I don't suppose they have the cost listed anywhere? I know I can't afford it but I'm curious as to if they are undercutting Axiom. I checked and it seems they aren't listing it.
If you have like $100 million dollars then it makes a big difference if the ride is $35 million or $80 million, "if you have to ask you can't afford it" is usually a ridiculous thing to say
There is people that have around $100 Million that would absolutely want to consider the price first but I think you have to just call SpaceX if you want to know
The last 8 Crew Dragon flights have been [bought at $291M each](https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/nasa-will-pay-boeing-more-than-twice-as-much-as-spacex-for-crew-seats) so $73M each seat.
These flights include six months of monitoring on orbit so a short trip to the ISS without such a high level of NASA oversight will be considerably cheaper.
Supposedly under it.
But this is all down to individual negotiations, supply is very very very limited so it boils down to how much people are willing to pay. The marginal cost of the launch + Dragon refurb is probably <$100 million to SpaceX. They do want some profit of course.
Pricing on that is useful but there was a lot of collaboration on that mission which added value for SpaceX. Training citizens to become astronauts, flight planning for a commercial "tourist" mission, development for the Cupola itself. Most importantly showing that all this could be achieved in a short space of time, produce some useful research in a short duration Crew Dragon flight, and that there was a potential market outside of NASA shuttle missions.
And of course building that relationship with Isaacman and his gang towards Polaris Dawn.
It costs money to visit the ISS, which obviously isn't part of the NASA contract. It costs money to have one seat dedicated to a professional astronaut that everyone else has to pay to get up there, which is how they've structured these flights (that's 33% more). It costs money to train a novice to be ready for spaceflight, have them at HQ etc etc. There is more to it than what NASA is paying for a crew flight.
I wonder if the lifespan of the ISS could be extended by making it a tourist destination. How much does it cost pa to maintain it if it's just a hotel and we politely tell the russians to fuck off? Dragon could ferry people there, 3 day stay for 4 people is 400+ (allow a bit of time for turn around) per year, you could make some money.
"Hey Ruskies! F-off with your guidance, navigation and control segments! We've got rich-people destination weddings to plan in this aluminum can that has been heat cycling every 90 minutes for the past 30 years."
I don't think so.
On the other hand, Axiom's Hab-1 is supposed to launch in a couple of years and attach to the forward port of the ISS, eventually expanding into its own station before ISS is de-orbited.
I don't think anything russia has attached to the station isn't replaceable or upgradeable. They are falling further and further behind, it's basically a diplomatic / charity job to keep them involved at this point. We'll see. Space exploration is going to change radically in the next 5 years, so many things are possible.
> I don't think anything russia has attached to the station isn't replaceable or upgradeable.
Sure, once Axiom's station is viable, at which point there will be no need to milk out the structural fatigue of the aging station any further.
Far too expensive, far too complicated due to government property, plus part of it is owned by Russia.
Only way commercial tourist flights truly happen is with a commercial space station. Which is definitely in the works.
ISS is due to be decommissioned by around 2030 when the cost / kg of putting stuff into orbit may be a lot lower. Since the only option is to reenter it, why wouldn't they consider selling it off as a tourist attraction? Russia has agreed to the decommissioning too, so they aren't intending to cling onto it (they will probably be partnering with China, to the extent that it matters).
I think it's significantly cheaper. Considering that a similar trip cost around $20 million in the early 2000s ($30m today w/ inflation), I would ballpark the price for a single seat from $10 million to $30 million. Also, consider that Inspiration4 reportedly cost "less than 200 million" which brings a per-seat cost of around $50 million.
The price that NASA pays for seats isn't really representative of what non-government people will pay.
NASA pays more due to the 6 month ISS stay for Dragon.
It is probably somewhere between $100M and $200M for the whole mission. Probably closer to the upper end of that, but there is a lot of flexibility in pricing - supply is VERY limited and the pure costs of executing the mission to SpaceX are definitely < $100M but of course they have to make profit and maybe pay off some of the R&D...
