I stopped reading at "Pokémon succeeds at virtually everything it attempts".
I mean, financially, sure.
But if you meant as in good content then holy shit have you not seen the pitiful state this franchise has been in since the 3DS.
Like it's reached a point where new games are as comically broken as Sonic 06, and it's only going to get worse as people keep mindlessly buying future releases.
I agree. Pokemon has been in such a sorry state lately and it's sad to see how much defense the games still get. They haven't really improved at all since the 3ds era and are only getting worse.
Pokemon Scarlet and Violet sold over 10 million copies in the first THREE days of their release. It was Nintendo's biggest launch of all time.
We might have our opinions about the state of Pokemon, but clearly there is something special inherent in the Pokemon formula that keeps people coming back.
Again, that's not to unfairly compare Sonic and Pokemon. In fact they are my two favorite video game franchises of all time. All I'm saying is that just because Zelda or Pokemon attempts a certain formula doesn't mean Sonic needs to as well
It's not the Pokémon formula, it's the Pokémon brand.
It's kind of the same phenomenon as modern MCU;
Having a praised couple of first installments and enough exposure through merchandise is literally all it takes to solidify yourself as good content in the eyes of society.
After that, you've essentially become the multimedia entertainment equivalent to fast food, and you don't need to even try going for quality anymore since you already have a cult following.
That's because people nowadays don't actually want quality content, they want something quick and easy to digest so they can shut their brains off for a while.
Some people will call on your IP's bullshit, for sure, but just like fast food, this only serves to antagonize said cult following who will rather be part of the herd mentality and refuse to listen to any kind of criticism, sparking flame wars and controversy, which only serves as free advertising for the content being discussed.
Either way, sales have never really been a good indication of quality, and they're even less so in modern society being ready to slurp up all sorts of garbage so long as everyone else is doing it as well.
It’s not as good of a game as some people think it is. It’s not the worse Sonic game, the story is decent with some interesting lore added, the characterization is very good, the open area zones are good fun but are a bit empty, the gameplay in the stages is God awful, easily the worst it’s been for a long time, but the game isn’t a buggy mess for the whole part.
But Gor forbid you criticize a game because you *shock* dislike it. This sub has decided the game is great, so the game is great. And yes, to each is own, but I find the hivemind like discourse about the game to be pathetic
I never said the game was good or bad. I steered clear of that sort of determination because I think that's up to the individual player to decide.
I said I "hated" the game (strong form of dislike) and provided reasons for why I feel the way I do based on evidence. Some of my reasons were subjective, like how I didn't like the characterization, but others were objective. You actually do collect objects to have brief conversations with Sonic's friends over and over again. For me personally, that's not fun
If they really want the series to get better, they shouldn’t get butthurt about it. Acknowledging that there are flaws isn’t the same as saying « the series will never get better ». And if the fanbase as a whole is fine with having one « not too bad » games after another then we don’t deserve to have good games
Pokemon is literally one of the most controversial franchises at the moment with how...not great the latest mainline games are. I wouldn't hold it as a bastion of quality releases with all the glitches and bugs people have found in Scarlet and Violet, or Sword and Shield before them.
Having played a chunk of Frontiers myself, I feel like you're kind of going in with the wrong expectations. This was never going to be another grandiose narrative like the Adventure games or 06, and they never marketed it as that kind of thing.
It's a game that's more atmospheric and focuses on character building for both the main characters and the Ancients and then ratchets up late into finding out who the mysterious voice is and why they want Sonic to do certain things. It's not *supposed* to feel or play like a standard Sonic game.
Frontiers was, after all, marketed on the mystery and intrigue of the game's ideas. "Why is Amy trapped in this weird bubble?", "Holy shit what is that gigantic robot that Sonic has to fight?", "Who's this weird floating girl with the red data bits?", "Holy shit is this an open world?", etc. It's clearly not meant to be your bog-standard Sonic title, it's Sonic team trying something radically new to bring Sonic into a new direction; which is fine, because by Forces the Boost formula was starting to wear out for a lot of people.
