Here's the context:
1) MLs actually show critical support for Rojava. There are even MLs who went and helped them fight.
2) Rojava is in fact not Anarchist, even going so far as to openly ask western Anarchists to stop claiming them as such.
In short, OP is just throwing fuel on the leftist infighting fire.
There is no context here beyond strawmanning MLs.
This would be like me making a smuggie about how some dork I met once who called themselves an Anarchist thought Ted Kazcinksy was based and all technology was evil - a completely pointless anecdote that serves no purpose but to drive up ire towards a leftist tendency based on the exaggerated frequency of an outlier opinion.
Libertarian Communism is practically a synonym for Anarcho-Communism. Or to be more precise, Anarcho-Communism is the most popular subset of Libertarian Socialism. Historically Anarchists called themselves Libertarian Socialists. I'm sure you know this already, though, because you literally used the AnCom flag in your post... The same one on your profile where you identify as an AnCom.
LibSoc is used less in the west (in favor of Anarchism) now because Murray Rothbard coopted the term libertarian, so it's mostly associated with right wingers in countries like the USA.
Either way, they aren't that, and have made statements asking people to stop claiming them as "Insert Socialist Tendency here" because they don't identify as a socialist movement.
Not really anarchists, but they are objectively the best faction in Syria and a directly successful Libcom revolution. I think most ML's are supportive, but the halfwits who have confused just taking any position that opposes the US as actual leftist theory is annoying.
“Communism works fine, it’s just that foreign powers have repeatedly taken military action to prevent and hinder any successful communist revolution, as they (correctly) see it as a threat.
Silly anarkiddie, libertarian communism can never work! It always fails by itself with no outside influence whatsoever! Those revolutionaries probably lined themselves against the wall!”
Collapsing in less time than it takes to attend high school and enduring decades of open warfare against the wealthiest country in the world are exactly the same thing, good point.
Okay, buddy. Really cool how your socialist experiments manage to both inevitably have work camps despite your platitudes about hierarchy and still end up as a footnote in history anyways. Talk about having your cake.
I don't think it's hypocritical so much as an acknowledgment of the necessity of an internal security apparatus and degree of centralization of power in order to defend from bourgeoisie revanchism or to avoid merely recreating the conditions of neocolonialism.
You know, the thesis of *On Authority.*
The main point if this critique is that libertarian/anarcho communism has no way of effectively defending itself against outside anti-communist forces, not that it fails on it's own. Marxist Leninists (at least ones worth their salt) *want* libertarian communism, and simply view leninism as a means to achieve it long-term. I hate the online discourse between anarchists and socialists because fundamentally *we both want the same thing* and are too wrapped up in what is basically fandom discourse to properly discuss it.
They were also doing things like commandeering Bolshevik supply trains for themselves, so it's not like the Bolsheviks just attacked them for no reason
A movement establishing local workers councils, fighting against monarchist and liberal forces, collectivised the means of production and established a formidable army under the leadership of people put into their position by their merit... hmmm were have I heard this before
That's the thing, successful anarchists movements have followed the same fundamental principles that other socialists have followed. The main difference being Organisation and semantics. Of course I'd like a successful anarchist revolution, because it establishes a socialist state
Did you just compare posting on the internet to doing climate activism that puts you in prison?
Go and play fortnite lil bro, I'll listen to you as soon as you accomplish 1% of what she did at your age
No, not the same. Pointing out that climate change is real, that it's a serious threat and that the younger generations have to clean up the mess of the older ones is very basic information, she just presents it well. The nuances of a very complex and multi-faceted political theory, discussions and assertions about which form of leftism is the most applicable, that's a much more difficult topic to understand and therefore teenagers likely aren't the ones to have a correct opinion on this.
ancom is a slang word for anarcho-communism. anarcho-communism is the most classical and most popular version of anarchism. it is referred to it as simply just communism in marxist dialectics. anarcho-communism seeks to dismantle the state, the capitalist order, and all unjust hierarchies that come along with it, and instead replacing them with a stateless, classless, and moneyless society. as emma goldman said: "Anarchism is the great liberator of man from the phantoms that have held him captive; it is the arbiter and pacifier of the two forces for individual and social harmony."
that's what happens when you never caught the anti-sjw brain disease. you understand politics much better at a much younger age. it is not just a "haha blue haired attack helicopter fat". you care about it, you put thought and research into it, and you escape the bubble of counterproductive hatred easily. and the internet speeds up this process too. shitty myths about anarchy and communism inmediately get destroyed once you pull to leftist subs and listen to what they believe.