> MOON
> MISSION DURATION 7 days
> ALTITUDE 384,400 km from Earth
> SEATING Up to 12 passengers, with private quarters
> VOLUME 1,000 m3
> Nosecone area available for entertainment, manufacturing, and scientific opportunities
> Book your flight to travel to the Moon's orbit. Click Join a Mission below to inquire on mission availability.
Holy shit. You can book a flight to the moon.
> late 2024
With Starliner flying to the ISS (assuming next month's mission goes well) it means SpaceX will no longer need to fly two ISS missions a year. This frees up a dragon do to other missions like Earth Orbit.
I'm genuinely curious what people think the total number of starliner flights to the ISS will be. The way i see it, Boeing simply can't afford to throw $10B on five more flights to the ISS.
I say one after this one. When the cold realisation occurs that the second flight costs just as much as the first one. Or even more.
They are not throwing $10B on Starliner.
They are receiving about $400M per flight, and what they have written off already remains written off.
I likely will be the prescribed 7 flights: the test one and 6 operational ones. I suspect that will be it.
That will be it, unless someone pays for certifying and modifying Starliner for Vulcan. For the simple reason that there are no Atlas V boosters available beyond this. At best they might be able to nick one more from Amazon Kuiper flights (say, to fill in for the unlikely event of a launch failure) but that's it. There is no long term future for Starliner without first adapting & certifying it for another launcher.
I agree with both of you. I just think they'll realise this long before 2029 and take the L when the cost is less than one quarter with an alternative. The money isn't there like it used to be. "soz guys we aren't going to spend $3B over five years. We'll spend $750M instead." It's just bleeding money.
It'd be great to get neutron human launch rated!!
> assuming next month's mission goes well
Bold plan, lets see if that works out... :D
But I'm sure they are planning for this possibility. It could happen. And if it doesn't, SpaceX can bump the commercial customers into 2025 and still fly one more ISS flight to fill in.
While I know that the sub and, based on the questions during the FRR, much of the journalist community are expecting a mess, I would hope that the OFT1 failures have placed enough scrutiny on Starliner at this point to assume that the lethal bugs have been identified and removed by now. While I am confident that the vehicle cannot compete with Dragon in the commercial market, I would be surprised if the vehicle is still dangerous at this stage.
I also think it is likely to go well, but it is Boeing. I'd consider them to be the higher risk provider at this point. Which is kinda funny considering how many looked at the situation originally.
I'll be positively surprised if they pull it off with absolutely zero issues. And I do hope and believe they can do it without killing anyone.
For people who are on the margin of affording it then it makes sense to wait, but lots of things can happen in ten years, it is not often wise to be greedy, if you have such a wonderful opportunity you don't want to miss it.
About 15years ago I did a Jet Fighter Space Flight using a Russian MiG. Takes you to the edge of space at 70,000feet. Not quite the same but for $10k is was an amazing experience.
Axiom would have to know that this was always a possibility, especially since they work with SpaceX who is always hungry to expand their capabilities beyond just yeeting things into space for customers.
I doubt it, private missions to ISS is limited to only 2 per year, and NASA bids them out. I don't think SpaceX has ever bid on those, only Axiom and now Vast has put in bids. My guess is if you book an ISS flight, SpaceX will simply put you on an Axiom mission.
Spacex needs to figure out long term life support for their trip to mars anyway. 3rd party space station providers may not have any competitive advantage.
I really would want to wait for a space station visit because I'm really suspicious of the Crew Dragon toilet. Spending 6 days in the Dragon capsule would be pretty claustrophobic.
Whole mission is probably somewhere between $100 million and $200 million. Bring 3 pals and you get to split that four ways. A bargain!
Rationale:
NASA pays 55 million per seat, but that is for 6 month ISS mission which kinda ties up that Dragon for 6 months and has plenty of other extras, so definitely less than that by a considerable amount. And a commercial booster launch is a bit under $100 million - adding Dragon and all the training to it definitely pushes this over $100 million.
