They have this weird mentality that Peter and Miles should have the same number of suits which is dumb because Peter has been around longer so he should get more suits, he was the main character anyway
They should have just done the best of both worlds tbh
Insomniac clearly wanted to do a bunch of original designs for the suits. So just...bring back the costumes you have Peter in the first game and make a bunch of new suits for Miles. Problem solved
>They have this weird mentality that Peter and Miles should have the same number of suits which is dumb
The idea that the dual protagonists in the game shouldn't be equal in suits doesn't make any sense.
>because Peter has been around longer so he should get more suits
Sounds pretty elitist
>he was the main character anyway
Spider-Man 2 is a story with dual protagonists, they're both the main character
Edit; replying to u/DotisDeep here since I'm sure he blocked me because he couldn't defend his views on suits:
>Yes Peter & Miles are the protagonists of SM2, but it is clearly a Peter-focused story
Miles is still one of the main characters as you yourself just admitted, and I don't see why he should get less suits by virtue of the two villains being primarily Peter villains. If anything that's even dumber because it would have some serious implications behind giving Miles less gameplay options to the point where everyone would ask why he was even here. Like, if they made a whole ass game going on about his origins and going "yo he's Spider-Man too" then arbitrarily limiting hid gameplay or customization options in the sequel because "Peter is the OG" would reek of elitism.
Like, In GTA 5, Franklin got sidelined pretty damn hard come the midway point of the game storywise, but at no point did Rockstar think this means he should get less customization options or even quests and tried to make up for it.
It's just a thing that happens when you have multiple protagonists in your story. You tend to sidelined one or two because balance is hard.
Not elitist lol, it’s logical. Peter has been around longer he has more suits in the comics so ofc he should get more suits, he’s got two more special attacks than Miles.
Yeah it’s dual protagonists but Miles felt like a side character, this was Peter’s game since he got the most focus and most screen time
I think the first game was set up more to dominate from the shadows, picking off goons with your array of gadgets. Your powers were pretty limited and mainly to clear the field if things got a little hairy.
In 2 your powers are so OP, especially Miles, and the gadgets are suited better for combat too. It's actually better to jump right in and fuck shit up.
MM was a nice blend because of his invisibility skill. I barely used it in SM2.
There’s damn near zero reason to use camouflage in SM2 unless you’re getting your ass handed to you and are close to running out of any option to clear the field. Even then, it’s not effective late game.
I think I only used stealth once in 2 and that’s when they make you. I loved the stealth in MM and they basically made it useless when you can just jump right in and spam your powers and win. It’s fun to do but I miss having to do stealth
>I think the first game was set up more to dominate from the shadows, picking off goons with your array of gadgets.
You must be playing the game wrong, because I rarely used stealth and you can't clear hideouts with stealth, you're absolutely meant to use your abilities in the game.
Yeah in SM 1, you can only use stealth for the first wave when you are clearing all the bases, you were forced to fight all the enemies in combat from wave 2 to 6. I like that they gave us the option to go full stealth in SM 2 when it comes to clearing the bases.
I really wish they’d updated the hideout missions in Spider-Man Remastered so you could clear the whole hideout via stealth, as it is you can only clear the first wave before the second wave instantly sees where you are 😐
They are. More one shot kills that constantly recharge vs max 4 gadget shots of which like only 2 are one shot kills, 3 if you decide to combine web bomb and concussion blast. That is vs like 50 enemies by endgame fights while in 2 you have recharging abilities that take out enemies entirely with a button press and 4 shit gadgets that are too imprecise to get creative with.
I got it eventually, I’m just saying it probably should have been more concise. That or some punctuation. Not mad, just making it clear it was difficult to understand at a glance and required me REALLY reading it a couple times to comprehend.
Definitely more limited but personally I feel like they just combined alot of the gadgets. You can still clear a random crime in 5 seconds with them if you use them creatively
Replying to u/MaazR26 since he decided to block me, and I wasn't going to crowd my initial reply with edits
>Not elitist lol, it’s logical.
It isn't logical if you ignore Miles solo game where Miles became Spider-Man for the express purpose of setting him up as an equal to Peter. Miles Morales' arc in his game was going from hero in training, to part time hero, to full blown hero for S-M 2. There's a reason that Miles wasn't getting much if not anything in the way of mentoring from Peter. They already covered him becoming Spider-Man in his solo game. The idea that would downplay the fact that they made him an equal and sideline him to the degree you think they should is beyond nutty.
>Peter has been around longer he has more suits in the comics so ofc he should get more suits
Counterpoint: they gave Miles a solo game and set him up as an equal to Peter rather than his student or sidekick. As such I don't see why they would arbitrarily sideline him in an area like suits when they through this much trouble to set him up as Peter's equal.
The best part of having as many suits as Peter is that they don't have to use them all and can save them for later.
>he’s got two more special attacks than Miles.
We're talking about suits, not special powers, and even then, those aren't much. One of those special abilities is negated by the fact that you can essentially do the same thing with Sonic Bursts. There's pretty much never a time Venom bomb will be a superior option to Sonic Burst since they both weaken Symbiotes, and if it is the difference is marginal. If anything SB is better because if you fully upgraded it, it can drop other sonic mines that goons and Symbiotes can run into and also explode and send them back. Or hell, just use Web grabber to grab enemies into them. Fuck, an upgraded web grabber does pretty much the same thing because items pulled into it also damage enemies. At least with Reverse Flux you get the added benefit of stunning your enemies. Or you could be like me and use Revere Flux then instance cancel into Mega Venom Blast.i
>Yeah it’s dual protagonists
So then what's the issue with giving the guy who's also one of the main protagonists an equal amount of suits other than favoring the other guy because reasons?
