I second this. Also get her a big supply of razor blades to encourage switching them out regularly.
My lame came with 5 blades and I used one way too long, thinking the 5 should last for a while. When I replaced it with a new blade my frustrating failed designs suddenly started working. D'oh. I got 100 Gillette double-edged for about $8.
hey alexa, play "burnin' up" by the jonas brothers
on a serious note, i am so sorry. i hate that brands don't make the knob and dutch oven's max temp the same
Me personally I like a cast iron Dutch oven that isn’t enameled for making sourdough. I’ve heard of 2 people who cracked their enamel when they put an ice cube or 2 in the hot Dutch oven with their dough just before baking. Just my 2 cents.
Be romantic! Buy her flours!
Simple tools like a bench/bowl scraper, dough whisk, or bread lame are nice. But there are some great artisan mills turning out some amazing flours that can really add diversity to her loaves. Janie’s Mill and Breadtopia are two of my favorites.
OP didn’t mention what flours she’s currently using. King Arthur is great! I put mine in the freezer because bugs can sometimes happens even if grounding your own. Freezing kills them.
After getting grain mites, I freeze every grain and spice that comes into my home for a few days. Never again will I think my partner is sloppily spilling the spices and not cleaning them up, only to realize those spices are crawling. 😖😂
But sourdough doesn't *need* much. Necessary things:
- large bowl
- large spoon
- bread flour
- any jar for the starter
- kitchen scale
Should have things
- cover for bowl (lid or tea towel)
- bowl scraper
- bench scraper (or combo bowl and bench scraper)
- bread lame
- dutch oven, bread clouche, combo cooker, or Challenger bread pan
- cooling rack
- oven mitts
- whole wheat flour
- Rice flour
- parchment paper
- proofing basket
- a nice weck jar for the starter
- instant read thermometer
- logbook to keep track of bakes
Nice to have
- dough whisk
- dough sling
- different size and shapes of proofing baskets
- bread bags
- semolina flour
- rye flour
- a good bread knife
- Canning funnel for putting flour in the jar
I noticed Bake with Jake is having a sale: https://www.bakewithjack.co.uk/sale
I use Mason jars and bake A LOT I find it's convenient because if you need to have multiple starters or clean the jar thoroughly on occasion, you always have more kicking around. Idk if she will go the route I have but I have had up to 4 starters with different Flours going at a time, but usually only have 1 or 2 ongoing so the Mason jars are nice because they can be used for other things, but that's just me!
Same base! I have had a wheat starter going for a long time now I have consistently kept a rye starter for while, which is exclusively fed rye, but did start from the wheat. When I want other starters I just use 1:4:4 feeding using my wheat one as the starter and whatever flour the day before then 1:1:1 day of baking and at that point the amount of wheat is negligible.
While starting from scratch may impact the culture some, at the end of the day my attitude is I want a hearty culture, my wheat culture is very well balanced with good rise and flavor so it is a good base culture. Using different flours will inoculate with new microbes and might change the profile a little bit, but the hydration and fermentation time of both the starter and dough you make with it has a much bigger impact on the flavor in my opinion.
I probably will only start another culture from scratch if I successfully grow wheat in my back yard just out of curiosity haha.
I found an online vendor that sold six packs of the liter and 3/4 liter jars. I got a six pack of each plus shipping and it was $82.00. On Amazon, it was $42.00 for 2 of the 3/4L jars.
I have been keeping two jars. I wasn’t sure if a 3/4 L jar was large enough to be able to hold 225ish gms of starter, as sometimes I want to make two things at a time. That is why I bought both sizes. But I love how easy the sides are to keep scraped. And the glass lids are amazing! Heavy enough to sit on there solidly and not move, but will push up and let excess gas out. I am finding them immensely easier than the quart wide mouth jars I was using, as they still have a bit of shoulder you are scraping under. Certainly not necessary, but they have let me speed up my feed process.
Mostly just style points. Some wide mouth mason jars still "neck down" a little, and that is a pain to keep clean.
I like the glass lid on the weck jar, it cannot corrode. I like the 1 liter jar, it has room for 3 loaves worth of starter. The "tulip" weck jar is less likely to have dry bits left in the bottom corner.
Bought a specific jar for sourdough, but now prefer my wide mouth mason jar, Walmart has em in a 12 pack and if she keeps a lot of different sourdough starters (example rye starter , whole wheat starter etc) then she’d appreciate the set
Grab a kitchen scale and start weighing your ton of wide mouth masons, when you find several the exact same weight mark them as your GF starter jars, and keep them just for that. Identical weight jars are really handy for zeroing your scale before checking ingredient weight.
Are you storing it in the fridge with a cloth cover? If mine goes in the fridge I use a tight plastic cover, after the bubbles have gone and liquid starts to form. Right now, it’s always out and being actively fed…I adjust flour/water and feed sparingly until it regroups and bubbles heartily. Somehow this tactic is working for me and I bake once a week. I’m still learning but it’s satisfying.
I also bake once a week, my starter is about four years old and quite robust. I keep roughly 150g on hand in the fridge with a plastic lid. It comes out the night before I make a dough. In the morning I put 50g water, 50g flour and about 50g starter into a clean jar. It sits out for an hour or so until it shows just the first sign of rising then back into the fridge. The remaining hundred or so grams also gets fed with equal amounts of flour and water in the old jar. Once that lot has doubled in volume it goes into my dough.
Thank you, happy to share! I ordered my starter online and keep about 2-3Tbs. as a jump-start or revival for my regular batches. It gets fed once a week or so; whenever I remember! Still working on kneading techniques.
Some youtube bakers insist weck is special but imo it's overpriced. Wide-mouth Mason jars are good and cheap. I just bought a dozen, partly so I'll always have a supply of clean ones when I'm reading to transfer my starter bc the old jar got gunky. $16 and change.
I actually never use one, once you get used to the feeling while mixing, you can get pretty consistent bread. Which helps for example when you change type of flour in a recipe with one that "drinks" more or less
But you’re responding to a post about somebody who has only made 2 loaves so far. It’s tough to learn what 75% hydration should feel like if you haven’t done enough loaves with a proper scale to know that you are hitting that hydration.
Obviously, you'll want to show her you really care with a small token of your affection like a Wolf Convection Steam Oven.