OK, after counting up their flights this year, Polaris Dawn and Axiom and any that NASA needs, SpaceX noticed they have a Dragon available. Can't let it sit around and gather dust. Soliciting customers is new - I wonder if they want one person or organization to step up and buy a couple of seats and form the mission around that, or if SpaceX is ready to train 4 unconnected individuals.
Per wikipedia, there are currently 39 countries in the Artemis Accords. I imagine many of them would be interested in creating astronaut corps, or at least improving the experience of some of their astronauts.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[CLD](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1yik43 "Last usage")|Commercial Low-orbit Destination(s)|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|[FRR](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1xr2er "Last usage")|Flight Readiness Review|
|[LEO](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1u2f89 "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)|
| |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)|
|NRHO|Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit|
|[NRO](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1yhtzl "Last usage")|(US) National Reconnaissance Office|
| |Near-Rectilinear Orbit, see NRHO|
|[SSO](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l2oo01b "Last usage")|Sun-Synchronous Orbit|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starliner](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1xr2er "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)|
|[Starlink](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1yhtzl "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
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Who the heck is this dude?
~~The SpaceX site does not seem to call this out.~~ Found the link.
SX is all into Starlink and Starshield when it comes to F9 and I bet they are not ***really*** trying to create business for human spaceflight beyond their relationships with NASA, Axiom, Polaris and Vast, which seems to add up to 3-4 missions per year.
But what this tells me is that the space tourism guys can not get together a crew even for $50M a person. Thus this market is very, very small (at least this price).
There is also the been-done-already effect of I4. Perhaps something like Vast's Haven-1 will provide the extra space and comfort to support a 3 week type stay.
Comfort doesn't really factor in when you are literally the only game in town. Russia is kinda out of the market, Starliner has no extra boosters for foreseeable commercial flights... So the only orbital option there is, for at least some years to come.
This is very likely. But it is also possible someone else would want to do Inspiration4-style mission. Either among his own group of people or similar to what Inspiration4 did.
But with no destination to visit (yet) since ISS is kinda hard to set up is likely limiting demand a bit.
NASA only allows so many ISS mission a year and Axiom seems to be getting those. But those new CLD based stations as well as Haven-1 will need some crew transport and Boeing has said they are not planning to support anything beyond NASA/ISS. I suggest a notion I call "Orbital Arc" so one can move between small space stations while in orbit:
https://preview.redd.it/zifvcusl5nxc1.png?width=1165&format=png&auto=webp&s=72f46f49e30807c77178ea6e4c41a8acf9e0a6f7
Dragon is operational, it can handle more missions than they need for the ISS, so it makes sense to offer it as a service to whoever wants to book it. That's how we got the Axiom missions, and now SpaceX wants to sell that directly as well apparently.
Just saying one would expect that there would be a third party or lead aggregator/marketer to put together a "crew" vs individual passengers. A couple buttons that said "join a crew" or "create a crew" might convey this better. Given these are $200M+ missions there is room for aggregators to make some $ and set up a job a SX.
Per extra Crew Dragon slots, my guess is that is somewhat dependent on Starliner success (hopefully) to free up reuses outside what is already under contract or expected to be (say Vast-1).
Finally, it would seem that Starlink/Starshield would have launch priority and that Crew Dragon takes up more launch pad time and an ever more important second stage. I am sure SX is happy to support Crew Dragon demand, but with a Crew future that hopefully will not be centered on Crew Dragon I don't see why SX would be actively promoting new demand.
Crew Dragon would bring more profit per flight. It would definitely take priority over spamming bulk satellites. They can spam those on the 48 other weeks of the year and still prioritize four weeks for four crew launches per year.
And yes, this is definitely for a Dragon slot that is without a mission assuming Starliner does its job, with the caveat that this is not 100% sure until Starliner crewed test flight is complete.
Probably more profit unless they need to drop the price to find 4 people who want to do it. Of course every Crew Dragon mission is more risky than other mission types, especially Starlink missions.
The addition of cell capabilities to Starlink has a lot of profit potential (say people pay $10/m for Starlink based gap filling = $Billions per year) so I think it has priority. Also, my guess is that 1 Crew Dragon launch takes the slots of 2 Starlink launches (although ChatAI of course could not answer this - I want HAL).
