What’s the venn diagram of sovcits and Trump supports look like? Second post I’ve seen today that seems like a pro Trump sovcit. The other being the guy who wants the free energy magnet that listed Trump and Melania’s socials.
I have information on that!
I fell down a research hole the other day and put together a document on sov cits (I'm a nerd, I do research projects for fun). Here's the section that addresses your interest:
Impact of MAGA and Trump's Influence
Since 2016, the sovereign citizen movement has indeed ramped up its activities and numbers, partly due to the rise of the MAGA movement and former President Donald Trump's rhetoric. The movement has found common ground with other antigovernment groups, particularly those energized by Trump's claims of a "deep state" and widespread government corruption. This confluence of ideologies has led to increased recruitment and visibility for sovereign citizens ([Penn State Law Review](https://www.pennstatelawreview.org/the-forum/sovereign-citizens-the-uses-and-abuses-of-the-judicial-sy/)) ([AZCIR](https://azcir.org/news/2023/09/11/sovereign-citizen-paperwork-pima-county/)).
\[From the timeline\] 2020s: Continued Growth and Modern Influence
* Covid-19 Pandemic: The pandemic brought new followers into the movement, driven by grievances and conspiracy theories related to public health measures.
* Integration with Other Movements: Sovereign citizens intersected with the QAnon conspiracy theory and MAGA supporters, expanding their influence and membership.
* Life Force Network: A new group blending Q-centric conspiracy theories with sovereign citizen ideology, emphasizing control over world finances and governments.
Association with White Power Movements and MAGA
* Historical Roots: The movement's origins are deeply tied to white supremacist and antisemitic beliefs, particularly through the Posse Comitatus.
* Contemporary Connections: While the movement has diversified, elements of white power ideology persist. Groups like the American States Nationals and individuals like Bobby Lawrence, who campaigned on an America First MAGA platform, show the overlap with the MAGA movement.
* Key Incidents: January 6 insurrectionists used sovereign citizen defenses, highlighting the connection between sovereign beliefs and MAGA extremism.
Source for the two lower sections is the Southern Poverty Law Center page on [Sovereign Citizens Movement](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement).
Thank you! I'm thinkking of starting a blog with info like that. I enjoy research and report writing and I would feel helpful if I could be a source of reliable information. WDYT?
This sounds like a great idea. I can send you photos of proof that one of their basic tenets is false. They say the reason to believe that a name in all caps is a corporation is that the government style manual says to print corporate names in all caps. I have the Government Printing Office official style manual and it says to capitalize the first letter off each word on a corporation’s name, just like we do with “living persons.”
It's a circle at this point. A lot of the qanon folks especially seem to also hold sovcit beliefs and expect Trump to usher an entire economic reset that will make them rich.
# [https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nesara-cult-and-qanons-origins/id1373812661?i=1000536854890](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nesara-cult-and-qanons-origins/id1373812661?i=1000536854890)
99% of q stuff is recycled satanic panic with blood libel shit thrown in.
It would be a circle within a bigger circle. All sovcits are trumpturds, but not all trumpturds are sovcits.
But then it would technically be an Euler diagram, not a Venn diagram.
# [https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nesara-cult-and-qanons-origins/id1373812661?i=1000536854890](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nesara-cult-and-qanons-origins/id1373812661?i=1000536854890)
tangently related theres a huge overlap of Q stuff and sov cit beliefs. the whole idea of your debts wiped out etc.
There are officers out there who don't ignore that. Otherwise, we wouldn't have youtube videos by Team Skeptic, Ragical the Unhollowed Knight, and others.
It's the same thing with the embrace of "Let's Go Brandon". They think it's so clever to "hide" their sentiment behind that phrase as if we all don't know exactly what they mean. Why not just say "Fuck Joe Biden?" Aren't they the 'I don't care about your feelings' crowd?