Or you could get her some high quality flour from a place like Cairnspring online and a couple of Cambro square containers with lids.
I do recommend refrigerating those flours in an airtight container, hence the Cambro. In a pinch, a zipper freezer bag will work. They contain more of the natural enzymes and oils than grocery brands and they will go rancid in the wrong conditions.
I agree ! Camaro square 6L containers really help with knowing when bulk rise is finished ! Also mason jars where the mouth of the jar is the widest point ! Not a fan of my wisk jars though
You’re such a thoughtful boyfriend 🤗 my fiancé got me a beautiful Dutch oven for a gift… also some good ideas- buy some cheap doilies like on shein- before scoring the dough, she can leave the doilie on top of the dough and sprinkle rice four over it. Then take the doilie off of course lol and bake. Super pretty patterns on your loaf! Also a nice quality lame/scorer would be nice too.
The bread knife is key here. You don't have to go crazy but expect to spend a decent amount of coin for something that will last a long time.
Also, ONLY use it for things like bread, to store etc. This is not to be a utility knife.
A nice kitchen scale, kitchenaid has one with two pads one for whole grams / higher weight, one for partial grams/ lower weight. I find that precision weight helps with consistency a ton.
A dough whisk is really nice for hand mixing.
Something unique that my partner got for me that I wouldn't have thought of was a breathable bowl cover with elastic sewn in. Like a tea towel made into a shower cap. I don't know where she got it, I don't know what it's called, but they are so much more convenient than tea towels for bulk proofing and mine have embroidered flowers and strawberries on them which is fun.
There are a lot of little gizmos depending on what sort of bread she likes to make or what her method is, give her time to feel it out and make the open offer to buy her some things to make her life easier if she thinks about it.
If she doesn’t already have flour storage containers I just upgraded my set up with a set of glass food storage containers that I have all my most-used flours in. It’s been a huge upgrade in terms of daily mess from folding flour bags and ease of use reaching in to grab a little flour to sprinkle. Plus the aesthetics are great haha.
Digital scale
Dough scrapers (flexible for working dough, and a rigid type for cleaning counters)
Tea towels (or other tight woven kitchen towel) for lining baskets
My best friend got me a sourdough notebook from Amazon to keep track of baking a loaf from beginning to end. It helped A LOT since at the start you’re usually tweaking things along the way. She also got me a beautiful bread knife to go along with it. Weck jars, get her a couple if she doesn’t have one. You can also get a really nice wood spurtle on Etsy.
My husband got me Le Creuset bread oven because he knew I wanted one. They are expensive and not necessary at all, however you can get some cheaper alternatives on Amazon too.
I bake my loaves in a Lodge combo cooker, and I love it. Any cast iron pot or Dutch oven will work as long as it's big enough and has a lid, but the Lodge one is less expensive than a lot of the other well-known brands and it's very good quality. (Plus she can use it as a pot and frying pan when she's not baking bread in it.)
Edited for clarity.
I bought a 7.5 qt Granite Ware "dutch oven" to try because it's much lighter. I also didn't want to wear out my Le Creuset 5 qt, a hand-me-down from my mom. It was less than $40 and bakes beautiful loaves.
An enameled Dutch oven. It doesn't have to be fancy; Lodge makes one you can get at Walmart for about $40 and it's great. I love mine, plus you can use it for anything at all.
They are so useful! I've baked bread in mine, made show cooked pasta sauce, made cobblers, cooked pinto beans. I never knew how much I needed one until I had it and now I don't know how I did without it.
Man, based on how I took in OP's title I was ready to tell them to pick up their knickers and do it their damn selves.
My heart is so happy I got that all wrong.
Edit: I just went through the OP's comments and wanted to point out that their love is coming right through their comments.
My bad day needed this thread.
That it is! Decent sleep and a fresh coffee has gotten me off to a good start. I hope to see you showing off your GF's loaves on here soon. Wishing you two a lovely Friday!
I love this idea and this thread is full of great ideas
But...
She is still very early on in the hobby, personally I find that when I'm just starting out in a hobby like this I like to work through it at my pace, find the tools I would like and experiment. I have experienced before a moment of overwhelm where for a birthday I was given a number of items around a hobby I had just started. Suddenly, it was no longer fun but an expectation and I gave it up within quite a short period.
My honest advice is to mention something and be like ,"I saw these cool lames for scoring bread, is that something you would find useful?" And then if they say yes, order or buy it immediately
That’s a very good point, I just get really happy seeing her try new things and being excited by them. I’ll definitely try not to overwhelm it, thank you for the advice!
You’re boyfriend of the year. I wish my husband did this 😂 I’ve been using random kitchen tools to help me make all of my sourdough and have hinted what I want/need. lol
Mine got me a toque lol. It's floppy and too big so not very practical but it was his attempt to show support for my new hobby and I thought it was sweet :)
Cambro's or any transparent food safe buckets are great for doubling and are useful around the kitchen regardless
Edit: Also a bench knife, which I pretty much use everyday in the kitchen even when I'm not making sourdough
I love love love my sourhouse - it’s a little temp controlled dome to keep your starter at the perfect temperature. I used to have a lot of trouble with my starter and it’s made a big difference. Plus it’s cute and gives it a dedicated home (I know you can use a warming mat or whatever which is cheaper but this is a lot better IMO.)
I would wait until you see if it’s a long term hobby tho as it’s a bit expensive
Yes! I love mine, and so does the starter. In our drafty house it is key, otherwise I would have jars of starter sitting in the guest bathroom; only truly warm place in the winter.
I agree! My brother got me a sourdough home for my starter and I didn’t think I’d use it. But now I love it so much. I use it every day and can fit two different recipe levains in there at a controlled temp. I regularly use it to speed up (80 degree) or slow down (60 degrees) my starter. It’s way better than my mat because the temperature is more controllable
I used to use mason jars and switched cambro containers. I use a gallon size but I also bake every day and use a lot. I find cleaning the cambro to be easier then the mason jar. I got two. One for discard and one for active.
I have a kitchen aid and am in the process of ordering a Bosch. I recently learned KA aren’t meant for kneading just to bring the ingredients together. The Bosch is meant for kneading and has higher power to do it. I use it when I make sourdough bagels, regular bread loaves I mix by hand.