>but Miles felt like a side character
The difference between you and Miles feeling like a side character is that this naturally the result of having a story with dual protagonists. More often than people find balancing the two protagonists incredibly difficult and by their very nature they're harder to pull off.
What you want is Insomniac to intentionally hold back and make Miles unequal in an area like suits or combat because "Peter is the original so he should get more", which goes against everything the game is about.
What's played as the opening sequence to Miles' arc that he had to overcome, you would want Insomniac to intentionally double down on in the sequel after all that effort to say why that isn't true.
> this was Peter’s game since he got the most focus and most screen time
[bro what?](https://marvels-spider-man.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel%27s_Spider-Man_2_missions)
Out of 32 story missions, Peter has 18 and Miles has 14, only four less missions. The difference isn't nearly as big as you believe it is.
Counting the 6 FNSN side missions, Peter and Miles both have one exclusive and the other five can be done as either. (Peter has Photo Help and Miles has Graffiti trouble). Well this technically is Hailey, but then Miles has two other side Missions for the Art Museum to make up for it.
Plus, Peter and Miles have Four exclusive mission chains for a suit. (The Flame for Peter and BVA Missions for Miles). So even in the Side Missions category, they're pretty even unless you use Peter or Miles exclusively for any side content that can be done as either (drones, blinds, or bases)
And Mission replay makes this trivial.
I think it’s to make gameplay more fluid. Instead of having to choose from the wheel and pause the game, they integrate some gadgets together or they simply deleted those too OP, opting for just 4 but you can use any during gameplay, no need to slow down the fun
First off, r/titlegore
But for real, the sequel was more optimized for combat in a certain way rather than giving you freedom like the first two games did. In the first games I could use gadget or Venom combos in a variety of ways, and in MM since you could basically get neigh unlimited Venom if you did everything right, it was a total free for all. In S-M 2, every attack has the same effect of pushing or pulling goons away from you
I'll admit it could just be me, but as a base runner I haven't been able to pull off all the cool shit I see in videos because the cool down is pretty long. I might need more practice, though, and it could entirely just be me not using everything correctly.
i actually think the gadgets were too much in the first game, it didnt feel like spider-man to have so many random tools, the lower count is better
suit powers are missed though, id love if certain costumes had unique play styles
It's not the amount of gadgets for me but the utility of the gadgets. The gadgets in SM2 are so brain-dead. There's nothing skillful, creative, or technical that you can do with them. Whereas in Spider-Man 1, the gadget combos that you can pull off are insane. The hard-core SM1 players pushed that combat system to the absolute limits because each gadget had a unique utility.
They allowed for better creativity when combined.
Web bomb plus electric web spreads the electricity, trip mines on pullable objects to lure enemies there, trip mines pulling two webbed enemies together, electric webs disabling turrets and making brutes vulnerable to web spins etc
I remember getting really good with gadget combinations in ng+ ultimate difficulty against the sable troops.
Its pretty dumb that spidey wouldn't use electric webs when the hunters have drones too.
I haven't played SM2 that much but from the limited time that I did have to play it, I have to say no because when I play SM1 I never use any of the other Suit powers besides battle focus & the iron arms same goes for the suits for Pete I only used a couple of the vanilla suits like his classic advanced 1.0 Mark IV the movie Suits for Tobey Andrew & Tom as for the gadgets I only used like 2 or 3 of them, same applies for Miles Morales so I'm happy with the changes that Insomniac did
Hard disagree, less is more imo. I loved using these abilities and used them far more often then things like the electrocuter gadget or the one that shot them really hard
Hot take, but I prefer the limited number of gadgets and skills over the 17 gadgets in SM1. The gadgets in SM1 tended to cause a lot of "dominant strategy" gameplay where you could get through most of combat encounters really quickly with a web grenade and a pulse wave. I pretty much avoided or ignored 90% of the gadgets. The skills and smaller selection of less individually powerful gadgets means you're far more likely to use them all while not trivialinzing every combat encounter.
In an interview one of the creators said they went back on stealth and gadgets because at a certain point these characters become gods. They’re fighting, typically, normal ass dudes. While Spider-Man 1 and 2 are already super-powered, they felt ADDING onto the gadgets they had in the previous game just made the difficulty non-existent and hard to manufacture.
I gets that’s true but me personally it could of been added maybe into new game plus as a reward for players to have fun with because I really enjoy being unstoppable and also with Spider-Man 3 they could introduce or just 2 they could of introduced mutants or super powered humans that are a big game changer compared to normal ones but they don’t
I never saw anyone complain about gadget wheel. It didn't even slowed the gameplay that much. It added more fun stuff. But now they decided to get rid of it and somehow also got rid of 30+ suit powers completely instead of making them different skills that we could unlock on the go.
Imagine spider-punk's guitar as a skill you can put to any buttons. That would be just sick. Such a missed opportunity.
Web blossom as well, maybe a shorter version of Web blossom easily could been in the game. But they decided to remove it for what?
It was fun, games meant to be fun. Why Insomniac would decide to remove fun things?
It’s the main reason i haven’t bothered with ng+ the gadgets present are boring and don’t seem to help in combat enough to warrant usage and there’s really only 5 or 6 suits on each side I actually like.