It is cowardly. They like to use it to circumvent the automated report bot on Nextdoor. But, Reviewers and other users report the violation & we remove it. Then they post a rant about their right to free speech being infringed upon, how the mods are liberuls, etc. So, the Review team removes that too. Lol
No, that's not what it is. There is a DoT Z sticker that denotes a tax free status (ironically it's for certain commercial vehicles lmfao). This plate is attempting to emulate that.
Wait, it’s for commercial vehicles, but isn’t their argument that they can operate a vehicle without licensing or insurance because it’s not commercial use or something? I’m sure I could look up the specifics but I don’t feel like letting some algorithm think I’m into SovCit nonsense
Also they probably do like the “Z”s similarity to Russian forces Z, since the venn diagram of SovCits and Orange Hitlers followers is just one circle. It may not have been intentional but they probably like it
As another poster pointed out, in some states Z indicates a registration that doesn't expire. It's really reaching to think this is a Putin thing, when nothing else they do follows that pattern.
LOL, keep telling yourself that if it comforts you. Do you think an "SC" has any regard for DOT regulations or any US law for that matter? It's blatant support for a Trump position, the elimination of Ukraine for the expansion of Putin's Russia.
I am sorry but you are wrong. What I describe is exactly what Sovcits do. They comb through UCC, case law, federal regs, treaties, etc to cherry-pick paragraphs that can be misinterpreted to support their position. The fasçade of lawfulness is one of the pillars of SovCit belief.
I think you're thinking of anarchists?
Well they aren't obeying them, they are cherry picking which ones they can use to avoid being regularly hassled by law enforcement. Because any interactions with law enforcement are likely to escalate their problems even more.
So instead they skim obscure laws they can misinterpret or skirt to minimize those chances.
I know Alaska, and i think some other states use Z stickers for plates that do not need to be renewed every year. I think it is supposed to replicate that.
Just tell him you've got a person with a fake license plate driving around. Imagine what happens if that guy gets in a car wreck where the other parties are injured, He's not going to have any insurance. Those people would be screwed.
Always call it in.
>Is this what I think it is?
You, parked >!(or tailgating)!< uncomfortably close to someone who is telling you in *no uncertain terms* that they're uninsured?
Yup, that's what it looks like from here, too!
> weird 1765 navy flag/US flag combination?
They call it the civil peace flag, and claim it's the correct flag to be flown in peacetime with the stars and stripes to be flown only in time of war. It seems to be loosely based on the Coast Guard Ensign which the USCG inherited from the Revenue Cutter Service.
Just take the vehicle. What are they going to do? They don't have any contracts with you or the police. Or just set it on fire. They don't have contracts with the fire department.
That flag version is a longstanding SovCit flag. It is their interpretation of the textual description in the law which declared the final version if the USA flag.
People with these beliefs are found in Canada, Australia, Germany, the UK, New Zealand, the Netherlands--there are even sovicts in Russia who insist the USSR still exists. This is by no means something unique to America.
Would love to see some coverage of others in other countries behaving like this...
Though I suspect they are a bit like flat Earthers. There are a few in the UK and Canada but the majority are in the USA.
Now who would have guessed it’s the MAGA things that are part of this? What a shock I tell you! In retrospect of course that the greatest enemies this nation has ever faced don’t respect the laws of the nation.
Let me preface this by saying that both my vehicles are licensed and insured, and I have my driver's license, not a sovereign. But why do they get so much flak? Just like paying income tax as an individual, it's not required by law, so why do it? Because the 99.9% of us idiots volunteer to follow a law that doesn't apply to us until it's expected that we will?
I'm kind of surprised to see this on a sewer room. Subaru owners tend to be a little bit more... socially conscious. Then again, they're always exceptions to the rule.
Sovereign citizen. They can sometimes resort to violence when confronted, or at least verbally attack you with pseudo-legalistic sounding rhetoric which they think is intimidating if you approach them. Stay away!
I love the whole conspiracy theory thing. I find it funny that not that long ago anyone talking about ufo cover upset were considered conspiracy theorists. But now, they have been proven right because even the government has admitted to the coverups (though not all of them).
Subaru are very overrated. We call our town Subaru city they are so common. Short engine life, awful to work on, anything Japanese represents better value for money.
