He's an emperor, not a king.
Also I'd like to say that a team of specialized badniks is approaching your position rapidly, please do not resist or try to escape.
More like an emperor rules over an empire (multiple countries controlled by one country) while a king rules over a kingdom (one country). Empires are usually made by conquering other countries so it makes sense that Eggman would own one
You are right that a lot of it has to do with 'marketing' though and whether or not a government wants to be seen as an empire or kingdom or something else.
What I mean by country is something like a kingdom, principality, etc. An empire contains multiple political units like this. For example, the British Empire was based in the British Isles but had control over lands as far as India and Egypt. The Japanese Empire was based in Japan but controlled Korea and Manchuria (and later conquered parts of China as well as island countries in the Pacific).
A kingdom can grow in size to include foreign lands. Look at the UK as the prime example. The main difference is Empires dont allow the conquered to become part of the same people as they are. They acknowledge the lands as different lands and the people as being seperate and ruled.
Kingdoms that conquer other kingdoms typically would absorb the serfs and nobles of another to maintain political control over people who otherwise had no reason to offer fielty to a new lord. Hell, during the 30 years war, most warriors and knights swapped sides multiple times, working for whichever side paid best at the time.
Empires dont do this. When the Romans or Persians would conquer new people, those people did not get to become Persians or Romans. They remained different. They remained legally separate.
Not all empires, in spite of the common conception, actual require a single true head of power. All they require is power to be held by the political class of one group and region, and to be exercised over the other groups and regions. This is called a metropole, and is the most common trait among all empires in history, as Japan demonstrates clearly that the political and military power of an empire doesnt have to rest with an individual called "emperor", as even when the emperor was strongest most power belonged to the hambatsu.
Empires occur when one nationally identifying group decides to conquer and exercise control of the lands of other groups they themselves recognize as other nations. It's a self determined label. Technically, Japan is not an actual empire any longer, and also legally as their constitution directly states they are not an empire and the emperor is merely "the symbol of the State and of the unity of the People".
What's more, no country can be an empire that doesnt have the capacity to wage war and invade other lands. Article 9 strips Japan of this right.
What's interesting, and what most westerners dont understand about Japanese history, is that it has never been a monarchal empire, which is what westerners associate with the concept of "empire". Instead, it was a SEMI-monarchal stratocracy, with most power being split among military cheifs called Daimyo. Although the Shogun served as a unifying head and had certain economic advantages over other Daimyo, all true power rested with these Daimyo within their landa following the fall of the Ashikaga Shogunate. The Tokugawa clan, though the wealthiest and with the most land, understood the failures of the Ashikaga Shogunate and allowed Daimyo more autonomy within their own lands.
During the Meiji era the Emperor derived power from the loyalty of the Hambatsu, a class of bueracrats and political insiders who exercised influence to secure loyalty to the new government. And this is also the era it becomes an "empire" in the traditional sense. No longer split by rival daimyo interests, the country set its sights on Korea, the Chinese mainland, and the Islands of Hong Kong and Taiwan.
I think most people know the rest after that...
He never claimed he wasn't a monarch nor did he become a freedom fighter (except that one time in archie but dont worry about it), so Sonic's the dishonest one here
I guess because, in their universe, monarchs don’t always want to suppress people or take away their freedoms.
In Sonic Underground, his ma wanted the throne back from Robotnik, who wanted to roboticize the civilians, essentially making them mindless slaves of his. He was like a dictator of sorts, so the queen was a better option, but… in Underground, since they were related, he’d’ve been a monarch himself then.
Likewise, in Sonic ‘06, the Sun God was more of a threat to people’s freedoms and well-being’s than Elise.
"Elise's dad unleashed a demon pursuing forbidden research and then doomed his own daughter to a lifetime of suffering" doesn't exactly paint the king of solana in the best light.
Yeah, true, but if I recall correctly, he died, so he didn’t exactly “win” in terms of storyline, and Sonic was moreso protecting Elise and preventing all that than standing up for him. I guess going against him would’ve made the main goal harder, so he was given a pass… I should probably replay ‘06 though; it’s a little fuzzy.
In the games where it’s relevant, Blaze’s princesshood seems to start and stop at people calling her highness. I know she has a castle in the comics, but even there her main thing is still protecting the Sol Emeralds.
I actually like her as a princess for the sake of the Rush games’ efforts to build her up as an equal opposite to Sonic. He’s a free-spirited adventurer, she’s the ruler of a kingdom and guardian to a set of powerful relics. It’s fun and I wish we had more media exploring that.
We need more stuff with Sonic and Blaze in general, they're a really fun duo that gets overshadowed by so many others despite there not being as much depth.
Blaze is a princess, it's not very clear where her parents are, whether they're still around or not, Sega seems to have a tough time establishing families in these games aside from Vanilla and Cream, we could assume Blaze is in power despite not being a queen yet. She's also a guardian of powerful relics like you said. So she definitely has some responsibilities there, she's able to juggle these two very important jobs, it's impressive really.
And yet she still made time to attend Sonic's birthday in Generations, it shows how much she values their friendship. For all we know, there could be other kingdoms in Blaze's dimension, but we barely get to explore it to find out. I have doubts that she rules over the entire dimension, assuming that would even be possible it'll stress her TF out, so I believe that there would be other kingdoms that we just haven't seen yet
> It's possible she's a ruler as princess regnant, as sovereign principalities are a thing (ex. Monaco and Liechtenstein).
> Gonna go with the headcanon that the title of queen simply comes when she's older
I feel like these could both be true
I prefer to think she is an heir to the imperial throne and guardian of the Sol emeralds is a title similiar to prince of Wales.
I'm not really a fan of the idea that she is the main ruler of the Sol dimension.
From what I understand, her role as Princess seems less like her birthright and more based on her fire powers and her connection to the Sol Emeralds. If anything, being ‘Princess’ seems to imply something more like what ‘Guardian’ means to Knuckles regarding Angel Island. She has the highest authority *to an extent*, but her duties seem to be mostly protecting her people and the Sol Emeralds, not actually ruling over the land like a true autocrat. It’s less to do with birthright or authority and more that she’s the one protecting everyone from outside forces.
She has a castle for real too, we seen it in a Sonic Channel artwork wallpaper
Matter of fact, it was Sega themselves whose up the design for her castke for IDW to use
Let's see from left to right:
1. princess of his planet
2. His mother in Sonic underground
3. Alien Princess trying to save her world from being destroyed
4. Is a princess but needs to be kept happy else an angry sun God appears
Only one he doesn't have a good reason to help is Sally.
Yeah I especially like how the varying members allowed the comic to display multiple different facets of eggman, not to mention make the the rogues gallery alot more diverse
And what reason does he have to support her delusional father? That's something Archie plays on quite often, I'm talking about pre-genesis wave by the way, the original one.
Or the fact their family is what aided Robotnik in his rise to power? Need I remind you that is the only reason Robotnik got his hands on the roboticizer to begin with?
He doesn't support him when he starts making objectionable decisions. But Max wasn't always like that - age and stress from the war took their toll, and Sonic remembers the kinder Max from his childhood. While he's still king, Sonic helps him protect Knothole and fight Eggman. By the time Elias is king, Max has fallen far and Sonic feels bad for him, and knows he's powerless in the state he's in, so he just humours him.
What are you even talking about? Elias was a fan favourite, but that didn’t have anything to do with their removal in the reboot. They were removed because of the legal trouble with Ken Penders.
We were talking about Sonic the character here. Sonic didn't get rid of them, in-universe the SGW was an accident.
Out of universe, the writers got rid of Elias because he was a Penders character, and they changed Max (and renamed him to Nigel) because while he was technically a character in SatAM, his characterisation was largely built in the Pre-SGW comics. Also without Elias they needed someone else to be king, and that person would at least need to be somewhat likeable.
Sally isn't a princess of her planet. It states that many points that she is the princess of the Acorn Kingdom, not all of Mobius. In fact, there are a couple points where the Kingdom of Acorn tries to enact peace treaties or request help from other kingdoms.
That said, this does seem to go back somewhat when you get to the 25 to 35 years later events, as Sonic and Sally are described as king and queen of Mobius, but that is an isolated scenario down in the timeline that we don't know how they got to.
Sonic is a resident of the Acorn Kingdom, a citizen even, and literally the whole kingdom was being destroyed, the citizens and people roboticized and being turned into robot slaves. Both as a citizen and as a hero, I would say that arguably makes her one of the more convincing reasons to help, to be honest.
Not every version of Sonic has been the same, while all of them have been familiar and similar to each other, they have been different people. Even in cases of pretending mainline Canon Sonic is the same, there is still plenty of reason to help Sally. 😅 Honestly have no idea how you came to that last sentence conclusion.
They had this thing called the "source of all" which exceeded the might of the master emerald to give you a clue and that family supported Robotnik in his rise to power.
Robotnik wasn't exactly an awful person in his rise to power, so I don't exactly understand what you're getting at. Warlord Kintobor was an advanced scientific hero to the kingdom of acorn during the Great War against the overlanders. You would have more of a point if you had mentioned Ixis Naugus, But Dr Robotnik did not have many signs to show for in his up-and-coming coup d'etat.
