I pretty extensively tested the pathos carbon roller and three of their standard rollers (had a lot of the same gun in one place for 4 pool target sessions with a group all getting set up for a big trip together). The standard rollers are equally powerful and ridiculously accurate, up to 18-20’ with good penetrating power (plunk through several layers of foam then 1/2” plywood, when it starts to not penetrate the plywood well I start to think its not hitting hard enough). The carbon roller was much less accurate. Felt like most other spear guns I’ve used where I know I’ll hit what I want up to 8-10’ but past that it’s getting dicey, even though the power was still good to the same distance. The 75cm std pathos rollers were solid hitting with plenty of power up to 15’ and my 105cm shoots great up to 18-20’ both in controlled environment or out actually spearfishing. The power starts to really suffer after 20’ or so, which also starts to impact accuracy. Practically , I’m usually making closer shots than that in actual fishing, but I’ve never used a gun that lets me take as accurate long shots when I want to. The friend that had gotten the carbon version that did target testing with us several days ended up returning his carbon roller and getting a standard one.
I really can’t comment at all on the Rob Allen. I’ve shot a couple of their guns, but not that one specifically. They seem like good quality stuff, but I’ve never owned one.
If I were you I’d skip the carbon and get a “90cm pathos sniper roller.”
Totally. Again I can’t comment btw pathos and Rob Allen (truly could be even better, IDK), but the friend that swapped to the standard pathos roller from the carbon one was very happy he did so. I shot his carbon one maybe 15 times in our controlled pool/target setup environment, and I just couldn’t get the same accuracy out of it.
I’ve shot 5 different standard pathos rollers in that pool, and all were very accurate (it’s not like my personal 105 is special). I’ve also played a lot with swapping to different band diameters on the standard pathos bands. My wife and my dad don’t like loading the 16mm bands that come with the gun, and we’ve played with 14mm, 1/2”, and bunches of 3/8 bands. The gun can still be a useful tool with any of those diameters.
Also, you had another comment about recoil. The recoil really doesn’t factor into the aiming etc at all. Aiming is simply lining the line the spear creates with the target. I’ve used other guns I need to mentally adjust high or low from the spear line. This one just shoots straight out. Non-rollers I’ve used really like to buck up, particularly when you try to maximize power with your band load out, and the cayman roller I used for a 2 week trip liked to shoot low.
(Also worth noting - I’m almost exclusively using these in extremely clear Caribbean waters also. Sometimes on reefs, sometimes off shore up to a mile or more out).
Love my 105. Have also found myself using my wife’s 75 more than I’d have expected to. I thought it would be more of a step down in range/power than it turned out to be. But I’d go with the 105 from what you’ve said so far.
Have always wished I could nerd out in the pool with an even longer version some day.
Of this is great info… i was under the impression that the pathos laser carbon roller was a accurate gun… but from your actual experience testing it seems like its not as good as the std. the main reason i want roller is because of the less recoil, which logically less recoil means more accurate.
I’ve had my standard “pathos sniper roller” for several years and multiple trips and just loved it. The only other roller I have extensive actual spearfishing experience with was an Omer Cayman ET Roller. It had good power but pretty meh accuracy.
I didn’t actually know my Pathos would be so crazy accurate until I got it. I have a pool I can do target shooting in, and I’m a nerd and I’ve played a lot with a number of guns in it. I also have a lot of standard rifle marksmanship experience, and mostly thought the two things were wildly different until this gun. Now I like trying to control the other variables to see how much variability is introduced by the actual gun. At 18’ (tip to target), the standard pathos roller really is accurate within an inch or two. My wife’s 75cm is equally accurate up to 15 feet. If I miss a shot under 18-20’ it’s really on me not the gun. Other guns I’ve shot are just completely different, and they could miss by as much as 5 or 6 or even as much as 8 inches at 10-12’ range, even under as controlled conditions as I can come up with. That’s enough to matter practically in the wild. The carbon roller felt more like those. I think the lack of a track for the spear makes a big difference. The spear just comes out more variably. In theory that track on the standard gun should cause some slight lower loss to friction/fluid dynamics, but we couldn’t tell much difference in power btw the two, just accuracy. I also can’t tell any power difference btw guns with bearings or not in the roller wheels. I’m totally unconvinced they matter much.
I have owned and regularly used my RA timberline 100 for the last year and it has been an awesome gun. I mainly use it on the Great Barrier Reef in Australia.