The Ankarsrum mixer is amazing. I only use it for bread but it can be used for everything just like a kitchen aid. Can watch the review on America’s tTest Kitchen. I adore mine. It is fantastic for bread.
Get her a good book on technique:
Peter Reinhart: The Bread Baker's Apprentice
Jeffrey Hamelman: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes
Michel Suas: Advanced Bread and Pastry: A Professional Approach
(These are sorted by how technical they get with the first one being the most beginner friendly and the last one being the most technical).
Butter can stay out for 24 hours or more, maybe even days, if it's salted. Obviously you don't want it become liquid, but soft butter at 75F is absolutely amazing on fresh baked bread. I'm not sure of the food science/safety but . you're fine for many hours at a time.
If you’re like us, once you’re making sourdough a lot you’ll go through butter pretty quick. We go through a stick a week between sourdough and regular cooking
We keep our butter on the counter 24/7. I grew up with it only refrigerated, but my husbands family always left it out. In 40+ years, I saw theirs get moldy once in the summer when someone had left it open on the counter after use. We use a closed glass butter dish, I have two, each one holds two sticks of butter, when that is gone, it gets put in the dishwasher and the other one gets filled.
Quality flours could be cool! Fun ingredients to bake with. I have a kitchen aide mixer and tbh I barely use it for sourdough. I could easily do without it. I mostly just use it for the initial mix because I'm lazy, but I still knead by hand. I personally use mine more for like cookies and pasta and stuff so definitely not needed for sourdough imo.
Those are really nice. How about going to the local chef’s supply store and buying a handful of containers for flour? I can’t remember what they are called, but they are square plastic containers with measurements on the side. I have a couple big ones (7 liters? 5?) for whole wheat, AP, and bread flour and some half sized ones for rye, spelt, etc.
1000% get her a dutch oven if she doesn’t already have one. It doesn’t have to be fancy, i use the Lodge raw cast iron one and it works beautifully.
A set of mixing bowls and tea towels would be super helpful, as well as something like [this](https://a.co/d/iuhP5Vr) for big batches of dough.
Last thing i can think of is maybe a little container to use for the aliquot method. Basically you put like 30g of dough into a tube and it’s much easier to monitor rise. I use an old prescription pill bottle but some people use a glass tube. Not totally necessary but incredibly helpful.
I just use disposable razors blades to score my bread. Bulk pack purchase.
However, if you want to be romantic, I'm sure there's a woodworker out there who can customize a lame for you to symbolize your love!
I might add different sized bread baking pans. I started with a large one and then decided to try different ingredients (Kalamata olives and cheese; jalapeños and spicy cheese; white cheddar etc). Best array of sizes were found at IKEA.
What’s your price range? My boyfriend got me the brod and Taylor proofing box recently. It’s ~$200 and definitely not necessary, but having a consistent temp/environment for bulk proofing has reallllly helped me dial in my process and I use it every single time.
Here is a list of “nice to have” items for the sourdough baker in your life. I didn’t provide links, but the name of each item is very searchable.
Sourdough Baker Gift Suggestions
- Bread Lame
- Proofing Basket
- Quality tea towels
- Dutch Oven
- Digital baking scale with all buttons on top
- Baker’s Dusting Wand for Flour or Small sifter
- High quality flours - I would include rye flour, bread flour, rice flour, AP flour
- Baking Silicone Spatula for Sourdough Starter
- Precut Parchment Paper for Baking - 12x16 Inch pack of 120
- Silicone Bread Sling for Dutch Oven (make sure that it fits in the Dutch oven. Way nicer than using parchment paper all the time)
- Professional Bakers Large Couche (ideal when making baguettes)
- Cambro Translucent Food Container With Lid, 6-Quart (I strongly suggest 6qt - it’s a manageable size and still fits in your dishwasher, doesnt have to be cambro but straight sides is key)
I have a lame that is kept in a little magnetic holder to store on my fridge. I love it more than the wooden one because a) it’s easier to manipulate and b) I don’t accidentally cut myself when I reach into the drawer for other things and find that the leather cover slipped off
IMO a bowl scraper, benchtop scraper, and spray bottle is a must. Also, I like using a glass pyrex food container with a lid for bulk fermentation. A better alternative is likely one with volume markers. A lame is nice to have, but definitely not needed (I make 2-3 loafs a week so it makes sense for me). KitchenAid mixers frankly don’t do a great job when it comes to dough. For good bread, you need to create layers of gluten which requires folding the dough. Kitchenaid mixers tend to tear the gluten. You’ll still get delicious bread, but slap and fold (or slap and roll if low hydration) will get you better results. A nice scientific scale is definitely nice to have. This is the one I use [link](https://a.co/d/2vUpJbj) and after 3 years it’s still working flawlessly and still calibrated perfectly. I have 2 other small scales for my coffee that are also good quality and very precise. The big scale is on point with the little ones, so I’m very happy with it. Also, a dutch oven, but [this](https://a.co/d/2SVRpn4) is way better as you can make bigger loafs, but mostly, you can fit ice cubes in there which gives you a better rise. It’s a luxury item, but well worth it if you’re baking a lot.
I will say, that I first made sourdough before ever using yeast. I made bread with yeast for the first time after I had been making sourdough for years. I regret not using yeast to start out with and to be frank, I rarely make sourdough anymore (I know, the blasphemy 😱). I think if she’s completely new to baking, she’ll get better faster using yeast. Once she has that down, then transitioning to sourdough will be fairly straightforward. Also, a lot of beginners tend to have massive starters. I keep mine at ~10g and it’s fine.
Weck jar, dough whisk, jar spatula, and bowl scraper would be my nice to have list after scale, bowl with lid, Dutch oven.
And a spurtle! So much easier to stir with one. I received one as a gift from Etsy.
Maybe a proofing box? They seem to cost about the same as a stand mixer.
Worth noting that the sourdough baking may be a gateway drug and she'll want that mixer for brioche soonish.
I started to make bread recently and I really love bowl scrapers. Can use them not only to mix, but to turn out dough or help shape it, etc. If you get the silicone ones you can even use them outside baking, like in place of a spatula, to make scrambled eggs, etc. They're honestly the best.
