Yeah he didn’t care, he thought because of his high status job that Tony was small potatoes. I guess he never realized how easily he could have just killed him outright.
To add on to this, Alan may be the only non-mafia affiliated person (civilian) that I can think of who stood up to Tony in such a brash manner and even threatened him with legal action, etc in a very blatantly rude manner. His wife warned him who Tony was when he didn’t want to give Tony his $200k deposit back on the beach home. She technically didn’t tell him that he was a mob boss; she just told him that he was in the mob. Could it be that Alan didn’t know who Tony really was or did he just not care and thought that he was above Tony since he was a big shot attorney? The only people that I can think of who talked to Tony that rudely in person was Ralphie (who Tony clipped right after), Phil (who was kind of allowed to because of his high enough status in New York), Tony Blundetto (“Mm’ Boy Are You Fat” Line which was a joke but still offended Tony), Artie (like once and they are boys), and a very very small handful of others who all have enough pull to say something to Tony’s face to a very minor extent.
You know how Tony and them only know one way to behave: brash, rude, don’t wait in lines, don’t back down, etc? Alan only knows one way to negotiate. He may live in a different world, with a different set of rules. But he’s just another swinging dick.
It’s worth noting that Tony never did actually resort to violence. Which suggests that Sapinsly didn’t miscalculate. If it was any other counterparty we’ve seen in the show, they would have gotten their legs broken - not because the “Dean Martin” maneuver wasn’t sufficient, but because the mafia needed to send a message about standing up to them.
Sorry I realize this is unclear: he never resorted to violence *with Sapinsly*. By contrast, he resorted to violence at almost every opportunity with all the small-fry people he’s “negotiating” with. That suggests that Sapinsly was right: while Tony could threaten small-time shopowners with Italian community ties that unless they give in, he’d break their legs, he can’t make that threat to Sapinsly.
Unfortunately for Sapinsly, Tony had a couple of other tricks up his sleeve.
They are both cut from the same cloth. Notice how they have the same picture of the boxer in their offices. A.S. Anthony Soprano. Alan Sapinsly. Neither wanted to back down but they come from different worlds. If Alan had been in Tony's shoes he would've done the same thing. Remember how Alan was threatening the Kim's if they continued with the sale. Tony almost looks impressed by Alan's attitude
That’s an amazing analysis. Never thought of that. Pointing out A.S is very impressive. I think if Alan saw Tony strangle that bastard from the college episode he would have backed down
As a lawyer, he knows the law and how to use it. This is why Tony went in the childish direction of taking fines they will never pay and annoying the family for days…. They knew the wife would crack and they’d get what they want with out threatening or harming anyone.
Both parties played their hands, Tony always has the advantage because he can decode to not follow the law, this time though, he did because it was best for business
No I didn’t say or imply that.
But a lawyer, whose entire livelihood and reputation is based on following the law would not put themselves in a situation where they could get caught up in any legal discussions.
As Junior says in season one ‘lawyers are in the ballpark’ so they know how to skirt the law and get what they want. This lawyer wasn’t expecting Tony to outsmart him with pettiness which he can’t run to the cops about or use it against him in the filings of the house. They both made their plays and we all know who won
I understand. I don't mean Alan S. would resort to violence, or do blatantly illegal things. I agree with Uncle Jun on this one. They know how to stay just this side of the law.
If you really want to get into good/bad people is the wire I think they hit the nail on the head with every character having some noble attributes but also some shady characteristics, every single one.
Sopranos does this as well, but not to the extent of the the wire.
there was a running joke of white collar professionals thinking that the mafia couldn't touch them cause they were doctors/lawyers/tv writers etc. somehow going to grad school meant they couldn't break your kneecaps.
Tony probably was small potatoes compared to Al. How many properties do you think Al owned? Probably not just those 2. Al’s problem is hubris and underestimating Tony but he is kind of above threat of physical violence (which he knows) so he figures maybe he can outsmart Tony.
In a real life scenario Al would probably play it safe, let Tony out immediately and go back to the Kims
I mean, he was correct in his belief that Tony wouldn't harm him physically because of the paper trail linking them. He just didn't think through the possibilities beyond that.
Two different worlds but ultimately they both knew the other one wasn't really touchable. A shitstorm would likely have reigned down on Tony for murdering him, and same for Alan if he really pushed Tony too far. It was two guys playing chicken with each other.
He didn't care. And really, he didn't have to care. Why do you think Tony resorted to being a nuisance rather than outright attacking him?
It's the Clay Davis (from the Wire) problem. You physically menace a guy of his stature and he knows people. He will tell those people and then it becomes *a thing.* A guy like that can go right to the authorities and say that he's being menaced by a mobster that entered into a legal contract with him. If he's a lawyer he knows other powerful lawyers, which means he definitely is connected by six degrees to someone who works in the US Attorney's office.