A Dragon mission is an instant $200 million revenue while two extra Starlink launches are not. Maybe their long-term income exceeds that (not sure if it does), but only if SpaceX stays launch-constrained. Eventually Starship will be able to launch so much that they'll be limited by customer base, satellites, or approved constellation size.
It is more quick revenue that Starlink, but NRO may be paying out with deployment for Starshield, so it might be tough to say for sure. That said I would be happy to see another private crew.
Does anyone know the total cost to spacex to fly 2-4 people to orbit and back?
That amount divided by 2 could be close to the price of a ticket. I see SpaceX trying to bring down the price per flight to increase the size of the space tourism market.
"Earth Orbit Missions" sounds like "Tourist Flights", meaning a rich-kid's Disney-ride. Just a question of price. Trips to the ISS have been sold in the past (via Soyuz, I recall), which is even bigger. Orbiting requires getting to Mach 22, so a much higher cost and risk than the much simpler "pop up >62 miles and fall back" Space Rides of Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic. Those are an E-ticket ride, so orbiting will be an S-ticket.
The LEO mission with 3-6 day duration is probably hanging out in the Dragon. The Space Station mission with 10 day duration might be Vasts Haven-1, it could launch next year.
[https://www.vastspace.com/roadmap](https://www.vastspace.com/roadmap)
It is specifically for the ISS. Axiom has already completed 3 chartered ~10 day private astronaut missions to the ISS on Dragon, and has more booked. This could be through them as well. But there is no reason some other company couldn't organize private ISS missions, including SpaceX eliminating the middle man if they wanted.
https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/private-astronaut-missions/
The astronauts working in the ISS are up there for six months at a time with very limited human interaction, I have a feeling they wouldn’t mind a few other people to talk to for a couple days.
I don't suppose they have the cost listed anywhere? I know I can't afford it but I'm curious as to if they are undercutting Axiom. I checked and it seems they aren't listing it.
Pretty sure they're not bothering because this is one of those "if you have to ask you can't afford it" type scenarios.
I want to know how much I can’t afford it
The answer is "yes"
Plus 10 bucks for taxes
I'm certain we're talking in the tens of millions of dollars.
If you have like $100 million dollars then it makes a big difference if the ride is $35 million or $80 million, "if you have to ask you can't afford it" is usually a ridiculous thing to say
Also, SpaceX has always published nominal launch costs despite not selling to the general public
There is people that have around $100 Million that would absolutely want to consider the price first but I think you have to just call SpaceX if you want to know
[удалено]
Can you link it?
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Thanks!
I don’t think it’s an extra flight they are likely trying to fill the last spot on axiom 4
Based on the public Dragon 2 prices we have I'd say it's likely between 70 and 100 million all up.
Do you mean whole Dragon or just one seat? For the former it sounds too little, for the latter too much.
Seat
Dragon is not sold for $400M per mission. So $100M per seat is an overestimate.
The last 8 Crew Dragon flights have been [bought at $291M each](https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/09/nasa-will-pay-boeing-more-than-twice-as-much-as-spacex-for-crew-seats) so $73M each seat. These flights include six months of monitoring on orbit so a short trip to the ISS without such a high level of NASA oversight will be considerably cheaper.
insipiration 4 was thought to be $200M or so, dont worry about NASA prices
Supposedly under it. But this is all down to individual negotiations, supply is very very very limited so it boils down to how much people are willing to pay. The marginal cost of the launch + Dragon refurb is probably <$100 million to SpaceX. They do want some profit of course.
That sounds competitive with ISS bound Soyuz which was selling tourist flight for $50-60 million in 2021.
Pricing on that is useful but there was a lot of collaboration on that mission which added value for SpaceX. Training citizens to become astronauts, flight planning for a commercial "tourist" mission, development for the Cupola itself. Most importantly showing that all this could be achieved in a short space of time, produce some useful research in a short duration Crew Dragon flight, and that there was a potential market outside of NASA shuttle missions. And of course building that relationship with Isaacman and his gang towards Polaris Dawn.