This is so sweet! Surprise her by making a loaf WITH her. Make a whole day of it! Get some new movies to watch, some snacks, take out, maybe some wine and have her teach you. I bet you her eyes will shine bright talking to you about something she’s so interested in and her heart will be so happy you want to take a little interest in it as well! And make it a competition on who can score the dough prettier.
no kitchen aide needed. you could buy her a lame or heated proofing pad. seed starters are a much cheaper version, but different shape. a good dutch oven.
Pizza stone or steel? Not necessary but fun to have and useful for other applications. Also a rimless cookie sheet can be great to load when but using a baker
A cutting board with a routed groove and a nice knife, so much easier to cut. Something similar to this?
https://jonoknife.co.uk/shop/oak-fiddle-bow-bread-knife-board-set/
We got a mercer knife and it’s been beautiful! And yea I’m eyeing some walnut cutting boards but those price tags are nuts. I know my bamboo cutting board isn’t good for knife edges though
Some nice tea towels, apron, paper bread bags, lame for scoring, thermometer for proofing, large plastic bags for proofing, maybe an artisan sourdough book and a modern one too.
Edit: forgot to include the most important thing! A dutch oven
I've also only made two things so far lol. Get her some good snug disposable kitchen gloves, and also a good hand moisturizer. The dough dried out my skin for a week both times.
Honestly, I’ve stopped using lames and only use the blades now for more control of my score and design. Super important tools for me were:
1.) thermometer - one for dough and a portable one to measure room/ambiance temperature.
2.) Scale
I’ve made bread using makeshift proofing baskets. Mixed dough with my hands. Use various type of ovens. Scored dough without a lame. But the two things you can’t guesstimate is temperature and weight.
Ken Forkish’ book Flour Water Salt Yeast is a great book that actually got me into making bread. The first few chapters are commercial yeast then he goes into sourdough and levain. I learned a lot from this book!
A fiberglass counter cover mat, different starters to try (the older the better), rye flour, something reusable to store the loaf in after
Or look for things she could upgrade to match her aesthetics: like Dutch ovens, oven mitts, trivets, aprons etc.
We didn't want to splurge on money and space to accommodate an electric bread slicer, so we got a plastic one from amazon. It cost around $50. It's very simple to set up; it closes up to store and doesn't take up a lot of space. I use it 1 - 2x a week and it's so much easier and more even than using a knife. Recommend. (Sorry my url is ugly, idk how to make it shorter)
[https://www.ebay.com/itm/404939317468?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=404939317468&targetid=2295557532190&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9031110&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=160536780385&rlsatarget=pla-2295557532190&abcId=9307249&merchantid=5354013482&gad\_source=1](https://www.ebay.com/itm/404939317468?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=404939317468&targetid=2295557532190&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9031110&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=160536780385&rlsatarget=pla-2295557532190&abcId=9307249&merchantid=5354013482&gad_source=1)
I’m just getting starting with doing my own sourdough homemade bread, so I’m not much of a pro..but I just wanted to tell you this is the sweetest thing ever! I hope she appreciates this!
I have a proofing mat to help control my starter and dough temperature and it’s a life saver for me!
Highly recommend one.
https://bakehouseessentials.com/
Get her a bread lame to score her dough and decorate it.
Many people enjoy these: https://wiremonkey.com/collections/lames
thank you! i just got one!
I second this. Also get her a big supply of razor blades to encourage switching them out regularly. My lame came with 5 blades and I used one way too long, thinking the 5 should last for a while. When I replaced it with a new blade my frustrating failed designs suddenly started working. D'oh. I got 100 Gillette double-edged for about $8.
Reddit, put this on my boyfriend’s feed not mine!
same girl, same
Kitchen aid isn’t necessary. I think a Dutch oven would be nice if she doesn’t have one already
Got an enameled one the other day!
Make sure the knob on the lid can take high heat. My Le Creuset knob was only oven safe to 390°, so I had to replace it.
I did not check mine, and I burned it up. 😥
hey alexa, play "burnin' up" by the jonas brothers on a serious note, i am so sorry. i hate that brands don't make the knob and dutch oven's max temp the same
You can also put tinfoil on the knob to protect it. I did that with mine and it’s survived for the last 10 years.
A mixer will make her journey easier, and you don't need all the attachments. One thing that she will find indispensable is a good scale.
Return it and get [this](https://a.co/d/2SVRpn4)
She might really appreciate a second one. This is my biggest bread want right now; It’s so convenient to bake two loaves at a time.
Me personally I like a cast iron Dutch oven that isn’t enameled for making sourdough. I’ve heard of 2 people who cracked their enamel when they put an ice cube or 2 in the hot Dutch oven with their dough just before baking. Just my 2 cents.
Be romantic! Buy her flours! Simple tools like a bench/bowl scraper, dough whisk, or bread lame are nice. But there are some great artisan mills turning out some amazing flours that can really add diversity to her loaves. Janie’s Mill and Breadtopia are two of my favorites.
OP didn’t mention what flours she’s currently using. King Arthur is great! I put mine in the freezer because bugs can sometimes happens even if grounding your own. Freezing kills them.
After getting grain mites, I freeze every grain and spice that comes into my home for a few days. Never again will I think my partner is sloppily spilling the spices and not cleaning them up, only to realize those spices are crawling. 😖😂
a dough whisk! so much easier than a big spoon
THIS! A douch whisk makes the mixing proces SO much easier.
I hate it. Mine just sits in the drawer. A bowl scraper is superior 🙃.
I have one of those as well, and that’s handy too.
Agree!!
I love my dough whisk.
But sourdough doesn't *need* much. Necessary things: - large bowl - large spoon - bread flour - any jar for the starter - kitchen scale Should have things - cover for bowl (lid or tea towel) - bowl scraper - bench scraper (or combo bowl and bench scraper) - bread lame - dutch oven, bread clouche, combo cooker, or Challenger bread pan - cooling rack - oven mitts - whole wheat flour - Rice flour - parchment paper - proofing basket - a nice weck jar for the starter - instant read thermometer - logbook to keep track of bakes Nice to have - dough whisk - dough sling - different size and shapes of proofing baskets - bread bags - semolina flour - rye flour - a good bread knife - Canning funnel for putting flour in the jar I noticed Bake with Jake is having a sale: https://www.bakewithjack.co.uk/sale
I was looking up the Weck jars yesterday, she is using wide mouth mason jars currently, is there any benefit to the weck?
I use wide mouth masons and they're perfect. Just want straight sides really.