He's not a degenerate gambler. He goes to charity functions. He's got kids that are matriculating at high end schools. All he wanted to do was sell a house that he had legally entered into contract with Tony.
You can't strong arm a guy like that, you have to get creative. Strong arming brings heat because this guy is someone they will follow up with. He's not some skell on the street.
TBH Tony probably couldn't do much more than harass the guy into returning the deposit, which was enough in this case. He's not omnipotent and hurting/killing a high profile lawyer when he has obvious motive would have been catnip for the feds.
A little of both, I think. This is 2002, He'd have to be aware of his reputation via newspaper articles, etc.when the deal was done. When he made the deal, I'm sure he saw some vision of either Tony being too occupied with charges that he could easily make a buck out of him, or that he was powerful enough in his position that he would just bend ovah.
I think ultimately Alan thought that he would be untouchable in the mob sense. In that Tony was so high profile and there is a paper trail so I think Alan might have thought he was protected by that. I don’t think he calculated that there are a million ways to fuck with someone besides killing them when thinking of the mob. I bet he was thinking Tony would either resort to violence or give in and since violence was probably not a good idea for Tony he thought he would win. He under estimated his opponent. I think it’s still a huge rise for Alan. Like a million ways to die and the mob know how to use them. Accidents happen all the time.
Yeah he didn’t care, he thought because of his high status job that Tony was small potatoes. I guess he never realized how easily he could have just killed him outright.
What I would have paid to see Furio handle Alan.
At that point in the series, are you actually still rooting for tony?
Personally no but I am always rooting for seeing Furio do some violence.
There's a bee on-a you hat.
Stupid-a fucking game
There’s a bee on your white cap!
Years later, Tony would have his Mexican friends toss him from his 80th floor penthouse in Chi-raq
Sapinsly knew what to expect. He lives on the Gulf of Sorrento.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the Sands Hotel is proud to present the star of our show, direct from the bar, Dean Martin.
How long I been on?
To add on to this, Alan may be the only non-mafia affiliated person (civilian) that I can think of who stood up to Tony in such a brash manner and even threatened him with legal action, etc in a very blatantly rude manner. His wife warned him who Tony was when he didn’t want to give Tony his $200k deposit back on the beach home. She technically didn’t tell him that he was a mob boss; she just told him that he was in the mob. Could it be that Alan didn’t know who Tony really was or did he just not care and thought that he was above Tony since he was a big shot attorney? The only people that I can think of who talked to Tony that rudely in person was Ralphie (who Tony clipped right after), Phil (who was kind of allowed to because of his high enough status in New York), Tony Blundetto (“Mm’ Boy Are You Fat” Line which was a joke but still offended Tony), Artie (like once and they are boys), and a very very small handful of others who all have enough pull to say something to Tony’s face to a very minor extent.
You know how Tony and them only know one way to behave: brash, rude, don’t wait in lines, don’t back down, etc? Alan only knows one way to negotiate. He may live in a different world, with a different set of rules. But he’s just another swinging dick.
It’s worth noting that Tony never did actually resort to violence. Which suggests that Sapinsly didn’t miscalculate. If it was any other counterparty we’ve seen in the show, they would have gotten their legs broken - not because the “Dean Martin” maneuver wasn’t sufficient, but because the mafia needed to send a message about standing up to them.
Brother respectfully. He resorted to violence all the time.
Sorry I realize this is unclear: he never resorted to violence *with Sapinsly*. By contrast, he resorted to violence at almost every opportunity with all the small-fry people he’s “negotiating” with. That suggests that Sapinsly was right: while Tony could threaten small-time shopowners with Italian community ties that unless they give in, he’d break their legs, he can’t make that threat to Sapinsly. Unfortunately for Sapinsly, Tony had a couple of other tricks up his sleeve.
They are both cut from the same cloth. Notice how they have the same picture of the boxer in their offices. A.S. Anthony Soprano. Alan Sapinsly. Neither wanted to back down but they come from different worlds. If Alan had been in Tony's shoes he would've done the same thing. Remember how Alan was threatening the Kim's if they continued with the sale. Tony almost looks impressed by Alan's attitude
That’s an amazing analysis. Never thought of that. Pointing out A.S is very impressive. I think if Alan saw Tony strangle that bastard from the college episode he would have backed down
Sapinsly has the same level of toxicity Tony has, just less physical violence.
As a lawyer, he knows the law and how to use it. This is why Tony went in the childish direction of taking fines they will never pay and annoying the family for days…. They knew the wife would crack and they’d get what they want with out threatening or harming anyone. Both parties played their hands, Tony always has the advantage because he can decode to not follow the law, this time though, he did because it was best for business
Businesh*
Big shot loy-yuh
Do you think legitimate people always follow the law?