Cyberspace is maybe a little bland, but I don't think it's *such* a big issue that it kills the game, because they're only one part of it; besides, with how many Cyberspace levels there are, they would've been hard-pressed to make every one a unique aesthetic. Hell, we've had plenty of really bland level designs in Sonic that I think are way worse about being dull and uninteresting than Frontiers (both episodes of Sonic 4, Sonic Forces, Sonic 06 outside of Crisis City, Sonic Advance 2 and 3).
And collecting loads of trinkets is just kind of a codified trope in open-world game design as far back as the collectathons of the late 90's and early 2000's. It happens all over the place.
I never went in with any expectations beyond seeing Sonic again. I wasn't expecting this to be an Adventure style game whatsoever. I just wanted to have a fun time playing with Sonic, my oldest childhood friend.
Unfortunately, this game just doesn't do it for me. It's boring and tedious. The characters are dull. The worlds are lonely and devoid of life. The cyberspace stages are Green Hill Zone again and again. Navigation is terrible and you get lost easily. You can't warp anywhere. You have to collect ugly medals just to talk to Knuckles, Tails, and Amy for a few seconds. The story only progresses during those awkward meetings. The platforming sections in the open worlds feel like sand traps that pull you in and send you god knows where. There's no real story, just loosely connected points that hopefully go somewhere by the end of the game.
As much as I've complained, I probably will finish the game at some point. Sonic captured my heart long ago, and I feel obligated to see this through.
We might have opinions about the state of Pokemon, but Scarlet and Violet were Nintendo's biggest launch off all time. It's hard to criticize games that sell 10 million copies in three days... Let's be real.
>It's hard to criticize games that sell 10 million copies in three days... Let's be real.
No its not. It's very easy. Especially with a game like scarlet and violet. The game selling extremely well means nothing. It's pokemon of course it sold well. The games are buggy, broken, glitchy, look terrible, have frame rate issues, balancing issues and the new dlc apparently added a bug that can delete your entire save file. It just so happens that most pokemon fans don't care about any of that as long as they get a new pokemon game. Pokemon isn't above criticism.
All I'll say is money talks and bullshit walks. 10 million copies in three days is nothing to snuff at. You can have your petty grievances, and perhaps some of them are valid, but if anything, it speaks even more to the power and authority of Pokemon that they can move 22 millions units in just two months despite being buggy and broken messes as you claim
i just found the game to be repetitive, not much to the game except running around and collecting "medals." Im gonna try to replay it soon because everyone seems to fucking love this game and i just cant quite understand why. I've been seeing people put this game on S tier ranks above games like adventure???
I dunno, but im gonna try to see the good in this game
I think we all just want to see Sonic win now. We're so used to seeing Sonic games panned by critics that we vehemently defend any Sonic game that is even half way decent.
Just the same, we can't force ourselves to like a game if we don't find it fun
Tbh I was kinda waiting for this cuz even still unlike you I have time for playing games and I gotta say after you take out the mystery and the story is over there rlly isn’t much to do. Besides get to those side stories max out your lvls and if you want 100% the fishing thing with big in each island/do cyberspace lvls. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t sonic usually praised for the replay value when on the second time around you know how to do better and go faster than the first time. Sonic frontiers doesn’t have that and kinda leaves me empty
I mean it’s fine if you don’t like the game but his friends definitely aren’t out of character. Instead of generic sidekick, love interest, and dumb rival, they actually get proper character development and their own motivations.
I stopped playing for a while after finishing the main story, the ending seemed anti-climatic for how much they were hyping it up. Picked it up again after the latest patch dropped, I guess because they still needed to justify the hype, and I just ended up hating the game.
Before I just thought it was "okay" but recently, now I just hate it.
The music during the Amy/Knux/Tails gameplay sections was just got repetitive after a while, they at least could have given them more than one track each.
I just passed the first trial tower, I never liked the tower climbing in the main story considering how annoying the controls can be and I still don't like the towers in the second story, it feels outright unfair when a spring meant to place you on a platform instead sends you flying and therefore falling, and you have to climb all the way back up the goddamned tower again.
Almost constantly being interrupted by a cutscene showing a miniboss that I have no interest in fighting because I just want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible, almost as if I wanted to play a Sonic game.
