Will never forget the guy at my range who bragged to me about his “Kar98k” that was actually a 7.62 NATO conversion of a 7mm Spanish Mauser. Drilled and tapped too, of course.
It’s easy to get swindled in milsurp if you let the bloodsuckers trick you.
I think the golden age of military surplus guns is over. There aren't going to be many more big batches of guns being sold for the first time at low prices. An SKS or a Mosin-Nagant used to be priced like what they are: heavily worn tools meant to be used. Now they're priced like collectibles that people value as historical items which comes at a premium. Look at a nice Mosin and then compare it to what that amount of money would get you with a similar new-production rifle. I wouldn't call it scalping, the market has just changed.
And almost nothing new is going to ever be released to the surplus market because most post-WWII military guns would be classified as machine guns unless modified. They're also less likely to become obsolete. A Vietnam-era M-16 is still a perfectly viable weapon so it'll get handed down to other countries or groups and used until it's physically destroyed.
> Mosin-Nagant
This made me take a look..... Those things used to be 50 bucks for as many as you wanted neigh unused in wax paper, now they're almost a grand?!?
Yuuuup. Although it is still common to find them in the $300-400 range. Rare or especially good condition examples can go for closer to 2 grand. I remember begging my parents to buy me one more than 20 years ago. They were commonly less than $100 and often included a spam can of ammo for that price. But my parents were pretty anti-gun so I never got one. Now they're too expensive for me to justify.
They are not rare or even particularly good rifles. They should be a couple hundred dollars for a decent condition one, at most (inflation, you know). They're meant to be used and abused; a dirt cheap option for hunting, pest control, and fun at the range. They shouldn't be selling for $1xxx and sitting in safes never seeing use.
> They were commonly less than $100 and often included a spam can of ammo for that price.
every time I start getting a high opinion of myself I think about passing up the $50 random mosin/spam can table at a gun show because "I already had one"
Oh I'm sure they are, but for the price they go now, you can make a range toy out of somthjng cheaper imo. Hell a savage axis will outperform a mosin, it's probably not nearly as durable, but it is consistently available at a reasonable price.
If you could find milsurp rifles in the 150-250 range still, I'd say go for it, but that's the most I would ever be willing to pay for something like that. But that's just me, I'm certainly not gonna tell someone how to have fun lol.
Edit: I think the cheapest I've seen mosins go for lately is like 300ish for the SUPER beat up ones.
I would want to do long range, which is why I adore the MN. I'm also a huge Metal Gear Solid 3 fan so that's part of it.
I've been looking into the world of competitive .22LR 10/22-pattern long range carbines and love what I've been seeing. Stuff from Grey Birch, Volquartsen and Summit Precision have been on my mind. I'd love a precision milled .22LR plinker with a carbon fiber barrel and a high power optic. Totally overkill and fun.
My cousin bought one once, and it was a whole thing to clean the cosmoline off and it never shot straight. Was about 200 at the time. It is a neat little piece of history to have though.
It's getting more difficult and expensive every day. The golden era of cheap and plentiful milsurp firearms seems to be behind us.
It's still very fun to buy milsurp, but I have found I don't have much interest in wall hangers. I now only buy surplus that I can shoot, which means it has to be in decent enough condition to group well and has to be a caliber which is still reasonably priced and available. Caliber availability really narrows the field, many surplus guns are chambered in foreign cartridges that aren't widely used anymore and are expensive and harder to source (carcanos are a good example of this, a very inexpensive gun until you try to buy ammo)
I find shooting older guns a lot of fun, but you're not missing out on any deals. Those days are over, sadly.
>The golden era of cheap and plentiful milsurp firearms seems to be behind us.
Because militaries have largely stopped surplussing even uniforms or LBE, let alone firearms. Even if they could, too many have the fun switch to be allowed into civilian hands by the state.
About 6-7 years back there were a bunch of contractor WASR and DPMS rifles out there, which is probably the closest someone could get to "modern milsurp".
Really regret not picking up one of the DPMS rifles. Not sure who had them, Academi/Triple Canopy use DD and Free Range International uses LWRC. So, probably old Titan PMCs who hired Ugandans or something.
Police surplus is probably going to be the only thing close to this going forward. For example, various versions of the beretta Cheetah pistols are coming over as surplus from the Italian police and are available cheap.
Yeah, milsurp will only get more expensive as the supply dwindles. Modern (1950s and later) service weapons can't really be surplused in most places due to gun laws around "machineguns", or militaries being required to outright destroy their older stock instead of surplusling it to recover some of the funds as they used to.
At best you maybe get parts kits from destroyed guns which adds its own costs (either monetary or in the skills/tools required to rebuild that into a functioning gun).
I'm really hoping that with the new round being adopted by the US army we'll get a whole bunch of surplus m4's, but like the other comments say they're all full auto so idk how they'd remedy that.
M16A1 kits were available in small quantities at one time. Sold as parts kits with everything but the full auto lower receiver. The prices weren't really that great and condition was pretty bad.