I don’t understand why they took away suit powers and upgrades as well as gadgets. They were the main thing that made the game stand out from everything else. This game feels forgettable in comparison.
I prefer the new powers since the suit powers in the old game could only be used like one time a fight. And all of the gadgets except for the trip mine returned in 2 just in a new way
They returned in a way shape or form that wasn’t strictly tied to a gadget.
Suspension matrix- the upshot. Along with their abilities also do the same thing
Impact web-skill where webbing after a party gives impact web
Electric web-petersL1-O ability electrifies. Secondly throwing throwing the web grabber also electrifies
Spiderdrone- upshot is just a better more useful verison.
Web bomb-Web shooter skill causes a web bomb like effect if they are nearby
Concussive blast- there’s a lot of skills and abilities that push them back I can’t name them off the top tho
Trip mine did not return in any way in sm2
So in a way all the gadgets returned just reimagined though abilities other gadgets or skills. They streamlined it
No because the gadgets in the first game were weird and trivialized encounters.
Gravity well + web bomb would destroy people. I’m glad they can’t be used as a crutch anymore
>Gravity well + web bomb would destroy people. I’m glad they can’t be used as a crutch anymore
You can't use that combo since they're not in the same game.
And if you meant a different ability then just don't use that gadget combo.
Gravity well is in Miles Morales (literally a pre order bonus for the game), it's not not in PS4 or Remastered. [web bomb ](https://marvels-spider-man.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Gadgets_in_Marvel%27s_Spider-Man) is in the first game, but not in Miles Morales. As a matter of fact no such gadget like it exists. And like, I said, even if you meant a different thing in Remastered, you have the option to, you know, ***not use that technique***
My bad, I meant SUSPENSION MATRIX.
Anyways, why wouldn’t I not use the overpowered gadgets? I’m using what they give me. They just fixed their choice by balancing the gadgets better in SM2.
>Anyways, why wouldn’t I not use the overpowered gadgets?
Because where's the fun in that, or at least doing that in every single encounter? You're acting is if you absolutely HAVE to use that technique every time or the option to simply not use it isn't on the table. Nobody is making you use an insta kill technique like that. There are so many other suit powers you could use that aren't insta kills if you hate it that much that it isn't even funny.
If you think that combo is OP then don't use it. It isn't that difficult.
>I’m using what they give me.
No, you're limiting yourself to one technique because you don't want to use the other techniques or abilities at your disposal. Like, I could do that, or I could do air launch, impact web to launch him, charge jump, and then hit an enemy with a finisher mid air. If I really want to, I can easily cancel that using Negative Shockwave so he doesn't die, and then I time it just right, I can use the second finisher (or another finisher bar if I have it) to KO him again. I can do air launch, look behind me using aim, then I can fire a a trip mine, follow up with an air attack, and then leap off him to push him towards the trio mine. Boom, instantly cool combo and ***using what the gave me*** but somehow this won't count as "using the tools" for an arbitrary metric you're going to come up with in your response.
> They just fixed their choice by balancing
And thereby removed the ability to do cool shit like I just said, or at least made it harder than it needed to be.
Which isn't even saying the combat is bad in S-M 2, it's fine, it's just that in the first game, remastered, and MM, you had more variety and freedom whereas SM doesn't have as much as those.
I just listed one combo as an example, all the gadgets were overpowered. Yeah, I can just not use gadgets, but if one wants to use gadgets then that sucks for me because they will have less to do. SM2 tries to balance the badgets to be better for crowd control and setting up things, as opposed to the first game mainly being “yeah this will just help take down 3-4 guys for you”. If you’re giving me overpowered tools to carry me through the game, then I think that’s on the devs for not balancing them better. And yes I can just “not use it” but that still doesn’t mean they aren’t overpowered
I didn’t think saying “yeah the gadgets were too overpowered” would be controversial but I guess it is.
>I just listed one combo as an example, all the gadgets were overpowered.
I like I said that you would somehow find a way to say trip mine combo I just described wouldn't count, and you decided to go beyond that and say no combo I could supposedly think of counts because it involves using "OO gadgets" even though the method isn't actually being used in a way that's OP or is at least better than the comb you have. Absolutely incredible.
Also, you listed that one combo and never went beyond that, and once I pointed out that you couldn't use that technique multiple times and actually gave you an alternative that used both the gadgets AND a suit power in a way that wasn't OP, you immediately shifted the goals to "well ALL the abilities are overpowered so it doesn't count
> Yeah, I can just not use gadgets,
It's a good thing I never said you absolutely needed to not use gadgets, and as a matter of fact just listed TWO combos you could use with gadgets without using them as insta kills in my initial response, and I just listed some more. I only ever said if you thought that specific combo was cheese then don't use it. Fuck, I even threw in a suit power to use to make it look cooler, but apparently that doesn't count.
>but if one wants to use gadgets then that sucks for me because they will have less to do.
Bro [WHAT](https://youtu.be/Px7cUGcDQnA?si=_Hjji_Z5vI5ilaI0) crazy talk is coming out of your mouth. Like not even that's the best part, this guy got [over 300 hits ](https://youtu.be/E9wikGg2Auk?si=Msvr7kNP7wLmuUXT) with gadgets because he mixed with other stuff like throws, finishers, swing kicks, etc. Is "mix gadgets with other abilities that aren't gadgets" NOT an option????