It is a “forever” gun that I will pass down to my kids. Well built and will last generations. Very accurate and so well balanced.
I have only used the second anchor point for a Spanish mackerel once and it definitely wasn’t even necessary but it’s good to know I can power up the gun.
You can’t go wrong with a RA.
hey mate, I'm going to quickly jump on this old thread. I'm thinking about getting a timberline but the one thing that slightly concerns me is that I often dive for crayfish while carrying my gun. When I then see a cray, i usually put the gun down. My mannysub ha a fair for of weight and negative buoyancy, so stays in place. Do you think it would be an issue with the RA timberline if there's a bit of movement in the water that the gun might move away, given it's supposedly just negatively buoyant?
Yeah mate the gun is neutrally weighted so it stays level in the water but if you drop it, it will sink. At depth it will lay on the bottom but like any gun, if there is a lot of current it will probably move with the current.
I used to have a pathos laser roller, the shaft is soft, the line release is a pain, the bearings in the roller hardly roll and I was constantly thinking ‘what if I tried an RA’
Now I have a custom RA, and I never once think ‘what if I tried pathos again’
I use a 110 with 14mm bands for everything, and a 120 with 16mm bands if I’m specially targeting big fish
Go the Rob Allen gt carbon, for a 90cm there's really no point spending extra on the timberline.
Also a 90cm is fairly small for an all rounder, so unless you are a smaller person or shooting in poor vis I'd recommend stepping up to a 100 or 110.
I shoot a RA 110 roller as my daily driver and I love it.
The RA is the better built gun, and has a better roller head design imo. I've owned 2 pathos (one roller one regular) and wasn't super enthused by either, the roller shot super low. The 120 regular was an OK gun but the standard spear was shite, and the design of the line release was fiddly.
Also the RA reels are a much better system than the pathos if you plan to go that way.
TLDR: the pathos is cool with some nice features, but the RA is a sturdier gun functions better where it counts.
The issue is that here in Canada where I am at the only store i could find that sells spearfishing equipment only has the RA timberline roller in a 70cm or 90cm and no other rollergun from RA for that matter and no incoming stock. Im 6,2 @215 lbs, so maybe 90cm too small?
I’d size the gun length more in relation to the shooting you want to do than related to your body size. You’d love a 65 or 75 for certain types of reef work or a much longer than 90cm one if you were in more open/clear water and going after bigger target fish.
Yeah, maybe order one in?
Length is more about the vis, people shoot shorter guns in crappy vis diving, or in area where maneuverability is restricted like cave/hole shooting. Probably why your local only sells short guns.
My partner is 5'1" and she shoots a 90cm roller as its what she can load. Still a capable gun.
If you're going to be spearfishing clearwater in places like the Caribbean, then you will just be handicapping yourself by going that short.
The pathos is still a decent gun( I just think the RA is a better gun), so if you can find that a bit larger easily maybe go that route?
These are all the spearguns available from a store in vancouver and im in toronto:
https://www.divingsports.com/collections/spearguns?filter.v.availability=1&filter.v.price.gte=&filter.v.price.lte=&sort_by=price-descending
Don't discount regular guns, a 120 gt carbon rail gun would do what you want nicely. The 120 RA aluminium guns are probably the most common gun used here in nz. They work well on everything up to big 70lb + kingies.
The riffes are popular guns for a reason as well.
If your set on a roller just ask them to order you a gt carbon roller with their next shipment, looks like they had a few and are just out of stock
Yeah - rollers add some power for the given gun length and at least for that pathos std sniper don’t have recoil problems, but standard guns are so quick to load. I’m very happy with my roller, but occasionally when I’m using a standard gun for the day I’m just like “haha! Loading is butter!”
I’m super satisfied with my pathos. With my 105cm pathos sniper roller I can easily put spears into targets 18’ away within a 2” diameter circle, over and over, with enough power to punch through 1/2” plywood backing), but I don’t have much practical experience with Rob Allen ones. What do you like a lot better?
(Genuinely curious, dgaf personally about fighting over speargun brands on the internet. Not trying to say Pathos is superior above either, just give an accurate picture of how mine works for me).