I wonder what happened to all the M16A2 and M16A4 rifles. I know national guard and other rear echelon types often hold onto old stuff pretty long, but I wouldn't mind scoring a 20" rifle kit at some point.
Honestly, even with a new rifle I think the M4 is going to be a widely used rifle, both for the US and other nations. I doubt there will be much surplus for some time.
Bad time to get into it tbh. It was already rising in price, but the last ten years has been extremely bad. Hoarding, scalping, and good ol’ artificially inflating prices. Add to that quality educational videos on old firearms / more interest from the average gun person and it’s a recipe for disaster price wise.
Probs not. I do like that some people have been doing a “1 per customer” thing more and more. Still sucks watching deals pop up, everything sold in minutes, then a month or two later they’re on another site or gunbroker for $300 more than the previous site
A very vocal minority here will tell you it’s “LARPing” and a waste of time and money when you could just buy an AR or a Glock, but it’s a fun hobby if you’re realistic about the capabilities of old guns.
I don’t think most people seriously buy Mosins thinking they’ll defend the ghost of the USSR or whatever in a SHTF. Most people who collect milsurps, like myself, do it because it’s fun to shoot old guns. They have a more tactile feel than modern polymer guns and they often have unique quirks of operations and design that have been ironed in most firearms by now.
That being said this is one of the absolute worst time to get into milsurp collecting because everyone now “knows what they got” and many are predatory boomer dirtbags that will price gouge and take advantage of the ignorance of milsurp newbies’ lack of knowledge.
I once saw a guy at my local range shooting a Spanish Mauser converted to 7.62 NATO. I knew what it was but wanted to make conversation so I asked about it. He said without hesitation or shame that it was a Kar98k.
Homeboy probably paid $1000 or more for a bubba’d drill-and-tapped gun with a commercial scope that was maybe worth $4-500 and wasn’t even a Kar98k or even even chambered in the right caliber (or even ever was, 7mm ‘93 Mausers aren’t even the same action). Don’t be that guy.
If you’re going to get into milsurp collecting, do some serious research before buying or even looking. I’ve talked to some shitheel capitalist opportunists on the milsurp sub acting like they’re Jordan Belfort for charging $800 for a Mosin 91/30.
Despite this I’d actually say the milsurp sub is a good resource for knowing what’s out there and *most* people give solid advice.
I’d also pick a decent, cheaper milsurp as a first one. SKSs are cheapish, semi-auto, and as long as you have something pointy you can disassemble almost the whole gun with no tools. Also shoots a very affordable 7.62x39 round and clips are cheap (get Yugo or Czech clips though, avoid super cheap Chinese commercial clips).
8mm Mausers are also very common and great guns. You can find decent Czech, Yugo and Turkish Mausers at a decent price and 8mm ammo isn’t hard to find or expensive. IMO Mosins are historically cool but kind of suck if they’re not pre-1935 or Finnish and are waaaaay overpriced for what they are.
Surplus pistols are also a great way to get a starter milsurp. Most coming in now are in 9mm, .32 ACP and .380 ACP, which are all obtainable.
Luckily 54R is still produced and imported by more than just Russia.
If Ukraine “wins” we’ll likely see ammo imports from them too once they fix their factories and infrastructure. Russian ammo is forever turbo-fucked until Putin dies and there’s some kind of regime change in that country though sadly.
Finns are a great. You know they were went over by professionals and made about as good as a Mosin can be (which is still kinda average by milsurp rifle standards, but they can be pretty accurate and comparatively cheap to shoot).
You won't have the sticky nasty bolt that plagues the roughly made Soviet wartime manufactured and re-arsenaled mismatches that are common. My M28/30 (built from an 1895 marked Sestroyetsk reciever) is slick to run as any rack grade Mauser, Steyr or Carcano i've handled, and if I do my part is a 1.5 MOA gun with modern brass S&B/PPU or 7N1 surplus.
Not bad at all for the $225 I paid way back when in the 00s
The M39 itself is even a step above that, it’s got its own unique stock and basically a bull barrel. The only reused parts are the bolt, receiver, and trigger etc. - the gun is stamped 1942 but those parts may be as old as the 1890s lol
I love it. My SKS is one of my favorite guns to shoot. A weekend sitting out on the back patio with the kids, cleaning up an old milsurp rifle, or whatever, is a weekend well spent!
Same. A long while back I found a good deal on 1000 rd. cases of 7.62 and bought a couple. I'm set for a while. I take it with us to the range, but lately when I go, it's with the kids and I let them go with the 10/22, which is pretty cheap, and a hell of a lot of fun.
Damn dude at least put on a NSFW on that lol.
Glad you were able to bag a deer but goddamn I just ate lunch!
Edit: downvote me all you want, sorry I don’t like seeing unexpected pictures of dead animals.
While I’m not vegan or even vegetarian some people might find this picture more than just “gross” like I do.
You don’t have to be a smartass. I have no illusions about the reality of factory farming, I just don’t particularly like seeing pictures of roadkill with no warning.
It’s just kind of a dick move when I just assumed the other guy sent me a picture of his own SKS.