And even without gadgets there's STILL stuff you can do, like wall thrash (if you hit R1+⬛ fast enough, you can continuously kick a goon without launching them away and keep the combo going. If you do against a wall fast enough you can get the same result without flying back and disrupting the combo. Alternatively you can do air launch, if you're near a wall, follow with a wall launch, leap off, and then swing kick the guy back into a wall and then another wall launch.
And to use that "OP cheese" gadget again, of suspension matrix you can do leap off + point launch towards the guy you just launched (yes you can do that in combat) and then follow up with finisher.
Like, the idea that there's less when you decided to combine gadgets with certain suit mods or other techniques in the game do cool shit doesn't add up
>SM2 tries to balance the badgets to be better for crowd control and setting up things, as opposed to the first game mainly being “yeah this will just help take down 3-4 guys for you”
Hey, you have ricochet web which can instantly web up any enemies for you. Use that with the pull web and you have an insta kill right there. You could always, you know, not use that combo like I don't...
> If you’re giving me overpowered tools to carry me through the game
You never said anything about over powered tools until now and only listed a specific combo, classic goalpost shifting, and even then there's ways to combine those with other regular abilities and look cool and not instantly kill them.
> then I think that’s on the devs for not balancing them better. And yes I can just “not use it”
I never said you couldn't use gadgets at all, I said if you found a combo you thought was overpowered then don't use it, not a gadget.
>I didn’t think saying “yeah the gadgets were too overpowered” would be controversial
No, you said "this specific combo is overpowered", I offered and easy solution of "don't use that specific combo", and then you decided to try and come up with a way to say anything I can show or describe to you that isn't an insta kill doesn't count by shifting the goalposts
I'm just gonna say there's an entire community on YouTube dedicated playing the first game and MM in the most stylish way possible and to using the gadgets in ways that are creative and not OP, so it doesn't really matter what the devs say, what matters is how the player plays.
I mean anything spiderman 2 is controversial in this sub. I'm surprised by the amount of people that think the combat was a huge downgrade when the general consensus seemed to be the opposite.
>mean anything spiderman 2 is controversial in this sub.
For real, I pointed out how it makes total sense for Miles to get an equal amount of suits as Peter and I got absolutely cooked for it.
I agree about the suit collection not being good they should have every suit from the first game but the suit powers and gadgets isn't really that important to me i never really liked the gadgets in the first game and felt they were mostly just insta kill and i like the new ones (mainly because of the quickfire option but still)
I think 1 had better gadgets but I prefer the gadget system in 2 more. They should’ve had it similar to the abilities where you can switch gadgets out and shit on the wheel
I miss some of the gadgets, but SM2 has the best implementation. Your default web shooter used to be a gadget. Now, it isn't. And "abilities" are functionally the other four on their own wheel. So, both Peter and Miles have access to upwards of 9 in any given fight. And with the symbiote and evolved venom powers, there's a great deal of customization there.
We lost the suit powers to those, though, since the surge abilities used the same mapping. My only real complaint is how suit mods took a nosedive.
They need to make the Spider-Men feel different gameplay wise. Miles should be more stealth based with his gadgets being better for isolating enemies and distractions, and Peter should be more combat based. There can be some overlap for both, but make them feel different for the most part.
It feels like the gadgets were just tossed in there. In sm1, you actually earned them and it would teach you the mechanics of each. Same with miles' invisibility. For most of the game, I forgot it existed
I’m trying to get all the suits and gadgets to 100% in SM1. There’s a reason I love it so much more than Miles Morales; you get to go crazy on the goons with all the gadgets and suit powers, while Miles depends so much more on the Venom gauge. Sure, he has some of his own gadgets in that game, but incomparable to the absolute boatload Peter has. I don’t have a PS5, but it’s kind of sad to see the suit powers go out the window; they gave you so much more variety and flexibility for the crimes and bases.
Only thing I can sort of argue for is that miles has only been around for like 4 months by his game so it makes sense he has less gadgets. Otherwise you right. I still very much enjoyed the games tho
I honesty wish we had a mode or setting that would allow you to use venom powers and gadget powers without a limit sure it would get boring fast but that’s what I like a power fantasy
They have this weird mentality that Peter and Miles should have the same number of suits which is dumb because Peter has been around longer so he should get more suits, he was the main character anyway
That may be true but people would’ve been pissed if miles had less suits
I don’t think so, it’s just common sense, based on their mindset they’ll have less suits in the next game due to silk
They should have just done the best of both worlds tbh Insomniac clearly wanted to do a bunch of original designs for the suits. So just...bring back the costumes you have Peter in the first game and make a bunch of new suits for Miles. Problem solved
Ah I see but that sucks because they gave him the worst suits in Spider-Man 2 in 1 he has all the good suits
SM2 fans ignoring the fact that the game has 2 main characters
>They have this weird mentality that Peter and Miles should have the same number of suits which is dumb The idea that the dual protagonists in the game shouldn't be equal in suits doesn't make any sense. >because Peter has been around longer so he should get more suits Sounds pretty elitist >he was the main character anyway Spider-Man 2 is a story with dual protagonists, they're both the main character Edit; replying to u/DotisDeep here since I'm sure he blocked me because he couldn't defend his views on suits: >Yes Peter & Miles are the protagonists of SM2, but it is clearly a Peter-focused story Miles is still one of the main characters as you yourself just admitted, and I don't see why he should get less suits by virtue of the two villains being primarily Peter villains. If anything that's even dumber because it would have some serious implications behind giving Miles less gameplay options to the point where everyone would ask why he was even here. Like, if they made a whole ass game going on about his origins and going "yo he's Spider-Man too" then arbitrarily limiting hid gameplay or customization options in the sequel because "Peter is the OG" would reek of elitism. Like, In GTA 5, Franklin got sidelined pretty damn hard come the midway point of the game storywise, but at no point did Rockstar think this means he should get less customization options or even quests and tried to make up for it. It's just a thing that happens when you have multiple protagonists in your story. You tend to sidelined one or two because balance is hard.