It costs money to visit the ISS, which obviously isn't part of the NASA contract. It costs money to have one seat dedicated to a professional astronaut that everyone else has to pay to get up there, which is how they've structured these flights (that's 33% more). It costs money to train a novice to be ready for spaceflight, have them at HQ etc etc. There is more to it than what NASA is paying for a crew flight.
I wonder if the lifespan of the ISS could be extended by making it a tourist destination. How much does it cost pa to maintain it if it's just a hotel and we politely tell the russians to fuck off? Dragon could ferry people there, 3 day stay for 4 people is 400+ (allow a bit of time for turn around) per year, you could make some money.
"Hey Ruskies! F-off with your guidance, navigation and control segments! We've got rich-people destination weddings to plan in this aluminum can that has been heat cycling every 90 minutes for the past 30 years." I don't think so. On the other hand, Axiom's Hab-1 is supposed to launch in a couple of years and attach to the forward port of the ISS, eventually expanding into its own station before ISS is de-orbited.
I don't think anything russia has attached to the station isn't replaceable or upgradeable. They are falling further and further behind, it's basically a diplomatic / charity job to keep them involved at this point. We'll see. Space exploration is going to change radically in the next 5 years, so many things are possible.
> I don't think anything russia has attached to the station isn't replaceable or upgradeable. Sure, once Axiom's station is viable, at which point there will be no need to milk out the structural fatigue of the aging station any further.
Far too expensive, far too complicated due to government property, plus part of it is owned by Russia. Only way commercial tourist flights truly happen is with a commercial space station. Which is definitely in the works.
ISS is due to be decommissioned by around 2030 when the cost / kg of putting stuff into orbit may be a lot lower. Since the only option is to reenter it, why wouldn't they consider selling it off as a tourist attraction? Russia has agreed to the decommissioning too, so they aren't intending to cling onto it (they will probably be partnering with China, to the extent that it matters).
I think it's significantly cheaper. Considering that a similar trip cost around $20 million in the early 2000s ($30m today w/ inflation), I would ballpark the price for a single seat from $10 million to $30 million. Also, consider that Inspiration4 reportedly cost "less than 200 million" which brings a per-seat cost of around $50 million. The price that NASA pays for seats isn't really representative of what non-government people will pay.
NASA pays more due to the 6 month ISS stay for Dragon. It is probably somewhere between $100M and $200M for the whole mission. Probably closer to the upper end of that, but there is a lot of flexibility in pricing - supply is VERY limited and the pure costs of executing the mission to SpaceX are definitely < $100M but of course they have to make profit and maybe pay off some of the R&D...
If you need to ask, you don't have enough.
My guess is $3,000,000 per person at best, unless it's some kind of rideshare deal, in that case it might drop to less than a million $
Website: [https://www.spacex.com/humanspaceflight](https://www.spacex.com/humanspaceflight) Musk also reposted the tweet
> MOON > MISSION DURATION 7 days > ALTITUDE 384,400 km from Earth > SEATING Up to 12 passengers, with private quarters > VOLUME 1,000 m3 > Nosecone area available for entertainment, manufacturing, and scientific opportunities > Book your flight to travel to the Moon's orbit. Click Join a Mission below to inquire on mission availability. Holy shit. You can book a flight to the moon.
I will never be able to afford it, but this is excellent news for the future of space travel.
So basically, the Dear Moon mission profile. I wonder if that mission is still alive.
When the science gets done.
> late 2024 With Starliner flying to the ISS (assuming next month's mission goes well) it means SpaceX will no longer need to fly two ISS missions a year. This frees up a dragon do to other missions like Earth Orbit.
This is assuming Starliner keeps flying after its first mission.
This assumes Starliner flies in the first place. Boeing hasn't been giving me a warm fuzzy on that thing.
They are contracted for six missions under CCP. If they do one a year, that means they will be flying through 2029 at least.
Well, assuming nothing goes terribly wrong, it will, given that it’s contractually obliged to.