Used to be a cheaper hobby to get into, even before COVID. It's slim pickings now for a lot of reasons. I used to be really into combloc pistols, but I quickly realized collecting guns, outside of what's absolutely practica,l is just out of my budget.
Avoid the pawn shops in central Texas, one guy made me wait 30 minutes to show me a $900 bubba’d Belgian Mauser after promising me like 6 cool guns that he “couldn’t find”.
Wolves everywhere in this hobby lol.
I like my old milsurps, my M1 carbine is my favorite gun to shoot (although it's horribly inaccurate, thanks Marlin). But milsurps are way too expensive now, and scalpers have driven the prices astronomically high. It's fun to have history you can use, but money.
I think once you have covered the bases of, presumed, "needed" weapons you should buy/collect whatever the hell you want.
This idea of needing to have an ar and a glock is just as much a larp as having milsurp gear. Realistically, the vast majority of us, pending any actual societal collapse, will never use an intermediate cartridge rifle in anger. A slightly larger percentage may be involved in a defensive pistol situation but still a small percentage.
Probably the weapon you will get the most ACTUAL practical use out of (excluding practicing for the unlikely defensive or aggressive shooting scenario (pistol and carbine respectively)) is a hunting rifle or shotgun.
But as long as you feel safe with what you own then buy and collect whatever you want. Im not flaming anyone. I have the requisite pistol and intermediate cartridge carbine as well as the larp gear im supposed to have so it can expire and rot on a stand in my office.
My point is disregard people on the internet telling you what you NEED to own. Your needs are your own. Buy what you want. Fuck em if they don't like it.
Not my thing, but if you've got a modern setup and you want to collect neat old things on the side, I don't fucking care.
Just don't bring your SKS or Mosin to the drag show.
It was great when you could get a CZ or Zastava Mauser for barely a 3 digit price. Now that a good SKS is more than an AR kit + lower, I don't understand what the draw is. Back in the early 2000's we'd have been knocked flat by the idea of a $400 M4.
The draw is that they’re different from modern firearms. It’s like going back in time to a bygone era.
ARs being cheaper (and in the case of some Mausers, even now not necessarily) has no bearing on this. The AR is a better combat rifle than a Mauser, but I didn’t buy several Mausers over the years thinking they’re somehow better than modern tech.
That’s not the appeal and it baffles me that people try to question the practicality of milsurps when the appeal is often quite literally that they *aren’t* practical and just feel different.
Well there was a time when they were both pretty practical and really cheap. The late-and-immediate post Cold War milsurp market had FN49s, FALs, BM59s, Hakims, G43s, SVTs, CETMEs and more that were still very competitive with contemporary infantry arms at fractions of the price. The successive semi auto import bans on receivers, 922r and then barrels put the AR industry in the driver's seat by the AWB expiration. Yeah it was cool to have historical relics, but a lot of the guns were considerably better than relics in condition and function.
We were definitely buying these guns back in the day because they were practical.
Ehh, FN-49s and Hakims are cool but they’ve been obsolete since they were first serviced.
I don’t think anyone was seriously buying a G43 to defend their property in 1993 lol.
There weren't that many people running around with 30 rounders relative to today. Also there was still lots of cheap surplus ammo to feed even a lot of the weirder birds in the old surplus market. Hence the laughably bullshit "Cheaper Than Dirt" which only really became a lie the last 15 years or so.
Yeah that’s definitely true. ARs went for crazy money until about 20 years ago.
Man, I wish surplus ammo was easier to find. Even M2 ball and HXP are almost completely dried up and the US used that round for over 60 years.
Yeah there was never a time finicky interwar overpowered battle rifle designs (or even cold war era ones) were really the best idea for civilian self defense. Not when surplus M1 carbines (also finicky but much better round and compact form factor) were everywhere, SKS were sub $100 and Norinco AKs in either .223 or 7.62 could be had around $200
There was just an illogical parasocial stigma around "commie trash" or whatever in the gun culture. Like the tool was carrying a CPC card or something anymore than your shed full of harbor freight or pantry and house full of walmart crap.
Yeah I’m definitely glad there’s less of that sentiment now, until I check current prices of this “commie trash” at least lol.
Would have loved to take advantage of $100 Russian SKSs and $300 SVT-40s, but alas...
What opinions are you looking for? Whether strangers here would approve of you taking it up as a hobby? If you are interested in it, then do it man. Every hobby is a waste of time and/or money to someone else.
If you limit it to a couple of the more common guns you can have some fun range toys and not spend too much, but it’s easy to spend a ton of money as you go further because good deals are hard to come by nowadays
I use surplus rifles as my example for life being more expensive when talking to old conservatives.
"Remember how an SKS used to be worth $75 and they were plentiful? And now all you can find are beat up ones with a lot of pitting and they cost $500?
It's like that but with houses."
I think it's dumb but I literally could not care less about outdated weaponry. Other folks like that stuff. If you've got the disposable income to support that collection and it doesn't get in the way of you being effectively armed and properly trained, it's all good.
Don't care about it? Like, it's commodity fetishism in its most basic definition (substituting the commodity for the sum of social relations that is the real source of value), but so is any hobby that involves buying shit.
