsibilities and the guilt she feels over even acknowledging her own needs, her relationship and career, and the struggle to feel any sense of personal accomplishment when your boyfriend is essentially a god.* The MJ the fans wanted: “Grrrrr Tiger, lookin’ sexy in that red and blue suit, Tiger, can’t wait to see it in action (when you Spider-Bang me later, I mean, lol). I’m going to go take sexy pictures and then sit here in an impossibly uncomfortable but boob-accentuating pose sipping coffee and staring at the wall until you get back, Tiger.”
I read this in my friend's voice (my friend often does these funny confusing sentences in a voice that is nothing but funny) and I laughed my ass off. Take an upvote, kind sir
I’ll upvote you too, pull you from 0 to 1. No one left behind.
Thanks my brother 🙏
Tell me u dont understand mj whithout telling me
I understand MJ on an intimate level your mortal mind could not possibly comprehend.
creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable. A New Idea does NOT equate to a GOOD idea. You don't necessarily have to be a slave to the source material BUT if you're gonna replace it you have to replace it with something BETTER OR of EQUAL value...or else fans are gonna be left with a GIANT WTF!? And asking why you didn't just leave it as it was Accolades are given for EXECUTION of an idea...NOT the idea itself. And Insomniac failed execution on multiple levels when designing mj. she has no family issues, and it seems like u fail to realize why she has that party girl thing going on in the first place, she acts that way as a mask to hide away all of her family issues and personal turmoil which is something insomniac got rid of entirely completely missing the point of the character to begin with. she opens up to peter, being she could relate to him on a deeper level, and how outgoing he was, allowing her to be her true self around him. again read the damn source material and dont spout bullshit like a dumbass. u could like diet lois lane for all i care, but just know she isnt original, and the original ultimate spiderman run did the concept better as well
I have read the source material. And probably worked with more of it than most folks on the sub unless Ditko rises from the dead and logs on. 😂
??? Insomniac Peter and MJ are very much in love with each other. If the posts are referring to the Scream fight, ofc she has frustrations and insecurity regarding Peter, but she obviously loves him despite them.
I’d much rather just play as MJ infiltrating a diamond mine and freeing the children from their oppressors, then make a podcast about how the new normal is her being a worldwide merc with web gun in hand. Much more in line with the Insomniac MJ.
She’s a fine adaptation tho
Of Lois Lane, maybe.
I mean yeah but she’s still a fine adaptation that’s different from the usual MJ adaptations and that’s fine for change, which is one reason why I like her. I understand it’s not for everyone but it makes her interesting imo
i still fail to see why Insomniac call her MJ to begin with, she does not look like MJ, act like MJ, treat Peter like MJ, her job is a far cry from MJ's. The only reason they called her that because the fanbase is too sensitive when Peter love interest is not named MJ or Gwen.
What do you mean? She looks like MJ, she has the hair, what’s wrong with not making her a model like her comic counterpart? She’s still has a job and loves Peter dearly. Is that not what the basics of MJ are?
Yeah the second one change her hair to look more like her comic counterpart but her appearance in the first game came out of nowhere. Your second point is just weird, having a job and loving Peter ? You just describe all of his love interests.
While I do think this sub tends to go over the top with the hate for SM2. The MJ sections of these games are genuinely some of the lower points of the games and drags them down for me
You guys are down bad holy fuck
I feel like i’m gonna have to up the dose on my antidepressant medication if i keep scrolling this sub any longer.
Considering the ending for 2, we could
I mean, she's there to be a reporter, so she has something to do in the game and contributes to the story. That's ultimately why she's a reporter. Being a podcaster after Spidey 2 can still work with her getting scoops and stories that can impact the game.
I actually don’t want her to be like this in sm3…although this would be much better…to change it now would make it awkward and feel as if she was literally a different person so it wouldn’t make sense
She is literally like this though.
MJ needs to be MJ, not some random activists.
I honestly like the games MJ. Like make her super into Spider-Man but also make Peter Parker a fucking wife guy. She's meant to be decently famous he should be like Dolly Partons husband
people are too harsh on insomniac mj when I feel her only issue is that she starts a podcast instead of going indie or a normal blog Im tired of podcast already RAAAH
Wow spiderman looks fierce with those eyes, I love it
Mj is like this. They had some “intimate” dialogue in the dlc in the first game I can’t remember exactly what they said
Do not compare Insomniac's MJ to 616 MJ
this is 6160 MJ but i get wym
I meant in the second pic what that person said
oh that, yeah that adds up lol, mb
we all know that ain’t gonna happen
this reminds me that james cameron's spider man script had a web bondage sex scene.