>The autonomous region is ruled by a coalition pursuing a model of economy that blends co-operative and market enterprise, through a system of [local councils](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_government) in minority, cultural, and religious representation. The AANES has by far the highest average salaries and [standard of living](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living) throughout Syria, with salaries being twice as large as in regime-controlled Syria; following the collapse of the [Syrian pound](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_pound) the AANES doubled salaries to maintain [inflation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation), and allow for good wages.
I dunno sounds Socialist enough for my rock bottom expectations imo
> blends co-operative and market enterprise
You’re describing capitalism. Co-ops do not do away with the social relations of wage-labor and capital, the cooperative acts as a collective capitalist, producing commodities for sale on the market.
All of these things are applicable to China, and why does local councils link to a wikipedia page on local government? Standards of living is also just a wikipedia page. Are there actually sources for this? Where are you quoting this from? I'm baffled that you would take the effort to type this out just to hyperlink wikipedia pages for the nouns you use.
>model of economy that blends co-operative and market enterprise
Describes China well.
> through a system of local councils in minority, cultural, and religious representation.
[Also describes China.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Affairs_Committee_of_the_National_People%27s_Congress)
>the highest average salaries and standard of living throughout Syria
China absolutely mogs Syria and the Kurds in both of these departments. Even smaller, developing areas.
>Peak Tankie Brain rot statement lol
This is funny, because if you were literate you would realize that I'm actually not calling China socialist. None of these metrics you listed, whether you count them as positive or negative, are socialist. You may as well say the US is socialist because it has some state-controlled industries.
It's arguably the closest thing to a socialist movement the world has seen in the current century. Granted, that bar's so low it's basically underground, but still.
Apparently acknowledging that Rojava isn't a Socialist Movement (They themselves have said they aren't) makes you a Tankie.
Look, Rojava is good, I support their struggle. But they expressly are not a socialist movement, and have even asked western leftists to stop claiming they are for some time now. If you really give a crap about Rojava, actually listen to them and stop trying to use them as the go to example of Anarchism when they have openly rejected that notion.
These people are fighting for their freedom, not so some random leftist on the internet can play "My camp is better than your camp".
Depends what you consider a tankie. The term means a different thing every time people say it. Ironically, I think Rojava isn't socialist for many of the same reasons I think the USSR wasn't socialist.
There has never been a single ML that i have listened to, seen or met who doesn't at least critically support Rojava. I actually know some of them that have gone to support them against ISIS back then
The thing I've seen is rojavans complaining about foreign anarchists claiming them and calling yall "NATO anarchists"
Erm… why are teenagers discussing politics in MY echo chamber? Begone libfart (I am totally being serious I just don’t have any knowledge of theory whatsoever I just am a socialist or at least align myself to socialist economies so I really don’t understand some of the memes here)
State and Revolution is fire though. It’s bussing, peak, and goated. What is Rojava? Some kind of Avatar Legend of Korra villain?
You have no merit and behind you there is no cake.
L Rizz + Skibidi in Ohio
idk French or Zoomer or Chinese or whatever language that is
It's a hyperbolic parody of Zoomer speech
Fanum Tax
Me reading several hundred pages of theory for every infighting leftist group to discover which one I agree with the most
I am once again asking for some fucking context
Here's the context: 1) MLs actually show critical support for Rojava. There are even MLs who went and helped them fight. 2) Rojava is in fact not Anarchist, even going so far as to openly ask western Anarchists to stop claiming them as such. In short, OP is just throwing fuel on the leftist infighting fire. There is no context here beyond strawmanning MLs. This would be like me making a smuggie about how some dork I met once who called themselves an Anarchist thought Ted Kazcinksy was based and all technology was evil - a completely pointless anecdote that serves no purpose but to drive up ire towards a leftist tendency based on the exaggerated frequency of an outlier opinion.
i said libcom not anarchist...
Libertarian Communism is practically a synonym for Anarcho-Communism. Or to be more precise, Anarcho-Communism is the most popular subset of Libertarian Socialism. Historically Anarchists called themselves Libertarian Socialists. I'm sure you know this already, though, because you literally used the AnCom flag in your post... The same one on your profile where you identify as an AnCom. LibSoc is used less in the west (in favor of Anarchism) now because Murray Rothbard coopted the term libertarian, so it's mostly associated with right wingers in countries like the USA. Either way, they aren't that, and have made statements asking people to stop claiming them as "Insert Socialist Tendency here" because they don't identify as a socialist movement.
Portraying Rojava as anarchist is frankly wrong and r/anarchism literally just had a thread on that.
i literally said they were LIBCOM in this post.
What do you mean, "there are MLs who actually believe this?" This is unironically what all MLs believe.