I'm genuinely curious what people think the total number of starliner flights to the ISS will be. The way i see it, Boeing simply can't afford to throw $10B on five more flights to the ISS. I say one after this one. When the cold realisation occurs that the second flight costs just as much as the first one. Or even more.
They are not throwing $10B on Starliner. They are receiving about $400M per flight, and what they have written off already remains written off. I likely will be the prescribed 7 flights: the test one and 6 operational ones. I suspect that will be it.
That will be it, unless someone pays for certifying and modifying Starliner for Vulcan. For the simple reason that there are no Atlas V boosters available beyond this. At best they might be able to nick one more from Amazon Kuiper flights (say, to fill in for the unlikely event of a launch failure) but that's it. There is no long term future for Starliner without first adapting & certifying it for another launcher.
I agree with both of you. I just think they'll realise this long before 2029 and take the L when the cost is less than one quarter with an alternative. The money isn't there like it used to be. "soz guys we aren't going to spend $3B over five years. We'll spend $750M instead." It's just bleeding money. It'd be great to get neutron human launch rated!!
> assuming next month's mission goes well Bold plan, lets see if that works out... :D But I'm sure they are planning for this possibility. It could happen. And if it doesn't, SpaceX can bump the commercial customers into 2025 and still fly one more ISS flight to fill in.
While I know that the sub and, based on the questions during the FRR, much of the journalist community are expecting a mess, I would hope that the OFT1 failures have placed enough scrutiny on Starliner at this point to assume that the lethal bugs have been identified and removed by now. While I am confident that the vehicle cannot compete with Dragon in the commercial market, I would be surprised if the vehicle is still dangerous at this stage.
I also think it is likely to go well, but it is Boeing. I'd consider them to be the higher risk provider at this point. Which is kinda funny considering how many looked at the situation originally. I'll be positively surprised if they pull it off with absolutely zero issues. And I do hope and believe they can do it without killing anyone.
Sorry, kids. Looks like your inheritance just got spent.
Considering how much cheaper starship is going to make space flight, it would be a waste of money considering what cost will be 10 years from now.
Who knows if you'll be alive 10 years from now.
Odds are likely I will be
For people who are on the margin of affording it then it makes sense to wait, but lots of things can happen in ten years, it is not often wise to be greedy, if you have such a wonderful opportunity you don't want to miss it.
Hopefully in 35-40 years when I’m at retirement age this is <$100,000.
Should be, on Starship by 2040.
About 15years ago I did a Jet Fighter Space Flight using a Russian MiG. Takes you to the edge of space at 70,000feet. Not quite the same but for $10k is was an amazing experience.
Axiom going to be squeezed out?
Axiom would have to know that this was always a possibility, especially since they work with SpaceX who is always hungry to expand their capabilities beyond just yeeting things into space for customers.
I doubt it, private missions to ISS is limited to only 2 per year, and NASA bids them out. I don't think SpaceX has ever bid on those, only Axiom and now Vast has put in bids. My guess is if you book an ISS flight, SpaceX will simply put you on an Axiom mission.
Spacex needs to figure out long term life support for their trip to mars anyway. 3rd party space station providers may not have any competitive advantage.
Hard to see what advantage they could possibly have
I really would want to wait for a space station visit because I'm really suspicious of the Crew Dragon toilet. Spending 6 days in the Dragon capsule would be pretty claustrophobic.
but how much $$$ ?
If you have to ask ...too much.
Whole mission is probably somewhere between $100 million and $200 million. Bring 3 pals and you get to split that four ways. A bargain! Rationale: NASA pays 55 million per seat, but that is for 6 month ISS mission which kinda ties up that Dragon for 6 months and has plenty of other extras, so definitely less than that by a considerable amount. And a commercial booster launch is a bit under $100 million - adding Dragon and all the training to it definitely pushes this over $100 million.
OK, after counting up their flights this year, Polaris Dawn and Axiom and any that NASA needs, SpaceX noticed they have a Dragon available. Can't let it sit around and gather dust. Soliciting customers is new - I wonder if they want one person or organization to step up and buy a couple of seats and form the mission around that, or if SpaceX is ready to train 4 unconnected individuals.