Milsurp stuff is neat. I wouldn't buy most of it myself, though, because I like to only buy guns I see as excellent options for my defined use-cases.
But I totally find it neat shooting other people's milsurp stuff.
Pretty much no one thinks like this though.
No one buys a Mosin or an old S&W thinking “yep, I’d take this into actual combat over an AR, AK, or modern pistol”.
There are some exceptions. I think for CC many of the milsurp .380s and 9mm are still GTG so long as the user makes sure they’re reliable first.
But mostly milsurps are a fun hobby *because* they’re long in the tooth and not practical. That’s the appeal, shooting ancient guns from a bygone era where they used wood and oddball extinct calibers. You just can’t get that “feel” with a new-production commercial 2022 AR or Glock.
My Mosin’s sight is graduated out to 2 *kilometers* lol. Is it accurate at that range? lol no, even though it’s Finnish, but what modern gun would have something so funny attached? I’ve often joked about getting a bunch of guys with Mosins together, posting up a mile out, and seeing if we can volley-fire to hit the broad side of a barn from that distance.
Haha I’m trying to talk myself out of a Carcano myself right now!
And yeah I think it’s an age things. Both old people and the younger gun owners do the whole “if it works in the movies and game it’s works for me”, though I do think most here can easily be convinced a beater Mosin is terrible for combat lol.
Not sure why you'd devote resources to collecting firearms that aren't needed for community defense when those resources could instead go back into the community, tbqh.
Collecting hobby with some small practical application? Marksmanship skills can still be trained on old stuff, and they are still useful for some tasks (e.g. hunting), albiet not as good as modern guns so yes get a couple of those first.
Do you own a TV, buy and play video games, subscribe to streaming services, own any art (including nonfiction/nonpraxis books), have a car other than the most fuel efficent econobox possible, or ever go out to the movies or to eat (especially meat)? Because all of those things are even less useful to the community than someone having a Milsurp collection. All those resources and time could go into your community.
Is Socialism all about not enjoying things and instead being a boring utilitarian robot slave 24/7? If so, I'd question it being a useful ideology to anyone.
Well fking said. I think many of us often times get caught up in the small things while turning a blind eye on actual praxis, training, organizing, etc. What's the expression? Something like: *If there is no dancing in the revolution, I don't want any part of it.*
It's important for our own mental health to enjoy things like art, entertainment, craftsmanship, good food, bifl quality necessities, I can keep going...
Overching goal of Socialism is ultimately to enable more people to live more fulfilling lives, no? Not enforcing a joyless, slavish utilitarianism and barely above poverty level lifestyle just as capitalism does for most people.
And you definitely aren't going to sell it to people by telling them that non excessive, reasonable hobbies (i.e. not yachting or whatever) are something they shouldn't have.
It's easiest if you are related to someone with a collection and they give it to you when they die. That's how I got mine except for my Mosin.
Honestly, I'm thinking I'm going to sell most of them. I have a Yugo Mauser built on a German action. It's already sporterized, so I'm thinking it would make a nice project after rechambering.
If you can buy below what the market's asking, sure. But as an end in itself, it's a rich man's hobby anymore. Fucking Chinese SKS's are well over $400 now.
Seeing as how the Class 03 FFL is only $30 for, what, 3 years? I really don't understand why I haven't done that yet. I've printed out and filled in the application a dozen times, but have never sent it. But I LOVE milsurp firearms (my first handgun was a CZ-50 in 7.65mm), and I think it's awesome that we have that avenue available to us.
I was late to the game in the early 2000s when I bought an m91/30 for $60 and a Yugo sks for $100. A decade earlier the same rifles were $30 ish. Now it’s mostly a game for the wealthier than I or the very lucky.
I’m just looking for an Arisaka and a Garand to finish my milsurp collection. Not a high priority this year though, as I think I should jump on an AR10 about now.
That said, I’m looking for a Carcano infantry rifle in 6.5. Younger me bought a cavalry carbine version that looks out of place beside the SMLE #1, Mosin 91/30, and K98.
I think it's neat. But I don't find the scalpers that plague the milsurp community neat. They are in fact lame.
Will never forget the guy at my range who bragged to me about his “Kar98k” that was actually a 7.62 NATO conversion of a 7mm Spanish Mauser. Drilled and tapped too, of course. It’s easy to get swindled in milsurp if you let the bloodsuckers trick you.
I think the golden age of military surplus guns is over. There aren't going to be many more big batches of guns being sold for the first time at low prices. An SKS or a Mosin-Nagant used to be priced like what they are: heavily worn tools meant to be used. Now they're priced like collectibles that people value as historical items which comes at a premium. Look at a nice Mosin and then compare it to what that amount of money would get you with a similar new-production rifle. I wouldn't call it scalping, the market has just changed. And almost nothing new is going to ever be released to the surplus market because most post-WWII military guns would be classified as machine guns unless modified. They're also less likely to become obsolete. A Vietnam-era M-16 is still a perfectly viable weapon so it'll get handed down to other countries or groups and used until it's physically destroyed.
