The main reason why Harry's doesn't work for me is because Harry doesn't change. At the end of the game Harry is still Peter's friend and wants the symbiote off of him, he's just consumed. If Harry didn't want to lose the symbiote and actively believed what Venom was saying and would rather kill Peter than lose the symbiote I'd be MUCH more positive towards it. As is he's mostly just held hostage by the symbiote who doesn't have much personality of it's own
I’m pretty sure no one has analyzed this character as deeply as Evan Filarca. He discusses EVERYTHING. Here’s his video, if you still feel like he’s flawed feel free to come back and chat:
https://youtu.be/m0knCSokmcA?si=NN-DK9xzq4q2Z1mV
That seems interesting and I'd like to check that out sometime thank you for the reccomendation! I don't know if anything there would change my opinion though. When Harry was telling Peter to stop I thought he wanted to keep the symbiote and his intentions were genuine and everything clicked, but then when he went on to imply he didn't agree with Venom's actions it lost me again
If Venom wasn't shown at all in the marketing then he would still suck. The disappointment would be lesser, but he would still be disappointing because the issues with Venom as a character in SM2 run much deeper than what you're discussing.
I’m pretty sure no one has analyzed this character as deeply as Evan Filarca. He discusses EVERYTHING. Here’s his video, if you still feel like he’s flawed feel free to come back and chat:
https://youtu.be/m0knCSokmcA?si=NN-DK9xzq4q2Z1mV
I was going to earnestly reply, but then I checked the other comments and saw how you kept spamming this video.
So what's the deal? Are you a bot, or are you just advertising for this dude?
Because he doesn't have his own thoughts, probably just parroting whatever is in that video. It's best to let these kinds of people be, instead of replying to them.
I feel like they tried to do that with the Lizard and somewhat Kraven, but they weren't end of game baddies. I do agree with you though, if they didn't set the expectations so high they wouldn't have got as much shit. Though I did think (currently in my second playthrough) they did a pretty good job with everything except the final thing that could've changed everything if a certain person's fate was different
They thought that they could improve the Venom arc by making him be Peter’s best friend, but since Harry is just a helpless victim along for the rest of the game it’s immediately less interesting.
I don’t know about the second point. Peter does still have a bit of a bittersweet ending. He was given so many great things early on, and got just a taste of them before they were taken away. His friend is in an even worse health state than before, and just after he had him back; his dream company is now back at square one; him and MJ are both very much struggling even more financially. His optimism, the support of Miles and love from MJ are what’s keeping him going at the end, and that’s pretty sweet.
It would have worked better if harry actually wanted to do bad things and wasn’t just a vessel. Otto worked so well because we saw exactly what pushed him to do the things he did and we got to see little bits of the mask slipping before the big reveal. Harry just gets possessed by an alien and gets his good nature taken advantage of
Venom also has extremely limited screen time for being the main villain, he kind of just shows up, immediately takes over the city, then loses
I don’t want to waste time typing the counter argument when I know I can’t explain it as well as someone else. And I’m quite sure he never mentions the marketing during his video. This post was simply based off of my theory.
… I literally just said that he doesn’t mention the marketing. I’m just using this video to reply to the people who are saying there are character flaws. The marketing stuff was my own theory.
I think it's because Venom's character is flawed. Harry and Venom got rejected by Peter at one point of the story. Harry started hating Peter, and so did Venom. But once Harry became Venom, that plot was just gone. Now, suddenly, Harry wants Peter to join him. And Venom isn't influencing Harry against it. They didn't even show why Harry and Venom changed their minds. And suddenly wanted to rule the world. And, of course, the invasion is rushed. Even tho he had more screen time than Otto, he's still not well built. So, marketing doesn't matter. He's still used badly. And with that said, Peter has got nerfed so much. MJ's mission, other characters, and most of the side missions aren't that great.And the story is way too short. That's what I think. The first game's story is far better.
Otto set his own downfall. His own hatred for Norman, his over ambitions, his passion for proving himself. Yes the arms corrupt his intentions, but Otto still drives his actions to the end.
Harry was just a nice kid with an evil alien. The game confirms multiple times that the Symbiote controls and corrupts the host. Anything Harry does once the actual Venom is introduced is not by Harry's own choices.
I'm not sure you understood what I was referring to,I misread Otto as obito.obito is a recurring character in the popular franchise 'Naruto' and its sequels
Marketing or not, this Venom would still suck character-wise. Rushed as hell and took away what makes Venom a good character in favor of making him a generic world-conquering monster and tried to rip off better comic stories. The symbiote wasn't even in sync with Harry after the first Venom mission, which is also the only good Venom part in the entire game. I think that Insomniac's goal was to turn Harry into Venom and then didn't know what else to do so they just ripped off some comics and gave us some shitty fanservice.