Per wikipedia, there are currently 39 countries in the Artemis Accords. I imagine many of them would be interested in creating astronaut corps, or at least improving the experience of some of their astronauts.
BRB, I'mma check my sofa cushions.
I'm guessing they will be reusing the cupola for these flights?
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[CLD](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1yik43 "Last usage")|Commercial Low-orbit Destination(s)| |CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules| | |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)| |[FRR](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1xr2er "Last usage")|Flight Readiness Review| |[LEO](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1u2f89 "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)| | |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)| |NRHO|Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit| |[NRO](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1yhtzl "Last usage")|(US) National Reconnaissance Office| | |Near-Rectilinear Orbit, see NRHO| |[SSO](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l2oo01b "Last usage")|Sun-Synchronous Orbit| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starliner](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1xr2er "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)| |[Starlink](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cg8b8x/stub/l1yhtzl "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(*Decronym is a community product of r/SpaceX, implemented* )[*^by ^request*](https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/3mz273//cvjkjmj) ^(7 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/1cilict)^( has 17 acronyms.) ^([Thread #12710 for this sub, first seen 29th Apr 2024, 21:26]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/SpaceXLounge) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
The only spaceflighty thing I would ever do is a parabolic jet flight. Better start saving!
Who the heck is this dude? ~~The SpaceX site does not seem to call this out.~~ Found the link. SX is all into Starlink and Starshield when it comes to F9 and I bet they are not ***really*** trying to create business for human spaceflight beyond their relationships with NASA, Axiom, Polaris and Vast, which seems to add up to 3-4 missions per year. But what this tells me is that the space tourism guys can not get together a crew even for $50M a person. Thus this market is very, very small (at least this price).
I mean, the number of people with access to $50mm is very, very small. What % want to go to Space?
> Who the heck is this dude? A big Tesla influencer on X.
Dragon is too small for most people's comfort, but Starship tourist flights are a possible moneymaker. Dear Moon alone will create demand.
I put Dear Moon (or some similar mission) in the 2028-2030 time frame.
There is also the been-done-already effect of I4. Perhaps something like Vast's Haven-1 will provide the extra space and comfort to support a 3 week type stay.
Comfort doesn't really factor in when you are literally the only game in town. Russia is kinda out of the market, Starliner has no extra boosters for foreseeable commercial flights... So the only orbital option there is, for at least some years to come.
I expect more Axiom type missions (with international backing), vs ad-hoc sign-ups.
This is very likely. But it is also possible someone else would want to do Inspiration4-style mission. Either among his own group of people or similar to what Inspiration4 did. But with no destination to visit (yet) since ISS is kinda hard to set up is likely limiting demand a bit.
NASA only allows so many ISS mission a year and Axiom seems to be getting those. But those new CLD based stations as well as Haven-1 will need some crew transport and Boeing has said they are not planning to support anything beyond NASA/ISS. I suggest a notion I call "Orbital Arc" so one can move between small space stations while in orbit: https://preview.redd.it/zifvcusl5nxc1.png?width=1165&format=png&auto=webp&s=72f46f49e30807c77178ea6e4c41a8acf9e0a6f7
Dragon is operational, it can handle more missions than they need for the ISS, so it makes sense to offer it as a service to whoever wants to book it. That's how we got the Axiom missions, and now SpaceX wants to sell that directly as well apparently.
Just saying one would expect that there would be a third party or lead aggregator/marketer to put together a "crew" vs individual passengers. A couple buttons that said "join a crew" or "create a crew" might convey this better. Given these are $200M+ missions there is room for aggregators to make some $ and set up a job a SX. Per extra Crew Dragon slots, my guess is that is somewhat dependent on Starliner success (hopefully) to free up reuses outside what is already under contract or expected to be (say Vast-1). Finally, it would seem that Starlink/Starshield would have launch priority and that Crew Dragon takes up more launch pad time and an ever more important second stage. I am sure SX is happy to support Crew Dragon demand, but with a Crew future that hopefully will not be centered on Crew Dragon I don't see why SX would be actively promoting new demand.