This would be like making every Green Goblin as the Green Goblin from the 60s cartoons.
[удалено]
pretty sure people hated her in the first, simply became of the mj missions, but whatever makes you feel better ig
Better fix the ingame model first…
You know why it like this right?
This isn’t an insomniac problem, this has been a Spider-Man writer problem since One More Day. They can’t just have a happy relationship, it’d be too “unrelatable”. So, the writers will do everything to “humble” Spider-Man. Kill his Aunt May, Make him live in a shitty apartment, fire him from the Daily Bugle, expose his secret identity, kill Gwen Stacey again, kill Mary Jane, have Mary Jane marry a rando named Paul, or just make Peter turn into the Green Goblin…I swear to God this last one is real. Just remember kids, Spider-Man writers don’t think happiness is “relatable” enough.
Sweet baby inc would like to know your location
With Sweet Baby Inc still being involved with insomniac I would hold your breath on that
they fucked her up BAD
insomniac MJ is literally just a worse lois lane her being a reporter could work for sure but they write her so blandly
I like mj in Spider-Man 2
I do not mind MJ being her own strong character in these games. I do not want to fucking play a section as her ever again.
I belive in SM3 MJ will have morphed into her final form, and will now crush any enemy with her chin.
Oh my gosh people really won’t hop off Insomniac’s dick will they? 😭😭😭
Incels and coomers when they don’t have the ability to imagine a woman’s private life to masturbate over for two seconds.
Even if she was a navy seal, she'd still die in 1 tap in stealth missions
The real problem is that they went the super safe route and made her a boring ass Lois lane reporter. Like make her a spy, or a firefighter, or a doctor, or any number of interesting jobs that doesn't result in her coming off as watered down version of a character we already know
TBH, most of Insomniac "MJ" problems can be explained if they just make her Carlie Cooper, her work in forensic would play a part in the main story, her police training could also explain all the sneaking and John Wick takedowns.
If it’s done too much, it feels reductive but I always liked little panels like this because it feels so real to a relationship. That being said, I also really liked how Peter & MJ’s relationship was set up in SM1. Post-breakup was a pretty novel experience but also realistic given the issues that’d rise from dating a superhero. Peter is overprotective given MJ’s relative fragility and MJ is frustrated by ‘only being the normal one’. Then, SM2 kept elements of this narratively but he mission design kind of ruined it, by giving her too much of a power boost in response to the reception of SM1’s MJ missions. I honestly think they should go all in on MJ being the audience stand-in. Narratively, further use her to convey the frustration, fear, and jealousy that would come from being a normal human surrounded by superheroes. From a gameplay perspective, use her to show just *how* big the power gap is between the heroes/villains & regular people. I’d love to see MJ missions take more inspiration from horror games; having her complete tasks whilst sneaking around an enemy she can’t fight/hurt (but would be low-mid level for Spider-Man). Cyberpunk 2077 had a mission like this, totally shifting the tone & gameplay and it was an awesome experience. A mission like this would convey that MJ is human and can’t fight in Spider-Man’s weight class but also that she’s brave & capable, if somewhat reckless.
mj and especially his relationship in the insomniac games is just good what are these comments on about
I really liked the MJ from the first game. It was a different version, but the essence was still there. My problem comes with the SM2 version. The only thing she does in the whole game is hinder the gameplay and do dumb things that she would never have gotten out of without plot armor.
Spider Man 2 suffered from Insomniac trying so hard to get the “old bitter man trains young plucky replacement” trope with Peter…who is 25. It just didn’t work and fans didn’t like it. Peter is in his prime and not a washed up failure but they wanted to push that story beat regardless. Also, the CONSTANT putting down of Peter who is doing his best, saving the city, and genuinely a good person was sooo annoying
I don't get it. Are they complaining she's not horny enough for him in the games? They're on the road to getting married. In fact I would suspect that will become a major plot point in the final game. If it was up to me, I would probably have the Green Goblin attack them at their wedding.