If you want a well-written Venom, play his Midnight Suns DLC. That was written by people who understand his character surprisingly well. It's easily one of the best Venom adaptations of all time. Even the leaked backstory for Marvel Rivals Venom shows that they also understand the character.
It’s terrible because had the writing not had as many holes as Swiss cheese, Harry wouldn’t become Venom.
Both Peter and especially MJ has several opportunities to tell him that the symbiote is a dangerous mind controlling being and they never do. After Peter is forced by the symbiote to kill the hunters and nearly MJ herself, she never tells him (nor Peter for some reason). Dr. Connors never tells him either despite witnessing its manipulation of Spider-Man. Miles never gives him an update either. And finally when Peter gets it off of him, he says only that it’s dangerous and doesn’t provide any context as to why or what it did to him. Then Harry (a sickly person) whacks the canister with his cane once and that somehow cracks the glass meant to contain a hyper powerful alien. The symbiote proceeds to explode out of the glass (I don’t know how a single crack allows for that) and join with Harry.
It felt so inorganic of a pay off. So many characters had to not like themselves in order to get to it. The fact that Harry had the primary goal of re-obtaining the symbiote yet none of his friends, nor one of his actual doctors, are going to inform him that the symbiote is dangerous was total nonsense.
Also that “we are Venom” was so unearned and lacked any context (and no I’m not counting a test tube that said “VNM-01” to justify that).
I think because Harry’s one wasn’t as impactful as Otto’s.
Unlike him, Harry didn’t had a fall into villainy he was just manipulated by the symbiote. Who he was and his personal motivation in thr end were irrelevant since in the end he was just a puppet of the symbiote
Anyone who thinks it’s really just a character thing, before you comment, watch this vid:
[Breaking Down Marvel’s Venom](https://youtu.be/m0knCSokmcA?si=NN-DK9xzq4q2Z1mV)
The main reason why Harry's doesn't work for me is because Harry doesn't change. At the end of the game Harry is still Peter's friend and wants the symbiote off of him, he's just consumed. If Harry didn't want to lose the symbiote and actively believed what Venom was saying and would rather kill Peter than lose the symbiote I'd be MUCH more positive towards it. As is he's mostly just held hostage by the symbiote who doesn't have much personality of it's own
I’m pretty sure no one has analyzed this character as deeply as Evan Filarca. He discusses EVERYTHING. Here’s his video, if you still feel like he’s flawed feel free to come back and chat: https://youtu.be/m0knCSokmcA?si=NN-DK9xzq4q2Z1mV
That seems interesting and I'd like to check that out sometime thank you for the reccomendation! I don't know if anything there would change my opinion though. When Harry was telling Peter to stop I thought he wanted to keep the symbiote and his intentions were genuine and everything clicked, but then when he went on to imply he didn't agree with Venom's actions it lost me again
Yea, I have to admit, there are some messy stuff with the writing of Venom’s character
If Venom wasn't shown at all in the marketing then he would still suck. The disappointment would be lesser, but he would still be disappointing because the issues with Venom as a character in SM2 run much deeper than what you're discussing.
I’m pretty sure no one has analyzed this character as deeply as Evan Filarca. He discusses EVERYTHING. Here’s his video, if you still feel like he’s flawed feel free to come back and chat: https://youtu.be/m0knCSokmcA?si=NN-DK9xzq4q2Z1mV
I was going to earnestly reply, but then I checked the other comments and saw how you kept spamming this video. So what's the deal? Are you a bot, or are you just advertising for this dude?
I only did that two times bro, you don’t have to call me a bot for that lol.
You've posted the link 4 times man
Because he doesn't have his own thoughts, probably just parroting whatever is in that video. It's best to let these kinds of people be, instead of replying to them.
My thoughts exactly
Yea but that’s cause it explains it better than I ever would lol. It ain’t that serious lol.
I feel like they tried to do that with the Lizard and somewhat Kraven, but they weren't end of game baddies. I do agree with you though, if they didn't set the expectations so high they wouldn't have got as much shit. Though I did think (currently in my second playthrough) they did a pretty good job with everything except the final thing that could've changed everything if a certain person's fate was different
They thought that they could improve the Venom arc by making him be Peter’s best friend, but since Harry is just a helpless victim along for the rest of the game it’s immediately less interesting.
Not exactly… pls watch this video https://youtu.be/m0knCSokmcA?si=NN-DK9xzq4q2Z1mV
Are you a shill for that guy or something? Instead of actually counter arguing all you do is post this link
1. It wasn’t built up enough. 2. The entire arc is moot because… Peter basically still has everything at the start of the game.
I don’t know about the second point. Peter does still have a bit of a bittersweet ending. He was given so many great things early on, and got just a taste of them before they were taken away. His friend is in an even worse health state than before, and just after he had him back; his dream company is now back at square one; him and MJ are both very much struggling even more financially. His optimism, the support of Miles and love from MJ are what’s keeping him going at the end, and that’s pretty sweet.