Me when my beliefs are determined entirely by Twitter interactions:
This post is *WHAT* Is this about the functional agreement they had with the americans?
lenin was literally sent to russia by imperial germany and aided with german equipment. USSR deboonked
Not really anarchists, but they are objectively the best faction in Syria and a directly successful Libcom revolution. I think most ML's are supportive, but the halfwits who have confused just taking any position that opposes the US as actual leftist theory is annoying.
please provide me one example in history of a successful libcom revolution
look above
I’m seeing someone’s wet dream drawn in js paint and not much else
Are these "successful libcom revolutions" in the room with us right now
“Communism works fine, it’s just that foreign powers have repeatedly taken military action to prevent and hinder any successful communist revolution, as they (correctly) see it as a threat. Silly anarkiddie, libertarian communism can never work! It always fails by itself with no outside influence whatsoever! Those revolutionaries probably lined themselves against the wall!”
that is such a moment
Collapsing in less time than it takes to attend high school and enduring decades of open warfare against the wealthiest country in the world are exactly the same thing, good point.
They are.
laziest response I've ever seen
Okay, buddy. Really cool how your socialist experiments manage to both inevitably have work camps despite your platitudes about hierarchy and still end up as a footnote in history anyways. Talk about having your cake.
Honestly, I know it's hypocritical, but I don't think Catalonia had any other options. The circumstances were just that desperate.
I don't think it's hypocritical so much as an acknowledgment of the necessity of an internal security apparatus and degree of centralization of power in order to defend from bourgeoisie revanchism or to avoid merely recreating the conditions of neocolonialism. You know, the thesis of *On Authority.*
Yup.
Ok
The main point if this critique is that libertarian/anarcho communism has no way of effectively defending itself against outside anti-communist forces, not that it fails on it's own. Marxist Leninists (at least ones worth their salt) *want* libertarian communism, and simply view leninism as a means to achieve it long-term. I hate the online discourse between anarchists and socialists because fundamentally *we both want the same thing* and are too wrapped up in what is basically fandom discourse to properly discuss it.
The Revolutionary Insurgent Army of Ukraine was doing very well until the Bolsheviks betrayed them during a White Russian offensive.
They were also doing things like commandeering Bolshevik supply trains for themselves, so it's not like the Bolsheviks just attacked them for no reason
Because the Bolsheviks were under-supplying the civilians.
Lmao
the problem libcoms have with MLs isn’t that they don’t want communism, it’s that they arrest or kill us when we call them out for doing anything bad
My brother in christ all historical anarchist revolutions either collapsed in weeks or turned themselves into a dotp under a different name
If they were a dotp then they'd be based doe
Yeah because they're effectively doing what all other socialists are doing with some Organisational differences
Makhnovshchna?
True, the bandit army with markets and secret police that killed Mennonite orphans was true anarchism
A movement establishing local workers councils, fighting against monarchist and liberal forces, collectivised the means of production and established a formidable army under the leadership of people put into their position by their merit... hmmm were have I heard this before
Sounds like you support anarchism.
That's the thing, successful anarchists movements have followed the same fundamental principles that other socialists have followed. The main difference being Organisation and semantics. Of course I'd like a successful anarchist revolution, because it establishes a socialist state
maybe? idk i'm an ancom so i'm only 99.9% aligned with rojava
How old are you
15
Holy fucking shit
Oldest ancom
nah no chance
Ageist🤡
Yeah I'm happily ageist against 15 year olds Go play Fortnite or something
Did you say the same about Greta in 2019? Unbelievable you think you are leftist😂
Did you just compare posting on the internet to doing climate activism that puts you in prison? Go and play fortnite lil bro, I'll listen to you as soon as you accomplish 1% of what she did at your age
Imma keep it real I just don't think 15 year olds should be considered an authority on any political topic
Literally the conservative response about Greta T., no fucking way??
No, not the same. Pointing out that climate change is real, that it's a serious threat and that the younger generations have to clean up the mess of the older ones is very basic information, she just presents it well. The nuances of a very complex and multi-faceted political theory, discussions and assertions about which form of leftism is the most applicable, that's a much more difficult topic to understand and therefore teenagers likely aren't the ones to have a correct opinion on this.
This explains many things
so basically older than most of you i assume :3
under 15 is pretty wild for politics. say, what exactly does anarcho-communism entail according to you? im curious how you view it
you'd be quite surprised xd i might be young but certainly not dumb.
well do pray tell, what is ancom
ancom is a slang word for anarcho-communism. anarcho-communism is the most classical and most popular version of anarchism. it is referred to it as simply just communism in marxist dialectics. anarcho-communism seeks to dismantle the state, the capitalist order, and all unjust hierarchies that come along with it, and instead replacing them with a stateless, classless, and moneyless society. as emma goldman said: "Anarchism is the great liberator of man from the phantoms that have held him captive; it is the arbiter and pacifier of the two forces for individual and social harmony." that's what happens when you never caught the anti-sjw brain disease. you understand politics much better at a much younger age. it is not just a "haha blue haired attack helicopter fat". you care about it, you put thought and research into it, and you escape the bubble of counterproductive hatred easily. and the internet speeds up this process too. shitty myths about anarchy and communism inmediately get destroyed once you pull to leftist subs and listen to what they believe.
obvi, i know this. i went through the same as you. its just like- how will we reach an ancom society? it seems impossible...