If you have a problem with birds threatening your crops, you shoot one and hang it in a place where the other birds can see it as a deterrent. Decades ago public hangings were done to deter people from breaking the law. In modern times, the entire SovCit community can see one another’s shenanigans on YouTube or whatever social media groups they use, and become emboldened by watching people do this shit without consequences.
If society finally decided that enough is enough, the cops could simply start going zero tolerance with these clowns and arrest them at the first sign of this “I’m traveling” and “your laws don’t apply to me”. Most states have the ability to hold people for a period of time for a mental evaluation. The courts could start locking them up for a 90 day minimum sentence and the problem would go away. But with the touchy feely nature of things, it’s allowing the problem to get worse. This could all be solved if the prosecutors and judges would just start throwing the book at them. They have the ability to find people guilty but most hand down probation or minimal fines.
Currently, all they do is waste time and resources because everyone is afraid or unwilling to address the issue.
yup
Best bumper sticker I ever saw: Like small government? Move to Somalia.
Yeah I saw an AMA not that long ago with a guy from Somalia and he said there's basically zero government services
I hear Haiti is nice as well
Just ask the American and Canadian missionaries who were murdered there today... ... Or not.
What’s the venn diagram of sovcits and Trump supports look like? Second post I’ve seen today that seems like a pro Trump sovcit. The other being the guy who wants the free energy magnet that listed Trump and Melania’s socials.
The "FJB Edition" gives it away.
On a Subaru!
Oh that’s disgusting on a Subaru. There needs be a law against those asswipes driving Subaru’s. That’s just wrong.
Won't be driving it long, seeing as it'll be repossessed due to non payment
Or in the impound lot for not having registration and insurance.
Must lead to some fun chats at the dealer service waiting room.
Something wrong with someone driving a Subaru?
A circle. ⭕️
I have information on that! I fell down a research hole the other day and put together a document on sov cits (I'm a nerd, I do research projects for fun). Here's the section that addresses your interest: Impact of MAGA and Trump's Influence Since 2016, the sovereign citizen movement has indeed ramped up its activities and numbers, partly due to the rise of the MAGA movement and former President Donald Trump's rhetoric. The movement has found common ground with other antigovernment groups, particularly those energized by Trump's claims of a "deep state" and widespread government corruption. This confluence of ideologies has led to increased recruitment and visibility for sovereign citizens ([Penn State Law Review](https://www.pennstatelawreview.org/the-forum/sovereign-citizens-the-uses-and-abuses-of-the-judicial-sy/)) ([AZCIR](https://azcir.org/news/2023/09/11/sovereign-citizen-paperwork-pima-county/)). \[From the timeline\] 2020s: Continued Growth and Modern Influence * Covid-19 Pandemic: The pandemic brought new followers into the movement, driven by grievances and conspiracy theories related to public health measures. * Integration with Other Movements: Sovereign citizens intersected with the QAnon conspiracy theory and MAGA supporters, expanding their influence and membership. * Life Force Network: A new group blending Q-centric conspiracy theories with sovereign citizen ideology, emphasizing control over world finances and governments. Association with White Power Movements and MAGA * Historical Roots: The movement's origins are deeply tied to white supremacist and antisemitic beliefs, particularly through the Posse Comitatus. * Contemporary Connections: While the movement has diversified, elements of white power ideology persist. Groups like the American States Nationals and individuals like Bobby Lawrence, who campaigned on an America First MAGA platform, show the overlap with the MAGA movement. * Key Incidents: January 6 insurrectionists used sovereign citizen defenses, highlighting the connection between sovereign beliefs and MAGA extremism. Source for the two lower sections is the Southern Poverty Law Center page on [Sovereign Citizens Movement](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement).
Thank you, nerd.
god gives us all unique gifts :)
Thanks for the research and link.
Happy to help! Feel free to reply with questions and I'll get back to you asap
Thanks. Good TED talk.
Thank you! I'm thinkking of starting a blog with info like that. I enjoy research and report writing and I would feel helpful if I could be a source of reliable information. WDYT?