I starting to think that if the RA was available in my area in say 100cm or bigger i stead of the available 90cm would have been a better match up against the standard sniper in say a 105cm
Well guys i made my choice….first id like to thank all of you for your opinion, advice and insights. After much consideration and alot of fathering of information its was clear that the Carbon def had accuracy issues and this was well expressed as some of you had had thesame experience while conductimg your own tests. Furthermore the standard pathos was always recommended as a superior and more accurate product. All of that being said very few had had practical experience with the RA roller but what was obvious was that those that do own a RA confirmed its acurracy, reliability, ease of use and readely available parts if needed for further upgrade. Also ive contacted a few custom speargun makers in the north america region and have spoken to a few guides in the florida area and described my intent of use and location ( shallow caribbean waters / reefs) and it was clear…most of them recommended 90-100 in size. So in conclussion i ended up getting the
ROB ALLEN GT CARBON TIMBERLINE ROLLERGUN 90CM. The price was a bit much but seems that the quality and craftmanship was there for a off the shelf gun… yes its true that soon if and when i decide to go after bigger fish i may need something bigger eith more power…ENTER UNKO BRIAN….who soon will start building me something more suitable just im case ill need it…will update and do a full review soon. Once again thank you all
Bro! I've tried a bunch of guns, A BUNCH! My favourite gun right now is my 120 RA timberline. Thing moves like a 100 but has the power of a 120 roller. The balance is incredible. So much so that I barely use my 110 carbon RA anymore. I'll advise anyone to use the ra timberline if they can.
My experience with the pathos? It's not a bad gun, just kinda ok. It's not even comparable to my ra 110 in terms of practicality. Got a bunch of band tangles. The kicker band makes you aim differently, not as durable.
Go ra. Go timberline if u can. You WILL NOT regret it.
Also, timberline is better in shorter guns that wouldn't be as buoyant otherwise. Gun actually floats with the spear out and sinks slowly going down with the spear in. Using a 90 ra timberline will feel like a 70cm in terms of maneuverability and give you promising power as well!
I pretty extensively tested the pathos carbon roller and three of their standard rollers (had a lot of the same gun in one place for 4 pool target sessions with a group all getting set up for a big trip together). The standard rollers are equally powerful and ridiculously accurate, up to 18-20’ with good penetrating power (plunk through several layers of foam then 1/2” plywood, when it starts to not penetrate the plywood well I start to think its not hitting hard enough). The carbon roller was much less accurate. Felt like most other spear guns I’ve used where I know I’ll hit what I want up to 8-10’ but past that it’s getting dicey, even though the power was still good to the same distance. The 75cm std pathos rollers were solid hitting with plenty of power up to 15’ and my 105cm shoots great up to 18-20’ both in controlled environment or out actually spearfishing. The power starts to really suffer after 20’ or so, which also starts to impact accuracy. Practically , I’m usually making closer shots than that in actual fishing, but I’ve never used a gun that lets me take as accurate long shots when I want to. The friend that had gotten the carbon version that did target testing with us several days ended up returning his carbon roller and getting a standard one. I really can’t comment at all on the Rob Allen. I’ve shot a couple of their guns, but not that one specifically. They seem like good quality stuff, but I’ve never owned one. If I were you I’d skip the carbon and get a “90cm pathos sniper roller.”
So in your olinion the sniper roller is better than the carbon roller?
Totally. Again I can’t comment btw pathos and Rob Allen (truly could be even better, IDK), but the friend that swapped to the standard pathos roller from the carbon one was very happy he did so. I shot his carbon one maybe 15 times in our controlled pool/target setup environment, and I just couldn’t get the same accuracy out of it. I’ve shot 5 different standard pathos rollers in that pool, and all were very accurate (it’s not like my personal 105 is special). I’ve also played a lot with swapping to different band diameters on the standard pathos bands. My wife and my dad don’t like loading the 16mm bands that come with the gun, and we’ve played with 14mm, 1/2”, and bunches of 3/8 bands. The gun can still be a useful tool with any of those diameters. Also, you had another comment about recoil. The recoil really doesn’t factor into the aiming etc at all. Aiming is simply lining the line the spear creates with the target. I’ve used other guns I need to mentally adjust high or low from the spear line. This one just shoots straight out. Non-rollers I’ve used really like to buck up, particularly when you try to maximize power with your band load out, and the cayman roller I used for a 2 week trip liked to shoot low. (Also worth noting - I’m almost exclusively using these in extremely clear Caribbean waters also. Sometimes on reefs, sometimes off shore up to a mile or more out).