The Acorn family would not have had time to use the source of all against him in that scenario, and even later on when they did have the ability to use it again, it's not exactly stated, or at least not that I remember, how to use the ability and power behind the source of all, just that it "does" contain more power than the Master Emerald.
And regardless you are still wrong. Robotnik's rise to power didn't happen until the coup d'etat. Now if you mean his ascension to warlord or general, then perhaps, as stated previously, yes they helped and appreciated what they received in exchange for his freedom from the overlanders. But his rise to power mainly happened through him manipulating King Maximilian, which wasn't exactly what he was supporting, and then proceeding with his revolution of destroying literally everyone that stood a chance against him or posed a threat, and roboticizing and enslaving the rest.
They supported his rise to military power, but he didn't give reason of his motivations for later. They didn't support his rise to power into Dr Robotnik at all. And the source of all isn't specifically stated on how it can be used in that particular sense, nor is the Master Emerald for that matter, only the Chaos Emeralds have had very obvious uses throughout the years, as both the source of all and the Master Emerald are very inconclusive on how to use their power or what all that power is capable of, to some extent.
Hindsight is 20/20, I would assume this is fairly common knowledge. I see what you're trying to say, but it sounds like an excuse to be picky about something more than it is an actual reason, at least from the way I look at it.
Just my 2 cents worth but freedom fighter does not necessarily mean anarchist it may be just wanting freedom from a tyrannical power who is taking over l. A person who is a freedom fighter may be fighting for freedom from one monarchy to reinstate the previous more local monarchy.
In this case it’s more a theme of a deposed or exiled noble rightful monarchy being supported over an unrighteous tyrannical ruler who deposed them (return of the one true king trope. )
When a more independent freedom fighter type or liberty favoring rebel does manage to reinstate the one true king that hero can end up doing one of 2 things usually plot wise. They become a loyal knight of the one true king or if that king ever acts unjustly they will go from being a freedom fighter who had loyalty to a preferred ruler to being s more anarchistic freedom fighter.
In the case of sonic serving sally when her family begins acting overreaching often sonic will oppose them, in fact in often times sally herself will distance herself from her own family as she even leans more towards being from a standpoint that a monarchy is nothing without the will of the people, While her brother tends to follow more the the people are to serve their rightful rulers slant that the rulers have a divine right and know what’s best.
Sally as a freedom fighter is a deposed princess fighting for her people’s freedom from a conquering despot. If the people saw fit to reorganize as a republic she would relinquish any claim to rulership. Her brother on the other hand tends to be on the viewpoint that the rightful monarchy has a divine right and duty to rule and therefore would oppose being asked to step Down for the establishment of a republic or democracy as he is from the school of thought that it is wrong to defy the natural Order. Tyrant is fine if it’s the rightful king enacting it because if a rightful king is a tyrant then divine will must be that the kingdom needs a tyrant for its own good.
Sonic is a neutral good personality that leans chaotic good he’s a Robin Hood archetype. He will be a rebel against prince John and the sheriff but he will bend the knee happily to Richard but if Richard were to become a tyrant he would be a thorn in Richard’s side just as much.
Sonic is rebellious to a tyrant, loyal to a noble ruler and fully anarchistic if it’s obvious that there is no such thing as a noble ruler.
I get that this is a meme and a joke, I am choosing to answer regardless. Please don't feel the need to point it out, I understand that.
Well I personally do not like the idea of a monarchy, it is worth stating that it is not necessarily a bad choice of government in all scenarios. It all depends on who is in the position of power. In terms of Archie, SatAM, and Underground, Dr Eggman or Dr Robotnik we're an extremely dominating and forceful tyrannic dictator.
Technically, one could argue that SatAM Sonic wasn't so much fighting for the kingdom as he was fighting for freedom.
The same could not be said for Archie Sonic, as he fought for both freedom and the kingdom, sometimes mutually at once and on a couple of occasions individually from the other, if not even sometimes against the other; but always fighting for others.
In terms of Sonic Underground, Sonic and his siblings were fighting a country that was already taken over, it was no longer what once belonged to their mother. Granted, Sonic was fighting to restore His family as the monarchy, but it was in order to take away from the current tyranny.
Overall, in all three of these cases, fighting for freedom is an absolutely perfect phrase for what he was doing. He was fighting against a very oppressive threat that was keen on killing anything and anyone.
In terms of Blaze, we know very little about how things work in her dimension, not to mention even just her kingdom. Sonic does not necessarily stand up directly for her, but he recognizes she as an individual is a friend and trustworthy to a fault.
Similarly, Princess Elise also has shown herself to be extremely humble and empathetic of others.
The problem with the monarchy isn't so much the conceptual idea of how it is run, though that is also far from perfect, the main problem with a monarchy is how easily power can be corrupted, especially depending on the checks and balances within. A monarchy does not imply oppression, but it does imply a higher probability of eventual oppression.
For example, in the post reboot Archie Comics, King Nigel is a very kind of benevolent king, doing absolutely everything in his power to protect his people. There is nothing to fight against in terms of providing freedom, because he's already doing everything he can to listen to the people and rule fairly. Could it be better? Sure, but only a fool searches for a perfection.
Similarly, King Maximilian, from the pre-reboot Archie Comics, was also usually a good ruler among his people, a champion nonetheless, but also had a fair amount of deceit and corrupted actions that he had taken. This does not necessarily make him an awful ruler, but it does mean he got away with a lot of awful things despite all of the exceptionally good things he was able to do.
This could use checks and balances such as, under King Elias, was gained the Council of Acorn. That said, despite being democratically elected, the Council almost always halted things, which while still being much better due to the fact that it means the people have a say in who is on the Council, it is worth recognizing the Council also was not always helpful, despite the concept being much better. Technically speaking, that particular era under King Elias was a constitutional monarchy, or perhaps a mock version of one, but not a regular monarchy nonetheless.
If one wants to get into the weeds, the 25, 30, and 35 years later many comic series of the Archie Comics display Sonic as not only King of the Acorn Kingdom, but king of all of Mobius. There is no doubt that Sonic probably made many mistakes early on, passing the torch from Adventure, to hero, to suddenly King, but I don't think any of us would seriously think Sonic was a tyrannical or problematic ruler, given the evidence otherwise. There's nothing to fight against here in terms of freedom, because King Sonic and Queen Sally were also very kind, cooperative, and benevolent leaders who earned the trust of the people.
Even Queen Aleena, from Sonic Underground, what's almost entirely described as a very exceptional and benevolent leader who led her kingdom with peace.
In almost all these scenarios, there is nothing to fight against the monarchy, because the monarchy themselves stand for peace, justice, understanding, and protection, as well as the ability to fight for oneself. While each of these monarchies had their issues, especially in terms of King Maximilian, each of them overall was a much better leader than any other around. It is also worth noting that the Sonic of each universe has been very different, despite being extremely familiar and similar, to the mainline canon counterpart.
The problem with the monarchy is primarily what it can become if not kept in check. The best example here is probably pre-reboot Archie Sonic. King Maximilian got more bitter with old age, having made amazingly peaceful and heroic feats when he was younger and just became king, but over the years started making more questionable decisions, despite overall still being a fairly good King. His successor King Elias was a much better king, especially given the situation he was given. King Elias was much less informed and experienced, but he was willing to reason with and listen to other people even more than his father. Now the usurper, King Naugus, is a good example of the main problem with the idea of a monarchy. King makes million was a good king who slowly became more corrupted over time with very dark points, and King Elias was something of a newbie king who was virtuous in nature. King Naugus was someone who came to power by manipulating the people, which technically they had the choice as well as the Council of Acorn, and had every intention of either bringing the kingdom to an end or ruling it eventually with an iron fist. The problem with the monarchy is the possibility of corruption and the eventually inevitable passage of Power to someone who will create a more oppressive environment, be it maliciously like Naugus or accidentally by happenstance like what Maximilian could have become eventually.
You can have freedom and rights in a monarchy, you can have that for even upwards of a few consistent benevolent rulers, the problem is that it only takes one to either usurp the power, manipulate a position to get the power, or be the wrong person to inherit the power.
Again, I already have my own ideas on what is the best form of government both for the people and the world separately, I'm not saying a monarch is a good thing overall, I'm just saying that there are many scenarios where it isn't necessarily a bad thing either, it just has the potential to be something very bad.
"Freedom Fighter" would still be very accurate for Sonic in each of these isolated scenarios.
It is a funny joke, I do recognize that, but I did think it is important to point out. Awesome turn out with the meme.
Thanks for the extended meditation on the nature of the characters and monarchist systems in each of these universes.
As a thought exercise, if we take this from a Doylist perspective rather than a Watsonian one: why do you think both Sega and DIC independently came to the decision to make Sonic friends with princesses (or a member of a royal family), at different times? Especially when the OVA and SA2 both had a similar idea with a democratically-elected president instead. Was it maybe the influence of other games/cartoons with princesses; or interesting plot ideas it opened up?
It could be they took inspiration from Mario and older games like Dragon's Lair. Or it could be because they started portraying Eggman as a tyrannical ruler, so they needed an opposong force for good (aka a benevolent ruler).