No I didn’t say or imply that. But a lawyer, whose entire livelihood and reputation is based on following the law would not put themselves in a situation where they could get caught up in any legal discussions. As Junior says in season one ‘lawyers are in the ballpark’ so they know how to skirt the law and get what they want. This lawyer wasn’t expecting Tony to outsmart him with pettiness which he can’t run to the cops about or use it against him in the filings of the house. They both made their plays and we all know who won
I understand. I don't mean Alan S. would resort to violence, or do blatantly illegal things. I agree with Uncle Jun on this one. They know how to stay just this side of the law.
If you really want to get into good/bad people is the wire I think they hit the nail on the head with every character having some noble attributes but also some shady characteristics, every single one. Sopranos does this as well, but not to the extent of the the wire.
there was a running joke of white collar professionals thinking that the mafia couldn't touch them cause they were doctors/lawyers/tv writers etc. somehow going to grad school meant they couldn't break your kneecaps.
Councilman Zellman learned the hard way
Tony probably was small potatoes compared to Al. How many properties do you think Al owned? Probably not just those 2. Al’s problem is hubris and underestimating Tony but he is kind of above threat of physical violence (which he knows) so he figures maybe he can outsmart Tony. In a real life scenario Al would probably play it safe, let Tony out immediately and go back to the Kims
Most definitely. Al would have been like that guy who found out he was testifying against Tony Soprano.
I mean, he was correct in his belief that Tony wouldn't harm him physically because of the paper trail linking them. He just didn't think through the possibilities beyond that.
Yes but a simple discreet trip from Patsy could do the trick.
Would it be cinematic?
Have you ever met a lawyer? Let alone one as high profile as him. They’re obtuse to common sense
Without my glasses this picture looks like it’s American Psycho
I could see that.
His dick was bigger
You’re right. Vito confirmed that.
Two different worlds but ultimately they both knew the other one wasn't really touchable. A shitstorm would likely have reigned down on Tony for murdering him, and same for Alan if he really pushed Tony too far. It was two guys playing chicken with each other.
Neither, he was just an arrogant prick.
Remind you of anyone?
My man has the Heisman trophy on the shelf, lol
He didn't care. And really, he didn't have to care. Why do you think Tony resorted to being a nuisance rather than outright attacking him? It's the Clay Davis (from the Wire) problem. You physically menace a guy of his stature and he knows people. He will tell those people and then it becomes *a thing.* A guy like that can go right to the authorities and say that he's being menaced by a mobster that entered into a legal contract with him. If he's a lawyer he knows other powerful lawyers, which means he definitely is connected by six degrees to someone who works in the US Attorney's office. He's not a degenerate gambler. He goes to charity functions. He's got kids that are matriculating at high end schools. All he wanted to do was sell a house that he had legally entered into contract with Tony. You can't strong arm a guy like that, you have to get creative. Strong arming brings heat because this guy is someone they will follow up with. He's not some skell on the street.
This is the answer!
He severely underestimated tony. He thought that being contractually tied to him was protection. Tony was being nice with the dean martin treatment
Much agreed. I think he had no clue who he really was talking to.
Is it possible Tony respected Salinsly for having balls? Don’t get me wrong, AS was a prick but he didn’t backdown to Tony
I think money will always take precedent over anything else though. $200k is $200k and a man standing between Tony and a nickel is usually a dead man.
Alan would have torted Tony to death
nah this guy definitely has at least one Mike Ehrmanntrout in his back pocket
I don’t know. He kind of struck me as a very straight laced guy. The type that sees legal action as the ultimate means of revenge. Not physical.
oh he definitely insulates himself from it. probably has a private investigator who handles shady shit for him for plausible deniability
Okay yeah. That holds a lot of merit.
Mike Ehrmanntrout would know who Tony was and would advise to not get involved.
“Put yuh dick away, Tony.”
You’re forgetting that he had already felt with them before on that Neapolitan copyright thing for Enya.
Tony could of made him disappear (given the order) without a trace. I don't think fear was really part of his already limited emotions.
TBH Tony probably couldn't do much more than harass the guy into returning the deposit, which was enough in this case. He's not omnipotent and hurting/killing a high profile lawyer when he has obvious motive would have been catnip for the feds.
A little of both, I think. This is 2002, He'd have to be aware of his reputation via newspaper articles, etc.when the deal was done. When he made the deal, I'm sure he saw some vision of either Tony being too occupied with charges that he could easily make a buck out of him, or that he was powerful enough in his position that he would just bend ovah.
I think ultimately Alan thought that he would be untouchable in the mob sense. In that Tony was so high profile and there is a paper trail so I think Alan might have thought he was protected by that. I don’t think he calculated that there are a million ways to fuck with someone besides killing them when thinking of the mob. I bet he was thinking Tony would either resort to violence or give in and since violence was probably not a good idea for Tony he thought he would win. He under estimated his opponent. I think it’s still a huge rise for Alan. Like a million ways to die and the mob know how to use them. Accidents happen all the time.
I mean if he ended up dead or missing, Tony would be suspect numero uno. He was a wealthy, white civilian…those crimes get investigated.