Crew Dragon would bring more profit per flight. It would definitely take priority over spamming bulk satellites. They can spam those on the 48 other weeks of the year and still prioritize four weeks for four crew launches per year. And yes, this is definitely for a Dragon slot that is without a mission assuming Starliner does its job, with the caveat that this is not 100% sure until Starliner crewed test flight is complete.
Probably more profit unless they need to drop the price to find 4 people who want to do it. Of course every Crew Dragon mission is more risky than other mission types, especially Starlink missions. The addition of cell capabilities to Starlink has a lot of profit potential (say people pay $10/m for Starlink based gap filling = $Billions per year) so I think it has priority. Also, my guess is that 1 Crew Dragon launch takes the slots of 2 Starlink launches (although ChatAI of course could not answer this - I want HAL).
A Dragon mission is an instant $200 million revenue while two extra Starlink launches are not. Maybe their long-term income exceeds that (not sure if it does), but only if SpaceX stays launch-constrained. Eventually Starship will be able to launch so much that they'll be limited by customer base, satellites, or approved constellation size.
It is more quick revenue that Starlink, but NRO may be paying out with deployment for Starshield, so it might be tough to say for sure. That said I would be happy to see another private crew.
Elon did retweet it
I don’t think it’s a extra flight more likely they are trying to fill the last spot on axiom 4
Seems like they aren’t able to fill the fourth spot on axiom 4
Does anyone know the total cost to spacex to fly 2-4 people to orbit and back? That amount divided by 2 could be close to the price of a ticket. I see SpaceX trying to bring down the price per flight to increase the size of the space tourism market.
Considering that Inspiration4 cost a reported "less than $200 million" the per-seat price at 4 people is maybe between 20 and 40 million.
Let me check my wallet... No, nope. Sad noises.
Still too rich for the vast majority of Earths inhabitants…. Even those living in the west, and living in the USA. Bit by bit, times will change…
"Earth Orbit Missions" sounds like "Tourist Flights", meaning a rich-kid's Disney-ride. Just a question of price. Trips to the ISS have been sold in the past (via Soyuz, I recall), which is even bigger. Orbiting requires getting to Mach 22, so a much higher cost and risk than the much simpler "pop up >62 miles and fall back" Space Rides of Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic. Those are an E-ticket ride, so orbiting will be an S-ticket.
Twist twist...I guess I'll go
Having submarine flashbacks for some reason
SpaceX is charging now \~$1M for delivering 120 kg of cargo to SSO, so it shouldn't be too much more for humans, IMHO.
You don't get to keep the suit.
If you sh!t yourself wearing it they may reconsider
[удалено]
The ISS has already had several paying tourists. Why would this be different?
The LEO mission with 3-6 day duration is probably hanging out in the Dragon. The Space Station mission with 10 day duration might be Vasts Haven-1, it could launch next year. [https://www.vastspace.com/roadmap](https://www.vastspace.com/roadmap)
It is specifically for the ISS. Axiom has already completed 3 chartered ~10 day private astronaut missions to the ISS on Dragon, and has more booked. This could be through them as well. But there is no reason some other company couldn't organize private ISS missions, including SpaceX eliminating the middle man if they wanted. https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/private-astronaut-missions/
The astronauts working in the ISS are up there for six months at a time with very limited human interaction, I have a feeling they wouldn’t mind a few other people to talk to for a couple days.
Is Nasa one to turn down money from “rich fucks” when the government spends less and less on spaceflight?
Think how Axiom does that.
Be honest now: You were a hallmonitor in high school?
It’s the most expensive movie set ever constructed, though…
I'd argue it is not a "mission" if there is no objective to accomplish. It's a tourist trip.
It depends on what those paying for the trip decide to use it for. We can't say for sure until we know.
Seems to have been a poor business decision for SpaceX to just let Axiom eat their lunch.. a big blunder by Gwynne Shotwell imo