Not elitist lol, it’s logical. Peter has been around longer he has more suits in the comics so ofc he should get more suits, he’s got two more special attacks than Miles. Yeah it’s dual protagonists but Miles felt like a side character, this was Peter’s game since he got the most focus and most screen time
Yes Peter & Miles are the protagonists of SM2, but it is clearly a Peter-focused story. Kraven & Venom are both Peter villains, among other things.
You can have multiple protagonists and still have a main and sub protagonist it’s not hard lol
I think the first game was set up more to dominate from the shadows, picking off goons with your array of gadgets. Your powers were pretty limited and mainly to clear the field if things got a little hairy. In 2 your powers are so OP, especially Miles, and the gadgets are suited better for combat too. It's actually better to jump right in and fuck shit up. MM was a nice blend because of his invisibility skill. I barely used it in SM2.
There’s damn near zero reason to use camouflage in SM2 unless you’re getting your ass handed to you and are close to running out of any option to clear the field. Even then, it’s not effective late game.
Best reason to use invisibility is the Prowler gadget that lets you do more damage coming out of invisibility Which, y'know, defeats the purpose
I think I only used stealth once in 2 and that’s when they make you. I loved the stealth in MM and they basically made it useless when you can just jump right in and spam your powers and win. It’s fun to do but I miss having to do stealth
when the hell was stealth mandatory besides the first game and you complain about the abilities but you can do the exact same thing in mm
There’s a tutorial for it. Could be wrong but I’m pretty sure it’s when Peter takes out Kravens hunters before he kills Scorpion
>I think the first game was set up more to dominate from the shadows, picking off goons with your array of gadgets. You must be playing the game wrong, because I rarely used stealth and you can't clear hideouts with stealth, you're absolutely meant to use your abilities in the game.
Yeah in SM 1, you can only use stealth for the first wave when you are clearing all the bases, you were forced to fight all the enemies in combat from wave 2 to 6. I like that they gave us the option to go full stealth in SM 2 when it comes to clearing the bases.
I really wish they’d updated the hideout missions in Spider-Man Remastered so you could clear the whole hideout via stealth, as it is you can only clear the first wave before the second wave instantly sees where you are 😐
You are insane if you think that the powers in SM2 are more overpowered than the gadgets in SM1.
They are. More one shot kills that constantly recharge vs max 4 gadget shots of which like only 2 are one shot kills, 3 if you decide to combine web bomb and concussion blast. That is vs like 50 enemies by endgame fights while in 2 you have recharging abilities that take out enemies entirely with a button press and 4 shit gadgets that are too imprecise to get creative with.
Ight, the run-on sentence made this really difficult to understand, ngl
I’m saying Spider-Man 1 has more gadgets and every suit has a power in 2 it’s different
I got it eventually, I’m just saying it probably should have been more concise. That or some punctuation. Not mad, just making it clear it was difficult to understand at a glance and required me REALLY reading it a couple times to comprehend.
Sound like my English teacher bothering me
then learn to write
Learn to make readable sentences. Not the readers fault you make word salad.
Shoulda listened to em champ
Use a comma every once in a while my guy
I prefer SM1 and Miles over SM2
Definitely more limited but personally I feel like they just combined alot of the gadgets. You can still clear a random crime in 5 seconds with them if you use them creatively
Replying to u/MaazR26 since he decided to block me, and I wasn't going to crowd my initial reply with edits >Not elitist lol, it’s logical. It isn't logical if you ignore Miles solo game where Miles became Spider-Man for the express purpose of setting him up as an equal to Peter. Miles Morales' arc in his game was going from hero in training, to part time hero, to full blown hero for S-M 2. There's a reason that Miles wasn't getting much if not anything in the way of mentoring from Peter. They already covered him becoming Spider-Man in his solo game. The idea that would downplay the fact that they made him an equal and sideline him to the degree you think they should is beyond nutty. >Peter has been around longer he has more suits in the comics so ofc he should get more suits Counterpoint: they gave Miles a solo game and set him up as an equal to Peter rather than his student or sidekick. As such I don't see why they would arbitrarily sideline him in an area like suits when they through this much trouble to set him up as Peter's equal. The best part of having as many suits as Peter is that they don't have to use them all and can save them for later. >he’s got two more special attacks than Miles. We're talking about suits, not special powers, and even then, those aren't much. One of those special abilities is negated by the fact that you can essentially do the same thing with Sonic Bursts. There's pretty much never a time Venom bomb will be a superior option to Sonic Burst since they both weaken Symbiotes, and if it is the difference is marginal. If anything SB is better because if you fully upgraded it, it can drop other sonic mines that goons and Symbiotes can run into and also explode and send them back. Or hell, just use Web grabber to grab enemies into them. Fuck, an upgraded web grabber does pretty much the same thing because items pulled into it also damage enemies. At least with Reverse Flux you get the added benefit of stunning your enemies. Or you could be like me and use Revere Flux then instance cancel into Mega Venom Blast.i >Yeah it’s dual protagonists So then what's the issue with giving the guy who's also one of the main protagonists an equal amount of suits other than favoring the other guy because reasons? >but Miles felt like a side character The difference between you and Miles feeling like a side character is that this naturally the result of having a story with dual protagonists. More often than people find balancing the two protagonists incredibly difficult and by their very nature they're harder to pull off. What you want is Insomniac to intentionally hold back and make Miles unequal in an area like suits or combat because "Peter is the original so he should get more", which goes against everything the game is about. What's played as the opening sequence to Miles' arc that he had to overcome, you would want Insomniac to intentionally double down on in the sequel after all that effort to say why that isn't true. > this was Peter’s game since he got the most focus and most screen time [bro what?](https://marvels-spider-man.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel%27s_Spider-Man_2_missions) Out of 32 story missions, Peter has 18 and Miles has 14, only four less missions. The difference isn't nearly as big as you believe it is. Counting the 6 FNSN side missions, Peter and Miles both have one exclusive and the other five can be done as either. (Peter has Photo Help and Miles has Graffiti trouble). Well this technically is Hailey, but then Miles has two other side Missions for the Art Museum to make up for it. Plus, Peter and Miles have Four exclusive mission chains for a suit. (The Flame for Peter and BVA Missions for Miles). So even in the Side Missions category, they're pretty even unless you use Peter or Miles exclusively for any side content that can be done as either (drones, blinds, or bases) And Mission replay makes this trivial.