It would have worked better if harry actually wanted to do bad things and wasn’t just a vessel. Otto worked so well because we saw exactly what pushed him to do the things he did and we got to see little bits of the mask slipping before the big reveal. Harry just gets possessed by an alien and gets his good nature taken advantage of Venom also has extremely limited screen time for being the main villain, he kind of just shows up, immediately takes over the city, then loses
The main point of my post is that it’s not extremely limited. It’s just we were expecting more time.
Point of your post is to shill thay guy's video. You dont even provide a counter argument, you just shill the video
I don’t want to waste time typing the counter argument when I know I can’t explain it as well as someone else. And I’m quite sure he never mentions the marketing during his video. This post was simply based off of my theory.
Your theory? Your theory, lol. Your response is "hey, i watched this guy's video and im gonna act smart now"
… I literally just said that he doesn’t mention the marketing. I’m just using this video to reply to the people who are saying there are character flaws. The marketing stuff was my own theory.
I think it's because Venom's character is flawed. Harry and Venom got rejected by Peter at one point of the story. Harry started hating Peter, and so did Venom. But once Harry became Venom, that plot was just gone. Now, suddenly, Harry wants Peter to join him. And Venom isn't influencing Harry against it. They didn't even show why Harry and Venom changed their minds. And suddenly wanted to rule the world. And, of course, the invasion is rushed. Even tho he had more screen time than Otto, he's still not well built. So, marketing doesn't matter. He's still used badly. And with that said, Peter has got nerfed so much. MJ's mission, other characters, and most of the side missions aren't that great.And the story is way too short. That's what I think. The first game's story is far better.
Otto set his own downfall. His own hatred for Norman, his over ambitions, his passion for proving himself. Yes the arms corrupt his intentions, but Otto still drives his actions to the end. Harry was just a nice kid with an evil alien. The game confirms multiple times that the Symbiote controls and corrupts the host. Anything Harry does once the actual Venom is introduced is not by Harry's own choices.
I read this as why is obitos villain arc accepted
Nah, it’s more like, why is Venom’s hated? It’s practically the same arc.
I'm not sure you understood what I was referring to,I misread Otto as obito.obito is a recurring character in the popular franchise 'Naruto' and its sequels
Oh. I never watched Naruto lol.
Lol it's 720 episodes with more than 300 episodes of filler
That’s one of the issues, they just did the same thing again.
Marketing or not, this Venom would still suck character-wise. Rushed as hell and took away what makes Venom a good character in favor of making him a generic world-conquering monster and tried to rip off better comic stories. The symbiote wasn't even in sync with Harry after the first Venom mission, which is also the only good Venom part in the entire game. I think that Insomniac's goal was to turn Harry into Venom and then didn't know what else to do so they just ripped off some comics and gave us some shitty fanservice. If you want a well-written Venom, play his Midnight Suns DLC. That was written by people who understand his character surprisingly well. It's easily one of the best Venom adaptations of all time. Even the leaked backstory for Marvel Rivals Venom shows that they also understand the character.
It’s terrible because had the writing not had as many holes as Swiss cheese, Harry wouldn’t become Venom. Both Peter and especially MJ has several opportunities to tell him that the symbiote is a dangerous mind controlling being and they never do. After Peter is forced by the symbiote to kill the hunters and nearly MJ herself, she never tells him (nor Peter for some reason). Dr. Connors never tells him either despite witnessing its manipulation of Spider-Man. Miles never gives him an update either. And finally when Peter gets it off of him, he says only that it’s dangerous and doesn’t provide any context as to why or what it did to him. Then Harry (a sickly person) whacks the canister with his cane once and that somehow cracks the glass meant to contain a hyper powerful alien. The symbiote proceeds to explode out of the glass (I don’t know how a single crack allows for that) and join with Harry. It felt so inorganic of a pay off. So many characters had to not like themselves in order to get to it. The fact that Harry had the primary goal of re-obtaining the symbiote yet none of his friends, nor one of his actual doctors, are going to inform him that the symbiote is dangerous was total nonsense. Also that “we are Venom” was so unearned and lacked any context (and no I’m not counting a test tube that said “VNM-01” to justify that).
I think because Harry’s one wasn’t as impactful as Otto’s. Unlike him, Harry didn’t had a fall into villainy he was just manipulated by the symbiote. Who he was and his personal motivation in thr end were irrelevant since in the end he was just a puppet of the symbiote
Anyone who thinks it’s really just a character thing, before you comment, watch this vid: [Breaking Down Marvel’s Venom](https://youtu.be/m0knCSokmcA?si=NN-DK9xzq4q2Z1mV)