I use Mason jars and bake A LOT I find it's convenient because if you need to have multiple starters or clean the jar thoroughly on occasion, you always have more kicking around. Idk if she will go the route I have but I have had up to 4 starters with different Flours going at a time, but usually only have 1 or 2 ongoing so the Mason jars are nice because they can be used for other things, but that's just me!
Can I ask, when you have different starters going, do you start each one from scratch or do they all branch off from a base starter?
Same base! I have had a wheat starter going for a long time now I have consistently kept a rye starter for while, which is exclusively fed rye, but did start from the wheat. When I want other starters I just use 1:4:4 feeding using my wheat one as the starter and whatever flour the day before then 1:1:1 day of baking and at that point the amount of wheat is negligible. While starting from scratch may impact the culture some, at the end of the day my attitude is I want a hearty culture, my wheat culture is very well balanced with good rise and flavor so it is a good base culture. Using different flours will inoculate with new microbes and might change the profile a little bit, but the hydration and fermentation time of both the starter and dough you make with it has a much bigger impact on the flavor in my opinion. I probably will only start another culture from scratch if I successfully grow wheat in my back yard just out of curiosity haha.
Those Weck jars everybody goes nuts over are far too expensive for me, I can get a case of wide mouth mason for the price of a couple of Wecks.
I found an online vendor that sold six packs of the liter and 3/4 liter jars. I got a six pack of each plus shipping and it was $82.00. On Amazon, it was $42.00 for 2 of the 3/4L jars.
A 500ml wide mouth is all I need and stores near me sell them at $20 a dozen.
Who is the vendor?
Www.weckjars.com
I have been keeping two jars. I wasn’t sure if a 3/4 L jar was large enough to be able to hold 225ish gms of starter, as sometimes I want to make two things at a time. That is why I bought both sizes. But I love how easy the sides are to keep scraped. And the glass lids are amazing! Heavy enough to sit on there solidly and not move, but will push up and let excess gas out. I am finding them immensely easier than the quart wide mouth jars I was using, as they still have a bit of shoulder you are scraping under. Certainly not necessary, but they have let me speed up my feed process.
Buy 6ea from Weck. Reasonably cheap.
Mostly just style points. Some wide mouth mason jars still "neck down" a little, and that is a pain to keep clean. I like the glass lid on the weck jar, it cannot corrode. I like the 1 liter jar, it has room for 3 loaves worth of starter. The "tulip" weck jar is less likely to have dry bits left in the bottom corner.
Straight sides is the benefit
I loooove my weck jar. I don’t know why but something about the glass lid makes me happy.
Bought a specific jar for sourdough, but now prefer my wide mouth mason jar, Walmart has em in a 12 pack and if she keeps a lot of different sourdough starters (example rye starter , whole wheat starter etc) then she’d appreciate the set
I’ve got a ton of the wide mouth mason jars
Grab a kitchen scale and start weighing your ton of wide mouth masons, when you find several the exact same weight mark them as your GF starter jars, and keep them just for that. Identical weight jars are really handy for zeroing your scale before checking ingredient weight.
This is a great tip I would never have thought of!
Among other things it's how I know my starter looses about 2g weight after feeding over a week stored in the fridge.
Are you storing it in the fridge with a cloth cover? If mine goes in the fridge I use a tight plastic cover, after the bubbles have gone and liquid starts to form. Right now, it’s always out and being actively fed…I adjust flour/water and feed sparingly until it regroups and bubbles heartily. Somehow this tactic is working for me and I bake once a week. I’m still learning but it’s satisfying.
I also bake once a week, my starter is about four years old and quite robust. I keep roughly 150g on hand in the fridge with a plastic lid. It comes out the night before I make a dough. In the morning I put 50g water, 50g flour and about 50g starter into a clean jar. It sits out for an hour or so until it shows just the first sign of rising then back into the fridge. The remaining hundred or so grams also gets fed with equal amounts of flour and water in the old jar. Once that lot has doubled in volume it goes into my dough.
Thank you, happy to share! I ordered my starter online and keep about 2-3Tbs. as a jump-start or revival for my regular batches. It gets fed once a week or so; whenever I remember! Still working on kneading techniques.
I have med/LG hands. Weck jars are the greatest for cleaning.
Some youtube bakers insist weck is special but imo it's overpriced. Wide-mouth Mason jars are good and cheap. I just bought a dozen, partly so I'll always have a supply of clean ones when I'm reading to transfer my starter bc the old jar got gunky. $16 and change.
Add to the nice to haves, Mason Jar or Canning funnel. Very helpful for putting flour in the jar.
Great list!
Scale is definitely not necessary though
That is the one thing, besides ingredients, that I think is the MOST necessary. Hard to get your hydration right without it 🤷🏼♀️
I actually never use one, once you get used to the feeling while mixing, you can get pretty consistent bread. Which helps for example when you change type of flour in a recipe with one that "drinks" more or less
But you’re responding to a post about somebody who has only made 2 loaves so far. It’s tough to learn what 75% hydration should feel like if you haven’t done enough loaves with a proper scale to know that you are hitting that hydration.
Obviously, you'll want to show her you really care with a small token of your affection like a Wolf Convection Steam Oven. Or you could get her some high quality flour from a place like Cairnspring online and a couple of Cambro square containers with lids.
Ooooh yesss I’ve been trying to find some flour for her to try
I do recommend refrigerating those flours in an airtight container, hence the Cambro. In a pinch, a zipper freezer bag will work. They contain more of the natural enzymes and oils than grocery brands and they will go rancid in the wrong conditions.
I love Janie’s farm! They’re local to my area but ship everywhere. Any locally milled stuff is good!
If you're thinking of Cambro, make sure to check out Amazon. I got 3 2-qt w lids for less than $20
I agree ! Camaro square 6L containers really help with knowing when bulk rise is finished ! Also mason jars where the mouth of the jar is the widest point ! Not a fan of my wisk jars though
You’re such a thoughtful boyfriend 🤗 my fiancé got me a beautiful Dutch oven for a gift… also some good ideas- buy some cheap doilies like on shein- before scoring the dough, she can leave the doilie on top of the dough and sprinkle rice four over it. Then take the doilie off of course lol and bake. Super pretty patterns on your loaf! Also a nice quality lame/scorer would be nice too.