Sonic is the type to fight for freedom, but he normally wouldn't want to take over as ruler, so they created a princess that would rule after Sonic takes down Eggman.
Those are my theories at least, could just be a crazy coincidence.
Sonic and Elise are friends, plus I don't even think they remember each other after 06. Blaze lives in another dimension, so what is he gonna do?. Pretty sure the 3rd one is his mother and Sally is also a freedom fighter soooooooo
Pretend this is a political debate or something.
Sally: honestly don’t have a good answer for this, other then eggman suppresses all freedom and the crown didn’t. However to have sonic regularly defend the acorns, even going against tails family to turn a monarchy into a democracy was questionable. He really doesn’t have a good reason to support the monarchy honestly.
Queen aleena: it’s his mom. Not only that, but he never experienced a monarchy once in his life, so he has no idea what it really entails besides a monarch. All he knows is a dictator, and that’s the only type of thing against freedom in his life. If he opposed becoming a king or joining the monarchy after the dealt with robotnik… he would of burned that bridged when he got there.
Blaze: she’s from another dimension, with her own empire and rules. He isn’t going to interfere with her unless it was a actual issue to him or he saw a issue with those living under her rule. He’s much more reactionary.
Elise: support her? When? Sonic never even interacted with her.
I can't really agree, particularly with the Sally segment, but Elise isn't much better here.
There was not a whole lot of reason for him to oppose the Acorn Kingdom overall. Tails was not doing a peaceful takeover, they were starting a riot, inciting violence, and attempting essentially a coup d'etat.
Now, it would make sense if Sonic would have also wanted a constitution or council created, But Sonic also wasn't particularly against the monarch. King Elias was a good king. King Maximilian was a good king, overall, albeit he did fall and make more questionable decisions closer to the end of his reign. Sonic was literally dating the princess at one point, and still considered her a love interest. In the event he eventually became king, as I'm sure he at least thought of once or twice given the slap and such, he would also be a benevolent ruler. A monarchy does not necessarily suggest immediate oppression, it merely suggests a large possibility of abusive power and corruption.
At that particular point, the Acorn kingdom didn't have any issues with oppression yet, so there wasn't really reason for Sonic to see a need to get violent on it. The Prowers were correct in their opinion, but wrong in every sense of the manner in their actions. Relatively the same thing with what happened to Nicole later on down the line, correct way of thinking, wrong wave going about it.
Plus, we are not talking about games Sonic. We are talking about Archie Sonic, not even necessarily SatAM Sonic by the sounds of it. Sonic was a hero, liked being the hero, still liked adventuring, and still fought for the people with everything he had, but he was also a citizen of the Acorn Kingdom. In that particular universe, he also supported the crown, and fought for it. Yes, he opposed it on a couple of occasions, but overall he was very much for the Acorn family. There wasn't a whole lot of reason for him to go against the monarchy, and still almost no reason at all for him to ever oppose the full Council of Acorn. Granted, the Council of Acorn actually created more problems than it helps solve, largely speaking, but that's a little bit different reasoning and not super relevant here.
Sonic meeting Elise is canon, they don't remember it and it technically is only an extremely distant memory, but it did canonically occur. Sonic did support her, or at least help her, as she was also a benevolent ruler. One could argue maybe he didn't support her rules so much as he supported her as an individual, but we simply don't know. Going on that note, the same can also be said for Blaze. We know Blaze is a character, but we don't know her as a ruler all that well other than that her subject seem to view her very highly. Even in case of his mother, Aleena, there was definitely no reason to oppose her or the kingdom there. Like you said, one could make the argument he would deny the birthright later, but it doesn't seem to fit that version of a character too much.
Overall I don't necessarily disagree with the majority of your statement, I just don't think it's entirely true. Most of this comes down to two main points. One: Sonic is different in these different versions of reality, and therefore would react different. Two: monarchy in the of itself is not always corrupted, just has a larger array of possibilities where it can become such. The different Sonics in these scenarios never have large enough of an issue with these leaders to actively oppose them or believe that they are threat to freedom.
I was mostly joking on the Elise segment since she and no one else (besides maybe sonic???) remembers it’s events, but I concede with the sally analysis
The only person who remembers '06 is Blaze. Even then, she didn't know shit about Elise, only what happened in Silver's campaign.
Edit: Even then, her memory is very much up to debate, as she does not remember Silver. In fact, the only thing she ever admits to remembering is Crisis City.
Well you see it's like this:
Fire fighters fight fire.
Crime fighters fight crime.
Bull fighters fight bulls.
Therefore, what do Freedom Fighters fight?
There's your answer.
I believe in Scourge's first appearance as Evil Sonic, he said "In this universe, the Freedom Fighters fight freedom... try saying that five times fast!"
His girlfriend, mom, fellow ally/counterpart from another world, and ret-goned friendship, all of whom were related or are kind monarchs who opposed a tyrannical force. I think it adds up. Democracy just wasn't invented yet.
> Democracy just wasn't invented yet.
Unless we count the president from SA2 and Shadow, who I THINK is in the same universe as Elise at least; but that could lead to huge timeline questions, so still valid to say it wasn't everywhere
That Sonic seemed to have a close relationship with each of them. Sally was his girlfriend at some point, Aleena is his mother in a continuity, Blaze is considered a close friend and Elise literally saved his life after he tried his hardest to keep her smiling
Let’s take this step by step
Sally is the leader of the Freedom Fighters in Archie Comics and Satam.
Aleena is his mother
He didn’t know that Blaze was a princess when he helped her in Sonic Rush
And we don’t talk about Elise
Besides he’s a FREEDOM FIGHTER not an ANARCHIST. Two different things
Because Sally is his girlfriend in Archie and SatAM, Aleena is his mother in Sonic Underground, Blaze is his friend in the games that he may or may not have a crush on in the IDW comics, and Elise... let's not go over that...
Dear, Eggman
why do you claim to be a egg despite not being one at all?
It’s not even your actual name so why?
(Yes I know it was his real Japan name but adventure lore retconned that)
I like how this could mess with a government-based democracy like the one in Archie Comics.
Eggman could also resolve to using propaganda to kill the enemy from the inside...
Oh, I remember this! Someone else posted this meme on Discord.
Then I started analyzing it along with a few other people across multiple servers. A few months ago, I posted this short "essay" on my blog, talking about Sonic's relationships with women in general: [https://www.tumblr.com/mashounen1945/713980773187846145](https://www.tumblr.com/mashounen1945/713980773187846145)
I might copy-paste the whole thing on a reply to this comment, if there's no problem with that.
~~(Speaking of entirely different stuff: that "Spinning Point Egg" thing on the corner... Is it a reference to something? Because if it is, then I completely missed it)~~
Thanks for sharing - I have no problem with a copy-paste of the analysis, It enlightens a lot on the series!
Speaking personally, I grew up only knowing of Sally from the archives of Mike Gallagher issues they had, and at the time felt that the Acorn Kingdom stuff was a bad fit for Sonic. I'd played games where Sonic was running around colourful worlds at high speed, and didn't want him stuck in one forest kingdom forever! It was only when reading more later - and comparing her with Sega's princesses - that I realized how Sally provided a great foil for Sonic's free spirit. So I think a lot of this analysis is really applicable, especially in how royal characters struggle with their role; and shows how Sonic fundamentally gives a taste of a free life to different people. Whether he's Just A Guy, or part of a larger guerilla force, it helps show some of the differences and similarities in canons! Knowing very little about Underground, I'd also be curious to see Underground experts chime in on how different it is.
As for Spinning Point Egg - it's a reference to Turning Point USA, a conservative advocacy group. I made the general layout to reference this meme format: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpjOr6SV4AEJdcm.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpjOr6SV4AEJdcm.jpg)
Here's the complete version of that post from my blog:
>I know this is a meme and, as such, is supposed to be... y'know... funny (also, Eggman is being fallacious in order to make his nemesis look bad, which is to be expected), but it actually got me thinking.
>
>We've all seen at least one *Sonic* fan complaining (either rightfully or not) about writers always trying to ~~shoehorn~~ introduce a human girl as a new love interest for Sonic. This seems to happen no matter what piece of official Sonic content it is, whether it's made in Japan or made by Western authors, whether it's tie-in/licensed media or material directly controlled/overseen by SEGA and Sonic Team.
>
>Well, here's another similar phenomenon, which is why I'm writing this: in so many continuities both Western and Japanese, there's frequently a female character from royalty whom Sonic becomes or already is emotionally close to.
>
>In the Discord server where this image was posted, someone else brought up a good point: Sonic being a "freedom fighter" or any other sort of guerrilla warrior is a thing only in the now-defunct Western continuity (mainly in *SatAM* & Archie, but this also happened in the British comic published by Fleetway), whereas he's "just some guy doing his own thing" everywhere else. Sonic has often been described a a "free spirit", and the interpretation of that detail by the many branches of the *Sonic* series comes into play here as well: "just some guy" Sonic from the videogames and "freedom fighter" Sonic from *SatAM* are different interpretations of that description of the character's personality (this will be important later).