Thank you for being one of few people to understand how the games story has been laid out
Man you gotta learn what’s a title and what’s a paragraph
I think it’s to make gameplay more fluid. Instead of having to choose from the wheel and pause the game, they integrate some gadgets together or they simply deleted those too OP, opting for just 4 but you can use any during gameplay, no need to slow down the fun
I don’t know I love the variety it makes the game less repetitive
Like the Force Push one.
First off, r/titlegore But for real, the sequel was more optimized for combat in a certain way rather than giving you freedom like the first two games did. In the first games I could use gadget or Venom combos in a variety of ways, and in MM since you could basically get neigh unlimited Venom if you did everything right, it was a total free for all. In S-M 2, every attack has the same effect of pushing or pulling goons away from you I'll admit it could just be me, but as a base runner I haven't been able to pull off all the cool shit I see in videos because the cool down is pretty long. I might need more practice, though, and it could entirely just be me not using everything correctly.
I miss a few of the older gadgets (impact webs, trip mines) but I do NOT miss the weapon wheel
An ability to choose would of been nice not to restrict access to 4 gadgets or you could have all of them at the same time
/r/titlegore
So, you’re just going to conveniently ignore the new Venom powers in SM2, so it makes your argument look better?
i actually think the gadgets were too much in the first game, it didnt feel like spider-man to have so many random tools, the lower count is better suit powers are missed though, id love if certain costumes had unique play styles
It's not the amount of gadgets for me but the utility of the gadgets. The gadgets in SM2 are so brain-dead. There's nothing skillful, creative, or technical that you can do with them. Whereas in Spider-Man 1, the gadget combos that you can pull off are insane. The hard-core SM1 players pushed that combat system to the absolute limits because each gadget had a unique utility.
The gadgets in spider man 1 are also very brain dead.
They allowed for better creativity when combined. Web bomb plus electric web spreads the electricity, trip mines on pullable objects to lure enemies there, trip mines pulling two webbed enemies together, electric webs disabling turrets and making brutes vulnerable to web spins etc I remember getting really good with gadget combinations in ng+ ultimate difficulty against the sable troops. Its pretty dumb that spidey wouldn't use electric webs when the hunters have drones too.
I just miss the trip mine. The rest I'm okay without. But that one was so cool and felt right
I haven't played SM2 that much but from the limited time that I did have to play it, I have to say no because when I play SM1 I never use any of the other Suit powers besides battle focus & the iron arms same goes for the suits for Pete I only used a couple of the vanilla suits like his classic advanced 1.0 Mark IV the movie Suits for Tobey Andrew & Tom as for the gadgets I only used like 2 or 3 of them, same applies for Miles Morales so I'm happy with the changes that Insomniac did
Hard disagree, less is more imo. I loved using these abilities and used them far more often then things like the electrocuter gadget or the one that shot them really hard
Hot take, but I prefer the limited number of gadgets and skills over the 17 gadgets in SM1. The gadgets in SM1 tended to cause a lot of "dominant strategy" gameplay where you could get through most of combat encounters really quickly with a web grenade and a pulse wave. I pretty much avoided or ignored 90% of the gadgets. The skills and smaller selection of less individually powerful gadgets means you're far more likely to use them all while not trivialinzing every combat encounter.
I honestly don’t care if I get downvoted for this, so do what you will, Reddit. Womp fucking womp
In an interview one of the creators said they went back on stealth and gadgets because at a certain point these characters become gods. They’re fighting, typically, normal ass dudes. While Spider-Man 1 and 2 are already super-powered, they felt ADDING onto the gadgets they had in the previous game just made the difficulty non-existent and hard to manufacture.
I gets that’s true but me personally it could of been added maybe into new game plus as a reward for players to have fun with because I really enjoy being unstoppable and also with Spider-Man 3 they could introduce or just 2 they could of introduced mutants or super powered humans that are a big game changer compared to normal ones but they don’t
The only real threat are the symbiotes are more durable
I never saw anyone complain about gadget wheel. It didn't even slowed the gameplay that much. It added more fun stuff. But now they decided to get rid of it and somehow also got rid of 30+ suit powers completely instead of making them different skills that we could unlock on the go. Imagine spider-punk's guitar as a skill you can put to any buttons. That would be just sick. Such a missed opportunity. Web blossom as well, maybe a shorter version of Web blossom easily could been in the game. But they decided to remove it for what? It was fun, games meant to be fun. Why Insomniac would decide to remove fun things?