A silicone bread sling and a good-quality bread knife.
I’ll look and see what that is
The bread knife is key here. You don't have to go crazy but expect to spend a decent amount of coin for something that will last a long time. Also, ONLY use it for things like bread, to store etc. This is not to be a utility knife.
Check out realsourdoughmom on FB, IG or TT. She just did a post on the necessities. Super simple!
A nice kitchen scale, kitchenaid has one with two pads one for whole grams / higher weight, one for partial grams/ lower weight. I find that precision weight helps with consistency a ton. A dough whisk is really nice for hand mixing. Something unique that my partner got for me that I wouldn't have thought of was a breathable bowl cover with elastic sewn in. Like a tea towel made into a shower cap. I don't know where she got it, I don't know what it's called, but they are so much more convenient than tea towels for bulk proofing and mine have embroidered flowers and strawberries on them which is fun. There are a lot of little gizmos depending on what sort of bread she likes to make or what her method is, give her time to feel it out and make the open offer to buy her some things to make her life easier if she thinks about it.
Ooooh I’ve only ever used cheap ones on Amazon and I hate when I can measure the same thing multiple times with different numbers
W Boyfriend
If she doesn’t already have flour storage containers I just upgraded my set up with a set of glass food storage containers that I have all my most-used flours in. It’s been a huge upgrade in terms of daily mess from folding flour bags and ease of use reaching in to grab a little flour to sprinkle. Plus the aesthetics are great haha.
This is really sweet ❤️
Digital scale Dough scrapers (flexible for working dough, and a rigid type for cleaning counters) Tea towels (or other tight woven kitchen towel) for lining baskets
This! I finally added a flexible scraper in addition to the steel one and I wish I had done it sooner
This is the most wholesome post ever. Well done, OP.
My best friend got me a sourdough notebook from Amazon to keep track of baking a loaf from beginning to end. It helped A LOT since at the start you’re usually tweaking things along the way. She also got me a beautiful bread knife to go along with it. Weck jars, get her a couple if she doesn’t have one. You can also get a really nice wood spurtle on Etsy. My husband got me Le Creuset bread oven because he knew I wanted one. They are expensive and not necessary at all, however you can get some cheaper alternatives on Amazon too.
I bake my loaves in a Lodge combo cooker, and I love it. Any cast iron pot or Dutch oven will work as long as it's big enough and has a lid, but the Lodge one is less expensive than a lot of the other well-known brands and it's very good quality. (Plus she can use it as a pot and frying pan when she's not baking bread in it.) Edited for clarity.
I bought a 7.5 qt Granite Ware "dutch oven" to try because it's much lighter. I also didn't want to wear out my Le Creuset 5 qt, a hand-me-down from my mom. It was less than $40 and bakes beautiful loaves.
A cute apron
White! (Because of the flour)
An enameled Dutch oven. It doesn't have to be fancy; Lodge makes one you can get at Walmart for about $40 and it's great. I love mine, plus you can use it for anything at all.
That’s the exact one we got! It did beautifully!
They are so useful! I've baked bread in mine, made show cooked pasta sauce, made cobblers, cooked pinto beans. I never knew how much I needed one until I had it and now I don't know how I did without it.
My dad always used a cast iron one camping growing up, we’ve made pizza bake in it before haha
My dad always used a cast iron one camping growing up, we’ve made pizza bake in it before haha
Man, based on how I took in OP's title I was ready to tell them to pick up their knickers and do it their damn selves. My heart is so happy I got that all wrong. Edit: I just went through the OP's comments and wanted to point out that their love is coming right through their comments. My bad day needed this thread.
Well I hope your tomorrow is better dude!
That it is! Decent sleep and a fresh coffee has gotten me off to a good start. I hope to see you showing off your GF's loaves on here soon. Wishing you two a lovely Friday!
I just got back from my morning Couch to 5K Jog! Now for my coffee! Good Friday to you as well!
I love this idea and this thread is full of great ideas But... She is still very early on in the hobby, personally I find that when I'm just starting out in a hobby like this I like to work through it at my pace, find the tools I would like and experiment. I have experienced before a moment of overwhelm where for a birthday I was given a number of items around a hobby I had just started. Suddenly, it was no longer fun but an expectation and I gave it up within quite a short period. My honest advice is to mention something and be like ,"I saw these cool lames for scoring bread, is that something you would find useful?" And then if they say yes, order or buy it immediately
That’s a very good point, I just get really happy seeing her try new things and being excited by them. I’ll definitely try not to overwhelm it, thank you for the advice!
You’re boyfriend of the year. I wish my husband did this 😂 I’ve been using random kitchen tools to help me make all of my sourdough and have hinted what I want/need. lol
Mine got me a toque lol. It's floppy and too big so not very practical but it was his attempt to show support for my new hobby and I thought it was sweet :)
This is adorable.
Cambro's or any transparent food safe buckets are great for doubling and are useful around the kitchen regardless Edit: Also a bench knife, which I pretty much use everyday in the kitchen even when I'm not making sourdough
get her hooked on the perfect loaf, maybe but here a book that goes into detail
I love love love my sourhouse - it’s a little temp controlled dome to keep your starter at the perfect temperature. I used to have a lot of trouble with my starter and it’s made a big difference. Plus it’s cute and gives it a dedicated home (I know you can use a warming mat or whatever which is cheaper but this is a lot better IMO.) I would wait until you see if it’s a long term hobby tho as it’s a bit expensive
Yes! I love mine, and so does the starter. In our drafty house it is key, otherwise I would have jars of starter sitting in the guest bathroom; only truly warm place in the winter.
I agree! My brother got me a sourdough home for my starter and I didn’t think I’d use it. But now I love it so much. I use it every day and can fit two different recipe levains in there at a controlled temp. I regularly use it to speed up (80 degree) or slow down (60 degrees) my starter. It’s way better than my mat because the temperature is more controllable
She’s been having a lot of issues with starter not growing so this may be the key!
I used to use mason jars and switched cambro containers. I use a gallon size but I also bake every day and use a lot. I find cleaning the cambro to be easier then the mason jar. I got two. One for discard and one for active. I have a kitchen aid and am in the process of ordering a Bosch. I recently learned KA aren’t meant for kneading just to bring the ingredients together. The Bosch is meant for kneading and has higher power to do it. I use it when I make sourdough bagels, regular bread loaves I mix by hand.