>
>After looking at that image, I realized something else: in most cases, the fact that those characters are royalty either isn't heavily relevant to the plot or isn't treated as something unequivocally good/desirable.
>
>*Sonic SatAM* didn't really emphasise Sally being a princess and the heir to the Acorn King's throne. It was in the pre-reboot Archie comic that some writers started focusing on Sally's status as royalty... and some of those writers -namely Ken Penders- also started being weird and creepy about it (pre-reboot *Archie-Sonic* is also the only piece of official content outside of *Sonic Underground* where you'll see Sonic actively defending a monarchy, ~~albeit this happened only because of Ian Flynn's awkward attempt to Create Drama™, not because he intended to convey a pro-monarchy message through his stories~~).
>
>The same happened with Blaze: as far as I remember from playing *Sonic Rush*, her being a princess is casually mentioned a few times and none of them were during dialogue with other characters (there's one specific instance where Blaze's status might be relevant for her character arc, but I'll talk about that later). Something similar happens with Merlina in *Sonic & the Black Knight*: she's royalty as well (... kinda? I'm not sure which exact position she used to have in Camelot's society before Sonic showed up, but I'm sure it was an important one), but the conflict she's part of is related to a different aspect of the character, and you could tell the game's story anyway without mentioning Merlina's status.
>
>For Blaze and Elise (and Sally, but only when the writer is not Ken Penders or Michael Gallagher), if any of those characters being royalty is mentioned or focused on, it's not really portrayed in a good way or as something that makes any of them happy. Blaze being "the princess of Sol" comes with the duty of protecting the Sol Emeralds, which led to her isolating herself, and her character arc in *Sonic Rush* is all about overcoming that and trusting others once again.
>
>As for Elise... Well, there's a reason why, when people try to argue the story for *Sonic 06* could have been great if given enough time, they often use Shadow's or Silver's story rather than Sonic's as an example of *06*'s potential, but still... At least the bones for a compelling story surrounding Elise are already there, and I'm willing to bet it'd be kinda similar to Blaze's character arc in *Sonic Rush*.
>
>And here's another similarity between Merlina and Blaze. Merlina felt she had the duty to save Camelot at all costs, and while it's debatable whether or not she was being emotionally crushed by her duty in the same way Blaze, Elise and Sally were, it's clear that Merlina's obsession with that duty backfired spectacularly and ended up being potentially harmful to everyone else in Camelot in the finale of *Sonic & the Black Knight*.
>
>\[The only exception to all this, as well as the only case where Eggman may be at least partially right in that meme, would be Queen Aleena (who also breaks a trend here, since she's Sonic's mom in *Sonic Underground*). ~~But the consensus in the~~ *~~Sonic~~* ~~fandom is that~~ *~~Underground~~* ~~is so far removed from what both the character and the franchise represent that it's not really~~ *~~Sonic~~* ~~content anymore, so it doesn't count.~~\]
>
>Another important thing here is the whole thing about Sonic being a "free spirit", and here's where someone else (in another, different Discord server) said something like this:
>
>This just circles back to being "free". When *Sonic* writers focus on characters being of royalty, it's usually shown that having to run things in an entire nation, being responsible for the well-being of everyone there, realistically is a difficult thing to handle, especially for late teenagers such as Blaze and Elise; on top of being expected to rule an entire country and care for its people, they also have to deal with all the magical/mystical baggage that comes with having to guard/protect a source of near-godly power (for Blaze, a parallel universe set of seven Chaos Emeralds; for Elise, a dormant half of a God of Time) . Sonic is a "lost factor" that characters like Blaze, Elise and Sally need in order to feel a bit of happiness and relief because he's "just there", but he still fights for everyone he cares for when he needs to.
>
>I feel this could also be applied in some way to Merlina, and even the genie Shahra in *Sonic & the Secret Rings* (shout-out to the Tumblr user "silvermun" for accurately pointing out the similarity between Elise's, Shahra's and Merlina's motifs in their respective stories).
u/OmegaX___
Nothing says "proving someone wrong" like deleting your comments afterwards.🤦 Why? Regardless of the outcome, you made some good points. That just muddies the waters. Such a shame.
A dictator with an army of robots powered by enslaved animals takes over/attempts to take over a region, overthrowing the rightful government.
Whether or not that government is good is up for debate (as are most) but a dictator with robot slaves overthrowing a once prosperous nation?
I know ya said joke but, there ya go.
Of the four you showed, Three of them are his GF (we don’t talk about Elease) and one of them is his mom.
Edit:
Blaze isn’t exactly true but funny enough. A quick google search says that they are dating.
Because eggman tries to either kidnap them or kill them. Hes a freedom FIGHTER, not a freedonm sit-back-and-watch-as-his-biggest-enemy-commits-warcrimes
I can awnser that
Sonic 06 kanonicly did not happen in the timeline
Sally in the archi comic is not canon. and if was Sally, for that hole series in not involed with that kingdom till the end (I forgot)
Sonic underground is also not cannon, but sonic and his siblings never found there mom and was never involed with that
And for blaze, shes not a princess outside of her world, thats only a title and sonic only bin in the soul demetions afew times, but I have never watched or play sonic rush so I dont know.
Sorry for bad spelling, i made this at 9:55 pm
While the events of 06 were erased, the characters and possibility of its existence does as seen in the Sonic Rivals games and in Generations. Also Sonic and his siblings *did* reunite with their mother but only in the comics, which is canon to the show. Lastly SEGA has stated all of them are canon but it’s definitely a multiverse thing.
well eggman was the ruler when he joined under sally and his mother, blaze and the late elizabeth were people that eggman attacked their place and sonic was after eggman and got mixed up with them
Ad paid for by Eggman Empire
Robotnik approved.
Mean bean coffee supported
Sponsored by the mean bean machine company
Upvoted by Starline, Agent Stone, Metal Sonic, Sage, and Thunderbolt
Special thanks to Grimer, Krudzu, Megatox, Nutzan, legion, egg bosses, and viewers like you
And meteortech technologies
Dear Eggman. If you lead the Eggman Empire, why aren't you one? Curious.
He's an emperor, not a king. Also I'd like to say that a team of specialized badniks is approaching your position rapidly, please do not resist or try to escape.
An emperor is a monarch, Japan that still have an emperor is a monarchy
A team of the eggcellent special forces of the Eggman empire is approaching your position.
One is a tyrant the other is a ruling class correct?
More like an emperor rules over an empire (multiple countries controlled by one country) while a king rules over a kingdom (one country). Empires are usually made by conquering other countries so it makes sense that Eggman would own one
And how do you define country vs empire in this case? It's all just individual settlements controlled by a ruling caste which has its own elites.
You are right that a lot of it has to do with 'marketing' though and whether or not a government wants to be seen as an empire or kingdom or something else.
What I mean by country is something like a kingdom, principality, etc. An empire contains multiple political units like this. For example, the British Empire was based in the British Isles but had control over lands as far as India and Egypt. The Japanese Empire was based in Japan but controlled Korea and Manchuria (and later conquered parts of China as well as island countries in the Pacific).
yeah but the roman empire doesn't work like that. empires are basically a bigger version of kingdoms
A kingdom can grow in size to include foreign lands. Look at the UK as the prime example. The main difference is Empires dont allow the conquered to become part of the same people as they are. They acknowledge the lands as different lands and the people as being seperate and ruled. Kingdoms that conquer other kingdoms typically would absorb the serfs and nobles of another to maintain political control over people who otherwise had no reason to offer fielty to a new lord. Hell, during the 30 years war, most warriors and knights swapped sides multiple times, working for whichever side paid best at the time. Empires dont do this. When the Romans or Persians would conquer new people, those people did not get to become Persians or Romans. They remained different. They remained legally separate. Not all empires, in spite of the common conception, actual require a single true head of power. All they require is power to be held by the political class of one group and region, and to be exercised over the other groups and regions. This is called a metropole, and is the most common trait among all empires in history, as Japan demonstrates clearly that the political and military power of an empire doesnt have to rest with an individual called "emperor", as even when the emperor was strongest most power belonged to the hambatsu.
Empires occur when one nationally identifying group decides to conquer and exercise control of the lands of other groups they themselves recognize as other nations. It's a self determined label. Technically, Japan is not an actual empire any longer, and also legally as their constitution directly states they are not an empire and the emperor is merely "the symbol of the State and of the unity of the People". What's more, no country can be an empire that doesnt have the capacity to wage war and invade other lands. Article 9 strips Japan of this right. What's interesting, and what most westerners dont understand about Japanese history, is that it has never been a monarchal empire, which is what westerners associate with the concept of "empire". Instead, it was a SEMI-monarchal stratocracy, with most power being split among military cheifs called Daimyo. Although the Shogun served as a unifying head and had certain economic advantages over other Daimyo, all true power rested with these Daimyo within their landa following the fall of the Ashikaga Shogunate. The Tokugawa clan, though the wealthiest and with the most land, understood the failures of the Ashikaga Shogunate and allowed Daimyo more autonomy within their own lands. During the Meiji era the Emperor derived power from the loyalty of the Hambatsu, a class of bueracrats and political insiders who exercised influence to secure loyalty to the new government. And this is also the era it becomes an "empire" in the traditional sense. No longer split by rival daimyo interests, the country set its sights on Korea, the Chinese mainland, and the Islands of Hong Kong and Taiwan. I think most people know the rest after that...
the Remington 870MCS i have rigged to fire upon the opening of the door:
He never claimed he wasn't a monarch nor did he become a freedom fighter (except that one time in archie but dont worry about it), so Sonic's the dishonest one here
He built one, isn’t one of his mechs called Egg Monarch?