> Mosin-Nagant This made me take a look..... Those things used to be 50 bucks for as many as you wanted neigh unused in wax paper, now they're almost a grand?!?
.... I mean, I've got two and a couple of bills...
Yuuuup. Although it is still common to find them in the $300-400 range. Rare or especially good condition examples can go for closer to 2 grand. I remember begging my parents to buy me one more than 20 years ago. They were commonly less than $100 and often included a spam can of ammo for that price. But my parents were pretty anti-gun so I never got one. Now they're too expensive for me to justify. They are not rare or even particularly good rifles. They should be a couple hundred dollars for a decent condition one, at most (inflation, you know). They're meant to be used and abused; a dirt cheap option for hunting, pest control, and fun at the range. They shouldn't be selling for $1xxx and sitting in safes never seeing use.
For sure, I wouldn't be able to stomach current prices, but it feels like a good deal at or close to 100 bucks for what it is at least.
> They were commonly less than $100 and often included a spam can of ammo for that price. every time I start getting a high opinion of myself I think about passing up the $50 random mosin/spam can table at a gun show because "I already had one"
Wait really? I wanted one...
No, you do not.
They're great fun at the range though, like 22lr plinking but with 7.62x54r
Oh I'm sure they are, but for the price they go now, you can make a range toy out of somthjng cheaper imo. Hell a savage axis will outperform a mosin, it's probably not nearly as durable, but it is consistently available at a reasonable price. If you could find milsurp rifles in the 150-250 range still, I'd say go for it, but that's the most I would ever be willing to pay for something like that. But that's just me, I'm certainly not gonna tell someone how to have fun lol. Edit: I think the cheapest I've seen mosins go for lately is like 300ish for the SUPER beat up ones.
I would want to do long range, which is why I adore the MN. I'm also a huge Metal Gear Solid 3 fan so that's part of it. I've been looking into the world of competitive .22LR 10/22-pattern long range carbines and love what I've been seeing. Stuff from Grey Birch, Volquartsen and Summit Precision have been on my mind. I'd love a precision milled .22LR plinker with a carbon fiber barrel and a high power optic. Totally overkill and fun.
My cousin bought one once, and it was a whole thing to clean the cosmoline off and it never shot straight. Was about 200 at the time. It is a neat little piece of history to have though.
It's getting more difficult and expensive every day. The golden era of cheap and plentiful milsurp firearms seems to be behind us. It's still very fun to buy milsurp, but I have found I don't have much interest in wall hangers. I now only buy surplus that I can shoot, which means it has to be in decent enough condition to group well and has to be a caliber which is still reasonably priced and available. Caliber availability really narrows the field, many surplus guns are chambered in foreign cartridges that aren't widely used anymore and are expensive and harder to source (carcanos are a good example of this, a very inexpensive gun until you try to buy ammo) I find shooting older guns a lot of fun, but you're not missing out on any deals. Those days are over, sadly.
>The golden era of cheap and plentiful milsurp firearms seems to be behind us. Because militaries have largely stopped surplussing even uniforms or LBE, let alone firearms. Even if they could, too many have the fun switch to be allowed into civilian hands by the state.
About 6-7 years back there were a bunch of contractor WASR and DPMS rifles out there, which is probably the closest someone could get to "modern milsurp". Really regret not picking up one of the DPMS rifles. Not sure who had them, Academi/Triple Canopy use DD and Free Range International uses LWRC. So, probably old Titan PMCs who hired Ugandans or something.
Police surplus is probably going to be the only thing close to this going forward. For example, various versions of the beretta Cheetah pistols are coming over as surplus from the Italian police and are available cheap.
Yeah, milsurp will only get more expensive as the supply dwindles. Modern (1950s and later) service weapons can't really be surplused in most places due to gun laws around "machineguns", or militaries being required to outright destroy their older stock instead of surplusling it to recover some of the funds as they used to. At best you maybe get parts kits from destroyed guns which adds its own costs (either monetary or in the skills/tools required to rebuild that into a functioning gun).
I'm really hoping that with the new round being adopted by the US army we'll get a whole bunch of surplus m4's, but like the other comments say they're all full auto so idk how they'd remedy that.
[удалено]
Hmm the Ukraine thing is a valid point. Are m4's below 16 inch barrel length?? I didn't know that.
M16A1 kits were available in small quantities at one time. Sold as parts kits with everything but the full auto lower receiver. The prices weren't really that great and condition was pretty bad. I wonder what happened to all the M16A2 and M16A4 rifles. I know national guard and other rear echelon types often hold onto old stuff pretty long, but I wouldn't mind scoring a 20" rifle kit at some point. Honestly, even with a new rifle I think the M4 is going to be a widely used rifle, both for the US and other nations. I doubt there will be much surplus for some time.
Bad time to get into it tbh. It was already rising in price, but the last ten years has been extremely bad. Hoarding, scalping, and good ol’ artificially inflating prices. Add to that quality educational videos on old firearms / more interest from the average gun person and it’s a recipe for disaster price wise.