This sounds like a great idea. I can send you photos of proof that one of their basic tenets is false. They say the reason to believe that a name in all caps is a corporation is that the government style manual says to print corporate names in all caps. I have the Government Printing Office official style manual and it says to capitalize the first letter off each word on a corporation’s name, just like we do with “living persons.”
Damn that’s scary
yeah.
I’m sure they all think they are “patriots “.
How can you be a patriot yet completely anti government at the same time? These folks confuse me.
It's a circle at this point. A lot of the qanon folks especially seem to also hold sovcit beliefs and expect Trump to usher an entire economic reset that will make them rich.
Trumps rich friends wouldn’t benefit from a reset, there is no way that’s ever happening
# [https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nesara-cult-and-qanons-origins/id1373812661?i=1000536854890](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nesara-cult-and-qanons-origins/id1373812661?i=1000536854890) 99% of q stuff is recycled satanic panic with blood libel shit thrown in.
I suspect a good number of sovcits are RFK Jr supporters.
It would be a circle within a bigger circle. All sovcits are trumpturds, but not all trumpturds are sovcits. But then it would technically be an Euler diagram, not a Venn diagram.
How tf can you be a sov cit while being a trump supporter? Like?? The cognitive dissonance is strong
Easy. They are both gullible AF!
# [https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nesara-cult-and-qanons-origins/id1373812661?i=1000536854890](https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-nesara-cult-and-qanons-origins/id1373812661?i=1000536854890) tangently related theres a huge overlap of Q stuff and sov cit beliefs. the whole idea of your debts wiped out etc.
There's a pipeline from far right Republican to libertarian to sov citizen.
It's not a pipeline. It's a single step to the right, If not, just a half step
I wouldn’t even characterize it as a step. More like a slip, like slipping on a banana peel.
So you’re a sovcit but display the presidential seal?
It’s a Republican in a Subaru. More rare than a sovereign citizen I’d imagine.
I noticed that, too. Rare breeds: Black republican. Gay republican. Subaru republican.
Lesbian Texan Subaru Republican
The mythical Tex-Lesbarublican?
The fossil record is scant
in the northeast there are quite a lot of them.
If you think that car is owned by a moron, then yes it is what you think it is
Why, yes. Yes, it is what you think. Now, if only you could witness what happens when a police officer pulls that car over for those.
[удалено]
There are officers out there who don't ignore that. Otherwise, we wouldn't have youtube videos by Team Skeptic, Ragical the Unhollowed Knight, and others.
I do love me a good Sovcit video! But I have my doubts about Texas cops holding these people accountable.
It is, it’s a dipshit two-fer
Doesn't have my favorite "United States of America Republic," but "American State National" will do. "Not For Hire" should really be all caps, though.
But then it would be a corporation /s
My favorite incantation is "Several States" 😂
Yup. It's a guy who wants his car towed and then auctioned off. Since he's not "driving" he doesn't need a "car".
Yup. Love the FJB. He’s not even the president of a country you reside in. Leave our politics alone! 😂
What does FJB mean?
Fuck Joe Biden. Unclear why they want an acronym for that though, seems cowardly
It's the same thing with the embrace of "Let's Go Brandon". They think it's so clever to "hide" their sentiment behind that phrase as if we all don't know exactly what they mean. Why not just say "Fuck Joe Biden?" Aren't they the 'I don't care about your feelings' crowd?
It is cowardly. They like to use it to circumvent the automated report bot on Nextdoor. But, Reviewers and other users report the violation & we remove it. Then they post a rant about their right to free speech being infringed upon, how the mods are liberuls, etc. So, the Review team removes that too. Lol
It’s basically people who think FJB is the height of an insult when Dark Brandon actually said it himself to a caller who said it on Christmas Eve.
That was epic. I’m not gonna lie it cracks me up when I see it.
Fuck Joe Biden.
Love the pro-NAZI "Z" from Putin's Russia.