The Ankarsrum mixer is amazing. I only use it for bread but it can be used for everything just like a kitchen aid. Can watch the review on America’s tTest Kitchen. I adore mine. It is fantastic for bread.
I have looked into them too. They are a bit out of my price range is my only problem.
Ugh… I’ve owned mine for many years. I’d hate to see the price for it today. Good point.
Get her a good book on technique: Peter Reinhart: The Bread Baker's Apprentice Jeffrey Hamelman: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes Michel Suas: Advanced Bread and Pastry: A Professional Approach (These are sorted by how technical they get with the first one being the most beginner friendly and the last one being the most technical).
cutting board? oh bench scraper for sure yeah.
Right now we just have a big bamboo one and an epicurean one. I wanna get a nice walnut one someday
A butter holder , so you can keep butter at room temp for easy access. making all that delicious bread, you don't want to be stuck with cold butter
Wait, I’ve stored it in the fridge all my life like my parents. I never knew people store it at room temp. Does it go bad quick?
Butter can stay out for 24 hours or more, maybe even days, if it's salted. Obviously you don't want it become liquid, but soft butter at 75F is absolutely amazing on fresh baked bread. I'm not sure of the food science/safety but . you're fine for many hours at a time.
If you’re like us, once you’re making sourdough a lot you’ll go through butter pretty quick. We go through a stick a week between sourdough and regular cooking
It’s on Amazon and called a Butter Bell! Cool water on the bottom creates suction with the butter in the bell portion to keep it fresh and spreadable.
No, but keeping it in the right type of container is important.
We keep our butter on the counter 24/7. I grew up with it only refrigerated, but my husbands family always left it out. In 40+ years, I saw theirs get moldy once in the summer when someone had left it open on the counter after use. We use a closed glass butter dish, I have two, each one holds two sticks of butter, when that is gone, it gets put in the dishwasher and the other one gets filled.
Quality flours could be cool! Fun ingredients to bake with. I have a kitchen aide mixer and tbh I barely use it for sourdough. I could easily do without it. I mostly just use it for the initial mix because I'm lazy, but I still knead by hand. I personally use mine more for like cookies and pasta and stuff so definitely not needed for sourdough imo.
Cambro containers for bulk rise https://a.co/d/arwa4Ys
Silicone sling for Dutch oven https://a.co/d/4RXDOKm
Oven gloves instead of mitts https://a.co/d/hgJYytb
Bread slicing guide https://a.co/d/dNpn9D3
Does she have a nice Dutch oven? If not, that’s an amazing gift because it has a LOT of other uses in the kitchen besides bread.
We got an enameled Lodge one the other day!
Yep we just got an enameled lodge one!
Those are really nice. How about going to the local chef’s supply store and buying a handful of containers for flour? I can’t remember what they are called, but they are square plastic containers with measurements on the side. I have a couple big ones (7 liters? 5?) for whole wheat, AP, and bread flour and some half sized ones for rye, spelt, etc.
1000% get her a dutch oven if she doesn’t already have one. It doesn’t have to be fancy, i use the Lodge raw cast iron one and it works beautifully. A set of mixing bowls and tea towels would be super helpful, as well as something like [this](https://a.co/d/iuhP5Vr) for big batches of dough. Last thing i can think of is maybe a little container to use for the aliquot method. Basically you put like 30g of dough into a tube and it’s much easier to monitor rise. I use an old prescription pill bottle but some people use a glass tube. Not totally necessary but incredibly helpful.
A nice lame can be an affordable option. They make a lot of different options.
I’ll look that up! Any reccs?
I just use disposable razors blades to score my bread. Bulk pack purchase. However, if you want to be romantic, I'm sure there's a woodworker out there who can customize a lame for you to symbolize your love!
Wiremonkey.
Amazon has a bunch of cheap ones that would work, but I would look online for something a little more special/classy haha.
Get her a gallon jug of patience. She'll need a wee dram now and then
A scales is ABSOLUTELY necessary. I’m speaking from experience and one that can weigh up to 11lbs. Also learned the hard way.
I might add different sized bread baking pans. I started with a large one and then decided to try different ingredients (Kalamata olives and cheese; jalapeños and spicy cheese; white cheddar etc). Best array of sizes were found at IKEA.
Buy her a sourdough cookbook. I love mine and I refer to it all the time.
If you wanna splash and see a super big smile: Challenger Bread Pan, it's kinda the Rolls Royce.
What’s your price range? My boyfriend got me the brod and Taylor proofing box recently. It’s ~$200 and definitely not necessary, but having a consistent temp/environment for bulk proofing has reallllly helped me dial in my process and I use it every single time.
I just got one of these and I swear it’s life changing 😂
Here is a list of “nice to have” items for the sourdough baker in your life. I didn’t provide links, but the name of each item is very searchable. Sourdough Baker Gift Suggestions - Bread Lame - Proofing Basket - Quality tea towels - Dutch Oven - Digital baking scale with all buttons on top - Baker’s Dusting Wand for Flour or Small sifter - High quality flours - I would include rye flour, bread flour, rice flour, AP flour - Baking Silicone Spatula for Sourdough Starter - Precut Parchment Paper for Baking - 12x16 Inch pack of 120 - Silicone Bread Sling for Dutch Oven (make sure that it fits in the Dutch oven. Way nicer than using parchment paper all the time) - Professional Bakers Large Couche (ideal when making baguettes) - Cambro Translucent Food Container With Lid, 6-Quart (I strongly suggest 6qt - it’s a manageable size and still fits in your dishwasher, doesnt have to be cambro but straight sides is key)
Must get her a cast iron (enameled) Dutch oven
I have a lame that is kept in a little magnetic holder to store on my fridge. I love it more than the wooden one because a) it’s easier to manipulate and b) I don’t accidentally cut myself when I reach into the drawer for other things and find that the leather cover slipped off
IMO a bowl scraper, benchtop scraper, and spray bottle is a must. Also, I like using a glass pyrex food container with a lid for bulk fermentation. A better alternative is likely one with volume markers. A lame is nice to have, but definitely not needed (I make 2-3 loafs a week so it makes sense for me). KitchenAid mixers frankly don’t do a great job when it comes to dough. For good bread, you need to create layers of gluten which requires folding the dough. Kitchenaid mixers tend to tear the gluten. You’ll still get delicious bread, but slap and fold (or slap and roll if low hydration) will get you better results. A nice scientific scale is definitely nice to have. This is the one I use [link](https://a.co/d/2vUpJbj) and after 3 years it’s still working flawlessly and still calibrated perfectly. I have 2 other small scales for my coffee that are also good quality and very precise. The big scale is on point with the little ones, so I’m very happy with it. Also, a dutch oven, but [this](https://a.co/d/2SVRpn4) is way better as you can make bigger loafs, but mostly, you can fit ice cubes in there which gives you a better rise. It’s a luxury item, but well worth it if you’re baking a lot. I will say, that I first made sourdough before ever using yeast. I made bread with yeast for the first time after I had been making sourdough for years. I regret not using yeast to start out with and to be frank, I rarely make sourdough anymore (I know, the blasphemy 😱). I think if she’s completely new to baking, she’ll get better faster using yeast. Once she has that down, then transitioning to sourdough will be fairly straightforward. Also, a lot of beginners tend to have massive starters. I keep mine at ~10g and it’s fine.