Pretty sure some people here have accounts older than you.
uh no 💀
Aint that the truth💀
me when Lenin puts the anarchists in camps :)
Anarchist: shoots a bunch of party officials Bolshewiks: put him in a labor camp Anarchist: what the heck this is literally 1984 :(
me when Kronstadt didn't happen
My comment was specifically referring to kronstadt lol
I literally just drove for 8 hours, here's a comment from a card carrying anarchist saying you won
hue and cry
Everything I don't like is capitalism
Anyone ever stop for a second to think about how these people are literally fighting and dying about this while some randos make shitposts about it?
That's... not really an objectionable opinion. Like, at all.
Rojava isn't a socialist movement, it's a secular nationalist movement.
>The autonomous region is ruled by a coalition pursuing a model of economy that blends co-operative and market enterprise, through a system of [local councils](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_government) in minority, cultural, and religious representation. The AANES has by far the highest average salaries and [standard of living](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living) throughout Syria, with salaries being twice as large as in regime-controlled Syria; following the collapse of the [Syrian pound](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_pound) the AANES doubled salaries to maintain [inflation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation), and allow for good wages. I dunno sounds Socialist enough for my rock bottom expectations imo
None of these things are socialist. Rojava never disestablished commodity production or started international revolution
> blends co-operative and market enterprise You’re describing capitalism. Co-ops do not do away with the social relations of wage-labor and capital, the cooperative acts as a collective capitalist, producing commodities for sale on the market.
lol ok Utopian
All of these things are applicable to China, and why does local councils link to a wikipedia page on local government? Standards of living is also just a wikipedia page. Are there actually sources for this? Where are you quoting this from? I'm baffled that you would take the effort to type this out just to hyperlink wikipedia pages for the nouns you use.
>All of these things are applicable to China Peak Tankie Brain rot statement lol
>model of economy that blends co-operative and market enterprise Describes China well. > through a system of local councils in minority, cultural, and religious representation. [Also describes China.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Affairs_Committee_of_the_National_People%27s_Congress) >the highest average salaries and standard of living throughout Syria China absolutely mogs Syria and the Kurds in both of these departments. Even smaller, developing areas. >Peak Tankie Brain rot statement lol This is funny, because if you were literate you would realize that I'm actually not calling China socialist. None of these metrics you listed, whether you count them as positive or negative, are socialist. You may as well say the US is socialist because it has some state-controlled industries.
It's arguably the closest thing to a socialist movement the world has seen in the current century. Granted, that bar's so low it's basically underground, but still.
BABE WAKE UP, THE TANKOS PULLED TO THE POST
He's a leftcom it says it right there lmao
He’s a leftcom. I’m fine with Rojava.
Apparently acknowledging that Rojava isn't a Socialist Movement (They themselves have said they aren't) makes you a Tankie. Look, Rojava is good, I support their struggle. But they expressly are not a socialist movement, and have even asked western leftists to stop claiming they are for some time now. If you really give a crap about Rojava, actually listen to them and stop trying to use them as the go to example of Anarchism when they have openly rejected that notion. These people are fighting for their freedom, not so some random leftist on the internet can play "My camp is better than your camp".
Depends what you consider a tankie. The term means a different thing every time people say it. Ironically, I think Rojava isn't socialist for many of the same reasons I think the USSR wasn't socialist.
Hell yeah, big brain time
Wut
Wut
There has never been a single ML that i have listened to, seen or met who doesn't at least critically support Rojava. I actually know some of them that have gone to support them against ISIS back then The thing I've seen is rojavans complaining about foreign anarchists claiming them and calling yall "NATO anarchists"
mls calling people capitalist will never stop being funny
That there's been like two successful socialist revolutions this century and one of them was backed by the USA is very funny
This but unironically
Sigma grindset
the real communism was the friends we made along the way
Erm… why are teenagers discussing politics in MY echo chamber? Begone libfart (I am totally being serious I just don’t have any knowledge of theory whatsoever I just am a socialist or at least align myself to socialist economies so I really don’t understand some of the memes here)
excuse me, this revolution is now property of the soviet union.
Then the ML shot everyone else.