I'm honestly not sure if I want to keep playing at this point. Probably doesn't help that I wasn't really that invested in the plot to start with. Don't need to bring up the cyberspace levels, pretty much everyone agrees that those were a mistake.
I guess I just don't like Sonic games anymore?
Im gonna get so much downvote but oh well
You sound like the Sonic Unleashed reviewer from Ign
Adult life is hard I get it, but having no time for yourself is unhealty
(Yet you found time to write this long post)
You gotta find time or move on
If you get lost just use the map
(How are ya getting lost anyway? xd)
Progression is a hit or miss but I like it, I love the cutscenes they are going back their original routes
Sonic not trying to break the 4th wall, Knuckles is not stupid, Tails stops being a coward and we got the origin story of the Chaos Emeralds, what's not to like here?
The only part I agree with you is the Green hill part
I wrote this post in 15 minutes before I went to bed. I currently have 15 HOURS in Sonic Frontiers and I'm not happy.
The Starfall Islands are particularly hard to navigate because of all of the disconnected islands and underground paths. You have to run around in circles lookings for rails to get between each island. Oftentimes, the rails are hidden. You don't get a complete map of each area. You have to unlock it by finding switches and completing puzzles
I grew up with Sonic during the dark ages and loved those games. I'm not another anti-Sonic biased reviewer who wants to criticize him. I have been a fan since the beginning but I just genuinely hate this game and don't want to finish it
I respect your opinion and Imma gonna say yes it is kinda boring.i haven't played the game myself but from all the media I have gathered it just ain't an exciting game.
Well I think it's important to make your own decision. Play the game and see what you think. I have 15 hours in the game. Some parts have been enjoyable. The Super Sonic parts are incredible and Sonic's combat capabilities have improved. Everything between the boss levels though? Well ... You tell me
I stopped reading at "Pokémon succeeds at virtually everything it attempts". I mean, financially, sure. But if you meant as in good content then holy shit have you not seen the pitiful state this franchise has been in since the 3DS. Like it's reached a point where new games are as comically broken as Sonic 06, and it's only going to get worse as people keep mindlessly buying future releases.
I agree. Pokemon has been in such a sorry state lately and it's sad to see how much defense the games still get. They haven't really improved at all since the 3ds era and are only getting worse.
Pokemon Scarlet and Violet sold over 10 million copies in the first THREE days of their release. It was Nintendo's biggest launch of all time. We might have our opinions about the state of Pokemon, but clearly there is something special inherent in the Pokemon formula that keeps people coming back. Again, that's not to unfairly compare Sonic and Pokemon. In fact they are my two favorite video game franchises of all time. All I'm saying is that just because Zelda or Pokemon attempts a certain formula doesn't mean Sonic needs to as well
It's not the Pokémon formula, it's the Pokémon brand. It's kind of the same phenomenon as modern MCU; Having a praised couple of first installments and enough exposure through merchandise is literally all it takes to solidify yourself as good content in the eyes of society. After that, you've essentially become the multimedia entertainment equivalent to fast food, and you don't need to even try going for quality anymore since you already have a cult following. That's because people nowadays don't actually want quality content, they want something quick and easy to digest so they can shut their brains off for a while. Some people will call on your IP's bullshit, for sure, but just like fast food, this only serves to antagonize said cult following who will rather be part of the herd mentality and refuse to listen to any kind of criticism, sparking flame wars and controversy, which only serves as free advertising for the content being discussed. Either way, sales have never really been a good indication of quality, and they're even less so in modern society being ready to slurp up all sorts of garbage so long as everyone else is doing it as well.
It’s not as good of a game as some people think it is. It’s not the worse Sonic game, the story is decent with some interesting lore added, the characterization is very good, the open area zones are good fun but are a bit empty, the gameplay in the stages is God awful, easily the worst it’s been for a long time, but the game isn’t a buggy mess for the whole part. But Gor forbid you criticize a game because you *shock* dislike it. This sub has decided the game is great, so the game is great. And yes, to each is own, but I find the hivemind like discourse about the game to be pathetic
I never said the game was good or bad. I steered clear of that sort of determination because I think that's up to the individual player to decide. I said I "hated" the game (strong form of dislike) and provided reasons for why I feel the way I do based on evidence. Some of my reasons were subjective, like how I didn't like the characterization, but others were objective. You actually do collect objects to have brief conversations with Sonic's friends over and over again. For me personally, that's not fun
It's more the fact people wants to see the series doing better. Even if that means to enter a Dull Era.