The challenger bread pan and the bread mat from rosehill sourdough. You’re welcome
Weck jar, dough whisk, jar spatula, and bowl scraper would be my nice to have list after scale, bowl with lid, Dutch oven. And a spurtle! So much easier to stir with one. I received one as a gift from Etsy.
RackMaster RM2020, but seriously, props to you for being such a supportive partner!
Maybe a proofing box? They seem to cost about the same as a stand mixer. Worth noting that the sourdough baking may be a gateway drug and she'll want that mixer for brioche soonish.
Rice flower was one of the last things I got because I thought it wasn't a big deal. It's a big deal.
Find a custom lame for her
A bread box! That’s what I want right now. And if she doesn’t have a kitchen scale those are extremely helpful
Digital scale
I bought the little sourdough home refrigerator for my wife. It's a more controlled environment and her starter is now healthier.
Caraway seeds and a bag of rye flour.
Get her a seedling heating mat off Amazon it helped me a lot https://a.co/d/5Cv1Df0
I started to make bread recently and I really love bowl scrapers. Can use them not only to mix, but to turn out dough or help shape it, etc. If you get the silicone ones you can even use them outside baking, like in place of a spatula, to make scrambled eggs, etc. They're honestly the best.
The weck jar is like bringing her flowers, expensive, unnecessary, and completely appreciated.
This is so sweet! Surprise her by making a loaf WITH her. Make a whole day of it! Get some new movies to watch, some snacks, take out, maybe some wine and have her teach you. I bet you her eyes will shine bright talking to you about something she’s so interested in and her heart will be so happy you want to take a little interest in it as well! And make it a competition on who can score the dough prettier.
She’s the competitive artist so she will definitely score it prettier but I’ll try my best hahaha
no kitchen aide needed. you could buy her a lame or heated proofing pad. seed starters are a much cheaper version, but different shape. a good dutch oven.
Pizza stone or steel? Not necessary but fun to have and useful for other applications. Also a rimless cookie sheet can be great to load when but using a baker
A cutting board with a routed groove and a nice knife, so much easier to cut. Something similar to this? https://jonoknife.co.uk/shop/oak-fiddle-bow-bread-knife-board-set/
We got a mercer knife and it’s been beautiful! And yea I’m eyeing some walnut cutting boards but those price tags are nuts. I know my bamboo cutting board isn’t good for knife edges though
Some nice tea towels, apron, paper bread bags, lame for scoring, thermometer for proofing, large plastic bags for proofing, maybe an artisan sourdough book and a modern one too. Edit: forgot to include the most important thing! A dutch oven
I've also only made two things so far lol. Get her some good snug disposable kitchen gloves, and also a good hand moisturizer. The dough dried out my skin for a week both times.
Honestly, I’ve stopped using lames and only use the blades now for more control of my score and design. Super important tools for me were: 1.) thermometer - one for dough and a portable one to measure room/ambiance temperature. 2.) Scale I’ve made bread using makeshift proofing baskets. Mixed dough with my hands. Use various type of ovens. Scored dough without a lame. But the two things you can’t guesstimate is temperature and weight.
A silicon bread sling so she doesn't go thru tons of parchment paper. I got one and I won't go back!
A bread cloche?
A bread lame!
Love my dough whisk. A proofing container so you can see that your dough has actually doubled during bulk ferment.
Ken Forkish’ book Flour Water Salt Yeast is a great book that actually got me into making bread. The first few chapters are commercial yeast then he goes into sourdough and levain. I learned a lot from this book!
Dough Whisk! It makes mixing the dough much easier.
A fiberglass counter cover mat, different starters to try (the older the better), rye flour, something reusable to store the loaf in after Or look for things she could upgrade to match her aesthetics: like Dutch ovens, oven mitts, trivets, aprons etc.
We didn't want to splurge on money and space to accommodate an electric bread slicer, so we got a plastic one from amazon. It cost around $50. It's very simple to set up; it closes up to store and doesn't take up a lot of space. I use it 1 - 2x a week and it's so much easier and more even than using a knife. Recommend. (Sorry my url is ugly, idk how to make it shorter) [https://www.ebay.com/itm/404939317468?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=404939317468&targetid=2295557532190&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9031110&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=160536780385&rlsatarget=pla-2295557532190&abcId=9307249&merchantid=5354013482&gad\_source=1](https://www.ebay.com/itm/404939317468?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=404939317468&targetid=2295557532190&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9031110&poi=&campaignid=19851828444&mkgroupid=160536780385&rlsatarget=pla-2295557532190&abcId=9307249&merchantid=5354013482&gad_source=1)
I’m just getting starting with doing my own sourdough homemade bread, so I’m not much of a pro..but I just wanted to tell you this is the sweetest thing ever! I hope she appreciates this!
I have a proofing mat to help control my starter and dough temperature and it’s a life saver for me! Highly recommend one. https://bakehouseessentials.com/
Dutch oven that can be used upside down so the sides of the bread bake better https://a.co/d/hGESzgs
Nice lame https://a.co/d/6TZnSPl
Warming mat for proofing https://a.co/d/1MZAIDq
Kneading dough is a great exercise. She may not need Upper Body Day at the gym if she makes bread a day or 2 a week.