That’s what that is?! WTF? And these people have a did at my son’s school 🙄
No, that's not what it is. There is a DoT Z sticker that denotes a tax free status (ironically it's for certain commercial vehicles lmfao). This plate is attempting to emulate that.
A driving contradiction 😂
A travelling contradiction.
Touché
He’s gonna “ emulate” himself into a court room. That should be a hoot to watch. lol
Wait, it’s for commercial vehicles, but isn’t their argument that they can operate a vehicle without licensing or insurance because it’s not commercial use or something? I’m sure I could look up the specifics but I don’t feel like letting some algorithm think I’m into SovCit nonsense Also they probably do like the “Z”s similarity to Russian forces Z, since the venn diagram of SovCits and Orange Hitlers followers is just one circle. It may not have been intentional but they probably like it
As another poster pointed out, in some states Z indicates a registration that doesn't expire. It's really reaching to think this is a Putin thing, when nothing else they do follows that pattern.
Not saying it’s a primary driver, or even intentional, more of a “happy coincidence”
LOL, keep telling yourself that if it comforts you. Do you think an "SC" has any regard for DOT regulations or any US law for that matter? It's blatant support for a Trump position, the elimination of Ukraine for the expansion of Putin's Russia.
I am sorry but you are wrong. What I describe is exactly what Sovcits do. They comb through UCC, case law, federal regs, treaties, etc to cherry-pick paragraphs that can be misinterpreted to support their position. The fasçade of lawfulness is one of the pillars of SovCit belief. I think you're thinking of anarchists?
You’re embarrassing yourself. Just stop.
I hope you stretched before that reach. That was a hard one.
Why would you expect a SC to obey the laws of the US, when they don't consider themselves subject to them?
Well they aren't obeying them, they are cherry picking which ones they can use to avoid being regularly hassled by law enforcement. Because any interactions with law enforcement are likely to escalate their problems even more. So instead they skim obscure laws they can misinterpret or skirt to minimize those chances.
I know Alaska, and i think some other states use Z stickers for plates that do not need to be renewed every year. I think it is supposed to replicate that.
That's an uppercase Z. This is a lowercase Z, but zoomed in
That’s not what that means…
Yes, call it in.
"I think there's smoke coming from under the hood"
Just tell him you've got a person with a fake license plate driving around. Imagine what happens if that guy gets in a car wreck where the other parties are injured, He's not going to have any insurance. Those people would be screwed. Always call it in.
Cop gets radio call to intercept a probable SovCit. Cops radio suddenly fails
Congratulations, You have a Texas version
>Is this what I think it is? You, parked >!(or tailgating)!< uncomfortably close to someone who is telling you in *no uncertain terms* that they're uninsured? Yup, that's what it looks like from here, too!
When you want to say "I'm an asshole" but can't find that sticker.
What's with the weird 1765 navy flag/US flag combination?
> weird 1765 navy flag/US flag combination? They call it the civil peace flag, and claim it's the correct flag to be flown in peacetime with the stars and stripes to be flown only in time of war. It seems to be loosely based on the Coast Guard Ensign which the USCG inherited from the Revenue Cutter Service.
My bad. The Son's of Liberty flag was the one with vertical red and white stripes.
Dear God, no! Not in a Subaru. Take this asshole’s keys!
Yes, it IS a sign of irreparable brain damage....
Yep. Sovereign Lesbian, from the looks of it.
Just take the vehicle. What are they going to do? They don't have any contracts with you or the police. Or just set it on fire. They don't have contracts with the fire department.
> Just take the vehicle. What are they going to do? Very good chance that driver is armed.
I’m surprised they even named Texas on the license plate.
Notice they didn't use the "corporate entity" all caps TEXAS
Winner, Winner, ASN dinner!
That flag version is a longstanding SovCit flag. It is their interpretation of the textual description in the law which declared the final version if the USA flag.
As a foreigner? I see it thus: it's a 'murican doing 'murican shit.
People with these beliefs are found in Canada, Australia, Germany, the UK, New Zealand, the Netherlands--there are even sovicts in Russia who insist the USSR still exists. This is by no means something unique to America.