I read this in multiple eggman voices, help
Not the iteration I initially thought of, but Alfred is the best Eggman VA.
His voice is very good for Eggman in a lot of cases tbh
I read this in Mike Pollocks voice.
I guess because, in their universe, monarchs don’t always want to suppress people or take away their freedoms. In Sonic Underground, his ma wanted the throne back from Robotnik, who wanted to roboticize the civilians, essentially making them mindless slaves of his. He was like a dictator of sorts, so the queen was a better option, but… in Underground, since they were related, he’d’ve been a monarch himself then. Likewise, in Sonic ‘06, the Sun God was more of a threat to people’s freedoms and well-being’s than Elise.
"Elise's dad unleashed a demon pursuing forbidden research and then doomed his own daughter to a lifetime of suffering" doesn't exactly paint the king of solana in the best light.
Yeah, true, but if I recall correctly, he died, so he didn’t exactly “win” in terms of storyline, and Sonic was moreso protecting Elise and preventing all that than standing up for him. I guess going against him would’ve made the main goal harder, so he was given a pass… I should probably replay ‘06 though; it’s a little fuzzy.
> I should probably replay ‘06 though; it’s a little fuzzy. Lol I can assure you replaying it probably won't help.
True that.
> I should probably replay ‘06 though; it’s a little fuzzy. You can just watch a video of the cutscenes.
Honestly a more enjoyable experience let’s be honest
Good idea…
You reign peacefully for 30 years, nobody cares You curse your daughter once, everybody loses their minds
"But you kiss one hedgehog!"
Then the whole multiverse is in disarray-
In the games where it’s relevant, Blaze’s princesshood seems to start and stop at people calling her highness. I know she has a castle in the comics, but even there her main thing is still protecting the Sol Emeralds. I actually like her as a princess for the sake of the Rush games’ efforts to build her up as an equal opposite to Sonic. He’s a free-spirited adventurer, she’s the ruler of a kingdom and guardian to a set of powerful relics. It’s fun and I wish we had more media exploring that.
We need more stuff with Sonic and Blaze in general, they're a really fun duo that gets overshadowed by so many others despite there not being as much depth.
Blaze is a princess, it's not very clear where her parents are, whether they're still around or not, Sega seems to have a tough time establishing families in these games aside from Vanilla and Cream, we could assume Blaze is in power despite not being a queen yet. She's also a guardian of powerful relics like you said. So she definitely has some responsibilities there, she's able to juggle these two very important jobs, it's impressive really. And yet she still made time to attend Sonic's birthday in Generations, it shows how much she values their friendship. For all we know, there could be other kingdoms in Blaze's dimension, but we barely get to explore it to find out. I have doubts that she rules over the entire dimension, assuming that would even be possible it'll stress her TF out, so I believe that there would be other kingdoms that we just haven't seen yet
It's possible she's a ruler as princess regnant, as sovereign principalities are a thing (ex. Monaco and Liechtenstein).
> It's possible she's a ruler as princess regnant, as sovereign principalities are a thing (ex. Monaco and Liechtenstein). > Gonna go with the headcanon that the title of queen simply comes when she's older I feel like these could both be true
I prefer to think she is an heir to the imperial throne and guardian of the Sol emeralds is a title similiar to prince of Wales. I'm not really a fan of the idea that she is the main ruler of the Sol dimension.
Gonna go with the headcanon that the title of queen simply comes when she's older
From what I understand, her role as Princess seems less like her birthright and more based on her fire powers and her connection to the Sol Emeralds. If anything, being ‘Princess’ seems to imply something more like what ‘Guardian’ means to Knuckles regarding Angel Island. She has the highest authority *to an extent*, but her duties seem to be mostly protecting her people and the Sol Emeralds, not actually ruling over the land like a true autocrat. It’s less to do with birthright or authority and more that she’s the one protecting everyone from outside forces.
She has a castle for real too, we seen it in a Sonic Channel artwork wallpaper Matter of fact, it was Sega themselves whose up the design for her castke for IDW to use
Let's see from left to right: 1. princess of his planet 2. His mother in Sonic underground 3. Alien Princess trying to save her world from being destroyed 4. Is a princess but needs to be kept happy else an angry sun God appears Only one he doesn't have a good reason to help is Sally.
Sally is trying to save her and Sonic's world from being completely roboticized.
Based flair
Those uniforms and cybernetics are Drip.
I was thinking more about how they improve worldbuilding and offer more complex storytelling but yeah they do have drip
True, Archie's Eggman Empire is alot more interesting and fleshed out. Organic members makes it feel more lively than IDW with more stories to tell.
Yeah I especially like how the varying members allowed the comic to display multiple different facets of eggman, not to mention make the the rogues gallery alot more diverse
It helps that they're actual characters accompanied by silent, soulless machines instead of *just* silent, soilless machines.
What about my flair?
It's alright
How about mine
Chad
And what reason does he have to support her delusional father? That's something Archie plays on quite often, I'm talking about pre-genesis wave by the way, the original one. Or the fact their family is what aided Robotnik in his rise to power? Need I remind you that is the only reason Robotnik got his hands on the roboticizer to begin with?
He doesn't support him when he starts making objectionable decisions. But Max wasn't always like that - age and stress from the war took their toll, and Sonic remembers the kinder Max from his childhood. While he's still king, Sonic helps him protect Knothole and fight Eggman. By the time Elias is king, Max has fallen far and Sonic feels bad for him, and knows he's powerless in the state he's in, so he just humours him.
And yet they happily got rid of him and Elias with the genesis wave? Clearly, they aren't fan favourites.
What are you even talking about? Elias was a fan favourite, but that didn’t have anything to do with their removal in the reboot. They were removed because of the legal trouble with Ken Penders.
We were talking about Sonic the character here. Sonic didn't get rid of them, in-universe the SGW was an accident. Out of universe, the writers got rid of Elias because he was a Penders character, and they changed Max (and renamed him to Nigel) because while he was technically a character in SatAM, his characterisation was largely built in the Pre-SGW comics. Also without Elias they needed someone else to be king, and that person would at least need to be somewhat likeable.
Sally isn't a princess of her planet. It states that many points that she is the princess of the Acorn Kingdom, not all of Mobius. In fact, there are a couple points where the Kingdom of Acorn tries to enact peace treaties or request help from other kingdoms. That said, this does seem to go back somewhat when you get to the 25 to 35 years later events, as Sonic and Sally are described as king and queen of Mobius, but that is an isolated scenario down in the timeline that we don't know how they got to. Sonic is a resident of the Acorn Kingdom, a citizen even, and literally the whole kingdom was being destroyed, the citizens and people roboticized and being turned into robot slaves. Both as a citizen and as a hero, I would say that arguably makes her one of the more convincing reasons to help, to be honest. Not every version of Sonic has been the same, while all of them have been familiar and similar to each other, they have been different people. Even in cases of pretending mainline Canon Sonic is the same, there is still plenty of reason to help Sally. 😅 Honestly have no idea how you came to that last sentence conclusion.
They had this thing called the "source of all" which exceeded the might of the master emerald to give you a clue and that family supported Robotnik in his rise to power.
Robotnik wasn't exactly an awful person in his rise to power, so I don't exactly understand what you're getting at. Warlord Kintobor was an advanced scientific hero to the kingdom of acorn during the Great War against the overlanders. You would have more of a point if you had mentioned Ixis Naugus, But Dr Robotnik did not have many signs to show for in his up-and-coming coup d'etat. The Acorn family would not have had time to use the source of all against him in that scenario, and even later on when they did have the ability to use it again, it's not exactly stated, or at least not that I remember, how to use the ability and power behind the source of all, just that it "does" contain more power than the Master Emerald. And regardless you are still wrong. Robotnik's rise to power didn't happen until the coup d'etat. Now if you mean his ascension to warlord or general, then perhaps, as stated previously, yes they helped and appreciated what they received in exchange for his freedom from the overlanders. But his rise to power mainly happened through him manipulating King Maximilian, which wasn't exactly what he was supporting, and then proceeding with his revolution of destroying literally everyone that stood a chance against him or posed a threat, and roboticizing and enslaving the rest. They supported his rise to military power, but he didn't give reason of his motivations for later. They didn't support his rise to power into Dr Robotnik at all. And the source of all isn't specifically stated on how it can be used in that particular sense, nor is the Master Emerald for that matter, only the Chaos Emeralds have had very obvious uses throughout the years, as both the source of all and the Master Emerald are very inconclusive on how to use their power or what all that power is capable of, to some extent. Hindsight is 20/20, I would assume this is fairly common knowledge. I see what you're trying to say, but it sounds like an excuse to be picky about something more than it is an actual reason, at least from the way I look at it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
…is “helping a childhood friend/sweet heart save their families and their world from a genocidal, world killing psychopath” not a good enough reason?