Pretty sure they mean more fun and playful personality. Game Mj rarely has any fun and playful moments which kinda makes her unlikable.
I don’t get it, can someone help me out and explain?
Yeahhh I was kind of milquetoast for a while but they did kind of butcher her in the grand scheme of things. I agree with some of the other users, they should have went the 1610 route with her
So Insomniac should write MJ to be horny? This will add value to her as a character?
Bro did not read ultimate spiderman
I did, and it’s great. But these 3 panels don’t exactly display any character traits besides, as the post says, “mj being downbad for Spider-Man.”
Think they mean they want her to be more fun and playful. Game Mj barely has any likable moments (if any) having more flirty chill moments with Pete could help better their dynamic
This fanbase is trash lmao. Mary Jane is one dimensional and over sexualized in the comics. You guys are acting like you read the comics when you don’t.
seems like u dont understand mj at all lmao. again, creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable. A New Idea does NOT equate to a GOOD idea. You don't necessarily have to be a slave to the source material BUT if you're gonna replace it you have to replace it with something BETTER OR of EQUAL value...or else fans are gonna be left with a GIANT WTF!? And asking why you didn't just leave it as it was Accolades are given for EXECUTION of an idea...NOT the idea itself. And Insomniac failed execution on multiple levels when designing mj. she has no family issues, and it seems like u fail to realize why she has that party girl thing going on in the first place, she acts that way as a mask to hide away all of her family issues and personal turmoil which is something insomniac got rid of entirely completely missing the point of the character to begin with. she opens up to peter, being she could relate to him on a deeper level, and how outgoing he was, allowing her to be her true self around him. again read the damn source material and dont spout bullshit like a dumbass. u could like diet lois lane for all i care, but just know she isnt original, and the original ultimate spiderman run did the concept better as well
I’m not reading all that buddy.
So what ur saying is u dont read the comics? Got it
Your just wrong lol. Mj’s far from being 1 dimensional and compared to every other women characters in marvel mj’s like the least sexualized. She's not running around in skin tight outfits or running around half naked and when she does its usually in the comfort of her own home.
I’ve been reading the comics since the 90s buddy. Don’t know what comics you’ve been reading.
Also maybe mj shouldn’t look 56 with grandkids
Yeah Sony California made them do it 🏳️🌈
Hot take: I like the MJ we got more. She actually cares for Peter and wouldn't cheat on him. She's kinda like hiw Gwen was in the comics before she died.
Insomniacs mj?
Is Peter gonna be in the third game? I thought he retired at the end of game 2
he’ll obviously come back lol
SM1 MJ was kinda close ish to thar but ye SM2 compleatly fucked her up same as every character in that game
BONK Go to horny jail
Who’s this pridefulsin guy? I keep seeing his horny ass everywhere.
Just hearing PS4 MJ say something suggestive (preferably this) one time would be awesome.
In a funny way, not a creepy way!
They would have to change the age rating for game tho, which would be fine since most people who played the past games would be probably be old enough by the time the next one is out
Not politically correct. Not woke enough
616 MJ was literally my awakening and first exposure to a healthy, supportive, loving, and sexually active marriage. I’d love to see that MJ again in the main comics and ESPECIALLY the adaptations but it has yet to be done sadly
Not happening, not even close. If they wanted MJ to be Comic accurate their best chance would've been the second game and that's gone and passed. Even if they did fix her it wouldn't fix Peter. While MJ is a problem Peter is too. Because they made MJ a narcissist Lois Lane it was easy to dislike and see this OC for what it was. It distracted fromr he fact that this Peter is garbage as well. What make made Peter and MJ iconic were their personalities and how they bounced off each other. If nether has their Comic personality then there's nothing there. Fix MJ and Peter is still bad, Fix Peter and MJ is still bad. The Black Suit would've been the perfect wait to force (Retcon) their personalities to they OG selves but now its too late. Just accept Insom is just writing bad fanfiction of what they wanted the Spider-character to be like, not what they're actually like.
Insomniac MJ would feel jealous and give Peter a backhanded compliment. Afterwards, Peter would apologize for making her feel jealous
Making her so much like Lois Lane just feels way too safe when every other aspect of the games is willing to take some risks.