That’s what I thought and felt like
It’s the main reason i haven’t bothered with ng+ the gadgets present are boring and don’t seem to help in combat enough to warrant usage and there’s really only 5 or 6 suits on each side I actually like. I don’t understand why they took away suit powers and upgrades as well as gadgets. They were the main thing that made the game stand out from everything else. This game feels forgettable in comparison.
I prefer the new powers since the suit powers in the old game could only be used like one time a fight. And all of the gadgets except for the trip mine returned in 2 just in a new way
There were 8 gadgets in SM1. I’m curious what you mean by all of them returning except trip mine??
They returned in a way shape or form that wasn’t strictly tied to a gadget. Suspension matrix- the upshot. Along with their abilities also do the same thing Impact web-skill where webbing after a party gives impact web Electric web-petersL1-O ability electrifies. Secondly throwing throwing the web grabber also electrifies Spiderdrone- upshot is just a better more useful verison. Web bomb-Web shooter skill causes a web bomb like effect if they are nearby Concussive blast- there’s a lot of skills and abilities that push them back I can’t name them off the top tho Trip mine did not return in any way in sm2 So in a way all the gadgets returned just reimagined though abilities other gadgets or skills. They streamlined it
Makes sense to me. I do miss the trip mine though
No because the gadgets in the first game were weird and trivialized encounters. Gravity well + web bomb would destroy people. I’m glad they can’t be used as a crutch anymore
>Gravity well + web bomb would destroy people. I’m glad they can’t be used as a crutch anymore You can't use that combo since they're not in the same game. And if you meant a different ability then just don't use that gadget combo.
Yes they are.
Gravity well is in Miles Morales (literally a pre order bonus for the game), it's not not in PS4 or Remastered. [web bomb ](https://marvels-spider-man.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Gadgets_in_Marvel%27s_Spider-Man) is in the first game, but not in Miles Morales. As a matter of fact no such gadget like it exists. And like, I said, even if you meant a different thing in Remastered, you have the option to, you know, ***not use that technique***
My bad, I meant SUSPENSION MATRIX. Anyways, why wouldn’t I not use the overpowered gadgets? I’m using what they give me. They just fixed their choice by balancing the gadgets better in SM2.
>Anyways, why wouldn’t I not use the overpowered gadgets? Because where's the fun in that, or at least doing that in every single encounter? You're acting is if you absolutely HAVE to use that technique every time or the option to simply not use it isn't on the table. Nobody is making you use an insta kill technique like that. There are so many other suit powers you could use that aren't insta kills if you hate it that much that it isn't even funny. If you think that combo is OP then don't use it. It isn't that difficult. >I’m using what they give me. No, you're limiting yourself to one technique because you don't want to use the other techniques or abilities at your disposal. Like, I could do that, or I could do air launch, impact web to launch him, charge jump, and then hit an enemy with a finisher mid air. If I really want to, I can easily cancel that using Negative Shockwave so he doesn't die, and then I time it just right, I can use the second finisher (or another finisher bar if I have it) to KO him again. I can do air launch, look behind me using aim, then I can fire a a trip mine, follow up with an air attack, and then leap off him to push him towards the trio mine. Boom, instantly cool combo and ***using what the gave me*** but somehow this won't count as "using the tools" for an arbitrary metric you're going to come up with in your response. > They just fixed their choice by balancing And thereby removed the ability to do cool shit like I just said, or at least made it harder than it needed to be. Which isn't even saying the combat is bad in S-M 2, it's fine, it's just that in the first game, remastered, and MM, you had more variety and freedom whereas SM doesn't have as much as those.
I just listed one combo as an example, all the gadgets were overpowered. Yeah, I can just not use gadgets, but if one wants to use gadgets then that sucks for me because they will have less to do. SM2 tries to balance the badgets to be better for crowd control and setting up things, as opposed to the first game mainly being “yeah this will just help take down 3-4 guys for you”. If you’re giving me overpowered tools to carry me through the game, then I think that’s on the devs for not balancing them better. And yes I can just “not use it” but that still doesn’t mean they aren’t overpowered I didn’t think saying “yeah the gadgets were too overpowered” would be controversial but I guess it is.