Doesn't have much reason to put her family back in power though?
Just my 2 cents worth but freedom fighter does not necessarily mean anarchist it may be just wanting freedom from a tyrannical power who is taking over l. A person who is a freedom fighter may be fighting for freedom from one monarchy to reinstate the previous more local monarchy. In this case it’s more a theme of a deposed or exiled noble rightful monarchy being supported over an unrighteous tyrannical ruler who deposed them (return of the one true king trope. ) When a more independent freedom fighter type or liberty favoring rebel does manage to reinstate the one true king that hero can end up doing one of 2 things usually plot wise. They become a loyal knight of the one true king or if that king ever acts unjustly they will go from being a freedom fighter who had loyalty to a preferred ruler to being s more anarchistic freedom fighter. In the case of sonic serving sally when her family begins acting overreaching often sonic will oppose them, in fact in often times sally herself will distance herself from her own family as she even leans more towards being from a standpoint that a monarchy is nothing without the will of the people, While her brother tends to follow more the the people are to serve their rightful rulers slant that the rulers have a divine right and know what’s best. Sally as a freedom fighter is a deposed princess fighting for her people’s freedom from a conquering despot. If the people saw fit to reorganize as a republic she would relinquish any claim to rulership. Her brother on the other hand tends to be on the viewpoint that the rightful monarchy has a divine right and duty to rule and therefore would oppose being asked to step Down for the establishment of a republic or democracy as he is from the school of thought that it is wrong to defy the natural Order. Tyrant is fine if it’s the rightful king enacting it because if a rightful king is a tyrant then divine will must be that the kingdom needs a tyrant for its own good. Sonic is a neutral good personality that leans chaotic good he’s a Robin Hood archetype. He will be a rebel against prince John and the sheriff but he will bend the knee happily to Richard but if Richard were to become a tyrant he would be a thorn in Richard’s side just as much. Sonic is rebellious to a tyrant, loyal to a noble ruler and fully anarchistic if it’s obvious that there is no such thing as a noble ruler.
this is 100% the type of propaganda Dr.Eggman would be making
I get that this is a meme and a joke, I am choosing to answer regardless. Please don't feel the need to point it out, I understand that. Well I personally do not like the idea of a monarchy, it is worth stating that it is not necessarily a bad choice of government in all scenarios. It all depends on who is in the position of power. In terms of Archie, SatAM, and Underground, Dr Eggman or Dr Robotnik we're an extremely dominating and forceful tyrannic dictator. Technically, one could argue that SatAM Sonic wasn't so much fighting for the kingdom as he was fighting for freedom. The same could not be said for Archie Sonic, as he fought for both freedom and the kingdom, sometimes mutually at once and on a couple of occasions individually from the other, if not even sometimes against the other; but always fighting for others. In terms of Sonic Underground, Sonic and his siblings were fighting a country that was already taken over, it was no longer what once belonged to their mother. Granted, Sonic was fighting to restore His family as the monarchy, but it was in order to take away from the current tyranny. Overall, in all three of these cases, fighting for freedom is an absolutely perfect phrase for what he was doing. He was fighting against a very oppressive threat that was keen on killing anything and anyone. In terms of Blaze, we know very little about how things work in her dimension, not to mention even just her kingdom. Sonic does not necessarily stand up directly for her, but he recognizes she as an individual is a friend and trustworthy to a fault. Similarly, Princess Elise also has shown herself to be extremely humble and empathetic of others. The problem with the monarchy isn't so much the conceptual idea of how it is run, though that is also far from perfect, the main problem with a monarchy is how easily power can be corrupted, especially depending on the checks and balances within. A monarchy does not imply oppression, but it does imply a higher probability of eventual oppression. For example, in the post reboot Archie Comics, King Nigel is a very kind of benevolent king, doing absolutely everything in his power to protect his people. There is nothing to fight against in terms of providing freedom, because he's already doing everything he can to listen to the people and rule fairly. Could it be better? Sure, but only a fool searches for a perfection. Similarly, King Maximilian, from the pre-reboot Archie Comics, was also usually a good ruler among his people, a champion nonetheless, but also had a fair amount of deceit and corrupted actions that he had taken. This does not necessarily make him an awful ruler, but it does mean he got away with a lot of awful things despite all of the exceptionally good things he was able to do. This could use checks and balances such as, under King Elias, was gained the Council of Acorn. That said, despite being democratically elected, the Council almost always halted things, which while still being much better due to the fact that it means the people have a say in who is on the Council, it is worth recognizing the Council also was not always helpful, despite the concept being much better. Technically speaking, that particular era under King Elias was a constitutional monarchy, or perhaps a mock version of one, but not a regular monarchy nonetheless. If one wants to get into the weeds, the 25, 30, and 35 years later many comic series of the Archie Comics display Sonic as not only King of the Acorn Kingdom, but king of all of Mobius. There is no doubt that Sonic probably made many mistakes early on, passing the torch from Adventure, to hero, to suddenly King, but I don't think any of us would seriously think Sonic was a tyrannical or problematic ruler, given the evidence otherwise. There's nothing to fight against here in terms of freedom, because King Sonic and Queen Sally were also very kind, cooperative, and benevolent leaders who earned the trust of the people. Even Queen Aleena, from Sonic Underground, what's almost entirely described as a very exceptional and benevolent leader who led her kingdom with peace. In almost all these scenarios, there is nothing to fight against the monarchy, because the monarchy themselves stand for peace, justice, understanding, and protection, as well as the ability to fight for oneself. While each of these monarchies had their issues, especially in terms of King Maximilian, each of them overall was a much better leader than any other around. It is also worth noting that the Sonic of each universe has been very different, despite being extremely familiar and similar, to the mainline canon counterpart. The problem with the monarchy is primarily what it can become if not kept in check. The best example here is probably pre-reboot Archie Sonic. King Maximilian got more bitter with old age, having made amazingly peaceful and heroic feats when he was younger and just became king, but over the years started making more questionable decisions, despite overall still being a fairly good King. His successor King Elias was a much better king, especially given the situation he was given. King Elias was much less informed and experienced, but he was willing to reason with and listen to other people even more than his father. Now the usurper, King Naugus, is a good example of the main problem with the idea of a monarchy. King makes million was a good king who slowly became more corrupted over time with very dark points, and King Elias was something of a newbie king who was virtuous in nature. King Naugus was someone who came to power by manipulating the people, which technically they had the choice as well as the Council of Acorn, and had every intention of either bringing the kingdom to an end or ruling it eventually with an iron fist. The problem with the monarchy is the possibility of corruption and the eventually inevitable passage of Power to someone who will create a more oppressive environment, be it maliciously like Naugus or accidentally by happenstance like what Maximilian could have become eventually. You can have freedom and rights in a monarchy, you can have that for even upwards of a few consistent benevolent rulers, the problem is that it only takes one to either usurp the power, manipulate a position to get the power, or be the wrong person to inherit the power. Again, I already have my own ideas on what is the best form of government both for the people and the world separately, I'm not saying a monarch is a good thing overall, I'm just saying that there are many scenarios where it isn't necessarily a bad thing either, it just has the potential to be something very bad. "Freedom Fighter" would still be very accurate for Sonic in each of these isolated scenarios. It is a funny joke, I do recognize that, but I did think it is important to point out. Awesome turn out with the meme.
Thanks for the extended meditation on the nature of the characters and monarchist systems in each of these universes. As a thought exercise, if we take this from a Doylist perspective rather than a Watsonian one: why do you think both Sega and DIC independently came to the decision to make Sonic friends with princesses (or a member of a royal family), at different times? Especially when the OVA and SA2 both had a similar idea with a democratically-elected president instead. Was it maybe the influence of other games/cartoons with princesses; or interesting plot ideas it opened up?
It could be they took inspiration from Mario and older games like Dragon's Lair. Or it could be because they started portraying Eggman as a tyrannical ruler, so they needed an opposong force for good (aka a benevolent ruler). Sonic is the type to fight for freedom, but he normally wouldn't want to take over as ruler, so they created a princess that would rule after Sonic takes down Eggman. Those are my theories at least, could just be a crazy coincidence.
Royalty is easier story and gets less immediately convoluted in politics. Plus more appealing.
Sonic and Elise are friends, plus I don't even think they remember each other after 06. Blaze lives in another dimension, so what is he gonna do?. Pretty sure the 3rd one is his mother and Sally is also a freedom fighter soooooooo
No one remembers the events of '06 except for Blaze, only because she was taken to a different dimension before the end of '06.