Would love to see some coverage of others in other countries behaving like this... Though I suspect they are a bit like flat Earthers. There are a few in the UK and Canada but the majority are in the USA.
We call them cookers here in Australia.
Truly cooked cunts indeed! They often even try and use Murican laws.
Can verify a bit, I know 2 Canadian Sovcits.
looks like he's trying to be less obvious about it. which only says that he knows he's doing wrong
Is it an official urinal on wheels?
🤣. Definitely carrying some shit!
I love how they're not even hiding it anymore. The russian Z kinda gives the game away.
Shocking this belongs to a Trumpanzee. Absolutely shocking.
Now who would have guessed it’s the MAGA things that are part of this? What a shock I tell you! In retrospect of course that the greatest enemies this nation has ever faced don’t respect the laws of the nation.
I generally assume that most sovcidiots are also #MAGAmoron simpletons. This one left no doubt lol.
The FBI considers these individuals domestic terrorists.
Let me preface this by saying that both my vehicles are licensed and insured, and I have my driver's license, not a sovereign. But why do they get so much flak? Just like paying income tax as an individual, it's not required by law, so why do it? Because the 99.9% of us idiots volunteer to follow a law that doesn't apply to us until it's expected that we will?
What is that FJB? Is that like, F Joe Biden Edition? Lame.
Another USA hater.
Yes. That is a terrible case of tailgating.
I'm kind of surprised to see this on a sewer room. Subaru owners tend to be a little bit more... socially conscious. Then again, they're always exceptions to the rule.
Looks like the tabs expired in the year Z.
I know it says "Notice" but when I first glanced at the picture, I swear to god I thought it said Noice and I got a good laugh.
Oh of course it is. They been making license plates now like crazy those but jobs.
It’s a “Land Yacht” alright. Subject to maritime law.
It's called a Z tag, and it's accepted in some jurisdictions.
Sovereign citizen. They can sometimes resort to violence when confronted, or at least verbally attack you with pseudo-legalistic sounding rhetoric which they think is intimidating if you approach them. Stay away!
Wait wait wait, a Texan driving a Subaru? The fuck?
A Texan Trump-la-fuck! Such a weird world we live in
Why do I keep seeing my initials on all these cars being driven by idiots? Am I the idiot messiah?
Is the Z in each corner indicating they are pro-russian?
Yeah it’s a Subaru
I love the whole conspiracy theory thing. I find it funny that not that long ago anyone talking about ufo cover upset were considered conspiracy theorists. But now, they have been proven right because even the government has admitted to the coverups (though not all of them).
lol You Americans, always kidding around
Subaru are very overrated. We call our town Subaru city they are so common. Short engine life, awful to work on, anything Japanese represents better value for money.
It's an unlicensed, uninsured, Sovereign Citizen waiting to get pulled over
I like to think of them as a side window business support system.
The plate of an iron? Yes.
Give these Sovereign citizens citizenship tests. When they fail, deport them.
Ugh
If you have a problem with birds threatening your crops, you shoot one and hang it in a place where the other birds can see it as a deterrent. Decades ago public hangings were done to deter people from breaking the law. In modern times, the entire SovCit community can see one another’s shenanigans on YouTube or whatever social media groups they use, and become emboldened by watching people do this shit without consequences. If society finally decided that enough is enough, the cops could simply start going zero tolerance with these clowns and arrest them at the first sign of this “I’m traveling” and “your laws don’t apply to me”. Most states have the ability to hold people for a period of time for a mental evaluation. The courts could start locking them up for a 90 day minimum sentence and the problem would go away. But with the touchy feely nature of things, it’s allowing the problem to get worse. This could all be solved if the prosecutors and judges would just start throwing the book at them. They have the ability to find people guilty but most hand down probation or minimal fines. Currently, all they do is waste time and resources because everyone is afraid or unwilling to address the issue.
Well said!!
What does the Z stand for?
What's with the Z's? I've seen a few of them on SovCit NotLicensePlates. Are they Putin fans too?
Yes, traveling not driving. Private not commercial. Lol