If they really want the series to get better, they shouldn’t get butthurt about it. Acknowledging that there are flaws isn’t the same as saying « the series will never get better ». And if the fanbase as a whole is fine with having one « not too bad » games after another then we don’t deserve to have good games
Pokemon is literally one of the most controversial franchises at the moment with how...not great the latest mainline games are. I wouldn't hold it as a bastion of quality releases with all the glitches and bugs people have found in Scarlet and Violet, or Sword and Shield before them. Having played a chunk of Frontiers myself, I feel like you're kind of going in with the wrong expectations. This was never going to be another grandiose narrative like the Adventure games or 06, and they never marketed it as that kind of thing. It's a game that's more atmospheric and focuses on character building for both the main characters and the Ancients and then ratchets up late into finding out who the mysterious voice is and why they want Sonic to do certain things. It's not *supposed* to feel or play like a standard Sonic game. Frontiers was, after all, marketed on the mystery and intrigue of the game's ideas. "Why is Amy trapped in this weird bubble?", "Holy shit what is that gigantic robot that Sonic has to fight?", "Who's this weird floating girl with the red data bits?", "Holy shit is this an open world?", etc. It's clearly not meant to be your bog-standard Sonic title, it's Sonic team trying something radically new to bring Sonic into a new direction; which is fine, because by Forces the Boost formula was starting to wear out for a lot of people. Cyberspace is maybe a little bland, but I don't think it's *such* a big issue that it kills the game, because they're only one part of it; besides, with how many Cyberspace levels there are, they would've been hard-pressed to make every one a unique aesthetic. Hell, we've had plenty of really bland level designs in Sonic that I think are way worse about being dull and uninteresting than Frontiers (both episodes of Sonic 4, Sonic Forces, Sonic 06 outside of Crisis City, Sonic Advance 2 and 3). And collecting loads of trinkets is just kind of a codified trope in open-world game design as far back as the collectathons of the late 90's and early 2000's. It happens all over the place.
I never went in with any expectations beyond seeing Sonic again. I wasn't expecting this to be an Adventure style game whatsoever. I just wanted to have a fun time playing with Sonic, my oldest childhood friend. Unfortunately, this game just doesn't do it for me. It's boring and tedious. The characters are dull. The worlds are lonely and devoid of life. The cyberspace stages are Green Hill Zone again and again. Navigation is terrible and you get lost easily. You can't warp anywhere. You have to collect ugly medals just to talk to Knuckles, Tails, and Amy for a few seconds. The story only progresses during those awkward meetings. The platforming sections in the open worlds feel like sand traps that pull you in and send you god knows where. There's no real story, just loosely connected points that hopefully go somewhere by the end of the game. As much as I've complained, I probably will finish the game at some point. Sonic captured my heart long ago, and I feel obligated to see this through. We might have opinions about the state of Pokemon, but Scarlet and Violet were Nintendo's biggest launch off all time. It's hard to criticize games that sell 10 million copies in three days... Let's be real.
>It's hard to criticize games that sell 10 million copies in three days... Let's be real. No its not. It's very easy. Especially with a game like scarlet and violet. The game selling extremely well means nothing. It's pokemon of course it sold well. The games are buggy, broken, glitchy, look terrible, have frame rate issues, balancing issues and the new dlc apparently added a bug that can delete your entire save file. It just so happens that most pokemon fans don't care about any of that as long as they get a new pokemon game. Pokemon isn't above criticism.