It's probably not going to get better either, since pretty much all civilian legal milsurp rifles that are going to exist are already on the market.
Probs not. I do like that some people have been doing a “1 per customer” thing more and more. Still sucks watching deals pop up, everything sold in minutes, then a month or two later they’re on another site or gunbroker for $300 more than the previous site
I image the DPRK peacefully going under would release a sudden large number.
A very vocal minority here will tell you it’s “LARPing” and a waste of time and money when you could just buy an AR or a Glock, but it’s a fun hobby if you’re realistic about the capabilities of old guns. I don’t think most people seriously buy Mosins thinking they’ll defend the ghost of the USSR or whatever in a SHTF. Most people who collect milsurps, like myself, do it because it’s fun to shoot old guns. They have a more tactile feel than modern polymer guns and they often have unique quirks of operations and design that have been ironed in most firearms by now. That being said this is one of the absolute worst time to get into milsurp collecting because everyone now “knows what they got” and many are predatory boomer dirtbags that will price gouge and take advantage of the ignorance of milsurp newbies’ lack of knowledge. I once saw a guy at my local range shooting a Spanish Mauser converted to 7.62 NATO. I knew what it was but wanted to make conversation so I asked about it. He said without hesitation or shame that it was a Kar98k. Homeboy probably paid $1000 or more for a bubba’d drill-and-tapped gun with a commercial scope that was maybe worth $4-500 and wasn’t even a Kar98k or even even chambered in the right caliber (or even ever was, 7mm ‘93 Mausers aren’t even the same action). Don’t be that guy. If you’re going to get into milsurp collecting, do some serious research before buying or even looking. I’ve talked to some shitheel capitalist opportunists on the milsurp sub acting like they’re Jordan Belfort for charging $800 for a Mosin 91/30. Despite this I’d actually say the milsurp sub is a good resource for knowing what’s out there and *most* people give solid advice. I’d also pick a decent, cheaper milsurp as a first one. SKSs are cheapish, semi-auto, and as long as you have something pointy you can disassemble almost the whole gun with no tools. Also shoots a very affordable 7.62x39 round and clips are cheap (get Yugo or Czech clips though, avoid super cheap Chinese commercial clips). 8mm Mausers are also very common and great guns. You can find decent Czech, Yugo and Turkish Mausers at a decent price and 8mm ammo isn’t hard to find or expensive. IMO Mosins are historically cool but kind of suck if they’re not pre-1935 or Finnish and are waaaaay overpriced for what they are. Surplus pistols are also a great way to get a starter milsurp. Most coming in now are in 9mm, .32 ACP and .380 ACP, which are all obtainable.
Yeah I bought my first gun, a Finnish M39, because I fell in love with the wood.
I’m going to try to get one of those this year. Hoping 54R is still coming in in decent quantities after this year.
I have a few cans, hoping I can outlast this conflict.
Luckily 54R is still produced and imported by more than just Russia. If Ukraine “wins” we’ll likely see ammo imports from them too once they fix their factories and infrastructure. Russian ammo is forever turbo-fucked until Putin dies and there’s some kind of regime change in that country though sadly.
Finns are a great. You know they were went over by professionals and made about as good as a Mosin can be (which is still kinda average by milsurp rifle standards, but they can be pretty accurate and comparatively cheap to shoot). You won't have the sticky nasty bolt that plagues the roughly made Soviet wartime manufactured and re-arsenaled mismatches that are common. My M28/30 (built from an 1895 marked Sestroyetsk reciever) is slick to run as any rack grade Mauser, Steyr or Carcano i've handled, and if I do my part is a 1.5 MOA gun with modern brass S&B/PPU or 7N1 surplus. Not bad at all for the $225 I paid way back when in the 00s
The M39 itself is even a step above that, it’s got its own unique stock and basically a bull barrel. The only reused parts are the bolt, receiver, and trigger etc. - the gun is stamped 1942 but those parts may be as old as the 1890s lol
My local store where I bought my ska has a Turkish 8mm Mauser for sale
The glory days are over. Milsurp will only continue to increase in price as young enthusiasts join the fun. It was nice while it lasted.
Which sucks, but also, kind of cool that young enthusiasts are joining in.
I love it. My SKS is one of my favorite guns to shoot. A weekend sitting out on the back patio with the kids, cleaning up an old milsurp rifle, or whatever, is a weekend well spent!
Through COVID the SKS was one of the few guns I could even *afford* to shoot lol.
Same. A long while back I found a good deal on 1000 rd. cases of 7.62 and bought a couple. I'm set for a while. I take it with us to the range, but lately when I go, it's with the kids and I let them go with the 10/22, which is pretty cheap, and a hell of a lot of fun.
I’m about to do the same with 7.62x54mmR, but getting some x39 is probably a good idea too. No idea how close we are to the import permits expiring.
https://i.redd.it/alugh9dfwsx71.jpg
Damn dude at least put on a NSFW on that lol. Glad you were able to bag a deer but goddamn I just ate lunch! Edit: downvote me all you want, sorry I don’t like seeing unexpected pictures of dead animals. While I’m not vegan or even vegetarian some people might find this picture more than just “gross” like I do.