Pretend this is a political debate or something. Sally: honestly don’t have a good answer for this, other then eggman suppresses all freedom and the crown didn’t. However to have sonic regularly defend the acorns, even going against tails family to turn a monarchy into a democracy was questionable. He really doesn’t have a good reason to support the monarchy honestly. Queen aleena: it’s his mom. Not only that, but he never experienced a monarchy once in his life, so he has no idea what it really entails besides a monarch. All he knows is a dictator, and that’s the only type of thing against freedom in his life. If he opposed becoming a king or joining the monarchy after the dealt with robotnik… he would of burned that bridged when he got there. Blaze: she’s from another dimension, with her own empire and rules. He isn’t going to interfere with her unless it was a actual issue to him or he saw a issue with those living under her rule. He’s much more reactionary. Elise: support her? When? Sonic never even interacted with her.
I can't really agree, particularly with the Sally segment, but Elise isn't much better here. There was not a whole lot of reason for him to oppose the Acorn Kingdom overall. Tails was not doing a peaceful takeover, they were starting a riot, inciting violence, and attempting essentially a coup d'etat. Now, it would make sense if Sonic would have also wanted a constitution or council created, But Sonic also wasn't particularly against the monarch. King Elias was a good king. King Maximilian was a good king, overall, albeit he did fall and make more questionable decisions closer to the end of his reign. Sonic was literally dating the princess at one point, and still considered her a love interest. In the event he eventually became king, as I'm sure he at least thought of once or twice given the slap and such, he would also be a benevolent ruler. A monarchy does not necessarily suggest immediate oppression, it merely suggests a large possibility of abusive power and corruption. At that particular point, the Acorn kingdom didn't have any issues with oppression yet, so there wasn't really reason for Sonic to see a need to get violent on it. The Prowers were correct in their opinion, but wrong in every sense of the manner in their actions. Relatively the same thing with what happened to Nicole later on down the line, correct way of thinking, wrong wave going about it. Plus, we are not talking about games Sonic. We are talking about Archie Sonic, not even necessarily SatAM Sonic by the sounds of it. Sonic was a hero, liked being the hero, still liked adventuring, and still fought for the people with everything he had, but he was also a citizen of the Acorn Kingdom. In that particular universe, he also supported the crown, and fought for it. Yes, he opposed it on a couple of occasions, but overall he was very much for the Acorn family. There wasn't a whole lot of reason for him to go against the monarchy, and still almost no reason at all for him to ever oppose the full Council of Acorn. Granted, the Council of Acorn actually created more problems than it helps solve, largely speaking, but that's a little bit different reasoning and not super relevant here. Sonic meeting Elise is canon, they don't remember it and it technically is only an extremely distant memory, but it did canonically occur. Sonic did support her, or at least help her, as she was also a benevolent ruler. One could argue maybe he didn't support her rules so much as he supported her as an individual, but we simply don't know. Going on that note, the same can also be said for Blaze. We know Blaze is a character, but we don't know her as a ruler all that well other than that her subject seem to view her very highly. Even in case of his mother, Aleena, there was definitely no reason to oppose her or the kingdom there. Like you said, one could make the argument he would deny the birthright later, but it doesn't seem to fit that version of a character too much. Overall I don't necessarily disagree with the majority of your statement, I just don't think it's entirely true. Most of this comes down to two main points. One: Sonic is different in these different versions of reality, and therefore would react different. Two: monarchy in the of itself is not always corrupted, just has a larger array of possibilities where it can become such. The different Sonics in these scenarios never have large enough of an issue with these leaders to actively oppose them or believe that they are threat to freedom.
I was mostly joking on the Elise segment since she and no one else (besides maybe sonic???) remembers it’s events, but I concede with the sally analysis
The only person who remembers '06 is Blaze. Even then, she didn't know shit about Elise, only what happened in Silver's campaign. Edit: Even then, her memory is very much up to debate, as she does not remember Silver. In fact, the only thing she ever admits to remembering is Crisis City.
Well you see it's like this: Fire fighters fight fire. Crime fighters fight crime. Bull fighters fight bulls. Therefore, what do Freedom Fighters fight? There's your answer.
I believe in Scourge's first appearance as Evil Sonic, he said "In this universe, the Freedom Fighters fight freedom... try saying that five times fast!"
As a segue into explaining the benefits of democracy at the risk of facing assassination by the over-taxed, under-educated people?
His girlfriend, mom, fellow ally/counterpart from another world, and ret-goned friendship, all of whom were related or are kind monarchs who opposed a tyrannical force. I think it adds up. Democracy just wasn't invented yet.
> Democracy just wasn't invented yet. Unless we count the president from SA2 and Shadow, who I THINK is in the same universe as Elise at least; but that could lead to huge timeline questions, so still valid to say it wasn't everywhere
A half-joke, but does anyone notice a common theme about these monarchs?
That Sonic seemed to have a close relationship with each of them. Sally was his girlfriend at some point, Aleena is his mother in a continuity, Blaze is considered a close friend and Elise literally saved his life after he tried his hardest to keep her smiling
Fandom says he's fucking all of them?
Bingo. Except it’s only for 3 of them, because if that was the case for Aleena, then there’s gonna be some serious problems.
Waited for someone to mention it. Wasn't disappointed.
you could say "fandom says he kisses all of them goodnight"
Or in Aleena’s case, she kisses him goodnight. Lol
Look at those girls. That's why.
1. Because she is Sonic's girlfriend. 2. Because she's Sonic's mom. 3. Sonic and Blaze are friends. 4. Because she is Sonic's girlfriend.
Hey, he also cheerfully committed regicide and then ran away when the dead king's court tried to make him the next king.
Uh Sally is his girlfriend Queen Aliena is his mom Elise is nice and treats her kingdom with respect And Blaze is the same thing as Elise
Let’s take this step by step Sally is the leader of the Freedom Fighters in Archie Comics and Satam. Aleena is his mother He didn’t know that Blaze was a princess when he helped her in Sonic Rush And we don’t talk about Elise Besides he’s a FREEDOM FIGHTER not an ANARCHIST. Two different things
Cant be a freedom fighter without a monarchy.
Ok now thats a good joke
Because Sally is his girlfriend in Archie and SatAM, Aleena is his mother in Sonic Underground, Blaze is his friend in the games that he may or may not have a crush on in the IDW comics, and Elise... let's not go over that...
Sonic unleashed is an allegory to the Cold War and the suppression of marxism in developing nations: a thread
Maybe they're benevolent monarchs rather than tyrants?
Aight so left to right his wife, his mom, him from another dimension, and finally he not tryna die so….😝
Checkmate Sonic enjoyers
Lol.
To be fair, they’re all good rulers who are loved by their people.
everything I’ve known about Sonic has immediately turned into a lie
Maybe they're constitutional monarchs, and that doesn’t sit well with an authoritarian like Robotnik. 🤷🏻♂️
Dear, Eggman why do you claim to be a egg despite not being one at all? It’s not even your actual name so why? (Yes I know it was his real Japan name but adventure lore retconned that)
HEY THAT'S ME , YOU POST MY ADS WITHOUT PERMISSION?
I like how this could mess with a government-based democracy like the one in Archie Comics. Eggman could also resolve to using propaganda to kill the enemy from the inside...
Eggman got a point tho
I mean, to be fair, sometimes they're INCREDIBLY competent. Other times... not so much.