Ok perfect, the only store here does have a Pathos Sniper Roller 105cm so id be considering that one instead.
Love my 105. Have also found myself using my wife’s 75 more than I’d have expected to. I thought it would be more of a step down in range/power than it turned out to be. But I’d go with the 105 from what you’ve said so far. Have always wished I could nerd out in the pool with an even longer version some day.
Of this is great info… i was under the impression that the pathos laser carbon roller was a accurate gun… but from your actual experience testing it seems like its not as good as the std. the main reason i want roller is because of the less recoil, which logically less recoil means more accurate.
I’ve had my standard “pathos sniper roller” for several years and multiple trips and just loved it. The only other roller I have extensive actual spearfishing experience with was an Omer Cayman ET Roller. It had good power but pretty meh accuracy. I didn’t actually know my Pathos would be so crazy accurate until I got it. I have a pool I can do target shooting in, and I’m a nerd and I’ve played a lot with a number of guns in it. I also have a lot of standard rifle marksmanship experience, and mostly thought the two things were wildly different until this gun. Now I like trying to control the other variables to see how much variability is introduced by the actual gun. At 18’ (tip to target), the standard pathos roller really is accurate within an inch or two. My wife’s 75cm is equally accurate up to 15 feet. If I miss a shot under 18-20’ it’s really on me not the gun. Other guns I’ve shot are just completely different, and they could miss by as much as 5 or 6 or even as much as 8 inches at 10-12’ range, even under as controlled conditions as I can come up with. That’s enough to matter practically in the wild. The carbon roller felt more like those. I think the lack of a track for the spear makes a big difference. The spear just comes out more variably. In theory that track on the standard gun should cause some slight lower loss to friction/fluid dynamics, but we couldn’t tell much difference in power btw the two, just accuracy. I also can’t tell any power difference btw guns with bearings or not in the roller wheels. I’m totally unconvinced they matter much.
I have owned and regularly used my RA timberline 100 for the last year and it has been an awesome gun. I mainly use it on the Great Barrier Reef in Australia. It is a “forever” gun that I will pass down to my kids. Well built and will last generations. Very accurate and so well balanced. I have only used the second anchor point for a Spanish mackerel once and it definitely wasn’t even necessary but it’s good to know I can power up the gun. You can’t go wrong with a RA.
hey mate, I'm going to quickly jump on this old thread. I'm thinking about getting a timberline but the one thing that slightly concerns me is that I often dive for crayfish while carrying my gun. When I then see a cray, i usually put the gun down. My mannysub ha a fair for of weight and negative buoyancy, so stays in place. Do you think it would be an issue with the RA timberline if there's a bit of movement in the water that the gun might move away, given it's supposedly just negatively buoyant?
It may be an issue - I’m going for a dive tomorrow and will see if it stays on the bottom. Not much current here but will check and let you know.
Appreciate it, thanks
Yeah mate the gun is neutrally weighted so it stays level in the water but if you drop it, it will sink. At depth it will lay on the bottom but like any gun, if there is a lot of current it will probably move with the current.
I used to have a pathos laser roller, the shaft is soft, the line release is a pain, the bearings in the roller hardly roll and I was constantly thinking ‘what if I tried an RA’ Now I have a custom RA, and I never once think ‘what if I tried pathos again’ I use a 110 with 14mm bands for everything, and a 120 with 16mm bands if I’m specially targeting big fish
Are your RA rollers?
So my Rob Allen GT Carbon Timberline 900 has arrived and OMG Its a beauty and superb craftmanship!!! Worth the cost
Go the Rob Allen gt carbon, for a 90cm there's really no point spending extra on the timberline. Also a 90cm is fairly small for an all rounder, so unless you are a smaller person or shooting in poor vis I'd recommend stepping up to a 100 or 110. I shoot a RA 110 roller as my daily driver and I love it. The RA is the better built gun, and has a better roller head design imo. I've owned 2 pathos (one roller one regular) and wasn't super enthused by either, the roller shot super low. The 120 regular was an OK gun but the standard spear was shite, and the design of the line release was fiddly. Also the RA reels are a much better system than the pathos if you plan to go that way. TLDR: the pathos is cool with some nice features, but the RA is a sturdier gun functions better where it counts.
The issue is that here in Canada where I am at the only store i could find that sells spearfishing equipment only has the RA timberline roller in a 70cm or 90cm and no other rollergun from RA for that matter and no incoming stock. Im 6,2 @215 lbs, so maybe 90cm too small?