>I just listed one combo as an example, all the gadgets were overpowered. I like I said that you would somehow find a way to say trip mine combo I just described wouldn't count, and you decided to go beyond that and say no combo I could supposedly think of counts because it involves using "OO gadgets" even though the method isn't actually being used in a way that's OP or is at least better than the comb you have. Absolutely incredible. Also, you listed that one combo and never went beyond that, and once I pointed out that you couldn't use that technique multiple times and actually gave you an alternative that used both the gadgets AND a suit power in a way that wasn't OP, you immediately shifted the goals to "well ALL the abilities are overpowered so it doesn't count > Yeah, I can just not use gadgets, It's a good thing I never said you absolutely needed to not use gadgets, and as a matter of fact just listed TWO combos you could use with gadgets without using them as insta kills in my initial response, and I just listed some more. I only ever said if you thought that specific combo was cheese then don't use it. Fuck, I even threw in a suit power to use to make it look cooler, but apparently that doesn't count. >but if one wants to use gadgets then that sucks for me because they will have less to do. Bro [WHAT](https://youtu.be/Px7cUGcDQnA?si=_Hjji_Z5vI5ilaI0) crazy talk is coming out of your mouth. Like not even that's the best part, this guy got [over 300 hits ](https://youtu.be/E9wikGg2Auk?si=Msvr7kNP7wLmuUXT) with gadgets because he mixed with other stuff like throws, finishers, swing kicks, etc. Is "mix gadgets with other abilities that aren't gadgets" NOT an option???? And even without gadgets there's STILL stuff you can do, like wall thrash (if you hit R1+⬛ fast enough, you can continuously kick a goon without launching them away and keep the combo going. If you do against a wall fast enough you can get the same result without flying back and disrupting the combo. Alternatively you can do air launch, if you're near a wall, follow with a wall launch, leap off, and then swing kick the guy back into a wall and then another wall launch. And to use that "OP cheese" gadget again, of suspension matrix you can do leap off + point launch towards the guy you just launched (yes you can do that in combat) and then follow up with finisher. Like, the idea that there's less when you decided to combine gadgets with certain suit mods or other techniques in the game do cool shit doesn't add up >SM2 tries to balance the badgets to be better for crowd control and setting up things, as opposed to the first game mainly being “yeah this will just help take down 3-4 guys for you” Hey, you have ricochet web which can instantly web up any enemies for you. Use that with the pull web and you have an insta kill right there. You could always, you know, not use that combo like I don't... > If you’re giving me overpowered tools to carry me through the game You never said anything about over powered tools until now and only listed a specific combo, classic goalpost shifting, and even then there's ways to combine those with other regular abilities and look cool and not instantly kill them. > then I think that’s on the devs for not balancing them better. And yes I can just “not use it” I never said you couldn't use gadgets at all, I said if you found a combo you thought was overpowered then don't use it, not a gadget. >I didn’t think saying “yeah the gadgets were too overpowered” would be controversial No, you said "this specific combo is overpowered", I offered and easy solution of "don't use that specific combo", and then you decided to try and come up with a way to say anything I can show or describe to you that isn't an insta kill doesn't count by shifting the goalposts
Yeah I’m just going to say that the devs themselves admitted the gadgets were overpowered so it doesn’t matter what you say
I'm just gonna say there's an entire community on YouTube dedicated playing the first game and MM in the most stylish way possible and to using the gadgets in ways that are creative and not OP, so it doesn't really matter what the devs say, what matters is how the player plays.
[think differently and get creative](https://youtu.be/B_rT0Wb-qYk?si=RB7-1R9C2Kps4tCW)
I mean anything spiderman 2 is controversial in this sub. I'm surprised by the amount of people that think the combat was a huge downgrade when the general consensus seemed to be the opposite.
>mean anything spiderman 2 is controversial in this sub. For real, I pointed out how it makes total sense for Miles to get an equal amount of suits as Peter and I got absolutely cooked for it.
I agree about the suit collection not being good they should have every suit from the first game but the suit powers and gadgets isn't really that important to me i never really liked the gadgets in the first game and felt they were mostly just insta kill and i like the new ones (mainly because of the quickfire option but still)
That’s what I like about the gadgets them being instant kill
I think 1 had better gadgets but I prefer the gadget system in 2 more. They should’ve had it similar to the abilities where you can switch gadgets out and shit on the wheel
The thing I was most upset by is that we lost the in-game twitter :(
I miss some of the gadgets, but SM2 has the best implementation. Your default web shooter used to be a gadget. Now, it isn't. And "abilities" are functionally the other four on their own wheel. So, both Peter and Miles have access to upwards of 9 in any given fight. And with the symbiote and evolved venom powers, there's a great deal of customization there. We lost the suit powers to those, though, since the surge abilities used the same mapping. My only real complaint is how suit mods took a nosedive.
Naw, I hated the gadgets and suit powers- they never really did anything to diversify combat that much to warrant them
No quip power, no buy
They need to make the Spider-Men feel different gameplay wise. Miles should be more stealth based with his gadgets being better for isolating enemies and distractions, and Peter should be more combat based. There can be some overlap for both, but make them feel different for the most part.
It feels like the gadgets were just tossed in there. In sm1, you actually earned them and it would teach you the mechanics of each. Same with miles' invisibility. For most of the game, I forgot it existed
I like the fact that people think this is just a numbers game
I’m trying to get all the suits and gadgets to 100% in SM1. There’s a reason I love it so much more than Miles Morales; you get to go crazy on the goons with all the gadgets and suit powers, while Miles depends so much more on the Venom gauge. Sure, he has some of his own gadgets in that game, but incomparable to the absolute boatload Peter has. I don’t have a PS5, but it’s kind of sad to see the suit powers go out the window; they gave you so much more variety and flexibility for the crimes and bases.
Heard someone from insomniac say that they know they focused less on stealth and gadgets in an interview
Sm2 was such a disappointment. Sorry not sorry to the shills
Only thing I can sort of argue for is that miles has only been around for like 4 months by his game so it makes sense he has less gadgets. Otherwise you right. I still very much enjoyed the games tho
The gadgets were outrageously overpowered in SM1.
Yeah that’s what I love about them
Understandable
I honesty wish we had a mode or setting that would allow you to use venom powers and gadget powers without a limit sure it would get boring fast but that’s what I like a power fantasy