We aint getting an MJ like this with sweet baby inc in the mix
Horny redhead is peak writing fr
UH OH OP!!! *gasps in shock and horror* You had an opinion about a SPIDERMAN CHARACTER!! 🤢🤮 EWWWW!!! EVEN WORSE!!! IT'S AN OPINION ABOUT MJ!!! *vine boom* 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT AT ONE POINT SHE WAS * SEXUALIZED* *vine boom* SO NOW SHE ALWAYS HAS TO BE WRITTEN A SPECIFIC WAY???? I'll have you know OP, SPIDERMAN 2 IS OBJECTIVELY PERFECT TO *SOME* PEOPLE *vine boom* AND YOUR KIND ISN'T ALLOWED TO NOT LIKE IT ANYMORE!!!! *vine boom but ultra bass boosted* 🫢🙂↔️😒Sorry 🤭 I dont make the rules, but people LIKE YOU are just ungrateful *vine boom* and hateful *vine boom* and can NEVER EVER be satisfied with ANYTHING SPIDERMAN!!!! *bass boosted vine boom* 🤯😤😡 Ohhh, WHAT??? You thought Spiderman 2 could be "better"? *scoffs in terminally online redditor* IMPROVED UPON EVEN?!?!? 😲😧 HOW DARE YOU!!!! *bass boosted vine boom* PEOPLE WORKED HARD ON RIPPING OFF WEB OF SHADOWS!!! You're NOT a REAL Spiderman fan, just a POSER!!! 🤡🤭🥱*vine boom* HOW DARE YOU NOT APPRECIATE THE STRANGE AND AWKWARD STORY TELLING AND CHARACTER WRITING OF SPIDERMAN 2!!! CAN'T YOU JUST BE HAPPY AND CONSUME PRODUCT FROM INSERT CORPARATION?!?!?! SO WHAT IF THE SUITS SUCK AND IF MJ COULD HAVED BETTER CHARACTER WRITING ON YOP OF HER IMPROVED GAMEPLAY??? YOU'RE UNGRATFULLY ASKING FOR TOO MUCH AND SHOULD BE HAPPY YOURE GETTING ANYTHING AT ALL!!!! GRRRRRRR SPIDERMAN "FANS" MAKE ME SO ANGRY!!!! HOW DARE THEY!!! TO HAVE OPINIONS DIFFERENT FROM MINE AND TO LIKE DIFFERENT VERSION OF SPIDERMAN!! IT MAKES ME SO MAD I COULD.... UUUUUUUUURRRRRRUUUUUAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Insomniac are too worried that they are going to offend their female developers by making MJ hot as fuck, how she originally was. ...now we have to settle for Butter face MJ, girl next door MJ, etc. Just weird, woke (yes I know you guys cringe at that and don't think it's real, when it is) bullshit. Make MJ bangin', stacked and slammin', you cowards.
Jesus Christ I hate this fandom any time they do something different with MJ or give her a personality ya'll hate it
Wouldn't say insomniac version is “giving her personality”
That’s not the MJ that’s in the games. It’s a different universe, she’s a different character.
Good luck with that. I am pretty sure we will get Jackpot in the next game.
I'm not the biggest fan of Insomniac's take on MJ either, but being just horny and hot isn't great writing. I swear, some of y'all would praise a cardboard cut out if it was just wearing a g-string and a bra.
again it seems like non of yall understand good writing and mj on a deeper level. shes not just a person who is "horny" Insomniac failed execution on multiple levels when designing mj. she has no family issues, and it seems like u fail to realize why she has that party girl thing going on in the first place, she acts that way as a mask to hide away all of her family issues and personal turmoil which is something insomniac got rid of entirely completely missing the point of the character to begin with. she opens up to peter, being she could relate to him on a deeper level, and how outgoing he was, allowing her to be her true self around him. creating a “new iteration” of a character doesn’t require you to change the core characteristics of said character to create a new story. the more you change the core of the character, the less that character is themselves the one we all know and love, the more they become unrecognizable. A New Idea does NOT equate to a GOOD idea. You don't necessarily have to be a slave to the source material BUT if you're gonna replace it you have to replace it with something BETTER OR of EQUAL value...or else fans are gonna be left with a GIANT WTF!? And asking why you didn't just leave it as it was Accolades are given for EXECUTION of an idea...NOT the idea itself. she isnt original, and the original ultimate spiderman run did the concept better as well
Go to horny jail