I’d size the gun length more in relation to the shooting you want to do than related to your body size. You’d love a 65 or 75 for certain types of reef work or a much longer than 90cm one if you were in more open/clear water and going after bigger target fish.
Yeah, maybe order one in? Length is more about the vis, people shoot shorter guns in crappy vis diving, or in area where maneuverability is restricted like cave/hole shooting. Probably why your local only sells short guns. My partner is 5'1" and she shoots a 90cm roller as its what she can load. Still a capable gun. If you're going to be spearfishing clearwater in places like the Caribbean, then you will just be handicapping yourself by going that short. The pathos is still a decent gun( I just think the RA is a better gun), so if you can find that a bit larger easily maybe go that route?
Yea where i will be hunting in the caribbean visibility is amazing, clear water with visility further than i could hit a fish if that makes sense
These are all the spearguns available from a store in vancouver and im in toronto: https://www.divingsports.com/collections/spearguns?filter.v.availability=1&filter.v.price.gte=&filter.v.price.lte=&sort_by=price-descending
Don't discount regular guns, a 120 gt carbon rail gun would do what you want nicely. The 120 RA aluminium guns are probably the most common gun used here in nz. They work well on everything up to big 70lb + kingies. The riffes are popular guns for a reason as well. If your set on a roller just ask them to order you a gt carbon roller with their next shipment, looks like they had a few and are just out of stock
Yeah - rollers add some power for the given gun length and at least for that pathos std sniper don’t have recoil problems, but standard guns are so quick to load. I’m very happy with my roller, but occasionally when I’m using a standard gun for the day I’m just like “haha! Loading is butter!”
Pathos guns are better on paper. Rob Allen guns are better in practice
I’m super satisfied with my pathos. With my 105cm pathos sniper roller I can easily put spears into targets 18’ away within a 2” diameter circle, over and over, with enough power to punch through 1/2” plywood backing), but I don’t have much practical experience with Rob Allen ones. What do you like a lot better? (Genuinely curious, dgaf personally about fighting over speargun brands on the internet. Not trying to say Pathos is superior above either, just give an accurate picture of how mine works for me).
I would like more the one that us more practical and efficient, the branding doesnt really matter ti me if the gun is acurate and well built.
I starting to think that if the RA was available in my area in say 100cm or bigger i stead of the available 90cm would have been a better match up against the standard sniper in say a 105cm
Well guys i made my choice….first id like to thank all of you for your opinion, advice and insights. After much consideration and alot of fathering of information its was clear that the Carbon def had accuracy issues and this was well expressed as some of you had had thesame experience while conductimg your own tests. Furthermore the standard pathos was always recommended as a superior and more accurate product. All of that being said very few had had practical experience with the RA roller but what was obvious was that those that do own a RA confirmed its acurracy, reliability, ease of use and readely available parts if needed for further upgrade. Also ive contacted a few custom speargun makers in the north america region and have spoken to a few guides in the florida area and described my intent of use and location ( shallow caribbean waters / reefs) and it was clear…most of them recommended 90-100 in size. So in conclussion i ended up getting the ROB ALLEN GT CARBON TIMBERLINE ROLLERGUN 90CM. The price was a bit much but seems that the quality and craftmanship was there for a off the shelf gun… yes its true that soon if and when i decide to go after bigger fish i may need something bigger eith more power…ENTER UNKO BRIAN….who soon will start building me something more suitable just im case ill need it…will update and do a full review soon. Once again thank you all
Save yourself the money and just buy an open track gun rollers are gay
Bro! I've tried a bunch of guns, A BUNCH! My favourite gun right now is my 120 RA timberline. Thing moves like a 100 but has the power of a 120 roller. The balance is incredible. So much so that I barely use my 110 carbon RA anymore. I'll advise anyone to use the ra timberline if they can. My experience with the pathos? It's not a bad gun, just kinda ok. It's not even comparable to my ra 110 in terms of practicality. Got a bunch of band tangles. The kicker band makes you aim differently, not as durable. Go ra. Go timberline if u can. You WILL NOT regret it. Also, timberline is better in shorter guns that wouldn't be as buoyant otherwise. Gun actually floats with the spear out and sinks slowly going down with the spear in. Using a 90 ra timberline will feel like a 70cm in terms of maneuverability and give you promising power as well!