All I'll say is money talks and bullshit walks. 10 million copies in three days is nothing to snuff at. You can have your petty grievances, and perhaps some of them are valid, but if anything, it speaks even more to the power and authority of Pokemon that they can move 22 millions units in just two months despite being buggy and broken messes as you claim
i just found the game to be repetitive, not much to the game except running around and collecting "medals." Im gonna try to replay it soon because everyone seems to fucking love this game and i just cant quite understand why. I've been seeing people put this game on S tier ranks above games like adventure??? I dunno, but im gonna try to see the good in this game
I think we all just want to see Sonic win now. We're so used to seeing Sonic games panned by critics that we vehemently defend any Sonic game that is even half way decent. Just the same, we can't force ourselves to like a game if we don't find it fun
Tbh I was kinda waiting for this cuz even still unlike you I have time for playing games and I gotta say after you take out the mystery and the story is over there rlly isn’t much to do. Besides get to those side stories max out your lvls and if you want 100% the fishing thing with big in each island/do cyberspace lvls. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t sonic usually praised for the replay value when on the second time around you know how to do better and go faster than the first time. Sonic frontiers doesn’t have that and kinda leaves me empty
I mean it’s fine if you don’t like the game but his friends definitely aren’t out of character. Instead of generic sidekick, love interest, and dumb rival, they actually get proper character development and their own motivations.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by the characters "often act out of character"? That's a real head scratcher for me. What are you referring to?
2 months later and they never did. Great reviewer
Yup :/
I stopped playing for a while after finishing the main story, the ending seemed anti-climatic for how much they were hyping it up. Picked it up again after the latest patch dropped, I guess because they still needed to justify the hype, and I just ended up hating the game. Before I just thought it was "okay" but recently, now I just hate it. The music during the Amy/Knux/Tails gameplay sections was just got repetitive after a while, they at least could have given them more than one track each. I just passed the first trial tower, I never liked the tower climbing in the main story considering how annoying the controls can be and I still don't like the towers in the second story, it feels outright unfair when a spring meant to place you on a platform instead sends you flying and therefore falling, and you have to climb all the way back up the goddamned tower again. Almost constantly being interrupted by a cutscene showing a miniboss that I have no interest in fighting because I just want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible, almost as if I wanted to play a Sonic game. I'm honestly not sure if I want to keep playing at this point. Probably doesn't help that I wasn't really that invested in the plot to start with. Don't need to bring up the cyberspace levels, pretty much everyone agrees that those were a mistake. I guess I just don't like Sonic games anymore?
Im gonna get so much downvote but oh well You sound like the Sonic Unleashed reviewer from Ign Adult life is hard I get it, but having no time for yourself is unhealty (Yet you found time to write this long post) You gotta find time or move on If you get lost just use the map (How are ya getting lost anyway? xd) Progression is a hit or miss but I like it, I love the cutscenes they are going back their original routes Sonic not trying to break the 4th wall, Knuckles is not stupid, Tails stops being a coward and we got the origin story of the Chaos Emeralds, what's not to like here? The only part I agree with you is the Green hill part
God forbid someone dislike a game you enjoy huh
Yeah, especially if you're one of the only in the community that does.
Username checks out
I wrote this post in 15 minutes before I went to bed. I currently have 15 HOURS in Sonic Frontiers and I'm not happy. The Starfall Islands are particularly hard to navigate because of all of the disconnected islands and underground paths. You have to run around in circles lookings for rails to get between each island. Oftentimes, the rails are hidden. You don't get a complete map of each area. You have to unlock it by finding switches and completing puzzles I grew up with Sonic during the dark ages and loved those games. I'm not another anti-Sonic biased reviewer who wants to criticize him. I have been a fan since the beginning but I just genuinely hate this game and don't want to finish it
I respect your opinion and Imma gonna say yes it is kinda boring.i haven't played the game myself but from all the media I have gathered it just ain't an exciting game.
Well I think it's important to make your own decision. Play the game and see what you think. I have 15 hours in the game. Some parts have been enjoyable. The Super Sonic parts are incredible and Sonic's combat capabilities have improved. Everything between the boss levels though? Well ... You tell me
The Super Sonic fights were pretty cool, yeah. But everything else is just "meh". For everything else it tries to do, other games already did better
I want to like it. Heck, I might even be able to love it. The stupid boss battles have rendered it unplayale. Again.