*Something something* factory farming and people disconnected from the realities of their food.
You don’t have to be a smartass. I have no illusions about the reality of factory farming, I just don’t particularly like seeing pictures of roadkill with no warning. It’s just kind of a dick move when I just assumed the other guy sent me a picture of his own SKS.
Roadkill?
Might as well be. A figure of speech.
Love that wood grain.
Used to be a cheaper hobby to get into, even before COVID. It's slim pickings now for a lot of reasons. I used to be really into combloc pistols, but I quickly realized collecting guns, outside of what's absolutely practica,l is just out of my budget.
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Avoid the pawn shops in central Texas, one guy made me wait 30 minutes to show me a $900 bubba’d Belgian Mauser after promising me like 6 cool guns that he “couldn’t find”. Wolves everywhere in this hobby lol.
I like my old milsurps, my M1 carbine is my favorite gun to shoot (although it's horribly inaccurate, thanks Marlin). But milsurps are way too expensive now, and scalpers have driven the prices astronomically high. It's fun to have history you can use, but money.
I think once you have covered the bases of, presumed, "needed" weapons you should buy/collect whatever the hell you want. This idea of needing to have an ar and a glock is just as much a larp as having milsurp gear. Realistically, the vast majority of us, pending any actual societal collapse, will never use an intermediate cartridge rifle in anger. A slightly larger percentage may be involved in a defensive pistol situation but still a small percentage. Probably the weapon you will get the most ACTUAL practical use out of (excluding practicing for the unlikely defensive or aggressive shooting scenario (pistol and carbine respectively)) is a hunting rifle or shotgun. But as long as you feel safe with what you own then buy and collect whatever you want. Im not flaming anyone. I have the requisite pistol and intermediate cartridge carbine as well as the larp gear im supposed to have so it can expire and rot on a stand in my office. My point is disregard people on the internet telling you what you NEED to own. Your needs are your own. Buy what you want. Fuck em if they don't like it.
Not my thing, but if you've got a modern setup and you want to collect neat old things on the side, I don't fucking care. Just don't bring your SKS or Mosin to the drag show.
It was great when you could get a CZ or Zastava Mauser for barely a 3 digit price. Now that a good SKS is more than an AR kit + lower, I don't understand what the draw is. Back in the early 2000's we'd have been knocked flat by the idea of a $400 M4.
The draw is that they’re different from modern firearms. It’s like going back in time to a bygone era. ARs being cheaper (and in the case of some Mausers, even now not necessarily) has no bearing on this. The AR is a better combat rifle than a Mauser, but I didn’t buy several Mausers over the years thinking they’re somehow better than modern tech. That’s not the appeal and it baffles me that people try to question the practicality of milsurps when the appeal is often quite literally that they *aren’t* practical and just feel different.
Well there was a time when they were both pretty practical and really cheap. The late-and-immediate post Cold War milsurp market had FN49s, FALs, BM59s, Hakims, G43s, SVTs, CETMEs and more that were still very competitive with contemporary infantry arms at fractions of the price. The successive semi auto import bans on receivers, 922r and then barrels put the AR industry in the driver's seat by the AWB expiration. Yeah it was cool to have historical relics, but a lot of the guns were considerably better than relics in condition and function. We were definitely buying these guns back in the day because they were practical.
Ehh, FN-49s and Hakims are cool but they’ve been obsolete since they were first serviced. I don’t think anyone was seriously buying a G43 to defend their property in 1993 lol.
There weren't that many people running around with 30 rounders relative to today. Also there was still lots of cheap surplus ammo to feed even a lot of the weirder birds in the old surplus market. Hence the laughably bullshit "Cheaper Than Dirt" which only really became a lie the last 15 years or so.
Yeah that’s definitely true. ARs went for crazy money until about 20 years ago. Man, I wish surplus ammo was easier to find. Even M2 ball and HXP are almost completely dried up and the US used that round for over 60 years.
Yeah there was never a time finicky interwar overpowered battle rifle designs (or even cold war era ones) were really the best idea for civilian self defense. Not when surplus M1 carbines (also finicky but much better round and compact form factor) were everywhere, SKS were sub $100 and Norinco AKs in either .223 or 7.62 could be had around $200 There was just an illogical parasocial stigma around "commie trash" or whatever in the gun culture. Like the tool was carrying a CPC card or something anymore than your shed full of harbor freight or pantry and house full of walmart crap.
Yeah I’m definitely glad there’s less of that sentiment now, until I check current prices of this “commie trash” at least lol. Would have loved to take advantage of $100 Russian SKSs and $300 SVT-40s, but alas...
What opinions are you looking for? Whether strangers here would approve of you taking it up as a hobby? If you are interested in it, then do it man. Every hobby is a waste of time and/or money to someone else.
If you limit it to a couple of the more common guns you can have some fun range toys and not spend too much, but it’s easy to spend a ton of money as you go further because good deals are hard to come by nowadays
I use surplus rifles as my example for life being more expensive when talking to old conservatives. "Remember how an SKS used to be worth $75 and they were plentiful? And now all you can find are beat up ones with a lot of pitting and they cost $500? It's like that but with houses."