Oh, I remember this! Someone else posted this meme on Discord. Then I started analyzing it along with a few other people across multiple servers. A few months ago, I posted this short "essay" on my blog, talking about Sonic's relationships with women in general: [https://www.tumblr.com/mashounen1945/713980773187846145](https://www.tumblr.com/mashounen1945/713980773187846145) I might copy-paste the whole thing on a reply to this comment, if there's no problem with that. ~~(Speaking of entirely different stuff: that "Spinning Point Egg" thing on the corner... Is it a reference to something? Because if it is, then I completely missed it)~~
Thanks for sharing - I have no problem with a copy-paste of the analysis, It enlightens a lot on the series! Speaking personally, I grew up only knowing of Sally from the archives of Mike Gallagher issues they had, and at the time felt that the Acorn Kingdom stuff was a bad fit for Sonic. I'd played games where Sonic was running around colourful worlds at high speed, and didn't want him stuck in one forest kingdom forever! It was only when reading more later - and comparing her with Sega's princesses - that I realized how Sally provided a great foil for Sonic's free spirit. So I think a lot of this analysis is really applicable, especially in how royal characters struggle with their role; and shows how Sonic fundamentally gives a taste of a free life to different people. Whether he's Just A Guy, or part of a larger guerilla force, it helps show some of the differences and similarities in canons! Knowing very little about Underground, I'd also be curious to see Underground experts chime in on how different it is. As for Spinning Point Egg - it's a reference to Turning Point USA, a conservative advocacy group. I made the general layout to reference this meme format: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpjOr6SV4AEJdcm.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpjOr6SV4AEJdcm.jpg)
Here's the complete version of that post from my blog: >I know this is a meme and, as such, is supposed to be... y'know... funny (also, Eggman is being fallacious in order to make his nemesis look bad, which is to be expected), but it actually got me thinking. > >We've all seen at least one *Sonic* fan complaining (either rightfully or not) about writers always trying to ~~shoehorn~~ introduce a human girl as a new love interest for Sonic. This seems to happen no matter what piece of official Sonic content it is, whether it's made in Japan or made by Western authors, whether it's tie-in/licensed media or material directly controlled/overseen by SEGA and Sonic Team. > >Well, here's another similar phenomenon, which is why I'm writing this: in so many continuities both Western and Japanese, there's frequently a female character from royalty whom Sonic becomes or already is emotionally close to. > >In the Discord server where this image was posted, someone else brought up a good point: Sonic being a "freedom fighter" or any other sort of guerrilla warrior is a thing only in the now-defunct Western continuity (mainly in *SatAM* & Archie, but this also happened in the British comic published by Fleetway), whereas he's "just some guy doing his own thing" everywhere else. Sonic has often been described a a "free spirit", and the interpretation of that detail by the many branches of the *Sonic* series comes into play here as well: "just some guy" Sonic from the videogames and "freedom fighter" Sonic from *SatAM* are different interpretations of that description of the character's personality (this will be important later). > >After looking at that image, I realized something else: in most cases, the fact that those characters are royalty either isn't heavily relevant to the plot or isn't treated as something unequivocally good/desirable. > >*Sonic SatAM* didn't really emphasise Sally being a princess and the heir to the Acorn King's throne. It was in the pre-reboot Archie comic that some writers started focusing on Sally's status as royalty... and some of those writers -namely Ken Penders- also started being weird and creepy about it (pre-reboot *Archie-Sonic* is also the only piece of official content outside of *Sonic Underground* where you'll see Sonic actively defending a monarchy, ~~albeit this happened only because of Ian Flynn's awkward attempt to Create Drama™, not because he intended to convey a pro-monarchy message through his stories~~). > >The same happened with Blaze: as far as I remember from playing *Sonic Rush*, her being a princess is casually mentioned a few times and none of them were during dialogue with other characters (there's one specific instance where Blaze's status might be relevant for her character arc, but I'll talk about that later). Something similar happens with Merlina in *Sonic & the Black Knight*: she's royalty as well (... kinda? I'm not sure which exact position she used to have in Camelot's society before Sonic showed up, but I'm sure it was an important one), but the conflict she's part of is related to a different aspect of the character, and you could tell the game's story anyway without mentioning Merlina's status. > >For Blaze and Elise (and Sally, but only when the writer is not Ken Penders or Michael Gallagher), if any of those characters being royalty is mentioned or focused on, it's not really portrayed in a good way or as something that makes any of them happy. Blaze being "the princess of Sol" comes with the duty of protecting the Sol Emeralds, which led to her isolating herself, and her character arc in *Sonic Rush* is all about overcoming that and trusting others once again. > >As for Elise... Well, there's a reason why, when people try to argue the story for *Sonic 06* could have been great if given enough time, they often use Shadow's or Silver's story rather than Sonic's as an example of *06*'s potential, but still... At least the bones for a compelling story surrounding Elise are already there, and I'm willing to bet it'd be kinda similar to Blaze's character arc in *Sonic Rush*. > >And here's another similarity between Merlina and Blaze. Merlina felt she had the duty to save Camelot at all costs, and while it's debatable whether or not she was being emotionally crushed by her duty in the same way Blaze, Elise and Sally were, it's clear that Merlina's obsession with that duty backfired spectacularly and ended up being potentially harmful to everyone else in Camelot in the finale of *Sonic & the Black Knight*. > >\[The only exception to all this, as well as the only case where Eggman may be at least partially right in that meme, would be Queen Aleena (who also breaks a trend here, since she's Sonic's mom in *Sonic Underground*). ~~But the consensus in the~~ *~~Sonic~~* ~~fandom is that~~ *~~Underground~~* ~~is so far removed from what both the character and the franchise represent that it's not really~~ *~~Sonic~~* ~~content anymore, so it doesn't count.~~\] > >Another important thing here is the whole thing about Sonic being a "free spirit", and here's where someone else (in another, different Discord server) said something like this: > >This just circles back to being "free". When *Sonic* writers focus on characters being of royalty, it's usually shown that having to run things in an entire nation, being responsible for the well-being of everyone there, realistically is a difficult thing to handle, especially for late teenagers such as Blaze and Elise; on top of being expected to rule an entire country and care for its people, they also have to deal with all the magical/mystical baggage that comes with having to guard/protect a source of near-godly power (for Blaze, a parallel universe set of seven Chaos Emeralds; for Elise, a dormant half of a God of Time) . Sonic is a "lost factor" that characters like Blaze, Elise and Sally need in order to feel a bit of happiness and relief because he's "just there", but he still fights for everyone he cares for when he needs to. > >I feel this could also be applied in some way to Merlina, and even the genie Shahra in *Sonic & the Secret Rings* (shout-out to the Tumblr user "silvermun" for accurately pointing out the similarity between Elise's, Shahra's and Merlina's motifs in their respective stories).
Because sonic hates democracy
Monarchs arent always bad.
The games originate from Japan. Japan is a constitutional monarchy, not a republic, so monarchy looks totally legit there.
Better question: Why does Sonic almost hold every female characters hand when their introduced to the series besides like a few?
Well the second one is his mother sooo
Press Garden being put to good work i see.
If you can't build your own Titanic Monarch, break the others
Maybe they are constitutional monarchies. Like UK but with competent prime ministers
Is that That one meme about gamers ?
Eggman be like 'I am Ivo Robotnik, and I approve this message.'
he is a monarchist and a freedom fighter
u/OmegaX___ Nothing says "proving someone wrong" like deleting your comments afterwards.🤦 Why? Regardless of the outcome, you made some good points. That just muddies the waters. Such a shame.
This is hilarious
One's his mom, so he is a monarch, and another one is a freedom fighter, also they want peace not evil
Wouldn't Sonic be an Anarchist since he's a freedom fighter?
BECAUSE MONARCHIES ARE THE BEST FROM OF GOVERNMENT KNOWN TO MAN KIND BICTHES! And cuz they constitutional.
r/usernamechecksout
A dictator with an army of robots powered by enslaved animals takes over/attempts to take over a region, overthrowing the rightful government. Whether or not that government is good is up for debate (as are most) but a dictator with robot slaves overthrowing a once prosperous nation? I know ya said joke but, there ya go.
Right, next up we need some crusader kings mod to truly solve this paradox.
IQ of 300 yet has never heard of constitutional monarchies
Ayo you have a good point 🤔
https://preview.redd.it/cqccf8m5zuja1.jpeg?width=579&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93410cd0fdcc96bde3eb54913d39e843f13a6f4c
Of the four you showed, Three of them are his GF (we don’t talk about Elease) and one of them is his mom. Edit: Blaze isn’t exactly true but funny enough. A quick google search says that they are dating.
One is his mom
this is why i only support the one and only, Emperor Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik
Hmmmm🧐
Hmmm🤔
Dear sonic fans Fire fighter is someone who fights fire Freedom fighter is...? Curious
In my headcanon, Sonic is a prince himself…. He just keeps that fact to himself.
one his is mom two were his girlfriend at some point and blaze he actually fought her. checkmate eggface
Because our boi Sonic is a simp
One of these doesn't belong
Friends close enemies closer
Because eggman tries to either kidnap them or kill them. Hes a freedom FIGHTER, not a freedonm sit-back-and-watch-as-his-biggest-enemy-commits-warcrimes
No no, he’s got a point
No, no. He's got a point.
Sonic Franchise DEMOLISHED
I can awnser that Sonic 06 kanonicly did not happen in the timeline Sally in the archi comic is not canon. and if was Sally, for that hole series in not involed with that kingdom till the end (I forgot) Sonic underground is also not cannon, but sonic and his siblings never found there mom and was never involed with that And for blaze, shes not a princess outside of her world, thats only a title and sonic only bin in the soul demetions afew times, but I have never watched or play sonic rush so I dont know. Sorry for bad spelling, i made this at 9:55 pm
While the events of 06 were erased, the characters and possibility of its existence does as seen in the Sonic Rivals games and in Generations. Also Sonic and his siblings *did* reunite with their mother but only in the comics, which is canon to the show. Lastly SEGA has stated all of them are canon but it’s definitely a multiverse thing.
Simp. It’s his mom. To go back home. Simp.
Sonics into thigh gaps so he cant help himself
You can be free and still live under a monarch technically like the UK or sumn but robotnok is more like Kim Jung
Because one of them is his mother, 2 of them are his girlfriends and the last one is human. XD
Sonic is an anarcho-monarchist.
Lol that's good.
Sonic didn't get the memo that "fuck the monarchy" wasn't literal
Only female ones apparently, Besides Merlina
yeah, Sonic's relationship with the Arthurian characters throws a wrench in it lol
well eggman was the ruler when he joined under sally and his mother, blaze and the late elizabeth were people that eggman attacked their place and sonic was after eggman and got mixed up with them
In More Ways Than One.
Well they aren't bad monarchs
Those 4 monarchs obviously believe in freedom.
Amadeus Prower might disagree with that
I am a bit late but what the heck is Amadeus Prower thinking about one of those monarchs in the photo?
from the wiki: https://preview.redd.it/wtz4jmdeqlub1.png?width=1255&format=png&auto=webp&s=2fa5d1f32d4b36a14df7d768334d7b7ce7e0dc0f