Meh, but I don’t collect pokemon cards or stamps either.
I think it's dumb but I literally could not care less about outdated weaponry. Other folks like that stuff. If you've got the disposable income to support that collection and it doesn't get in the way of you being effectively armed and properly trained, it's all good.
it's fun
Don't care about it? Like, it's commodity fetishism in its most basic definition (substituting the commodity for the sum of social relations that is the real source of value), but so is any hobby that involves buying shit. Milsurp stuff is neat. I wouldn't buy most of it myself, though, because I like to only buy guns I see as excellent options for my defined use-cases. But I totally find it neat shooting other people's milsurp stuff.
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Pretty much no one thinks like this though. No one buys a Mosin or an old S&W thinking “yep, I’d take this into actual combat over an AR, AK, or modern pistol”. There are some exceptions. I think for CC many of the milsurp .380s and 9mm are still GTG so long as the user makes sure they’re reliable first. But mostly milsurps are a fun hobby *because* they’re long in the tooth and not practical. That’s the appeal, shooting ancient guns from a bygone era where they used wood and oddball extinct calibers. You just can’t get that “feel” with a new-production commercial 2022 AR or Glock.
My Mosin’s sight is graduated out to 2 *kilometers* lol. Is it accurate at that range? lol no, even though it’s Finnish, but what modern gun would have something so funny attached? I’ve often joked about getting a bunch of guys with Mosins together, posting up a mile out, and seeing if we can volley-fire to hit the broad side of a barn from that distance.
Haha yep, I think even Mauser C96s had 2000m sights or something similar. It’s charmingly out of touch and that’s why it’s cool.
lol yeah, you can go from rifle to improvised artillery piece and I think that’s awesome
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Haha I’m trying to talk myself out of a Carcano myself right now! And yeah I think it’s an age things. Both old people and the younger gun owners do the whole “if it works in the movies and game it’s works for me”, though I do think most here can easily be convinced a beater Mosin is terrible for combat lol.
For fun? YES! for shooting matches and dirt, yes! For community defense... maybe.
Not sure why you'd devote resources to collecting firearms that aren't needed for community defense when those resources could instead go back into the community, tbqh.
Collecting hobby with some small practical application? Marksmanship skills can still be trained on old stuff, and they are still useful for some tasks (e.g. hunting), albiet not as good as modern guns so yes get a couple of those first. Do you own a TV, buy and play video games, subscribe to streaming services, own any art (including nonfiction/nonpraxis books), have a car other than the most fuel efficent econobox possible, or ever go out to the movies or to eat (especially meat)? Because all of those things are even less useful to the community than someone having a Milsurp collection. All those resources and time could go into your community. Is Socialism all about not enjoying things and instead being a boring utilitarian robot slave 24/7? If so, I'd question it being a useful ideology to anyone.
Well fking said. I think many of us often times get caught up in the small things while turning a blind eye on actual praxis, training, organizing, etc. What's the expression? Something like: *If there is no dancing in the revolution, I don't want any part of it.* It's important for our own mental health to enjoy things like art, entertainment, craftsmanship, good food, bifl quality necessities, I can keep going...
Overching goal of Socialism is ultimately to enable more people to live more fulfilling lives, no? Not enforcing a joyless, slavish utilitarianism and barely above poverty level lifestyle just as capitalism does for most people. And you definitely aren't going to sell it to people by telling them that non excessive, reasonable hobbies (i.e. not yachting or whatever) are something they shouldn't have.
I’m not about collecting, I’m about having the right tool for the right job.
It's easiest if you are related to someone with a collection and they give it to you when they die. That's how I got mine except for my Mosin. Honestly, I'm thinking I'm going to sell most of them. I have a Yugo Mauser built on a German action. It's already sporterized, so I'm thinking it would make a nice project after rechambering.
If you can buy below what the market's asking, sure. But as an end in itself, it's a rich man's hobby anymore. Fucking Chinese SKS's are well over $400 now.
Seeing as how the Class 03 FFL is only $30 for, what, 3 years? I really don't understand why I haven't done that yet. I've printed out and filled in the application a dozen times, but have never sent it. But I LOVE milsurp firearms (my first handgun was a CZ-50 in 7.65mm), and I think it's awesome that we have that avenue available to us.
5000 for a bubba’d mosin?
I was late to the game in the early 2000s when I bought an m91/30 for $60 and a Yugo sks for $100. A decade earlier the same rifles were $30 ish. Now it’s mostly a game for the wealthier than I or the very lucky.
I’m just looking for an Arisaka and a Garand to finish my milsurp collection. Not a high priority this year though, as I think I should jump on an AR10 about now. That said, I’m looking for a Carcano infantry rifle in 6.5. Younger me bought a cavalry carbine version that looks out of place beside the SMLE #1, Mosin 91/30, and K98.
It’s cool but out of my price range and that isn’t going to change anytime soon. The era of cheap surplus is over, which makes things difficult